My question is regarding the distortion of free will. Ive been thinking lately about the nature of influence and how it appears to me that our actions, thoughts, and desires are all stemming from where we find ourselves in a given moment along with the influence of how we perceived, lived, and experienced our previous moments. I dont see where WILL can be truly FREE of influence and it appears to me we are living the experiences of choice and of free will as as a distortion and not as truth of actually making choices. I am grateful that my influences have led me to a place of experiencing choosing loving, appreciating, balancing, etc etc but I dont see how one who is influenced in another direction can be expected to live the same choice or experience. Can we really lighten the planetary vibration beyond what is influenced to be? or are we simply living the current complexity of all that is, which, in this place and time, happens to be living the experience of lightening the planetary vibrations and balancing of the energy centers within what we call ourself. Id love to believe in Free will and often find myself deeply within the illusion but another part of me cannot shake this view that we, as infintie energy unified, were the creator; and are the experiencer. So my question may simply be, where does Will, Free of influence, originate from within the experiences of a self?
Ive come to a place where all is equal and all is beautiful and this material has helped greatly in my path of seeking. The differential and polarity of all that is, within my current understanding, is what directly supports and defines our experiences of desire, appreciation, fear, lack, and many other experiences that drive us to continue living this experience together. I sense that if we were truly Free in our Will then this would indicate an ending of the creation and not a continuation of it. There must always be greater than, and less than in my view for experience as we know it to be to continue. This indicates to me Free Will as an experience and not as an absolute truth of who we are and what we may accomplish.
I use this analogy. If a planet in its orbit becomes aware of its potential to express thought and realizes in any given moment it could stop in its orbit and reverse orbital path, but chooses through its understanding of free will to maintain its forward motion, it would in this instance have the experiences of contemplation, choice, and free will as associated experiences of complex forward motion through space and time. I sense that the seeing of other possibilities as we walk about our days, along with the choosing of what we only could have chosen based on personal and collective influence as being the true nature of the distortion of free will. Id love to hear what you have to offer to this idea. Namaste.
Diamond Light/Love.
Infinite Energy
Experiencing
All That Is
In Unity
we can all agree 2 hydrogen atoms when fused together create a helium atomic structure, and never have we witnessed or experienced 26 hydrogen atoms spontaniously merging into Iron. This indicates to me influenced based expansion and predeterminsm. Where you are now is influenced from something prior, how you respond is also influenced, this holds true all the way back to the first 2 hyrdogen atoms fusing into helium.
Today we find ourselves incredible complex in our configuration and experiences, and I sense that experiences such as past lives, higher self, and multi dimensionality are all just extensions of the complexity of mind at this place and time.
Id love some insight and new perspective on this and I know it will be provided here. Namaste.
predeterminism in that, everything has happened. because there is infinity, everything needs to have happened, at point infinity.
predeterminism in that, the amount of infinite possibilities, realities, occurrences that happen in infinity, have their certain occurrences/nature. ie, you may decide to take an action, make a choice, and therefore change your future. but in the end, what would happen would be you changing the path you, as a focus point, travel, in a different path of unfolding events, hence, a reality. the reality which you just left with your choice, will still keep existing.
predeterminism and limitation of free will in that, the choices you can make and the different realities/fate paths you can hop into are limited by your suitability to that path. simply, you cannot shoulder the weight of a planet as an entity in the current reality you are in, your point in the reality framework does not allow it. therefore, you cannot decide to shoulder the weight of a planet, and start doing that in this reality. the realities that you can immediately hop into, do not include that one. this is an extreme example, but it shows the concept well. the main concept can be applied to any decision, like, marrying a certain person, or another. or, drinking a glass of water in 3 sippings, or 5 sippings. all of these change reality.
basically free will, freedom is limited by the framework of reality you are in. you cannot hop into a fundamentally different reality, without being able to fit into that reality.
The Law of Free Will is also called the Law of Confusion by Ra.
I repeat. Free Will = Confusion.
To me this is an elegant and widely overlooked point about how we as individual portions of existence function, regardless of what level of consciousness we are in. The Infinite Creator exists because of this law of free will/confusion...indeed this law is what supports the existence of even the concept of an infinite creator to exist, being that it is the very first distortion of the Law of One. Any and all consciousness/awareness that exists, regardless of it's depth and freedom that it's perspective allows, will always be confused about some aspect of creation, or some aspect of infinity.
Why do you think the Infinite Creator is infinitely curious about infinity, as Ra states?
(10-01-2010, 12:43 AM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]The Law of Free Will is also called the Law of Confusion by Ra.
I repeat. Free Will = Confusion.
To me this is an elegant and widely overlooked point about how we as individual portions of existence function, regardless of what level of consciousness we are in. The Infinite Creator exists because of this law of free will/confusion...indeed this law is what supports the existence of even the concept of an infinite creator to exist, being that it is the very first distortion of the Law of One. Any and all consciousness/awareness that exists, regardless of it's depth and freedom that it's perspective allows, will always be confused about some aspect of creation, or some aspect of infinity.
Why do you think the Infinite Creator is infinitely curious about infinity, as Ra states?
Interesting ideas to ponder, Turtle!
Interesting topic, Matt. Thank you for bringing it up with a very thoughtful approach.
Here is my own perception of what Ra says on this topic.
The conditioned, reactive mind lacks free will.
The physical structure of the body simply responds mechanically, chemically, electromagnetically, and instinctively, to environmental stimuli.
The emotions document the mental concepts as these concepts are bodily expressed via the mechanisms of the subconscious.
In these ways a human being lacks free will. These are all experiences we have in common with animals, including those with a pack or hive mentality.
Important question: Is there something more to a human being than these components?
According to Ra, there is. There is a totality of a mind/body/spirit complex. This complex includes a capacity to process rays of light. Each ray is and/or represents some quality of being. And here is the key point: we can use our own free will to increase or decrease our openness to these rays, and to balance or imbalance our experience of them.
According to Ra, not just recognizable crises, but every moment of life, presents a challenge for us to make a choice based on faith. Faith is our own free will choice of what to believe, when we have gone off the end of all that conditioning, logic, and factual evidence can prove. Faith is what we choose to be certain enough about to take action - including the choice of refusing to act.
In every moment, we can have faith that a positive path with bring us a meaningful, blessed life. We can use our free will to choose that if we take the risk of doing something unknown, unconditioned, and unprovable, that we will have a more evolved life.
Namely, choosing to open and balance our life experience by accepting and loving each experience, finding and harmonizing its opposite within ourselves, going forth with rejoicing in the One Creator. In so doing, we polarize to the positive service to others path, based on a model of holistic blending of ourselves with all life.
We can also use our free will to make a different type of choice that is EQUALLY unknown, unconditioned, and unprovable. Namely, choosing to close, restrict and unbalance our life experience by closing to certain rays, hating or rejecting people or situations, going forth enforcing our separation from the One Creator as expressed in an opposition based, control/conquer/dominance based model of relationships.
Either positive or negative faith is something we only have because we choose to create it within us, by an act of our free will.
If we make either Choice, we really do exercise free will. Unconstrained, uncoerced, unconditioned. More than mere stimulus-response or action-reaction. Either Choice can polarize us enough for further spiritual evolution, having learned to make a genuine Choice.
Abdication of the Choice puts us back into the sinkhole of indifference, where the physical factors I started with are joined by innumerable hooks, manipulations, lucky breaks for good or bad, of the recruiting efforts on each side.
Now to step aside from my interpretation of the Law of One material, into an area I don't think is discussed by Ra or Q'uo. As for free will of planets, there is other channeled material that personally feels to me to be resonant with the Law of One.
This other material says that Gaia has indeed made her own moral choice to experience an awesome depth of suffering and pain, as a gift to nurture those of us who live upon her.
This material also says that she accepted this pain in order to help humanity better Choose before the deadline of Harvest, by humanity hurting ourselves and hurting our Mother Earth.
And the material says that she is leading the way in humanity's ascension beyond the pains of duality.
Just because this material feels resonant to me, of course does not prove anything about whether it's right, or useful to you. Please use your own judgment.
I will ask this in response to what has been posted so far.
Can we truly, even by accidental use of our developing free will understandings, create an environment where all growth stops? I just dont see how we are so free as to create such a reality. It really feels to me as though the differential within all that is, and the polarities as being necessary long before free will and making choices as experiences can manifest into a individualized expression of self.
I like the idea above of choosing the alignment of ones energy centers and changing the perception of reality as a concept that feels good, but even a change of perception in one of us is catalyst for anothers growth, so the interconnectedness remains and the reliance on eachothers influence remains. One may only balance chakras if they have been taught, or influenced in some other direction towards this experience. For one who never had this influence I dont see how they could have this experience. Thank you for the responses but as of now I still see the experience of free will within the examples given as being experiences within the construct and not a true freedom as a creator from within it.
I do believe we are the creator, and we are also the experiencer. Choosing comes in the experiences of creator, while here and now in the construct I believe we have given to ourselves the most believable and enjoyable constructed experience possible, and at some time long into our dance together will come back to this place of creating.
anything you can think of, is possible.
however, if you think about any 'reality furball', ie, a collective reality that is created with the participation of a part of intelligent infinity (ie, all the existing entities, energies, sentience, and individual units in this universe), for any kind of state to happen, it would happen with the majority consent (however much is enough to provide for that state) would need to happen.
in short, all our consciousnesses are tied together, and any collective state in this universe (or any local state) would happen only by consent of the majority (whatever amount is enough for it to happen).
the laws that govern this universe, creating its discrete nature and organized hierarchy, are also a factor. the local logos that creates this universe, which all the existing things in this universe are a part of (and together constitute the logos), have determined common natural laws to make this universe organized and discrete, so that comparison, perception, evolution can happen in an organized fashion, along with the possibility of multiple individual existences. however this is also a collective (and probably) majority consensus. there may be other universes, even other existences, quite different from any kind of basic law governing this universe or existence.
thank you for that reminder.
you know, its been almost a year since I did my last study of the Law of One and Im sure that another study within my newly developed perspectives will be well worth my effort and will lead to even more complete, balanced understandings. This will be done through the material itself but also through the reading of the posts here throughout the site.
While writing this reply I thought about book 5 and the archetypical tarot teachings, I remember Ra saying somewhere that they are designed to develop the faculties of will and faith which has me more open to and excited about developing a more conscious ability to fully potentialize my faculties of will and faith.
This is a beautiful collective of people on Bring4th
(10-01-2010, 08:42 PM)mattschryer Wrote: [ -> ]you know, its been almost a year since I did my last study of the Law of One and Im sure that another study within my newly developed perspectives will be well worth my effort and will lead to even more complete, balanced understandings. This will be done through the material itself but also through the reading of the posts here throughout the site.
I've certainly found that to be very true for me as well.
Hello Everyone!
Ive come back to this page after some time away through a synchronicity of searching for 'Law of One distortions' into a search engine and having this appear as the 2nd option of exploration. In the past few days Ive experienced a flow of some new ideas which I would like to share with all of you. But to begin I would like to ask Turtle which session Ra makes this statement "Why do you think the Infinite Creator is infinitely curious about infinity, as Ra states?" as I cannot find it within the materials or searches on .info and would like to see the specific words as spoken by Ra if possible. I ask for this clarification so I can understand whether the creator is functioning within the same parameters of confusion as we, or if there's actual free will within its own experiencing of itself and of all that it. Basically I'm curious to know if the creator is destined to be infinitely curious about infinity, or if the creator choose this exploration freely.
Now, here are the things that have come forth in the last week or so as I found myself delving into the subject with a new friend.
Our desire through the writing and sharing of this blog is to bring sense, meaning, and purpose to the complexities of "determinism" and to determine what free will is, and to what extent it is involved in our experiences. Our conclusion thus far is that everything is "determined" and progressing in total unity through the influence of each previous moment, and that there is no actual free will outside of our experience/perception of it.
Is it possible that our experience of free will is within ourselves as observer?, or experiencer?, because man does not know the outcome of any of his choices along with having known other possibilities of what could have been, therefore causing a perception of "randomness" in which the experiencer has the liberty to make choices. Not the freedom to will any choice, but rather the experience of making choices given the confusion within the perception upon any particular moment.
I had written something here about polarity and differential, but given the time that passed between when I first made the post and now, I've decided to delete it because the idea wasn't expressed as well as I could have expressed it. Besides, there's probably a better place for the idea somewhere else in the forums. Basically I was intending to link the idea of polarity to the idea of free will and to show how polarity is intimately connected to the idea of free will, both as a foundation for the mechanism for choice, ie always being aware of the opposite of what is, was, or could be, along with how the idea of differential supports the maintenance of individuality within experiences of free will.
Evidence appears to support the idea that our universe is intelligently designed and therefore I find it reasonable to believe that all experience is leading towards an intelligent destination, regardless of the apparent value within the experience of any expression of self. What you may call the Creator, God, or any other perceived Source from which all that is emerged, is that which is Glorified through all experience, positive or negative. In truth, it is God/Creator/Source that is working through us, and not us in and of ourselves doing that working, thus all may be forgiven, understood, appreciated, and loved as if it were an aspect of God himself, regardless of what the ego may feel about the catalyst being experienced. This is now touching on the idea of the inherent equality within unity, which is another topic on its own, but which also ties in to the ideas of free will and polarity.
I definitely agree with those who say the vantage point is everything in the free will/determinism debate.
One of the corollaries of the Law of One philosophy is that identity is not a discrete phenomenon (at least not in 3rd density) but a continuum. In other words, the entity you think you are - a body, a MBS complex, a race, a brand, a nation, a planet, the entire universe - determines whether or not "you" can be said to have free will.
Where you locate the self determines the scope of your agency. As a biological entity, no, everything is a deterministic interaction of molecules. But as a spiritual entity who makes moral choices, yes, I'd say there is free will, because at that level you are experiencing the effects of your choices and significating them. At the level of complete unified totality with Creation, I have no idea whether the idea of free will even makes sense.
I think the guy who pointed out the utility of "confusion" hit the nail on the head. To the extent you don't understand something, it seems like a system where your choices really matter because the observer/observed dichotomy is at play. The more you understand a system, the more likely you are to see yourself as a part of it, and the less need you have to maintain an independent stance. It is our state of confusion that allows us to have the kind of lives that make the free will illusion worthwhile.
There are limitations to our free will. For instance we can't fly, or manifest something out of thin air. Though I do hear stories about some who are able, I've never seen this. So our free will is limited to the boundaries of our abilities. It makes me wonder how else our free will is limited. I can't exactly walk the Universe with unfettered tread.
(04-15-2011, 08:22 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]There are limitations to our free will. For instance we can't fly, or manifest something out of thin air. Though I do hear stories about some who are able, I've never seen this. So our free will is limited to the boundaries of our abilities. It makes me wonder how else our free will is limited. I can't exactly walk the Universe with unfettered tread.
Excuse me for jumping in. We did manifest an ability to fly. We do manifest new compounds out of existing ones, and thin air could be considered an element.
Our free will is creating, only we sometimes imagine the process differently than what it actually is.
(09-30-2010, 04:54 PM)mattschryer Wrote: [ -> ]Id love to hear what you have to offer to this idea.
I think the question you raised is similar to the one Don raised in the following LOO exchange. The answer of Ra is interesting, especially the final part -
Quote:54.17 Questioner: I would like then to trace the evolution of catalyst upon the mind/body/spirit complexes and how it comes into use and is fully used to create this tuning. I assume that the sub-Logos that formed our tiny part of the creation using the intelligence of the Logos of which it is a part, provides the base catalyst that will act upon mind/body complexes and mind/body/spirit complexes before they have reached a state of development where they can begin to program their own catalyst. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. The sub-Logos offers the catalyst at the lower levels of energy, the first triad; these have to do with the survival of the physical complex. The higher centers gain catalyst from the biases of the mind/body/spirit complex itself in response to all random and directed experiences.
Thus the less developed entity will perceive the catalyst about it in terms of survival of the physical complex with the distortions which are preferred. The more conscious entity being conscious of the catalytic process will begin to transform the catalyst offered by the sub-Logos into catalyst which may act upon the higher energy nexi. Thus the sub-Logos can offer only a basic skeleton, shall we say, of catalyst. The muscles and flesh having to do with the, shall we say, survival of wisdom, love, compassion, and service are brought about by the action of the mind/body/spirit complex on basic catalyst so as to create a more complex catalyst which may in turn be used to form distortions within these higher energy centers.
The more advanced the entity, the more tenuous the connection between the sub-Logos and the perceived catalyst until, finally, all catalyst is chosen, generated, and manufactured by the self, for the self.
Thank you, and because I'm re-reading and editing old posts I'd made years ago I'll say that my reply to this is actually two posts down.
Ra has said that only the present moment exists. I think the nature of awareness and its relationship to the idea of the present moment is helpful to contemplate. I'm tired..this is all I feel like contributing at the moment lol.
Basically, past the edge of infinity nothing exists, or rather, is experienced, until awareness reaches that point in its exploration of infinity. As this happens, moments are accumulated and experienced. Awareness is simply the movement through intelligent infinity, moment by moment going where it may go. In this way, there absolutely is free will.
I now believe I understand what Ra was meaning when this statement was made
"The more advanced the entity, the more tenuous the connection between the sub-Logos and the perceived catalyst until, finally, all catalyst is chosen, generated, and manufactured by the self, for the self."
I believe this supports total determinism and is a reference to the nature of the experiences of any given self who finds themselves on that particular path; in so far that any self on this path will experience, within themselves, the apparancy of total control over the generation of the catalyst as it appears in their experiences within themselves. When we view the totality perspective, we can see that the choices one makes, whether they be generated through intent (catalyst generated within the self) or reaction (catalyst generated beyond of the self), polarity is always maintained, and free will experienced equally along either path. It seems to me that some will have this experience of total generation of catalyst and others will not, each becoming only that which they could have been for all that is to be all that is, balanced and perfect in its knowing of itself.
It seems to me we are saying that from within the self there is absolute free will, choice, and associated responsibility; but that through the perspective of the creator all is determined and all exists currently and concurrently.
to be the experience of the distortion of free will is magnificent! The illusions within the self are remarkable. We are blessed! ... every M/B/S in existence!
sidenote, I was making a post into a facebook group and recognized that 100/7 is 14.2857143 and 100/6 is 16.6666666_. Ra speaks to violet ray being unmovable and our ability to create changes within energy centers fall completely within the lower 6 rays. An STO entity that balances its lower 6 rays to be expressed at 14.2857 percent of the whole will leave an available space of 14.2857 percent for violet ray which brings the total expression of light to be such that if it were passed back through a prism the light emerging would be white light as it was before it was spread into the known spectrum. We can see how easily the balance can be distorted when we look at an example such as having 15% activation of the whole within the first 6 rays leaving just 10% for the violet ray, causing distorted white light to emerge on the other side of the proverbial prism. On the STS path with the green ray deactivated, one has just 5 rays to work with and when each ray is activated to 16.6666 percent the available space for violet ray is 16.6666, congruent with allowing for true balance along that path.
That would make sense matt, but I don't think all the rays are the same intensity.
There are also primary rays that are taken into consideration.
(07-13-2011, 03:23 PM)mattschryer Wrote: [ -> ]On the STS path with the green ray is deactivated, one has just 5 rays to work with
For STS, blue ray (not the DVD player) is 'deactivated' also.
More editing and deleting within this post - which I now feel is better suited for another thread..
As for the STS path I've recently been considering the potential for a STO 5th or 6th density wanderer to become polarized STS through a 3rd to 4th D investment which would be carrying forth a previously activated green ray which could possibly serve in such a way to allow for influences towards effecting healing and love rather than control and manipulation.
(07-13-2011, 08:01 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (07-13-2011, 03:23 PM)mattschryer Wrote: [ -> ]On the STS path with the green ray is deactivated, one has just 5 rays to work with
For STS, blue ray (not the DVD player) is 'deactivated' also.
Could you provide a session for this claim that the blue ray is deactivated on the STS path so I can read the words of Ra and interpret them accordingly? From my understanding the wisdom of the 5th density is necessary when affecting the necessary yellow ray configuration for STS harvestability.
(08-14-2011, 02:39 PM)mattschryer Wrote: [ -> ] (07-13-2011, 08:01 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (07-13-2011, 03:23 PM)mattschryer Wrote: [ -> ]On the STS path with the green ray is deactivated, one has just 5 rays to work with
Quote:For STS, blue ray (not the DVD player) is 'deactivated' also.
Could you provide a session for this claim that the blue ray is deactivated on the STS path so I can read the words of Ra and interpret them accordingly? From my understanding the wisdom of the 5th density is necessary when affecting the necessary yellow ray configuration for STS harvestability.
Quote:47.3 Questioner: You gave the values of better than 50% service-to-others for fourth-density positive and better than 95% service-to-self for fourth-density negative social memory complexes. Do these two values correspond to the same rate, shall I say, of vibration?
Ra: I am Ra. I perceive you have difficulty in expressing your query. We shall respond in an attempt to clarify your query.
The vibratory rates are not to be understood as the same in positive and negative orientations. They are to be understood as having the power to accept and work with intelligent infinity to a certain degree or intensity. Due to the fact that the primary color, shall we say, or energy blue is missing from the negatively oriented system of power, the green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in the vibratory schedules or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.
The positive on the other hand, shall we say, has the full spectrum of true color time/space vibratory patterns and thus contains a variant vibratory pattern or schedule. Each is capable of doing fourth-density work. This is the criterion for harvest.
Quote:47.4 Questioner: Did you say that blue was missing from fourth-density negative?
Ra: I am Ra. Let us clarify further. As we have previously stated, all beings have the potential for all possible vibratory rates. Thus the potential of the green and blue energy center activation is, of course, precisely where it must be in a creation of Love. However, the negatively polarized entity will have achieved harvest due to extremely efficient use of red and yellow/orange, moving directly to the gateway indigo bringing through this intelligent energy channel the in-streamings of intelligent infinity.
Apparently blue and green is not missing from sixth-density negative.
Makes sense. I don't see how it would be possible to maintain that much spiritual mass (of 6D), and be spiritually unbalanced. Balance must be practically total.
(08-14-2011, 11:31 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently blue and green is not missing from sixth-density negative.