Bring4th

About a week ago I decided to use one of my websites to present some material for Advanced Wanderers. The Home Page is up and about a yard long, and the material seems to be coming together well:

http://vitency.com/

However, I thought it would be useful to get some input at this early stage to decide how best to present a complex series of topics and issues.

I'm not expecting much traffic: the content is way outside what would interest most people. I've been keeping an occasional eye on Bring4th for a number of years, and since it's the only site I know of on which the topic of Wanderers is openly discussed, I invite any Members so interested to drop by my site and, if you want, comment on it, either by email or with a reply here. Again, it will probably be of interest to only a few here, but since I've not seen similar material anywhere else on the 'Net, they may find it useful.

Vitency, thanks for sharing your resource. I think the information there can be helpful, but the tone comes across as quite negative. It's understandable since there is a lot out there to be negative about - including all the things mentioned on your site - but it doesn't help; if people leave your site feeling more hopeless, overwhelmed and downtrodden than they did before, it just serves to feed those who consume such energies, no?

Presenting people with serious problems without any opportunity to do anything about them is the main trick of the mainstream news media, and it is a psychologically toxic one.

In other words, what's missing for me is some equivalent to Quo's 'remember, friends, that all is One and ultimately all is well'.

Thanks for your reply. First up, I warned that the site is UNDER CONSTRUCTION - there is a good deal more to come.

Second, yes, there is a great deal to 'be negative about' if that is what you want to do. I also warned that it is for ADVANCED Wanderers who do not view these things as negative, merely as the undesirable aspects of a process that is, like human death, an inevitable part of a cyclic process. A good comparison is with typical funeral proceedings in Western and primitive societies - the wailing and grief and 'beating of breasts' - versus those in e.g. Buddhist societies where, although there is sadness at the loss of a loved one, the knowledge that they've moved on to the next phase of their development generates strong positive emotions. In other words, between selfish indulgence in negative  personal feelings versus generous sympathy for another's transition.

Third, it's not possible to understand the positive aspects of what's happening without first understanding both the causes of the predominantly negative environment, and how to deal with them.

Fourth, the positive aspects are only available to those who, having understood the negative, are thereby able to free themselves from them and get on with the work they are about.

Fifth, explaining the negative takes time and detail on the part of the presenter, and INTELLIGENT DISPASSIONATE PATIENCE on the part of the listener.

Sixth, those who continually need reassurances from external sources in order to consider difficult issues are not yet prepared to address them.

And last, if you view yourself as being "without any opportunity to do anything about them", then - if you'll permit me to say so - you've not yet achieved the inner independence needed to make use of what I'm presenting.

I'm grateful for your comments, since they've confirmed my decision to put everything except a brief intro behind a login wall once the Home Page is complete. I have no desire again to be accused of engaging in 'psychological toxicity'.

Best wishes.

Thanks for sharing that, I had more time today to look at your site and will definitely go back as you get further along.

Thanks for your encouragement. A quick preview in order to return the kindness. I'll soon get around to explaining that, sooner or later, responsible Wanderers will need to give thought to leaving a dying Earth, transporting the "seeds" they've so painstakingly garnered, and sowing them in healthier soil on a different planet.

Those "seeds", of course, are whatever of value you've accumulated psychically. "You can't take it with you" certainly applies to the physical, but not to the psychic if your psychic body can withstand an interstellar transition. The physical bodies here obviously cannot: the bones immediately start dissolving when removed from a gravitational field: any astronaut who's spent more than a few weeks in orbit will suffer from life-long osteoporosis thereafter.

The options are limited. You might be able to "hitch a ride" with an ET race, but I know of none I'd trust that far at present. Briefly explaining the other options is the main purpose of the initial screed, which demands at least some setting of the scene to do.

(09-03-2017, 05:24 PM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for your encouragement. A quick preview in order to return the kindness. I'll soon get around to explaining that, sooner or later, responsible Wanderers will need to give thought to leaving a dying Earth, transporting the "seeds" they've so painstakingly garnered, and sowing them in healthier soil on a different planet.

Those "seeds", of course, are whatever of value you've accumulated psychically. "You can't take it with you" certainly applies to the physical, but not to the psychic if your psychic body can withstand an interstellar transition. The physical bodies here obviously cannot: the bones immediately start dissolving when removed from a gravitational field: any astronaut who's spent more than a few weeks in orbit will suffer from life-long osteoporosis thereafter.

The options are limited. You might be able to "hitch a ride" with an ET race, but I know of none I'd trust that far at present. Briefly explaining the other options is the main purpose of the initial screed, which demands at least some setting of the scene to do.

A couple things:

What is your opinion of this post, which maintains that to leave Earth is a very, very bad move? I don't see a reason to leave Earth, ever (though I don't necessarily agree with all of what Hohongwitutiwa says) - what about all Ra said about how Earth is inevitably going to be a fourth density positive planet? Why would we need to leave Earth if, in at most the next half millennium, all living entities will be completely adapted to fourth density conditions?

And you don't trust any of the known ET races?? Well for one, I haven't heard of a single positive ET race recommending that we leave Earth to go live somewhere else. I don't know many, though. One thing Q'uo said, that I believe, is that once the majority of the population is awake, all of the damage to Earth's physical body can be reversed. Including reviving extinct species.

I don't think the solution is to run away from a dying Earth. Besides, only your physical body can die. So what's the problem?

> Ra said about how Earth is inevitably going to be a fourth density positive planet

I'll start with this, since I regard it as fundamental to what follows. Yes, true, a 4th D society will most likely remain.

> I don't see a reason to leave Earth

Then don't, by all means; but then you're an Earthling. I am not. I came here with specific interests and a specific purpose. My main interest is in the technologies that evolve at the close of 3rd D, and can be used for the initial stages of interstellar travel in 4th D. Along with this also the social influences that prompted such developments, including especially music.

My own Initiation was in a very harmonious STO race that moved quickly to PSYCHOphysical technologies rather than the very materialist science and technology that have emerged here - and with amazing rapidity as these things go - so I've studied your "atomic physics" (although there's little physical about it: most of it is mathematical analogues). Your electronics was "planted" here by another race for its own purposes, and has raced ahead so fast that almost none of you understand it: instead, you're mezmerized by and addicted to it. When microprocessors first appeared I was amazed, not just at the technical potential, but at the social potential which I saw lasting several centuries. Instead, you've raced to near-completion in a couple of decades without understanding how to use them properly. The state of your planet is proof enough of that.

> I haven't heard of a single positive ET race recommending that we leave Earth to go live somewhere else.

I'm not the least bit interested in what other ET races - positive or negative - "recommend". I make my own decisions. You can obey whomever you like.

> all of the damage to Earth's physical body can be reversed. Including reviving extinct species.

Best of luck, and sincerely. However, I've got what I need and have no plans to hang about to see if it happens.

> I don't think the solution is to run away from a dying Earth.

Then don't. I'm NOT "running away". I'm just doing the job I came here to do; and frankly, it's none of your business. And as to the Hopi tradition, I'm not a Hopi, I have no interest in becoming a Hopi, and I'm sure they have no interest in me.

Please, TRY to understand, everyone else is NOT like you. You have NO RIGHT to pass judgment on the interests and actions of others. And just because you have formed opinions that you believe to be unquestionably correct (most apparently based on second-hand information) that DOES NOT make them so.

(09-03-2017, 07:06 PM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]> I don't see a reason to leave Earth

Then don't, by all means; but then you're an Earthling. I am not. I came here with specific interests and a specific purpose. My main interest is in the technologies that evolve at the close of 3rd D, and can be used for the initial stages of interstellar travel in 4th D. Along with this also the social influences that prompted such developments, including especially music.

Well if you're talking about post-incarnation, then maybe you're right, my soul might go elsewhere. I don't know for sure. I kind of thought you were talking about this incarnation.

May you elaborate on what your interests in the musical consciousness are? There are several currently active music artists that I believe to be intensely aware Wanderers, assisting in raising the vibration of Earth consciousness to a very great degree. (Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada are the two main juggernauts from my point of view)

(09-03-2017, 07:06 PM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]> I haven't heard of a single positive ET race recommending that we leave Earth to go live somewhere else.

I'm not the least bit interested in what other ET races - positive or negative - "recommend". I make my own decisions. You can obey whomever you like.

Well I guess I'm just wondering - on what basis do you recommend departing Earth? I don't think I grasp your stance. If you are talking about post-incarnation departure, then there is no need for preparation at all, as I understand it. You just... leave. You're a spirit once you leave the body. You can do anything after death.

And if you are talking about departure during incarnation - then I don't get what's the point of leaving. Your physical body will die shortly anyway, and you'll be just as free after death as you would have been had you stayed. I definitely feel like I'm missing something.

Also - who is it that you recommend leaves the planet Earth? What is your target population for this endeavor?

(09-03-2017, 07:06 PM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]> I don't think the solution is to run away from a dying Earth.

Then don't. I'm NOT "running away". I'm just doing the job I came here to do; and frankly, it's none of your business. And as to the Hopi tradition, I'm not a Hopi, I have no interest in becoming a Hopi, and I'm sure they have no interest in me.

Please, TRY to understand, everyone else is NOT like you. You have NO RIGHT to pass judgment on the interests and actions of others. And just because you have formed opinions that you believe to be unquestionably correct (most apparently based on second-hand information) that DOES NOT make them so.

Everything's second-hand, isn't it? Only thing you can trust is yourself - firsthand. Besides, I did not ever make a claim to absolutely know. I used to put something like, "I have no idea what I'm talking about. So feel free to crumble my shaky understanding at will." at the end of every post, but I just stopped doing that in order to get a more direct reaction. I felt like I have to have some sort of foundation in order to engage in dialogue. I guess I could put that as my signature, though.

Regarding the Hopi tradition - I was just wondering what you thought about what he says about the fate of humanity. I'm not a Hopi, either, but I found myself agreeing with a lot of where he was coming from. (I too think he adheres too much to a concrete tradition instead of internal Source.)

Hmm! Where to begin? First, the Abrahamic traditions - Judaism, Christianity and Islam - lost what little understanding they had of the Spiritual Realm many centuries ago. Google "Council of Nicaea" to see how this happened in Christianity: basically, the priests concocted childishly simple "tall tales" for the masses, and locked away the esoteric stuff for their own use. Over time their understanding of it atrophied, having neither real humanitarian use for it, nor external challenges to "keep them on their toes". The same happened in the others: the Qubalah, the Qur'an etc. What they now call "spiritual" is merely psychic: the true spiritual is and has long been lost to them.

This is a VERY large topic. As briefly as I can, a human can be viewed as having three aspects, but the only terms for them are in Sanskrit: the Tamasic, physical or material body, the Rajasic, psychic or energy body, and the Sattvic, spiritual or "timeless" body. Re-incarnation is a cyclic process of physical incarnation, death of the physical, existence for a time in the psychic body, and back into the physical, typically dozens of times during early evolution until the spiritual body starts to awaken. I'll point you to another page on a different section of the website, but as I said, it requires years of study AND experience to understand these things:

http://vitency.com/npw/NPW-170625.html

> Besides, only your physical body can die. So what's the problem?

Wrong. The psychic body can and does die under certain circumstances, typically at the end of a cycle of lives during a particular phase of evolution. This is both desirable and necessary. The biggest problem some of the Grey races face is that they CANNOT die: they have learned to exist indefinitely as psychophysical beings, have done so for countless thousands of years, are literally "bored to insanity" by the endless repetitions of their lives, and are seeking "the peace which passeth understanding", that cannot be found in either physical or psychic existence.

> May you elaborate on what your interests in the musical consciousness are?

Music speaks to the generation that composes it. I'm well past retirement age: the music that lives on in my heart is of the 50s, 60s and 70s, with a VERY few later bits and pieces, and some of the better classical. Your musical experience will be quite different from mine, and you'll have to seek out your contemporaries to discuss it.

> Well I guess I'm just wondering - on what basis do you recommend departing Earth?

I don't recommend it: it's what I'm working at myself. Other Wanderers will be doing the same. Some may be sufficiently compatible for us to cooperate, others not. I have no interest in telling others what to do, nor even advising them unless they make a specific request, and even then I'm cautious.

> If you are talking about post-incarnation departure, then there is no need for preparation at all, as I understand it.

On a planet where a healthy STO race begins space travel, it's first done in the psychic realm, since the psychic body can be sustained in space far more easily than can the physical. After preliminary explorations have discovered what possibilities lie ahead, the more difficult task of physical space travel is then undertaken. The first essential for anything other than "Ford Model T" technology is a correct understanding of gravity. The ideas of your scientists about that are completely misguided, and quite useless for technological development. You'll be stuck with primitive reactive propulsion systems (rockets etc) until they progress, and this is highly unlikely.

> You just... leave. You're a spirit once you leave the body. You can do anything after death.

Sorry, that's a fantasy I won't bother reponding to. You'll need to do a great deal more study in this area.

> Also - who is it that you recommend leaves the planet Earth? What is your target population for this endeavor?

Myself and whatever close associates I make during the final phases of development and off-planet excursions. Maybe half a dozen, maybe a few hundred. I'm not here to "save the Earth" - never have been.

> Everything's second-hand, isn't it? Only thing you can trust is yourself - firsthand.

That's correct. You need to develop more "first-hand" knowledge.

> Regarding the Hopi tradition ... he adheres too much to a concrete tradition instead of internal Source.

A great deal of wisdom can still be found in many ancient cultures, but it requires deep digging to find it; and almost all of their practitioners have fallen into ossified religious dogmatism - completely useless. A good example of a rare individual who has attained deep insight into his own tradition is the Zulu shaman Credo Mutwa - google him for more.

(09-03-2017, 09:36 PM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]> You just... leave. You're a spirit once you leave the body. You can do anything after death.

Sorry, that's a fantasy I won't bother reponding to. You'll need to do a great deal more study in this area.

I had heard that after death you go to the Devachanic plane, where you get to live out all the desires you wished to experience in your former life.

> I had heard that after death you go to the Devachanic plane, where you get to live out all the desires you wished to experience in your former life.

You can do that if you wish. The psychic body is an energy body, and so responds to impulses of the same frequencies that compose it. Those impulses can come both from within and without. You'll recall the Simon and Garfunkel song, The Boxer, and the words, "Still a man hears what he wants to hear, And disregards the rest." In the psychic realm this can be literally true. If you pass from physical into psychic life (sc. "die") knowing that you will enter Paradise, and that the door prize is seventy-two virgins, then you'll get them right enough, though both they and the pleasures you share will be manifestations of your own psychic mechanism. Depending on its energy and the strength of your convictions, the fantasy will be quite convincing for a time.

I'll take some time to explain this since there are so many misconceptions surrounding it. The first thing requiring clarification is "Astral Projection". It's commonly thought that the astral body used in projection is just that - what I have called the psychic body - but it is not. The physical and psychic exist in a state, quite literally, of atomic intimacy. Should you ever succeed in separating the physical and psychic bodies, the physical would appear rapidly to "melt"; its autonomic functions would immediately cease, its chemical processes would quickly run to completion, and soon thereafter the normal processes consequent upon death would set in. A normal death, whether peaceful or violent, requires some time for the separation of the two, whereas the process I've just described is quite abnormal, probably impossible other than for an adept.

The vehicle used in astral projection is correctly referred to as an "astral double". It's an energy structure imitating the shape of the physical, connected to it by a "silver cord", and so is not autonomous - sc. not a "body". In today's terms it's best thought of as a highly sophisticated "tethered robot", but whereas a mechanical robot has sensors to detect sound, light etc. the entire double is itself a sensor so attuned to consciousness that its "owner" believes him or herself to be "in it", or to "be it". With practice and skill this double can function as a highly effective quasi-independent vehicle for psychic exploration. However, its perceptions are limited by its composing frequencies: if these are of low grade, it will perceive the coarser frequencies in its surroundings and its owner will believe that he/she/ is exploring hell; if of high grade, that he/she is exploring heaven, or the Devachanic plane if you prefer. However, both may be in the same region of space, just perceiving different aspects of it.

Once you're "dead", much the same state of affairs prevails, but there's no need to "travel about": your own imagination can provide the "scenery" and your "companions". It actually requires a fair level of development to prevent this: to stop your imagination from manufacturing fantasies and allow you to see where you really are rather than where you "unreally" are.

The more usual course of events is that a person dies with certain expectations and half-formed ideas, and emerges into the astral in a very confused and often apprehensive state. He/she is almost always met by others with whom long-term relationships have been formed. Typically they will be "dead relatives" or suchlike with similar beliefs, who will invite the newcomer to "enter heaven" with them. Groups of discarnate people gather together, their energies reinforce, and there are many such groups who have created their own heavens, hells, whatever, that can be quite convincing, at least for a time.

However, just as the physical body needs food for sustaining its structure, so too does the psychic need structure to sustain its shape. The psychic body of a newly "dead" person is an exact replica of the shape of the former physical, but after a while this shape starts to get "fuzzy round the edges", so to speak, and the same is true of all energy structures unless they are maintained by a person or entity of greater power and development than ordinary folk. Without such an entity, everything eventually starts to lose its shape and structure: the devout Muslim's virgins start to look decidedly patchy, the bowls of fruit lose colour and conviction, and Paradise starts to "fizzle out" around you. Most disappointing, and eventually alarming, which is why potent entities are so popular: they can sustain the convincing illusion of their "worshippers" far longer.

It is also why many older entities in the psychic realm are reported as simply ovoids of light: they've lost their original shape; some have no need of it, more potent ones can either "adopt" whatever shape they choose, or "cast an illusion" into the mind of the beholder.

This is why cyclic re-incarnation is necessary: without it, the psychic body would soon lose not only its shape but its inner structure. It's mind and perceptions would grow fuzzy, dim and meaningless, its consciousness would drift into imbecility, and in theory it would simply fade away. In practice the "drive for survival" and desire for sensory experience would have drawn it back into incarnation before that.

Another way of obtaining "structural energy" and maintaining "psychic shape" is by preying on the incarnate - literally sucking energy from them, but that's a separate, large, and rather unpleasant subject.

I was wondering what it is that you desire to share from the information you provided on your website?

You state a target audience and give a lot of information on subjects I guess you were resonant with, but I fail to see the core intent you wish to offer. What does an advanced wanderer has to gain from it?

> What does an advanced wanderer has to gain from it?

This Universe is a truly amazing place; at least, I find it so. The possibilities it holds, once clearly understood, present so much of potential interest, delightful experience, and deeply satisfying reward, that many, including myself, have profound feelings of joy and gratitude whenever we ponder them.

But not everyone, not everywhere, and not always.

On some planets, people lead lives reflecting the above - deeply joyful and satisfying, the positive aspect. On other planets the reverse is the case - millions of lives spent in ignorance and suffering, the negative aspect. Why this should be so is one of the great mysteries of being, for which each must find his or her own answer. I have found mine.

I came here from a past experience of the former: a series of deeply rewarding lives. My early youth here was one of tremulous excitement and anticipation at the possibilities I could see opening before me, and I set to work to make them real. Other than the basic ones of survival into an aging maturity of robust health and ongoing self-development, and having obtained the essential information and experience which I sought, none have been realized. At every turn I have been stymied by unexpected events, failures and misfortunes that have prevented success.

This is far more usual than the reverse: evil here seems to triumph over good far more than good over evil. The enormous suffering endured by innocent people - horrifies me. As a current example, the USA murdered about a quarter of North Korea's population during the Korean War:

The bombing was long, leisurely and merciless, even by the assessment of America's own leaders. "Over a period of three years or so, we killed off - what - 20 percent of the population," Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, told the Office of Air Force History in 1984. Dean Rusk, a supporter of the war and later secretary of state, said the United States bombed "everything that moved in North Korea, every brick standing on top of another." After running low on urban targets, U.S. bombers destroyed hydroelectric and irrigation dams in the later stages of the war, flooding farmland and destroying crops.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...a68cd92f97

http://www.globalresearch.ca/know-the-fa...950s/22131

This was not done just with ordinary weapons, but with napalm, which the Americans referred to as "the wonder weapon". It is a sticky liquid that clings to your skin and literally burns the flesh off your body whilst you are still alive: about the most horrible death imaginable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm#Effects_on_people

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Truman_pu...ml#content

In such a wonderful universe, why does this happen? Why do people do such terrible things to each other? In the case of America, it is in the name of Jesus Christ, the God of Love, and "protecting democracy".

The desire to wake people up to reality - both good AND bad - to have them realize that until they do these horrors will continue to recur, and that the Universe is far greater, and mostly far happier than this sorrowful little planet, is a large part of what motivates such posts as these. The number of hits on my website resulting from them suggests that I've helped several people open their minds to things they might otherwise never have known.

But given the question you've asked and the world we live in, the most difficult thing for you to understand is probably that, other than helping others by passing on something of what I've learned in my time here, I don't expect to gain anything from it at all.

Farewell and a Dieu.

(09-04-2017, 09:22 PM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]> What does an advanced wanderer has to gain from it?

But given the question you've asked and the world we live in, the most difficult thing for you to understand is probably that, other than helping others by passing on something of what I've learned in my time here, I don't expect to gain anything from it at all.

Don't worry I understand the fundamental nature of the Creator to radiate freely, albeit many in this world are in a state which disallows an expression of this aspect they contain.

My question was more aimed to unveil the core of that which you seek to offer as I didn't find to grasp a strong guidline across the information you provide. Can be a failure on my side, which could be reprocicated in others nevertheless.

(09-05-2017, 12:19 AM)vitency Wrote: [ -> ]Farewell and a Dieu.

If that means you are not coming back to this forum, until we meet again in the spiral!

It's an interesting thing... to come to website such as "Bring 4th" and offer an external link for an entirely new, still under construction, website for "advanced wanderers".

Despite my disappointment with most of the regularly active membership here (and there are so few active - relative to member numbers), I find your starting this thread, a bit naive and (unintentionally?) insulting.

You don't explain who you are - you're defensive, peevish; speaking down to people responding to you - (advising them to 'do a lot more reading' or that you 'won't bother to reply' to certain things)...

I've been very critical of this website and many of it's members - but I'd never set up a separate website to this one claiming it was for the "advanced"

- do you realise how advanced the Ra material is?
- how quality the team/mods for this site are?
- how direct their connection to the source material?

Do you realise how very committed and thoughtful people who interact here, are?

The feedback you're getting: (that your aims/ideas are unclear - your posting here is unclear and what you're offering  - is unclear); is valid.

I can't see what you're 'setting up' on your website either... (and I agree it does have a rather fatalistic tone).

I wish you good things, explorations, connections, and spiritual growth.

Maybe examine your agenda/approach - and also your quickness to say goodbye when interest is being shown (despite your arrogant replies) in understanding what exactly it is that you're offering.

Also - why offer when your site is still under construction?

and when you haven't examined your own need for development and wisdom?

This is what I'm doing - looking at my own behaviour and seeing how I can become a wiser, kinder, wanderer; rather than thinking I have the answer for everyone and talking down to them (which I have sometimes done here on B4).

One of the surest ways to become "advanced" is not to distil around the ego of that description.