08-07-2017, 07:48 AM
08-07-2017, 09:07 AM
Great question! It's a big one too, imo. The way that the mirror works is that it's reflecting to you what you aren't seeing in yourself, in the other self. For example, say you procrastinate a lot, but you aren't very aware of your procrastinating. Then you see another person at, say, the library who is scrolling through their phone and drinking coffee with his books and laptop open not studying. You then get judgmental and angry about it. Why are you angry? Why do you care? Because you don't see those qualities in yourself, you're not accepting of it. To one who is mindful, they might reflect back on why they got angry and realize that they are doing the same thing, prostrating work.
This is but one example. And this is why relationships are so valueble a teaching tool in third density. It gives us the opportunity to see that which we aren't seeing in ourselves. It is US who is seeing something particular in the mirror of another self. The other is not aware that they're reflecting back to you. So what are you seeing in one particular mirror? Another self may be reflecting another aspect. We can learn from this. I had a big breakthrough in the open heart when I realized that what I didn't like in my father was what I was not accepting of in myself.
So that is my take on the concept of mirroring.
This is but one example. And this is why relationships are so valueble a teaching tool in third density. It gives us the opportunity to see that which we aren't seeing in ourselves. It is US who is seeing something particular in the mirror of another self. The other is not aware that they're reflecting back to you. So what are you seeing in one particular mirror? Another self may be reflecting another aspect. We can learn from this. I had a big breakthrough in the open heart when I realized that what I didn't like in my father was what I was not accepting of in myself.
So that is my take on the concept of mirroring.
08-07-2017, 09:21 AM
Removed.
08-07-2017, 03:22 PM
Removed.
08-07-2017, 05:01 PM
(08-07-2017, 03:22 PM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]So if you get annoyed or angry by witnessing rape for example or child molestation, you're not being accepting of your own rapist aspect?
Quote:18.12 Questioner: You stated yesterday that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. I am assuming that balanced forgiveness for the full eradication of karma would require forgiveness not only of other-selves but forgiveness of self. Am I correct?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. We will briefly expand upon this understanding in order to clarify.
Forgiveness of other-self is forgiveness of self. An understanding of this insists upon full forgiveness upon the conscious level of self and other-self, for they are one. A full forgiveness is thus impossible without the inclusion of self.
Funnily enough my new signature I made this morning seems to relate to this while I didn't have time to read your thread. A bit reverted but under the same principle that self and other-self are one.
About three weeks ago I was speaking of oneness to someone from work and used rapists as an example. I said how could I be the judge of rapists when I contain no drive toward rape? How am I great to not rape when it is easy and natural not to from within my current configuration, and what do I know of the hardships of such deeds when they come from an obssessed drive one has no power over and which might have been repressed again and again and again, perhaps with the self finding itself disgusting each time just as hating itself, until it gets so strong the act is done? How do I know I wouldn't be as weak to face such drives and become as powerless to turn myself into a rapist also?
Under Oneness I know I can do no better and the mirror is mine own, then there is the work to find love for the weaknesses which allows this. How unwhole must one feel to do such deeds? Is it not also worthy of compassion?
08-07-2017, 06:34 PM
Removed.
08-08-2017, 09:39 AM
We contain all things. I still get angry and frustrated when I see injustice and deception in the world. And it has occurred to me that, "if I chose to, it would be incredibly easy to manipulate these people." But I am not service to self. I do not want to manipulate others, but I know that I have that within me. This is our power of choice. We have that incredible power, to choose. So I choose to use my learning for love and light, for service to all.
I don't fully understand the mirroring concept myself. I'm sure there's more to it than what I said. This is why these discussion are great because everyone can share their part and we can learn from each other. Thank you for sharing Minyatur!
I don't fully understand the mirroring concept myself. I'm sure there's more to it than what I said. This is why these discussion are great because everyone can share their part and we can learn from each other. Thank you for sharing Minyatur!
08-08-2017, 11:48 AM
The mirror is the manifestation of the act of "it is the way of distortion that in order to balance a distortion one must accentuate it. [104.2]" It's an analogue to the exercise Ra encourages to use, the intensify the feelings of each end of the dipole until you can resolve them.
When we see someone who makes us mad, for whatever reason, they are creating a caricature, an accentuation of a distortion we want balanced, so that we can understand it. The hard part is, we don't often consciously know what lessons we are trying to learn, so sometimes they aren't as obvious or direct as, that person is impatient, I'm mad at my own impatience. There are many layers to perceived failings of the self.
By intensifying the feelings of impatience, ignorance, hatred, during meditation, we are allowing these feelings their full expression. Anything short of that likely involves some sort of repression, and therefore redounds into further catalyst.
When we see someone who makes us mad, for whatever reason, they are creating a caricature, an accentuation of a distortion we want balanced, so that we can understand it. The hard part is, we don't often consciously know what lessons we are trying to learn, so sometimes they aren't as obvious or direct as, that person is impatient, I'm mad at my own impatience. There are many layers to perceived failings of the self.
By intensifying the feelings of impatience, ignorance, hatred, during meditation, we are allowing these feelings their full expression. Anything short of that likely involves some sort of repression, and therefore redounds into further catalyst.
08-08-2017, 12:45 PM
Jade, your contribution inspired a thought.
Throughout the material, Confederation sources state that energies that are not balanced within become manifest without. Disease is the most common example cited for this, but it occurs to me that all manifestation is a mirror of our thought and the resulting energy configuration.
The mirroring phenomenon is simply, as Jade stated, a way of balancing aspects of ourselves in a way that cannot simply be ignored. When we are balanced in a given aspect, such as the preceding example of patience, another's impatience does not really provoke an emotional response. It is only when we are imbalanced that the emotion registers. Thus those of Ra's remarks on balance, which I encourage you to review (42.2 through 42.4), where the emotional response is seen as not some handicap to be overcome so much as a reminder of something we have neglected to balance.
This is similar to the story where the Buddha is attacked, and all the weapons turn to flowers. As Pema Chödrön tells it, he realizes that things we regard as obstacles are actually helpful, in that they point directly to where we are stuck. We can treat our emotional responses to things we perceive as negative as gifts that show us exactly where we need balance. I've never read a more poetic illustration of catalyst!
To digress, I've been fascinated by this idea that our waking lives are not some external drama that runs alongside our inner thoughts. It's a very pregnant idea to consider one's day-to-day life as a continuation of the ongoing meditation on our inner desires, thoughts, and natures. There's something about the very concept of catalyst that exposes how life and experience really operate in the broadest possible context. It is almost as if manifest reality and waking life can be thought of as an "inflection point" in Creation, the nadir of the Creator's descent into separation, past which illusion simply cannot proceed further. Whatever thought patterns we entertain, their trajectory stops there and are reflected back to the Creator by the material illusion. Perhaps the experience of embodiment that so characterizes the illusion of separation is necessary precisely so we can occupy a position relative to that inflection? </digression>
Throughout the material, Confederation sources state that energies that are not balanced within become manifest without. Disease is the most common example cited for this, but it occurs to me that all manifestation is a mirror of our thought and the resulting energy configuration.
The mirroring phenomenon is simply, as Jade stated, a way of balancing aspects of ourselves in a way that cannot simply be ignored. When we are balanced in a given aspect, such as the preceding example of patience, another's impatience does not really provoke an emotional response. It is only when we are imbalanced that the emotion registers. Thus those of Ra's remarks on balance, which I encourage you to review (42.2 through 42.4), where the emotional response is seen as not some handicap to be overcome so much as a reminder of something we have neglected to balance.
This is similar to the story where the Buddha is attacked, and all the weapons turn to flowers. As Pema Chödrön tells it, he realizes that things we regard as obstacles are actually helpful, in that they point directly to where we are stuck. We can treat our emotional responses to things we perceive as negative as gifts that show us exactly where we need balance. I've never read a more poetic illustration of catalyst!
To digress, I've been fascinated by this idea that our waking lives are not some external drama that runs alongside our inner thoughts. It's a very pregnant idea to consider one's day-to-day life as a continuation of the ongoing meditation on our inner desires, thoughts, and natures. There's something about the very concept of catalyst that exposes how life and experience really operate in the broadest possible context. It is almost as if manifest reality and waking life can be thought of as an "inflection point" in Creation, the nadir of the Creator's descent into separation, past which illusion simply cannot proceed further. Whatever thought patterns we entertain, their trajectory stops there and are reflected back to the Creator by the material illusion. Perhaps the experience of embodiment that so characterizes the illusion of separation is necessary precisely so we can occupy a position relative to that inflection? </digression>
08-08-2017, 07:09 PM
Generally, other selves are mirrors are because they are you in a spiritual sense with a different "life story", except in this case the life story being the experiences from the beginning of the octave through the densities they've previously been a part of.
Specifically, in any given situation in real life, the other selves you come into contact with are mirrors because I find they often have catalytic characteristics or bring about catalytic situations that are relevant in a strong way to a distortion that you are attempting to learn/balance through. Basically, specifically speaking I've found other selves be like dreams - symbolic mirrors to your inner state, but they are symbolic and not always a direct message. Probably because of the veil and all.
You can see the specific mirror effect when you randomly attract people with a similar sort of situation or personality. I know it used to happen to me all the time when I was lacking in self-love, I'd attract people who also lack self-love, but of course it manifested it in many, many different ways. I judged myself harshly, appearance/body issues wise, and dove into a career to prove myself worthy. Some people I met felt necessary to prove themselves by attracting any and all social status and attention. Others felt it necessary to have many partners. Still others felt that all people around them were selfish because they projected their lack of self-love outward as extreme neediness. So the same inner lesson can manifest in completely different ways. Etc etc.
Specifically, in any given situation in real life, the other selves you come into contact with are mirrors because I find they often have catalytic characteristics or bring about catalytic situations that are relevant in a strong way to a distortion that you are attempting to learn/balance through. Basically, specifically speaking I've found other selves be like dreams - symbolic mirrors to your inner state, but they are symbolic and not always a direct message. Probably because of the veil and all.
You can see the specific mirror effect when you randomly attract people with a similar sort of situation or personality. I know it used to happen to me all the time when I was lacking in self-love, I'd attract people who also lack self-love, but of course it manifested it in many, many different ways. I judged myself harshly, appearance/body issues wise, and dove into a career to prove myself worthy. Some people I met felt necessary to prove themselves by attracting any and all social status and attention. Others felt it necessary to have many partners. Still others felt that all people around them were selfish because they projected their lack of self-love outward as extreme neediness. So the same inner lesson can manifest in completely different ways. Etc etc.
08-19-2017, 05:22 PM
Interactions with others are like tests and lessons at the same time. How can you know if you are patient/impatient for example? You need something or someone to irritate you and your responsiblity is how you respond. This catalyst is often unused by blaming our responses on others.
Some good analogies:
Some good analogies:
Quote:A grain of sand in the human eye first irritates, and if ignored leads to an infection. Were a person never to deal with the infection in the eye, there could be loss of vision. One could go blind. That same grain of sand in an oyster first irritates, then leads to concretion and morphs into a beautiful pearl. This raises the question: Did the speck of sand cause the results in the human eye and cause the results in the oyster? Or did the grain of sand reveal the inner properties of the eye and the inner properties of the oyster? In both instances the grain of sand is an irritant that reveals the inner properties of each. The sand did not cause the outcome, otherwise we would have to be concerned whether a pearl would pop out of our eye the next time sand got in it.
...
Similar to the sand analogy is one I like to share about a rose and a skunk. When a rose is crushed under one’s foot, it gives off a sweet aroma. But when the same kind of pressure is applied to a skunk, a much different odor can result. As I like to say, when the pressure is on, do you smell like a rose or a skunk?
Still another analogy. How does the sun melt the butter and harden the clay? Why does the sun not harden the butter and melt the clay? Because the sun is not the cause of the results. The sun reveals the inner properties of the butter and clay.
(Emerson Eggerichs: Love and Respect, My Response is My Responsibility)
08-21-2017, 10:38 AM
For me it is very simple....
for example if I go out and I am in a very bad mood, depressed and such, I will inevitably meet people who seem down too.
Whereas when I am radiantly happy I see that happiness around me also.
It is like the universe or those otherselves are mirroring my own inner state back at me.
for example if I go out and I am in a very bad mood, depressed and such, I will inevitably meet people who seem down too.
Whereas when I am radiantly happy I see that happiness around me also.
It is like the universe or those otherselves are mirroring my own inner state back at me.
10-08-2017, 04:35 PM
(08-07-2017, 05:01 PM)Elros Wrote: [ -> ](08-07-2017, 03:22 PM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]So if you get annoyed or angry by witnessing rape for example or child molestation, you're not being accepting of your own rapist aspect?
Quote:18.12 Questioner: You stated yesterday that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. I am assuming that balanced forgiveness for the full eradication of karma would require forgiveness not only of other-selves but forgiveness of self. Am I correct?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. We will briefly expand upon this understanding in order to clarify.
Forgiveness of other-self is forgiveness of self. An understanding of this insists upon full forgiveness upon the conscious level of self and other-self, for they are one. A full forgiveness is thus impossible without the inclusion of self.
Funnily enough my new signature I made this morning seems to relate to this while I didn't have time to read your thread. A bit reverted but under the same principle that self and other-self are one.
About three weeks ago I was speaking of oneness to someone from work and used rapists as an example. I said how could I be the judge of rapists when I contain no drive toward rape? How am I great to not rape when it is easy and natural not to from within my current configuration, and what do I know of the hardships of such deeds when they come from an obssessed drive one has no power over and which might have been repressed again and again and again, perhaps with the self finding itself disgusting each time just as hating itself, until it gets so strong the act is done? How do I know I wouldn't be as weak to face such drives and become as powerless to turn myself into a rapist also?
Under Oneness I know I can do no better and the mirror is mine own, then there is the work to find love for the weaknesses which allows this. How unwhole must one feel to do such deeds? Is it not also worthy of compassion?
Interesting perspective. I was never "raped" but I was messed with as a little kid by a man, maybe two. I never harbored judgement toward him, it likely would have been a different process if it was a violent act but even as a tiny kid I saw his unwholeness, the broken spot he was trying to fix. It did leave me feeling unclean, I faced the catalyst of self judgement and self abandonment really early.
My friend(parallel incarnation) a guy, was raped as a child, not violent again but alcohol was used and manipulation. He is angry,and disjointed emotionally still 30+ years later, the older man has now commit suicide so its even more obvious he was extremely troubled. I thought that would help him to stop the judgement and self judgement but it has done nothing. The wound persists.
One day last year he commented nearly in tears that with our connection(same energy so it calls you home) if we had been related he would have been "uncle touchy". Instead of that inspiring forgiveness in him (like I expected it to)it seemed to inspire further judgement, of self/other self.
Long story short, I think we all know rape, and child abuse is wrong to perpetrate and should be stopped but seeing it through the lens of compassion brings growth and healing, avoiding the mirror just deepens the judgement toward self and other self.
Its not that intolerance of the ACT is wrong just refusing to see what is behind the act is never going to lead to healing, or growth for anyone victim or perpetrator.
10-09-2017, 07:37 AM
An example of mirrors.
I hate selfish people.
Therefore I am selfish and hate myself.
I am greatly disturbed by torture and rape and murder.
Therefore I am greatly fascinated by torture, rape, and murder. I don't identify as being fascinated with these three things and yet I have an obsession with researching such things for artistic expression.
I hate violence.
Therefore I hate my own violence.
I judge people with many sexual partners.
Therefore I judge myself for not being with as many people sexually, this can also be called jealousy, and in extreme cases, envy.
I hate apathy and want to lead a worldwide genocide to eradicate it.
That statement alone shows how apathetic I am, and how my outward perceptions mirror my inward being, I am apathetic and do not accept this distortion, therein it reveals itself to me through my perceptions of others. They are my mirror through my own mind's perceptual filters.
Interestingly enough the mirror concept does not apply only to others.
If you ever listen to what you speak to another, you will find you speak more to yourself than anyone else.
Further, as for what others speak to you, you are their mirror, and so their words may accurately reflect yourself through them.
Aka you see yourself in others and then see them in you.
I love animals, other people get annoyed by my smothering their pets with love, this is them being annoyed at themselves for not doing the same (unless there's an actual valid reason like their dog sheds a pound of fur from my assault of pettings And it gets everywhere).
A person who hates babies might dislike their own infantile portions of their self.
A person who loves babies might have accepted their inner innocence.
These are bad examples in some ways as the complicated natures of personalities and life can be very confusing. Past experiences might make one a very distorted mirror, yet others may be crystalline mirrors of clarity.
It ultimately comes down to a fully totally subjective perception on the part of the observer. If you can recognize a pattern from your words and/or another's, it's noteworthy enough to consider paying attention to. As are your thoughts, actions, and the thoughts and actions of others.
The differences between us are illusions, but our unique identities are real.
It can be a very confusing world of mirrors. It's easy to get lost. It's helpful to 'know thyself' so that you can spot your mirrored parts more clearly.
I hate selfish people.
Therefore I am selfish and hate myself.
I am greatly disturbed by torture and rape and murder.
Therefore I am greatly fascinated by torture, rape, and murder. I don't identify as being fascinated with these three things and yet I have an obsession with researching such things for artistic expression.
I hate violence.
Therefore I hate my own violence.
I judge people with many sexual partners.
Therefore I judge myself for not being with as many people sexually, this can also be called jealousy, and in extreme cases, envy.
I hate apathy and want to lead a worldwide genocide to eradicate it.
That statement alone shows how apathetic I am, and how my outward perceptions mirror my inward being, I am apathetic and do not accept this distortion, therein it reveals itself to me through my perceptions of others. They are my mirror through my own mind's perceptual filters.
Interestingly enough the mirror concept does not apply only to others.
If you ever listen to what you speak to another, you will find you speak more to yourself than anyone else.
Further, as for what others speak to you, you are their mirror, and so their words may accurately reflect yourself through them.
Aka you see yourself in others and then see them in you.
I love animals, other people get annoyed by my smothering their pets with love, this is them being annoyed at themselves for not doing the same (unless there's an actual valid reason like their dog sheds a pound of fur from my assault of pettings And it gets everywhere).
A person who hates babies might dislike their own infantile portions of their self.
A person who loves babies might have accepted their inner innocence.
These are bad examples in some ways as the complicated natures of personalities and life can be very confusing. Past experiences might make one a very distorted mirror, yet others may be crystalline mirrors of clarity.
It ultimately comes down to a fully totally subjective perception on the part of the observer. If you can recognize a pattern from your words and/or another's, it's noteworthy enough to consider paying attention to. As are your thoughts, actions, and the thoughts and actions of others.
The differences between us are illusions, but our unique identities are real.
It can be a very confusing world of mirrors. It's easy to get lost. It's helpful to 'know thyself' so that you can spot your mirrored parts more clearly.
10-09-2017, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't say our identities are real. I would maybe use the word individualities as that reflect more the nature of our seperate self than what we temporarily identify with pur minds. Identity reflects more the internal dialogue we have with ourselves, therefore it is closer to what we call ego. It is just as illusory as can be.
However you paint a very good description of the concept. I was wanting to use similar descriptions for this thread but forgot about this thread. I would add that it is also possible to measure your level of acceptance of something based on how close or distant you feel about it. For exemple someone might be acceptant of a certain kind of people but still have difficulty interacting with them or knowing what to say to them. This reflect the relationship with the same part of the self. Your analogy with babies and innocense would apply very well.
However you paint a very good description of the concept. I was wanting to use similar descriptions for this thread but forgot about this thread. I would add that it is also possible to measure your level of acceptance of something based on how close or distant you feel about it. For exemple someone might be acceptant of a certain kind of people but still have difficulty interacting with them or knowing what to say to them. This reflect the relationship with the same part of the self. Your analogy with babies and innocense would apply very well.
10-09-2017, 12:57 PM
I approach this concept a little differently from most. Usually people think of it as a one to one thing, where each individual is a mirror and reflecting off eachother which of course is a perfectly valid way to view it. However, for me, I see it that the whole of reality is the mirror, not just individual people, and I am so a mirror in return for the whole reality, not just individuals. In certain traditions there is the idea that reality projects like a sort of hologram and the 'inner side' of the aura which is like the 'screen' has been called the Magic Mirror of the Universe, Thus, when it is said that people are mirrors it means that each is a perfect reflection or mirror for the whole universe, not just people to eachother. Thus to 'clean your mirror' has nothing to do with how you perceive others but rather seeing yourself in the Magic Mirror of the Universe. It just so happens that as you do this, you begin to see others in a new light.
Also I'd like to add this tidbit for thought:
http://www.sria.org/on-the-general-guida...-the-soul/
Also I'd like to add this tidbit for thought:
http://www.sria.org/on-the-general-guida...-the-soul/
Quote:Be not hasty to condemn others’ sin. How knowest thou that in their place, thou couldst have resisted the temptation, and even were it so, why shouldst thou despise one whom thou thinkest weaker than thyself. Be thou well sure of this, that in slander and self-righteousness there is sin. The MASTER condemned not the adulterous woman, but he did not either encourage continuance of the sin. Thou, therefore, who desirest magical gifts, let thy Soul be firm and steadfast; for it is by flattering thy weakness, that the evil one will gain power over thee. Humble thyself before thy God, yet fear neither evil man nor evil spirit. Fear is failure, and the forerunner of failure, and courage is the beginning of virtue. Therefore fear not the evil spirits, but be firm and courteous with them, for thou hast not right either to despise or to revile them, and this too may lead thee into sin.
Command and banish the evil ones. Curse them by the great Names of God if need be, but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be led into error. A man is what he maketh himself within the limits set by his inherited destiny; he is a part of mankind, his actions affect not himself only but also those with whom he is brought into contact, either for good or for evil. How much more is it so with the Adept.
10-09-2017, 01:13 PM
Indeed there is a microscopic mirror and a macroscopic mirror. Each densities/subdensities/chakras can be seen as a reflection of both the self as individual and self as the one self (logos). The mirror is truely not unidimensional but multidimensional. Each thought, each action, each manifestation is inevitably a reflection of both the little self and the grand self. The idea that everything is illusion reflects upon that very concept, that this place is not a physical place but a spiritual place, one where everything reflects on everything else. Internal and external energies are therefore united.
10-19-2017, 10:44 AM
(08-07-2017, 09:07 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]Great question! It's a big one too, imo. The way that the mirror works is that it's reflecting to you what you aren't seeing in yourself, in the other self. For example, say you procrastinate a lot, but you aren't very aware of your procrastinating. Then you see another person at, say, the library who is scrolling through their phone and drinking coffee with his books and laptop open not studying. You then get judgmental and angry about it. Why are you angry? Why do you care? Because you don't see those qualities in yourself, you're not accepting of it. To one who is mindful, they might reflect back on why they got angry and realize that they are doing the same thing, prostrating work.
This is but one example. And this is why relationships are so valueble a teaching tool in third density. It gives us the opportunity to see that which we aren't seeing in ourselves. It is US who is seeing something particular in the mirror of another self. The other is not aware that they're reflecting back to you. So what are you seeing in one particular mirror? Another self may be reflecting another aspect. We can learn from this. I had a big breakthrough in the open heart when I realized that what I didn't like in my father was what I was not accepting of in myself.
So that is my take on the concept of mirroring.
What a wonderful and wise way of explaining it. That Sir. has helped me a lot. In the instant I just read it. Thank you.