That's a very curious bit.
If they did this in 3d, then they were a negatively inclined 3d society at that point. The food chain comment seems to indicate something in that direction, as well as constructing weapons bit. Or, early 4d.
Is it really so curious? I've often wondered how common it really is for an entity or S/M/C to remain dedicated to one polarity only throughout the span of 3-6th densities. My own intuitive feeling is that there is probably quite a bit of flipping back and forth over the aeons, at least among entities with a fair margin of free will.
(09-27-2017, 03:52 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Hatonn Wrote:I am Hatonn, and I am again with you. We have adjusted our being and we feel that we are more closely aligned with this instrument. At this time, we would like to share with you a story of our past.
At one time, we of Hatonn were a warlike nation in that, although united as one planet, we were divided into many sects that strove to dominate or control the planet. We chose to combat one another in our efforts to achieve this control, however, none were able to dominate and all were weakened by the struggle. Finally a point was reached in which we of Hatonn were destitute. We had destroyed all of the resources that our planet had to offer and were unable to kill one another simply because we no longer possessed the raw materials from which to construct further weaponry. At this point, we had also destroyed our food chain and were near starvation. In many ways we were, at that time, very similar to you as your planet is today, fixed upon oblivion.
We discovered that our survival as a priority superseded all other priorities and that the requirements for survival became very obvious: regard each man or woman as one’s own brother and share with that brother as you would with your wife or husband or child. Our decimation became, in this manner, our strength. In our choice, in our choosing to reduce our planet’s ability to support life, we inadvertently chose a very strenuously spiritual path, that of loving through forced sharing. Perhaps this may not sound very spiritual to those listening to our words, however, then we learned that sharing was more valuable than surviving. We obtained a vibration level that enabled us to both sustain our bodies and at the same time, progress beyond physical needs.
We share this story with you not in pride, obviously, but in encouragement. Small though your numbers may be, those of you who have grown beyond your brothers in your desire to love and share will be able in destitution and poverty and in starvation to mold and guide the growth of your race but only if you keep faith with your feelings. We feel that it is necessary to encourage you at this point because the time draws near when your strengths will be called upon and tested severely. Many of those strengths in many of you are already being tested at this time.
We love you in the manner of brothers who can only watch and encourage and advise you as you grow and we desire that your growth be rapid and as painless as is possible. However, what you call growing pains will occur and are occurring now that you may adapt yourselves to the experience of pain without taking the pain within and clinging to it as one would a valuable jewel or possession. All things pass, as will your pains even if they pass as a result of your death on the physical plane. Do not let this death or these pains worry you. They are merely tools with which the universe shapes the final product which you so desire to become. I am Hatonn.
November 16, 1980
Wow thats amazing how Hatonn social memory complex turned it around, it reminds me how communitys here when faced with a crisis can overcome and all work for a common good. in this case "Hatonn realised sharing was more valuable than surving" the power and bliss of love, this would strongly polarised those invovled, perhaps not all people but enough for a social memory complex to form and conditions for harvest.
Well I think what they describe as "encouraging" is that they completely screwed it up, but they used that screwing up as the means to healing. Privation, insecurity, suffering and discord were the path to peace and unity. I think that means we should buckle up.
I thought it was curious how they described the socio-political state of the planet: "although united as one planet, we were divided into many sects that strove to dominate or control the planet". How close is that to our geopolitical situation? It's a strange way to put it. Are we "united as one planet" but divided into nation-state sects (or even further)? It implies that there is a kind of unified identity that comes from so-called "globalization", at least broadly construed.
I guess not having a unified planetary identity would be like the state of the world prior to the age of exploration. It is interesting to think of us as working with separation in a context where, fundamentally, all the prerequisites are in place for us to be a united social complex.
(09-28-2017, 02:11 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]Is it really so curious? I've often wondered how common it really is for an entity or S/M/C to remain dedicated to one polarity only throughout the span of 3-6th densities. My own intuitive feeling is that there is probably quite a bit of flipping back and forth over the aeons, at least among entities with a fair margin of free will.
You think SMCs can switch polarities even after 3rd density??
(09-28-2017, 01:47 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2017, 02:11 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]Is it really so curious? I've often wondered how common it really is for an entity or S/M/C to remain dedicated to one polarity only throughout the span of 3-6th densities. My own intuitive feeling is that there is probably quite a bit of flipping back and forth over the aeons, at least among entities with a fair margin of free will.
You think SMCs can switch polarities even after 3rd density??
19.18:
Quote:Questioner: I assume that an entity on either path can decide to choose paths at any time and possibly retrace steps, the path-changing being more difficult the farther along is gone. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have.
I see no reason to think that would be density-restricted, at least prior to 7D. Not to mention that Ra explicitly mentions (
78.25) that 6D negatives will flip positive prior to abandoning polarity, so it certainly appears that polarity-flipping is possible up to around mid-6D. After which point it's abandoned entirely in favor of embracing the depolarized unity of love\light.
Yeah, 5th density wanderers who flipped polarities in Ra's own third density are mentioned in
session 89.
Pema Chödrön makes the point in her book
When Things Fall Apart that as you spiritually progress, you would think it would take bigger and bigger challenges to unnerve and squeeze you. But in actuality she says it's the smaller ones that tend to sneak in, catch you by surprise, and give you catalyst. Those of Ra have spoken about how wanderers typically incarnate in third density in order to work on fine adjustments; I imagine it's possible that a previously overlooked flaw could manifest an experience in the confusion of third density leading to an entire polarity change.
(09-28-2017, 02:03 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I see no reason to think that would be density-restricted, at least prior to 7D. Not to mention that Ra explicitly mentions (78.25) that 6D negatives will flip positive prior to abandoning polarity, so it certainly appears that polarity-flipping is possible up to around mid-6D. After which point it's abandoned entirely in favor of embracing the depolarized unity of love\light.
What could possibly occur to impel a higher density entity to flip polarities? That is crazy. Because they are making the choice with full conscious awareness - no confusion there.
(09-28-2017, 02:28 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, 5th density wanderers who flipped polarities in Ra's own third density are mentioned in session 89.
I remember that, but APeacefulWarrior suggests that even without the veil, in high densities, such a polarity flip is possible.
(09-28-2017, 02:33 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2017, 02:03 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I see no reason to think that would be density-restricted, at least prior to 7D. Not to mention that Ra explicitly mentions (78.25) that 6D negatives will flip positive prior to abandoning polarity, so it certainly appears that polarity-flipping is possible up to around mid-6D. After which point it's abandoned entirely in favor of embracing the depolarized unity of love\light.
What could possibly occur to impel a higher density entity to flip polarities? That is crazy. Because they are making the choice with full conscious awareness - no confusion there.
I honestly don't understand what your objection is or why you think it "crazy." The Creator is All Things. All Entities. All Events. Both "Positive" and "Negative." Do you really find it so hard to believe that some entities would wish to experience as much of the Creator as possible prior to re-unification, rather than cutting themselves off from half of That-Which-Is-Creator?
I mean, it's not like they'd be avoiding it. If they didn't experience the opposite polarity prior to unification, they certainly would once they merged!
(09-28-2017, 02:11 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]Is it really so curious? I've often wondered how common it really is for an entity or S/M/C to remain dedicated to one polarity only throughout the span of 3-6th densities. My own intuitive feeling is that there is probably quite a bit of flipping back and forth over the aeons, at least among entities with a fair margin of free will.
When the density of an entity or planetary body is low, flipping polarities is much harder, when the entity's density is much higher, it is much easier, if we conclude from what Ra says about switching polarity.
Thus, it is curious in that they switched polarity to positive from negative or non-positive 3d, since they describe technologies that pertain to 3d. That makes it difficult to do in 3d.
Just like our own society here - its negatively inclined societal organization still keeps many entities in orange/yellow, forcing them to act negatively and the system has considerable resistance to change.
(09-28-2017, 09:06 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]I thought it was curious how they described the socio-political state of the planet: "although united as one planet, we were divided into many sects that strove to dominate or control the planet". How close is that to our geopolitical situation?
I think its pretty far. Unitedness does not exist in this planet in noticeable form.
(09-28-2017, 03:26 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]When the density of an entity or planetary body is low, flipping polarities is much harder, when the entity's density is much higher, it is much easier, if we conclude from what Ra says about switching polarity.
Actually, he says that the level of
polarity is what makes switching easier. He didn't actually mention Density. Although I do personally tend to think that switching is easier at higher densities as well. Pretty much what that says is that "Ebenezer Scrooge-style face turns are possible."
(And also the opposite, of course...)
Quote:Just like our own society here - its negatively inclined societal organization still keeps many entities in orange/yellow, forcing them to act negatively and the system has considerable resistance to change.
Perhaps, then, one of the takeaways you should get from Hatonn's story is that the system may not be as change-resistant as you think. ;-)
(09-28-2017, 02:33 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2017, 02:03 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I see no reason to think that would be density-restricted, at least prior to 7D. Not to mention that Ra explicitly mentions (78.25) that 6D negatives will flip positive prior to abandoning polarity, so it certainly appears that polarity-flipping is possible up to around mid-6D. After which point it's abandoned entirely in favor of embracing the depolarized unity of love\light.
What could possibly occur to impel a higher density entity to flip polarities? That is crazy. Because they are making the choice with full conscious awareness - no confusion there.
There's many reasons I think.
Helping your SMC's growth when you resolve the polarity, gaining a greater understanding of your other-selves currently dwelling in that polarity just as experiencing to become one with them, learning about yourself and the Creator facing a fuller and more complete mirror, having a much greater positive growth later on.
I think it's rare in term of ratio but it isn't all that uncommon either and these souls do provide a great service and end up becoming somewhat like bridges for the path of repolarization of many.
Seems like Hatonn got some balancing to do about their lack of pride in their past, is it not a mirror upon the Creator after all?
(09-28-2017, 03:32 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2017, 03:26 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]When the density of an entity or planetary body is low, flipping polarities is much harder, when the entity's density is much higher, it is much easier, if we conclude from what Ra says about switching polarity.
Actually, he says that the level of polarity is what makes switching easier. He didn't actually mention Density. Although I do personally tend to think that switching is easier at higher densities as well. Pretty much what that says is that "Ebenezer Scrooge-style face turns are possible."
indeed so, i stand corrected.
however there is a conundrum here:
Polarity generally goes hand in hand with density. Ra says the polarity of 4d positive entities graduating in 4d harvest collectively approximate 99% on average, and the negative entities must do around 95% even to graduate from 3d to 4d.
And if we recall the story of 5d wanderers who turned to negative during their incarnation in Ra's 3d experience, it took considerable hard work for them to realign their polarity to positive. And possibly, time.
However negative 6d entities just switch to positive like a flip switch.
(And also the opposite, of course...)
(09-28-2017, 03:32 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps, then, one of the takeaways you should get from Hatonn's story is that the system may not be as change-resistant as you think. ;-)
If it would require a massive global war, possibly billions dead, destruction of ecosystem and global starvation to make the change happen, you can easily say the system is quite resistant.
Most SMC's are worried most about having been pussies in the past, and generally try to increase the heroism in future adventures.
Great courage = Big spiritual growth.
(09-28-2017, 04:53 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]If it would require a massive global war, possibly billions dead, destruction of ecosystem and global starvation to make the change happen, you can easily say the system is quite resistant.
Well there were factions bidding for this very scenario, but their plans were scuppered. What we are seeing now is the sweeping up operation.
The system does what it says on the tin.
(09-27-2017, 03:52 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Hatonn Wrote:[...] Perhaps this may not sound very spiritual to those listening to our words, however, then we learned that sharing was more valuable than surviving. [...]
I always thought that Jesus' life was intended as an illustration and example of how well it was possible to live in a human body -- and his willingness to die as an illustration that to live well is much more important than to stay alive. It's nice to see Hatonn make the same point.
(09-28-2017, 03:25 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly don't understand what your objection is or why you think it "crazy." The Creator is All Things. All Entities. All Events. Both "Positive" and "Negative." Do you really find it so hard to believe that some entities would wish to experience as much of the Creator as possible prior to re-unification, rather than cutting themselves off from half of That-Which-Is-Creator?
I mean, it's not like they'd be avoiding it. If they didn't experience the opposite polarity prior to unification, they certainly would once they merged!
Well I meant it in a "can you imagine?!" sort of way. Like seriously, can you imagine the intensity of transition from intense overwhelming unity to complete and utter separation - or vice versa? Specifically the point that Ra talks about, how at mid-sixth density the negative polarity
must unite with the rest of Creation in order to progress - THAT is an unfathomable moment. After eons, eons, over a hundred million years of separation from EVERYTHING, and in an instant, they reunite, to the fullness of unity that sixth density has to offer. That is crazy.
Also, I find it difficult to even talk about the specifics of higher densities, or to make or agree with any firm statement about them, because of how many levels removed these realms are from our own experience.
(09-28-2017, 05:11 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]Most SMC's are worried most about having been pussies in the past, and generally try to increase the heroism in future adventures.
Great courage = Big spiritual growth.
Did you ever see an early-90s Albert Brooks comedy called "Defending Your Life"? It's actually a cute concept, with the core idea being that the cycle of reincarnation is specifically about learning to overcome one's fears while growing in self-awareness\empowerment. Probably one of his more entertaining films, but it's largely forgotten.
(09-27-2017, 03:52 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]We discovered that our survival as a priority superseded all other priorities and that the requirements for survival became very obvious: regard each man or woman as one’s own brother and share with that brother as you would with your wife or husband or child. Our decimation became, in this manner, our strength. In our choice, in our choosing to reduce our planet’s ability to support life, we inadvertently chose a very strenuously spiritual path, that of loving through forced sharing. Perhaps this may not sound very spiritual to those listening to our words, however, then we learned that sharing was more valuable than surviving. We obtained a vibration level that enabled us to both sustain our bodies and at the same time, progress beyond physical needs.
Interesting. I have no doubt that socialism (the ideal not the implemented systems) is a STO model of society.
(09-29-2017, 11:16 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting. I have no doubt that socialism (the ideal not the implemented systems) is a STO model of society.
Myself being extremely late to discovering the hints in Ra material in that direction, i would agree.
Socialism as in not social democracy, but proper socialism, possibly mixed with anarcho-communism at the community level, i would guess.
(09-29-2017, 04:16 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2017, 05:11 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]Most SMC's are worried most about having been pussies in the past, and generally try to increase the heroism in future adventures.
Great courage = Big spiritual growth.
Did you ever see an early-90s Albert Brooks comedy called "Defending Your Life"? It's actually a cute concept, with the core idea being that the cycle of reincarnation is specifically about learning to overcome one's fears while growing in self-awareness\empowerment. Probably one of his more entertaining films, but it's largely forgotten.
One of my favorites. It was actually quite difficult to get hold of a hard copy a while ago. Very underrated bit of thoughtful fun.
The premise of the narrative was that fear is the biggest hurdle in spiritual growth. Quite true I think.
Unity100 Wrote:Socialism as in not social democracy, but proper socialism, possibly mixed with anarcho-communism at the community level, i would guess.
Yes! To my mind, we should be prepared for a socialism that looks completely different than the ultra-ideological varieties we've been considering over the last two hundred years. I believe we're starting to see some of that in the socialist resurgence occurring in the USA right now. It's not very Marxist per se and much more about identifying people's needs with an attitude of "this simply needs to be fixed, and the current system is insufficient to that end".
I think you're going to see a DIY version of socialism emerge that doesn't overthrow capitalism so much as make capitalism seem silly, hollow, and obsolete while providing local, community-controlled organizations to fill the gap. The internet is democratizing the kind of messaging that advertising has been using to shape our choices for years. Remember: for years, capitalist economists have defended the system of prices and scarcity as an information system communicating marginal supply and demand. Now we have lots of rich, decentralized communication vectors. We could make this work a lot better now. In fact,
the Allende government in Chile was doing some of this kind of networked cyber-socialism back in the 70s.
I don't even think we necessarily need the internet to run the economy this way -- it's just that the internet is such a great model of decentralization, and can open imaginations to what is possible without corporate/government mediation.
(10-02-2017, 09:24 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Unity100 Wrote:Socialism as in not social democracy, but proper socialism, possibly mixed with anarcho-communism at the community level, i would guess.
Yes! To my mind, we should be prepared for a socialism that looks completely different than the ultra-ideological varieties we've been considering over the last two hundred years.
Except...
Quote:I think you're going to see a DIY version of socialism emerge that doesn't overthrow capitalism so much as make capitalism seem silly, hollow, and obsolete while providing local, community-controlled organizations to fill the gap.
...that is pretty much textbook socialism as envisaged in the past 200 years.
I had not read this transcript before!!
Hatonn is a favorite of mine. It's nice to hear about the perfect harmony of Creation. Hopeful!
Something I notice is that even on positive 3D planets, war seems to be a central experience for many. Maldek, Mars, Earth, even Ra's 3D on Venus had holy war. Then the entities mentioned in book 1 who accidentally traumatized that man by looking into his mind to learn about the experiences of war (these entities were late 3D evolved from 2D trees. Their meditation was movement.)
Anyway, thank you for sharing this! It's just what I needed
Hey wait, so how's this a secret?
(09-28-2017, 06:47 PM)Stranger Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2017, 03:52 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Hatonn Wrote:[...] Perhaps this may not sound very spiritual to those listening to our words, however, then we learned that sharing was more valuable than surviving. [...]
I always thought that Jesus' life was intended as an illustration and example of how well it was possible to live in a human body -- and his willingness to die as an illustration that to live well is much more important than to stay alive. It's nice to see Hatonn make the same point.
Its just hitting me now so my thought process isn't perfectly clear but this makes me think about how Jesus taught that is was better to dedicate yourself to god, and to only marry if you couldn't control your sexual urges basically.
It makes sense when you think how people have a tendency to horde their wealth for the family's future vs sharing it. Its much easier as a single person to change your life get off the treadmill, serve with your life, once you feel responsible to a small group its harder to serve ALL. Not impossible but the urge to ensure those you love are protected/provided for FIRST and foremost is a pretty strong one.