Good morning. I will try to answer a few questions here working up through your post.
Think of omnipotence. It's a paradox, creator can make something bigger than itself, then overcome it. Evolve through it. Creator creates something bigger and more evolved (because it can) to yearn to overcome (which it eventually can do).
It's semantics. We all are always continually becoming evermore one with the creator. The perspective seems to change though.
We'd probably find the end of densities to be the time of great coalescence, where mostly all distortions return to their source to be re-evaluated and worked upon to discontinue, and then we hopefully start where we left off give or take if new things require old lessons be relearned.
Time is, as space, a local phenomenon that distorts creation into an appearance. In spacetime we have a lot of space as the main precedent of our experiential interface with reality and time appears to be snippets of portions of space in a nearly infinite array of linear and nonlinear sequences.
So in timespace, time may be the main precedent of experience, where space is more localized (like time in spacetime) to be more mutable. So you lack the restrictions of a typical physical soace because your main analog of experience is piped through the elements of time. This could make timespace appear to be vastly perceived as a series of available time to work within (like a series of available space is present to work with on spacetime) but the spatial observations of timespace would have space being more as time, less noticeable. Same spatial areas might appear differently in timespace, manifestation occurred differently due to space being less concrete to change, and the idea of timelessness can be found in the idea of an endless space in spacetime. Where one has access to the spiral construction of linear time to interwork with.
Further timespace may be like spacetime in that there is in a way a means to equate geographical locations to different groups in timespace, as in city like groupings of entities occurs in timespace just like in spacetime, only they don't seem to need to be on a sphere floating in space built on a part of that sphere.
I don't even know if timespace has equivalents to planets and stars or even space. I always understood it like a Flat Earth concept, it's a singular plane overlapping every plane, and for all intents and purposes of explanation is called flat whereas space might be called the polar opposite, well rounded.
So basically in timelessness spacial change and individual experience are still available, it's just not as easy to polarize due to the nature of the state of experience. We see enough in timespace to know better. The same isn't always said in spacetime.
Timelessness opens the doorway to nonlinear events occurring, the future creates the past moment by moment. Linear occurrences suddenly become backwards in realization that a past event occurred because a future event needed it to.
There's a lot to learn with that availability. You can even begin creating your own experiences you had way so long ago in the past.
I think 7D is a grand arc into an existence based on operating from a purely Allness beingness. Perhaps individuation occurs still but the theme would seem to focus on movement into thr efforts of eternity upon it's past self focusing on moving to creating a new future with effects to the then past.
The violet ray has such mystery around it because it is apparently an infringement to share information on it, for Ra anyways.
Quote:God does three things: He creates, He preserves, and He dissolves. Death is inevitable. At the time of universal dissolution, everything will be destroyed, nothing will survive. But the Divine Mother will preserve some seeds of creation. She will take them out again at the time of the new creation. It is just like the mistress of the house with her hotchpotch pot. (All laugh.) In it She preserves cucumber seeds, sea-foam and indigo pills in small bags. (Ramakrishna)
(10-30-2017, 03:22 AM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]Every other density and its relating energy center and ray has been discussed a lot more both in the books and here in the forums, except 7th density, the density of foreverness, and violet ray.
It would be nice to read your thoughts on them.
I would assume when the entire spectrum of energy of all the lower centers is good enough, the violet ray center activates.
What can 7d be all about? how can ''foreverness'', or as I understand it, ''timelessness'' be a whole grand lesson of an entire density?
And if there's no more experience of time, how can change take place and be perceived?
And I also wish more info about the following octaves was available. are they infinite?
what happens when the densities end? I hope we don't start anew.. that would be terrible!
I thought we became one with the creator after this first octave of creation. how can something be bigger/more evolved than the creator?
If 1D through 6D is akin to painting a beautiful work of art, 7D is the final brushstroke and then admiring the painting in its completeness, sacredness, and perfection before moving on to a new crystallized masterpiece.
No change is made in 7th density. As you said, it is timeless. It is looking at the wholeness of the creation in its entirety. Something akin to the life review each of us will experience at the end of our physical incarnations, prior to moving on to new lessons, albeit on a cosmic grand scale. After that review of the wholeness of creation, the looking backwards is finished and we proceed forth through the ultimate spiritual gravity well into to the new octave, keeping only those refinements, that we want to continue exploring in the new infinity (the refinements on the original thought we want to continue playing with).
The densities are cyclical. So we do start over in a certain sense, except for small refinements we want to continue to explore, but those could be discarded as well, if we, as the one infinite creator, saw fit. The octave density becomes the red ray or 1st density of the next octave of densities, or in kabbalistic terminology, the kether of our network of sephira becomes the malkuth that the next tree of life sprouts from.
Starting over only sounds bad because we tend to view the lower vibrations as less perfect than the higher vibrations, but really, they all have their value, just as all colors of the rainbow are beautiful, in their own way. The white light is beautiful, but the colors juxtaposed in their separation are also beautiful. Would you deny the expressions of the rainbow? If it makes you feel any better, time is an illusion and the time/space (inner prana) descends as the space/time ascends (outer prana). Thus all levels of evolution exist concurrently.
It really is perfection when seen in the most candid light, though, we from our 3rd density incarnate standpoint are not properly equipped to appreciate that perfection.
(10-30-2017, 03:22 AM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]What can 7d be all about? how can ''foreverness'', or as I understand it, ''timelessness'' be a whole grand lesson of an entire density?
7D strives toward learning the foreverness of love by allowing its infinite expression, it really is like an endless cycle. What grows uses its growth to allow further growth from within other-selves, and as such all harvest of experience allow further harvests to take place and so on.
I think the work of 7D is pretty much to create individual sub-nexuses or plenums of space-time, in the image of the central sun, such as this planet, solar system or galaxy, to add to the wholeness of the Octave in allowing sub-portions of the Creator to coalesce into manifestation from within them, they create new space-time continuums for experience. Based on the harvests of the essences that make up these sub-Logois, there are choices made to answer the free will of the Creator which is not yet manifest. A good example of this is the usage of the veiling process which allowed the manifestation of the negative path which was unknown from 7D and under, I would say the negative path is of itself not all that useful for the Octave-harvest of individualizations (except if it reflects a facet of your timeless free will which made you be born as part of its experience) but its exploration is a definitive necessity to the Octave harvest as a whole as Love ought to be seen unconditionally in all its facets.
It's all fun and beautiful, it's all you.
I don't think we start over. The last octave was mover/moved. This one is service-to-self/service-to-others. So at least the fundamental goal changes.
According to Ra there was anyway but they didn't know much about it beyond what gemini just said.
Well they also mention having a belief, without proof even for themselves, that there's an infinite array of octaves.
It's funny, for how much we attribute knowledge to Ra, there are things even she does not know.
(10-31-2017, 01:21 PM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2017, 07:23 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]Well they also mention having a belief, without proof even for themselves, that there's an infinite array of octaves.
It's funny, for how much we attribute knowledge to Ra, there are things even she does not know.
Yeah. but Ra not knowing about the first octave, the one before this one, is sth else..
What are they doing with all their time? they should study harder 
Well it is in their nature to be separate experiences, although neither exist apart.
(10-31-2017, 02:00 PM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]How does being a different experience cause them to not remember it? will they forget the current density totally once we enter the next octave as well?
Well if the nature of their densities is alike ours, you wouldn't be self-aware til the 3rd density, so much less in perception of all the infinity that leads to that moment. Technically you're the whole of it yet only the layer of us we call Intelligent Infinity truly has the whole view.
I think it works a bit like our veiling process, our Octave is veiled to others Octaves and this veiling can be pierced. I wouldn't doubt there are many souls who know more about the previous Octave than Ra.
(10-31-2017, 06:50 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think we start over. The last octave was mover/moved. This one is service-to-self/service-to-others. So at least the fundamental goal changes.
I don't know if it was so much the goal changed, as service to self/service to others was simply a more eloquent expression of mover and moved, so it was retained. The creator is trying to "know itself" in the seven rays in every octave and its trying to create the most eloquent environment for those 7 learnings in every octave, so these refinements on the archetypes were found to enhance the "classroom" in these areas. It is like if a teacher found a better way to teach kindergarten, it would then do it that way, as opposed to the other way, because the new way was more 'efficient'. Another example is introducing the veil to 3rd density, because it made the density more compressed, or efficient. It made the yellow ray lesson more effective.
(10-31-2017, 01:21 PM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2017, 07:23 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]Well they also mention having a belief, without proof even for themselves, that there's an infinite array of octaves.
It's funny, for how much we attribute knowledge to Ra, there are things even she does not know.
Yeah. but Ra not knowing about the first octave, the one before this one, is sth else..
What are they doing with all their time? they should study harder
Now I'm not sure that's fair lol
There's some references that 'rebirth' is a theme that repeats in creation, it might not be so hard to consider that one reborn forgets things, or that the then knowledge is no longer compatible with the now knowledge.
It's sort of like how when one goes from 1D to 2D, they probably don't remember what it was like to be fire or air or water or a crystal (earth) the way a 3D soul might recall what it was like to be an animal or a tree. Or more accurately, the ability to remember that is incompatible with what is able to be remembered.
However, the linearity of moving from octave to octave does not seem to imply total forgetting but rather a change in how one processes information and thus 'remembers'. There is some references that moving from one octave to the next requires some sort of fundamental change, and this change seems to in some way require one to forget in some ways in order to experience in new ways.
Yet if you go off of Aaron from the Aaron and Quo Dialogues book, despite one 'forgetting', they may have the means to still recall or even return to a state where they can remember. We don't know how Ra perceived the previous octave, but they were able to comment of their own opinion upon it so apparently they could still somehow view or 'understand' or 'know' in a way they could despite the differences being enough to be otherwise not known by them.
Further Ra has stated they are not omniscient, they cannot plumb the depths of our reality, as in they do not understand the full nuances of the problems in 3D, they are not 'completely' aware, they can view them but they cannot always understand what precisely the issue is it would seem.
Which is very hard to wrap your head around when Ra can view each moment in our time continuum, and can perceive our reality in ways that they can translate into their own understanding to answer such questions as historical ones and such interactions between conversations including reporting on the conversations and lives of notable historical figures.
I like to think the previous octave was more a means of pure experience with consciousness being seeded there, and only beginning to emerge towards instinct (and eventually awareness then self awareness) at the beginning of our octave.
(10-31-2017, 06:44 AM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]So this is a new red ray or orange ray, I mean in this new orange ray density you don't experience what animals here experience.
That sounds good. I meant starting over would suck. to discard everything we have gathered so far... it sucks, from my human perspective at least.
Sorry I missed this response.
My understanding is that the new experience would be similar to the old one, except for small refinements.
The 7 rays represent different types of identification one may have within infinity. So they are the explorations of "knowingness" of infinity. In Beingness, the subject and object are one. In knowingness, the mental exploration, a distance is potentiated between the subject and object, which results in a mind/body/spirit interaction. An "experience".
You already know everything there is to know about everything there is to know and every particle of existence has had this omniscience since the beginning of the octave. The evolution through the octave isn't to "get us anything" or to evolve into something greater, as there is nothing to evolve to, because we are infinite and perfect already. The densities are simply the process of pouring through our being with a fine tooth comb to explore ourselves in separation. Pouring the white light through a prism to see the rainbow.
So we don't lose anything, because there is nothing to lose, and nothing to gain.
It is like going on a vacation. You go on the vacation and when you are done with the vacation you come back home. It wasn't to leave home for a new place, rather it was about the journey, not the destination. That's the 'fun'. The separation maintains and enriches the perfection of unity, by potentiating appreciation for the perfection of the one. Without the separation, we couldn't experience the ecstasy of reunification. You have to be a little hungry to appreciate food, a little cold to appreciate warmth, and experience a little pain to truly appreciate pleasure. Without the aversion, you lose consciousness of the attraction because it is eventually seen as baseline.
You have to a potentiate a distance for the spark to jump across. This is what gives meaning to existence.
(11-01-2017, 03:17 AM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing to gain and nothing to lose?
How's finishing 7d on this octave with all the awareness, compassion, wisdom, sense of unity, and purity that's acquired/gained and also the removal/losing of flaws and illusions of space and time, throughout the current octave, and entering the next one as a being such as the first density being, rock, similar to going on a vacation?
If anyone's totally ok with that kind of thing, then he/she would seem unreal to me.
Well, it is far off from our human standpoint. Very far off. And one is free to dwell in perfect awareness of unity for as long an eternity one could possibly want. But it is all just a dream. And eventually, the gods want to play, because infinite unity is also infinite creativity and it eventually must express itself. And the play of gods looks different from the play of man, so I'm not at all surprised by your reaction. We aren't at a level of vibration that can see and appreciate it in its perfection, because we are still in our infancy.
And you exist at all levels concurrently. So you're still a rock right now, and an critter, and every other stage of evolution and all the infinite permutations thereof. Moving through time is just an illusion. Again it is all about identification. There are human bodies walking around that don't experience separation between the mind present in them, and the rest of the cosmos, because they no longer identify with the small self anymore. They have shed any such distinction between self and others.
When it is all seen as a movie, the beginning of the movie isn't necessarily better than the end. Both are integral portions of the structure of the movie.
When the entities involved have learned the lessons of 7D sufficiently to move into 8D?
Also, forgetting isn't just a veil concept, but seems to be an integral part of advancing in some parts.
We 'forget' when we move into 7D.
We forget when we move into this octave.
We forget when we incarnate in 3D.
It would seem memory is temporary for experience to be further compounded in exploration. It eventually falls away for new modes of experience.
It's hard to make sense of as a Human being who creates their reality by the associative thoughts and feelings attached to their memories, but there's more than one way to be, more than one way to experience.
I see it like this as well, each density embodies the previous, adding it's nuances of lessons with the present density to enable a learning curve of advancement.
In 1D we see the elements becoming aware from pure instinct that would seem to embody the underlying reality of what came before their being.
They embody that and grow from it.
In 2D we see the animal and plant and bacterium all progressing from awareness with instinct as the major guide being learned to be pushed aside for the self awareness one eventually learns. This instinct engendered in 1D sticks with the animal for instance, the animal now aware but acting from 1D instincts it garnished from earlier experiences now embody's the instinct and grows from the experiences it leads the entity through towards self awareness.
I see it like a small video clip of a tiger walking through the jungle, it spots a Human sleeping, it's not hungry but it's instinct says 'here is food, I must hunt', but the tiger stands there as if deliberating, widened eyes in the dark lower into a lull of a gaze, it tilts it's head and moves on, it doesn't want to hunt, it knows better, whatever it may be, that it does not need to listen to its instincts always. It has become self aware.
Just as humans have embodied the animalistic awareness, the instinct it holds in it, we all as self aware beings begin moving towards a higher purpose, instead of hunting we begin growing. Instead of burning we begin building. Instead of killing we begin healing.
And in 4D and 5D and 6D the experiences of 3D resound as means of accelerated advancement.
4D embody's the 3D urges of conflict and the pushing of desire over another's or melding of desires.
5D embodies the 3D freedom of choice as well as the 4D choices of love, and is lead to experience its lessons fueled by that obtained in 3D (and thus 2D and 1D) and 4D.
In 6D the freedom of choice in 3D still resounds, but now embodied with the lessons of love of 4D and wisdom of 5D, which all pave the way for the lessons of 6D Unity to unfold.
7D takes all of this, and having become many as one, and no longer individuated, the lessons of 1-6D suddenly are the foundation for the new lessons of Allness, sort of like the previous octave was the foundation for 1D of our octave to grow off of.
So, it's a stacked and nested existence. It's hard to perceive what all this might mean or entail.
In a way you might see that imagination and creativity pave the way for understanding the nature of reality.
(11-02-2017, 03:21 AM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]So, if there's no time there, when does 7d finish?
When we choose it to. Unconscious momentum through time stops at this level, so all movement, or change, is consciously chosen here.
At 7D, we are at our full power as conscious creators. This is the Logoic level. The only difference between 7D and 8D is that one is potentiated infinity, and one is unpotentiated infinity.
One is a completed painting, and one is a blank canvas.
I don't assume you're dumb
I assume these concepts can be complicated and am trying to explain them without making the explanation confusing. I'm pretty bad at explaining things sometimes so I'm sorry if that came off insulting, I honestly did not intend it to.
I don't know if 7D time being 'timeless' can still be measured against time, like a portion of time can still be measured against the passing of experience in 7D? I don't know, I just assume the idea is that time is a construct one is beginning to evolve beyond needing to experience through.
There is a passage where Ra mentions the forgetting of self to join 7D (paraphrasing) and I only assume they can remember the past octave because they, as you said, evolved enough to start utilizing memory.
I actually liked my tiger example lol
Perhaps I shouldn't use my cat as inspiration for witnessing 2D instinct and 3D self awareness mixing lol...
(11-03-2017, 04:50 AM)Cainite Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting!
I knew u'd post in this thread and was looking forward to it.
I'm glad to hear it. I'm a sucker for metaphysical questions.
Some people are upset by my apparent audacity to dare offer speculation towards these big questions of what happens at levels so removed from our current vibratory perspective, but I think it is actually one of my spiritual talents.
Just as some people are born with musical genius, mathematical expertise, or powerful abilities to passively radiate love, I feel part of my soul function is imparting metaphysical information.
I don't purport to be a metaphysical genius by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel a powerful ability to channel metaphysical technical information. I get the strong sense it has something to do with my "spirit job" or soul function between incarnations.
I will vouch for you Anagogy. Your insights are a gift to us all
