Hello,
I am working on clarification of the density/chakra link.
My understanding is that the first three density's relate to our first three chakra's and as we move through these density's we are in a physical 3d world like this one. And to move through the chakra's/densitys we need to relate to our environment mostly focusing on physical survival. Then as we go higher into third density we start our evolution into the higher realms of thought where we begin to put more importance on soul/spirit evolution which is the start of opening the heart (STO) in realizing we need each other and we all have an effect on the whole.
I was recently watching a video on youtube about the Mayans and 2012...In it William Henry (I haven't read any of his books but I recognize the name) say's that when we align with the galactic center what happens is a wormhole opens and only those who go through the wormhole go on to the next world. The one's who do not go have to start all over again.
The reason I bring that up is because that visual actually helped me gain an understanding of the Ra material.
I imagine the wormhole Henry speaks of to be the heart chakra and I see that chakras 1,2,3 and 5,6,7 are separated by the fourth chakra (I see it like the figure 8) and in opening the heart chakra it opens a gateway between the two spheres (eventually completing into a complete circle). So with this understanding I have a question. Maybe someone can point to the session- if there is one- that answers this...
Is fourth density an actual density or is it more of wormhole- gateway?
If the fourth chakra/density could be considered the veil (or the crimp in the circle creating the figure 8) then the widening of that crimp and moving through would be more of a door (gateway) than an actual density. Please feel free to clarify if I have erred in my understanding.
Also in visualizing the process in this way I have a limited understanding how one would get around such a gateway (STS). The only way I could see it happening is if one made the gateway so small that one moved past it or around it by force. So if this is the case then this is why Ra said that the STS path takes such disciplined dedication. (not an exact quote-my own words-)
I thought I understood when I read the books but actually being able to visualize this has made it more real to me.
I would very much like some feedback and discussion on this...I apologize if this has been brought up in another thread, I have not read them all.
zanny
Very interesting topic. I look forward to seeing the responses from the forum members.
Well I'll share my two cents worth. The 4th density is in my opinion always around us and we are passing thru it's doorways and gateways all the time without even knowing it. 4th density is the ghosts and shadows and reflections that haunt this world and are around us so often we've become blind to them. 4th density is the paranormal and creepy stuff that goes bump in the night and a lot of it is energy forms or phantoms of energy patterns. I saw a bumper sticker not long ago that said "What is the speed of dark?" and I laughed cause I've also been thinking that there are a lot of 4th density energy beings using cars, trees, plants and animals and stuff as 3d thought forms. Think of it like the movie Transformers except the robots stay in car form and are actually more like ghost ships cause time isn't as much an issue. 4th density is the hardest one to accept and figure out because it is frightening and when you realize that everything that is around us is nothing but energy then anything can possibly be haunted by a 4th dimensional/density citizen.
Myself as a grown up child have come to accept that it's okay to have an imaginary friend again and not be scared by the spooky strange noises I hear around me. In fact I've come to accept that there my be a whole squadron of ghostly 4th dimensional passengers along spectating on the ride of my life. I think of them as family and family is tied directly to the heart chakra for sure so who am I to say no to having some tag alongs.
Oh and you visit the 4th density all the time in your dreams. Speaking of dreams it's time I go to sleep.
As per Ra- 4th density is an actual density just like 3D or 5D. So it is not just a door or a transition point but another level of illusion in the game we are playing...
But I like the idea about the wormhole. In Cassiopian transcript they talk about how people with knowledge will move from 3D to 4D using these worm holes ( I don't think they used that word though).
I believe Ra said that 3D invariably involves Veil as it is the part of game where we are suppose to make right choices without knowing that we are all part of ONE. That is why trust and faith play a major role in 3D. Now this veil can be thinner or very thick. And many sources have concluded that this veil on earth has been really very dense and that is why the feeling of separation is really heavy but at the same time the opportunity to Accelerate when the veil starts to get thinner like now are huge... I think the veil completely disappear in the 4th D.
4D is the density of love and understanding. The way STS and STO differ is that 4+ will make social memory complexes and become really very close and loving to each other (It is alike a flat organization structure) while STS in 4- will be more loving to themselves and start a hierarchical, powerful goes to the top and rules the next level of hierarchy and so on (very military like command and control organization structure)...
Again this is just how Ra explained it, in my own words/understanding. But that does not mean that there can not be other suitable explanations like the one you brought forward...
Great topic, zanny, thanks for the stimulating starting point for discussion.
My understanding is that density refers to how much energy and speed of vibration occurs. Think about driving a car. As the engine runs faster the wheels go faster. After a certain point, as engine power increases there is a need to shift to another gear. The gear shift is like the move from one density to another.
It would be possible to drive around a parking lot in fourth gear, but not very efficient. In order to go from the highway to the parking lot, we have to use a lower gear that is appropriate for the slow-motion move through narrow conditions. Higher density beings like Ra need to leave their normal density or gear and shift way, way down to be able to join us. We are in our virtual parking lot compared to their level of exploration cruising around the universe. This is why Ra says that fourth density and above is usually invisible to us in 3D. They can shift down, but only do so if there's a good reason to pull into the lot in order to help us get unstuck.
The thing about ascension is that most of us do not have the clutch under voluntary control. Our lives are spinning faster. Now the universe is giving us a once in 25,000 year opportunity to shift into neutral for a moment, then pop into the next higher gear of spiritual evolution. If we miss this moment, the clutch comes back up and we get another 25,000 years in third gear.
Well the analogy does not work completely but it might help.
thefool, I am extremely wary of the other source you mentioned. I believe their initial positivity has been corrupted by a service-to-self hierarchy of salvation for the clever. I believe this contradicts the Law of One teaching that evolution and salvation has nothing at all to do with being clever enough to solve riddles and figure out puzzles. We are welcome to use our minds this way if we like, but the key to our spiritual growth is opening and cleansing all chakras/rays and seeking to share love and light in each moment. This is about character and willpower, not cleverness. I won't go into that further here, but would be willing to continue this exploration when the new forum is up to discuss outside channeling sources.
Another definition of Density might be: ability to perceive and to act within a comprehensive level of spiritual development. Higher density is not necessarily thicker, like the difference between water, jello, or pudding. Instead, higher density is an ability to receive, process, and make choices in a more detailed and more powerful way.
It is really hard to find the right analogy but maybe something in here is useful. If not, please feel free to set it aside.
(09-04-2010, 02:16 PM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]thefool, I am extremely wary of the other source you mentioned. I believe their initial positivity has been corrupted by a service-to-self hierarchy of salvation for the clever. I believe this contradicts the Law of One teaching that evolution and salvation has nothing at all to do with being clever enough to solve riddles and figure out puzzles. We are welcome to use our minds this way if we like, but the key to our spiritual growth is opening and cleansing all chakras/rays and seeking to share love and light in each moment. This is about character and willpower, not cleverness. I won't go into that further here, but would be willing to continue this exploration when the new forum is up to discuss outside channeling sources.
I don't know what you are talking about
It seems you just took off on a tangent LOL !!! I just said that this concept was mentioned in their script. That is not an endorsement of their views...what did i miss ???
Sorry about the tangent. My point is that I'm really wary about that particular source and their emphasis on "people with knowledge," as though hidden knowledge, cleverness and study are the keys to enlightenment. Ra specifically said that we are in a density that is not one of understanding, that our spiritual growth is from healing ourselves and having unity between each other... which is not dependent on ingenuity or research. If you like I will edit or pull my post, you can edit your response and we can clear out the tangent.
(09-04-2010, 03:12 PM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry about the tangent. My point is that I'm really wary about that particular source and their emphasis on "people with knowledge," as though hidden knowledge, cleverness and study are the keys to enlightenment. Ra specifically said that we are in a density that is not one of understanding, that our spiritual growth is from healing ourselves and having unity between each other... which is not dependent on ingenuity or research. If you like I will edit or pull my post, you can edit your response and we can clear out the tangent.
You are fine. Now I understand where you were coming from. Thanks for clarifying.
I think the true unity comes from understanding and resolving our differences or apparent differences. Not just paper over them, that would be superficial unity.
So thank you for indulging me in understanding you...
As far as that source is concerned, I kind of agree with you. They went stray with different individual in the group suing each other etc. And I don't consider them a high quality source but that has not stopped me from reading them or learning more about them.
The discussion about knowledge is a long one and may lead this thread in a different direction. But in short my understanding about knowledge is that it is a result of our actions and understanding of the laws of universe, not just some mental (physical mind) book rote... The true knowledge goes deeper and can not be forgotten as it is part of our cells and dna and entire being... Like the knowledge deep within us of the UNITY. That is why there is so much hankering within us to find that joy and happiness that we experienced when we KNEW we are one and with God. It is all about RE-MEMBER-ING...
Questioner: Where are these three entities now?
Ra: I am Ra. These entities are in the dimension known to you as fourth. Therefore the space/time continua are not compatible. An approximation of the space/time locus of each would net no actual understanding. Each chose a fourth-density planet which was dedicated to the pursuit of the understanding of the Law of One through service to self, one in what you know as the Orion group, one in what you know as Cassiopeia, one in what you know as Southern Cross; however, these loci are not satisfactory. We do not have vocabulary for the geometric calculations necessary for transfer of this understanding to you.
(09-05-2010, 06:14 AM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]Questioner: Where are these three entities now?
Ra: I am Ra. These entities are in the dimension known to you as fourth. Therefore the space/time continua are not compatible. An approximation of the space/time locus of each would net no actual understanding. Each chose a fourth-density planet which was dedicated to the pursuit of the understanding of the Law of One through service to self, one in what you know as the Orion group, one in what you know as Cassiopeia, one in what you know as Southern Cross; however, these loci are not satisfactory. We do not have vocabulary for the geometric calculations necessary for transfer of this understanding to you.
Thanks for the Quote- Ashim
What are the chances that Ra talked about- Fourth Density, Cassiopeia and Understanding all in one single quote.
The same things we were talking about...
Yes, Ashim, I think that's the same group. But I'd like to set that aside until the new forum area. Let's focus on helping with Zanny's original question of what is 4D.
Zanny, instead of a wormhole or gate to pass through, 4D seems to me to be a speed or energy level of vibration. Imagine the freeway: if you are not driving fast enough, you will not be able to merge in and participate in the flow of traffic. Or electricity: your home is wired for a few hundred volts, to participate in the broader power grid beyond your neighborhood you will need wires and transformers that can handle thousands of volts.
Ra describes the entry point to 4D as a spiritual experience in which increasing amounts of spiritual Light are provided to the entity. When the entity says "that's enough for me, thanks, I can't handle any more now," that is the entity's level from the sorting process.
Those who have enough of their own healing and clearing work done will be eager to accept these more demanding circumstances, and they will have the capacity to participate. All the Harvest discussions from Ra seem to me to say that there is no external judge deciding for us, we simply respond to the opportunity at the level of intensity that is right for us.
I apologize for not responding sooner, my internet was down for awhile....
I appreciate the responses thus far...
(09-04-2010, 06:25 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]Very interesting topic. I look forward to seeing the responses from the forum members.
As do I...I invite you to share what you found interesting about it.
(09-04-2010, 09:37 AM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ]As per Ra- 4th density is an actual density just like 3D or 5D. So it is not just a door or a transition point but another level of illusion in the game we are playing...
(09-04-2010, 02:16 PM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Great topic, zanny, thanks for the stimulating starting point for discussion.
My understanding is that density refers to how much energy and speed of vibration occurs. Think about driving a car. As the engine runs faster the wheels go faster. After a certain point, as engine power increases there is a need to shift to another gear. The gear shift is like the move from one density to another.
Another definition of Density might be: ability to perceive and to act within a comprehensive level of spiritual development.
So...I'm thinking that the way I am visualizing it is true but- as you both have pointed out- maybe limited...
I guess the answer to my question is that the 4th density is a true density but it is also a gateway/wormhole to the higher 5,6,7 density's.
I still see the fourth as being the one that separates the 1,2,3 from the 5,6,7 similar to the figure 8 as I described before.
(09-05-2010, 11:39 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ].
Zanny, instead of a wormhole or gate to pass through, 4D seems to me to be a speed or energy level of vibration.
So if we open our fourth chakra to a point that is compatible with fourth density vibration then a gateway opens, that allows for entry to that density or higher depending on the amount of vibration that is comfortable...I'm still seeing it as a gateway/ wormhole.
I am also confused... lol
zanny
(09-05-2010, 03:11 PM)zanny Wrote: [ -> ]So if we open our fourth chakra to a point that is compatible with fourth density vibration then a gateway opens, that allows for entry to that density or higher depending on the amount of vibration that is comfortable...I'm still seeing it as a gateway/ wormhole.
I am also confused... lol
My understanding is that you are right on target except for two points.
It is not how much the fourth chakra is open. It is the total energy flow through ALL of our chakras. If we have some chakras open but some closed off, we are limited just like a pipe with some kinks or obstructions.
Also it is not that a gate opens up for us, but it is our own ability to receive and handle that higher spiritual energy.
I love that we can have this forum and get so many different perspectives on what this all means.
(09-05-2010, 03:11 PM)zanny Wrote: [ -> ]So if we open our fourth chakra to a point that is compatible with fourth density vibration then a gateway opens, that allows for entry to that density or higher depending on the amount of vibration that is comfortable...I'm still seeing it as a gateway/ wormhole.
In one sense it is a gateway as it ushers in the higher vibrational worlds and levels available to the entity. But I see gateway as a point of transition, something like a train station, you don't stay there for long. In that sense 4th can not be considered as a gateway. In that sense 3rd should be a gateway as it separates the trains you can take from that point on. You can take a 4D+ or a 4D- train or destination. Also I believe Ra has said 3D to be the shortest density in terms of time, very short...
also while looking I found this informative quote from Ra-
Quote:"
You will recall that we went into some detail as to how those not oriented towards seeking service for others yet, nevertheless, found and could use the gateway to intelligent infinity. This is true at all densities in our octave. We cannot speak for those above us, as you would say, in the next quantum or octave of beingness. This is, however, true of this octave of density. The beings are harvested because they can see and enjoy the light/love of the appropriate density. Those who have found this light/love, love/light without benefit of a desire for service to others nevertheless, by the Law of Free Will, have the right to the use of that light/love for whatever purpose. Also, it may be inserted that there are systems of study which enable the seeker of separation to gain these gateways.
"
(09-05-2010, 03:43 PM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2010, 03:11 PM)zanny Wrote: [ -> ]So if we open our fourth chakra to a point that is compatible with fourth density vibration then a gateway opens, that allows for entry to that density or higher depending on the amount of vibration that is comfortable...I'm still seeing it as a gateway/ wormhole.
I am also confused... lol
My understanding is that you are right on target except for two points.
It is not how much the fourth chakra is open. It is the total energy flow through ALL of our chakras. If we have some chakras open but some closed off, we are limited just like a pipe with some kinks or obstructions.
Also it is not that a gate opens up for us, but it is our own ability to receive and handle that higher spiritual energy.
Thank you, I understand your point and appreciate the clarification.
Quote:I love that we can have this forum and get so many different perspectives on what this all means.
This is a wonderful place to explore and open perspective.
(09-05-2010, 07:03 PM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2010, 03:11 PM)zanny Wrote: [ -> ]So if we open our fourth chakra to a point that is compatible with fourth density vibration then a gateway opens, that allows for entry to that density or higher depending on the amount of vibration that is comfortable...I'm still seeing it as a gateway/ wormhole.
In one sense it is a gateway as it ushers in the higher vibrational worlds and levels available to the entity. But I see gateway as a point of transition, something like a train station, you don't stay there for long. In that sense 4th can not be considered as a gateway. In that sense 3rd should be a gateway as it separates the trains you can take from that point on. You can take a 4D+ or a 4D- train or destination. Also I believe Ra has said 3D to be the shortest density in terms of time, very short...
I see what you mean by a gateway being a point of transition...
I did some searching and found this quote which I believe is relevant to this discussion...(in bold)
Quote:Green Ray
Questioner: I meant was it possible for a green ray person who is primarily of green ray activation to vary on both sides of the green ray in a large or a small amount in regards to energy activation, or is he primarily green ray?
Ra: I am Ra. We grasp the newness of material requested by you. It was unclear, for we thought we had covered this material. The portion covered is this: the green ray activation is always vulnerable to the yellow or orange ray of possession, this being largely yellow ray but often coming into orange ray. Fear of possession, desire for possession, fear of being possessed, desire to be possessed: these are the distortions which will cause the deactivation of green ray energy transfer.
The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite worth. This will begin to activate the indigo ray.
So in that case it could be a "short" time before moving on to fifth density...all depending on the individual.
I do want to point out that while I am in this frame of mind, that what I read and seek will be colored by the fact that I am seeking to confirm a theory or an understanding...I understand this and note that my view right now must be very biased in that direction. Please forgive me if I have brought about any confusion in anyone else's personal understanding while seeking to confirm or widen my own.
Take my words with a grain of salt...For I am a seeker still seeking.
zanny
In a sense, third density would be the wormhole, being that it is a mere 75,000 years. It's like a high speed jump from second to fourth densities, one which takes billions of years, and the other which takes, minimally, 75 million years. Additionally, this 3rd density can be used to springboard to any of the higher densities, and again, as such, it would be in that sense the only true "wormhole density".
Alternately, I would say that densities might be grouped :
1st, 2nd, 3rd, densities of being, and
4th, 5th, and 6th, densities of learning.
7th blends to 8th/1st which is the end and beginning density of the octave, just as 1st and 2nd blend into a natural harmony of existence.
Though I understand what was portrayed as a wormhole, the coming galactic event, this is a rather limited view. I would suggest a more accurate term would be "the galactic wave", flowing over/through/by Earth and changing the frequency of illusory matter as it passes.
Zanny, I was just about to post that exact quote, and bold that exact same part! Haha! Once you hit green ray, the process of activating the blue energy center is just waiting for you to start.
Ra talks about the function of fourth density as being a
springboard to the higher densities. (I'm not sure if that applies to just positive growth as opposed to negative, or both) Searching lawofone.info for "springboard" brings up this:
http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...der=0&ss=1
In all those instances, however, Ra is talking about a third density entity, and its energy centers. But I think it can be loosely applied to the properties of the progression through the actual densities themselves too.
I respectfully disagree. Working in the etoliated higher densities is not the same as doing work in the third density. The green ray activation, while in the third density, is the springboard to which Ra speaks. Ra even said this exactly.
Quote:15.12 Ra:... The center of heart, or green-ray, is the center from which third-density beings may springboard, shall we say, to infinite intelligence. Blockages in this area may manifest as difficulties in expressing what you may call universal love or compassion.
(09-05-2010, 08:45 PM)zanny Wrote: [ -> ]I do want to point out that while I am in this frame of mind, that what I read and seek will be colored by the fact that I am seeking to confirm a theory or an understanding...I understand this and note that my view right now must be very biased in that direction. Please forgive me if I have brought about any confusion in anyone else's personal understanding while seeking to confirm or widen my own.
LOL. Thank you for this honesty. I do the same thing.
(09-05-2010, 11:03 PM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]In all those instances, however, Ra is talking about a third density entity, and its energy centers. But I think it can be loosely applied to the properties of the progression through the actual densities themselves too.
(09-06-2010, 01:14 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]I respectfully disagree. Working in the etoliated higher densities is not the same as doing work in the third density. The green ray activation, while in the third density, is the springboard to which Ra speaks. Ra even said this exactly.
I think you're both right. Ra was talking about third-density entities in the springboard quote, but they do also say that fourth density can be abbreviated if the social memory complex is ready.
Quote:43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?
Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.
Great topic. As I understand, the veil is the separation between 3D s/t and t/s, not between 3D and 4D. The theory that I subscribe to is about 3 days of darkness/stasis where many will sleep for 3 days as transition is made. There is a prophecy that we will go through the sun into the new dimension during this time. One of the sunspots will open up and it will be dark inside.
Nassim Haramein shows some footage in one of his videos how planet-sized UFOs are using the sun for transporting. It's possible the Earth and the solar system will follow a method like this.
This is may be a touch off topic here but how dose the veil function in the upper octaves of 3D? When entities of this density are not in an incarnation.
I guess all the octaves are on the same timeline, but I'd assume the veil is thinner there if it exists at all.
All the octaves of this density will shift together I assume, and that must be strange for entities that will not be staying for more 3D experience with the Earth..... If that makes sense.
I've not found that in any books yet, dose anyone know of any quotes on it?
I just now discovered this thread. Missed it back then. I think there's some merit in this idea.
(08-01-2012, 01:43 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I just now discovered this thread. Missed it back then. I think there's some merit in this idea.
Perfectly timed pump Monica thankyou.
I think the discussion sums it up perfectly.
I feel the wormhole if you will, in the last 2 weeks I have remembered more then in my whole life, I feel the green ray is complete, it's the blue ray/indigo I can now feel really getting worked.
I felt like I almost faded away a few nights ago while contemplating indigo, very close we are.