Full Version: Becoming Karmically Involved
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Quote:12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.

How would one become karmically involved? please correct me if my basic example is wrong

Say you're a child and with your group of friends. The peer pressure forces you to bully an innocent kid even though you don't want to. The feeling of shame, guilt, and a loss of compassion looms undetected but ever increasing as you suppress the feelings.

As you grow older you start to get physically sick as these blockages build up. As you get sicker you change your diet and start to care for yourself physically which then turns into mental and emotional. As you learn more about yourself, you are able to understand, accept, and forgive yourself for the problems you had in your life due to the initial failure of the first catalyst. Although you healed those wounds; the primary catalyst is still hidden with those emotions.

As you experience life trying to search for the initial feeling through experiences with other selves the feeling arises. Say there are people in the airport fighting for seats on the plane and 3 big dudes pull a guy who wouldn't budge out from a seat because they want to sit together. Yet you turn away from confronting them; you understand what they did was wrong and you feel for the guy as the kid you bullied. But in that moment, using the wisdom you posses, find there is nothing in that moment you could do to benefit the guy or yourself. In that moment the entity used their logic of karma instead of having faith in confronting that first blockage. With failing the catalyst the entity can no longer complete the mission it set out after. So eventually the entity dies of the sickness and gets to his higher self.

If this entity has faith and will, can it make the choice to relive the same incarnation time and time again until he overcomes that obstacle which would in turn create a stronger learning/teaching (assuming at certain points he fully understands that he is reliving it's life, but can't understand why or explain how it knows)?
Ra's answer (you might have seen this):

Ra Wrote:Questioner: What could one of these entities do to become karmically involved? Could you give us an example?

Ra: I am Ra. An entity which acts in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings can become karmically involved.
(02-23-2018, 03:17 PM)Nía Wrote: [ -> ]Ra's answer (you might have seen this):

Ra Wrote:Questioner: What could one of these entities do to become karmically involved? Could you give us an example?

Ra: I am Ra. An entity which acts in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings can become karmically involved.

Not sure how I missed this, but anyways I would have to say i'm more intrigued with the after effect of being karmically involved. After leaving the body the entity would understand it can't change or redo the planning of the incarnation, but it would know there are infinite possibilities and could get caught in a cycle of repeating the incarnation. I assume the entity would want to keep trying to complete the mission yet it would be impossible, and in 100-700 years it would have to repeat 3rd density.
Well in another thread a few days ago I tried to explain how negative polarity can be considered a karma of itself. In this same theme, I think there is a good example of two wanderers in Ra's home world who became karmically involved to the extent of switching polarity and failing in how they had intended to serve.

It's somewhat an extreme and instead I see it more as that we're all, to an extent or another, karmically involved because of incarnating. Wanderers come here to bring a powerful focus that knows the heart, but in incarnating this knowing is forsaken as to step into confusion, and so this focus and its innate power of creative manifestation has potential to magnify the distortions it came to assist in alleviating.  Ultimately I think it is near-sought because it helps to resolve what's contained within spirit and so advance the higher density's progression. Although these two wanderers caused slaughters and war, they also repolarized and later on had part in Ra's 4D experience. So there's really no mistake, there's bonds and we identify to these bonds and co-learn/teach through these bonds together. One day most of everything that's been here will maybe sit together in 4D in total forgiveness, acceptance and love of what each has been.

Quote:89.27 Questioner: Were some of Ra’s population negatively harvested at the end of Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We had no negative harvest as such although there had been two entities which had harvested themselves during the third density in the negative or service-to-self path. There were, however, those upon the planetary surface during third density whose vibratory patterns were in the negative range but were not harvestable.

89.28 Questioner: What was Ra’s average total population incarnate on Venus in third density, the number?

Ra: I am Ra. We were a small population which dwelt upon what you would consider difficult conditions. Our harvest was approximately 6 million 500 thousand mind/body/spirit complexes. There were approximately 32 million mind/body/spirit complexes repeating third density elsewhere.

89.29 Questioner: What was the attitude just prior to harvest of those harvestable entities of Ra with respect to those who were obviously unharvestable?

Ra: I am Ra. Those of us which had the gift of polarity felt deep compassion for those who seemed to dwell in darkness. This description is most apt as ours was a harshly bright planet in the physical sense. There was every attempt made to reach out with whatever seemed to be needed. However, those upon the positive path have the comfort of companions and we of Ra spent a great deal of our attention upon the possibilities of achieving spiritual or metaphysical adepthood, or work in indigo ray, through the means of relationships with other-selves. Consequently, the compassion for those in darkness was balanced by the appreciation of the light.

89.30 Questioner: Would Ra’s attitude toward the same unharvestable entities be different at this nexus than at the time of harvest of third density?

Ra: I am Ra. Not substantially. To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested. We were ready to serve in whatever way we could. This still seems satisfactory as a means of dealing with other-selves in third density. It is our feeling that to be each entity which one attempts to serve is to simplify the grasp of what service is necessary or possible.

89.31 Questioner: What techniques did the two negatively harvested entities use for negative polarization on such a positively polarized planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases. Upon a planetary influence much unused to slaughter these entities were able to polarize by this means. Upon your third-density environment at the time of your experiencing such entities would merely be considered, shall we say, ruthless despots which waged the holy war.

89.32 Questioner: Did these two entities evolve from the second density of the planet Venus along with the rest of the population of Venus that became Ra from second density to third?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

89.33 Questioner: What was the origin of the two entities of which you speak?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

89.34 Questioner: And yet, though they had already evolved through a positive fourth density they, shall we say, flipped polarity in the reincarnating in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

89.35 Questioner: What was the catalyst for their change?

Ra: I am Ra. In our peoples there was what may be considered, from the viewpoint of wisdom, an overabundance of love. These entities looked at those still in darkness and saw that those of a neutral or somewhat negative viewpoint found such harmony, shall we say, sickening. The Wanderers felt that a more wisdom-oriented way of seeking love could be more appealing to those in darkness.

First one entity began its work. Quickly the second found the first. These entities had agreed to serve together and so they did, glorifying the One Creator, but not as they intended. About them were soon gathered those who found it easy to believe that a series of specific knowledges and wisdoms would advance one towards the Creator. The end of this was the graduation into fourth-density negative of the Wanderers, which had much power of personality, and some small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively. There was no negative harvest as such.

89.36 Questioner: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and were they male and female?

Ra: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the Creator, each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of partnership.

89.37 Questioner: As a wild guess, one of these entities wouldn’t be the one who has been our companion here for some time in our sessions, would it?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

89.38 Questioner: Then from what you say I am guessing that these Wanderers returned or wandered to Ra’s third density to possibly seed greater wisdom into what they saw as an overabundance of compassion in the Ra culture. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect in the sense that before incarnation it was the desire of the Wanderers only to aid in service to others. The query has correctness when seen from the viewpoint of the Wanderers within that incarnation.

89.39 Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as Ra was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with a harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

89.40 Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into fourth-density negative and, the veil being removed, they realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.

89.41 Questioner: Then did they continue striving to polarize negatively for a fifth-density negative harvest or did they do something else?

Ra: I am Ra. They worked with the fourth-density negative for some period until, within this framework, the previously learned patterns of the self had been recaptured and the polarity was, with great effort, reversed. There was a great deal of fourth-density positive work then to be retraced.

89.42 Questioner: How is Ra aware of this information? By what means does Ra know the precise orientation of these two entities in fourth-density negative, etc.?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities joined Ra in fourth-density positive for a portion of the cycle which we experienced.

89.43 Questioner: I assume, then, that they came in late. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

This is another example of extreme strong negative karma for a positive wanderer :

Quote:69.10 Questioner: Now, has a Wanderer ever been so infringed upon by, shall I say, a negative adept or whoever and then placed in negative time/space?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

69.11 Questioner: Can you tell me of the situation that the Wanderer finds itself in and why the path back cannot be the simple moving back into the same value of positive time/space?

Ra: I am Ra. The path back revolves, firstly, about the higher self’s reluctance to enter negative space/time. This may be a significant part of the length of that path. Secondly, when a positively oriented entity incarnates in a thoroughly negative environment it must needs learn/teach the lessons of the love of self thus becoming one with its other-selves.

When this has been accomplished the entity may then choose to release the potential difference and change polarities.

However, the process of learning the accumulated lessons of love of self may be quite lengthy. Also the entity, in learning these lessons, may lose much positive orientation during the process and the choice of reversing polarities may be delayed until the mid-sixth density. All of this is, in your way of measurement, time-consuming although the end result is well.

In the end I think karma simply creates bonds and all bonds reach the positive love and wisdom. The relationship people have with one another in a lifetime is literally nothing of how deeply they will be (and are) bonded with one another. More than just across lifetimes, it is across the densities themselves and ultimately time itself.

I think being karmically involved implies that spirit was transformed to the extent of requiring lessons to move back to an equivalent of its previous state. That, or plain manifesting the opposite of your intent in incarnating, becoming yourself catalyst of the karma you sought to help in resolving.
Is there also a form of negative forgiveness that can break the cycle of karma? You often see villains in movies saying that their unloving act of another wasn't personal - Its just business. What if a negatively polarizing 'victim' agrees?

Is it a form of forgiveness[or insert other term here] that can break the cycle of karma if the harmed party says or thinks "I agree, it wasn't personal, it was just business, and if I was in your position I would do the same unloving act because of all we both care is about power. It's cool, I'm not taking it personally."
(02-24-2018, 02:28 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]Is there also a form of negative forgiveness that can break the cycle of karma? You often see villains in movies saying that their unloving act of another wasn't personal - Its just business. What if a negatively polarizing 'victim' agrees?

Is it a form of forgiveness[or insert other term here] that can break the cycle of karma if the harmed party says or thinks "I agree, it wasn't personal, it was just business, and if I was in your position I would do the same unloving act because of all we both care is about power. It's cool, I'm not taking it personally."

I think the 'victim' has to find forgiveness whatever the negative other-self's explanation, or lack thereof, is. It is its own honor/duty.

I don't resonate with the idea that it can be not personal. I am more of the impression the victim always reflect a rejected aspect of the negative entity, which to begin with, is what allows it to be negative toward this aspect of itself. Like the elite probably have their own view of humanity, which is tied to the things they reject within that is dualized in the masses, can be as simple as a rejection for weak will, low intelligence, being manipulable, powerlessness, innocence, compassion, etc. The only way to be negative is to be heavily blocked, because a free flow finds the heart naturally.
As a child, I was highly unloving to others.

But as I became older I became more loving.

I think if we make amends for what we've done, we can alleviate karma.

I don't recall though if I ever violated anyone's free will.
(02-24-2018, 06:51 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I think if we make amends for what we've done, we can alleviate karma.

I think a need to make amend is a blockage to find full forgiveness. It's not that making amend is not good, it certainly is, but that you have a personal reason to need to so that you find to forgive your own self. In having forgiven and being without need to make amend, you're still with potential to do good, simply not through the lenses of fear, doubt and shame.

I always felt this way with apologies, I dislike receiving them even more than I dislike giving them. Most of every time in my life someone has given me an apology, it left me feeling awkward like I didn't need them because I didn't feel like I had anything to forgive. Same the other way around, if I don't lack forgiveness toward myself then apologies don't make sense to be offered, I wish the other person to release their grudge for themselves more than I want to be seen as acceptable and fight for it, and to find forgiveness means to accept yourself as the mental image you held, and this requires inner work and facing your own emotions. I guess it's maybe because I'm strong in being without expectations, when I see shortcomings in others I feel more like I learn about them than I feel a contrast with how I've wanted them to be; if I discover someone has anger issues, then I contemplate what it means to be stuck with anger and how it tends to erupt in focused contexts where it seems disproportionate to that moment but yet was really accumulated over time and from different sources, how sometimes repressing it makes it erupt only in the most proximate people in one's life to maintain an image of being without it with others. From this, then I can see the intelligence of anger, it's rightfulness to find expression and nothing is unacceptable so much as it can be seen and understood as a fate, a story, each unique. I felt this way before even learning of Oneness, and perceiving each self as literally one another in different circumstances to realize the same inner self. I guess before where I intuitively saw Oneness in was life, I saw each person as an expression of life and so something to be understood.

Anyway, what stops the wheel of karma is forgiveness, for only in forgiveness are the charges truly released, rather than accumulated until they are so strong they need to be passed unto other-selves to find to be distilled finally. Karma moves from one to the others in this way, always an energy seeking to be understood and accepted, to find to be transmuted in forgiveness. In forgiving as a self, you stop the energy from propagating twisted through you, and instead alleviate it.
I think a basic function of a sincere apology, aside from any spiritual implications, is to communicate to someone whom we have hurt that we are acknowledging having hurt them; which implies that we, having taken cognizance of that fact, intend to avoid repeating the same action(s).

For the very same reason, refusing to apologize leaves the other person free to assume that we simply don't care about the impact of our behavior on them, and wouldn't be bothered by doing whatever we did again at the next similar opportunity.

Very different social messages.