I've been watching videos from various bible stories and I came across something that I felt deserves praise as the most dubious statement by Jesus or someone in the bible, I reserve this honor for the quote as it feels it is warlike from a peaceful person. So, I would like it if people could share dubious claims from the bible, and for now ignore the other religions, and share what they think was actually meant, here is the quote:
Quote:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
Either this is a quote about the warlike spread of the faith inside the roman era or its a thought about how when people advance wars will not be families against families but more for an individual soul.
I think it's a distortion inconsistent with the rest of the STO message, and is best ignored. There are plenty of them in all texts. I personally separate the wheat from the chaff, take what is helpful, and move on.
I am no scholar of the bible and my statement may make this self evident; however, perhaps there is another meaning. As you may be aware, the bible has been edited and selectively translated so it is difficult to know exactly what is meant by many things allowed to be printed in it. In that light, I believe that in the ascension process a wife will be taken and the husband left behind; a child will be taken and the mother left behind, etc. So, could this passage mean that by using our free will a son may accept the teachings of Jesus while the father rejects them thereby turning one against the other? Perhaps, it shouldn't be read literally but more metaphorically.
Or, it has nothing to do with actual person Jesus of Nazareth, but something put into his mouth by those who actually wrote the bible centuries after him.
The man who turned himself out to his enemies wouldnt have anything to do with a sword. He didnt even escape, practicing pacifism. He turned himself over to his enemies.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...1_0510.pdf
Quote:We have spoken with peace and yet, surely you know by now that the peace of which we speak is not the peace of your peoples, for your peoples have no true peace, but only destruction and the numbing of the senses. It is written in one of your holy works that the one known as Jesus said, “I come to bring not peace, but a sword.” And so will this peace seem in your life. As you become able to view your experiences in a conscious and loving manner, multiplying the true peace of your existence, that vision will cut through the feelings and the preferences of those about you who do not prefer true peace, but rather the illusion. If you seek peace, know this: it is truly worth that which is paid for, and yet it may sometime seem like loss. Rest, then in your meditation, in the true peace of love, and as you find your understanding causing you to act in such a way as to cause those about you to observe a difference in your actions, understand that those who radiate love may also be counted as fools.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._1017.aspx
Quote:There is such a confusion among your peoples, such a terrible, noisy confusion, in which you speak incessantly of right and wrong, in which your peoples judge and accept judgments and spend endless, endless time in discussion. Yet harmony will never come on that level; right and wrong will never be discovered on that level. From the smallest relationship to the greatest of your nations’ relationships, brotherhood can never be achieved by reason, but only, as you would call it, by prayer and meditation.
People are not alike, yet love has created them all. And the Creator within them is lovable, is love itself, and can speak to you of love in the face of the most inharmonious aspect on the outer plane. The spiritual path is not an easy one. You have known this, my friends, for some time. And when we say to you that our message is simple, we do not for a moment think that it is a simple thing to put into action. It has been written in your holy works that the master who teaches the consciousness of Christ brought not peace, but a sword. And this is the sword we ask you to accept in your lives, the sword of not judging, the sword of even willing to be foolish in another’s eyes. For when one does not judge, when one is willing to trust to the Creator, those around that person may think of him as foolish. Moreover, there is a great satisfaction on the love of a personality in, shall we say, vengeance or getting even. But what you are doing, my friends, when you answer those who judge you with an answering judgment, is collecting your karma, as you would call it, there on the spot. Yet your karma to them has not been collected, and you will answer for that karma. Far better that you allow the karma that has come to you to die, as you forgive, and in that forgiveness, the karma that is reflected from you is satisfied.
From what I gather but am not 100% sure... this seems to be not accepting the normal way of doing things with the people around you which the confederation points out is expected on this planet and instead taking some sort of higher perspective, higher road and thus being seen as foolish by those around you.. making you be in conflict with them in a way.
(09-25-2018, 07:06 PM)Cyclops Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...1_0510.pdf
Quote:We have spoken with peace and yet, surely you know by now that the peace of which we speak is not the peace of your peoples, for your peoples have no true peace, but only destruction and the numbing of the senses. It is written in one of your holy works that the one known as Jesus said, “I come to bring not peace, but a sword.” And so will this peace seem in your life. As you become able to view your experiences in a conscious and loving manner, multiplying the true peace of your existence, that vision will cut through the feelings and the preferences of those about you who do not prefer true peace, but rather the illusion. If you seek peace, know this: it is truly worth that which is paid for, and yet it may sometime seem like loss. Rest, then in your meditation, in the true peace of love, and as you find your understanding causing you to act in such a way as to cause those about you to observe a difference in your actions, understand that those who radiate love may also be counted as fools.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._1017.aspx
Quote:There is such a confusion among your peoples, such a terrible, noisy confusion, in which you speak incessantly of right and wrong, in which your peoples judge and accept judgments and spend endless, endless time in discussion. Yet harmony will never come on that level; right and wrong will never be discovered on that level. From the smallest relationship to the greatest of your nations’ relationships, brotherhood can never be achieved by reason, but only, as you would call it, by prayer and meditation.
People are not alike, yet love has created them all. And the Creator within them is lovable, is love itself, and can speak to you of love in the face of the most inharmonious aspect on the outer plane. The spiritual path is not an easy one. You have known this, my friends, for some time. And when we say to you that our message is simple, we do not for a moment think that it is a simple thing to put into action. It has been written in your holy works that the master who teaches the consciousness of Christ brought not peace, but a sword. And this is the sword we ask you to accept in your lives, the sword of not judging, the sword of even willing to be foolish in another’s eyes. For when one does not judge, when one is willing to trust to the Creator, those around that person may think of him as foolish. Moreover, there is a great satisfaction on the love of a personality in, shall we say, vengeance or getting even. But what you are doing, my friends, when you answer those who judge you with an answering judgment, is collecting your karma, as you would call it, there on the spot. Yet your karma to them has not been collected, and you will answer for that karma. Far better that you allow the karma that has come to you to die, as you forgive, and in that forgiveness, the karma that is reflected from you is satisfied.
From what I gather but am not 100% sure... this seems to be not accepting the normal way of doing things with the people around you which the confederation points out is expected on this planet and instead taking some sort of higher perspective, higher road and thus being seen as foolish by those around you.. making you be in conflict with them in a way.
Thank you for posting this.
Myself I am teetering on a behaviour of mine and this passage gave me perspective my higher self has been trying to make me trust and stay open. It’s nice to see it in black and white exactly when I needed it.
As with everything Jesus said, he spoke through a veil. His words are not literal. The sword he speaks of is the sword of intellect, discernment.
Understood in relation to the Tree of Life, this is the warrior-King aspect of Geburah (Strength/Severity (which is above Hod, the sphere of the intellect, on the Tree), which is in balance with the merciful qualities of Chesed, the beneficent priest-King. These two Sephiroth find their equilibrium in Tiphareth, which is the sphere of the Sun who is also the Son. This is the sphere of the Christ, the sacrificed god, the King, the Divine child.
There is no doubt deception in the Bible. Christ’s words have been altered in some places and some of his teachings even removed.
So let us try to decipher this passage... who are we around with in the incarnation? Our families. This was especially true in the times of Jesus. The family are the people who we interact with most often. It is with them that we will find enemies in when we choose a new way. Again, think in context of the times. Jesus and his teachings were rejected by many of the Jews. If Jesus is an enemy, then his followers were also an enemy. No doubt this was a source of contention amongst families. Christ came here to teach the ways of love. The Old Testament code of ethics was barren of love and compassion. It had become dogmatic heartless following at that point. Many were not going to give up their views. The sword of discernment cuts through illusion and falsity and people often take that as an evil.
The warrior and the priest are both essential archetypes in the Divine Mind, and they find equilibrium in Tiphareth (who in this case is Jesus Christ). Otherwise either Geburah or Chesed become out of balance and evil. Geburah- cruelty and destruction, Chesed- cowardice, avarice, bigotry, tyranny.
Anyway, that is how I interpret the passage. Hope it helps!
Let me explain Bible with Bible:
Quote:If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
(Jn 15:18-20)
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
(Mt 5:9-11)
I appreciate the quotes and the discussion but I would like to stress I am asking for two things, discussion on the quotes given and thoughts on their meaning, as well as dubious quotes themselves.
This is because of many reasons, mostly as a sign of solidarity to other cultures to show that we know the dubious parts of my own.
That being said, here is one more dubious quote:
http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?scri...6000100002
Quote:"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exod 22:18)
I am not seeking to attack the bible or christians, I am seeking to show the light of reason from our internal debate so other cultures do not feel we whitewash our own, in the spirit of the lively debate on Islam, Thank You.
(09-27-2018, 11:35 AM)Cyan Wrote: [ -> ]I appreciate the quotes and the discussion but I would like to stress I am asking for two things, discussion on the quotes given and thoughts on their meaning, as well as dubious quotes themselves.
This is because of many reasons, mostly as a sign of solidarity to other cultures to show that we know the dubious parts of my own.
That being said, here is one more dubious quote:
http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?scri...6000100002
Quote:"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exod 22:18)
I am not seeking to attack the bible or christians, I am seeking to show the light of reason from our internal debate so other cultures do not feel we whitewash our own, in the spirit of the lively debate on Islam, Thank You.
Now that is easy. There is a lot of STS in the Old Testament; Yahweh is essentially depicted as a pure STS entity who orders multiple genocides and punishes the Israelites for being insufficiently thorough in carrying them out. The OT (for the most part) is completely at odds with the STO tone of the NT - so much so that they, as far as I'm concerned, have no business being in one book.
If you disagree, go ahead and actually read through the OT and then come back and we can chat about it. Stuff in there is horrifying.
(09-25-2018, 07:06 PM)Cyclops Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...1_0510.pdf
Quote:We have spoken with peace and yet, surely you know by now that the peace of which we speak is not the peace of your peoples, for your peoples have no true peace, but only destruction and the numbing of the senses. It is written in one of your holy works that the one known as Jesus said, “I come to bring not peace, but a sword.” And so will this peace seem in your life. As you become able to view your experiences in a conscious and loving manner, multiplying the true peace of your existence, that vision will cut through the feelings and the preferences of those about you who do not prefer true peace, but rather the illusion. If you seek peace, know this: it is truly worth that which is paid for, and yet it may sometime seem like loss. Rest, then in your meditation, in the true peace of love, and as you find your understanding causing you to act in such a way as to cause those about you to observe a difference in your actions, understand that those who radiate love may also be counted as fools.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._1017.aspx
Quote:There is such a confusion among your peoples, such a terrible, noisy confusion, in which you speak incessantly of right and wrong, in which your peoples judge and accept judgments and spend endless, endless time in discussion. Yet harmony will never come on that level; right and wrong will never be discovered on that level. From the smallest relationship to the greatest of your nations’ relationships, brotherhood can never be achieved by reason, but only, as you would call it, by prayer and meditation.
People are not alike, yet love has created them all. And the Creator within them is lovable, is love itself, and can speak to you of love in the face of the most inharmonious aspect on the outer plane. The spiritual path is not an easy one. You have known this, my friends, for some time. And when we say to you that our message is simple, we do not for a moment think that it is a simple thing to put into action. It has been written in your holy works that the master who teaches the consciousness of Christ brought not peace, but a sword. And this is the sword we ask you to accept in your lives, the sword of not judging, the sword of even willing to be foolish in another’s eyes. For when one does not judge, when one is willing to trust to the Creator, those around that person may think of him as foolish. Moreover, there is a great satisfaction on the love of a personality in, shall we say, vengeance or getting even. But what you are doing, my friends, when you answer those who judge you with an answering judgment, is collecting your karma, as you would call it, there on the spot. Yet your karma to them has not been collected, and you will answer for that karma. Far better that you allow the karma that has come to you to die, as you forgive, and in that forgiveness, the karma that is reflected from you is satisfied.
From what I gather but am not 100% sure... this seems to be not accepting the normal way of doing things with the people around you which the confederation points out is expected on this planet and instead taking some sort of higher perspective, higher road and thus being seen as foolish by those around you.. making you be in conflict with them in a way.
This bolded part right here brought up a memory of something CA once said happened in 2014. One day sitting out in the living room, he's just sitting there in peace not even watching tv, probably just thinking about stuff knowing him, and his mom walks down stairs, goes to the back door, lights a cigarette then starts yelling at him like he's done something wrong. He said he looked at her without any judgment and told her she was just looking for something to blame, then went back to sitting quietly to himself. He said the look on her face was one he never saw before, he says it looked kimd of like someone gasping but mostly stunned.
If that weren't an example of the first posts bible passage coming to life, I don't know what is.
"but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household"