Bring4th

These two quotes seem to contradict each other. One says that 4th and 5th density have equal numbers of Orionites, and other says that there are few 5th density beings. Or does 62.18 apply to just the entities at the top of the pecking order? What do you think?

Quote:62.18 ▶ Questioner: Then what do the ones at the top of the pecking order of the Orion group— well, let me first ask this: Are we talking about the fourth-density group now?

Ra: I am Ra. There are fourth and a few fifth-density members of the Orion group.

Quote:7.15 ▶ Questioner: What is the density of the Orion group?

Ra: I am Ra. Like the Confederation, the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization. Their numbers are perhaps one-tenth ours at any point in the space/time continuum as the problem of spiritual entropy causes them to experience constant disintegration of their social memory complexes. Their power is the same as ours. The Law of One blinks neither at the light or the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

Those seeking intelligent infinity through the use of service to self create the same amount of power but, as we said, have constant difficulty because of the concept of separation which is implicit in the manifestations of the service to self which involve power over others. This weakens and eventually disintegrates the energy collected by such mind/body/spirit complexes who call the Orion group and the social memory complexes which comprise the Orion group.

It should be noted, carefully pondered, and accepted, that the Law of One is available to any social memory complex which has decided to strive together for any seeking of purpose, be it service to others or service to self. The laws, which are the primal distortions of the Law of One, then are placed into operation and the illusion of space/time is used as a medium for the development of the results of those choices freely made. Thus all entities learn, no matter what they seek. All learn the same, some rapidly, some slowly.

Edit:

Then we have another one that contradicts the second quote.

Quote:48.6 ▶ Questioner: Thank you. That cleared it up very well. A very important point. Can you tell me how positive and negative polarizations in fourth and fifth density are used to cause work in consciousness?

Ra: I am Ra. There is very little work in consciousness in fourth and in fifth densities compared to the work done in third density. The work that is accomplished in positive fourth is that work whereby the positive social memory complex, having, through slow stages, harmoniously integrated itself, goes forth to aid those of less positive orientation which seek their aid. Thus their service is their work and through this dynamic between the societal self and the other-self which is the object of love, greater and greater intensities of understanding or compassion are attained. This intensity continues until the appropriate intensity of the light may be welcomed. This is fourth-density harvest.

Within fourth-density positive there are minor amounts of catalyst of a spiritual and mental complex distortion. This occurs during the process of harmonizing to the extent of forming the social memory complex. This causes some small catalyst and work to occur, but the great work of fourth density lies in the contact betwixt the societal self and less polarized other-self.

In fourth-density negative much work is accomplished during the fighting for position which precedes the period of the social memory complex. There are opportunities to polarize negatively by control of other-selves. During the social memory complex period of fourth-density negative the situation is the same. The work takes place through the societal reaching out to less polarized other-self in order to aid in negative polarization.

In fifth-density positive and negative the concept of work done through a potential difference is not particularly helpful as fifth-density entities are, again, intensifying rather than potentiating.

In positive, the fifth-density complex uses sixth-density teach/learners to study the more illuminated understandings of unity thus becoming more and more wise. Fifth-density positive social memory complexes often will choose to divide their service to others in two ways: first, the beaming of light to creation; second, the sending of groups to be of aid as instruments of light such as those whom you’re familiar with through channels.

In fifth-density negative, service to self has become extremely intense and the self has shrunk or compacted so that the dialogues with the teach/learners are used exclusively in order to intensify wisdom. There are very, very few fifth-density negative Wanderers for they fear the forgetting. There are very, very few fifth-density Orion members for they do not any longer perceive any virtue in other-selves.

I have seen this discrepancy before, the only thing I can think of is that the concept of "orion group" can be interpreted two ways, and so the communication gets confused.

One way is to interpret it as the whole of the negative thought complex, which involves not only the social memory complexes which go on crusades through space and time in order to recruit souls to their complex, but also those higher density beings (5th and 6th) which are negative, but which no longer are involved with the organisation, having a reached a level of development in which they can progress without the use of others, having already learned the lessons of self-love which competing in a negative memory complex teaches.

The other way is to interpret it as only those beings which actively crusade, which excludes those high-density beings who have disconnected from the organisation in order to progress in a solitary manner, which is apparently most of them.

I am not certain about this though, so regard the information here as speculative.

I'd guess one of two things: (1) transmission error or (2) The quotes are consistent. Most of the higher rank Orions are fourth and a few are fifth density. However, there are a lot of lower rank Orions in fifth as well and maybe in sixth. Perhaps the lower rank indicates they are retiring or otherwise not interested in controlling others as much as they longer see any value whatsoever in the otherself - something that Ra talks about in another session.

Edit: Posted this before reading the above reply, but it seems we both came to the same speculation.

Ah yes, that is 48.6. After reading that transcript, I'm thinking there is a transmission error in "There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization." Since two transcripts now run in contradiction to it.

(03-26-2018, 11:53 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]I'd guess one of two things: (1) transmission error or (2) The quotes are consistent. Most of the higher rank Orions are fourth and a few are fifth density. However, there are a lot of lower rank Orions in fifth as well and maybe in sixth. Perhaps the lower rank indicates they are retiring or otherwise not interested in controlling others as much as they longer see any value whatsoever in the otherself - something that Ra talks about in another session.

Edit: Posted this before reading the above reply, but it seems we both came to the same speculation.

I already know the contradiction between 7.15 and 62.18. But, about 48.6 I believe Ra was talking about wanderers of fifth density of Orion Group.

"Larger number of 4ths, a similarly large number of 5ths."

and

"Not many 5ths for they do not see virtue in..."

To me, means, even when put together and comparing their largest 4th and 5th groups, it is a small group.

It is like saying there is 1 3rd density, 5 4th density, 5 5th density and 3 6th density, while there are 50.000 4th density STO's in the group

I have a slightly different understanding and it may not be right. I believe in session 7, Ra is actually talking about percentages of negative and positive entities, not necessarily official Orion and Confederation numbers. Then later when Ra is talking about the Orion GROUP, Ra says that most negative 5th density entities do not see virtue/value in the grouping of entities, so they work alone.

Rereading the material, it seems to me that there was an error in session 7, because Ra was clear that it was Orion's group:

Quote:Like the Confederation, the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization.

(7.15)

Well, Ra had some problems with numbers, so it's always a good idea to review what we can do when it comes to numbers. It makes more sense to me that there are few fifth density entities in the Orion group, for two reasons. First, because there are two responses against one. And second, the explanation of 48.6 is illuminating, the 5D entity seeks maximum separation. Even a negative group is something that limits your own ability to separate yourself from the rest of the universe. So, the Orion group should be mostly composed of 4D entities and only the leaders being fifth.

In hierarchical, authoritarian systems, a few always rule over many. I'd say the 4d is probably most prevalent, with smaller numbers of 5d and 6d. If they had more higher density, their system wouldn't work as effectively, because there would be "too many chiefs and not enough Indians"(sort of the way they would see it), so those 5 and 6d that find the organization a bit too crowded and competitive would go their own way. That is an odd discrepancy though. How many years apart are those quotes? The way time and space work the Orion Empire could look very different in the span of 20 of our years, which could have been a long time for them or connect to another timeline/probability of them where the numbers have changed, or are different.

imho 20 years is but a blink of an eye for 4 and 5 densities, which last for millions of years as we measure time.

(04-23-2020, 10:16 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: [ -> ]In hierarchical, authoritarian systems, a few always rule over many. I'd say the 4d is probably most prevalent, with smaller numbers of 5d and 6d. If they had more higher density, their system wouldn't work as effectively, because there would be "too many chiefs and not enough Indians"(sort of the way they would see it), so those 5 and 6d that find the organization a bit too crowded and competitive would go their own way.

Well, that makes sense.

(04-23-2020, 10:16 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: [ -> ]How many years apart are those quotes? The way time and space work the Orion Empire could look very different in the span of 20 of our years, which could have been a long time for them or connect to another timeline/probability of them where the numbers have changed, or are different.

I think that 20 years is very little from the perspective of other densities.

I don't think this is really a discrepancy.

62.20 Questioner: What is the objective; what does the, shall we say, the leader, the one at the very top of the pecking order in fifth-density Orion, have as an objective? I would like to understand his philosophy with respect to his objectives and plans for what we might call the future or his future?

Ra: I am Ra. This thinking will not be so strange to you. Therefore, we may speak through the densities as your planet has some negatively oriented action in sway at this space/time nexus.

The early fifth-density negative entity, if oriented towards maintaining cohesion as a social memory complex, may in its free will determine that the path to wisdom lies in the manipulation in exquisite propriety of all other-selves. It then, by virtue of its abilities in wisdom, is able to be the leader of fourth-density beings which are upon the road to wisdom by exploring the dimensions of love of self and understanding of self. These fifth-density entities see the creation as that which shall be put in order.

7.16 Questioner: Using as an example a fifth-density group or social memory complex of the Orion group, what was their previous density before they became fifth density?

Ra: I am Ra. The progress through densities is sequential. A fifth-density social memory complex would be comprised of mind/body/spirit complexes harvested from fourth density. Then the conglomerate or mass mind/body/spirit complex does its melding and the results are due to the infinitely various possibilities of combination of distortions.

So we know that Orion has a great number of 4th density member groups. Which have to eventually proceed to 5th density. Once a group proceeds to 5th density negative, they decide whether to maintain the social memory complex and lead other 4th density negative groups, or whether to seek wisdom outside of a social memory complex.

While speculation and never asked in the LOO, I think the answer in session 7 included the non-active alumni for lack of a better term. While the latter two answers were specifically dealing with active participation.

(04-24-2020, 08:26 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2020, 10:16 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: [ -> ]In hierarchical, authoritarian systems, a few always rule over many. I'd say the 4d is probably most prevalent, with smaller numbers of 5d and 6d. If they had more higher density, their system wouldn't work as effectively, because there would be "too many chiefs and not enough Indians"(sort of the way they would see it), so those 5 and 6d that find the organization a bit too crowded and competitive would go their own way.

Well, that makes sense.

(04-23-2020, 10:16 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: [ -> ]How many years apart are those quotes? The way time and space work the Orion Empire could look very different in the span of 20 of our years, which could have been a long time for them or connect to another timeline/probability of them where the numbers have changed, or are different.

I think that 20 years is very little from the perspective of other densities.

Obviously in a purely linear sense, 20 years is nothing to higher densities. I'm not expert, I'm just saying that when dealing with distances between star systems and perhaps multiple timelines/probability vortices, things aren't always that clear cut.

(04-24-2020, 08:44 AM)Dtris Wrote: [ -> ]So we know that Orion has a great number of 4th density member groups. Which have to eventually proceed to 5th density. Once a group proceeds to 5th density negative, they decide whether to maintain the social memory complex and lead other 4th density negative groups, or whether to seek wisdom outside of a social memory complex.

While speculation and never asked in the LOO, I think the answer in session 7 included the non-active alumni for lack of a better term. While the latter two answers were specifically dealing with active participation.

Understand. It makes a little bit of sense, although we have no way of getting a definitive clarification on that.

July 1, 1990

Quote:...In fifth density positive and negative, one finds a good deal of isolation of entities, both positive and negative seeking the path that is its unique path, holding finally the wisdom of knowing itself totally. However, in fifth density positive, there is the constant flowing back towards community and communion, the communal meals, the communal services of worship and adoration to the one infinite Creator, and the happy blending of mates and friendship.

In fifth density negative, there is nothing for the fifth density entity but the cave, the rock, the solitude and the seeking...

A key to resolving the apparent contradiction is that in session 7, "mass consciousnesses" are mentioned, i.e. groupings or complexes of individual consciousnesses. (When the word "entity" is mentioned for 6D at the end of the listing, it may be that a 6D entity is always a type of mass consciousness.) While distinct beings seem to be mentioned when it is said elsewhere that there are more in 4D than in 5D.

I.e., the 4D and 5D beings join into roughly the same number of mass consciousnesses, but there is a much larger number of 4D beings than 5D beings joining into mass consciousnesses.

There is a material mentioned in Law of One called OASPHE that is said to be of an alliance commission.

This OASPHE material has a definition for Orian/Orion/Orion Chief on PG 781;

" a one time mortal of this or another corporeal world, who is an administrator over some ethereal world for a term of office. An ethereal rank below Nirvanian."

Perhaps this explains further the complex of polarity with other dmensions..