Bring4th

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:No offense, please do realize many people consider the Ra Material and the affiliated group Cult related.

Cults are identified as such by their behaviour, not by their beliefs. Their is no behaviour on the part of LL that warrants the cult label. There is no charismatic authority, no control or coercion, no thought reform, no strict hierarchy, etc. In fact, LL has pretty much embodied exactly the opposite of cultish behaviour. Freedom in thought and action, differing views, etc. are encouraged, because its at the heart of the philosophy, which is just the opposite of how any cult operates. Cults are not known for their freedom, they are known for their enslavement and fear. The Ra material is extremely freeing.

It is precisely that freedom which makes this forum such a...uhm... 'spirited' place sometimes. The message of Oneness is also not new, it has been taught by sages throughout the ages, those of Ra just gave us a different slant on information which is always and ever the same.

Great point YinYang. Here are the characteristics of a cult from Rick Ross, a well-known expert and researcher of the cult phenomenon:

Quote:Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who once taught at Harvard Medical School, wrote a paper titled Cult Formation in the early 1980s. He delineated three primary characteristics, which are the most common features shared by destructive cults.

1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power. That is a living leader, who has no meaningful accountability and becomes the single most defining element of the group and its source of power and authority.

2. A process [of indoctrination or education is in use that can be seen as] coercive persuasion or thought reform [commonly called "brainwashing"].

The culmination of this process can be seen by members of the group often doing things that are not in their own best interest, but consistently in the best interest of the group and its leader.

Lifton's seminal book Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism explains this process in considerable detail.

3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

... and ...

Quote:Some groups may not fit the definition of a cult, but may pose potential risks for participants. Here are 10 warning signs of a potentially unsafe group or leader.

• Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

• No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

• No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget or expenses, such as an independently audited financial statement.

• Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

• There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

• Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

• There are records, books, news articles, or broadcast reports that document the abuses of the group/leader.

• Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

• The group/leader is always right.

• The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

All taken from here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...n-religion

That's a pretty nice summation, Stranger. Lifton was such a pioneer in studying brainwashing and cults, that book of his is a seminal work in the field! I have been meaning to read his other book Witness to an Extreme Century.

(10-16-2017, 05:27 AM)YinYang Wrote: [ -> ]

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:No offense, please do realize many people consider the Ra Material and the affiliated group Cult related.

Cults are identified as such by their behaviour, not by their beliefs. Their is no behaviour on the part of LL that warrants the cult label. There is no charismatic authority, no control or coercion, no thought reform, no strict hierarchy, etc. In fact, LL has pretty much embodied exactly the opposite of cultish behaviour. Freedom in thought and action, differing views, etc. are encouraged, because its at the heart of the philosophy, which is just the opposite of how any cult operates. Cults are not known for their freedom, they are known for their enslavement and fear. The Ra material is extremely freeing.

It is precisely that freedom which makes this forum such a...uhm... 'spirited' place sometimes. The message of Oneness is also not new, it has been taught by sages throughout the ages, those of Ra just gave us a different slant on information which is always and ever the same.

(10-16-2017, 06:43 AM)Stranger Wrote: [ -> ]Great point YinYang.  Here are the characteristics of a cult from Rick Ross, a well-known expert and researcher of the cult phenomenon:

Quote:Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who once taught at Harvard Medical School, wrote a paper titled Cult Formation in the early 1980s. He delineated three primary characteristics, which are the most common features shared by destructive cults.

1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power. That is a living leader, who has no meaningful accountability and becomes the single most defining element of the group and its source of power and authority.

2. A process [of indoctrination or education is in use that can be seen as] coercive persuasion or thought reform [commonly called "brainwashing"].

The culmination of this process can be seen by members of the group often doing things that are not in their own best interest, but consistently in the best interest of the group and its leader.

Lifton's seminal book Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism explains this process in considerable detail.

3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

... and ...

Quote:Some groups may not fit the definition of a cult, but may pose potential risks for participants. Here are 10 warning signs of a potentially unsafe group or leader.

• Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

• No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

• No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget or expenses, such as an independently audited financial statement.

• Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

• There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

• Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

• There are records, books, news articles, or broadcast reports that document the abuses of the group/leader.

• Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

• The group/leader is always right.

• The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

All taken from here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...n-religion

What a useful list to organize this post with, thank you for posting it!  Don't mind if I just use it to help organize my explanation.

1: Cult members sometimes do not associate their group as being a cult.

2: Ra is a very charismatic leader and without her word would not have formulated the material that has drawn so many into this group.

3: The Ra Material has a well known effect on some people of causing a 'spiritual awakening' which in some ways can be equated to indoctrinating one into a new way of life, in this case, a Spiritual Life.

4: It is my understanding that Don during the time of the Ra Material basically had Carla on a leash during the escapades with the 5D Entity, this is arguably a form of exploitation by Don to pretty much protect that which he needed to continue performing the ritual needed to channel this material.  That's ignoring the exploitation by Ra of Carla's willingness to channel Ra at her own free will choice even if right up to the point of her Death, which fits with a leader exploiting one who believes in said leader.  That is also ignoring how Jim and Carla basically had to have sex in lieu of Carla being with her partner, Don, just to 'charge her' to do Don's desire to channel Ra for further questioning at Carla's consensual expense.

5: Some groups may not fit the definition of a cult, but may pose potential risks for participants: Some examples of this with regards to the Ra Material, I have seen people, and seen people talk about seeing people, of after reading the Ra Material pretty much losing their minds to ideas of being haunted by negative entities, other's have posited wild stories citing the Material as their proof that they are being manipulated by discarnate negative entities.  There's also people who have become damaged psychologically from this material, coming to believe themselves to be greater or lesser than who they really are, even weaving a narrative using information from the Ra Material to rationalize it.  Some people believe they are many great characters from history, other people believe they do not even come from this reality, and some believe that they are actively 'jumping' through various realities based solely on making loose connections to synchronicities and their personal beliefs engendered by the core philosophy of the Law of One with it's outer teachings of metaphysics.  Finally, the Ra Material provides 'teachings' (indoctrination's some might say) of how to properly be as a Wanderer trying to polarize in certain ways, which is further Ra Material speak for behaving certain ways.

6: There is a keen lack by anyone to try and attempt to contact Ra again, as if scared of what this might entail or disbelieving in the ability to do so again, but whatever it might be, there is a total lack of acceptance or at least desire of this notion, which can loosely be equated to a lack of tolerance for this line of reasoning beyond hearing it out then shooting it down.

7: Unreasonable Fears occur in some who read this Material, as said above, it mostly manifests as people believing they are being harassed, assaulted, and manipulated by invisible malevolent entities.  Further for some, such as myself personally, this Material has exacerbated a fear of the outside world, specifically the chance to be met by random intense catalyst while out in it, involving a catastrophe occurring in my personal life, not so much the entire world.  To further point out, many people of this group for a long time believed in a 'sudden shift' event in 2011-2012 because of the information found in the Ra Material, which is in some ways for some people a cause to make them fear that date, as the only way to become harvested (or even go through Harvest) is for the person to pretty much die first with few exceptions.

8: There is no legitimate reason to leave behind the Law of One, and to do so while not looked down upon, would possibly appear strange to others who live adamantly by this Philosophy.

9: Many members have related stories of abuse in their childhoods, and while not caused by the group specifically, it is seemingly a natural occurrence according to the Ra Material for one to become traumatized during intense polarization, of which they offer the information or teachings of how to perform such an act.  This can lead to people abusing themselves, pushing themselves to be ways that result in their being traumatized.  Such stories are not far and few, they occasionally pop up where a 'sufficiently polarizing person' is suddenly 'afflicted with something'.  Carla was in Pain, Don became mentally unstable, others say they were being manipulated by invisible entities, and others have said wilder things.

10: There is documentation of Don's suicide, and of his keeping Carla close by at all times when he felt her life was in danger, and further some speculate that Don was in ways abusive in how he handled Carla.

11: At least for me personally, I can say that since discovering the Ra Material I have felt a keen sense of 'I can never be as good as those entities of Love and Light', which can be translated to never feeling good enough.  I often feel that way when posting here on the forum too, like I can never explain myself good enough.  I imagine I'm not the only one who experiences this.

12: Ra is always right, except when Ra points out they are wrong, at least, the majority of drawn in readers will undoubtedly listen to what Ra has to say, but one (or possibly a few) poster(s) has pointed out several areas where Ra was incorrect, and this was rationalized with mathematical translation errors and faulty contact tuning.  Hence, Ra typically is not wrong on purpose.

13: Ra for many is a 'truth' source, and despite their teachings of discovering truth on the inner self, nonetheless is what most people of this group refer back to when they are in search of Truth.  You can tell a man to fish, you can even teach him how to fish, but if you're the master fishermen he will want to see your fish that you've caught.

14: You provided me a list to organize all of this information upon while others are in denial of this group having the qualities to be properly identified at least as a peaceful cult.  You don't need to identify as belonging to this group if being a part of a cult in other's people minds bothers you, but overall there would be many who upon observation would categorize this group as a cult irregardless of our open and accepting nature as a group.

Christianity started out with a set of teachings that people felt to be truth, that they behaved accordingly to, it was a cult.  This 'Philosophy' isn't very much far away enough to be unable to be classified with the designation 'cult'.

A Cult is not evil, I am not assigning the attribute of evil to this group when I say that it can be classified as a Cult.  The word Cult is not a stigma to me, so when I assign that observable identifier to this group, do realize it's more so for my own rationalization to remind myself that there is those who believe in one thing, and then there's me/us, who believe in some crazy One Infinite thing.

I'm sorry the term upset you guys, but in my eyes this group qualifies enough so to be identifiable with that label.  I don't see why that's a big deal, it's not like you guys hand out cyanide flavored kool-aid each year or force anyone to read this material or be certain ways.  That doesn't change that in loose ways the qualities I just quoted and used to build that Above List are enough, to me, and many others, to qualify the group with the label Cult.

While some call the Ra Material 'freeing' others have called it 'hellish' in that it posits a form of nihilistic existence, and has posited that we have free will but that free will can be superseded, meaning we don't have absolute individual free will and what free will we do have can be infringed and manipulated, and further in some ways the description of how catalyst works paints Earth as more hellish in potential than most would like to admit to such as anger alone causing Cancer and pain being a form of teaching an entity a lesson.

Continuing on with more points, last I heard, there are some in L/L who have Executive Decisions over the others who also make up the group, that's a form of authority and those whom have that authority are arguably very charismatic.  Don was rather controlling of Carla some would argue.  Thought Reform in the form of Spiritual Awakening aka Initiation does occur to some who are exposed to the Ra Material, while not done personally by other members (unless you count some accusing others of things like murder for eating meat) this is another loose example of the potential available to be used to call the group by the label, 'cult'.  There is a lack of hierarchy only in that the next step down from the people with exclusive executive decision is a bunch of people being trained how to channel, then underneath that a bunch of people interested in the channelings...  Wow...Sigh...The more I explain it the less I can tell myself this isn't a cult...  It is in it's own always and ever the same unique way.

I wonder what Rick Ross would say about the dynamics of this group and whether or not it can be qualified as a cult, peaceful or otherwise.  

I wish I could copy and paste from .pdf files...  Oh well, I guess I derailed my own thread to argue that I'm hanging out with a bunch of like minded people behaving certain ways to adhere to their belief system derived from the given Material that brought this group together.

Oh yeah, the word 'cult' used to be a lot more casual, it became really prominent during the 'Satanic Panic' years of the 1980s. However historically it was often used to just describe secular groups in particular relating to deities which is why in archaeology there is lots of mention of cults that is not the same as the modern cult-fear.

(10-16-2017, 12:23 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeah, the word 'cult' used to be a lot more casual, it became really prominent during the 'Satanic Panic' years of the 1980s.

Sorry, a bit off-topic - you hopefully mean the so-called 'Satanic Panic' years - that these groups/networks, call them cults or whatever you like, exist (and thus does organized ritual/occult abuse, and DID as a result of these and other forms or extreme abuse), shouldn't be in question anymore, so there was never a 'Satanic Panic', at least not generally speaking (individual cases of overly concerned or otherwise preoccupied parents and copycats aside).

-`ღ´-

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:What a useful list to organize this post with, thank you for posting it!  Don't mind if I just use it to help organize my explanation.

1: Cult members sometimes do not associate their group as being a cult.

2: Ra is a very charismatic leader and without her word would not have formulated the material that has drawn so many into this group.

3: The Ra Material has a well known effect on some people of causing a 'spiritual awakening' which in some ways can be equated to indoctrinating one into a new way of life, in this case, a Spiritual Life.

4: It is my understanding that Don during the time of the Ra Material basically had Carla on a leash during the escapades with the 5D Entity, this is arguably a form of exploitation by Don to pretty much protect that which he needed to continue performing the ritual needed to channel this material.  That's ignoring the exploitation by Ra of Carla's willingness to channel Ra at her own free will choice even if right up to the point of her Death, which fits with a leader exploiting one who believes in said leader.  That is also ignoring how Jim and Carla basically had to have sex in lieu of Carla being with her partner, Don, just to 'charge her' to do Don's desire to channel Ra for further questioning at Carla's consensual expense.

5: Some groups may not fit the definition of a cult, but may pose potential risks for participants: Some examples of this with regards to the Ra Material, I have seen people, and seen people talk about seeing people, of after reading the Ra Material pretty much losing their minds to ideas of being haunted by negative entities, other's have posited wild stories citing the Material as their proof that they are being manipulated by discarnate negative entities.  There's also people who have become damaged psychologically from this material, coming to believe themselves to be greater or lesser than who they really are, even weaving a narrative using information from the Ra Material to rationalize it.  Some people believe they are many great characters from history, other people believe they do not even come from this reality, and some believe that they are actively 'jumping' through various realities based solely on making loose connections to synchronicities and their personal beliefs engendered by the core philosophy of the Law of One with it's outer teachings of metaphysics.  Finally, the Ra Material provides 'teachings' (indoctrination's some might say) of how to properly be as a Wanderer trying to polarize in certain ways, which is further Ra Material speak for behaving certain ways.

6: There is a keen lack by anyone to try and attempt to contact Ra again, as if scared of what this might entail or disbelieving in the ability to do so again, but whatever it might be, there is a total lack of acceptance or at least desire of this notion, which can loosely be equated to a lack of tolerance for this line of reasoning beyond hearing it out then shooting it down.

7: Unreasonable Fears occur in some who read this Material, as said above, it mostly manifests as people believing they are being harassed, assaulted, and manipulated by invisible malevolent entities.  Further for some, such as myself personally, this Material has exacerbated a fear of the outside world, specifically the chance to be met by random intense catalyst while out in it, involving a catastrophe occurring in my personal life, not so much the entire world.  To further point out, many people of this group for a long time believed in a 'sudden shift' event in 2011-2012 because of the information found in the Ra Material, which is in some ways for some people a cause to make them fear that date, as the only way to become harvested (or even go through Harvest) is for the person to pretty much die first with few exceptions.

8: There is no legitimate reason to leave behind the Law of One, and to do so while not looked down upon, would possibly appear strange to others who live adamantly by this Philosophy.

9: Many members have related stories of abuse in their childhoods, and while not caused by the group specifically, it is seemingly a natural occurrence according to the Ra Material for one to become traumatized during intense polarization, of which they offer the information or teachings of how to perform such an act.  This can lead to people abusing themselves, pushing themselves to be ways that result in their being traumatized.  Such stories are not far and few, they occasionally pop up where a 'sufficiently polarizing person' is suddenly 'afflicted with something'.  Carla was in Pain, Don became mentally unstable, others say they were being manipulated by invisible entities, and others have said wilder things.

10: There is documentation of Don's suicide, and of his keeping Carla close by at all times when he felt her life was in danger, and further some speculate that Don was in ways abusive in how he handled Carla.

11: At least for me personally, I can say that since discovering the Ra Material I have felt a keen sense of 'I can never be as good as those entities of Love and Light', which can be translated to never feeling good enough.  I often feel that way when posting here on the forum too, like I can never explain myself good enough.  I imagine I'm not the only one who experiences this.

12: Ra is always right, except when Ra points out they are wrong, at least, the majority of drawn in readers will undoubtedly listen to what Ra has to say, but one (or possibly a few) poster(s) has pointed out several areas where Ra was incorrect, and this was rationalized with mathematical translation errors and faulty contact tuning.  Hence, Ra typically is not wrong on purpose.

13: Ra for many is a 'truth' source, and despite their teachings of discovering truth on the inner self, nonetheless is what most people of this group refer back to when they are in search of Truth.  You can tell a man to fish, you can even teach him how to fish, but if you're the master fishermen he will want to see your fish that you've caught.

14: You provided me a list to organize all of this information upon while others are in denial of this group having the qualities to be properly identified at least as a peaceful cult.  You don't need to identify as belonging to this group if being a part of a cult in other's people minds bothers you, but overall there would be many who upon observation would categorize this group as a cult irregardless of our open and accepting nature as a group.

Christianity started out with a set of teachings that people felt to be truth, that they behaved accordingly to, it was a cult.  This 'Philosophy' isn't very much far away enough to be unable to be classified with the designation 'cult'.

A Cult is not evil, I am not assigning the attribute of evil to this group when I say that it can be classified as a Cult.  The word Cult is not a stigma to me, so when I assign that observable identifier to this group, do realize it's more so for my own rationalization to remind myself that there is those who believe in one thing, and then there's me/us, who believe in some crazy One Infinite thing.

I'm sorry the term upset you guys, but in my eyes this group qualifies enough so to be identifiable with that label.  I don't see why that's a big deal, it's not like you guys hand out cyanide flavored kool-aid each year or force anyone to read this material or be certain ways.  That doesn't change that in loose ways the qualities I just quoted and used to build that Above List are enough, to me, and many others, to qualify the group with the label Cult.

While some call the Ra Material 'freeing' others have called it 'hellish' in that it posits a form of nihilistic existence, and has posited that we have free will but that free will can be superseded, meaning we don't have absolute individual free will and what free will we do have can be infringed and manipulated, and further in some ways the description of how catalyst works paints Earth as more hellish in potential than most would like to admit to such as anger alone causing Cancer and pain being a form of teaching an entity a lesson.

Continuing on with more points, last I heard, there are some in L/L who have Executive Decisions over the others who also make up the group, that's a form of authority and those whom have that authority are arguably very charismatic.  Don was rather controlling of Carla some would argue.  Thought Reform in the form of Spiritual Awakening aka Initiation does occur to some who are exposed to the Ra Material, while not done personally by other members (unless you count some accusing others of things like murder for eating meat) this is another loose example of the potential available to be used to call the group by the label, 'cult'.  There is a lack of hierarchy only in that the next step down from the people with exclusive executive decision is a bunch of people being trained how to channel, then underneath that a bunch of people interested in the channelings...  Wow...Sigh...The more I explain it the less I can tell myself this isn't a cult...  It is in it's own always and ever the same unique way.

I wonder what Rick Ross would say about the dynamics of this group and whether or not it can be qualified as a cult, peaceful or otherwise.  

I wish I could copy and paste from .pdf files...  Oh well, I guess I derailed my own thread to argue that I'm hanging out with a bunch of like minded people behaving certain ways to adhere to their belief system derived from the given Material that brought this group together.

It always amazes me how two people can have such vastly different experiences from reading the same text, and I think you were taking some liberties with the truth in your extrapolation, but you seem quite convinced of your argument, and if that's how you see it, I won't attempt to convince you otherwise.

I would however like to point out some perceived flaws in your extrapolation. If some people have adverse reactions to the material, it isn't a reflection on the material or LL. You can't attempt to erase the human element from any sub-culture, people are complex beings and psychology is messy business, so you can't point to... say... an individual case of someone who is prone to paranoia for example, and say "look, this is what effect the material has on someone"...

I was also surprised when you described the material as nihilistic. Nihilism posits that life has no intrinsic meaning or value, which is exactly the opposite of the philosophy contained in the material. But I think the thing I wish to touch on more than anything in your post, was this:

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:At least for me personally, I can say that since discovering the Ra Material I have felt a keen sense of 'I can never be as good as those entities of Love and Light', which can be translated to never feeling good enough.  I often feel that way when posting here on the forum too, like I can never explain myself good enough.  I imagine I'm not the only one who experiences this.

Ra tells us that each entity is of infinite worth. It doesn't matter where you are in your evolution, it doesn't matter where I am in my evolution. The purpose of a piece of music or a symphony isn't to get it over and done with as quickly as possible, it is to enjoy and experiences every phase. Ra gives a nice grand overview, but evolution simply isn't linear like that. You don't open your red chakra like flicking a light switch, then orange, then yellow, in neat little steps like baking a cake. It goes round and round, fail and fail and fail again. Dead end after dead end. The reason it keeps your interest, is because it's difficult, but also very interesting. The game needs to be worth the candle. That's what the Ra material did for me, it made the game worth the candle. They described a creation that was beyond my wildest imagination.

I don't compete with others, or compare myself to them. This is my adventure, and I am enjoying my free will in playing it just the way I want to. I am not overly concerned with things like graduating or polarising as quickly as possible, because deep down I trust the process, and I can't really know what my evolutionary level is anyway. When I know a little better, I try and do a little better. If I fail again, I dust myself off and look forward to the next surprise or chapter, but I have never lost interest. This adventure is infinitely interesting and exciting to me.

My personal issue with spiritual communities is that it has that inauthentic feel to it, because people act in a certain way because they think it's right to act that way. I call it "imitating Jesus"... it is hollow and there is no spiritual evolution in imitation. Alan Watts alluded to as much when he said this "Nothing is really more inhuman than human relations based on morals. When a man gives bread in order to be charitable, lives with a woman in order to be faithful, eats with a Negro in order to be unprejudiced, and refuses to kill in order to be peaceful, he is as cold as a clam. He does not actually see the other person. Only a little less chilly is the benevolence springing from pity, which acts to remove suffering because it finds the sight of it disgusting. But there is no formula for generating the authentic warmth of love."

The Ra material is simply the same message that has been taught throughout the ages by enlightened ones, and the other sources serve as equal inspiration to me. If you go back to the Upanishads, you see the same message, or Zen, or Daoism, etc. That's what Ra themselves said: "a different slant on information which is always and ever the same". No exclusivity, no special status. The reason I think it has been so earth shattering for some, is because Ra made contact with the West, people indoctrinated by the Abrahamic religions, which is very restricting, repressive and guilt inducing. So that's why I think it has been so freeing for many, because it felt like shackles falling off. For the first time, you are not some lowly creature on probation here in a hostile world which makes no sense, it makes perfect sense and you can relax, create and love, and know that you are of infinite worth, and however long it takes to evolve, is how long it takes. No burning in hell and fear based nonsense like that.

YinYang that was absolutely beautiful!! I'm copying and pasting that to read again from time to time, thanks.

It amazes me how cult affiliates shift the responsibility brought on from cult material to the people exposed to the cult information.

Some perceive the Ra Material differently than others, some see it as nihilistic, that the whole point of Creation is to just experience, there's no goal, nothing long term to reach for but an ever-changing arbitrary differentiation of experiences.  For some that is akin to having no point to creation, nihilism.

Now I find it interesting you quote Ra saying things I know so well enough to point out my flawed views.  Perchance did it occur to you that human psychology is a messy business?  I know it did so using my personal experience to dismiss my personal view is quite, psychologically, a messy business.

They described a Creation that makes me perceive Creator as Lover/Monster.  For all the light, there is equal darkness.

You're competing your version of your belief of this material's surrounding group with my own observation that there's enough overlap to identify the group with the label cult.  As if that were bad somehow to you.  I don't understand why I have to defend an opinion that others have been much nastier in throwing out when all I said was 'there's enough to call this group cult related' and then using a list trying to disprove that, posted the relevant overlapping reasons to prove my point.

I also used to be like you, it gets to a point in life where you realize that to do what this material asks of you to 'graduate' is akin to throwing yourself in fire to save a person getting roasted over it.  You'll incur trauma, you'll be focused on by malevolent spirits, greater and harder catalyst get thrown at you.  You need to be this truly deeply "good" person.  I don't believe many people as human's are capable of maintaining that even with a mentality like your own because again, you said it yourself, psychology is a messy business.

For me, this adventure is an illusion, and I'm tired of being played by it with cult related repeated information of why it's important when it's apparently not even real and the only gain anything gets from the human cannon fodder that takes the brunt of the consequences permanently is the human inhabited by the soul.  It gets the polarization, the wisdom, the love, the human gets traumatized and used and abused and is asked to "love" that for the opportunities they provide to the soul.

If you believe that quote, to do better to do better is cold because it's ingenuine, I am really sorry because this world will soon be an ice age for you.  The point that matters is to do better, period.  Genuine or not, every little icy move to manipulate something to a better configuration to help another is as valid as the warm spontaneous act of doing so when it's not trying to make it better for the self but another.

Most people change, is anyone here the same from before they ever read the Ra Material?  You say Ra says, well what did you used to say before you knew Ra?

So you also admit that the Ra Material is earth shattering for some.  So the catalyst to cause those to become mentally afflicted is not just by their self, the Material was catalyst.

For the first time I saw through the message of the Ra Material I recognized a fanciful heavenly looking hell portrayed as paradise here on Earth where all is well even when you're trying to be murdered by invisible demons and that the universe is setting up tragedy for you to learn from and when you lose a leg all is well and when we kill another all is well because this is an illusion and the soul is safe and sound.

This material is displaced from the human reality.  All is not well for the human.  The human isn't even real, we're programmed machine vehicles that souls use to experience an acceleration of their own polarity.  Going into wars, fights, slavery, Being raped, tortured, and murdered, raping, torturing, and murdering, the catalyst list is a long one and some of the things on it beg to differ with that notion that for human's all is well.   Love your killer, your rapist, your torturer, that is the goal for the human that is soon after killed.  The soul moves on and gets healed and makes sense of it all in a good happy place.  The human gets buried, rots, and decays and is in all senses of their identity, nothing more than a fading memory in the minds of the living, and an experience to learn from in the minds of souls.

I could point out the dark underbelly of the reality posited by this Material further and further but my point is that you see a potato, I see a pohtahtoh.  You don't see how others can call this all cult related. I do.  You are in denial of this possibility, I regrettably have embraced the reality of it to no joy of my own...

I can defend my opinions just as well as anyone else, going on and on, and I don't want to go on and on because I don't want to spoil the joys you've stumbled upon any further than I might already have, so after any further comments you might have so as not to leave you out of the say, as I would enjoy hearing what you have to say in return since I know my views are the lesser agreed upon ones, I'd like to conclude towards an agreement to disagree as per if this is all capable of fitting the title of cult related.

The reason for the dissonance is the strong emotional charge to the word "cult". It has a negative emotional connotation. The reason for this is because the experience embedded in our social memory which is relating to "cults" is painful and difficult, usually containing trauma. These are experiences of slavery, where people have had their lives and the lives of their families and loved ones destroyed.

The reason why people have been through these horrible experiences involving groups identifying themselves as cults, is because typically these are negatively-oriented groups of individuals creating negative environments of control and enslavement. We all know that L/L Research, and the people who embody this organization are the polar opposite of that. This is a positive group. It's structure is like an orb or column of light, radiating out love and aid to those who are able to feel that love, and react to it. I think of it like, these people are helping others go out and be the absolute best selves that they can be in the world. And not only that, but they are connecting people to the real love of the Source and the angelic presences that are around us in the larger universe. Regardless of what they call themselves. On the other hand, the negative mystery schools and organizations are pyramid shaped, out of necessity of the concentration of power.

Now it's true that if we are able to appreciate the meaning of the language, then we would only interpret your sentence as:
"No offense, please do realize many people consider the Ra Material and the affiliated group to be like a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal."

But there is a reason you are using the word "cult". And I think it's because you feel like some of the negative emotional connotation of that word holds true for some people's experience of the Law of One material.

Most of the later points you made on that numbered list seem to be influenced by the way you feel about a particular catalyst which you revealed when you said:

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:At least for me personally, I can say that since discovering the Ra Material I have felt a keen sense of 'I can never be as good as those entities of Love and Light', which can be translated to never feeling good enough.  I often feel that way when posting here on the forum too, like I can never explain myself good enough.  I imagine I'm not the only one who experiences this.

I do agree with your assessment of Don's interactions with Carla which you made in some of the earlier points of that numbered list. As an aside, there may be some good discussion there, or a point to be found.


But what you say above about feeling like you're inferior or that you will never live up to those "entities of Love and Light", and what you say here:

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:I also used to be like you, it gets to a point in life where you realize that to do what this material asks of you to 'graduate' is akin to throwing yourself in fire to save a person getting roasted over it.

basically to me sounds like the same basic fear-based belief that is the basis the major religions like Christianity and Islam. There is that constant feeling of inferiority to the gods, whether Jehovah-God of distorted Christianity or Muhammad of distorted Islam. There is the belief that one is born unclean or a sinner, and unworthy.

If you're identifying this belief structure as being associated with L/L Research material, then I have to say I wouldn't agree with that assessment. 

If you're interacting with people who struggle with this belief structure who are also attracted to L/L Research material, then I would ascribe that to the grand tapestry of life and the path of seeking and awakening of each individual, before I would attribute such a belief structure to L/L Research's material.

I agree with what Ankh wrote in this post in another thread,

Ankh Wrote:I do believe too that this material is one of the most pure and undistorted sources available on Earth. And to answer your question, just *because of it being just that* it contains *that particular light or energy* which, when it enters the seeker and awakening within it that inner same light, needs to be balanced. So, if there is in the seeker any distortions which are in the direct opposition compared to the teach/learning of the LOO, then these need to be balanced before any progression can be made.

and I think it applies to this situation. The Law of One material offers a window into Reality. How the person reacts to it tells a lot about their state of being. If one is optimistic, it could confirm their optimism. If one is cynical, it could confirm their cynicism. If one has a somewhat nihilistic viewpoint on the world, well I'm not gonna say that the revelation of the bigger picture of Reality would help to make that person feel any better about being a human. In my experience, people who have a nihilistic viewpoint tend to see everything in that way. I guess that's the same as any of us, interpreting experience through our unique viewpoints and distortions.


The thing is, for the awakening seeker, these trials and hardships and this "being focused on by malevolent spirits, greater and harder catalyst getting thrown at you", would happen at a certain point of their development, with or without the aid that comes from freely choosing to educate one's self with this material. None of us are in a victim position here. It's a very difficult mindset to break out of. It's something I've been thinking of writing a new thread about, actually, because it seems so deeply ingrained into humanity, into our social memory.

Point being, I see people coming across this amazing gift of information by their own free will, and experiencing that connection to real, loving individuals. And then those people turn around and complain about shortcomings in the material, or misquote and misapply concepts from the material, or even worse they start talking bad about Ra and the Confederation and these unspeakably profound loving energies and I wonder, how can these people really have this viewpoint? I'm not trying to single you out. I see it happening all over the forums, and it comes and goes over the years. Same with the victim consciousness. I see it everywhere. It's endemic in the truth seeking awakening community or whatever you want to call it.


I want to get to the bottom of why you feel the inferiority and inability to explain yourself clearly. Because I want you to be connected to your highest and best self so you can feel the love that I do.


All that aside, to get to your main point of the thread, the CIA document. I have to say that is amazing stuff. I've seen several of these sorts of declassified documents from the 60s and 80s. The information within them is always intriguing and often shocking and horrifying. I'd hate to imagine what sort of experiments they did with hypnosis. But it does seem like they mapped out the process of meditating to reach deeper states of consciousness and were able to scientifically verify the process occurring and were able to repeat it. And yet it just blows my mind that I'm sitting here at a computer typing this in 2017 and the info in this document has only been partially publicly disclosed in the form of mainstream articles about scientific studies touting the benefits of meditation, the articles of course containing no actual information from the studies.


What do you think page 25 was about? Seems to me like it could have gone on to describe some pretty deep stuff the way the writer was talking about the holy trinity right before. It's exactly analogous to the trinity described in the Law of One material with Free Will, Love, and Light. I mean, that sh*t got straight up religious there for a second. In a CIA document about a gadget that enables transcendental meditation, from 1983. Which I'm reading and talking to you about in 2017. This is ridiculous.

(10-15-2017, 07:58 PM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]I find it interesting that this information was classified at the time of this document, yet the Ra Material speaks, although not coherently or sequentially, about the mechanism metaphysically behind this Kundalini Rising process through the balancing of the Chakras.  It is at least to me, another example in how I might doubt the Ra Material in parts, but others parts were clearly ahead of their time in the disseminated information which proves subjectively to me that parts of this Material are indeed more than just mundane writings by a group of cultists.  (No offense, please do realize many people consider the Ra Material and the affiliated group Cult related.)

Interesting but very different perspective as I found the Ra material to one of the only sources of coherent information as to the energy centers. The one thing that drew me to the Ra material, more so than other spiritual practices, was the detailed and expanded explanation of the energy centers and why their balance was important for healing, spiritual evolution, or other abilities such magical workings, and overall how the energy centers fit into the big picture.

To be fair, with the way "cult" is defined at least via google search, a cult could be considered any spiritual or religious belief that isn't mainstream - "a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister": https://www.google.com/search?q=cult&oq=...e&ie=UTF-8

Quote:cult

kəlt/
noun
noun: cult; plural noun: cults

1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
   "the cult of St. Olaf"
   
   • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
     "a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
     synonyms:
     sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction
     "a religious cult"
     
   • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
     "a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
     synonyms:
     obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of
     "the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"
     
   • a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, especially among a particular section of society.
     "a cult film"
     
     

Taken from that perspective, if you desire to be mainstream or normal, and that's why you brought up the cult concept, it's understandable, as the desire to be normal is a non-polarizing belief that many of us grew up with. It both limits and protects us - limits us because normal is just another way to peg ourselves to the average person, which limits our potential as we try to move closer to average - and protects us because if we're an average person then we won't do really horrible or too self-destroying things. 

Once sufficient inner work is done (re: energy centers) to be confident in oneself and in the universe and in of their abilities and their discernment, you will find the desire to be normal begins to fall away, and you follow the path where it takes you, knowing that the reward is worth the risk (kind of like falling in love...).

-----

That being said, great find on the paper. Love seeing the CIA being more interested than many left-brained 'mainstream' people with respect to spiritual topics.

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:If you believe that quote, to do better to do better is cold because it's ingenuine, I am really sorry because this world will soon be an ice age for you.

That's actually a life lesson I borrowed from Maya Angelou , another source of inspiration for me. She said to Oprah "when you know better, you do better" when Oprah shared with her all the mistakes she had made in the past. It simply means don't beat yourself up about mistakes you made, see it as part of the growth process.

So what's this ice age business? I'm familiar with a particular group online who believes an ice age is imminent, I hope you're not mixed up with them... it would explain your dystopian outlook. Your "programmed machine" comment also makes me wonder whether you're mixed up with them, they got that from Gurdjieff.

I wish you well, Coordinate_Apotheosis. I just don't see the point in debating your dark views, because it is so far removed from my own outlook. There is also hostility in your post, which makes me wonder why you're so angry. Why are you so angry?

I would also mention that if the philosophy is so obviously negative to you, drop it, leave it behind and find something more to your liking. It's not for everyone.

(10-18-2017, 04:06 AM)YinYang Wrote: [ -> ]

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:If you believe that quote, to do better to do better is cold because it's ingenuine, I am really sorry because this world will soon be an ice age for you.

That's actually a life lesson I borrowed from Maya Angelou , another source of inspiration for me. She said to Oprah "when you know better, you do better" when Oprah shared with her all the mistakes she had made in the past. It simply means don't beat yourself up about mistakes you made, see it as part of the growth process.

So what's this ice age business? I'm familiar with a particular group online who believes an ice age is imminent, I hope you're not mixed up with them... it would explain your dystopian outlook. Your "programmed machine" comment also makes me wonder whether you're mixed up with them, they got that from Gurdjieff.

I wish you well, Coordinate_Apotheosis. I just don't see the point in debating your dark views, because it is so far removed from my own outlook. There is also hostility in your post, which makes me wonder why you're so angry. Why are you so angry?

I would also mention that if the philosophy is so obviously negative to you, drop it, leave it behind and find something more to your liking. It's not for everyone.

I'm angry cause I derailed my own thread :/
But you're right, there's hostility in my defensiveness, I apologize, and I also apologize because I am a dark minded person.  I've been that way for a long time actually if I try to trace it back, I've just had a fascination with the darkness, and most notably, I try to find the light in it.  Which is why when I read the Ra Material and they say things like we should love those trying to kill us, I can't help but feel like that advice comes from a place of darkness more than light.  But, again, since darkness is an illusion of the lesser intensity of surrounding light, it's really just light.

The ice age commentary was metaphor, for me I was back in 2014 really damn happy, I mean I looked out my window and the sacredness of creation was known, I was so thrilled and blissfully joyful that I SWEAR TO THIS DAY I saw 'Love' in the air, and was so in tune with it that I could see Catalyst approaching me before it even got to me.
The problem was however my own darkness, around 2015 I had become so enamored with the idea of being a Healer that I was trying really reaaallly hard to make myself into a better person, and at the end of all of that soul searching and interaction with my shadow self I realized that everything that I thought I knew was actually not as it seemed, as if the same theme that got me into that blissful mindset was repeating and now showing me the polar opposite, I found that I was so severely lacking in the attributes of love, light, empathy, and selflessness that it was unthinkable that I could EVER in this lifetime become the one thing I felt I wanted to be my whole life and only in 2014 realized what it was, a Healer, someone who heals the darkness and suffering all around him.

So, I don't know what group you're speaking of, I'd rather not lol, I did recently get linked by a friend to a nice thread on a skeptics forum discussing the Ra Material and it was from that...Incredibly...Horrific excuse for 'skeptical objectiveness' that pushed me to finally look and see if I was worthy of being called a Cult Member.  Also 4chan gave me a nice chewing out about how ridiculous it is for me to believe that the Tarot originated on another planet when there's supposedly much inquiry into it's origins here on Earth.  Overall a quick definition search yielded what Aaron has already posted.  It loosely does fit with our group, and please realize this.

I am apart of this group, when I call you all cult affiliates, I am calling myself a cult affiliate.  We are a strange group as to our own admissions, we follow the teachings of a SIXTH DIMENSIONAL, ALIEN BEING, who goes by an EGYPTIAN NAME, and speaks to us by POSSESSING A WOMAN AND SPEAKING THROUGH HER, albeit consensually.  Whom has a group in the US that gathers weekly to have people TRAINED to be possessed by other FIVE and FOUR DIMENSIONAL, ALIEN BEINGS, WHO FURTHER are not individuals but clumped groups of individuals acting as one individual.

That, even outside of mainstream and 'normalcy' is 'strange'.  Carla's own brother perceived it as Sinister.

So when I call us cult related, I say it in a lighthearted 'oh yeah we're kind of weird' kind of way, not a 'oh yeah we sacrifice our life force to channel spirits to instruct us on how to live' kind of way.  It's in my OP near the bottom when I stated that I do not view the Ra Material as just 'some cult related work of fiction' to paraphrase.  I even apologized for relating us to cultists because I knew it'd probably trigger someone, and it did, and it totally derailed my own thread lol...

So, I'm sorry for getting all mad at you, I'm one of those angry italian guys who goes all angry when you forget the prosciutto.  I get annoyed easily and have been known in the past to BLOW UP at something I perceive to be a misjustice or unusually dense hypocritical situation, especially when I perceive myself in another, it's like I need to jump down my own throat and bash my skull in from the inside because I'm so damn pissed at how dark and confusing and messed up I perceive everything to be some days that I don't know what else to do except GET MAD, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

And often times, it is not the right thing to do, so again.

I am sorry for blowing up on you all, for being my usual mouthy apathetic cruel self.  I promise you, it's me being much more angry at myself than any of you for my own shortcomings at, as I said, being unable to explain myself, feeling misunderstood, which is very isolating and makes me feel rather lonely, which makes me lash out for attention; for feeling like I have failed myself immensely for all the potential I might harbor in mind and spirit, and overall I just need to censor myself more over a written medium instead of just letting it all out.

I was going to respond to everyone, but when I felt like I had to defend myself such as when Aaron suggested that my use of the word cult is because of a negative connotation affiliated with my perceptions of how this material has made others suffer, it was in the OP related purely to how 'strange' we appear to even other weirdos.  And in responding I realized I was becoming hostile, again, and people like Aaron, you, and others DO NOT DESERVE THAT.  So I will hold my tongue and simply make a request.

Dear Mods, will you please split all posts relating to the discussion of whether we are cult related into its own thread so as to move this discussion there, as I am greatly fascinated by this CIA document and am so upset with my derailing my own thread that I'm getting all emotionally distressed over it and being a jerk, again.  If possible please try to cut and paste the parts of posts not pertaining to the discussion of the CIA Document if there is a mixture of subjects in a post.

@Xise, I must admit that in regards to energy centers the Ra Material is what made me realize I have an affinity for reading them in myself and others, though at a weird price of further and further disassociation from my own identity if I overuse it...Hah, that sounds crazy, or at the least, strange.  I don't regard the Ra Material as fiction, but I also try to retain a healthy skepticism as to it's COMPLETE accuracy, for instance there is a portion of the material speaking about energy transfers, and because a prior query/answer detailed kundalini in a negative entity as having the ability to 'jump' from yellow to indigo, made a later session get an edit where Ra speaks of a negative entity having a blue ray transfer, and in parenthesis it's put (Indigo?).
Human interference after the fact disrupts the 'purity' as some would call it of the Material, I can personally attest from a subjective standpoint that during my time doing chakra readings, the negative polarity entity very much so does have green and blue ray energy transfers, however I call them typically 'inversed' in that the chakra is being used in the opposite way a positive entity would utilize it.  Blue Ray of radiating truth becomes inversed towards manipulation and weaving webs, Green Ray of unconditional love becomes inversed towards total love of self over all else.  As far as the jump from yellow to indigo rays occurs with kundalini rising, it's appropriately said as the green and blue chakras do not hold kundalini at their level in a negative polarity entity so much as supplement it's use of yellow ray and orange ray energies for power, control, and manipulation of others, hence why kundalini has to jump up to indigo from yellow, it can't sit in green or blue in a negative polarity as that's not the placement a negative polarity being wants to work from vibrationally.

I however do still hold the Ra Material, and it's affiliated group responsible for those who come across it, and do not have the mental pliancy to appropriately handle the onslaught of new ways of viewing reality, it's sort of like introducing a newbie philosopher to some transcendental metaphysical concepts, when they thought everything was made of atoms, suddenly it's all made of light.  The movement to that understanding is innocent enough, but when that brings them to information such as they become vulnerable, or are told they become vulnerable, while working in said light by beings of darkness...  That can mess up some people, and I think it is a responsibility to those introducing and presenting this information to gently guide a Seeker to a mindset that helps them realize that they might freak themselves out, and psyche themselves out, and that they might come to a point where they need external help to discern their sanity from insanity.

If you present a man an artifact that fills his head with stories of real monsters, you should be responsible for how he handles that information when he can't handle it.  Not FULLY responsible mind you, but you should be told that you introduced this man to that which broke his mind, and you thus should be partly responsible in helping fix it.  But that's just me, some people are fine with teaching any one hidden knowledge and then letting them go crazy from it.  I personally am not, and believe it requires some level of 'teachers' or 'mentoring' by those such as us who have experience with this information, to make sure no one goes through what I or others have gone through, such as one day believing they are literally, not figuratively, in Hell on Earth.

I should point out Xise, I have never once in my life actually been normal.  I up through high school believed my life was 'normal', and that all shattered apart when I finally began socializing in college and realized my life was a very sheltered and isolated one of verbal and psychological abuse.  I don't know my family, I'm the only one in my Father and Mother's side born and raised outside of the East Coast of the US, I couldn't keep friends, and what friends I did have I hardly hung out with, and some of my earliest memories are of playing Super Mario Bros on NES, so my parents instead of parenting me placed me in front of electronic screens, and I used that to escape reality throughout my time in school, from blowing away 5 years on Runescape to amassing thousands of hours or game time in video games, I can't identify as normal.  I am very much so the personification, at least in my mind, of Abnormal.  Strange.  A weirdo.  Like that one song, I'm a weirdo, I don't belong here.  And as far as applying normal views to myself, I do identify as a nerd, a loser, a failure, and as such I respond to myself accordingly, with a lot of disdain for my shortcomings from losing my son to my ex to losing my best friend to dating, to losing most of my friends because I push people away because I don't want anyone to see just how dark and miserable I am from years of being told I'm a string of horrible names that culminates with me being unable to do anything good enough or right.

It is very true what they say...  That the memory of something fades, but the feelings that memory gave you, those are forever...  And I have a lot of memories of being told I can't do anything right, that I can't do anything good enough.  So.  It's no wonder that I in 2015 came to conclude after much deep soul searching and work with my shadow self that the only thing's left to find beyond my experiences from 2014 down to 2007 and further from 2007 (around when my parents divorced) to 1997 where my last memories are as a 5 year old, were an endless onslaught of the words my mother filled my mind with.  Just a string of insults.  Spoiled Rotten No Good Lazy Fat Disgusting Slob Excuse for a Human Being to name the first one that comes to mind, and there are many more from there.

So, normal for me, is very, abnormal.

@Aaron, please try not to discern some 'actual intent' to my words as I usually am either bluntly straight with them, hoping that inference and implication fills in the rest, or sarcastic and sly with my commentary for means of insult and humor.  In the OP my full intention was simply to say that I DO NOT view us as a negative connotation of the word 'cult', but rather can SEE how it could be loosely related to the 'sinister' portions of the usage of that word.  When I label this group as cultists I think of us as one of those Peace&Love Cult groups that were erupting back in 2014 on social media (that the FBI subsequently labelled as domestic terrorist groups) whom all they did each day was get together and basically pray and spread the intent of World Wide Peace and Love.  I even apologized knowing that some would be triggered by the use of the word cult/ist as if I were condemning L/L as the next Mass Suicide cult or something crazy like that.
I assure you, I wasn't.
I was attempting to discern how in my opinion, others can come to view us as a cult of a negative connotation in my subsequent response, but overall I would not identify us as inherently a negative group, but rather I view out approach and shirking of responsibility in helping others not be negatively impacted by the information this group has made available, as a negative trait to an otherwise wholly positive group.

Let me put it this way, I could be anywhere else on the internet talking about these things, but instead I'm here.  It's because this is the kindest, most peaceful place in comparison to the rest of the available forums.  I feel more comfortable and at peace here than anywhere else, even when I'm being called an animal murderer for eating already dead processed animal flesh and when I'm being called a bigot for being ignorant of the depth of oppression women have to endure, and further called other things when I argue for total equality between the sexes.  There's some oddities and issues in this group for sure, but overall they are the catalyst that we all collectively use to move forward towards a destination of light, more so than consensus, even if when a member divulges very painful opinions and is subsequently silenced instead of helped to see things differently (-cough- Earth Spirit's commentary on women -cough-).

So overall, this group has it's issues, but hey, every group does, and overall I think this group is better than any other I've yet to come across.  So I apologize for calling us all cultists, but the reality is we do fit that definition, and our dissonance to it further shows this.  We are cultists, the difference is we don't act like a typical cult, we don't demand much consensus beyond not going overboard with certain mentalities.  But as I said, we still do hold a consensus that has been used to silence and even harm other members (Melissa).  So we're not ALL love and light, and we shouldn't pretend we are if we're to heal the issues that have arisen in the past on this forum that now has it so...  Painfully slow and empty in my mind v-v

For instance, I dislike the Like function, it seems to be misused at times to 'group up in agreement' with a person without others having to post so, which slows down the forum and at times makes others feel ganged up on in my opinion, but otherwise it's a useful feature for building up each other's egos.  'oh so-and-so's liked what I posted, that makes me feel better!', when I wish people would just post so even if just to say, 'I really like this'.
If you'll look at my stats, have I liked any post?  No, I have not, but I do like many posts on this forum, why, just today I gave the funny pictures of animals thread a go through and I liked pretty much the entire thread.  Didn't click the button though, because I just don't like how it has the potential to be misused.

I've written a wall of text now so I'll cease here and hope the mods split this thread and the posts with both responses on 'the cult comment' and 'the CIA Document'.  Once done I would love to answer your question regarding my opinion of page 25, and further explore the information presented in this document with everyone who wishes to participate.

tl;dr
There's a reason I'm the way I am, I'm sorry about that. I hope mods will split this thread up into a Cult Commentary one and split up posts with both commentary on my cult comment and commentary on the OP, and wish to discuss things further in regards to the internal reality of this forum and extended group and the OP once the split is done.

Well I apologise for derailing your thread, and thanks for extrapolating your thoughts even further. I can also understand why you're angry, just look at what the world looks like. Open any news website and you will be forgiven for thinking it's all going to hell in a handbasket. Ra did mention that our species is somewhat peculiar in the fact that we evolve through trauma... "It is to be noted that among your entities a large percentage of all progression has as catalyst, trauma." Why that is the case, I simply don't know. I sometimes entertain the thought that once you've been to Earth, you get to wear a special badge, and everywhere else you travel in the universe subsequently, people go "phew! Have you been to EARTH!"

I also honestly can't tell you why the information contained in the Ra material isn't strange to me, it was simply a revelation to me. The bible's explanation of evil never made sense to me, I knew it was hogwash. So I basically turned my back on religion in my teens already, and then I just wandered in the wilderness. I had the wildest 20s of anyone I know. We were completely out of control, and all we cared about was partying. I wrapped my car around a pole one night after we had been partying the whole day, and I climbed out without a scratch. When I saw what the car looked like the next day, I knew it was impossible to have survived it. There was just nothing left of it, it was unrecognisable as a car. I had this cold shiver running down my spine when I saw it.

Did that stop us? Nope! It was a big joke! I was the anomaly! Until my best friend died in a car accident, he burned to death, and then the party was over. I started building a career and worked day and night, I was like a machine. I worked from 9 in the morning till 2 the next morning, 7 days a week, year in and year out. Started a company, sold it within 3 years. I thrived on stress, there was not a project I wouldn't take on, there was no such thing as biting off more than you can chew, you just chew faster. I ran shows in the Superbowl that took months and months of preparation, which was just one big adrenaline rush. All was going well, except, it was all so empty. I couldn't shake the feeling that it was meaningless. I would walk to my car in the parking lot at 2 in the morning after another day's work, and look up at the sky and wonder "is this it? This is just awful." One night I left the office early, 7ish, which was early for me, it was Winter, and I could smell people's fireplaces, and suddenly this extreme loneliness came over me. I'll never forget that moment. It was the most extreme emptiness I have ever felt. I cried in the car all the way home. But life had other plans for me, I wasn't gonna let go, so life made me lose it all. It all came crushing down in spectacular fashion. I ended up in the emergency room 3 times from pure stress, they called it "career woman's disease"! I look back on it now and see it as the best thing that ever happened to me.

Then a bunch of us decided to go diving in Mozambique, and that week something inside of me started coming alive again. When I was under the water, I thought to myself "you can't tell me there isn't a God, not when you look at this". I swam with dolphins, I swam next to a giant whale, and he just looked at me with that giant eye if his. I wandered through the towns in between dives, and the people were just so happy, even though they were so poor. They lived in paradise, and life was sweet for them. I thought to myself "how could I have gone so wrong? Why did I take everything so seriously?" On my last dive I lost the group, and then I spotted this perfect cross (Christian cross) in the coral, perfectly formed, and I ran my hand over it. And then I knew it was time to continue the search, I just knew I had to keep searching. For what? I didn't know. I was light in spirit, and relaxed, and invigorated. And then I started ferociously reading, book after book after book, searching for answers. So the day I discovered the Ra material, was a turning point for me. I was just so overjoyed. I read it 3 times in succession. Suddenly life was beautiful. This Oneness concept was something wholly new to me, but I just knew that I had the truth in my hands.

So yeah, you can say the material was earth shattering for me. Suddenly I could read other esoteric texts, and understand it. I went further back and found older philosophical texts, and saw the same message. Suddenly the Gospels made sense to me. I tell this story to let you know that after my experience with discovering this material, I am no longer lost in the wilderness. I owe my life to Don, Carla and Jim, for giving me this gift. I hope I bump into them one day in some other reality, to thank them. I hope you get your groove back, and I hope you remember to keep your sense of humour. This reality is quite bizarre anyway, we are all clinging to a ball flying through space in some galaxy somewhere in the universe, we don't even know where. Drop the seriousness, it's not serious. Stick it on the wall if you forget, nothing is serious. That's the biggest lesson Alan Watts taught me. It's a game, a stage play, an adventure, and it's fun. Enjoy it! I shared this because when I see someone who is in possession of the same gift as me, this material, who is so disheartened, it just perplexes me. I really hope you get that happiness back you had in 2014, it's a good place to be, and it comes from living in faith. Living in faith makes all the magic happen.

Sorry for derailing your thread!

PS. I also don't like the "like" button.

Thank you Jade, for the split~

Hey YinYang, you weren't the one who derailed my thread, I'm the one that did that when I made a big post focusing on an issue completely separate from my OP.

I just wanted to give you that apology, in the form of an explanation...Sort of like an Apology of CA, using the old school definition of apology as an 'explanation of'.

If anyone has any further desire to discuss the responsibilities we may have as affiliates to this information, or any further commentary on other's viewing us as a cult group, I am gladly open to such.

For me, I just want any outsides looking in to know that even though we may appear crazy, act crazy (at times), and talk about crazy things, we're just like anyone else with our own crazy personal lives driving us to crazy moments in life where all we can do is be awestruck at the wonder that is the game of the illusion we now enjoy.  Even if it at times is very gross and disturbing, as we do not shy away from looking at the darkness as much as the light, or at least not all of us...
So, we might look in some ways dangerous, but the last thing any one here would ever want is for anyone to be hurt or harmed.

I think I can somewhat adequately speak for most people here when I say, the only thing that we want is for everyone to find peace, happiness, love, and self forgiveness.

We might be a 'cult' but we're not going to tell anyone what they can or can't do in their lives or while with us (beyond trying to not bash on each other), and further the only thing we want above all else, is for everyone to know unconditional love.

So like, try not to judge us too hard please...

I couldn't be fased by others' opinions, and I have never felt the need to defend the Ra material. It isn't in need of defence. It is either for you or it isn't, and if it isn't, no worries and find something that's more to your liking. Organised religion is crazy to me, but if that's someone's thing, then so it is. I mean no one seems to think that Jonah and the fish is crazy, or God asking Abraham to kill his son, or Moses opening the Red Sea with his staff. I mean if you wanna talk about crazy, the bible wins hands down! Not to mention the Book of Revelations...

Ra Wrote:It is also to be noted that an adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions, and bonds of other-selves.

Not that I consider myself an adept by any stretch of the imagination, lol, but at least I have stopped worrying about others' opinions a long time ago. That's just a recipe for unhappiness. That skeptics discussion you mentioned earlier was an entertaining read, but I'm afraid as long as they demand proof, they will always end up with short end of the stick.

Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The vibratory distortion of sound, faith, is perhaps one of the stumbling blocks between those of what we may call the infinite path and those of the finite proving/understanding.

You are precisely correct in your understanding of the congruency of faith and intelligent infinity; however, one is a spiritual term, the other more acceptable perhaps to the conceptual framework distortions of those who seek with measure and pen.

The world will always match your view of it. If you see it as a hostile place not to be trusted, it will show you exactly that. It will show you what you believe. I had this discussion recently with a person who has a bit of a persecution complex, and I said "if you believe you are persecuted, then you will be persecuted. That's how powerful you are as a creator". Everyone's personal worlds are conforming to their view of it. Someone who believes they are constantly harassed by malevolent entities, will be. They made that reality come true. To me, that's the magic of the adept, he/she knows they're actively creating it, whereas the rest still needs to wake up to that fact. Most people think things just randomly 'happen to them', not realising they're actively creating it by their thoughts. That's the magic. Thoughts are things, powerful things! You create consciously or unconsciously, but you constantly create.

It happened with the Ra contact as well. When Don became worried and afraid, he lost his faith. It can happen to the best of us under those circumstances.

Quote:Ra: You are dancing thoughts.

I love this little clip by Terrence Mckenna:

Terrence Mckenna Wrote:Well I keep saying, de-emphasise anxiety. Reassure people. You need people who's saying "you know I'm really scared. I'm scared about my job, I'm scared about my rela... I'm scared-scared-scared." And say "don't worry. You don't know enough to worry. That's God's truth. Who do you think you are that you should worry, for crying out loud? I mean, it's a total waste of time. It presupposes such a knowledge of the situation, that it is in fact a form of hubris. You know? What you do is just pay your bills, and you know, pack heat if you need to and DON'T WORRY! That's all. Worry is praying to the devil. Worry is betting against yourself. You know, Wei Po Yang, a great Chinese Daoist, who wrote many-many commentaries on the I-Ching, he was asked at the end of his life what was his conclusion of a life of studying the I-Ching, and he said "worry is preposterous". That was it.

I hope you create for yourself a wonderful day today, Coordinate_Apotheosis, and tomorrow, and going forward! You will worry as long as you need to worry, and then one day you will realise how preposterous it is, and just laugh. And then you will be in a position to console others. This doesn't stem from ignorance about the dark side, I'm not ignorant of the dark side. Let them who are wicked, be wicked still. Let them who lie, keep lying still. Let them who deceive, keep deceiving still. Respect their chosen path, and leave them behind.

Ah, to not care of another's thoughts.  The interesting paradox of being selfishly selfless in considering another's opinions.  You will find, sadly, that the state of altered consciousness first attained from this information is not one that lasts in regards to persistent intensity.    You remind me of myself back in 2014, something that I have been trying to come to terms with is if such an altered state of consciousness is worthy of being called as per the reference from my original OP, a form of 'psychosis'?

While I was in what some termed an 'Initiation' I was highly aware of myself at the time in some ways, very conscientious was how I used to word it, to remain conscientious of myself to better be through myself the way I wanted to be.  Yet, for me I had the interesting stumbling block of believing too easily, it was like a rubber band effect, I stretched myself way out there with many polarizations of a positive nature, and then it all snapped back and I one day just couldn't maintain the ease I once had with being conscientious.  Sort of like I woke up, was very alert and awake, and became drowsy and slumped back into a half-awake state.

I tried very hard to try and...Map out what it was I did to attain that state of bliss back in 2014, I even have a journal, that if I recall I posted on this very forum...  I will search for it really fast.
https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...ht=journal

And the most notable thing I recognized looking back and reading it, was that I wasn't even able to focus on the 'How', I was so caught up in the 'Now', and even in my personal journal, I look back to the year 2014 entries and find that I was practically in my own reality of just pure bliss.

I remember...It was like...  I was a sun, in the darkness of...The reality of Earth, and I remember that I would see people, and their suffering hanged over them like a miasma or cloud, and I just remember how much it bothered me that they weren't happy.  I wanted to make everyone happy, but the more I tried, the more I did, the more I recognized my own limitations, and eventually realized the futility of trying harder and harder pushing myself to be better and better, when all it did was introduce me to unhappier catalyst until I had to face the reality that all the kindness I could give to the world would not actually change anything, not alone anyways, and I was extremely alone back then.  Working from 10pm to 6am sometimes 6+ days a week, most of my friend's disappeared, I didn't even see my mother for more than 30 minutes every few days, and overall I just went from a place of blissful solitude to despairing isolation.

The entire time of my life though, was the happiest...Considering nothing important happened externally, I had found happiness.  And, I guess it had an expiration date cause it didn't just go away, it rotted into a lot of hatred for how cruel reality can be, and how everyone justifies it it with philosophical rationalizations of idiosyncrasies of a collective consensus, one way or another, whether it be with a lie such as Life Isn't Fair, or a logical deduction such as, Death is intertwined in Life in relationship to Survival.  Of it all, I can't help but feel that we have pushed aside the point that is simply, to me, is it Just to use mortals in these kinds of games and illusions?  Is it like arguing that one should feel sympathy for a video game character?  Whom for all intents and purposes is programmed to respond the way it does, and thus not something to worry about before the main objective of the point of that game?

I appreciate the quote you gave, it's interesting to note that before we had even been given much more than a simple label, Ra had equated Intelligent Infinity to Faith, and in that particular quote it is implied that the more fully and absolutely in depth and complete consciousness one realizes 'The Truth' that is the ever deeper experiences of the Law of One setup by the Law of One to experience the Law of One, one eventually can do things like transform rock with thought, and yet they say there are built in limitations such as a 3D being cannot become Godlike by activating their higher density overlying bodies.

So, I think there is more to it than simply Believing can imbue one with partial omnipotence.  I think it is a concept that cannot be underestimated, that our belief is absolutely necessary for this things to work, and that the work of faith can become a stumbling block for those of a more logical objective nature.

It was for me, but I was...An exception it seems.  I first read the Law of One and with most of my being believed it without question, but there's this deep furious curiosity of mine to KNOW.  And so, determined to KNOW if this was real and true, re-read it all, and made a note of the instructions given, and began to perform them.  The magic of the mirror, the magic of the otherself, the magic of the I.  Then to see that magic, the sacredness of that One Infinite manifestation, myself, another, my surroundings, the air I breath and the space I exist within and upon, and beyond.  I began being nice to people, doing things despite their inconvenience, sacrificing my time and energy for others.  All of that, it lead me to one day realize I was so profoundly satisfied and at peace and just blissfully joyous at what I was experiencing, the serenity, serendipity, the wisdom my mind was capable of producing, the humbleness, sincerity, I was surprising myself, and to this day I call that moment of realization a moment of recognizing my success in being as my soul would be, through my mortal body.  Then from there, it was like a peak and I was struggling to keep up to it's level, and things began to...Slip.  I began to see things in new ways, and began to understand the natures of darkness as I began refining my own understanding of myself trying to put myself into such a configuration as to be an energetic healer.
It was like a gradual decline, the kundalini maxed out, I was at the gateway, the violet ray in kundalini, but when I realized it, I realized how far I had come from who I once was, I realized I had rapidly changed.  Then, while trying to know myself all over again, found there was a profound darkness inside that I thought I had taken care of before now re-emerging with much more ferocity than before.  It felt like I had this desire to just kill everything, because in the end it all appeared futile and pointless, and worse at the time even seemed like a play of hell, a creation of torment and deep sorrow and suffering, all to teach one how to better love.

The illogical of it all returned, and I went from finding my faith without missing a step to questioning if my faith was morally, ethically, appropriate and 'Just', or if it was a rationalization of darkness and evil, as if to say we were being taught to forgive not only ourselves, but those who had made this reality, as if for their own safety instead of our own.  In a way, when we discovered we could damage a soul with a nuclear weapon, a whole new reality of war emerged as a possibility for 3D.  If humanity knew it was a giant game for souls to use to learn from, would we all be okay with it, or would we want revenge for all the suffering programmed into our lives?  Would we fight the invisible?

Many ways I have tried to say this is acceptable, this is forgivable, but then you move beyond your individual self as you perform work with your shadow self, you move into a planetary consciousness, and begin taking on the darkness of the collective world.

That darkness, should not be understated, should not be ignored, and should not be reasoned away, as if doing so will make it end.  It will not.  When I found out that just a few years ago a census managed to figure out that AT LEAST 50 MILLION children were being sex trafficked at that very moment, just the one's known about were 50 million.
Assuming it's not one person per child you still end up with at least another 10 or so million people who have helped that happen.  Of that 10 million they probably know others who help manage the movement of those children and coverage of those movements, you end up with a disturbingly big web of darkness that expands much wider than we are comfortable to think about.

Then that's ignoring also the constant array of rapes and murders occurring worldwide and all of the people connected to those instances, I have found that while it is compared to 8 billion, a small percentage of that, it is still enough to not only affect the father and mother of each stolen child (at least 100 million people right there) but it also effects everyone who knows those parents, and assuming a mother and father still have a mother and father, that's 200 million, plus one sibling each, 300 million, if the sibling has a partner and offspring, 500 million.

There is a ripple effect from those dark actions that must be addressed.  It's not worth looking away from for me, the realization, the reality, that is that on this planet I live on, there is horrible things happening, and innocent people who do not deserve what they are being put through.

It keeps me up at night, it makes me struggle with my faith that all is well and will be okay, and it makes me question if this philosophy is meant for those looking to transcend humanity rather than help it live on and prosper into the far reaches of the future.  Will we even be around in another thousand years?  If not, is it because of our destructive darkness that we failed to avoid extinction?

It's why I say, I am distressed with being unable to do more, to be of aid to those 50 million children alone, never mind their families.  Being unable to find the people aiding those things, and to put them through a justice system, to make them learn my own self-created lesson that you can't just do what you want with whoever you want however you want.  You don't get to just help rape someone and get away with it.  You don't get to just kill someone and get away with it.

It makes me angry, my inability to be of service to those who actually need the kindness I am capable of giving.  It upsets me greatly that I am not strong enough to do anything for anyone of those people.

So, when I am told to just let those bad people keep on doing their bad things, it frustrates me, I don't want to just let them, I want to pray that justice is met to them, that those people in need of help receive it, that they aren't damaged beyond repair, and that those who hurt them meet a proper justice given to them, to let them live with what they've done, to deeply realize it, and work through those darknesses inside of them.

I think it's fair to say I shouldn't worry though.  It doesn't help in anyway, does it?

I wish it were directly true that we create our own reality with our thoughts, and in a way it is, but I speak of the collective reality, the one shared by all humanity, my thoughts alone do not create that reality for others, it is a group effort, and sadly it seems humanity just still isn't ready to collectively create a better reality for everyone else.

I wish I could give you any satisfactory answers to your questions, but I can't. I just know that this is not the density of understanding, as Ra tells us. I 'do' wonder sometimes how many people who have read the material, have a personal relationship with the Creator. I see so many posts about "shadow work"... "know thyself"... "magic" "alchemy" bla-bla-bla etc. etc. and wonder if the Creator even features in any of these pursuits. I have discovered the material in early 2011, so it's been 7 years, and I haven't "crashed" yet. I am not constantly walking on clouds, but happiness is never far. As long as you rely purely on your own devices, you will fail. The key is knowing the Creator. Ra were messengers of the Creator, the One, as they said in every opening sentence.

This is from The Art of Meditation:

Quote:The world is full of discord. The question is asked again and again: Why, if there is a God, does this God permit disease, war, famine, and disaster. How can all these evils be, if God is good, if God is life, if God is love. How can there be that kind of a God and the horrors of human experience. People throughout all time have attempted to solve this riddle, but there is no solution; there is no answer except that the world has not known God. We can never for a moment believe that if people in this world had a realization of God, they would have discord and inharmony, too. Discord and inharmony come into our life because of our ignorance of God. As we acquaint now ourselves with Him, we find the secret of harmonious existence.

Sorry for the "Him" and "God" bits, he was a Christian mystic, but it's still the truth. I see people talk of the benefits of meditation, never mentioning the Creator. Meditation is all about time with the Creator, it has nothing to do with benefits. You don't visit a good friend for any benefit, you do it because you enjoy it. If someone crashes, it's because they were attempting to get results through the feverish activity of their own minds.

The Art of Meditation Wrote:People throughout all time have sought freedom, peace, and plenty; but their search has been primarily through the feverish activity of the human mind. Pleasure and satisfaction have been artificially created, and because of their artificiality, they are neither permanent nor real. Living out from the level of the mind, there must be a continuous round of new pleasures, new faces, and new scenes. There is rarely a truly joyous moment, nor are there periods of rest and relaxation. Freedom, peace, and plenty are not dependent upon circumstances or conditions. Men have been free in chains; they have been free under slavery and oppression; they have found peace in the midst of war; they have survived floods and famine; they have prospered in periods of depression and panic.

The Creator always says "come to me, seek me" in all the holy texts. The unity is unity with the Creator, and separation is separation from the Creator. It is so obvious in the material when they say "the healer doesn't heal". He/she is simply a conduit for the Creator's power.

I see the basic wisdom here now in your posts.

I relent, there is an odd synchronicity to your words being said to me in the ways that you have.

As if the answer is simply to stop thinking so much about Creator and it's being and nature and such, and to just sit with Creator without trying to understand it.

Just Be.

Perhaps, it is that I fear this creator that makes me so greatly hesitant.  I think were I to meet myself as I have been at my worst, I would struggle to forgive...  I feel Creator would be the same.

It's weird how my faith in such a being hasn't wavered, I was writing philosophy papers in college in 2011 about a 'Creator' God that wasn't omnipotent but omniscient and in many ways possibly incomprehensible in its nature of being.  Two years later I find the Law of One.

'God' is heavily present in my life.  Perhaps that means something important.  It makes me anxious...  I am a vastly anxious person, which reflects your response to not worry.

Overall you've offered me now keys of wisdom to help me unlock my own issues to be more clearly known and healed now...

So for your efforts, I'd just like to say from my soul to yours, thank you, and I'm sorry for giving you such a hard time...  Know that I feel your consideration, and will try to follow your example in helping others, or simply said, I will pay this kindness and wisdom of yours forward.

Thanks for discussing these things with me

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:Some perceive the Ra Material differently than others, some see it as nihilistic, that the whole point of Creation is to just experience, there's no goal, nothing long term to reach for but an ever-changing arbitrary differentiation of experiences. For some that is akin to having no point to creation, nihilism.

I can certainly sympathize with that, CA. I might even somewhat agree with you, to a certain extent. Here's the thing: when you're talking about ultimate things, is there any statement one can make that can sum up the purpose of existence and experience equal to the gravity we feel it should? Is there any extant philosophy you think does this adequately? This is the limit of rational thought, I think: explanations merely reduce a infinitely nuanced and varied reality to some pithy, clean telos. It allows us to "settle" the question, but that is a kind of death where we stop striving. Our endless hunger here is actually our very life-force, I believe.

What the Confederation says, and this is in line with just about every spiritual path, is that we are not going to be able to fully appreciate this mystery through our present thought process. Even those who achieve some sort of enlightenment or insight rarely get there through the tool of thought -- it is not something they do, but something done to them. That inability to think our way out of this mystery is only nihilistic to the extent that the inability to model the totality of existence is interpreted as an abnegation of any rhyme or reason at all. Our intellects may constitute the limit of what we can say about the universe, but who in their right mind (heh) would claim that no ultimate understanding of the universe is possible simply because our intellects are not equal to the task of fully understanding it?

After all, it makes perfect sense that one piece of the Creation cannot contain within it the whole of Creation--at least, so long as that piece is identified as a mere piece. We've built into our rational view of the universe limitations, and then wring our hands about why we can't say anything unlimited! That's why we have this x-factor of "transcendence"; to point at a qualitative change that must occur in the roles of the different objects in Creation that necessarily steps across the boundaries and between the dividing lines of objects in the universe, understanding that those lines and boundaries are what allows us to reason about them in the first place. Transcendence is the hand-waving we do to accept the limits of reason while still using it.

To be honest, the above is why I sometimes despair for this forum: the topic is so ineffable, and the real meat that people crave cannot be transmitted via language, let alone HTTP. You find yourself pointing at a variable and reducing everything to something you cannot evaluate. What is key is to understand that every philosophy, every model, every reductionist understanding must in some way do this. It simply kicks the can of total understanding down the road, pretending we can at some future point reconcile it all by discovering some way to solve for the x-factor.

Now if you just mean nihilism with respect to morality, then I actually probably agree substantially with you -- I just don't accept the idea that that's an undesirable thing. This is an area where I am in a substantial amount of disagreement with several other philosophers of Confederation thought, to be clear, because I think folks like Nietzsche were actually onto something. The radical will to do as you truly wish seems to be the essence of the Creator's telos.

However, Confederation philosophy introduces a qualifying concept to nihilism, in my opinion, that transforms its core question: instead of asking "what do you desire / will", the question becomes "who is this agent doing the desiring and willing"? Because if we don't understand the nature of what Max Stirner called "the unique one" at the core of the indvidual's identity, how can we possibly certify the authentic will, the genuine desire in the first place, held by that unique one?

This is the flip side of the nihilism that I agree is embedded in Confederation philosophy: to understand the nature of the self. Third density as I see it then is the process we go through to realize that we eventually do not have any choice but to drive all desire, all will, all inquiry, all hope into the self -- either by dissolving that identity into something more fluid, or by bolstering that identity against the entire universe. It is the only way we can take the weight of nihilism and, instead of despairing and dissipating, actually strive towards some goal or telos that could possibly be conceived of as worthwhile.

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:I see the basic wisdom here now in your posts.

I relent, there is an odd synchronicity to your words being said to me in the ways that you have.

As if the answer is simply to stop thinking so much about Creator and it's being and nature and such, and to just sit with Creator without trying to understand it.

Just Be.

Perhaps, it is that I fear this creator that makes me so greatly hesitant.  I think were I to meet myself as I have been at my worst, I would struggle to forgive...  I feel Creator would be the same.

It's weird how my faith in such a being hasn't wavered, I was writing philosophy papers in college in 2011 about a 'Creator' God that wasn't omnipotent but omniscient and in many ways possibly incomprehensible in its nature of being.  Two years later I find the Law of One.

'God' is heavily present in my life.  Perhaps that means something important.  It makes me anxious...  I am a vastly anxious person, which reflects your response to not worry.

Overall you've offered me now keys of wisdom to help me unlock my own issues to be more clearly known and healed now...

So for your efforts, I'd just like to say from my soul to yours, thank you, and I'm sorry for giving you such a hard time...  Know that I feel your consideration, and will try to follow your example in helping others, or simply said, I will pay this kindness and wisdom of yours forward.

Thanks for discussing these things with me

I also enjoyed our exchange, Coordinate_Apotheosis. Thank you also for your honesty and authenticity, that made it very intellectually stimulating. Enjoy your friendship with the One, and I know the rest will all come together. :-) It can't be any other way, because it's the only source of power and freedom. You are all things, including anger, frustration, desperation and anxiety, as am I, as are we all. I see unhappiness as an evolutionary mechanism. The One getting to know the One, all beginning and ending in mystery. Let the planetary game continue, and don't let it distract you.

Some thoughts on Ra Material being nihilistic.

"The purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love." What is nihilistic about this?

What's the purpose of this? In Acts 17,26-28 it says that God made mankind ...
... to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist.

More perspective on the word "cult":

How an obscure oriental cult in a corner of Roman Palestine grew to become the dominant religion of the Western world

Dante Wrote:Not saying I believe this. But since we are all searching for the truth, this might be something worth considering.

In "The Stargate Conspiracy", Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince investigated whether the Ra Material was a product of CIA mind-control experiments. Or more accurately, they came to that conclusion after coming across several reasons why this may be so in the course of their research into Puharich. I said in my last post that this conclusion was invalid but didn't go into detail as to why. I am sure of this because their logic is faulty on several grounds and their conclusion is based on incomplete information.


First, they discuss at length the shady history of Puharich, namely his involvement in CIA experiments regarding altered states of consciousness, his military research into psychic phenomena, and his interest in developing remote voice-to-skull beaming technologies. Then we have the Ra group using trance to tap into channelled messages. With Puharich having met the Ra group, it would therefore appear that the Ra Material was the product of the military beaming messages into Carla Rueckert's head during trance states. That the Ra Material began shortly after Puharich visited makes this seem so. In truth, the Ra Material began in January of 1981 and they met with Puharich in 1977/78 so it wasn't exactly "shortly" thereafter. There's lots that can happen in between.

Secondly, the Council of Nine which Puharich helped tap into via his hypnotized subjects called themselves the nine enneads of heliopolis, the nine gods of Egyptian mythology. "The Stargate Conspiracy" then says, "Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert of L/L Research had (through Carla) made contact with Ra, one of the Nine, though significantly only after meeting Puharich."  There are a couple twists in that statement. One is that by definition, the god "Ra" was indeed one of the nine major Egyptian gods, but that the Council of Nine included the god "Ra" as one of their members does not necessarily mean that the "Ra" channelled by Carla was the same source Puharich tapped into. To say "Ra, one of the Nine" is kind of misleading as it was in direct context of Puharich's Nine.

Who is to say that Puharich didn't arrive or associate with the Ra group due to his interest in such phenomena at large, which Ruckert/McCarty/Elkins had already been doing long prior to Puharich's arrival? Or perhaps he was sent in at a critical time when real contact was about to be made with an actual higher density source? Judging by the way Puharich and the govt worked, there would be just as much interest in investigating genuine phenomena as there would be in faking it for COINTELPRO purposes.

Third, it was mentioned in the book that Puharich's subject committed suicide. That Don Elkins committed suicide in 1984 was supposed to show he was likewise a puppet of Puharich, even though it was Carla who did the channeling and then in a manner unlike the Council of Nine channelers who merely repeated the voices they heard in their heads. The actual story behind Don Elkins's suicide is a sad tale that shows dynamics at play different from those surmised by Picknett and Prince.  It can be found here: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/… book_5.htm
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At a Cassiopaeans session of August 1, 2001, the following exchange took place:

Q: So, this stuff is just another diversionary channeled message designed to keep people confused. It looks like the guy has made up messages out of our worst nightmares, putting the worst possible spin on it imaginable. So, we can forget this idea?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the source of this kind of material? What kind of energy is behind it?
A: STS mind control signal.
Q: What is it designed to do?
A: Reach those that are programmed to receive.
Q: Let me ask you this: if some of these STS programming signals that are going out, I mean, I’m assuming some of them come from 3rd density, is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Do they actually have, like, some place on the planet where these guys sit around and read science fiction books and get these really crazy theories and stories that they assemble with some sort of fiendish glee, and then convert them via computer into the programming signal code that gets beamed out into people’s heads, while the guys who are making up all the space brothers scenarios in some secret military base or whatever, just fall down on the floor laughing at what they have just done? That people will believe anything? Is this possibly something that is going on?
A: Yes.
Q: That’s sick. (A) Well, if you had their agenda, wouldn’t you do it? (L) If I was as sick as those puppies, and had the money and facilities, yeah – I guess that’s what they are doing. They have probably taken whole H. P. Lovecraft novels, converted them to programming signals, and beamed ’em out for the New Age crowd to channel and believe! And then they say “My God! The space brothers or guardian alliance told me! It’s just like Lovecraft said! He must have been a prophet! Oh my God! Can you imagine?” (A) But it works. (L) It sure does.(A) You see, what this guy R___ is telling us about, the musician who is working on laser light shows in conjunction with certain music, is that it is capable of inducing prolonged altered states of consciousness, and that it will be used for massive, grand scale programming via the entertainment arts. He’s telling us about another phase of the program. And it’s coming pretty soon, according to him.

Did you know that there was another individual who channeled the 'Council of Nine' before Puharich, named J.J. Hurtak? Also a lot of controversy surrounding that guy as well but he was actually channeling them independently before working with Puharich. I have his book the Keys of Enoch and I find it very different from all the other Council of Nine channelings.

Also interesting to note that the secret group the violent gang MS-13 is controlled and headed by goes by the name 'Council of Nine' and they are openly satanic.

Here is a bit from the Introduction in the Keys of Enoch by J.J. Hurtak you might find interesting:

"I was shown how earth was part of a biochemical testing zone using both fallen and divine thought-forms in determining what type of intelligence could eventually free itself from the countless physical rounds of existence controlled by the fallen hierarchies inhabiting the regions of Ursa Major, Ursa Minor, Polaris and Thuban. These realms contain beings in imperfect bodies of Light who use their power to establish themselves as gods in the lower realms."

Dante, you certainly are out there man.

I've already concluded on my own that there's some Truth and lies in the material, whether the lies come from CIA interference or discarnate entities is irrelevant to me.

The chakra information is real, many teachings provided are real.  If there was a conspiracy to provide misinformation here, it failed in part as real information got through.

It's worth mentioning though that the CIA did bug the house the material was being channeled in, and considering how this might have interfered with the contact, it's worth noting that the areas of the material that seem detuned or lack a greeting might be a proof of interference.

Whatever it may be, Ra seemed to keep the channel as clear as they could to decent effect.  It would seem 6D Narrow Beam communications are more worthwhile than CIA mind beam technology lol

Haha, and people wouldn't consider us strange, we really are out there to think we're not all some weirdos believing in weird stuff.

Aion Wrote:Did you know that there was another individual who channeled the 'Council of Nine' before Puharich, named J.J. Hurtak? Also a lot of controversy surrounding that guy as well but he was actually channeling them independently before working with Puharich. I have his book the Keys of Enoch and I find it very different from all the other Council of Nine channelings.

I am familiar with J.J. Hurtak. I have his computer animated video "Merkabah Voyage of a Starseed." He had been channeling the Nine independently since 1973 however, Puharich's research goes back as far as 1948 when he founded a private research laboratory called The Round Table Foundation, in Glen Cove, Maine. In 1952, Puharich brought into his laboratory an Indian mystic named Dr. D G Vinod, who began to channel The Nine or ’the Nine Principles’. The Nine proclaimed themselves to be God, stating “God is nobody else than we together, the Nine Principles of God.”

The Nine's declaration states, "I am the beginning. I am the end. I am the emissary. But the original time I was on the Planet Earth was 34,000 of your years ago. I am the balance. And when I say “I” – I mean because I am an emissary for The Nine. It is not I , but it is the group. We are nine principles of the Universe, yet together we are one."

In 1971, Puharich discovered Uri Geller. Puharich hypnotized Geller in an attempt to find out where his abilities came from. As a result, the young Israeli started to channel ’Spectra’ – an entity which claimed to be a ’conscious super-computer’ aboard a spaceship.


A conscious super-computer aboard a spaceship? Sounds like something right out of Star Trek dosen't it? In fact Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek, was part of Puharich's 'Lab Nine' (circa 1973) in 1974 and 1975. JJ Hurtake was appointed second-in-command of this group ’by the Nine.’

So, could the Ra Confederacy be a creation of the Council of Nine (or "Spectra")? After all, the Nine referred to themselves as the nine enneads of heliopolis, the nine gods of Egyptian mythology and by definition, the god "Ra" was indeed one of the nine major Egyptian gods. The Nine maintains a network of physicists and psychics, intelligence operatives and powerful billionaires, who are less concerned about their "source" and its weirdness than they are about having EVERY advantage and new data edge in what THEY believe is a battle for Earth itself.

Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:It's worth mentioning though that the CIA did bug the house the material was being channeled in, and considering how this might have interfered with the contact, it's worth noting that the areas of the material that seem detuned or lack a greeting might be a proof of interference.

The CIA and their mind control programs, from Bluebird to Artichoke to MK-ULTA, are a matter of public record. Puharich lead their experiments into altered states of consciousness and his military research into psychic phenomena. So, it's no coincidance that he showed up at a critical time when real contact was about to be made with an actual higher density source (L/L Research ).

I think Ra would've stated as much regards their identity.  I wouldn't clump them in so quickly just because of their name.

But to be fair, no one thought to question Ra on these subjects either so there may be potential for overlap, I just don't see the point in overcomplicating things like that.

There's also a matter of polarity, Ra would seem very focused on service to others.

Can't say I'd expect the same from a super computer on a spaceship.