since suffering is a major theme to me and is of great importance to me
i have spent a lot of time thinking about it. the issue for me is resolving
the image of a loving compassionate god with the idea of so so many
people suffering here . so here are some of the conclusions i have come to
they are the only thing that makes sense to me
we live many many many lives many thousands maybe millions i dont know but definitely many
we choose the life we are going to live when we come here it is not
imposed on us as some form of punishment.
we are here for the experience of life itself be it a life that is viewed
as happy or as sad we chose to experience it
our lives are not linear we jump around one time we might be very rich
the next life abjectly poor again we are here for the experience
the experience that we gain is added to the common pool for use by
the entity that is known as humanity.
i know this might be common knowledge for some but for me it is an
important breakthru and i thought i would share it
norral
Norral, your observations are extremely beautiful. Thanks for listing them here.
Great insight Norral! The way I understand it is that we sometimes challenge ourselves with difficult lives. In essence we explore our boundaries of love and faith in an attempt to expand those boundaries.
I often wonder why people choose certain lives. The answer I usually get is something along the lines of "How do you know you really have faith if you can't have faith living that life?"
Personally, I'm looking forward to fourth density and the elimination of the suffering. I love myself/the creator/others enough to not want to be apart of the suffering any longer.
Dear JC and Confused.
thanks for your kind responses. i hope many will benefit in some small way from this thread. i agree so so much living a life of faith and trust just makes
everything we experience 10 times better. i also look forward very
much to our move into higher dimensions. every day brings us one day
closer to that great and glorious goal
peace and love
norral
(08-29-2010, 02:03 AM)norral Wrote: [ -> ]since suffering is a major theme to me and is of great importance to me
i have spent a lot of time thinking about it. the issue for me is resolving
the image of a loving compassionate god with the idea of so so many
people suffering here . so here are some of the conclusions i have come to
they are the only thing that makes sense to me
we live many many many lives many thousands maybe millions i dont know but definitely many
we choose the life we are going to live when we come here it is not
imposed on us as some form of punishment.
we are here for the experience of life itself be it a life that is viewed
as happy or as sad we chose to experience it
our lives are not linear we jump around one time we might be very rich
the next life abjectly poor again we are here for the experience
the experience that we gain is added to the common pool for use by
the entity that is known as humanity.
i know this might be common knowledge for some but for me it is an
important breakthru and i thought i would share it
norral
Hi norral!
I went through some pretty deep pondering about suffering and the victims of events too. One of the deepest thoughts was the idea that one can choose to take the role as the victim....for not the 'self' but the 'other selves'. A 'self' may offer their 'mind/spirit' complex to incarnate into a life that would act as a mirror for other selves to look into, to learn from.
I think the majority of lets say the children we see starving in the world, are selves that have offered their 'mind/spirit' complex to incarnate into the world to be that mirror for other selves to learn from. If a being looks in the mirror, they will see the selfishness of the world, as a whole unit, in the fact that the majority is living more for material things, not sharing and dividing the riches of the Earth where it is needed.
I have a hard time thinking children in a life of suffering are choosing to incarnate into that life to 'learn something'....I think its more to 'teach something' to those that will take the opportunity to learn.
When I think of the life of Jesus, I also see a being that incarnated with the will to offer 'theeself' to be a mirror to its other selves. If we look through the mirror, we see a being willing to give its life of flesh, for its other selves, living more for things of Spirit then of flesh. I dont think this being did this for its own 'self' as a individual....but for other selves, to learn something.
Just possibilities....just thoughts
Lynette
Dear Lynette
thanks for sharing your wisdom !! it is much appreciated.
i take your thoughts into my heart and they now become a part
of me
love and light
norral
norral, these are also questions central to the core of my existence in this lifetime. I am glad that we can support each other as we search for the answers together.
Great thread and I'm so grateful for this forum where we can have this discussion.
Everything you said seems right on to me.
I would like to add a few points as I see them. As always, please set aside anything that does not resonate with truth and love for you.
There are people who choose to do evil. Their evil is not caused by our not being loving and kind enough. Therefore, giving them more loving kindness does not change, heal or cure them. When we interact with them, until we commit to the positive polarity of light, they do all they can to have their way with us at our own cost. Once we know who we really are, we stand in the light with all we have according to all we understand and feel. When we do that, evildoers have far less power over us.
There are people living where Ra called "the sinkhole of indifference." They will be kind, happy, loving, helpful when it happens to be convenient to them - maybe a quarter of the time. They won't go out of their way to be deceptive and hurtful, but sometimes they'll slide into negativity just for the hell of it (interesting common phrase, yes?). Or perhaps more often, because they can't be bothered to pay attention to how their behavior affects others.
There are powerful spiritual forces of darkness that have manipulated our society for countless human generations. Not only do they use power structures as their personal chessboards, they also will manipulate the indifferent people any time they can grab an opening from the person's weak spot.
Perhaps from their own point of view, some of these physical and metaphysical manipulators are like the lion that strengthens the herd of gazelles by picking off the weakest individuals. "Greed is good," and "can't you take a joke?"
The percentage of evil psychopaths is probably very small amid all of humanity. But the percentage of weak-willed people who will go along to get along, even when this results in suffering, is much larger. Our society's institutions have been manipulated into brainwashing people to accept compromises, to not ask too many questions that would rock the boat.
We have been taught what to do when there are a hundred people with oars and bruises and chains. We have been taught that for any of the hundred to ask why the one person is shouting orders with the whip, would be to rock the boat and make life miserable for everyone.
The same message appears a thousand times a day in advertisements, news reports, movies, novels, staff meetings and lousy customer service. We are taught that we are helpless and powerless, and must abdicate our free will to the all-powerful governments, corporations, inhumane family-secrets rules or corrupt social institutions that can only save us when we are better servants and doormats. We are conditioned to just take it and not stand up for what is right, since that would be too much of a bother.
This conditioning can be very, very hard to overcome.
Because of all these negative influences, sometimes we can have a hard time connecting to the divine spark of light and love inside ourselves.
We can also find ourselves shoved this way and that by other people doing mindless destructive things for no particular reason.
These may have been pre-incarnate agreements to experience the dark, so that through the contrast we can better love the light.
Or they could just be mistakes creating more bad karma.
In all of this I find solace in the Law of One. If we are all things, then our experience of pain can be better borne by knowing that we are also, ultimately, the absence of pain, the totality of freedom, the calm after the storm, the happy reunion scene only made possible by the shocking absence scene. I also find inspiration on V. Frankl's work: we are here to love if we can, to do good work if we can, and if nothing else is left to us, to choose that suffering cannot keep us from choosing our own human dignity.
Hi Questioner
you touch on something else very near and dear to me.
that is connecting to the divine spark within and realizing
that no one can do this for you. society as it exists is disempowering
always telling you that you need some expert or the other in
order to be whole. au contraire i find that if you listen and attune
yourself to the god within you wont be led wrong. this timeframe as
we approach 2012 actually makes it easier for us to connect to
the divine imho. right now i am reading the life triumphant by
james allen and it is directly about this point.
this is one of the reasons i dont join groups they want to control
you and the way u think. it is utterly ridiculous to think that people
will have the same belief systems yet that is what groups insist upon
this is the way we think. they are not open minded and i feel stifled
when i am in those type of situations. they dont want originality
they want conformity, not for me.
anyway thanks for your thoughts i looked up that german psychiatrist
on wikipedia interesting . when i saw the movie sophies choice i was
so enraged at the arrogance of the germans i came outside and i
wanted to punch the first german i met which fortunately i didnt do.
that arrogance that the nazis had is a perfect example of the evil that
walks the face of this earth and the fact that the usa scooped up
all those german scientists says a lot about us. this country has
been very influenced by the nazis imo.
anyway thanks for you thoughts
norral
It is a comforting thought to know that even when tremendous pain is suffered, one can be sure that some good is coming from it, in the gift of experience to the One. I believe the Creator doesn't have the ability to perceive good or evil, pleasant or horrible, but sees all as it is...one thing, and even our worst moments of pain offer something that no other being can offer in quite the same way. Overcoming these trials is another gift...we are creating hope, compassion and forgiveness- a store that others may draw on in their time of need. Thank you for expressing such beautiful thoughts.
(08-30-2010, 08:05 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]It is a comforting thought to know that even when tremendous pain is suffered, one can be sure that some good is coming from it, in the gift of experience to the One. I believe the Creator doesn't have the ability to perceive good or evil, pleasant or horrible, but sees all as it is...one thing, and even our worst moments of pain offer something that no other being can offer in quite the same way. Overcoming these trials is another gift...we are creating hope, compassion and forgiveness- a store that others may draw on in their time of need. Thank you for expressing such beautiful thoughts.
I think you may have just put your finger on the most illuminating aspect of spiritual truths. Many things made sense as I read these remarks from you Ahktu. How did you come to this realization? Somehow, this feels right though I truly do not know.