Today I went down and sat on the banks of the Kansas river for a while, enjoying the sun and a nice breeze, when I started picking small rocks out of the mud and flipping them into the water. After watching a few splash and enjoying the way the waves radiated outwards, I picked up another. My thought process was something like, "I wonder what events brought this rock here to this bank? What events has it seen? Where has it been?" I intended to simply send it on its way downstream, pondering where else its journey might lead. Then I got to thinking, hey, this rock contains some form of awareness. I thought how far ahead of the rock I was, in terms of spiritual evolution, and how far ahead of me others are. The more I thought about it, the more confusing the issue of awareness became.
In first density it seems that most of the elements involved have such wildly varying lengths of life (not quiet sure it could be called incarnation) that I don't see how advancement would be possible in some situations. Take my rock for instance. Presumably it is only a fragment of a much larger piece. I'll leave out the question of minerals vs rocks (which contain multiple kinds of minerals) and the unnecessary complications that entails. When that larger chunk of rock was shattered, was this the end of yet another stage of 1st density evolution, or does a part still live inside the smaller fragment? If so, is there a point when that developing consciousness would choose to leave its rock body, or would it hang around for the many, many long years it would take for the rock to erode/dissolve naturally?
OR, and this is only coming to me as I type and maybe I've misunderstood, has 1st density already moved on, and we're simply seeing the relics of it? In other words, 1st density is over, having progressed into 2nd, 3rd, etc., and that there is no 1st density consciousness on the planet?
i think it would be more precise to consider it a 'rock spirit' beingness, a state of being, that exists within that rock. general rock spirit state would differ from rock to rock, with infinite variations and nature, within themselves.
and more importantly;
did you stop to think that whether that rock wanted to be moved from its location or not, or to be shattered ?
Interesting thoughts- I've sort of assumed that the first density elements are not exactly like us in third density with respect to the way our consciousness always exists inside our body. Rather that the first density is a shell that can be entered or left at will for the purpose of experiencing. So imagining yourself for example- at one point in your spiritual journey you were a dis-incarnate entity who was very young. Your first lessons were to learn the ways of the creation by experiencing it first hand. Later on, you finished your lessons and prepared to enter second density.
Further, I think you needn't worry overly much about the single rock you picked up. Although it is physically separated from the larger rock in which it originally came from, it is still 'together' in the larger sense of being on it's true parent rock, Earth. Much as you can watch an ant colony or hive of bees work together in unison (for they are collectively one entity), so too is your rock "one" with all others irrespective of location.
As far as the question about did you rock want to be moved or not- I cannot say, but I personally would consider it a great honor to be picked up and moved about if for no other reason than I may never again have such an opportunity (much less interact in some fashion with an entity two densities above me).
I'd love to hear what some others think about the first density.
Love and Light, ~Lavazza
(09-20-2010, 10:59 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]As far as the question about did you rock want to be moved or not- I cannot say, but I personally would consider it a great honor to be picked up and moved about if for no other reason than I may never again have such an opportunity (much less interact in some fashion with an entity two densities above me).
or, you would feel very annoyed, since you have been burned and frozen and grinded for aeons going about around the planet and in its crust and finally were enjoying a brief interlude of peace without change.
what you would consider an 'opportunity' may not be as such for the other.
I kinda doubt that rocks are able to be annoyed or pleased, or that they want something for themselves...
Not having nervous systems they are limited in their functions... They do have consciousness just not the functions we associate with the nervous system.
Self is a 3d concept.. 2d animals don't have it fully developed. Rocks don't have it either. The consciousness of rock is easy to feel. If you keep any rock between the thumb and pointing finger you create a circle. In this circle if the rock is very aware, contains much consciousness it will feel like a current runs that circle. Round rocks are better at this than pointy rocks. I think pointy rocks are not closed so they don't have any differentials. This is how you select which rock to carry with you.
Connecting your consciousness to that of a rock is much harder. They don't have the mind/emotions/will that humans have. So it is hard to recognize if you've done it. There is the IAM... But I think that's the extent of what you can expect of a rock.
The way I understand it, us humans still have 1d consciousness. We have the IAM and the sense of being. We have 2d patterns added to this, and 3d patterns added to the 2d patterns. Right now we're adding 4d patterns of interaction to the 1d 2d 3d patterns that already exist in us..
annoying or being pleased is translation of the situation to our understanding frame.
the preferences of rocks, their experiences would include 'change', 'being changed', and motion.
How does that work? Where is the happiness of the rock located? Because we can point at it in humans. If it is the same emotion. We should create it through the same mechanism.
it should not be taken as just a simple concept like 'happiness'. it should be understood more in the violet ray equivalent of being comfortable with its density/surroundings and the rate of change.
or, violet ray's equivalent for earlier octave. ie, balance and its situation in regard to the other balances in the environment.
But is a stone not always in balance? What would be different about a stone that is uncomfortable?
balance always changes. if we say the entity comes to a balance towards the end of 7d in this octave, and passes to 8th, still, a new octave starts in later stages of 8d, and then another journey of balancing also begins.
it is probable that there was a kind of 7d in the octave before this, and all entities got balanced in this octave, and then moved on to 8th, and in later stages of 8th, they started 1st of this octave.
so, it seems balance is something that is not fixed, unchanging. it forever changes.
(09-21-2010, 09:12 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]or, you would feel very annoyed, since you have been burned and frozen and grinded for aeons going about around the planet and in its crust and finally were enjoying a brief interlude of peace without change.
what you would consider an 'opportunity' may not be as such for the other.
I doubt this highly from my own intuitive point of view. Rocks and stones are usually at rest, and existing without a veil, polarity or brains / nervous systems I would say rather that any additional contact that can be made with any other part of God / All that is would be welcomed as additional experience / learning. We're all welcome to interpret differently however as we're really projecting third density attitudes on to lower density forms, I'm sure none of us have it exactly right.
Funny how the mystery extends in both directions, up and down the densities when you existed in a veiled mind complex and quarantined planet that are the components of a third density.
being without a nerve, polarity, veil, does not mean that the rock there is not sentient. being part of infinite intelligence doesnt mean that it wont feel anything or wont get affected. in the end, whatever that is introduced to infinite intelligence by you at that circumstance, is introduced through that rock. it is the contact point of the event. if you break it, it will get broken, whatever is felt/effected with that will get disseminated to infinite intelligence through that rock first, because that is the way with the manifestation of this density, actually, with the manifestation of multiple entities.
being more durable, or feeling/perceiving less than a higher density manifestation, does not mean that the intelligence manifesting as rock at that point will not experience anything. whatever principle is manifesting as the dominant principle in the density it is in (late 8d of last octave, and 1d of ours), will affect it.
I agree with you. There is an exchange. My point is that the exchange between you and the rock, even if you are reducing it to rubble with a sledge hammer does not automatically mean that it is a negative interaction as your previous message implied. 3rd density interacts with 1st density at all times, it's impossible not to. Or did I misinterpret your meaning?
L&L, ~L.
Thanks for the replies.
First, I don't think a rock would care much about being moved, especially since it has been in that river for an unknown amount of time, was deposited on the shore underneath the high water mark, meaning that it will inevitably continue to be moved by the elements. Stagnation is death, change is life. Even the mountains that we perceive to be unmovable and unchanging are indeed changing; not just from erosion, but stone is just as malleable as liquid, it just moves at a much slower rate. I like what Lavazza said about it being an honor to be moved. I'm giving the gift of my consciousness to that rock by its proximity to me, helping it to evolve, which is why I took the rock in the first place. I think Ra talked about that with some minerals and animals (pets).
Besides wanting to connect to 1st density objects with the intention of aiding their evolution, I also want to be able to speak, in a way, to them. When Ra talks about building the pyramids, he talks about them speaking to the inner awareness of the stones to communicate their desire for the stones to split and be shaped, to form the geometry of the pyramid, and so on. In my case it's not for the purpose of changing the rock, only a practice in communicating with what appears to be outside myself.
(09-21-2010, 07:19 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with you. There is an exchange. My point is that the exchange between you and the rock, even if you are reducing it to rubble with a sledge hammer does not automatically mean that it is a negative interaction as your previous message implied.
the nature of interaction depends on the preference of the rock.
Quote: 3rd density interacts with 1st density at all times, it's impossible not to. Or did I misinterpret your meaning?
L&L, ~L.
something being impossible not to do, does not alleviate its consequences.
action <=> reaction, cause <=> effect. these are probably 2 laws that do not change with universes. so that means, regardless of what happens, results will come into being.
lets look at it this way ; that rock, is going to be a 2d entity eventually. and in a few billion years, it will move to 3rd density.
it is rather naive to think that, situations and path taken, catalyst and effects experienced in a density does not affect the spirit/entity, but it only happens in 3d. cause-effect chains never go away, and every existing thing is intelligent, because they are part of intelligent infinity, and have spirit, even if not individualized.
therefore continually subjecting a 1d entity, or a spirit group (rock, water, air, certain elements) to situations they do not 'want' (not compatible with their existing balance, or heavier than their existing balance can carry), and do things to them definitely will make an effect on that part of infinite intelligence.
as an example, we are raving and moving earth, burning and disintegrating chemical substances, processing water and air, and this and that in this society as of now. it is evident that this is taking a toll on the planet, however, that aside, it is also destroying formations that have formed in billions of years on earth, and elements that have formed in maybe longer time on the planet.
what do you think the characteristic of the spirit will have become, when any part of that graduates into 2d ?
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(09-21-2010, 07:39 PM)CircleofOne Wrote: [ -> ]Even the mountains that we perceive to be unmovable and unchanging are indeed changing; not just from erosion, but stone is just as malleable as liquid, it just moves at a much slower rate. I like what Lavazza said about it being an honor to be moved. I'm giving the gift of my consciousness to that rock by its proximity to me, helping it to evolve, which is why I took the rock in the first place.
did you ask the rock whether your 'bestowing honor' was wanted or not ? no. you just assumed it to be so, and you thought it would aid its evolution. there is no such axiom. any kind of spiritual continuum present in infinite intelligence would need its particular catalyst, just like how different 3d entities need different types of encounters, interactions and energy acting upon them for any given incarnation to effect progress.
leaving aside the fact that automatically assuming that your presence was 'an honor' sounds rather self-important, it also lacks some basic logic :
lets have a random 5d entity manifest in the room you are in, just 45 cm away from you. what would happen ? it would be an 'honor' right ? you would probably think that you would feel high vibrations, high frequencies, and be elated, right ?
you wouldnt. the instant manifestation of an high vibration entity that had noticeable power and stronger balance than you would probably upset your violet balance, and would lead to consequences that could, on the extreme end, end up with mental instability or death. it is also possible that even if you suffer less critical upset of balance, it could affect the body in the long run, and lead to serious illness, and death.
probably only entities compatible with your balance would not cause such serious issues, and still in that case prolonged exposure to strong high frequency energy would still take its toll, the least of it being tiredom, the kind of which mediums generally experience. and in mediums' case the event is not a manifestation, it is generally on spirit level.
so in short, you do not hold a flashlight into one's eye to enlighten him/her. that goes with all the entities, not only 3d.
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Quote:Besides wanting to connect to 1st density objects with the intention of aiding their evolution, I also want to be able to speak, in a way, to them.
becoming sensitive about the nature, devas, spirits would accomplish this.
Quote:When Ra talks about building the pyramids, he talks about them speaking to the inner awareness of the stones to communicate their desire for the stones to split and be shaped, to form the geometry of the pyramid, and so on.
as you see, they communicated their desire, and stones, apparently accepted. grabbing and throwing a stone, is not the same. or bulldozing a mountain. what Ra did was from 6th level contact with intelligent energy, and may not be feasible or practical in current 3d. therefore, very probably, the above methods of being sensitive about nature and nature spirits would act as a substitute.
The problem is that we as humans have very little experience with well, being other things.
There's a difference between the iam presence of a rock, the inner infinite awareness and sentience. Sentience includes a component of outer awareness and responsiveness to the outside... This is obviously not the case for a rock.
A rock has no thoughts, no emotions, it has no opinions or agenda. It does not have a sense of self, it does not feel pain or pleasure. It is a rock. It has the consciousness of minerals. Which is IAM, the beingness.. Even though it's not aware of having beingness.
It's really quite simple, no nervous system, no functions associated with a nervous system. It makes absolutely no sense to personify rocks. They are not like us.
infinite intelligence is sentient. its intelligent. a rock, is not individualized in the sense we know in this octave's 3d. yet, that rock have passed from the earlier octaves' individualizations, regardless how they were. sentience or awareness are not something tied to nervous system, functions, being a person, 'i am beingness' or whatever nifty invention of this octave. they are natures of spirit, which is everything existing in this existence is made of.
leaving everything aside, that rock in closer union with infinite intelligence than you. infinite intelligence is the source everything about everything comes from. it is not a stupid, unaware source. your own sentience is just a subset of infinite intelligence.
in short, whatever you are doing to that rock, you are doing it to intelligent infinity. to think that intelligent infinity would not feel or be aware, is naive at best.
Unity I agree. It may not express feelings and emotions the same way we do. And its scale of time is certainly different. Perhaps the rock doesn't feel sad. Still, what we do to it, reflects back to us in some vibrational way. Imagine why people place value in crystals. Some are used for energy work. When one can tune into a rock, and feel that the energy is actually soft, perhaps dry, or wet feeling, there is a definite dynamic to it.
This is a great discussion. I love having a community where we can talk like this.
Circle, I had a college intro to geology class with lots of field trips. I think you might enjoy such a class.
I don't have the quote handy, but I remember Ra referred to first density as the elements that teach and learn from each other. 1D entities are learning the nature of physical existence and change. Eventually they learn enough about these, through life as an impersonal force that is present throughout the world. Then they graduate to second density awareness.
In 2D, physical life is added, in the form of a group soul for a plant or animal species. The difference is that there is a particular self-sustaining focal point for 2D. On earth this means using elements structured as genetic cells with DNA. This higher awareness comes with life's ability to interact with and modify the environment.
As I think about this, I wonder if something like a waterfall would be a high level of 1D existence. At a waterfall the elements would be getting ready to experience life's full abilities to eat, grow, move, reproduce etc.
Suppose that your rock was a piece of granite. I think that your river rock may have been one extension of the fundamental Spirit of Granite. Its nature is to have a lifecycle.
It responds to a collection of various minerals together inside molten earth, uniting them into a combined mass. This is its birth.
These structures then get moved up and down and around, split into fragments, washed down stream, held and tossed by curious humans. This is its life.
Ultimately all of that rock will be disassembled back into the more primal minerals and elements. This is its death.
That individual piece by the river was one cell, one part of the distributed body through which the Spirit of Granite evolves.
Compared to all the other forces that moved around that little cell of granite consciousness, your toss into the water was trivial. But it may have been that rock's first encounter with humanity, with a force able to move itself and decide where rocks should go. It might be a whole new catalyst that surprised the spirit of granite and helped its evolution.
Hawaiians say to not take home pieces of Pele. That would be an advanced 1D spirit that can connect with a particular location, and recognize positive or negative intentions from people.
Just my own speculations. Use whatever you like and skip the rest across a river.
The brain and central nervous system affect the reality the individual lives in. If you don't believe it, pop some acid. Then try to explain how the CNS has nothing to do with mental functions.
You are equating basic 1d mineral consciousness to 3d consciousness. Sentience means two things, first of all it means consciousness. A rock is conscious, I agree... Secondly it means awareness.. A rock is not aware if you wave at it, it won't know. If you kiss it or hit it with a sledge hammer fragmenting it into thousand parts it won't even notice the difference.. It will change it's function of retaining converting and emitting energy by having it's mineral structure changed. But it won't actually notice. Because it is a rock!
This is analogous to you.. I can shine uv light at you, and you won't know it. You are conscious, and aware, and you understand uv, but you won't know it, because you do not have the faculties to be aware of uv light.... If I did the same with visible light, you'd know instantly because you are capable of perceiving that.
Think along those lines. It's really simple and straight forward. Consciousness is not all the things that we are able to do...
Like I said, a rock has a very limited subset of our abilities.What is the point of evolution if a rock can do what a human can do?
The rock has IAM consciousness, same as you and me. A rock is able to store psychic information just like all matter, and just like you and me, memory. You can tune into this using psychic faculties. This means you can experience sadness from a rock, but this does not mean the rock is sad. The rock simply contains sadness stored there by a person able to create sadness. Mineral consciousness allows for some basic conversions of energy, this is why we use crystals for healing.
A hard drive can contain poetry, but it does not mean it understands poetry. A radio does not create music, it converts radio waves into sound. Consciousness is required for these functions. But the mind that exists in humans is neither required nor present.
There are two ways for a rock to experience higher density experiences. First by being tied into a higher density system, i.e. you put the rock in your pocket or somehow incorporate it into your body. Secondly it evolves into life over time. But it cannot generate 2d or 3d functions in it's rock stage. It simply is not evolved.
An animal can develop human like self awareness by being reasonably evolved and around humans. Or evolving all the way. Same story.
Thanks for clearing that up Ali. It brings up the interesting point about perception. Perhaps a rock has some underlying perception at its primitave (according to 3d) level of consciousness. Or maybe no percpetion at all. Unless we take Creator's perception through the rock.
Whether the rock wanted to be picked up or not, whether rocks are capable of feeling a want, preference, or desire, the rock WAS picked up and is sitting beside me now. I chose to do this, and the rock chose to go with me, as is evidenced by the fact it's sitting here.
That interaction alone is another experience for the rock and the energy inside it. That experience is a tool to be used by the rock, but also by me, as it has lead to me having a neat-looking new rock to hold while I meditate, as well as this discussion about 1st density. This discussion leads to new understanding on some level for all parties involved. Without the interaction between myself and the rock, it would in all likelihood still be partially buried in the sandy muddy banks of the river, enjoying a cool, overcast day. That's not to say that either situation is better than the other, but from our perspective it's experience lost out on by the rock still sitting there, as it has not brought about any perceptible lessons and experience to us.
Whether or not it was an honor for the rock to be picked up by me, it was still picked up, and it will experience a boost in its evolution due to the fact. The same would occur with anyone doing the same thing, but I imagine it would be a little stronger of a boost because of my very basic awareness of the Law of One.
If I were to go outside right now, and a UFO zoomed down and beamed me aboard, whisked me around on a tour of the galaxy, then beamed me back down before my soup got cold, that might not be what I planned to do with my afternoon, but hey, that's what happened. I didn't want to drop a cement brick on my left king toe a few weeks ago, but it happened all the same. Think how much I learned from that! I learned they don't really treat broken toes at the hospital. I learned how to drain the blood underneath the nail by drilling a hole into it with a knife. I learned how to step mighty carefully to avoid hitting it on anything.
People probably don't want to be mauled by bears, but it happens and they gain tremendous experience and knowledge from the events. We here know that that event was most likely programmed before that entities incarnation as one of many, many, many lessons intended to help with their spiritual progression. I have no idea if a rock is able to plan its incarnation, but compared with the usual fare, being picked up by a human is probably a major event that will be the catalyst for an infinite series of further events, each carrying a lesson and experience.
It's not what we intend to happen, but what does happen that HAPPENS.
Comparisons could be drawn on some level to Ra's encounters in Egypt, but only as far as a higher density being reaching down to aid in consciousness raising. The difference is that I am not attempting to teach the rock that it is one with all. Personally I think the energy within the rock is already aware of this, as we all are aware (only in our case its a mostly unperceived awareness), and perhaps far more aware of it. We don't know, really. I sadly can't text the rock to ask it.
Questioner, I took two semesters of geology a few years ago (comes up all the time in my field of music ;p) and I really enjoyed it. One of my professors used to work for oil companies, helping them find areas where oil was likely to occur. He would usually start off each class telling us insider info about the oil companies. This was back when gas was approaching $4/gallon. One lesson I remember in particular was when he dispelled the rumor of the earth having a solid iron core, by using what I think were called P-waves to sort of map the vibration of the earths interior. To me it immediately rang out "HOLLOW EARTH" at least on some level!
Thanks Ali, this is what I was trying to articulate about my thoughts on the rocks consciousness. You explained it much better
(09-22-2010, 12:12 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for clearing that up Ali. It brings up the interesting point about perception. Perhaps a rock has some underlying perception at its primitave (according to 3d) level of consciousness. Or maybe no percpetion at all. Unless we take Creator's perception through the rock.
Precisely. We have a tendency to think that if two people perceive the world they both perceive a distorted vision of a third reality. This is only the case in the average 3d scientific objective world view. There is the quantum mechanical alternative that perception causes things to become manifest. In this vision there is no third reality unless it is accompanied by a third perceiver/creator. This is co-creation.
But, no perception is possible without consciousness, something has to perceive. Therefore all perception is directly related to that consciousness. A rock is more than what we hold in our hands. But what it is is directly related to what we hold in our hands. And we know from Ra's description of the densities that this consciousness is structured differently.
The perception of the creator exists in the rock of course, just as it exists everywhere. But ask yourself what this means to you. For you it means you have IAM presence. And the faculties that your mind body complex enables. For a rock it means the same. And that's limited just like we are, we have mineral consciousness as well. But our faculties are evolved from this.
(09-22-2010, 11:42 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]The brain and central nervous system affect the reality the individual lives in. If you don't believe it, pop some acid. Then try to explain how the CNS has nothing to do with mental functions.
You are equating basic 1d mineral consciousness to 3d consciousness. Sentience means two things, first of all it means consciousness. A rock is conscious, I agree... Secondly it means awareness.. A rock is not aware if you wave at it, it won't know. If you kiss it or hit it with a sledge hammer fragmenting it into thousand parts it won't even notice the difference.. It will change it's function of retaining converting and emitting energy by having it's mineral structure changed. But it won't actually notice. Because it is a rock!
thats a very shallow understanding of infinite intelligence.
what you call nervous system is just a mechanism that triggers the channels that open various connections to whatever spiritual influence that is associated with it in the tool that is known as brain, which is the tool of the mind for manifesting in physical realm.
it is not some separate, native thing that is exclusive to this octave's 2d and above. nothing that is experienced and felt comes outside from anything but spirit.
the physical realm, the physical creation that is created, and the individualized bodily manifestation that is provided just acts as a limiter of influences and experiences and feelings, so that they can be experienced discretely. this provides for the means to subject various portions of infinite intelligence who are needing particular influences/experiences exclusively, to experience these without being too entangled with other influences.
in short, its a limiter.
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in addition, what you call 'it is a rock !', is a higher form of manifestation that is over the 8th octave of the last density.
with your mindset, it would be easy to reduce the 8th octave of this density to the same 'base' status of 'it is a rock !' with your logic.
then, that would make the 7d entities of this octave even lesser manifestations and entities, and the 6d entities, including Ra society complex, even lesser entities than those.
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awareness and consciousness are not two separate things. they are the same.
part of infinite intelligence manifesting as the rock, is not 'unaware' of your actions, your deeds, your effect on it, if it has been otherwise, ra wouldnt be able to communicate their desire to the rocks now constituting the pyramid, and those rocks would not proceed to take on very complex shapes in perfect orientation required for manifestation of the pyramid. through that example, we know not only that a rock can be aware of things and conscious, but also you can communicate with them.
everything aside, that rock is in a closer union with infinite intelligence. it does not need a body a central nervous system, a brain to be conscious or aware of anything. those are just there to individualize and separate you from infinite intelligence, so concept of being more than one, multiple entities can be experienced and deepened.
in addition, spirit does not need a brain, a body, or individualized consciousness in order to feel, experience or be aware. spirit, is the source from which all of these come from. the source which supplies all these, the infinite intelligence, is that rock, yourself and everything else.
in short, while you are attributing base adjectives to that rock and underestimating its awareness, you are attributing base adjectives to infinite intelligence, and underestimating its awareness.
Quote:This is analogous to you.. I can shine uv light at you, and you won't know it. You are conscious, and aware, and you understand uv, but you won't know it, because you do not have the faculties to be aware of uv light.... If I did the same with visible light, you'd know instantly because you are capable of perceiving that.
Think along those lines. It's really simple and straight forward. Consciousness is not all the things that we are able to do...
Like I said, a rock has a very limited subset of our abilities.What is the point of evolution if a rock can do what a human can do?
The rock has IAM consciousness, same as you and me. A rock is able to store psychic information just like all matter, and just like you and me, memory. You can tune into this using psychic faculties. This means you can experience sadness from a rock, but this does not mean the rock is sad. The rock simply contains sadness stored there by a person able to create sadness. Mineral consciousness allows for some basic conversions of energy, this is why we use crystals for healing.
A hard drive can contain poetry, but it does not mean it understands poetry. A radio does not create music, it converts radio waves into sound. Consciousness is required for these functions. But the mind that exists in humans is neither required nor present.
There are two ways for a rock to experience higher density experiences. First by being tied into a higher density system, i.e. you put the rock in your pocket or somehow incorporate it into your body. Secondly it evolves into life over time. But it cannot generate 2d or 3d functions in it's rock stage. It simply is not evolved.
An animal can develop human like self awareness by being reasonably evolved and around humans. Or evolving all the way. Same story.
all of your analogies are wrong in that, they just approach the situation from the understanding of a 3d entity, which thinks individual awareness and experiences are something different, higher, or more precise, than collective continuous awareness and understanding.
basically you are thinking that your individualized consciousness, feelings, understanding is, for some reason, different than the unified, in-unison consciousness that is called infinite intelligence, the thing which you are also a part of.
spirit, affects, spirit. this is not only a reality, but it is also inevitable. regardless of how individualized you are, and how in-unison with infinite intelligence another entity you see in the physical manifestation around you, the spirit that is attached to an individualized unit in you is going to affect what continuous spirit individualization that is attached to those rocks manifesting in front of you.
even if there were no rocks, no physical body around, and you were in time/space, your spirit would still affect those continuous rock spirit, and vice versa.
the fact that the rock's individualization level from infinite intelligence is not as individualized as yours, would not change this simple phenomenon. spirit. it is individualized as a rock spirit that is in continuum with the infinite intelligence in that level, and you are individualized as a 3 d hominid that is seemingly separated from infinite intelligence that much.
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more than that, anything you are doing to 'that rock', you are doing to infinite intelligence.
(09-22-2010, 03:02 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]thats a very shallow understanding of infinite intelligence.
No, it's a practical one, one in which every claim can be verified experimentally and that does not depend on vague rationales the challenge of which remains unanswered.
Quote:what you call nervous system is just a mechanism that triggers the channels that open various connections to whatever spiritual influence that is associated with it in the tool that is known as brain, which is the tool of the mind for manifesting in physical realm.
If that were true, then the mind cannot be affected by stimulation of the brain... Yet it clearly is affected by physical events... Like trauma, inebriation or precise electrical stimulation.
Quote:it is not some separate, native thing that is exclusive to this octave's 2d and above. nothing that is experienced and felt comes outside from anything but spirit.
No it's not.. I never claimed that.. I said the one is evolved on the basis of the other. Not that it was separate.
Quote:in short, its a limiter.
A claim as bold as that can be backed up by real life examples I'm sure... Damage to the brain limits the mind. If the brain is a limiter then according to your logic damage to the brain would improve the mind..
It's not as simple as you think it to be.
(09-22-2010, 04:45 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]No, it's a practical one, one in which every claim can be verified experimentally and that does not depend on vague rationales the challenge of which remains unanswered.
if you mean that going back and unifying with infinite intelligence at the end of 7th density in each octave, and remaining in unison towards end of 8th density as 'vague rationale', then it means what Ra text tells us regarding going back 'to the infinite creator' was unverifiable vague rationale.
the rock, 1d entity, is united with infinite intelligence. infinite intelligence is that rock, and that rock is infinite intelligence.
this is a simple concept that is relayed to us in Ra text. but apparently, it is so easily ignored.
Quote:Quote:what you call nervous system is just a mechanism that triggers the channels that open various connections to whatever spiritual influence that is associated with it in the tool that is known as brain, which is the tool of the mind for manifesting in physical realm.
If that were true, then the mind cannot be affected by stimulation of the brain... Yet it clearly is affected by physical events... Like trauma, inebriation or precise electrical stimulation.
apparently you havent read what i said about this, or didnt understand it well.
brain is the tool of the mind, which is the gate that spirit flows to the physical realm. and as i said before, if any particular channel is stimulated through anything, be it any event or any drugs, relevant flows to or from the spirit are unleashed in brain, bringing forth whatever state of being that is associated with that channel. that includes ecstasy, pain, and mixture of whatever infinite mixtures that there can be.
it does not need to be 'physical' in any event either. through hypnosis or stimulation through nerve system, same results can be accomplished.
Quote:No it's not.. I never claimed that.. I said the one is evolved on the basis of the other. Not that it was separate.
you havent said as such, but you are ignoring its consequences easily.
if everything is spirit, and everything comes from spirit, then spirit will affect spirit. inevitably. it wont matter whether a certain vibration is in 1d, and the other in 3d, spirits will still affect each other.
Quote:A claim as bold as that can be backed up by real life examples I'm sure... Damage to the brain limits the mind. If the brain is a limiter then according to your logic damage to the brain would improve the mind..
It's not as simple as you think it to be.
it is a limiter that allows whatever limited with it, to manifest and work according to a certain reality frame that the brain is designed to fit in.
indeed, damage to the brain can unlock various faculties of mind, and also open channels to the spirit. drugs can do the same too. yet, because the particular reality/conditions that comprise this reality we live in on this 3d planet, results may lead to the entity being unable to work within the framework and requirements of that reality. extreme ecstasy, or madness, or delusions, or becoming aware of various other densities or astral planes that would affect the entity positively or negatively, distract or daze him/her, and many more.
or, the damage can damage the parts of the brain that allows the manifestation of mind faculties needed for functioning in this reality, and therefore disable the entity.
it is as simple as it can be. i said a limiter, not a barrier, or a cork. it limits the manifestations of mind to certain frameworks, so that actual manifestation and interactions in that framework are possible, and a reality that is orderly and manageable is created.
(09-22-2010, 05:03 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]the rock, 1d entity, is united with infinite intelligence. infinite intelligence is that rock, and that rock is infinite intelligence.
Intelligent infinity... There is a difference. And I dare say it's a big one. Intelligent infinity is nothing so crude as rationality.
The rock is clearly not intelligent in any way perceptible including empathic and telepathic powers. You will never have a talk with it. It does not solve problems. Matter is lumps of energy that mutate consciousness and fields. You can read a stone with your mind and emotional body, you cannot expect it to feel like you do. It does not have your glandular system.
Quote:brain is the tool of the mind, which is the gate that spirit flows to the physical realm. and as i said before, if any particular channel is stimulated through anything, be it any event or any drugs, relevant flows to or from the spirit are unleashed in brain, bringing forth whatever state of being that is associated with that channel. that includes ecstasy, pain, and mixture of whatever infinite mixtures that there can be.
The mind is used by the entity as a model of the world. By which it can physically interact with the world, and metaphysically it defines the world as it helps define perception.
Yes, but mind is that which brain produces, the product spirit uses the brain tool to get. Those gray cells have no other purpose than to process information. Your computer is not part of spirit, when you die it will become as inacessible to you as the product of your brain and as the product of your eyes. The body dies. We are more than it, and we remanifest. But disincarnate we do not have a brain.
When channelers channel they do so from their own brain tapping into the spirit of another entity. Which is why ancient native american spirits when channeled suddenly end up with British accents.
Telepathy, telekinesis, empathy, psychometry do not use the mind or body. They will remain possible. As when you have two (Or a billion) bodies you can think with two separate minds.
From top to bottom from left to right all along the spectrum of consciousness it is the same. Matter is about the most basic manifest consciousness, it allows transmutation. In this transmutation, chemical and physical interaction it emerges a new level of being in which life forms manifest. Which is also consciousness but of a higher level of complexity that could not manifest in matter alone. On top of this come the thoughtforms. They occupy us for most of our time so it is entirely understandable that we mistake them for our most private selves. We cannot imagine being without our thoughts. It scares us and we believe there is nothing else. But we both know there is.
Quote:Quote:No it's not.. I never claimed that.. I said the one is evolved on the basis of the other. Not that it was separate.
you havent said as such, but you are ignoring its consequences easily.
Maybe you should try to get into my head a bit more. So you can guess with a bit more accuracy what I ignore.
Quote:if everything is spirit, and everything comes from spirit, then spirit will affect spirit. inevitably. it wont matter whether a certain vibration is in 1d, and the other in 3d, spirits will still affect each other.
Sounds logical enough, two pitchforks respond to each other... However, only if they are the same frequency... 1d and 3d do not vibrate together in a causal manner like you think if they would there would only be a singular d...
No ant in an anthill is responsible for the colony behavior. Over time behavior started to manifest that allows the colony to manifest as an intelligence of it's own. This is higher order behavior and no ant affects it. The neurons in the brain behave in essentially the same way None of them determine what you're thinking. They work together to create a set of dynamic parameters that we call the brain..
You cannot understand the brain from the neurons alone. Neither can you understand an ant colony with just one ant. These are different levels of existence different levels of consciousness.
You seem to think I'm being overly materialistic, I see matter as consciousness, different organizations of matter function on different octaves. If what we call the spiritual ignores matter as a non relevant reality it is clearly not complete.
Matter is part of the spirit, not the other way around.
Quote:it is a limiter that allows whatever limited with it, to manifest and work according to a certain reality frame that the brain is designed to fit in.
Or an enabler that creates a reality for that brain to function in? Are you creator or creation?
Quote:indeed, damage to the brain can unlock various faculties of mind, and also open channels to the spirit. drugs can do the same too. yet, because the particular reality/conditions that comprise this reality we live in on this 3d planet, results may lead to the entity being unable to work within the framework and requirements of that reality. extreme ecstasy, or madness, or delusions, or becoming aware of various other densities or astral planes that would affect the entity positively or negatively, distract or daze him/her, and many more.
So basically if the brain disagrees with the higher self that manifests the world. This leads to conflict manifested in the mis matches.
If the higher self changes the rules, then the brain must change with it, or it cannot function in the new world. Which is what you see when you begin to become aware of new realities.
Quote:it is as simple as it can be. i said a limiter, not a barrier, or a cork. it limits the manifestations of mind to certain frameworks, so that actual manifestation and interactions in that framework are possible, and a reality that is orderly and manageable is created.
The difference I think between you and me is that you are looking from theory into reality. While the theory is sound it still traps you in the assumption that there is an outside reality to look in from. I look from the inside out. The IAM presence is the only reality there is. All else individually is not what we are. All else together is only a small part of it.
Evolution is when IAM starts manifesting itself in patterns it has created. In practice this is when we start to take responsibility for our actions and identify with them. They were reflections of the IAM from the start. But only potentially true. Untill IAM says I am this. And begins to engage in even more complex interactions
everything that exists is intelligent infinity. there is no 'difference'. what you name as 'rationale' is also intelligent infinity. it is a concept that is existing within intelligent infinity. not even infinity, because, the concept you name as 'rationale' actually exists. therefore, it is on the 'existing' side of infinity, which happens to be intelligent infinity.
you are just overly mystifying and distancing intelligent infinity with mysticism.
these are not 'theories', these are not 'thoughts', these are not 'beliefs'. ra communicated with rocks in egypt and relayed them their desire to build a pyramid in this fashion. rock beingness accepted it, and became a pyramid. rock beingness is aware, rock beingness can talk, can communicate, and assume complex shapes based on the communication and thought another entity relayed. this is what we understand from Ra.
what else we know from Ra is, everything that exists is intelligent energy. period. the desk, the rocks, the air, the water, the mouse, they are all intelligent, sentient energy, and they are part of the continuous sentient energy we know as intelligent infinity.
these are conclusions of what we learn from Ra. some are not even 'conclusions', but directly told to us as they are.
i would understand if you were saying that Ra says like that, but you disagree, and according to you intelligent infinity should not be something that you can see and touch and feel, but something mystified, far away ..
(09-23-2010, 09:43 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]these are not 'theories', these are not 'thoughts', these are not 'beliefs'. ra communicated with rocks in egypt and relayed them their desire to build a pyramid in this fashion. rock beingness accepted it, and became a pyramid. rock beingness is aware, rock beingness can talk, can communicate, and assume complex shapes based on the communication and thought another entity relayed. this is what we understand from Ra.
Cite Ra on this will you? Because I got a very different impression from the text. Ra formed the rock, the rock did not form itself. Even though the rock is living and contains intelligent infinity. This does not mean rock is able to decide for it'self "oi I'll be a pyramid now!"
The sheep dog can perform tricks under guidance of a human shepherd that it is unable to do on it's own.. This is the same situation. Ra's guidance allows the stone to change.
Do you know the
mechanical turk? It was frequently mistaken for intelligent.
Quote:what else we know from Ra is, everything that exists is intelligent energy. period. the desk, the rocks, the air, the water, the mouse, they are all intelligent, sentient energy, and they are part of the continuous sentient energy we know as intelligent infinity.
You keep going on about this but this is not a point of discussion...
Our discussion is about the faculties that stones have available to them. I say there have basic consciousness and the IAM, so sentient energy yes, but that does not mean having the equivalent of a brain, you say they talk and think and have veritable lives of their own. They do not. It's first density consciousness.
You say something along the lines of a rock contains intelligent infinity. Therefore they talk... That does not follow!
Quote:these are conclusions of what we learn from Ra. some are not even 'conclusions', but directly told to us as they are.
I think you would make great progress if you quote Ra on some of these things...
Quote:i would understand if you were saying that Ra says like that, but you disagree, and according to you intelligent infinity should not be something that you can see and touch and feel, but something mystified, far away ..
I don't quite get this sentence.
Let me assure you I know for a fact intelligent infinity IS something you can touch and feel. It is not mystified or far away. I don't understand where you got that impression. We're talking about the faculties of stones.
(09-23-2010, 10:52 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ] (09-23-2010, 09:43 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]these are not 'theories', these are not 'thoughts', these are not 'beliefs'. ra communicated with rocks in egypt and relayed them their desire to build a pyramid in this fashion. rock beingness accepted it, and became a pyramid. rock beingness is aware, rock beingness can talk, can communicate, and assume complex shapes based on the communication and thought another entity relayed. this is what we understand from Ra.
Cite Ra on this will you? Because I got a very different impression from the text. Ra formed the rock, the rock did not form itself. Even though the rock is living and contains intelligent infinity. This does not mean rock is able to decide for it'self "oi I'll be a pyramid now!"
you want a citation for what ?
ra communicating their will for the rock getting shaped, and the rock accepting it ?
http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...c=1&ss=1#8
Quote:3.8 Questioner: How were the blocks moved?
Ra: I am Ra. You must picture the activity within all that is created. The energy is, though finite, quite large compared to the understanding/distortion of your peoples. This is an obvious point well known to your peoples, but little considered.
This energy is intelligent. It is hierarchical. Much as your mind/body/spirit complex dwells within an hierarchy of vehicles and retains, therefore, the shell, or shape, or field, and the intelligence of each ascendingly intelligent or balanced body, so does each atom of such a material as rock. When one can speak to that intelligence, the finite energy of the physical, or chemical, rock/body is put into contact with that infinite power which is resident in the more well-tuned bodies, be they human or rock.
With this connection made, a request may be given. The intelligence of infinite rock-ness communicates to its physical vehicle and that splitting and moving which is desired is then carried out through the displacement of the energy field of rockness from finity to a dimension which we may conveniently call, simply, infinity.
In this way, that which is required is accomplished due to a cooperation of the infinite understanding of the Creator indwelling in the living rock. This is, of course, the mechanism by which many things are accomplished which are not subject to your present means of physical analysis of action at a distance.
Quote:The sheep dog can perform tricks under guidance of a human shepherd that it is unable to do on it's own.. This is the same situation. Ra's guidance allows the stone to change.
Do you know the mechanical turk? It was frequently mistaken for intelligent.
you are expending an inane effort to refuse the intelligent energy's intelligence. the intelligent energy, which forms everything that exists.
i think that stems from the inattentive read of Ra text, as evidenced by the above surprise in hearing that the rock is intelligent and communicative, or, a selective ignoring of the excerpts and their consequences which would rather disturb the current understanding you have set up, distancing infinite intelligence as some 'mystic', 'distant' concept, instead of recognizing and understanding that everything that exists, is infinite intelligence, and you are swimming in a sea of infinite intelligence manifesting as intelligent energy, with yourself also being a part of that infinite intelligence.
else, you wouldnt debase 'stones' in your mind to something unintelligent, uncommunicative, and say 'just a rock'.
they arent. they are intelligent energy, and they are intelligent. just as everything else that exists.
your sheep dog example is totally irrelevant and off the subject - interactions with a sheep dog happen through the communication means available to the entities in this planet's reality, and they are limited by the sheep dog owner's brain, and the sheep dog's brain.
had the sheep dog owner been able to communicate with intelligent energy of dog being-ness, or the entity manifesting as dog, or the infinite energy that is manifesting as the dog's body as its atoms, the number of 'tricks' the sheep dog owner could ask of the sheep dog to accomplish would be infinite.
..................
i will end my participation in this sub branch as of now. you have apparently not read Ra text attentively, or you havent reflected on it enough, or you are selectively ignoring direct information it gives out, or its immediate conclusions. to the point that 'intelligent energy' loses its intelligence when you talk about it, in your examples.
i have referenced the case example regarding this issue above. anything regarding the conclusions or, even more regarding intelligent infinity and its intelligence, can be seen directly or concluded with numerous other q/as present in the pyramid subject from Ra text in lawofone info.