Bring4th

I tried to search for a similar thread, where people are switching diets but couldn't find one. So here it comes.

It all started with my daughter telling me: "Did you know that calves are taken from their mothers directly after the birth?". "Well, not in Sweden, they aren't?". Yes, in Sweden too, she answered. It is forbidden by law here to take away babies from their mothers when it comes to pets. So why doesn't that apply to cows and calves? I pondered this for couple of days, but couldn't believe it. So, I started to do research.

The thing is, in Sweden we are told that we have the best care for animals kept for our food, like cows, chickens, lambs etc. We are shown pictures of green meadows, blue skies, sunny days and happy cows, walking around in these meadows and eating grass. Indeed, we do have probably some of the best conditions in the world for these animals. But not good enough for me.

What my research showed is that indeed the calves are taken from their mothers either right after the birth or one to three days later. This brings a lot of stress to both cows and calves, as their natural separation from each other occurs after six months as earliest. And though research shows that both cows and calves feel much better and produce more if they are together, by some reason no one seems to care about that.

Besides that, the cows used in diary industry are of that sort which produces as much milk as possible. In earlier days a cow produced around 10 liters of milk per day, but now cows produce 50 liters of milk, which is not without problems of course. So much milk means that cows often suffer from mastitis. It also means that cows are not doing ok due to this intensity and only after five years they are sent for slaughter. Therefore, there is not much difference between diary and meat industry, because about 50% of all meat in Sweden comes from "old" (five years old) milk cows. But what is a natural age for a cow? 20 years?

During my research I did find one diary farm which uses "normal" cows so to speak as they used before. These cows are slowly growing, produce those normal 10 liters milk per day and the farm do more than just organic production. Well, awesome, I thought. But what about calves? And in the name of honesty they did write on their webpage that calves are taken from the cows too, but at the age of 3 months. Still not good enough for me though. A calf does not need 10 liters milk per day, which means that a calf can be with his mother until a natural separation occurs between them. But it still is better than a normal cow farm, or isn't it? The thing is that another research showed that cows don't seem to experience much stress if the calf is taken away from them immediately after the birth, compared to cows who started to interact with their calf after the birth. In fact, the cows from whom the calf was taken right after the birth didn't even recognize it later, while cows who interacted with their offspring recognized it among many other calves when united later. So, that might mean that taking the calf after couple of days or months after its birth isn't much better for them at all or even worse. But who knows?

I have been vegetarian for couple of years when I was younger. This was due to concern for the animals. But when I got pregnant I was craving so much for the meat that I had to start eating it again. After my daughter was born I tried to become vegetarian again, but didn't succeed because I was hungry all the time, and ate all the time. But now... I don't see any other choice than to change my diet because of all that I found out recently.

I have never seen myself becoming vegan. It just seems so extreme and drastic to me. I have thought though to perhaps try vegetarian diet one more time soon. But as I said, I feel that I don't have any choice anymore than slowly changing my diet to vegan, one step at a time. I have no idea if I will succeed, but I have to try!

My daugther is so wise. When I shared my thoughts with her about what I am thinking to do, she told me that the best way to change a diet is to change one product at a time. Isn't that smart?! She is also interested to try vegan food with me. But since she is only eleven years, I would prefer if she was on some sort of dairy and meat, doesn't have to be much, until she reaches fully grown age of 21-25 years.

So, what we are in the process of doing here for now is to switching one product at time from meat and diary to plant based. First choice was butter. There are plenty of plant-based butters out there, and so we are switching our milk-based butter with green meadow and happy (my *ss!) cow on the package to the one which is vegan. We are also trying all kind of different plant-based "milk" products in order to stop drinking cow milk. Today we tried almond "milk", and may I say – yikes!! As soon as we drink that up, we will try oat "milk". But there are also rice "milk", coconut "milk" and soya "milk". But I need to research about soya. I've heard that soya production, like palm oil production, means a lot of rainforest devastation, and we would never want to contribute to that! So I have to check this up.

I have also now stopped buying meat and fish products. I do have some in the freezer, which I am in the process of eating up. As soon as they are gone, I need to start cooking vegan dishes. I don't eat that much meat anyway, so I don't think that I will suffer THAT much. But there ARE some foodstuffs that I am going to miss:

1. CHEESE

2. Eggs

3. Salami

4. BBQ meat or sausages in the summer

5. Mayonnaise

6. Tuna and haddock

7. Seafood

8. Hamburgers etc.

But one thing that I am going to miss most of all is cheese. I LOVE cheese. I love cheese from Greece, Italy, France, Spain, US and all kind of countries! So, I guess, that this will be the last product that I am going to switch following my daughter's one product at a time program.

I also know that I will cheat in the beginning, when there are special circumstances, like traveling or visiting friends and family for dinner etc. But not when I am home. This home will now slowly become vegan. And I hope that if it all goes well, in the future when one is used to vegan diet, one does not want to cheat even on special occasions. I also will not tell anything about this to my friends and family in the beginning due to many reasons.

So we'll see how it all goes from now on.

Your daugther sounds so wise, especially to her age. Amazing!
Also thank you for sharing all that info that you have found.
I never ever saw myself being able to eat vegan only, it just didn't seem plausible.. I'm already underweight and people yell at me to eat more. I tried going vegeterian once and after like 6 months I found myself sitting in a restaurant eating a sausage burger. (I was shocked beyond, like how did I get here? Lol.). After that I just gave up and ate meat.
Then after being exposed to some material by forum members I decided that I'm going to just do it all or nothing and went vegan since.
The thing is, those things are tasty. But once I ate, no matter what, the desire isn't there anymore.. So eating tasty is nice, but it's nice only when you're craving / hungry.

 
Well done ! Although myself I try to remain flexible when I am eating out.  Especially with dairy products.
 

Awesome, Ankh, best wishes !!!

I am a vegetarian but still cook occasionally for my hubby some meat giving tons of gratitude to whatever animal I will serve him. I love cooking vegetarian and not really at all any fish or any other animal. I think that if we had all earthlings visiting slaughterhouses, BAM, everyone would be vegetarian this minute. Although you gotta say thank you to the carrots too... all in all, you gotta say thank you a ton !! Have a good adventure Ankh !!!!

(06-09-2018, 03:05 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]I tried to search for a similar thread, where people are switching diets but couldn't find one. So here it comes.

It all started with my daughter telling me: "Did you know that calves are taken from their mothers directly after the birth?". "Well, not in Sweden, they aren't?". Yes, in Sweden too, she answered. It is forbidden by law here to take away babies from their mothers when it comes to pets. So why doesn't that apply to cows and calves? I pondered this for couple of days, but couldn't believe it. So, I started to do research.

The thing is, in Sweden we are told that we have the best care for animals kept for our food, like cows, chickens, lambs etc. We are shown pictures of green meadows, blue skies, sunny days and happy cows, walking around in these meadows and eating grass. Indeed, we do have probably some of the best conditions in the world for these animals. But not good enough for me.

What my research showed is that indeed the calves are taken from their mothers either right after the birth or one to three days later. This brings a lot of stress to both cows and calves, as their natural separation from each other occurs after six months as earliest. And though research shows that both cows and calves feel much better and produce more if they are together, by some reason no one seems to care about that.

Besides that, the cows used in diary industry are of that sort which produces as much milk as possible. In earlier days a cow produced around 10 liters of milk per day, but now cows produce 50 liters of milk, which is not without problems of course. So much milk means that cows often suffer from mastitis. It also means that cows are not doing ok due to this intensity and only after five years they are sent for slaughter. Therefore, there is not much difference between diary and meat industry, because about 50% of all meat in Sweden comes from "old" (five years old) milk cows. But what is a natural age for a cow? 20 years?

During my research I did find one diary farm which uses "normal" cows so to speak as they used before. These cows are slowly growing, produce those normal 10 liters milk per day and the farm do more than just organic production. Well, awesome, I thought. But what about calves? And in the name of honesty they did write on their webpage that calves are taken from the cows too, but at the age of 3 months. Still not good enough for me though. A calf does not need 10 liters milk per day, which means that a calf can be with his mother until a natural separation occurs between them. But it still is better than a normal cow farm, or isn't it? The thing is that another research showed that cows don't seem to experience much stress if the calf is taken away from them immediately after the birth, compared to cows who started to interact with their calf after the birth. In fact, the cows from whom the calf was taken right after the birth didn't even recognize it later, while cows who interacted with their offspring recognized it among many other calves when united later. So, that might mean that taking the calf after couple of days or months after its birth isn't much better for them at all or even worse. But who knows?

I have been vegetarian for couple of years when I was younger. This was due to concern for the animals. But when I got pregnant I was craving so much for the meat that I had to start eating it again. After my daughter was born I tried to become vegetarian again, but didn't succeed because I was hungry all the time, and ate all the time. But now... I don't see any other choice than to change my diet because of all that I found out recently.

I have never seen myself becoming vegan. It just seems so extreme and drastic to me. I have thought though to perhaps try vegetarian diet one more time soon. But as I said, I feel that I don't have any choice anymore than slowly changing my diet to vegan, one step at a time. I have no idea if I will succeed, but I have to try!

My daugther is so wise. When I shared my thoughts with her about what I am thinking to do, she told me that the best way to change a diet is to change one product at a time. Isn't that smart?! She is also interested to try vegan food with me. But since she is only eleven years, I would prefer if she was on some sort of dairy and meat, doesn't have to be much, until she reaches fully grown age of 21-25 years.

So, what we are in the process of doing here for now is to switching one product at time from meat and diary to plant based. First choice was butter. There are plenty of plant-based butters out there, and so we are switching our milk-based butter with green meadow and happy (my *ss!) cow on the package to the one which is vegan. We are also trying all kind of different plant-based "milk" products in order to stop drinking cow milk. Today we tried almond "milk", and may I say – yikes!! As soon as we drink that up, we will try oat "milk". But there are also rice "milk", coconut "milk" and soya "milk". But I need to research about soya. I've heard that soya production, like palm oil production, means a lot of rainforest devastation, and we would never want to contribute to that! So I have to check this up.

I have also now stopped buying meat and fish products. I do have some in the freezer, which I am in the process of eating up. As soon as they are gone, I need to start cooking vegan dishes. I don't eat that much meat anyway, so I don't think that I will suffer THAT much. But there ARE some foodstuffs that I am going to miss:

1. CHEESE

2. Eggs

3. Salami

4. BBQ meat or sausages in the summer

5. Mayonnaise

6. Tuna and haddock

7. Seafood

8. Hamburgers etc.

But one thing that I am going to miss most of all is cheese. I LOVE cheese. I love cheese from Greece, Italy, France, Spain, US and all kind of countries! So, I guess, that this will be the last product that I am going to switch following my daughter's one product at a time program.

I also know that I will cheat in the beginning, when there are special circumstances, like traveling or visiting friends and family for dinner etc. But not when I am home. This home will now slowly become vegan. And I hope that if it all goes well, in the future when one is used to vegan diet, one does not want to cheat even on special occasions. I also will not tell anything about this to my friends and family in the beginning due to many reasons.

So we'll see how it all goes from now on.

Thank you for sharing in such an open way. Amazing your daughter to have that conversation with you, and that she is caring about those issues at such a young age.  This is when you can say well she is my daughter of course    I like also the process you talk about, using your discrimination and researching it yourself something we are so lucky today to have, yes internet im looking at you!   Haha yeah be funny the conversation with family when brought up, good to hold off until time is right  
Good luck with new venture with your daughter, it can be looked at as a tough thing to do but on the other side its a new exiting world of different foods to experiment with and so forth, new chapter in a book so to speak.

I think eggs are rather safe. If need be and if you have the means, you can even keep your own chickens.

Eggs are a very important protein source, along with various important other substances.

(06-09-2018, 03:05 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]1. CHEESE

I don't know the options you have in your country, but vegan cheeses are decent these days - and I say this a former lover of diary cheese. Specifically, Daiya Mozzarella is good when melted (changes flavor a bit), so great for pizza - tapioca based. Miyoko's cheese are all around great, though a bit softer in terms of texture and closer to cheese spreads / cream cheese - they are cashew based.

Quote:2. Eggs

I haven't found a solid replacement, but for the seasoned scrambled eggs, seasoned scrambled tofu is surprisingly close in overall taste. Though I never was a huge fan of eggs so maybe I haven't looked a lot

Quote:3. Salami

4. BBQ meat or sausages in the summer

....

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]8. Hamburgers etc.
[/font]

There have been a lot of recent breakthroughs in this area. I would suggest looking into Beyond Meat's Patties and Sausages (based on pea protein), which have been outselling meat in California grocery stores when sold in the meat section. I've personally tried them and they are very very good. Beyond Meat has a lot of different options and I haven't tried them all, but I've tried vegan salami of some companies and they are pretty good.

Quote:5. Mayonnaise

Vegan mayonnaise has been a thing around here for a while. Even articles about some stores replacing normal mayonnaise with vegan mayonnaise cause it lasted longer before spoiling and tasted the same. I personally find Follow Your Heart Veganaise great. They also make great salad dressings, such as thousand island, etc.

Quote:6. Tuna and haddock

7. Seafood

I haven't looked for a seafood replacement, so can't help you there.

You haven't mentioned yogurt but Forager's Cashewmilk Yogurt is great, tastes like normal yogurt. Miyoko also makes really good vegan butter (cashew milk based), but most vegan butters are pretty decent.

---

Great to hear your journey. You are also reducing your footprint / resource consumption on the planet significantly by going vegan, because of the resources animals take to produce over plants. Health, Animal Compassion, Environmental Conservation, it all points to a vegan diet. Though vegetarian is pretty good on all those marks but not perfect. I think if the will is there, you may falter or take a few steps back, but eventually you'll get to where you want to be with respect to your diet.

Cheers 

Miss Ankh, this is so awesome!! It is a process and you are wise. When Kile and I first went vegan 6 years ago, we also told ourselves that it didn't mean "never again". We still had dairy when our cravings got REALLY bad. But your supposition is right. Eventually, dairy stopped tasting good at all - it began to taste really sour and rotten to me. Now, I just do not even consider dairy/eggs/meat to be a food source and I honestly want nothing to do with them.

(06-09-2018, 03:05 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]1. CHEESE

There are many, many, many good brands of vegan cheese out there, but of course, I have no idea what you have access to. I would try whatever you have. Be wary that some "non-dairy" products still contain casein, which is a milk byproduct. This is becoming less common though.

Quote:2. Eggs

I know you are a bit wary about tofu, but I would maybe offer the suggestion to use it as a transitional food. Tofu + kala namak (black salt) tastes so amazingly like eggs. The black salt has sulfur in it. It's almost impossible to recreate a whole egg, but scrambled eggs, fried eggs, even egg salad is really easy to replicate with a little black salt. Tofu scrambles are a pretty big staple for a lot of vegans. Most don't know the black salt trick!! It's amazing.

Aquafaba (the liquid from cooked beans) also acts like egg whites and will whip to frothy peaks just like egg whites do, mostly for baking. But you can make lots of amazing stuff with aquafaba actually.

Quote:3. Salami

This might be something that you can find as well. Vegan meat substitutes are hit or miss but honestly they get better every single week. You might have to give this one up for a minute but not forever.

Quote:4. BBQ meat or sausages in the summer

Are you talking about grilling? Or BBQ sauce? Either way, veggies do awesome on the grill, and there are some really insanely believable burger patties that they make now (Impossible Burger, Beyond Burger, etc). If you mean like pulled meats with BBQ sauce, I hope you can get canned jackfruit.

Quote:5. Mayonnaise

While googling about this, I saw a thread on reddit that said Sweden has one of the highest concentrations of vegans in Europe. The post said even most fast food places like McDonald's have vegan options?! Anyway, I'm definitely not recommending that, but I know for sure that Just Mayo is an amazing mayo substitute. The post I read said that McDonald's uses vegan mayo so I'm guessing there has to be some somewhere.

Quote:6. Tuna and haddock

Fish is hard, to be sure. There are recipes for really good chickpea tuna salad that uses nori (seaweed). I also had a vegan British couple at work the other day tell me they make "fish and chips" with a piece of tofu, and they wrap it in nori, and then batter and deep fry - and they love it. I still want to try that.

Quote:7. Seafood

This is probably the hardest on your list, I'll be honest, and was probably one of my favorite things. Google says Sweden gets Gardein products - I LOVE their crabcakes. A lot of people love their fish fillets too but I wasn't a huge fan when I tried the, though Kile was.

Quote:8. Hamburgers etc.

There are so many veggie burger patties, from ones that taste super healthy and like beans to ones that taste really darn close to what animals taste like. I have a hard time with the really realistic stuff these days, I've never tried the Impossible/Beyond burgers that I mentioned earlier actually. But people love them. Experiment! Try them all! You can also make your own!

Quote:But one thing that I am going to miss most of all is cheese. I LOVE cheese. I love cheese from Greece, Italy, France, Spain, US and all kind of countries! So, I guess, that this will be the last product that I am going to switch following my daughter's one product at a time program.

Seriously. Cheese is so hard. It is delicious, and also, it's seriously physically addictive. Dairy has casein (which I mentioned earlier), which converts into an opioid in the bloodstream. This is to ensure that a newborn baby mammal has the desire to nurse, before they have the desire to do anything. When a baby is "weaned", this process is difficult because you are breaking a low grade morphine addiction from the small entity. Humans, however, never actually ween off of dairy and casein. We are very odd. This becomes a problem when it evolves into what you have described - the horrible system we have created to farm milk. I honestly believe that dairy is much less ethical than eating meat - because these cows live in pure torture and misery for up to 5 years, being pushed to the absolute extremes that their bodies can handle until their bodies give up. Cows who are raised for meat rarely live longer than a year. Chickens raised for meat only last 6 weeks. The cruelty is still there, but the absolute torture that dairy cows go through is unrivaled. Since we have bred them to exploit their reproductive systems, for higher production of milk, this also increases their production of hormones - including oxytocin to bond with their child. Then this child is ripped away from them almost immediately. Cows audibly mourn for days for their babies, who are either killed very early (males) or sent to live the exact same life as their mothers (females), just out of reach for her, likely able to hear her plaintive cries.

Going vegan just gets easier and easier. The substitutes are there, the vegan options at restaurants are there. I think it is great to transition at whatever speed you can handle. The interesting thing I've learned about vegan food, and omnivores actually agree (since I work at a vegan restaurant), that vegan food often tastes better because you have to be more creative. When you can just throw a handful of cheese all over a plate, you can make it taste good whatever it is. Vegan food requires a -bit- more creativity, but also, offers a greater variety of things that will excite your palate.

Anyway, good luck!! If you have any other specific questions or anything you think I would be good at helping with, just let me know!! There are some good vegan recipe threads in the health & diet forum, I would check them out.

Thank you for all the tips and your support, everyone!

(06-09-2018, 08:26 PM)flofrog Wrote: [ -> ]I think that if we had all earthlings visiting slaughterhouses,  BAM, everyone would be vegetarian this minute. 

I've been thinking about this. The slaughter process itself is horrible, but it is the life that the animal is having before it that is sometimes so horrible that I don't know how people are able to work with it, day in and day out. As consumers, we are today so far away from the production of our food, that most people don't care about how that food ended up on the plate, and many times they are not even aware of it. Take me for instance, until this point I've had this notion that meat and diary industry is horrible in other countries like Denmark, Poland, Germany, UK, US etc., but that in Sweden we have humane and acceptable care for these animals, therefore I only bought Swedish meat and diary products. Indeed, we do have some of the world's best care for these animals, but they still *suffer*. So, I am just wondering, how can people who care for these animals, go to bed at night for instance, and sleep. They *know* what these animals go through. They hear their cry and see their wounds every day. Anyway, I think that if people would see this, they don't even have to visit a slaughterhouse, if they would care for these animals themselves and then kill them - BAM! I know that I wouldn't make it! I would go vegan right away! So, here is the problem in regards to our food on this beautiful and overcrowded planet. When someone else is making your food, far away from your sight and knowledge, it is difficult to consciously choose another meal, opposite to mainstream, a meal that is biologically sustainable, that is not harming animals and our planet. You have to do something in an active way. You have to do research. You have to wake up. You have to start caring. And then doing something about it. And who have the time or energy for this in our busy, fast and noisy society?

End rant.

(06-10-2018, 08:14 AM)Quan Wrote: [ -> ]Good luck with new venture with your daughter, it can be looked at as a tough thing to do but on the other side its a new exiting world of different foods to experiment with and so forth, new chapter in a book so to speak.

Yes, it is! I was in our supermarket last night and looked through the vegan alternatives. WOW! I am glad that there is a lot to choose! It feels like indeed a new and exciting world is opening!

The only thing that bothers me is that there is a lot of soya beans used in these products due to the high protein content in the soya bean. I researched soya production, and it showed that 80 % of this production goes directly to our animals used for meat and milk. So, there it is! Just another heavy reason for stopping eating dairy and meat products.

Soya production, especially in Brazil, is sometimes equalled to palm oil production. And though, eating soya products is not as bad as eating dairy and meat, it is still not something that I want to choose to do, unless it is certified and biologically sustainable soya and palm oil. For instance, last night when I was going through all those vegan products, I looked at one sour cream product used for cooking. It contained both palm oil and soya which was not certified. What were they thinking of there, when producing it? If they do make an effort to make a vegan sour cream for cooking, why choose products in it which still destroy our planet and make animals suffer (like orangutangs in palm oil industry)? But good thing is that many products do use certified palm oil and soya beans.

(06-10-2018, 11:36 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]I think eggs are rather safe.

It depends on how much space chickens are given. Many times when they write "free range chickens" it means that they have so little space to walk upon that they start picking each others due to stress. Also, because of so little space, it becomes very dirty there, which means that chickens develop wounds on their feet.

Quote:If need be and if you have the means, you can even keep your own chickens.

That's always been my dream! When my daughter grows up, maybe I can move from my apartment and go and live somewhere in the countryside. Then I will definitely get some chickens! And a rooster too!  

(06-10-2018, 01:10 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]You are also reducing your footprint / resource consumption on the planet significantly by going vegan, because of the resources animals take to produce over plants.

YES! That is one of my intentions with this diet change too! Especially after finding out about soya production last night! My daughter and I stopped buying products containing palm oil for some time ago now (she had to give up her favorite chocolate bar named "Hershey's" - dang! That was hard to see, cause she loves it so much), but we had no idea about soya production and how much of it is used as food for the animals kept for milk and meat! If only people knew...

Thank you for all the tips, xise! It is indeed a whole new world which is opening!

(06-11-2018, 11:22 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]When Kile and I first went vegan 6 years ago, we also told ourselves that it didn't mean "never again". We still had dairy when our cravings got REALLY bad. But your supposition is right. Eventually, dairy stopped tasting good at all - it began to taste really sour and rotten to me.

Thank you for telling me this. Yeah, that's what I think too, that when once one is used to vegan diet, meat and diary will stop taste good and you just wouldn't want them anymore.

Quote:Seriously. Cheese is so hard. It is delicious, and also, it's seriously physically addictive. Dairy has casein (which I mentioned earlier), which converts into an opioid in the bloodstream. This is to ensure that a newborn baby mammal has the desire to nurse, before they have the desire to do anything. When a baby is "weaned", this process is difficult because you are breaking a low grade morphine addiction from the small entity. Humans, however, never actually ween off of dairy and casein. We are very odd. This becomes a problem when it evolves into what you have described - the horrible system we have created to farm milk. I honestly believe that dairy is much less ethical than eating meat - because these cows live in pure torture and misery for up to 5 years, being pushed to the absolute extremes that their bodies can handle until their bodies give up. Cows who are raised for meat rarely live longer than a year. Chickens raised for meat only last 6 weeks. The cruelty is still there, but the absolute torture that dairy cows go through is unrivaled. Since we have bred them to exploit their reproductive systems, for higher production of milk, this also increases their production of hormones - including oxytocin to bond with their child. Then this child is ripped away from them almost immediately. Cows audibly mourn for days for their babies, who are either killed very early (males) or sent to live the exact same life as their mothers (females), just out of reach for her, likely able to hear her plaintive cries.

Ugh! I had no idea!

Quote:Going vegan just gets easier and easier. The substitutes are there, the vegan options at restaurants are there. I think it is great to transition at whatever speed you can handle. The interesting thing I've learned about vegan food, and omnivores actually agree (since I work at a vegan restaurant), that vegan food often tastes better because you have to be more creative. When you can just throw a handful of cheese all over a plate, you can make it taste good whatever it is. Vegan food requires a -bit- more creativity, but also, offers a greater variety of things that will excite your palate.

Anyway, good luck!! If you have any other specific questions or anything you think I would be good at helping with, just let me know!! There are some good vegan recipe threads in the health & diet forum, I would check them out.

Awesome! Good to know! And thank you, sweetie!

Can't wait to see you! Only 2,5 months left!

(06-09-2018, 03:05 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]I tried to search for a similar thread, where people are switching diets but couldn't find one. So here it comes.

It all started with my daughter telling me: "Did you know that calves are taken from their mothers directly after the birth?". "Well, not in Sweden, they aren't?". Yes, in Sweden too, she answered. It is forbidden by law here to take away babies from their mothers when it comes to pets. So why doesn't that apply to cows and calves? I pondered this for couple of days, but couldn't believe it. So, I started to do research.

The thing is, in Sweden we are told that we have the best care for animals kept for our food, like cows, chickens, lambs etc. We are shown pictures of green meadows, blue skies, sunny days and happy cows, walking around in these meadows and eating grass. Indeed, we do have probably some of the best conditions in the world for these animals. But not good enough for me.

What my research showed is that indeed the calves are taken from their mothers either right after the birth or one to three days later. This brings a lot of stress to both cows and calves, as their natural separation from each other occurs after six months as earliest. And though research shows that both cows and calves feel much better and produce more if they are together, by some reason no one seems to care about that.

Besides that, the cows used in diary industry are of that sort which produces as much milk as possible. In earlier days a cow produced around 10 liters of milk per day, but now cows produce 50 liters of milk, which is not without problems of course. So much milk means that cows often suffer from mastitis. It also means that cows are not doing ok due to this intensity and only after five years they are sent for slaughter. Therefore, there is not much difference between diary and meat industry, because about 50% of all meat in Sweden comes from "old" (five years old) milk cows. But what is a natural age for a cow? 20 years?

During my research I did find one diary farm which uses "normal" cows so to speak as they used before. These cows are slowly growing, produce those normal 10 liters milk per day and the farm do more than just organic production. Well, awesome, I thought. But what about calves? And in the name of honesty they did write on their webpage that calves are taken from the cows too, but at the age of 3 months. Still not good enough for me though. A calf does not need 10 liters milk per day, which means that a calf can be with his mother until a natural separation occurs between them. But it still is better than a normal cow farm, or isn't it? The thing is that another research showed that cows don't seem to experience much stress if the calf is taken away from them immediately after the birth, compared to cows who started to interact with their calf after the birth. In fact, the cows from whom the calf was taken right after the birth didn't even recognize it later, while cows who interacted with their offspring recognized it among many other calves when united later. So, that might mean that taking the calf after couple of days or months after its birth isn't much better for them at all or even worse. But who knows?

I have been vegetarian for couple of years when I was younger. This was due to concern for the animals. But when I got pregnant I was craving so much for the meat that I had to start eating it again. After my daughter was born I tried to become vegetarian again, but didn't succeed because I was hungry all the time, and ate all the time. But now... I don't see any other choice than to change my diet because of all that I found out recently.

I have never seen myself becoming vegan. It just seems so extreme and drastic to me. I have thought though to perhaps try vegetarian diet one more time soon. But as I said, I feel that I don't have any choice anymore than slowly changing my diet to vegan, one step at a time. I have no idea if I will succeed, but I have to try!

My daugther is so wise. When I shared my thoughts with her about what I am thinking to do, she told me that the best way to change a diet is to change one product at a time. Isn't that smart?! She is also interested to try vegan food with me. But since she is only eleven years, I would prefer if she was on some sort of dairy and meat, doesn't have to be much, until she reaches fully grown age of 21-25 years.

So, what we are in the process of doing here for now is to switching one product at time from meat and diary to plant based. First choice was butter. There are plenty of plant-based butters out there, and so we are switching our milk-based butter with green meadow and happy (my *ss!) cow on the package to the one which is vegan. We are also trying all kind of different plant-based "milk" products in order to stop drinking cow milk. Today we tried almond "milk", and may I say – yikes!! As soon as we drink that up, we will try oat "milk". But there are also rice "milk", coconut "milk" and soya "milk". But I need to research about soya. I've heard that soya production, like palm oil production, means a lot of rainforest devastation, and we would never want to contribute to that! So I have to check this up.

I have also now stopped buying meat and fish products. I do have some in the freezer, which I am in the process of eating up. As soon as they are gone, I need to start cooking vegan dishes. I don't eat that much meat anyway, so I don't think that I will suffer THAT much. But there ARE some foodstuffs that I am going to miss:

1. CHEESE

2. Eggs

3. Salami

4. BBQ meat or sausages in the summer

5. Mayonnaise

6. Tuna and haddock

7. Seafood

8. Hamburgers etc.

But one thing that I am going to miss most of all is cheese. I LOVE cheese. I love cheese from Greece, Italy, France, Spain, US and all kind of countries! So, I guess, that this will be the last product that I am going to switch following my daughter's one product at a time program.

I also know that I will cheat in the beginning, when there are special circumstances, like traveling or visiting friends and family for dinner etc. But not when I am home. This home will now slowly become vegan. And I hope that if it all goes well, in the future when one is used to vegan diet, one does not want to cheat even on special occasions. I also will not tell anything about this to my friends and family in the beginning due to many reasons.

So we'll see how it all goes from now on.

That's wassup! I am under going the same transformation. Focusing on going super healthy. I wouldn't fall under the category of complete vegan or vegetarian. Though I do buy as smart as possible, on things like honey, eggs, and etc. I don't eat any red meat, pork, or poultry. I make a small exception for tuna and salmon on occasion. Switching to small things, like pink Himalayan salt (with the minerals). Using coconut oil (unrefined) as my oil. I've tried in the past, and some how, always slipped back down. This time feels a lot different, in a good way, and its precarious to see others so interested in this type of thing right now as well. Good Luck to you!

Some small things you would might like to try out, feel free to drop some things you've found out to please!
Apple cider vinegar (with mother, organic) Coconut Oil (unrefined, organic) Pink Himalayan sea salt(unfiltered with minerals) Chocolate(90%or more cacao) Of course this is only the tip of the iceberg, but these I have tried and can testify for there efficacy. I buy organic spring mixes, and baby spinach. With a mix of fruit, nuts, and beans. As my main meals. Of course this type of raw no taste, doesn't really work for the kids. However it sure helps, to have my own so simple! I literally just throw a good mix on a plate, and go at it, no dressings, cheese, or conventional salad ingredients. I have been at it like three weeks, and I can tell a large difference in my tastes already. Its not that I am not attracted to those processed or greasy foods any more. Its that the green and raw food is much more attractive and appealing. And little by little, those urges for refined sugar, grease, and processed foods. Dwindles away, and a much higher vibration threshold, as well. Its truly wonderful!

Quote:I buy organic spring mixes, and baby spinach.

A tiny small suggestion in lieu of the rest of your post!

Unwashed greens are usually much more healthy and fresh than packaged, pre-washed greens. Just a tip in case this switch is easy for you. Plus, buying vegetables without any packaging is really one of the best things you can do - no plastic waste! One of my favorite switches as far as being low-waste goes actually is having bought mesh, reusable produce bags. These are pretty easy to find these days, my grocery has them for sale in the produce section. I also invested in a couple Vegibags, which do fantastic job of keeping produce fresh and crisp for several days in the fridge.

(06-11-2018, 08:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:I buy organic spring mixes, and baby spinach.

A tiny small suggestion in lieu of the rest of your post!

Unwashed greens are usually much more healthy and fresh than packaged, pre-washed greens. Just a tip in case this switch is easy for you. Plus, buying vegetables without any packaging is really one of the best things you can do - no plastic waste! One of my favorite switches as far as being low-waste goes actually is having bought mesh, reusable produce bags. These are pretty easy to find these days, my grocery has them for sale in the produce section. I also invested in a couple Vegibags, which do fantastic job of keeping produce fresh and crisp for several days in the fridge.

Thank you, I really like those suggestions, hit me with some more.

(06-11-2018, 12:01 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2018, 08:14 AM)Quan Wrote: [ -> ]Good luck with new venture with your daughter, it can be looked at as a tough thing to do but on the other side its a new exiting world of different foods to experiment with and so forth, new chapter in a book so to speak.

Yes, it is! I was in our supermarket last night and looked through the vegan alternatives. WOW! I am glad that there is a lot to choose! It feels like indeed a new and exciting world is opening!

The only thing that bothers me is that there is a lot of soya beans used in these products due to the high protein content in the soya bean. I researched soya production, and it showed that 80 % of this production goes directly to our animals used for meat and milk. So, there it is! Just another heavy reason for stopping eating dairy and meat products.

Soya production, especially in Brazil, is sometimes equalled to palm oil production. And though, eating soya products is not as bad as eating dairy and meat, it is still not something that I want to choose to do, unless it is certified and biologically sustainable soya and palm oil. For instance, last night when I was going through all those vegan products, I looked at one sour cream product used for cooking. It contained both palm oil and soya which was not certified. What were they thinking of there, when producing it? If they do make an effort to make a vegan sour cream for cooking, why choose products in it which still destroy our planet and make animals suffer (like orangutangs in palm oil industry)? But good thing is that many products do use certified palm oil and soya beans.

Haha yeah Supermarkets love the soya vegan products but yeah I went through the WOW thing too, theres a small organic grocery i go to only recently i noticed how much large Supermarkets have stocked.. Shocking  as only happened more recently.  Of all people it was my Mum who found out, took a while for her to adapt..  but now she really relishes cooking new creative vegan dishes when i visit  It is quite funny her enthusiasm. 
Thanks for that info on the Soya  too i think some of the people making the products think "oh near enough is good enough" but forgot the ethical side, like a little kid giving something difficult a go  points for trying but not there yet

It is not good to be paranoid about our own little safety, but it seems that soy is one of the food which has been most manipulated as gmo, so it might be good to check once in a while how the little soybean you find is....

What do you, guys, replace the eggs with in for instance pancakes? I thought to make zucchini pancakes on vegan butter and "milk", but what do I replace the eggs with? The eggs make the whole thing to stick together when fried in vegetarian pancakes, but how do you make vegan pancakes?

(06-18-2018, 01:42 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]What do you, guys, replace the eggs with in for instance pancakes? I thought to make zucchini pancakes on vegan butter and "milk", but what do I replace the eggs with? The eggs make the whole thing to stick together when fried in vegetarian pancakes, but how do you make vegan pancakes?

https://www.jessicagavin.com/vegan-pancakes/

Quote:Making pancakes requires essential base ingredients like flour, sugar, eggs, milk, oil or butter, and leavening agents. If you’re on a vegan diet or have other restrictions, then egg substitutes, and non-dairy milk and fat is required.

Here are some ways to make simple swaps but still lock in the distinctive pancake taste.

• Flour: All-purpose wheat flour is used to give the most similar texture to traditional pancake recipes. However, other flours for cooking like whole wheat, or gluten-free can be used with some taste variances.
  
  
• Sweetener: Organic sugar is used for a clean sweetness. Other types of sugarscan be used like coconut sugar or maple syrup. Although, the color made be less golden and the taste will have more of an earthy caramel flavor.
  
  
• Flaxseeds: Ground flaxseeds have often been used as a flax egg to provide structure and binding in baking and cooking. The flax seeds are added to the dry ingredients, become hydrated by the wet ingredients, and get sticky to
  help with keeping the pancake batter together.
  
  
• Coconut Oil: Can be a substitute for butter, coconut oil can be melted and added to the pancake mixture. Vegetable oil can also be used if coconut oil is not available.
  
  
• Cashew Milk: With a little sweet and subtle nutty flavor, this dairy-free milk adds depth to the pancakes. Oat milk is another excellent substitute if available. Soy milk, almond milk, and rice can also be used. However, those flavors will infuse into the cakes, and sometimes the pancakes will not brown as well. It’s best to use room temperature milk to prevent the melted coconut oil from solidifying when mixed.
  
  
• Leavening Agents: By using a combination of baking soda and baking powder, plus lemon juice, the mixture creates carbon dioxide bubbles, giving a boosted lift for light, fluffy pancakes.
  

Quote:Flaxseeds are not only a source of fiber and omega-3 fatty acids, but it also has impressive binding power in recipes. When hydrated with water, ground flaxseeds (also known as flaxseed meal) creates a sticky coating with a similar texture to egg whites. It has an earthy flavor with a slightly fibrous texture. Do not use whole flax seeds as they do not get sticky in water.

Awesome! Thanks, brother. Will try!

(06-18-2018, 01:42 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]What do you, guys, replace the eggs with in for instance pancakes? I thought to make zucchini pancakes on vegan butter and "milk", but what do I replace the eggs with? The eggs make the whole thing to stick together when fried in vegetarian pancakes, but how do you make vegan pancakes?

You can find this almost anywhere and it works great for everything.

(06-18-2018, 02:40 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2018, 01:42 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]What do you, guys, replace the eggs with in for instance pancakes? I thought to make zucchini pancakes on vegan butter and "milk", but what do I replace the eggs with? The eggs make the whole thing to stick together when fried in vegetarian pancakes, but how do you make vegan pancakes?

You can find this almost anywhere and it works great for everything.

Does that provide the same protein and such as eggs do? I take it there's no cholesterol.

(06-18-2018, 02:40 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-18-2018, 01:42 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]What do you, guys, replace the eggs with in for instance pancakes? I thought to make zucchini pancakes on vegan butter and "milk", but what do I replace the eggs with? The eggs make the whole thing to stick together when fried in vegetarian pancakes, but how do you make vegan pancakes?

You can find this almost anywhere and it works great for everything.

Wow! I didn't know that this existed! I hope that I can find it in Sweden now.

(06-19-2018, 09:32 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Wow! I didn't know that this existed! I hope that I can find it in Sweden now.

This product has been around since I first became vegetarian in the 90's. If you can't find it at a store, it's easy to order it online.

Many have been talking here about meat substitutes. For anyone wanting to transition to vegan or vegetarian, there are so many delicious products and here are a few:

1. Quorn products (frozen section), made from mycoprotein. Some are vegan, some vegetarian. Their burgers are so good, hard-core meat-eaters say they are the best burgers they ever tasted. They have "chicken breast" fillets that are great sliced and put on a sandwich. They make vegan fishless sticks that are really tasty. All of their frozen products are good.

2. Gardein products (frozen section) are almost all vegan, and they are all good. I agree with Jade that their crab cakes are awesome. And I love their fishless fillets. The crispy tenders are awesome.

3. I have served spaghetti to omnivorous guests with "grounds" (from almost any brand—they're all good) and no one ever knows it's not meat.

4. Cheese. Wow—here you will be surprised. Miyoko's Kitchen: (online) (made with nuts)—out of this world vegan cheeses. You will LOVE the buffalo mozzarella if you want pizza. The smoked cheddar she makes is amazing. Every single one of her cheeses is great; and she sells a book of how to make them yourself. Choa: I get this in the grocery store in the refrigerated section. Perfect for a toasted cheese sandwich, melt on a burger, or just to eat a slice (soy product). Daiya: (grocery store)—has many varied products. The sliced cheddar is good on a sandwich (refrigerated section); they make a vegan pizza in the frozen section; yummy vegan cheesecake and key lime cheesecake (frozen section); and a great (easy) boxed macaroni and cheese (I like to add a little siracha and sliced grape tomatoes, or maybe broccoli or asparagus, to this).

5. If you visit an Asian store (we have Lee Lee's here in AZ which is huge and the size of a Walmart), they may have some vegetarian/vegan products in the frozen section. Verisoy is really good, and most of their products are vegan. They make fish fillets that are incredible—sliced and wrapped with seaweed. Black pepper steak, non-breaded chicken nuggets are both awesome (I think they are both seitan).

6. Best Foods actually makes a vegan mayonnaise now, and many grocery stores carry it alongside their other mayos. 

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@ IGW: I don't know about the protein in the egg replacer product. I'm sure those stats are online as well.

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And for those who have not seen this incredibly entertaining video, I just have to post it again…

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@ Jade: we should make a "Bring Forth Vegans" cookbook.

Awesome! Thanks for all info, Diana!

(06-20-2018, 04:07 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Awesome! Thanks for all info, Diana!

Remember that most Soy that is produced in the world now (U.S., Brazil, Uruguay, Thailand, Australia) is GMO....carrying Glyphosate residues, and having other residual effects (such as the extinction of beautiful insects, due to loss of weed diversity.... ).  Be careful about what you ingest.

I'm thinking of going vegan because it would be one step more difficult and just than I am doing now.

For a long time, on and off, I have tried or felt the urge to shift to a vegan type diet. With a few modifacations of my own. I only use the term vegan as the closest term available to represent what I mean. However I would always fall back, and begin to eat the nasty manufactured "food".

Four days ago I got pretty sick, and now aware it was a spiritual sickness. After Two days of being I'll, I began to feel better and want food. When I went to eat, I found it practically impossible to eat meat.

Since that day I have had the overwhelming urge to change my diet.

Not only that but I have smoked weed since I was 16 years old. I just turned 31 two weeks ago. So I have smoked a fairly long time. Now I even have the urge to quit smoking, and have. My overall energy or frequency is already much higher, amd the resistances I felt, especially in heart ray and orange ray, are almost completely gone.

Now I am not saying weed or non vegan food styles are good or bad. I am saying you should eat and do what you feel is right for yourself.

However the transformation is only beginning, and I have known for quiet awhile, that to hit that next "level", I would need to quit weed. So BIG things are happening here.

Love you all!

I tried going vegetarian and gave up after an embarrassing scene was made at a restaurant and after going for so long eating mostly just beans and rice every day. I suppose I should go vegetarian again, but I'm trying to slowly work vegetarian alternatives into my diet. So far that's not panning out either.