Bring4th

Do you have subjective proof that compels you to believe?

Today a friend of mine talked me into selling most of my video game stuff to get me my Christmas present, which turned out to be over $100 worth of content.

This was a surprise, a shock, I didn't expect it, or anything from him.

It was a reminder that I am looked after, through mysterious ways, and that I do not need to...Worry so much.  I worry a lot.  About things like WW3, homelessness, and widespread poverty, I have come to call this worrisome part of myself a Global Consciousness, that the state of the world can so profoundly affect me, the starving, the thirsty, the freezing, the lonely...  I recall the Vegas Shooting.  I couldn't stop myself from imagining, that placement.  To be one or more of those people, catching bullets...  I take those things into myself.  I imagine myself comforting all of those souls, telling them it'll be okay, things will turn out okay.  Leading them to a place of healing.

Proof to me is a 'subjective-objective' thing, as in through subjective experience one acquires an objective result, similar to objective-subjective: as in through 'objective' experience one acquires a subjective result.

To me, when a friend randomly manages to shower me with tangible love (gift giving), it makes me feel hope, that somehow, I won't suffer throughout life, that somehow, everything will turn out, somehow, all okay and well, but more, some-how, it'll all be perfect.

Do any of you have such proofworthy experiences that fill you with hope and belief of certain things?

I love this Jung quote from The Undiscovered Self that speaks to this subjective proof question a bit, I think:

Quote:The religious person enjoys a great advantage when it comes to answering the crucial question that hangs over our time like a threat: he has a clear idea of the way his subjective existence is grounded in his relation to "God." I put the word "God" in quotes in order to indicate that we are dealing with an anthropomorphic idea whose dynamism and symbolism are filtered through the medium of the unconscious psyche. Anyone who wants to can at least draw near to the source of such experiences, no matter whether he believes in God or not. Without this approach it is only in rare cases that we witness those miraculous conversions of which Paul's Damascus experience is the prototype. That religious experiences exist no longer needs proof. But it will always remain doubtful whether what metaphysics and theology call God and the gods is the real ground of these experiences. The question is idle, actually, and answers itself by reason of the subjectively overwhelming numinosity of the experience. Anyone who has had it is seized by it and therefore not in a position to indulge in fruitless metaphysical or epistemological speculations. Absolute certainty brings its own evidence and has no need of anthropomorphic proofs.

(Author's emphasis)

I think we all crave (and fear) experiences that absolutely seize us, that we can no more deny than we can deny our own existence.  These kinds of experiences don't give us very much ability to question the "reality" of the experience because they are so fundamental that they seem outside or prior to the kind of observation-reflection-decision process by which we're so used to evaluating reality and whether we believe it.  At that level, the effort is not expended to believe in the event so much as it is to arrange the rest of our lives around the primacy of the experience.  I believe meditation and reflection are the best means to participate in conditioning yourself to have experiences like this.

Truth has weight, otherwise it would be empty.

Truth and proof sound the same to me, in a way. In my opinion it might relate to the first distortion. But there is something about sharing your experience with an open heart that is a loving act, or else we'd all go mute. This I believe is the place where wisdom and love need balancing, or else you'd accidentally be manipulation someone.


But then again, what is a proof of truth if we cannot understand?

Quote:16.39 Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

Belief is something entirely different, but it does consist of your truth/proof. So sharing your belief without proof is a more balanced state? What do you think?

My higher self has given me lots of proof.
I wonder if some of us are more prone to skepticism so prearrange basically being spoonfed proof along the path. Today something came true I was told about 3 months ago and even knew the time span(what week), still I thought it was unlikely as heck.

It happend. What was my response? to immidiatly ask for the next prediction, the reply was something to the effect of “these are to build your trust, are you going to use them that way?”

Obviously not communicated in words but I got the message. So many things have happened to build my trust. I’ve gotten as far as knowing it’s all intricately planned and being exicuted to perfection. The stuff I have witnessed is amazing yet I still doubt what Im told/shown sometimes.

If we can trust it’s all going exactly as planned the hiccups or disappointments must be part of the plan too. Knowing that we should be able to weather storms better, and keep our light bright through it all.

Wowzers.  Thank you for the replies, I thought I was going to be called crazy or get called out for trying to mix science with fantasy or something like that.

Glow, thank you so much for all of your patience, kindness, and nonjudgment.  Your story makes me curious but I will take it upon faith and trust in you because I recognize what you're experiencing, it was my life for months in 2014.

Sprout, I am completely uncertain lol
As far as I can see, the nuances according to discussions here on b4 are impossible to make sense of collectively from an individual perspective.  I think belief, faith, and truth have an interesting interconnected relationship.  As to a balanced expression of truth, in regards to sharing a belief without proof, I think ot depends.  Proof can be as simple as banging your shoe on a table proclaiming the table is real in a metaphysical discussion on the holographic nature of reality.  Nonproof probably isn't much different, by simply saying without banging a shoe on a table that the table is real, it'd be less aggressive and thus arguably more compassionate, but I believe it depends upon the ways of the individual to determine what action is a balanced action.

Elros, is this weight you speak of spiritual weight, physical weight, or metaphorical weight?
I feel emptiness deep inside of myself in my chest, I think of that emptiness as my soul's truth.  So it's a bit synchronistic and superbly curious that you'd describe such in such ways lol

Jeremy, Jung is a favorite of mine.  I have been seized so to speak, and all it did was make me question harder.  It's so weird, I recall in a meditation once I experienced ever so lightly the 'Presence of God', I say lightly but the experience gave me a deep serenity, and a deep curiosity.  Was it my higher self?  Or actually God? Was it a SMC or merely my guides loving me?

I spoke to my friends of it, they all looked at me weird...  I was enamored with desire to know to whom or what I owe such an experience to.

Meditation for me is vivid, powerful, and sometimes overwhelming.  I meditate very easily once I sit through the initial cacophony, and the only thing that ever kept me from meditating for hours was my surroundings.  The noise.  My cat.  My mother.  My neighbors, their kids.  I finally just smile and go back to my mundane life.  There's a reason I attenpt meditative states outside of meditation.

When I'm ready to once again confront the...  Universe inside of me, to communicate with it, I'll go back to sitting meditations, but when I hear voices, nonhuman voices, and experience profoundly new feelings of intensity, it is a bit scary...  Okay, very scary.  I'm already at risk for dementia genetically, my mind as is, is intense enough to escape myself.  I can't try to control me with meditation, I mean I can, but the result is terrifyingly progressive.  If I lose control of that progress, I might end up back in a hell mentality.  So, slow, cautious, steady, and curious are what I aim for now.  No accelerated polarization, no shortcuts to discovering unity and singularity.  I have those doors available, but they scare me, I walked through them once and ultimately wound up thinking I was literally in hell.

So, for me, proof is abundant in my subjective experiences, further, the spiritual is not beyond the psychological.  The physical and metaphysical are not seperate to me.  As such life is...confusing to me.  I don't identify with the manifest as much as I do the potentiated, the feminine, the metaphysical.  Society is beyond my understanding, sociologically I am dumb, or to jokingly jab at myself, autistic.  Relationships confuse me.  I never seem to be on the same page as others, like my friend and his Christmas present to me, blew me away, completely unforseen, unexpected, and almost unbelievable.

For instance, I look at a spiderweb.  Most think to get rid of it, but I stare and admire.  The beauty of God, and my belief and faith exist right there in that deadly spiral.

I don't know if that speaks towards or against your comment of primacy of the experience.  ...Truthfully, your intelligence is a bit beyond me, so I'm just hoping I responded adequately and not somehow missing the point like I've noticed I've done with another various times.

Thank you again everyone

To me the only truth is existence itself. it is the only undeniable thing. Everything else can be seen as true from a certain perspective and false from another perspective but none of these things will be true or false in the absolutes, they depend on subjective experience. Any reasoning that leads to a conclusion of veracity or falsity can be turned upside down with a different perspective. I don't think there is such a thing as objectivity. Pure objectivity requires a whole, united one perspective. But if there is only one, then there is no perspective because there is no reflection to observe. The closer we can get seems to be intersubjectivity, which is pretty much just a consensus, it's nothing more concrete. The game is all about seeing beyond the dualistic perspective of the mind that sees everything as either true OR false. It's both. We have to accept that this only absolute truth that is existence is as untangible as we are. Just energy breathing and dancing in the void. It's all about learning to love it instead of fighting it.

When I was very little, something very strange happened even though back then I didn't think it was strange. a frog materialized in my hands. or maybe it was placed there by teleportation or whatever. I really wanted the frog. and it wasn't imaginary like the imaginary friend I had back then. I brought the frog home. and my family remembers it still.

It was a really happy moment so the memory remains vivid still. that was proof of the power we have and are not using.
Other proofs for me can be how intelligent things are.. and how bees and ants act as one and share the same collective intelligence and the magical nature of things..

Love is the greatest proof that gives me faith though.

As a little side joke, don't let Isis read that Cainite, she might be overcome with the idea to post kek memes in relation to your froggy proof lol

That's a particularly impressive proof.  If I materialized or manifest or whatever something LIVING, I'd be blown away.  The closest I have to such an experience is water droplets dripping on me in doors without a clear source.  I used to think of those mysterious drops hitting me as Angel's Tears.

(12-31-2017, 12:19 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]post kek memes

There you are lol.  Glad you could drop by, Isis.  Lol, see you next year~

Another small subjective proof, is soft telepathy, for instance, today I had a very keen 'realization' as my mother walked down the stairs that she was going to say something that might hurt my feelings.  As if on cue, she began complaining about me nonchalantly to my face, but the entire time all I could think was, 'How did I know??'.  It's not the first time for me either.

One time a friend and I were talking about our romantic lives, I withheld a vital piece of information and got this curious sensation, followed by him making a face, looking at me, then telling me what I had just kept to myself.  I called him a mindreader back then for that moment but, I get a feeling it wasn't him, so much as me.

It's weird how it all goes.

Sth else happened last month.. ten or fifteen seconds before a motorcycle was hitting me in the street I suddenly thought a car or sth is going to hit me. then I told the guy who apologized for almost hitting me that I knew what was going to happen and he looked at me weirdly. I was just ready for it to happen so I controlled the situation.

but yeah the frog was my best achievement. If I go back to that moment I'd still ask for a frog or grass hopper or sth..

There is always a mystery of truth in One. Even for Ra. And even if some things can be proven, proof can slow the free seeking.

Quote:The kind of explanation which explains things away may give us something, though at a heavy cost. But you cannot go on ‘explaining away’ for ever: you will find that you have explained explanation itself away. You cannot go on ‘seeing through’ things for ever.

The whole point of seeing through something is to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too? It is no use trying to ‘see through’ first principles.

If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To ‘see through’ all things is the same as not to see.

(C. S. Lewis)

Quote:And this is our mission, to act through groups such as this one in order to disseminate information in such a fashion that [it] may be accepted or rejected, that it may be in a state lacking what the people of your planet choose to call proof. We offer them no concrete proof, as they have a way of expressing it. We offer them truth. This is an important function of our mission—to offer truth without proof. In this way, the motivation will, in each and every case, come from within the individual. In this way, the individual vibratory rate will be increased. An offering of proof or an impressing of this truth upon an individual in such a way that he would be forced to accept it would have no usable effect upon his vibratory rate.

(Hatonn)

(12-28-2017, 06:52 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have subjective proof that compels you to believe?

Today a friend of mine talked me into selling most of my video game stuff to get me my Christmas present, which turned out to be over $100 worth of content.

This was a surprise, a shock, I didn't expect it, or anything from him.

It was a reminder that I am looked after, through mysterious ways, and that I do not need to...Worry so much.  I worry a lot.  About things like WW3, homelessness, and widespread poverty, I have come to call this worrisome part of myself a Global Consciousness, that the state of the world can so profoundly affect me, the starving, the thirsty, the freezing, the lonely...  I recall the Vegas Shooting.  I couldn't stop myself from imagining, that placement.  To be one or more of those people, catching bullets...  I take those things into myself.  I imagine myself comforting all of those souls, telling them it'll be okay, things will turn out okay.  Leading them to a place of healing.

Proof to me is a 'subjective-objective' thing, as in through subjective experience one acquires an objective result, similar to objective-subjective: as in through 'objective' experience one acquires a subjective result.

To me, when a friend randomly manages to shower me with tangible love (gift giving), it makes me feel hope, that somehow, I won't suffer throughout life, that somehow, everything will turn out, somehow, all okay and well, but more, some-how, it'll all be perfect.

Do any of you have such proofworthy experiences that fill you with hope and belief of certain things?

When people ask for "proof", they are asking for some sort of physical manifestation - such as God coming down and manifesting objects out of thin air... But even then, how do you know that you are not seeing negative entities? To be honest, though, people like that would never believe or this could create misinterpretations in the future. There was a time when the "gods" walked with man, and now you see what has happened to those civilizations. They are steeped in mythology and applying human emotions to these figures as well as the Creator. Now, they want you to do your homework- they want you to "know yourself", and then at that point you may receive the "proof" that only you can discern. This is in essence the subjective proof you speak of.

(12-31-2017, 02:33 PM)johncarson698 Wrote: [ -> ]When people ask for "proof", they are asking for some sort of physical manifestation - such as God coming down and manifesting objects out of thin air... But even then, how do you know that you are not seeing negative entities?  To be honest, though, people like that would never believe or this could create misinterpretations in the future.  There was a time when the "gods" walked with man, and now you see what has happened to those civilizations. They are steeped in mythology and applying human emotions to these figures as well as the Creator.  Now, they want you to do your homework- they want you to "know yourself", and then at that point you may receive the "proof" that only you can discern.  This is in essence the subjective proof you speak of.

I don't think one needs to explicitly ask for proof, some of us have an ongoing relationship of learning from creator energy.
Proof/verification is an inevitable part of building this relationship as a two sided active interchange. It's our path, a back and forth exchange.

I get proof frequently, god/creator is one with us so walks with us at all times, we just don't always recognize the presence. Also just because in the past people were less conscious or ready to take what was offered to its full depth of understanding doesn't mean those moments were what brought some sort of civilization downfall. Each moment through time brought growth and change, steps along the way. Nothing to fear. Of course I don't believe in negative entities just unconscious ones. All still part of the plan, their actions necessary in this illusion to for the time they are present.