Bring4th

In 47.8 Ra describes the seven bodies and your relationships with the color rays:

Quote:47.8 Questioner: In our esoteric literature numerous bodies are listed. I have here a list of the physical body, the etheric, the emotional, the astral, and the mental. Can you tell me if this listing is the proper number, and can you tell me the uses and purposes and effects, etc., of each of these or any other bodies that may be in our mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. To answer your query fully would be the work of many sessions such as this one, for the interrelationships of the various bodies and each body’s effects in various situations is an enormous study. However, we shall begin by referring your minds back to the spectrum of true colors and the usage of this understanding in grasping the various densities of your octave.

We have the number seven repeated from the macrocosm to the microcosm in structure and experience. Therefore, it would only be expected that there would be seven basic bodies which we would perhaps be most lucid by stating as red-ray body, etc. However, we are aware that you wish to correspond these bodies mentioned with the color rays. This will be confusing, for various teachers have offered their teach/learning understanding in various terms. Thus one may name a subtle body one thing and another find a different name.

The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.

The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings. Others have called this same body the etheric body. However, this is not correct in the sense that the etheric body is that body of gateway wherein intelligent energy is able to mold the mind/body/spirit complex.

The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.

The indigo-ray body which we choose to call the etheric body is, as we have said, the gateway body. In this body form is substance and you may only see this body as that of light as it may mold itself as it desires.

The violet-ray body may perhaps be understood as what you might call the Buddha body or that body which is complete.

Each of these bodies has an effect upon your mind/body/spirit complex in your life beingness. The interrelationships, as we have said, are many and complex.

Perhaps one suggestion that may be indicated is this: The indigo-ray body may be used by the healer once the healer becomes able to place its consciousness in this etheric state. The violet-ray or Buddhic body is of equal efficacy to the healer for within it lies a sense of wholeness which is extremely close to unity with all that there is. These bodies are part of each entity and the proper use of them and understanding of them is, though far advanced from the standpoint of third-density harvest, nevertheless useful to the adept.

I have no doubt that:

Yellow-ray body = physical body
Green-ray body = astral body
Blue-ray body = devachanic or mental body
Violet-ray body = buddhic body*

But, I have no idea if there is some correspondence in esoteric teachings to red and orange-ray bodies. Someone have any idea?

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Another question is about the indigo-ray body which Ra called "etheric body". In some esoteric schools the etheric body refers to a copy of the physical body, the energy body where the chakras are. So, is not the same concept. The Confederation calls this energy body as "electral body". Here a passage of Q'uo:

Quote:In fact, there is a part of your body which exists in time/space. It is the metaphysical or the time/space portion of your physical body. In some systems of philosophy it is called the chakra system. In others it might be called the electrical body. There are many names, in fact, if one examines the terms used in religions and systems of spiritual seeking for this unseen but causal body. It is, shall we say, the repository of the default settings for the body which was born into incarnation at your birth. The chakra[body] or the electrical-body contains the ideal or perfect system settings for your entire body system. These settings exist in the memory in each of your chakras.

So, the Confederation don't see the traditional etheric body as a real body, but just a metaphysical portion of the yellow-ray body or physical body. This makes sense, because the etheric body can't carry the consciouness, technically is not a veicule of consciouness.
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About the indigo-ray body, I suppose that is which is called "causal body" in esoteric teachings. Because Ra called this body "ka":

Quote:47.11 Questioner: Then, after death from this incarnation we still have the yellow-ray body in potentiation, but then is, perhaps, say in the general case of our planetary population after death, would they then normally have the green-ray body manifested?

Ra: I am Ra. Not immediately. The first body which activates itself upon death is the “form-maker” or the indigo-ray body. This body remains— you have called it the “ka”— until etherea has been penetrated and understanding has been gained by the mind/body/spirit totality. Once this is achieved, if the proper body to be activated is green-ray, then this will occur.

Ka was the word used to refer the soul. Causal body is the body of human soul. Someone think like this?__________________________________________________________________________________

*Is the Buddha someone who activated the Violet-ray body?

I wonder if the violet body is also called the rainbow body. I've heard stories of masters disappearing in a rainbow body of light.

(04-26-2018, 02:57 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:47.11 Questioner: Then, after death from this incarnation we still have the yellow-ray body in potentiation, but then is, perhaps, say in the general case of our planetary population after death, would they then normally have the green-ray body manifested?

Ra: I am Ra. Not immediately. The first body which activates itself upon death is the “form-maker” or the indigo-ray body. This body remains— you have called it the “ka”— until etherea has been penetrated and understanding has been gained by the mind/body/spirit totality. Once this is achieved, if the proper body to be activated is green-ray, then this will occur.

Ka was the word used to refer the soul. Causal body is the body of human soul. Someone think like this?__________________________________________________________________________________

*Is the Buddha someone who activated the Violet-ray body?

Infinite, thank you for the copying the passage off the seven bodies.

I have a question on the last quote, when I was studying that session.
Does it mean then that after death once it is said ' etherea has been penetrated and understanding has been gained ' Once achieved another proper body is activated as Ra says ? I mean Ra means this for the entity still being in the after death state, right, and another 'proper' body is activated.. For some reason, in my vulgar imagination, I would have thought the entity staying in indigo-ray for continuous study till new incarnation...

(04-26-2018, 04:41 PM)flofrog Wrote: [ -> ]Once achieved another proper body is activated as Ra says ?  I mean Ra means this for the entity still being in the after death state, right, and another 'proper' body is activated.. For some reason, in my vulgar imagination, I would have thought the entity staying in indigo-ray for continuous study till new incarnation...

Looks like the etheric or indigo-ray body is always activated first on the after-death. After the information be transmitted to the mind/body/spirit complex totality, the proper body is activated. But second Ra, this is not the ideal:

Quote:47.15 Questioner: What does the large percentage of the Earth’s population, as they pass from the physical, activate?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The normal procedure, given an harmonious passage from yellow-ray bodily manifestation, is for the mind and spirit complex to rest in the etheric or indigo body until such time as the entity begins its preparation for experience in an incarnated place which has a manifestation formed by the etheric energy molding it into activation and manifestation. This indigo body, being intelligent energy, is able to offer the newly dead, as you would term it, soul a perspective and a place from which to view the experience most recently manifested.

I’ve been studying the Qabalah this year and there are other esoteric teachings describing what you’re asking (Red/Orange rays).

So red ray would be the very basic unit of consciousness. In the Qabalah, this would correspond to the Guph, the purely physical body. Orange ray would correspond to the Nephesch, the emotional Astral counterpart of the physical body; The lower unconscious that also deals with automatic processes such as respiration and heartbeat. It’s connected to the emotions so it is always in flux. Being Nephesch dominated one is ruled by emotions and instincts.
The Guph would correspond to the Sephirah Malkuth and the Nephesch to Yesod. Then 8-4 compose the Ruach. Binah, 3 corresponds to the Neschamah, the Higher Self. Chockmah, 2 is the Chiah (as far as I can tell there is no correspondence in the Ra Material), and finally Kether 1 is the Crown, the Yechidah, the Divine Spark which “sustains the world’s and resides ever at the heart of Creation” (ourselves). It is this point to which we return. It would correspond to 8th density, imo.

The Qabalistic system doesn’t quite sync up with the seven chakra system as presented by Ra. There isn’t a one to one correspondence. But it’s a legitimate system in its own right. It works.

As we learned from the Ra Material, we have all bodies lying in potentiation. We contain the whole. Man is a microcosm of the macrocosm. So it is with the Qabalah. In the process of evolution we awaken the higher faculties within our psyche. Animals are living Nephesch consciousness for example, an instinctual life. Man has attainted the Ruach, and now works with the Nephesch and Ruach (emotional and mental). When man has done his inner work, i.e. the clearance of lower chakra blockages, he puts his Ruach faculty in its proper place, being the receptacle of the Higher faculties (the intuitive mind) rather than being a slave to the intellectual mind. This allows for the descent of the Holy Spirit. (The descent of the letter Shin in the midsts of the elemental Tetragrammaton. Tiphareth.) Having activated and opened the heart, the Neschamah is the next destination. This is the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. My ability to explain beyond this point is low. Please forgive me. One realizes his True Will and stives to fulfill it. He becomes an adept.

Some Spaced thoughts:

The red-ray body is the elements that make up the body: the water in your blood and cells; the minerals that make up your bones, cells and the iron in your blood; the air that you breathe in and which the blood transports to your cells; the fire that drives the production of energy in the cells through the process of cellular respiration, etc. I kind of see blood as the main medium through which this chemical body is expressed as it serves as a vehicle for these elements but that's probably not accurate.

The orange-ray body would be your physical body, muscles, bones, cells, various tissues etc. The body as a living creature in and of itself without awareness.

On the other hand the yellow-ray body would be your conscious awareness of your physical body. The body as it is experienced by a self-aware mind/body/spirit complex.

(04-26-2018, 02:57 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]I have no doubt that:

Yellow-ray body = physical body
Green-ray body = astral body
Blue-ray body = devachanic or mental body
Violet-ray body = buddhic body*

But, I have no idea if there is some correspondence in esoteric teachings to red and orange-ray bodies. Someone have any idea?

When describing a particular body, be it gross or subtle (or somewhere inbetween), you actually need 2 pieces of information in order to determine which body is being referred to: the density and subdensity). This can be confusing to really SEE.

For example, the red ray sub density of every density, is the physical body of that density (the physical construct capable of carrying that type of identification, or consciousness, in the physical realm). But only, and ONLY *if* you are referring to the 1st density: sub red ray body is it the "unconstructed elemental physical body without form" in my opinion.

For example, the 3rd density sub red ray body is in the "true color yellow" ray spectrum (its sub-densities), and thus, even though being yellow, might be referred to, by someone like me, as a "red ray" body, but it is *not* an unconstructed physical elemental body, rather, it is a physical construct that has the necessary circuitry capable of carrying 3rd density consciousness within the physical realm (a hominid brain for example). The thing of it is, you have both of those red ray bodies I just described. Thus, you have to very very specific in order to determine which body is being actually referred to. So you could think of it as having 49 bodies (7x7).

On the other hand, the 3rd density sub yellow ray body (density 3: subdensity 3) is the self aware part of you (Ra might call it the "shell of yellow ray" when referring to it in nonphysical), whose vibrational nature is synonymous with the middle astral (the realm of self aware beings). Thus it is the middle astral body when referred in that context. And also the place that type of consciousness would naturally "float" to when un-anchored from its physical shell. Remember how Hitler was healing on the "middle astral planes"? Well why middle? Well, that was because he was 3rd density, and because he failed to follow purely the negative path and graduate, when he died, he ended up on the middle astral. Because that is where he was vibrating, spiritually.

The bodies Ra described, in my opinion, were essentially the basic red ray sub density bodies of densities 1--7, even though they referred to them as the various colors. Technically, they ARE those various colors, but the physical manifestations of those colors (the red ray subdensity of each sequential density). Each sequential sub density red ray body is filled with more and more light (as are all the others). Both love/light and light/love.

So again, while technically accurate, it was NOT specific. Or very clear (though way more clear than most other channeling). As Ra said, it is a complex subject. The sub-red ray body of 2nd density is the physical body, before the mind and spirit complex enters. Again, I don't fault Ra for calling that the orange ray body, because it is technically true, just not specific and clear. but they were aware of the immense difficulty of absorbing these concepts, and spoke very slowly, and had limited time to speak. It makes perfect sense that they would start where they did.

(04-26-2018, 02:57 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Ka was the word used to refer the soul. Causal body is the body of human soul. Someone think like this?

It would make complete sense, because the causal body, which is the form maker body, or indigo body, is the very seat of the "spirit complex". It is the logos in microcosm. The sense of self as a portion of creator. A being of infinite worth.

(04-26-2018, 02:57 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Is the Buddha someone who activated the Violet-ray body?

In my opinion yes. Being able to seat one's consciousness in the Buddhic body, while physically incarnate, is equivalent to a perfect configuration of mind/body/spirit where all is seen as one.

As for the "etheric body" of traditional occult literature, Ra is instead using the word to describe the causal body (or what I would call the causal body, but now, because of you I want to call it the "kausal body" lol).

The etheric body of traditional literature is a real body as well. Suffice it to say, whether incarnate in red ray physical, or not, you have 7 bodies still. A vitality sheath. This is that body. The physical body "in potentiation". The physical body you have, regardless of whether you are physical or not. The part that plugs into the more outer one you are living in right now.  

The orange ray subdensity body of every density is the lower astral body. And green ray is the higher astral body (again, unless you are referring to: 4th density: sub-red ray body which is the physical body of 4th density -- a body capable of carrying 4th density consciousness in the physical plane.

These are simply my opinions from deeply looking into this over the years. Please take what resonates with you and discard the rest.

Thanks for your reply anagogy. Where did you get this conclusion from (49 bodies)?

(04-28-2018, 06:30 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The etheric body of traditional literature is a real body as well. Suffice it to say, whether incarnate in red ray physical, or not, you have 7 bodies still. A vitality sheath. This is that body. The physical body "in potentiation". The physical body you have, regardless of whether you are physical or not. The part that plugs into the more outer one you are living in right now.

Yes. It's a part of the physical body, in potentiation as you said.

(04-28-2018, 06:30 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The orange ray subdensity body of every density is the lower astral body. And green ray is the higher astral body (again, unless you are referring to: 4th density: sub-red ray body which is the physical body of 4th density -- a body capable of carrying 4th density consciousness in the physical plane.

I think understand. The red ray is the body of the "matter", foundation. But in fourth density the "main" body is the astral. Is there yet a subtle astral body at this point?

(04-28-2018, 06:30 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]These are simply my opinions from deeply looking into this over the years. Please take what resonates with you and discard the rest.

I like it. Thanks my brother.

(04-29-2018, 11:06 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for your reply anagogy. Where did you get this conclusion from (49 bodies)?

Just to be clear, I am not saying all 49 bodies are 'active'. Many are in 'potentiation'. For example, we don't have activated higher density bodies of course. Except to some small extent of (density 4 subdensity 1) in dual activated beings. Just as you have organs within organs and yet more structures within those structures down to the substratum of DNA, you have bodies within bodies. Subplanes within subplanes within subplanes.

I got the idea from deeply meditating on what Ra said. After enough meditation, the light was strong enough I could see between the cracks in Ra's words, and the picture was somewhat more illuminated. It may evolve in time. Enough sincere meditation on anything will reveal the hidden characteristics. You walk the same path a hundred times, you will notice far more details than the one that walks it a few times.

The self is always forming a reality around itself, because an ego, or identity, is the first primal division. If you presume a particular 'inner', it necessarily, and reflexively produces an 'outer', and the self straddles the divide between the two realms which are ultimately inversionary reflections of one another. The inner becomes the spirit and the outer becomes the body and mind becomes that self, that identified with the separation, that straddles the divide between those potentiated forces.

(04-29-2018, 11:06 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]I think understand. The red ray is the body of the "matter", foundation. But in fourth density the "main" body is the astral. Is there yet a subtle astral body at this point?

Ra said that some groups 'called' it the astral body, some others 'called' it the etheric body. But if you read the section of the Ra material where they ask what the 'physical' version of the 4th density body is like, the description is VERY similar to what they described there ('a lighter body packed more densely with life'). Also, they said it was that body that was visible during a seance when 'ectoplasm' (a finer matter) is produced. Past occultists probably didn't have a good name for that body beyond calling it the astral body. When I read old occult literature I often see more confusion that clarity.

Another clue is when they spoke of the devachanic bodies and said: "There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own."

This indicates to me they are referring to physical bodies again. For the inner spiritual bodies are far more malleable than the outer ones. It is like the wave and the particle. The tangible bodies, by their very nature, must becomes more 'collapsed' and 'specific'. The variety is thus, less malleable, and more general. 'Wave-like'.

anagogy wrote:
//The bodies Ra described, in my opinion, were essentially the basic red ray sub density bodies of densities 1--7, even though they referred to them as the various colors.//
//...but they were aware of the immense difficulty of absorbing these concepts, and spoke very slowly, and had limited time to speak. It makes perfect sense that they would start where they did.//

I am of the opinion that in 47.8 Ra was talking about the seven subtle bodies in the 3rd density because the question was "can you tell me ...blah blah blah... in our mind/body/spirit complex?" The topic of "the subtle bodies of 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th density mind/body/spirit complex" IMHO would be too grand and have less relevance to us lowly chemical distilleries since the topic of "subtle bodies of the 3rd density mind/body/spirit complex" would already take several sessions.

anagogy wrote:
//again, unless you are referring to: 4th density: sub-red ray body which is the physical body of 4th density -- a body capable of carrying 4th density consciousness in the physical plane.//

My intuition tells me that a 4th density fella in its steady state would inhabit a 4th density, 4th sub-density body, since we are 3-3. By that logic, it goes 5: 5-5, 6: 6-6, 7: 7-7. So a dual-activated fella would have 3-3/4-4. But these are my wild guesses. I really like all the other things you said. Also, what do you think they were referring to in the following:

//The forgetting process can be penetrated to the extent of the Wanderer remembering what it is and why it is upon the planetary sphere. However, it would be an infringement if Wanderers penetrated the forgetting so far as to activate the more dense bodies and thus be able to live, shall we say, in a god-like manner. This would not be proper for those who have chosen to serve.//65.19

(04-29-2018, 07:04 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I got the idea from deeply meditating on what Ra said. After enough meditation, the light was strong enough I could see between the cracks in Ra's words, and the picture was somewhat more illuminated. It may evolve in time. Enough sincere meditation on anything will reveal the hidden characteristics. You walk the same path a hundred times, you will notice far more details than the one that walks it a few times.

I understood. Thanks a lot.

(04-29-2018, 07:04 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said that some groups 'called' it the astral body, some others 'called' it the etheric body. But if you read the section of the Ra material where they ask what the 'physical' version of the 4th density body is like, the description is VERY similar to what they described there ('a lighter body packed more densely with life'). Also, they said it was that body that was visible during a seance when 'ectoplasm' (a finer matter) is produced. Past occultists probably didn't have a good name for that body beyond calling it the astral body. When I read old occult literature I often see more confusion that clarity.

Well, I suppose (and this is my humble opinion) that is an astral body because these stretches:

Quote:C: Thank you. I would like to ask another question concerning fourth density that we’re all moving into. I would like to know more about body functions in the fourth density. Could you comment on that?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my brother. The body which shall be inhabited by those of the fourth-density positive remaining upon this sphere is a body which is much more densely filled with light and the force of life which we have spoken of as the prana or love/light of the one infinite Creator. Many among your planet, in studying those things of mystery and of an occult nature, describe this body as the astral body. It is the green-ray energy center equivalent to the body you now inhabit as the yellow-ray energy center body. It is a body which responds much more fluidly and instantaneously to the will and faith developed in the indigo-ray energy center so that those actions or artifacts which are desired are much more easily constructed through the indigo-ray energy center’s contact with intelligent energy. This allows for the further development of the, what might be called, discipline of the personality which allows an entity much greater freedom in travel, in contacting telepathically all those about it, whose thoughts are seen to be quite transparent, and to do all things which serve as catalyst and as means for processing catalyst. The body is therefore much more malleable and subject to that which has created it, that is, the mind of the mind/body/spirit complex.

Quote:This is the movement of consciousness into that density of love and understanding which it is our honor and our privilege to inhabit. Within this [fourth] density of creation, the form of the body that has been chosen in the second-density experience of plants, of animal, to be invested, then is again used, as it was in the third density, but is used in what you might see of a somewhat different form, that is, what your peoples frequently call the astral body, that body which is lighter in your material gravity, shall we say, but is more densely packed with light. This body, then, is far more responsive to thought, and may move far more freely in time and in space than your bodies move.

On Gnosis and many other esoteric schools, it's teach the Adept must build (through the kundalini rising) an astral body called "solar astral body". Channeling from this year:

Quote:Z: I have a query. When a person has a Kundalini rising experience, is that the activation of their fourth-density energy body?

Q’uo: I am Q'uo, and am aware of your query, my brother. The rising of the Kundalini to the indigo ray energy center is that which you may indeed describe as the activation of the fourth-density body, that of the green ray energy center, which is then fully energized to be able to experience the higher vibrations now engulfing your planet so that these vibrations may be shared, or channeled, and transmitted to those about the entity experiencing the so-called Kundalini experience. For though an experience which seems solitary in nature, and, indeed, is experienced in this manner, it is one which offers the opportunities for the expansion of consciousness for others with whom the entity experiencing it shall come in contact.

Looks like the "main" body in fourth density is an astral body and consequently the fourth density environment is astral.

Thanks a lot my brother.

(04-28-2018, 06:30 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]On the other hand, the 3rd density sub yellow ray body (density 3: subdensity 3) is the self aware part of you (Ra might call it the "shell of yellow ray" when referring to it in nonphysical), whose vibrational nature is synonymous with the middle astral (the realm of self aware beings). Thus it is the middle astral body when referred in that context. And also the place that type of consciousness would naturally "float" to when un-anchored from its physical shell. Remember how Hitler was healing on the "middle astral planes"? Well why middle? Well, that was because he was 3rd density, and because he failed to follow purely the negative path and graduate, when he died, he ended up on the middle astral. Because that is where he was vibrating, spiritually.

I wanted to clarify something here. I made an error. Well not an error, but less than clear.

The entire spectrum of 3rd density (all it's sub-densities, from red to violet, necessarily involve self-awareness). Not just (density 3: subdensity 3). That yellow ray subdensity is just where that type of consciousness would naturally reside in the afterlife (middle astral). Where its particular density of "oil" would float to when separated from its physical shell.

(04-29-2018, 11:41 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like the "main" body in fourth density is an astral body and consequently the fourth density environment is astral.

And see, I can't really accept that is the case, because the orion ships that enter our vibration and occasionally get shot down by various governments are very solid objects, with very solid bodies.

I believe that fourth density is a lot more physical than we are giving it credit for. Especially when i read abduction reports (a really intriguing look into the Orion behavior is David Jacobs book 'The Threat'). These beings have a very physical based agenda, and have physical bodies, with physical limitations (though less than we experience).

I've never been a huge fan of 'conscious' channeling. I think it is often very distorted in nature. It's good for green ray material but not very good for blue and indigo type information.

But I just don't believe 4th density physical is as fluid, and topsy turvy, as the astral plane is. I think it is very physical, but can easily move out of phase of our perceptual abilities. Just a personal opinion.

Quote:63.25 Questioner: Then at some time in the future the fourth-density sphere will be fully activated. What is the difference between full activation and partial activation for this sphere?

Ra: I am Ra. At this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true-color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. However, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. At full activation of the true-color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. At this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

(05-06-2018, 10:40 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]And see, I can't really accept that is the case, because the orion ships that enter our vibration and occasionally get shot down by various governments are very solid objects, with very solid bodies.

Probably these ships are thought-forms materialized. About bodies, must be 3D STS or some type of organic robot. Grays and all these STS ET's don't use their real bodies to come to Earth.

And Ra said that fourth density beings are invisible to 3D entitities:

Quote:12.17 Questioner: Does an individual in the fourth density normally appear— or are they normally invisible to us?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of the word “normal” is one which befuddles the meaning of the question. Let us rephrase for clarity. The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.

(05-06-2018, 10:40 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I believe that fourth density is a lot more physical than we are giving it credit for. Especially when i read abduction reports (a really intriguing look into the Orion behavior is David Jacobs book 'The Threat'). These beings have a very physical based agenda, and have physical bodies, with physical limitations (though less than we experience).

I believe the case of greys is special. They use "probes" to come to Earth. It's like an organic robot. I have a friend who did worked in a group of with astral desobession and they dealt frequently with STS ET's. These extraterrestrial are all from astral plane level. I know this book. It's possible put a 3D body in fourth density. And the great majority of abductions occur in astral plane.

(05-06-2018, 10:40 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]But I just don't believe 4th density physical is as fluid, and topsy turvy, as the astral plane is. I think it is very physical, but can easily move out of phase of our perceptual abilities. Just a personal opinion.

Well, I respect your opinion. More one part from Laitos:

Quote:However, in the fourth density there is no need for government as you know it, for the rule is freedom in love, which means that no one obstructs the freedom of another, nor would wish to harm another, and since that which is needed can be created by thought, there is no need for the labor on a cooperative basis of your society.

This is a description of an astral environment.

About your Ra's quote, I believe the word "solid" is not about 3D physical material. Ra said 4D body are not chemical, so the environment is quite different.

Thanks my brother.

(05-06-2018, 11:30 PM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]This is a description of an astral environment.

About your Ra's quote, I believe the word "solid" is not about 3D physical material. Ra said 4D body are not chemical, so the environment is quite different.

Thanks my brother.

What are your thoughts on these quotes then?

Quote:90.5 Questioner: You stated previously that fifth-density entities bear a resemblance to those of us in third density on planet Earth but fourth density does not. Could you describe the fourth-density entities and tell me why they do not resemble us?

Ra: I am Ra. The description must be bated under the Law of Confusion. The cause for a variety of so-called physical vehicles is the remaining variety of heritages from second-density physical vehicular forms. The process of what you call physical evolution continues to hold sway into fourth density. Only when the ways of wisdom have begun to refine the power of what you may loosely call thought is the form of the physical complex manifestation more nearly under the direction of the consciousness.

Quote:43.16 Questioner: We know that the physical vehicle in fourth density that is used during space/time, I am assuming, is quite similar to the one that we now use in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The chemical elements used are not the same. However, the appearance is similar.

This would imply to me they *are* chemical bodies, but they use different elements than our bodies.

Just offering these quotes for your consideration. I respect your opinion as well, my brother.

The use of the term astral here has always been problematic for me.

Every one has an 'astral body' in the sense of astral projection, but not everyone has a green ray activated body, in the sense of a 4d physical vehicle.

So for clarity, I would reserve the term astral for a time/space energetic framework, much like anagogy refers to sub planes (in 3d, or elsewhere).

Just to clarify. I believe space/time of fourth density is an astral environment. But without the mechanics of time/space. It's like a more "limited" astral plane.

(05-07-2018, 04:55 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]Every one has an 'astral body' in the sense of astral projection, but not everyone has a green ray activated body, in the sense of a 4d physical vehicle.

There are two kind of astral body: astral body lunar and astral body solar (the body of fourth density):


All incarnated have the lunar astral body, the astral body of third density entity.

(05-07-2018, 04:55 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]So for clarity, I would reserve the term astral for a time/space energetic framework, much like anagogy refers to sub planes (in 3d, or elsewhere).

I thought so as well. But there are intrinsic relationships between the green-ray and astral levels. We would have to ignore all channelings from L/L Research when is spoke fourth density is an astral body. They says this more than one time.

(05-07-2018, 08:49 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Just to clarify. I believe space/time of fourth density is an astral environment. But without the mechanics of time/space. It's like a more "limited" astral plane.

just for what my opinion is worth - I think the closest analogue of a 4d physical space/time experience is the show Boku Hero no Academia.  (otherwise known as 'My Hero Academia').

It's an anime, in the superhero genre.  And I think why the superhero genre has exploded in recent years (all the Marvel movies), is that it's foreshadowing the 4d physical form, and how 'close' it is.  

It's an evolved version of the 3d body (much like the 3d body is evolved from 2d forms), and invested with 'powers' and 'abilities' that tap into a physical experience (and shaping) of intelligent energy.

And those abilities cover the spectrum: from physical strength, to flying, action at a distance, and mental abilities.

It goes beyond 'magic' in having to be invoked, and actually becomes part of the baseline for experience.

But it still feels very 'relatable' and human.  It's not so far distant as a 5d body, which can be shaped at will, and is like light putty.

Superheroes are still 'physical', and can be injured, hurt, and damaged.

(05-07-2018, 08:49 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]There are two kind of astral body: astral body lunar and astral body solar (the body of fourth density):

All incarnated have the lunar astral body, the astral body of third density entity.

I've not heard those terms before, so thanks for bringing them up.

again - the word astral is doing a lot of 'hard work', by being used in such different contexts.

Much like in physical anatomy of the body; and when one studies it in medical school, the accuracy of the terms permit a greater focus and delineation (and thereby) understanding of the components.

Accurate and precise terminology is really helpful here.

(05-07-2018, 08:49 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]I thought so as well. But there are intrinsic relationships between the green-ray and astral levels. We would have to ignore all channelings from L/L Research when is spoke fourth density is an astral body. They says this more than one time.

That's an interesting premise.

I can't say that I understand (or appreciate) those inner relationships.

I think the term 'body' is also quite ripe for confusion.

If one goes into the work of Barbara Brennan, she talks about different 'fields of energy' associated with each energy center.  So there is a red-ray field associated with the root chakra, and orange ray field with the second chakra etc.

These fields overlap the physical body, and inform and regulate activity in the physical body.  

One can also see these as being 'energy bodies'.

But in my mind, they are more 7 energetic fields which comprise the physical vehicle of the 3d 'body'.

When people talk about astral projection and the astral 'body'; it is just the shifting of awareness/consciousness into the green-ray 'field'.  It's the 4th subdensity of 3d time/space.

In many ways, it's like a 'body'; but it's not the foundational body - which is the physical vehicle that we've chosen to become anchored in for a lifetime.

(05-07-2018, 10:45 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-07-2018, 08:49 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]Just to clarify. I believe space/time of fourth density is an astral environment. But without the mechanics of time/space. It's like a more "limited" astral plane.

just for what my opinion is worth - I think the closest analogue of a 4d physical space/time experience is the show Boku Hero no Academia.  (otherwise known as 'My Hero Academia').

It's an anime, in the superhero genre.  And I think why the superhero genre has exploded in recent years (all the Marvel movies), is that it's foreshadowing the 4d physical form, and how 'close' it is.  

It's an evolved version of the 3d body (much like the 3d body is evolved from 2d forms), and invested with 'powers' and 'abilities' that tap into a physical experience (and shaping) of intelligent energy.

And those abilities cover the spectrum: from physical strength, to flying, action at a distance, and mental abilities.

It goes beyond 'magic' in having to be invoked, and actually becomes part of the baseline for experience.

But it still feels very 'relatable' and human.  It's not so far distant as a 5d body, which can be shaped at will, and is like light putty.

Superheroes are still 'physical', and can be injured, hurt, and damaged.

I don't know if you have read any manga, saw an anime or read a web novel that takes upon the Wuxia chinese fantasy genre that often includes immortal cultivation, it is interesting how this genre divides the steps or levels of cultivation and you see many terms transposed across stories.

I had tried to map them with the concept of densities and if I take the hierarchy in Desolate Era, the 3D level would be the Houtian level, 4D basic one would be the Xiantian lifeform level (some creatures are born of the Heavens at this stage) and many stages later you arrive at the 5D level which would be Celestial Immortal.
http://desolate-era.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Hierarchy

The genre is focused upon overcoming the mortal fate, defying the will of the Heavens into ascension from 3D. There's the concept of body refiners and ki refiners. In the initial stages of development of the MC, I mapped things he reached that perfectly described powerful spiritual experiences I had, the author has a strong insight.

Quote:However, we shall begin by referring your minds back to the spectrum of true colors and the usage of this understanding in grasping the various densities of your octave.

We have the number seven repeated from the macrocosm to the microcosm in structure and experience. Therefore, it would only be expected that there would be seven basic bodies which we would perhaps be most lucid by stating as red-ray body, etc.

I think Ra is just describing the basic body of each density, or something like that. Traditional texts on the seven bodies might just be describing the energy bodies of third density.

So, this is why Ra's description of the bodies corresponds to the 7 densities, whereas other sources corresponds the bodies with the various planes in third density (eg the etheric plane, astral/emotional plane, causal plane).

The bodies described by Ra are like micro versions of the densities - the micro representing the macro.

Quote:As we have noted, each of the true-color densities has the seven energy centers and each entity contains all this in potentiation...There are adepts who have penetrated many, many of the energy centers and several of the true colors.

Quote:However, we are aware that you wish to correspond these bodies mentioned with the color rays. This will be confusing, for various teachers have offered their teach/learning understanding in various terms. Thus one may name a subtle body one thing and another find a different name.

Quote:the body, as you call it, being the material of the density which you experience at a given space/time or time/space; this complex of materials being available for distortions of what you would call physical manifestation.

The material of the body can activated (manifested) in any of the 7 color spectrum (energy density range) - i.e. orange, yellow, or green. So I think the ray bodies described by Ra are more fundamental than the energy bodies listed in other sources.