Bring4th

Hi everyone,

If anyone has read his work, I'm looking for insights and thoughts about a book I've been reading called The Spirits Book by Allan Kardec written in 1857. It's comprised of over 1000 questions that this man asked various spirits through five mediums. To get to the point, after reading maybe halfway through it left me feeling very depressed for the rest of the night.
Here are some of the questions and answers.


-Does the duration of the state of erraticity depend on the will of the spirit, or may it be imposed as an expiation?
"It is a consequence of the spirit's free-will. Spirits act with full discernment; but, in some cases, the prolongation of this state is a punishment inflicted by God, while in others, it has been granted to them at their own request, to enable them to pursue studies which they can prosecute more effectually in the dis-incarnate state."

A punishment inflicted by God?? Seriously?!

-Are wandering spirits happy or unhappy?
'More or less so according to their deserts. They suffer from the passions of which they have retained the principle, or they are happy in proportion as they are more or less dematerialised.
In the state of erraticity, a spirit perceives what he needs in order to become happier, and he is thus stimulated to seek out the means of attaining what he lacks. But he is not always
permitted to reincarnate himself when he desires to do so, and the prolongation of erraticity then becomes a punishment."

How is not incarnating a punishment? And why is incarnation a punishment? What did we all do wrong??

Do the different degrees which exist in the advancement of spirits establish among the latter a hierarchy of powers? Are there, among spirits, subordination and authority?
"Yes; the authority of spirits over one another, in virtue of their relative superiority, is very great, and gives to the higher ones a moral ascendancy over the lower ones which is absolutely irresistible."

I dont like this hierarchy stuff.

Can spirits of lower degree withdraw themselves from the authority of those who are higher than themselves?
"I have said that the authority which comes of superiority is irresistible."

So you HAVE to like the more higher beings or should i say, you dont have a choice but to like them?? How is that free will if everyone is brainwashed when they enter these beings presence?

When a soldier, after a battle, meets his general in the spirit-world, does he still acknowledge him as his superior.'
"Titles are nothing; intrinsic superiority is everything."

More of this superiority stuff...

How is the soul received on its return to the spirit-word?
"That of the righteous, as a dearly-beloved brother, whose return has been long waited for; that of the wicked, with contempt."

This is the meaning of Contempt: the feeling that a person or a thing is worthless or beneath consideration. So what happened to Love and Light for everyone?

Do spirits foresee the epoch of their next return to corporeal life?
"They have the presentiment of that return, as a blind man feels the heat of the fire he is approaching. They know that they will be reincarnated, as you know that you will die; but
without knowing when the change will occur."

So we dont know when we are going to incarnate? It just happens? Where is free-will in this?

Reincarnation, then, is a necessity of spirit-life, as death is a necessity of corporeal life?
"Certainly."

So we are forced now? Again, where is free-will?

Do all spirits occupy themselves beforehand with their approaching incarnation?
"There are some who never give it a thought, and who even know nothing about it; that depends on their greater or less degree of advancement. In some cases, the uncertainty in
which they are left in regard to their future is a punishment."

more punishment?

Can a spirit hasten or retard the moment of his reincarnation ?
"He may hasten it by the action of a strong desire; he may also put it off if he shrink from the trial awaiting him (for the cowardly and the indifferent are to be found among spirits as
among men), but he cannot do so with impunity. He suffers from such delay, as the sick man suffers who shrinks from employing the remedy which alone can cure him."

Suffers? How is incarnating the ONLY way a spirit can learn? I highly doubt that every single spirit throughout creation has incarnated.

If a spirit found himself tolerably happy in an average condition among errant spirits, could he prolong that state indefinitely?
"No, not indefinitely. The necessity of advancing is one which is felt by every spirit, sooner or later. All spirits have to ascend it is their destiny."

Where the F*ck is free will? What if a spirit doesnt want to ascend? Why must a spirit ascend? If Spirits are designed with a compulsion to ascend, then theres no free will really.

Could a spirit refuse, at the last moment, to enter into the body that had been chosen by him?
"If he refused, he would suffer much more than one who had not attempted to undergo a new trial."

Why would a spirit suffer from not wanting to incarnate?

Is the moment of incarnation accompanied by a confusion similar to that which follows the spirit's separation from the body?
"Yes, but much greater and especially much longer. At death the spirit is emancipated from the state of slavery; at birth, he re-enters it."

So incarnation is slavery? what did we do wrong that we are being punished like this??



So as you can see, these are just some of the many questions and answers that made me really unhappy. I feel very down as this is a theme that has been a great source of my sadness and despair my whole life. All I want is freedom to make my own choices in as much time as I want and if I dont want to do something that I will not be forced. Why does the Infinite Creator seem like such a horrible being? One of the replies in the above mentioned book was along the lines that the Creator/God doesnt need our permission if it wants to do something (in this case make us incarnate).

Is everything we go through really for us or is it for the Creator?
I just want to be free, am I asking too much?


I hope someone here can shed some light on this as I dont know what to do.

It's all for the Creator.  But since we're the Creator and the Creator creates this for us, it's all for us.

Except realistically it's not, because 'us' die, and spirits at certain points forget their identities so have their own 'rebirth' just as we have 'death'.

Free Will is a Distortion of the real Free Will of the One Creator that we all within that Distortion 'enjoy'.  It is individually present in 'us' but the Creator is the One who employs it's being within us.  It can supersede our free will for its own, but seems to only make situations where this occurs rather than at any time potentially.

A lot of those answers are curved with the Time's prejudices.  1857, things were darker back then.  And those mediums probably had heavily mixed messages.

If anything this is a good look into sts mechanisms.  If a higher negative being in the hierarchy was irresistible it'd make sense why the hierarchy isn't a constant changing pyramid of internal war and how negative smc's can exist in a state of entropy but not be impossible to maintain.

Well, I'm from Brazil. Here the spiritism is very popular. "The Spirits Book" is the main work of the spiritism.

How you noted, there are some distortions in this book because Allan Kardec lived in hard times of conservadorism and it's notable the influence of catolicism in this work. This explain the jewish-christian concepts in the book, because the spirits in which Allan comunicated were catolic in your last incarnations. However, the main quality of the spiritism is the incentive of positive polarization and Jesus is the model. Here in Brazil, lived a man called Chico Xavier. He is the most famous medium of my country. Chico was a extremely STO entity, very humble, and I can said that he is a model of man.

So, the spiritism have some errors, but the love is the main teaching. And this is the way to 4D.

About your query:

(10-17-2017, 04:22 PM)The Traveler Wrote: [ -> ]Why does the Infinite Creator seem like such a horrible being?

This a jewish-christian influence (as I said above).

(10-17-2017, 04:22 PM)The Traveler Wrote: [ -> ]One of the replies in the above mentioned book was along the lines that the Creator/God doesnt need our permission if it wants to do something (in this case make us incarnate).

The Creator is like a body and we cells. So, makes no any sense the Creator make something like that. But, the incarnation is a necessity of a 3D entity which not graduated to 4D. In the period bewteen incarnations, in the inner plans, the normal is to distill the experiences and await the next incarnation. However, dependind of the level of addiction with the material life, an entity become what Ra explain here:

Quote:47.13 Questioner: What stimulus would create what we call an Earth-bound spirit or a lingering ghost?

Ra: I am Ra. The stimulus for this is the faculty of the will. If the will of yellow-ray mind/body/spirit is that which is stronger than the progressive impetus of the physical death towards realization of that which comes, that is, if the will is concentrated enough upon the previous experience, the entity’s shell of yellow ray, though no longer activated, cannot either be completely deactivated and, until the will is released, the mind/body/spirit complex is caught. This often occurs, as we see you are aware, in the case of sudden death as well as in the case of extreme concern for a thing or an other-self.

(10-17-2017, 04:22 PM)The Traveler Wrote: [ -> ]Is everything we go through really for us or is it for the Creator?
I just want to be free, am I asking too much?

There are low astral planes. It's called umbral in spiritism. It's really like a hell. The level of vibration of entity determines the astral level afterdeath. So, it's possible suffer for centuries and the only way to cure is incarnate again. It's no normal an entity stay in umbral. The addiction with the illusion is so strong that these entities needs healing. The freewill it's sovereign. There are entities living for millennia in umbral. In this sense, the incarnation it's necessary.

You is already free, thus you is the Infinite Creator. Discover the Creator in yourself and you'll walking the universe with unfettered tread.

(10-17-2017, 09:50 PM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of those answers are curved with the Time's prejudices.  1857, things were darker back then.  And those mediums probably had heavily mixed messages.

Yes this is what I picked up also, the use of the word "God" and at one point one of the replies was that the interviewer read the Psalms.

(10-17-2017, 09:50 PM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]If anything this is a good look into sts mechanisms.  If a higher negative being in the hierarchy was irresistible it'd make sense why the hierarchy isn't a constant changing pyramid of internal war and how negative smc's can exist in a state of entropy but not be impossible to maintain.

It's interesting that you should say that as it would make sense. What wouldnt make sense would be a good and loving being of STO polarity to "make" other beings like it, I mean that would seem like an infringement of free-will.

Thanks for your reply.

(10-17-2017, 10:51 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Well, I'm from Brazil. Here the spiritism is very popular. "The Spirits Book" is the main work of the spiritism.

How you noted, there are some distortions in this book because Allan Kardec lived in hard times of conservadorism and it's notable the influence of catolicism in this work. This explain the jewish-christian concepts in the book, because the spirits in which Allan comunicated were catolic in your last incarnations. However, the main quality of the spiritism is the incentive of positive polarization and Jesus is the model. Here in Brazil, lived a man called Chico Xavier. He is the most famous medium of my country. Chico was a extremely STO entity, very humble, and I can said that he is a model of man.

So, the spiritism have some errors, but the love is the main teaching. And this is the way to 4D.

The Creator is like a body and we cells. So, makes no any sense the Creator make something like that. But, the incarnation is a necessity of a 3D entity which not graduated to 4D. In the period bewteen incarnations, in the inner plans, the normal is to distill the experiences and await the next incarnation. However, dependind of the level of addiction with the material life, an entity become what Ra explain here:

There are low astral planes. It's called umbral in spiritism. It's really like a hell. The level of vibration of entity determines the astral level afterdeath. So, it's possible suffer for centuries and the only way to cure is incarnate again. It's no normal an entity stay in umbral. The addiction with the illusion is so strong that these entities needs healing. The freewill it's sovereign. There are entities living for millennia in umbral. In this sense, the incarnation it's necessary.

You is already free, thus you is the Infinite Creator. Discover the Creator in yourself and you'll walking the universe with unfettered tread.

Yes I've read about Chico Xavier, I think he was the one that channeled the man that the movie "Astral City" is based on, where that doctor died and went to Umbral but was eventually saved.
I really enjoyed that movie, was very beautiful. Regarding your post, it does make sense that 3D entities have to incarnate, like children having to go to school till they graduate and leave school and then they can make their own choices on what to do with their lives so, that does resonate with me.

Thank you Infinite for responding to my thread, your post made me feel a lot better and I don't feel so sad anymore, I feel a bit more optimistic now.
I've been struggling for a while now with negative thoughts and bouts of depression and sometimes I read things that make me get really down. Maybe I'm getting negative greetings? I'm not sure.

Thank you again Infinite.
Love and Light to you.