I am newly initiated to TLOO, and have been devouring the material since I came across the books. I about 90% through book 1, and 70% through Carla's book "Living the Law of One" - so you know how much I know.
I find that so much of the material - particularly the entire chakra doctrine - is something that is deeply embedded in Indian culture, and something that the yogis have practised for eons. The chakra philosophy also pervades Indian classical music as well as yoga, if not any other aspects that I maybe unaware of. I find it surprising that Ra doesn't mention this, or make any reference to how this material found its way to ancient Indian culture, and if there was an Confederation communication with entities in India. I maybe wrong, in that this maybe referred to in material I haven't yet come across, but I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts or insights on this.
Apart from the chakra theory, several other aspects of TLOO are so entrenched in Indian culture; as an Indian reader, I am quite at home with the concept of reincarnation, karma, densities. A book I recently read (and that is also somewhat of a spiritual bestseller worldwide), `Autobiography of a Yogi' describes in detail Yogananda's meeting with his Guru after his passing, and the Guru's detailed explanation of life after death, and the mechanics of the astral world and beyond. So much of it resonates with what Ra talks of. I find it difficult to believe that there was no communication with entities in India with the Confederation.
I hope my post is not misconstrued as undue jingoism. It's something that's been on my mind since I came across the material, and was keen to check in with the community.
Thank you for reading!
Among the many topics unexplored in Don's questioning of Ra, the history of the Vedas and exploration of the Hindu worldview are two of them I wish had been on his radar.
The subject went unexplored simply because the questioner didn't ask questions on that subject. Just like he unfortunately didn't inquire about the Buddha.
There are however some oblique references to your culture's history, including:
Quote:47.8 The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.
Along with discussion of
sanskrit and brief mention of
tantra.
There are a couple/few Indian members in the forums, including Confused, who may be able to offer more insight.
Would love to hear any of correlations you find between this philosophy and Hinduism. I'm slowly reading a book right now on pranayama and I am blown away by the way it describes the energy centers, movement of prana, the three primary channels (ida, pingala, and sushumna) in sometimes almost identical terms to Ra's description.
And welcome!
Ra is pretty tight-lipped unless asked a direct question, so it's no great surprise to me. I don't recall any question about whether there were systems that currently understand or use the energy centers. Could be wrong though.
(08-27-2017, 01:57 PM)Steppingfeet Wrote: [ -> ]Among the many topics unexplored in Don's questioning of Ra, the history of the Vedas and exploration of the Hindu worldview are two of them I wish had been on his radar.
The subject went unexplored simply because the questioner didn't ask questions on that subject. Just like he unfortunately didn't inquire about the Buddha.
There are however some oblique references to your culture's history, including:
Quote:47.8 The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.
Along with discussion of sanskrit and brief mention of tantra.
There are a couple/few Indian members in the forums, including Confused, who may be able to offer more insight.
Would love to hear any of correlations you find between this philosophy and Hinduism. I'm slowly reading a book right now on pranayama and I am blown away by the way it describes the energy centers, movement of prana, the three primary channels (ida, pingala, and sushumna) in sometimes almost identical terms to Ra's description.
And welcome!
Thank you, SteppingFeet. Honestly, I am comforted by the resonance I experience with TLOO material. It reconfirms for me what I have rejected of my culture through my tussle with skepticism. And despite, as an Indian, having had such access to kundalini yoga, chakras and pretty much the entire spectrum of Hindusim, it is with Carla's book that I have been penetrated so deeply with insights on the chakra system. I am grateful to Ra and to L/L. And to repeat, I am comforted by the universality of this, of finding all this knowledge (much of which I have known - even if rejected or been skeptical - since childhood) coming back in another form with such stark resonance. It makes me return to my cultural heritage too in many ways, like I started practising yoga and focusing my classical music practice for chakra healing.
[quote='chamkigirl' pid='232548' dateline='1503857208']
[quote='Steppingfeet' pid='232543' dateline='1503856679']
Along with discussion of
sanskrit and brief mention of
tantra.
And thank you for these links to the Sanskrit and tantric yoga references. Really interesting!
(08-27-2017, 01:36 PM)chamkigirl Wrote: [ -> ] A book I recently read (and that is also somewhat of a spiritual bestseller worldwide), `Autobiography of a Yogi' describes in detail Yogananda's meeting with his Guru after his passing, and the Guru's detailed explanation of life after death, and the mechanics of the astral world and beyond. So much of it resonates with what Ra talks of.
Yes, and it is also resonant with the work of Robert Monroe (Chamkigirl, if you haven't read Robert Monroe's books yet, you might with to add them to your reading list). At the 2016 Homecoming I talked informally about this (chapter 43 of Autobiography of a Yogi) and tried to get people interested in reading it. As far as I know only one person took my advice, although of course some people had already read the book.
I love that book.
Illusory nature of experiential reality (maya) is also something known in Indian thought.
Also, the fact that Atman (the individual soul) is identical with Brahman (the Creator) - that is right at the center of the Law of One. Very important.
I recommend reading Tantra Illuminated by Christopher D. Wallis for a good introduction and resource for Nondualistic Tantric Shaivism. I've found it to be the most congruent spiritual system of knowledge and practice so far.
edit..misread your post. Welcome chamkigirl
Well, even if Don didn't ask direct questions about India, Ra is actually talking about the chakra system which is ingrained in yoga and Indian esotericism, and yet there isn't a reference. I have to say, I find that odd. Or do correct me, if there is a reference that I might have missed.
I wonder if Ra only made references to cultures and ideas that may have been familiar to the L/L Research group, his communicators.
Any thoughts?
Here is a list of Ra's uses of the specific word "chakra" in the material.
It's only speculation on my part, but my suspicion is that those of Ra wanted to dispense with any cultural or religious baggage accompanying the concept of the chakra, since Don was asking questions where the chakras are fundamental. "Energy center", to be honest, fits right in with Ra's often overly technical language. It also takes a single word and increases it to two words, which as you know, anytime Ra has a choice between saying something the long way and saying it the short way, they pick the former.
(08-30-2017, 03:01 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Here is a list of Ra's uses of the specific word "chakra" in the material.
It's only speculation on my part, but my suspicion is that those of Ra wanted to dispense with any cultural or religious baggage accompanying the concept of the chakra, since Don was asking questions where the chakras are fundamental. "Energy center", to be honest, fits right in with Ra's often overly technical language. It also takes a single word and increases it to two words, which as you know, anytime Ra has a choice between saying something the long way and saying it the short way, they pick the former.
I hear you, but he still does refer to Christ, the Pyramids, South America, and probably a lot more that I haven't come across yet.
And energy centre or `chakra' - that's terminology and semantics. Conceptually, the system or chakras/energy centres has been part of Indian culture for eons. My question is not about "recognising" this or "giving cultural credit" as it were. I wonder that there was no communication with Indian entities, considering this is a culture that has been steeped in esoteric philosophy, pretty much as second nature. The Mahabharat, which is the grand Hindu epic dating back to 3000BC or further back, makes so many references to advanced technology, including aeroplanes, atomic bonds, physical materialisation and even
aliens! At a very basic level, how did India receive all this "knowledge"? Is it possible that there was communication with the Confederation, but Ra hasn't made any reference to it? If that is so, then, rather than questioning
why Ra hasn't made any reference (as I understand he may have thought it would be unfamiliar to the L/L group, and may not serve the purpose and intent of their communication), I would like to know if anyone knows of other communications with instruments/channels who might be aware of any contact with India?
Thank you.
Hello there, CG, and welcome to the melee here. Glad to hear that the LOO is becoming absorbed into your system. You may find it within the literature many shards of beauty and wisdom which might lead you down curious pathways of inner exploration.
Reflexions of Indic spiritual constructs are ubiquitous in the Ra Material. One could arbitrarily begin with the contrast of the Devas with the Asuras. The latter offer endless examples of how being very good at being bad, perhaps through tapas (austerities) or valor, etc., can, indeed, gain one spiritual power.
Another arbitrary example is the bhaktas having a disposition whereby they seek union with Divinity through devotion as compared to the Jnanas who seek a more wisdom based union. LOO offers interesting insight into these in terms of what it calls the 4th & 5th densities. Then the Raja Yoga path is supposed to balance these somehow, and this would correspond to 6d learning.
Turning to your question--with the understanding that this is purely inspired speculation on my part--I would guess that the contacts made by higher density groups with those in the area east of the Indus were of a different character than those made by groups like Ra. Ra states that their interest here was to respond to the deep sorrow expressed by those who called for help due to their suffering. My feeling is that many of those who worked with adepts in regions proximate to the Himalayan Plateau were responding not to suffering, but to disciplined spiritual seeking. Thus the nature of the relationship between higher and lower density beings would be rather different and beyond Ra's scope of immediate concern.
But speculation aside, the ultimate question is this: what are you, inside? All of these concepts and glimpses of patterns of energy expenditure amount to a candy store full of potential avenues of exploration. Please let us know if you discover anything worthy of note.
It is my belief that the Ra contact was simply contact with the subconscious mind of every individual on the earth, creating a super-conscious kind of awareness. In this scenario, they would of course have access to potentially unlimited information.
As far as the chakras go, I find the Ra channeling to have a much more grounded interpretation of them. I look at traditional information, and they are all very nebulous.
(09-01-2017, 12:55 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Another arbitrary example is the bhaktas having a disposition whereby they seek union with Divinity through devotion as compared to the Jnanas who seek a more wisdom based union. LOO offers interesting insight into these in terms of what it calls the 4th & 5th densities. Then the Raja Yoga path is supposed to balance these somehow, and this would correspond to 6d learning.
It may be interesting to note that Indian mystic Ramakrishna recommended
bhakti yoga as the most preferable in this age (Kaliyuga) although one can not completely separate different yogas: "In the Kaliyuga, the best way is Bhakti yoga, the path of devotion - singing the praises of the Lord, and prayer. The path of devotion alone is the religion for this age."
Ra also said something similar: "The purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love." and "Understanding is not of this density." The difference I see is that Ra doesn't see obstacles for spiritual growth in marriage and family life. Right the opposite - there are many opportunities and advantages.
(09-02-2017, 05:36 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017, 12:55 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Another arbitrary example is the bhaktas having a disposition whereby they seek union with Divinity through devotion as compared to the Jnanas who seek a more wisdom based union. LOO offers interesting insight into these in terms of what it calls the 4th & 5th densities. Then the Raja Yoga path is supposed to balance these somehow, and this would correspond to 6d learning.
It may be interesting to note that Indian mystic Ramakrishna recommended bhakti yoga as the most preferable in this age (Kaliyuga) although one can not completely separate different yogas: "In the Kaliyuga, the best way is Bhakti yoga, the path of devotion - singing the praises of the Lord, and prayer. The path of devotion alone is the religion for this age."
Ra also said something similar: "The purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love." and "Understanding is not of this density." The difference I see is that Ra doesn't see obstacles for spiritual growth in marriage and family life. Right the opposite - there are many opportunities and advantages.
Those are very different statements - bhakti yoga having to do with devotion to God and attaining moksha (liberation - the highest spiritual goal in Hinduism) by God's grace - as opposed to any personal effort aimed at changing oneself.
Ra's message is quite in contrast to that, clearly specifying the need to become a balanced personality focused at least 51% on caring about others' needs. The closest Hindu path would be karma yoga -- the path of works -- but even here it doesn't quite capture that *who you are* (personality configuration) matters much more than *what you do*, since it's possible to do all kinds of "good works" without love and even with resentment.
(09-02-2017, 05:36 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2017, 12:55 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Another arbitrary example is the bhaktas having a disposition whereby they seek union with Divinity through devotion as compared to the Jnanas who seek a more wisdom based union. LOO offers interesting insight into these in terms of what it calls the 4th & 5th densities. Then the Raja Yoga path is supposed to balance these somehow, and this would correspond to 6d learning.
It may be interesting to note that Indian mystic Ramakrishna recommended bhakti yoga as the most preferable in this age (Kaliyuga) although one can not completely separate different yogas: "In the Kaliyuga, the best way is Bhakti yoga, the path of devotion - singing the praises of the Lord, and prayer. The path of devotion alone is the religion for this age."
Ra also said something similar: "The purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love." and "Understanding is not of this density." The difference I see is that Ra doesn't see obstacles for spiritual growth in marriage and family life. Right the opposite - there are many opportunities and advantages.
In my opinion, Q'uo is coming from the "Bhakti yoga" perspective as well. They speak of developing faith in the rightness of all that is, of the present moment, that all is well and all shall be well. Technically, we only have to open our hearts in 51% STO to harvest out of 3D. As spiritual seekers, we want to go further. But I totally agree, devotion and faith is the more appropriate path in our times for the great majority. It's kind of difficult to leave the ordinary life to go live in solitude. Relationships give the intensity of catalyst that is so helpful during these end times. It may not be fun, it may be challenging and frustrating (I know it can be for me), but we can learn so much and grow and expand and become who we truly are.
The "doing" is informed by the "being". So I think it's important to know who you are, Stranger is indeed correct! It's possible to do many good works without those actions being informed by the open heart, with love.
(09-02-2017, 05:36 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]It may be interesting to note that Indian mystic Ramakrishna recommended bhakti yoga as the most preferable in this age (Kaliyuga) although one can not completely separate different yogas: "In the Kaliyuga, the best way is Bhakti yoga, the path of devotion - singing the praises of the Lord, and prayer. The path of devotion alone is the religion for this age."
Ra also said something similar: "The purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love." and "Understanding is not of this density." The difference I see is that Ra doesn't see obstacles for spiritual growth in marriage and family life. Right the opposite - there are many opportunities and advantages.
Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said that, but he said it to Indians in India about Indians. Sri Ramakrishna liked to point out that a mother will cook differently for one of her children than for another, according to what they will eat and what they prefer. Likewise, he advocated that a person should find the path to Divinity which suits them. When his primary disciple, Swami Vivekannda, brought Sri Ramakrishna's message to American 19th Century fundamentalists and free thinkers, he did not advocate bhakti yoga, per se. Rather than instituting Kali pujas, the Vedanta Society he set up--while it does have some degree of devotional singing and other ceremony--is largely a presentation of philosophy, not worship.
By saying this, I'm not trying to argue with you, just present a broader picture because, all that said, there is a common belief that in these days when it is so hard for most people to sit down and concentrate, devotional practices may come more easily than a meditation practice--for most of us.
As to Ra's perspective, one aspect of it is that here there is no wholly unveiled knowing of Truth Absolute, but there is the capacity to "know the Creator" through silent meditation. This is very often promoted by Q'uo and Ra....for some reason.........?
(09-03-2017, 08:10 AM)Stranger Wrote: [ -> ]Those are very different statements - bhakti yoga having to do with devotion to God and attaining moksha (liberation - the highest spiritual goal in Hinduism) by God's grace - as opposed to any personal effort aimed at changing oneself.
Ra's message is quite in contrast to that, clearly specifying the need to become a balanced personality focused at least 51% on caring about others' needs. The closest Hindu path would be karma yoga -- the path of works -- but even here it doesn't quite capture that *who you are* (personality configuration) matters much more than *what you do*, since it's possible to do all kinds of "good works" without love and even with resentment.
STO is service to Creator (consciously or unconsciously). This is also known in the teachings of Jesus. This may be different than usual bhakti but the goal is also union with the Creator.
"A holy man is one whose mind, heart, and soul are merged in God /.../ And knowing that God is present in all existence, he serves Him."
"To love only your compatriots is maya. To love people of all countries, to love followers of all religions, comes from love of God, from compassion."
(Ramakrishna)
(09-04-2017, 02:23 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2017, 05:36 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]/.../ "In the Kaliyuga, the best way is Bhakti yoga, the path of devotion /.../
Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said that, but he said it to Indians in India about Indians. Sri Ramakrishna liked to point out that a mother will cook differently for one of her children than for another, according to what they will eat and what they prefer. Likewise, he advocated that a person should find the path to Divinity which suits them /.../
Yes, that was said only generally but I think it also holds for people outside India. "In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego."
"In this state of mind it is not proper for him to say, 'I am He.' When a man does all sorts of worldly things, he should not say, 'I am Brahman.' Those who cannot give up attachment to worldly things, and who find no means to shake off the feeling of 'I', should rather cherish the idea 'I am God's servant; I am His devotee.' One can also realize God by following the path of devotion."
(09-05-2017, 05:09 AM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]STO is service to Creator (consciously or unconsciously). This is also known in the teachings of Jesus. This may be different than usual bhakti but the goal is also union with the Creator.
"A holy man is one whose mind, heart, and soul are merged in God /.../ And knowing that God is present in all existence, he serves Him."
"To love only your compatriots is maya. To love people of all countries, to love followers of all religions, comes from love of God, from compassion."
(Ramakrishna)
STS is also service to the Creator, so that cannot be a definition used to differentiate STO and STS.
STO is caring about all other-selves, and helping them when the opportunity arises - karma yoga seems the clearest equivalent.
Bhakti can be a problematic concept, because in India as elsewhere it is not uncommon to have people focus their devotion on a person rather than the One who is in *everyone*; in fact that is how cults operate - by narrowing the focus of devotion to the cult leader.
Another problematic form of bhakti is devotion not to a person but to a deity, *but* for the purpose of benefitting one's life circumstances, and negating the equal divinity or value of other people. When people make offerings to Lakshmi as a down-payment for their own prosperity, or worship Kali to help them defeat their enemies - that is all genuine bhakti, but a serious distortion away from STO.
At its silliest, bhakti is begging God to save oneself while doing nothing toward self-transformation - e.g., Pure Land Buddhism
Quote:The essential practice in Pure Land Buddhism is the chanting of the name of Amitabha Buddha with total concentration, trusting that one will be reborn in the Pure Land, a place where it is much easier for a being to work towards enlightenment.
Yes, you can say that a bhakti approach to Divine realization can be problematic, but so are the others. There's an age-old association with serious seeking and mental illness, for example, because one can easily go too far too fast into one's fearful unconscious and do real damage there.
Some people simply operate more clearly on a feeling level than on any other and, yes, when led astray by a false guru, may feel profoundly betrayed. But this is the type of catalyst they are seeking--presumably.
Finally, working that way can be far more efficient than it appears.
Quote:The essential practice in Pure Land Buddhism is the chanting of the name of Amitabha Buddha with total concentration, trusting that one will be reborn in the Pure Land, a place where it is much easier for a being to work towards enlightenment.
Amitabha Buddha is a very clean vibration (by my standards) and if one can attune oneself to it, the benefits are not inconsequential. By focusing the mind on "All is impermanent, all is without self" one comes around to Ra's suggestion of seeing self in the other. In this case it's a modification: seeing no-self in all (simply a play of Intelligent Infinity), therefore perfect unity.
After reading the Ra Material and saying, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense," one's being is not greatly distorted by such a casual observation, I would aver. But a deep heartfelt practice of vibrating a sense of oneness will stand one in good stead when one is asked to ascend the fateful steps of light to determine which density it will move to next.
All that said, this is not my primary modality, however, I find it very useful to go to sacred places and surrender to the vibrations there I identify as resonant with my path. Learning-by-surrendering-to-the-vibration is a useful tool, indeed. Bhakti may not be as silly as it first appears to a being of a contrasting persuasion.