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this is quite an interesting (short) answer from Ra on the minor arcana.

Quote:88.22 Questioner: Were the Court Arcana and the Minor Arcana a portion of Ra’s teachings or was this something that came along later?

Ra: I am Ra.

Those cards of which you speak were the product of the influence of those of Chaldea and Sumer.

I am less interested (actually - not at all) in these cards for Divination, and much more in terms of them representing crystallized aspects of the human psyche.

In the minor arcana, we have 4 'sets':

Cups - the water element
Discs - the earth element
Swords - the air element
Wands - the fire element

And there are 10 cards in each (1-10), plus the King, Queen, Prince, and Princess cards (the court cards).

These formed the basis for the modern card deck used for games and gambling (blackjack, poker, old maid, etc).

Anyone utilised these for self development purposes?
I think that the minor arcana cards are best explained by way of the Tree of Life. It just fits so perfectly. The court cards are classified according to the name of Tetragrammaton: Yod Heh Vav Heh: King, Queen, Prince, Princess.
The minor arcana are assigned 1-10 to the ten Sephiroth, and the suits are the elements in the four worlds of the qabalists: Fire-Wands-Atziluth, Water-Cups-Briah, Air-Swords-Yetzirah, and Earth-Pentacles/Disks-Assiah.

The planets and zodiac signs can also shed light on the cards. These are astrological associations which explains what Ra says about the minor cards.
the Tree of Life really does provide a connective tissue, doesn't it?

I've never been drawn to study it myself, though.  The actual structure of it doesn't appeal to me in any way (the 3 Pillars etc).  But props to people who can utilise it.  Ra validates it as a perfectly equal system to utilise for the inner journey.

is there a set of minor arcana (a deck) that you find particularly appealing, on a personal level?

For a starting point, I'm just using the Ryder-Waite deck and Thoth as two distinct takes on it.

The Ryder-Waite is truly evocative and classic.  

For eg, this simple depiction of the Ace of Wands just carries an elegant and penetrative message.

[Image: 2qNscwA.jpg]

like - unambiguous!
I have neither deck. My interest in tarot at this point is finding the closest Egyptian tarot cards to the ones shown in book IV of the Ra material and try to study the major Arcana of the tarot, as instructed by Ra and expanded on elsewhere in this forum. However, once I get through studying that, my next deck I am thinking of studying is the Thoth tarot. Beautiful and unique artwork, packed with depth and symbolism, it seems like the Thoth tarot has much substance. I am worried however, about the possibility that study of the Thoth tarot MAY be an unhealthy practice, simply because Ra himself said Aleister Crowley was a rather unhealthy man...

Other cool tarot decks which interest me:
Voyager, Manga, Sasuraibito, Fountain, Tarot of the Sweet Twilight, Mystical Manga, Tarot Illuminati, the Steampunk tarot and purely for the art: the XIII tarot.

Also, purely for the fanboy in me: the Legends of Zelda tarot, also, somebody on DeviantART made a set of major and minor arcana SSB tarot that if I could prin t them into actual cards would be pretty sweet to add to a collection.

Also, the Shibitosuu Oracle Divination set looks cool, but it's in Japanese. Still, could be a way to learn more about their Kanji. That's pretty cool.

Ultimately though, I think studying Egyptian tarot as laid out by Ra and on this forum is the best start, and contains PLENTY of depth to it!

Also, studying the traditional Rider-Waite deck is useful since so many use it. But the Egyptian tarot seems like the best idea to start off. In my opinion. Just cause it's recommended by Ra to study the major arcana and the Egyptian ones carry the least distortion from what Ra originally introduced.
yeah - those are some good thoughts for sure EP.

Totally agree.

The framework that Ra laid out for the first 22 cards just makes *total sense*.  It got me into the tarot, in the same way that their psychological explanation of the energy centers got me into the chakras.  Before Ra's commentary on these 'systems', I was not at all interested in delving deeper  into these particular traditions - and in some way - there's very little supporting material for the frameworks that Ra laid out.  They just have a different structural understanding of things that is beautifully coherent (at least in my eyes).

So yeah - for sure - definitely work with what they offered.

/ /

this recent excursion of mine (into the minor arcana) is just to see what fruit lies in these other cards that we have.

/ /

thanks for mentioning some of those other decks.  I guess there's hundreds of them out there!

/ /

re: the Thoth cards ... there's definitely some imbalanced energy underlying some of the artwork and concepts conveyed.  Like the movements aren't 'complete'.  But in terms of providing an alternative take on things, it can definitely trigger some thoughts.  And catalyst being what it is - it can be turned to positive, negative, or unutilised ends.

Cheers for the thoughts!
(08-14-2018, 03:23 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]yeah - those are some good thoughts for sure EP.

Totally agree.

The framework that Ra laid out for the first 22 cards just makes *total sense*.  It got me into the tarot, in the same way that their psychological explanation of the energy centers got me into the chakras.  Before Ra's commentary on these 'systems', I was not at all interested in delving deeper  into these particular traditions - and in some way - there's very little supporting material for the frameworks that Ra laid out.  They just have a different structural understanding of things that is beautifully coherent (at least in my eyes).

So yeah - for sure - definitely work with what they offered.

/ /

this recent excursion of mine (into the minor arcana) is just to see what fruit lies in these other cards that we have.

/ /

thanks for mentioning some of those other decks.  I guess there's hundreds of them out there!

/ /

re: the Thoth cards ... there's definitely some imbalanced energy underlying some of the artwork and concepts conveyed.  Like the movements aren't 'complete'.  But in terms of providing an alternative take on things, it can definitely trigger some thoughts.  And catalyst being what it is - it can be turned to positive, negative, or unutilised ends.

Cheers for the thoughts!

Totally! And I agree with what you say! In fact, my interest in these other decks is because I'm interested in alternative takes.

MY original interest in the tarot was not actually LOO material, but the forums on Subliminal shop. The head of Indigo Mind LAbs, Shannon Matteson also has a book about understanding the tarot I was interested in. He initially set out to DISPROVE the tarot but found it worked. Created an advanced computer program to make tarot predictions with more precision. Got uncomfortable with charging people for readings and found they all just heard what they wanted to. Still, this guy strikes me as kind of an unknowing wizard (and actually makes a good case study for investigating the Mage archetype, it seems to me) and if he with his scientific mind found evidence of tarot working through objective study, that peaked my interests. Then I find out about the LOO, but at first, I just give a glance at the pictures of the cards without reading more. I start watching tarot things on YT that predict my month and they are all SURPRISINGLY consistent and resonated quite hard! Then I cross watched and found FURTHER consistency! Then I got obsessed, started reading about the different tarots, etc. etc.

Then I read what Ra had to say. Then I read that post on this forum about it: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...arot+cards

Now I'm investigating the first 3 cards: The fool, the mage and the high priestess. And what are the 3 chakra blocks I have? The lower 3! Still, I don't see the fool as quite being red chakra. I dunno about the fool. The fool, to me, is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end. We have to be foolish to endeavor to do something new, yet that is what must be done each time we close one chapter and begin anew, coming full circle infinitely in our explorations of order(and/or unity) into chaos, back into order, etc... This is how infinity manifests itself. So the fool makes sense as the alpha and the omega, at least to me.

The mage is like a scientist, investigating the properties of the mind. If you are a fool, after all, it would be prudent to start examining so as to progress from there. So I use my guitar as an example: I'k foolish enough to begin to do it, despite the fact that I don't know ANYTHING. And so how do I progress from being a fool at guitar? I test things out. Experiment. This is doing. This is analyzing. This is a masculine, left brained energy. Hence, the mage is portrayed as male, asserting yang energy, as the fool does insisting on action before thought. Since he is investigating the properties and structures of the reality reflected back to him by his own mind (the matrix of the mind) he is examining the reality around himself, which is a kind of presence focus. Kinda like experiencing yourself in the physical world (I.E. red chakra energy)


The High priestess is feminine because once the mage examines the properties of the realities reflected back to him by his own mind, he becomes aware of how his preferences affect the properties, thus, like moving from red chakra focus to orange, he delves in deep with yin energy into the self to discover his preferences. More yin energy as women have very much affected the properties of physical evolution through their selectiveness. This is the investigation of ones filtering of reality experiences through the (is distortion the proper word?) of one's preference.

These are some ideas I'm exploring and I just now realize that as I type them out, they become more refined and I'm actually quite surprised by what I laid down there, as it's more to say on the subject matter than I thought I'd already have :O

Anyway, I hope that gives you some interesting ideas, even though as Ra said, the cards are best investigated subjectively. You my still take what resonates to refine your subjective investigations hehe. So I hope it helped Smile
(08-14-2018, 08:21 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]this is quite an interesting (short) answer from Ra on the minor arcana.


Quote:88.22 Questioner: Were the Court Arcana and the Minor Arcana a portion of Ra’s teachings or was this something that came along later?

Ra: I am Ra.

Those cards of which you speak were the product of the influence of those of Chaldea and Sumer.

I am less interested (actually - not at all) in these cards for Divination, and much more in terms of them representing crystallized aspects of the human psyche.

In the minor arcana, we have 4 'sets':

Cups - the water element
Discs - the earth element
Swords - the air element
Wands - the fire element

And there are 10 cards in each (1-10), plus the King, Queen, Prince, and Princess cards (the court cards).

These formed the basis for the modern card deck used for games and gambling (blackjack, poker, old maid, etc).

Anyone utilised these for self development purposes?

Development purposes, possibly, not sure. I use them as a tool for understanding, the cards speak, a snapshot of a situation, the emotions or energies surrounding an experience.
(08-14-2018, 09:25 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]the Tree of Life really does provide a connective tissue, doesn't it?

I've never been drawn to study it myself, though.  The actual structure of it doesn't appeal to me in any way (the 3 Pillars etc).  But props to people who can utilise it.  Ra validates it as a perfectly equal system to utilise for the inner journey.

is there a set of minor arcana (a deck) that you find particularly appealing, on a personal level?

For a starting point, I'm just using the Ryder-Waite deck and Thoth as two distinct takes on it.

The Ryder-Waite is truly evocative and classic.  

For eg, this simple depiction of the Ace of Wands just carries an elegant and penetrative message.

[Image: 2qNscwA.jpg]

like - unambiguous!

Right now my favorite deck is the Rider-Waite deck! It’s a classic for sure and personally I love the medieval imagery. It’s easier to understand the imagery and symbolism. The only problem is that Justice and Strength are switched in this deck, so that the creators could keep to their oath of secrecy. Those two cards are not mixed up in the Thoth deck though. Crowley’s symbolism can be puzzling.

For studying the archetypes as given by Ra, the Church of Light deck I like the best.

I drew a card very similar to that one the other day! The four of cups. A hand holding a cup in midair in front of a guy while he is sitting and contemplating. An opportunity was presented.
One point about the Waite-Smith deck (I prefer to credit the artist rather than the publisher Wink ) is that it was the first deck to popularize fully illustrated minor arcana cards. Most previous decks just showed designs with the appropriate number of symbols, like a modern deck of playing cards. For example here is the suit of coins (discs) from the Tarot de Marseilles which was popular among occultists prior to decks like the Waite-Smith:

[Image: Yi73Gem.jpg]

I think having the illustrated minors, while nice, can be a bit misleading. The imagery is designed to help with divination and can tend to impose meaning onto the cards. As you said Plenum, you're not interested in using the minors for divinations so the illustrations aren't really helpful in that case.

I actually like the minors from the Thoth tarot though there are similar issues. The illustrations themselves are minimal and make reference to qabbalistic and geomantic symbolism, which I actually quite like, but each one will will also have a name which can once again be leading (i.e. the 5 of swords is called Defeat). At the same time there is a lot of thought that goes into the qabbalistic and numerological meanings of these cards (5 of Swords would be related to the concept of Intellect in relation to the 5th sephira Geburah, the stability of Chesed, 4,  is disrupted causing an intellectual crisis which precipitates the need for a readjustment and movement into a more harmonious state, 6/Tiphareth). So there is some value there for people who are into those systems of symbolism and etc.

Lately I've been moving back towards the Tarot of Marseilles style decks because they are more open to interpretation. Rather than feeding you symbolism you are free to use your own. There's a story about how Alejandro Jodorowsky (Who I respect quite a lot) had a huge collection of tarot decks and he showed the thoth deck to surrealist artist Andre Breton hoping to impress him and Breton dismissed it saying that most tarot decks are too overloaded with symbolism and only the Tarot de Marseilles was worth studying at which point Jodorowsky got rid of his whole collection of tarot decks.
There are secret titles to the Minor Arcana cards, I think Crowley utilizes them on the Thoth deck. Dion Fortune names them all in her “Mystical Qabalah”. For example, 8 of Pentacles is titled “Lord of Prudence”, Hod (8) in Assiah (Earth). I don’t think the secret titles are misleading; I find them quite helpful.

The titles help convey the forces manifesting upon the different levels and we also get a clue to the nature of those elements and influences.

Quote:The concept of inhibited reaction and satisfaction foregone is expressed in the title of the Eight of Cups of the Tarot pack, whose secret name is “Abandoned Success.” The suit of Cups, in the Tarot symbolism, is under the influence of Venus and represents the different aspects and influences of love. “Abandoned Success,” the inhibition of the instinctive reaction which would give satisfaction, in other words, ‘sublimation’ is key to the powers of Hod. But remember that sublimation is not the same thing as either repression or eradication, and it applies to the instinct of self-preservation as well as to the instinct of reproduction, with which it is exclusively associated in the popular mind.

The same concept reappears in the secret title of the Eight of Swords, which is “The Lord of Shortened Force.” We get a clear image in these words of th checking, or braking of dynamic power in order that it may be brought under control.

In the Eight of Pentacles, which represents the nature of Hod manifesting on the material plane, we have the Lord of Prudence - again a checking and inhibiting influence. But all these three negative cards are summed up under the presidency of th Eight of Wands, which represents the action of the Sphere of Hod on the spiritual plane, and this card is called the Lord of Swiftness.

We see, then, that is is through inhibitions and refrainings on the lower planes that the dynamic energy of the higher planes is rendered available. It is in the Sphere of Hod that the rational mind imposes these inhibitions on the dynamic animal nature of the soul; condensing them; formulating them; directing them by limiting them and preventing diffusion. ...

I used to not work with the Minor Arcana and only the Trumps. I didn’t have any basis for understanding the Minor Arcana. I’m the type of person who needs a solid philosophy behind a system. I don’t care for dogma, such as “this card is that. Means this and that.” I need to know why it means that. The Qabalah accomplishes this and I believe is the key to its unlocking.
That’s just me though! Others use the Tarot quite successfully without a Qabalistic key.

Also no other deck or philosophy has helped me penetrate understanding of the Major Arcana cards than the Ra Material and the Church of Light deck. I believe these images were actually given by Ra to the ancient Egyptian initiates. (I’ve heard they were/are on pyramid walls, but I can’t find evidence to support it. I think Madame Blavatsky mentions the archetypes found on pyramid walls.) There is a beautiful harmonious flow in each set of 7 for mind, body, and spirit. And the way it was given and left open was just perfect! Ra helped Don with the first 7 cards. We now understand Matrix, Potentiator, Catalyst, Experience, Significator, Transformation, and Great Way. The contact then ended, but Ra had given us a key and all that’s left is for us to finish the work. Like true initiates!
thanks for all the thoughts here.  It's been awesome to read over, and informed my pursuits over the last week or more.

Been examining things some more.

The Sword cards ... it's true what they say, isn't it?

Out of the 10 cards (1-10), only the Ace reflects a positive attribute.

All the other cards show some kind of strain or compromised situation.

That's ok though ... the mind undergoes various contortions quite naturally (the Sword suite representing the element of AIR, or the mind).
any thoughts on the 8 of Wands?

it seems a highly unusual one.

Normally accorded the name of 'Swiftness'.

The Ryder-Waite image has no anthropomorphisation.  No human element.  Not even a hand!  (like in the Ace cards).

[Image: 6ZO7QKW.jpg]

and the Thoth representation of this arcanum.

[Image: Ks0OK2fl.jpg]

all other cards in the Wands suite (1-10) in the Ryder-Waite have a human element to it.  This is almost purely symbolic
the 10 Wands

[Image: 3s0Thu6h.jpg]

[Image: JYVxHvol.jpg]
The swords always give me trouble Tongue I tend to draw the 9 when I'm suffering from stress-related insomnia. 4 and 6 of swords are alright though.

8 of wands is fire, the driving life force, passion, what-have-you, in the sephira of Hod, the sephira of logic and intellect. This energy enters into Hod energizing our mental functions and you get flashes of insight, your mind is moving at high speed coming up with ideas and solutions to problems etc and driving you to action. It's temporary though, not a sustainable level of mental excitation. On the positive side it represents a rush of mental energy which can be channeled into making positive changes, on the negative side that energy can be channeled recklessly or come up against barriers leading to frustration.

The thoth deck matches these concepts to astrology with Mercury in Sagittarius which I think reflects the same ideas.

the Waite deck doesn't have any humans in it but there is still symbolism, the wands flying through the clear blue sky, the wide river, the mountain with a castle on it. These all lend meaning to interpretation.
(08-24-2018, 10:11 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]The thoth deck matches these concepts to astrology with Mercury in Sagittarius which I think reflects the same ideas.

what do you think about the rainbow in that card?

I guess it means that 'Swiftness' is able to encompass the whole spectrum (which is 7 colors of the rainbow - but the full set is an octave of '8').

I guess the main image also goes in 8 directions (of the compass).  

So this card/experience is not limited in it's range.

But the geometry is pointing towards an octohedron (a d8 from dungeons & dragons)

(08-24-2018, 10:11 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]8 of wands is fire, the driving life force, passion, what-have-you, in the sephira of Hod, the sephira of logic and intellect. This energy enters into Hod energizing our mental functions and you get flashes of insight, your mind is moving at high speed coming up with ideas and solutions to problems etc and driving you to action. It's temporary though, not a sustainable level of mental excitation. On the positive side it represents a rush of mental energy which can be channeled into making positive changes, on the negative side that energy can be channeled recklessly or come up against barriers leading to frustration.

this is pretty frickin' awesome.

Approved Smile

(08-24-2018, 10:11 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]The swords always give me trouble Tongue I tend to draw the 9 when I'm suffering from stress-related insomnia. 4 and 6 of swords are alright though.

9 is lovely man.  Truly Tongue
(08-24-2018, 10:45 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-24-2018, 10:11 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]The thoth deck matches these concepts to astrology with Mercury in Sagittarius which I think reflects the same ideas.

what do you think about the rainbow in that card?

I guess it means that 'Swiftness' is able to encompass the whole spectrum (which is 7 colors of the rainbow - but the full set is an octave of '8').

I guess the main image also goes in 8 directions (of the compass).  

So this card/experience is not limited in it's range.

But the geometry is pointing towards an octohedron (a d8 from dungeons & dragons)

According to Crowley the rainbow is another symbol related to Sagittarius. The hebrew name for Sag is קשת, which means rainbow. The rainbow is also present in the Art (Temperence/The Alchemist) in the Thoth deck, which is also associated with Sagittarius. The bottom 3 paths of the tree of life, the ones leading from Malkuth, are represented by ת (the Universe) ש (the Aeon/Judgement) and ק (the Moon) which spell out קשת, Rainbow. Saggitarius (the Art) is the path that transcends the lower paths leading from Yesod to Tiphareth. The rainbow is the bow that propels the arrow onward.

I think that the reasoning for the electric rays on this card is related to the idea of the fire being sublimated into rays of energy and and light (this is the only card in the suit that doesn't portray flames). On the micro level this includes concepts like brainwaves and speech, on the macro scale it includes light, electricity, etc. The rays are seen creating and sustaining the geometric shapes representing the energetic basis of matter.

So in essence yeah, the card deals with limitless and full spectrum energies.
What about the court cards? I find these ones fascinating. In the Book of Thoth, Crowley says that these often represent actual people. They also follow the formula of Tetragrammaton: Yod Heh Vav Heh; Father, Mother, Son, Daughter; Fire, Water, Air, Earth.

Quote:These cards constitute a pictorial analysis of the powers of the four letters of the Name and the four Elements. They are also referred to the Zodiac; but instead of assigning the three decans of each sign to one card, the influence begins with th last decan of one sign to the second decan of the next. There is a further difficulty. It might well be expected that the elemental attribution would harmonize with the Zodiacal attribution; but it is not so. ...
The convenience of these arrangements is that these cards are suitable as being descriptive, in a rough and empirical fashion, of divers types of men and women. One may say briefly that any of these cards is a picture of the person whose Sun, or whose rising sign at his nativity, falls within the Zodiacal attribution of the card. This, a person born on 12th October might possess many of the qualities of the Queen of Swords; while, if he were born shortly after midnight, he would add many of the characteristics of the Prince of Wands.

All but the princesses have Zodiacal attributions, but the princesses seem to represent four types of “elemental” people. She rules the quadrants around the North Pole.

Anyway, it’s very interesting how accurate the cards are for representing actual people. I am a Pisces rising (26 degrees) and a Virgo Sun (22 degrees): Queen of Wands, Queen of Swords. I use the sidereal placements, not the Western tropical. It’s just more accurate imo. So the queen of Wands is the watery part of fire and the queen of Swords is the watery part of air.

What do you guys think about the court cards? I think the Thoth cards do a better job at symbolic representation of the court cards.
I haven't looked at them much Nau7ik.

I've just been feverishly working my way through the 1-10 cards.

And have a rough basis for the 40 vibrations involved.  So neat to have that as part of my 'mental furniture' now.  The time was just right to delve in Smile

What you shared was pretty interesting.

It seems as though the Ryder-Waite and Thoth decks really diverge when it comes to the Court cards.

/ /

(08-25-2018, 08:50 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]All but the princesses have Zodiacal attributions, but the princesses seem to represent four types of “elemental” people. She rules the quadrants around the North Pole.

just having a quick look at the Princesses (from the Thoth deck), the Princess of Cups and Princess of Discs are super empowering.

Someone will have to explain to me what's going on in the Princess of Wands lol.
(08-25-2018, 08:50 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]What do you guys think about the court cards? I think the Thoth cards do a better job at symbolic representation of the court cards.

I think there's something to that.  The Ryder-Waite depiction of the Court Cards just seems very bland and vanilla.  Like nothing separates one Suite from another (except for the suite itself).  There's no depiction of dynamics - in other words.  

So it's more like a raw placeholder.
Quote:And have a rough basis for the 40 vibrations involved. So neat to have that as part of my 'mental furniture' now. The time was just right to delve in Smile

That’s exactly what I want to achieve! To know each of the cards. This reminds me of something I read the other day:

Quote:But it is of little use to go into a shop and buy a pack of Tarot cards unless there is the knowledge necessary to build up the astral correspondences to each card. This takes times, as there are seventy-two cards to work with. Once it is done, however, the operator can take the cards into his hands with a considerable degree of confidence that his subconscious mind, whatever that may be, will all unwittingly deal the cards that refer to the matter in question. Exactly how the shuffle and deal is affected we do not know, but one thing is certain, when the Great Angel of the Tarot has been contacted, the cards are remarkably revealing.
-Dion Fortune

The Rider-Waite court cards do seem rather bland, and the Thoth court cards alive and vibrant. It’s almost the reverse with the minor arcana cards! The Thoth deck I can hardly understand the symbolism for the minor cards, but the Rider-Waite cards have character and depth. Im going to stick with the Rider Waite deck for now though, but I think both of these decks are excellent for learning.
What can anyone say about the Aces? These four cards in particular are puzzling to me. Crowley says the Aces form the bridge between the Princesses of the Court Cards to the Minor cards. That still doesn’t make much sense to me.

It’s said the aces are the roots of the powers of the elements. Aces also correspond to Kether.

How do you guys interpret these cards?
(08-26-2018, 08:54 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]That’s exactly what I want to achieve! To know each of the cards.

well - I don't want to over-estimate things Smile

All I've done is make a start - and have a window into 40 cards.  But it's proven quite valuable in my Balancing Process already - as it's crystallized certain concepts/functions.

For eg, I found the 7 of Discs extremely potent in digging through some solar plexus distortions.  It actually represented the positive aspects - and in doing so - it highlighted the areas in the psyche which were imbalanced (relative to that positive point).

So I'm super-pumped to have gone through this rapid learning process the last few weeks.

/ /

I also have to give a shout-out to one of the 'guidebooks' I was using through this process.  It's called the 'Modern Tarot' by Michelle Tea.  I couldn't believe that it was only $2 on kindle.  It's easily worth a full price.

Definitely not one of those dumpster sale books.  She's a professional writer (and artist), and I only have mad respect for her.  Unlike a lot of esoteric writers, she feels real down to earth, and has that real Aquarian gift of ideas and the light touch.  Her anecdotes are really personal and relatable.
(08-26-2018, 09:10 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]What can anyone say about the Aces? These four cards in particular are puzzling to me. Crowley says the Aces form the bridge between the Princesses of the Court Cards to the Minor cards. That still doesn’t make much sense to me.

It’s said the aces are the roots of the powers of the elements. Aces also correspond to Kether.

How do you guys interpret these cards?

definitely a great question!

I can only share a neophyte opinion.

To me, I think there's great significance that they are called 'Aces' and not just the 'Ones'.

And also in the modern playing deck, they 'trump' every other card (in the suite) even though they should be the lowest numbered ('1').

So in some way, I think the Ace points to the Primal Aspect of the Suite.

Like it's simulteanously the matrix and the potentiator of the Elemental Suite.

Not saying that there's a direct connection to the major arcana (because I don't think there is), but in terms of what the Ace represents, it's like both.

It feels more like the Matrix+Potentiator because all the other cards in that suite roll out of the Ace.  Like they are birthed, crystallised concepts from the Ace.  It feels less like a 'Great Way' function, because that is more like the over-riding dynamic.  Possibly that kind of 'over-arching' composition could be assigned to one of the Court Cards (King?)

/ /

Anyway, don't want to go overboard with the analogies ... because you can start seeing things that aren't really there.  But when one is learning a new system, it's extremely helpful to draw upon the dynamics that one has utilised before, and see where there are possible correspondences.

The Creation has a fractal nature, no? And so a base set of principles is recycled over and over, in different kinds of structures and architectures.

side note: want to connect more deeply to one's feelings and intuition?  Ace of Cups is a potent place to start BigSmile
Would ace just stick with unity then, evidently ? So unity of four elements for the four aces ? I find you all so educated on those cards, it fries my small brain.
@Plenum, you’re right though! The Aces correspond to Kether, which all the subsequent Sephiroth / suit cards have flown forth from. Kether would be Unity, in my understanding, yes @flofrog.

I found a passage in the Book of Thoth regarding the four Aces:

Quote:The Aces represent the roots of the four elements. They are quite above, and distinct from, the other small cards in the same way as Kether is said to be symbolized only by the topmost point of the Yod of Tetragrammaton. In these cards is no real manifestation of the element in its material form. They form a link between the small cards and the Princesses, who rule the Heavens around the North Pole. The Meridian is the Great Pyramid, and the Elements rule, going Eastward, in the order of Tetragrammaton, Fire, Water, Air, Earth. Thus, roughly, Aces-Princesses Wands cover Asia, Cups the Pacific Ocean, Swords the Americas, Disks Europe and Africa. To make the relationship clear, one may go a little into the symbol of the pentagram, or Shield of David. It represents Spirit ruling the four elements, and is thus a symbol of the Triumph of Man.

The idea of the element of Spirit is very difficult to grasp. The letter Shin, which is the letter of Fire, has to do double duty by representing Spirit as well. Generally speaking, the attributions of Spirit are not clear and simple like those of the other elements. It is very remarkable that the Tablet of Spirit in the Enochian system is the key to all mischief; as, in the Hindu system, Akasha is the Egg of Darkness.

On the other hand, Spirit represents Kether. Perhaps it was never in the mind of the Exempt Adept or Adepts who invented the Tarot to go so far into this matter. The point to remember is that, both in their appearance and in their meaning, the Aces are not the elements themselves, but the seeds of those elements.

When Crowley considers the Enochian Tablet of Spirit and Akasha, it reminds me of the Matrix of Spirit as described by Ra: the Devil. It being seemingly “evil”. Which is another observation that @Plenum made about the Aces!: The matrix and potentiator (the Lightning struck Tower.) That’s very interesting!

You inspire me Plenum! I am going to meditate on the Aces (and other cards of course) and look for some new books.
Thank you Nau7ik, I know nothing about the Kabbalah so Kether is new to me.. but at a time was a bit into Sanskrit so as you know for sure Akasha is supposed to be the fifth element but unseen so diverse schools in Hinduism wouldn’t recognize it, and keep to the four elements, so i guess the fifth ace is invisible.. Wink

Akasha is space all pervading, so the Akashic records is our virtual library I guess, seen from our limited 3D, BigSmile
In connecting the tarot to the tree of life, The Aces represent each element in a state of total potentiality, the element is then refined through each card in the suit (representing the sephiroth) until it reaches it's conclusion in the 10, Malkuth. It is interesting that there are no cards representing Spirit, but I maybe that's intentional.

The court cards are also linked to specific sephira, The Kings (Or Knights in the Thoth Deck) are associated with Chokmah (Wisdom, the highest "masculine" aspect) The Queens are associated with Binah (Understanding, the highest "feminine" aspect), the Knights (Or Princes in the Thoth deck, confusing I know) are associated with Tiphareth (Glory, the holy child, ideal reality) and the Pages (Princesses) are associated with Malkuth (The Kingdom, physical reality). The Knight and Queen give birth to the Prince, who courts the Princess fertilizing her to bring forth manifestation in reality. The court cards have further elemental attributions, Knights are related to fire, Queens to water, Princes to air, and Princesses to earth.

So the Princess of wands for example would be the earth aspects of the element of fire, the fuel for combustion. Fuel + heat in the presence of air (the Princes) creates an irresistible chemical reaction producing flame. This formula can also be applied to the things which are symbolized by the element of fire.
I have a question about some of the symbolism of the Thoth deck. In particular, the suit of Swords.
In all of the Swords cards there is geometrical pattern in the background. What is it? What does it mean? Why is it related to Swords (elemental air, intellect/mind)?

[Image: 6_of_Swords_Thoth_ocxhtr.jpg][Image: 4_of_Swords_Thoth_mrjhob.jpg][Image: 9_of_Swords_Thoth_rtw6in.jpg]
Yeah that's something I've wondered about as well, I see them as symbolizing thought patterns. Like in cards such as the 6 the patterns forms a more orderly and symmetrical shape, whereas the the 9 you can see the shapes becoming more chaotic and disorganized.
This doesn't answer the general question but this is what Michelle Tea offers on the Science card (6 of Swords).

- - - In the Thoth deck, the artists named this card Science and illustrated it with a fencing map that pinpoints where a fencer might stand to be invulnerable. This is a card about applying the powers of the intellect to protect yourself and get yourself out of a bad situation. It is probably not an overnight solution. The hardship feels large, like one you’ve been in for a while. - - -

Which also got me thinking. Maybe if the different kinds of swords were identified, or would be helpful for analysis as well.

Like a cutless (used by sailors), scimitar, broadsword.

The 8 of swords - in particular - features a range of blades.
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