I'm very curious to know... what do all these "spiritually asleep" people look like from the other side? Are there just throngs of souls floating around in the universe that decide to have an incarnation whereby little to nothing is learned? Why would a soul choose this?
More specifically, why would so many souls of the "spiritually asleep" choose to incarnate on this planet at this time? I understand about how the end of the cycle brings with it so much potential... but again... if little to nothing is learned or gained from the incarnation, then why bother?
We talk here of the "sleeping masses"... but in the spiritual world these "masses" are not asleep...
They're not at the same point of the path as you. They are learning something different, experiencing a different aspect of the creator. Simply because their journey is different than yours doesn't make it less valuable. It still contributes something to the matrix of their higher self.
Instead of seeing someone asleep, look at them and see the creator, experiencing their present reality. And then look at yourself, and realize that you are also the creator, experiencing what you are experiencing now, and both are valid, valued and true, adding something to the whole. Imagine, if you will, a choir. Not everyone sings the same note, not even in the same spectrum of notes. Why would someone choose to play the triangle? Why would someone choose to sing the grand solo? Why not experience all of those things, and also while you're at it, being the triangle, being the song, being the energy that suffuses the choir because you can.
That is what all of those spiritually asleep people look like from the other side. Exactly the same as you, experiencing a different aspect of you.
Hmm. Perhaps I misstated the question.
It is not a question of why certain souls are at a different stage of their evolution.
It is a question of why so many would would choose to incarnate into an environment that does not appear to be suitable for their continued learning.
Being awake is hard. You then worry about how you're doing.
Some people just needed a break. So they incarnate and don't wake up.
It's much easier on them that way.
Sometimes I wish I were still asleep.
Then I could still harvest and not worry about it.
I think red chartreuse was meaning asleep to the spiritual as in not seeking.
Is that what you meant?
I agree Agua, it is hard to seek spiritually.
I think I'm doing good enough to make harvest,
but I'm not sure if I'll become enlightened in this lifetime.
I had to go back to my full meds after I tried reducing,
because I became afraid of little things.
I'm not very spiritual, but I do meditate.
At least I don't have tons of stress.
I was pointing out that I do not think RC was asking any questions that needed to state they were asleep as apposed to being awake to the level you think awake is.
I know you mean no offence but when one is struggling with feeling out of place because they are awakened from fully believing in the distraction of consumerism or other illusion building distractions I am not sure calling them also asleep is easing of the feelings of discomfort that come from starting to arise.
Anyone who is stirring from slumber and starting down the path to discovery of the deeper connections beyond the physical is awakening and awake. Just because they have not fully awakened doesn’t mean they cannot feel the discomfort of their different-ness and wonder why they are on this path and most are not if according to Ra that is why we are here at this time.
Perhaps I am misconstruing RCs intention behind the comment/questions but it seemed like a very innocent ask of
“ if this is such a spiritually relevant time with the hierarchy of incarnations being given to those with the best chance of moving towards love/unity why are the masses not stirring?”
RC I don’t have the answer unfortunately if that is your question.
I can only see by looking that it isn’t easy to give up slumber and reject the collective dream. It isn't more comfortable to awake either when the masses sleep. Perhaps when fully awakened that wouldn't be an issue but on the path it does increase difficulty and perhaphs cause some to return to the collective dream.
Even when through experience you know there is a deeper truth, a bigger “something” it takes being ready and confident to abandon the well worn path of collective history of people saying “this is the way”. sorry if I have misconstrued your question.
Either way I hope things become clearer for you. Compassion is what helps me.
If you can see the knots(of karma and illusion) people have tied themselves into to avoid seeing the truth, maybe you can see how hard it would be to untie the knots. Give up the hope the knots offer even though they are not the solution.
Edited to add. I have had many people talk to me in person who were very uncomfortable starting to awaken, they mention how they feel crazy or alone because no one talks about the bigger things than material life.
The mystery of the things known as supernatural ect. They always were glad when they could talk to someone about this stuff.
They are awakening, and awake maybe not in the cliche/final point awakened sense of enlightenment but even the term enlightenment is not an end point, any time the light of truth comes in it enlightens. To be not fully enlightened or awake does not erase the truth of being awake and having been enlightened even if to a small degree. It still denotes a breaking off from the collective illusion/dream
(12-08-2018, 04:39 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I agree Agua, it is hard to seek spiritually.
I think I'm doing good enough to make harvest,
but I'm not sure if I'll become enlightened in this lifetime.
I had to go back to my full meds after I tried reducing,
because I became afraid of little things.
I'm not very spiritual, but I do meditate.
At least I don't have tons of stress.
Sweetie you are spiritual. Do not talk down to yourself. First all you are is spiritual under the guise of flesh, second you live and breath this stuff, your mind and heart is always focused on this. Just because your path may look different than a guru in a warm climate who can sit in mediation all day does not mean you are not spiritual. You have catalyst a man in an ashram wouldn't have and you are handling it very well. You have a warm loving heart and want to grow/evolve. Give yourself some credit. 3D is a tricky gig.
You didn't pick an easy incarnation and you are doing it beautifully your heart is easy to see in all your posts.
Can't say I have witnessed much more loving spirits. Your intentions are pure.
looking at the original question, was it somehow about if you have the possibility to look at third density and sort of see the evolution of entities there ? If that was the original question, it's sort of a fun one to ask, but am not sure it would be possible, because of abridging sacred space of each entity. I am probably wrong about the question direction anyway, so all apologies in advance redchartreuse
(12-08-2018, 05:40 PM)flofrog Wrote: [ -> ]looking at the original question, was it somehow about if you have the possibility to look at third density and sort of see the evolution of entities there ? If that was the original question, it's sort of a fun one to ask, but am not sure it would be possible, because of abridging sacred space of each entity. I am probably wrong about the question direction anyway, so all apologies in advance redchartreuse
I reread the question and think I read it wrong too. lol
(11-28-2018, 11:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: [ -> ]I'm very curious to know... what do all these "spiritually asleep" people look like from the other side? Are there just throngs of souls floating around in the universe that decide to have an incarnation whereby little to nothing is learned? Why would a soul choose this?
More specifically, why would so many souls of the "spiritually asleep" choose to incarnate on this planet at this time? I understand about how the end of the cycle brings with it so much potential... but again... if little to nothing is learned or gained from the incarnation, then why bother?
We talk here of the "sleeping masses"... but in the spiritual world these "masses" are not asleep...
I'm trying again because I think I responded to the thread instead of your question.
I do not think the soul each being is a projection of is just floating around bored. They are trying to connect and guide but most entities really cannot hear/see with all their distraction.
"Ra - One may be a fine catcher of your game sphere, but if the eye is not turned as this sphere is tossed then perchance it will pass the entity by. If it turned its eyes upon the sphere, catching would be easy. "
Soul sources are pretty immense sometime the things being learned in a life look very "nonspiritual" focus wise but they are a pretty tricky transition lesson.
To learn deep down that even behind the veil you do not want to make others lose so you can win, or others to suffer at our expense seems to be a very slow, and very popular lesson at this time in humanity. It is a lesson of pre/early green ray for sure so timely with the 3d harvest. They may not be looking at the deeper aspects of spirituality but the beginning green ray is still a very difficult stumbling block for the large majority. It may look like sleeping but it is just a really crucial and tricky part of the path.
Also since souls are outside of time just because one incarnation isn't exactly a constant communion with it's 3d being doesn't mean other lives in other times are not also being explored. That is not LOO based but just an understanding I have so take or leave it but do not be troubled by it.
Yes- I think there were some additional views interjected into the question I posted that I did not express, nor accurately portray my current beliefs on the matter. It's alright though... Conversing about these topics can be difficult, and especially in a forum format where we don't have the benefit on nonverbal cues.
The question of my own level of "wokeness" is not really relavent, but suffice it to say I am doing the work... Growing...seeking... Evolving. I have made my choice, and so I'm not one languishing in the sinkhole of indifference.
Which leads to the salient question of what I mean by "spiritually asleep".. I mean in the same sense as Q'uo means it... As in having hit the "pause" or "snooze" button on one's evolution.
If the goal of incarnation is to grow, and if all this care and foreplanning goes into an incarnation .. with the soul choosing the environment which it feels would be best suited for growth, then it seems odd to have hundreds of millions of "sleeping" souls to have chosen to incarnate to early 21st century earth.
Surely, if it was not the soul's intention to grow...say maybe souls take a "vacation incarnation" every now and again.. that is all well and good, but wouldn't such a soul choose to incarnate into a more harmonious world?
I think Glow captured the essence of the query:
Quote: if this is such a spiritually relevant time with the hierarchy of incarnations being given to those with the best chance of moving towards love/unity why are the masses not stirring?”
Bingo. If we are to believe what Q'uo explains about the "seniority system" of incarnation, then we must conclude that souls of these hundreds of millions of people languishing in the sinkhole of indifference are actually the most likely to grow and evolve as a result of incarnating here.
So therefore.. either I am very confused about Q'uos teachings here, or something has gone quite amiss with respect to the way souls are choosing when/where to incarnate.
I'm OK with either possibility. Or some other option I haven't seen. But speculating about my own level of wokeness doesn't really come to bear on the question one way or another.
Since clearly, if I were "fully awake" myself, I would probably not be asking the question, or even be incarnated here/now to be able to ask it.
Agua- My apologies if my word choice in another thread appears to have triggered you. However, a quick search of L/L Research transcripts reveals the word "mechanism" used quite liberally by Q'uo as well as the Questioners. So not sure what your hangup is on that word, but perhaps there is something there for you to discover about yourself.
As regards myself, I will ask you to consider that it is not helpful for you to be making judgments about my seeking, or my current station in the spiritual growth process. Especially in a semi-public forum.
This is a forum, where we are using words to discuss spiritual topics. It is not helpful for you to recommend "getting out of one's head" in a discussion forum. This is most definitely an appropriate place for people to intellectualize about spiritual concepts, and I'm sure with a little reflection, you would agree.
If the topic at hand is uncomfortable for you, I would suggest finding something more amenable to your own vibrations.
Moreover, I didn't ask for (nor do I require) your approval of the information I seek, nor did I ask for your advice on how to best grow spiritually, myself.
I understand these can be difficult topics to navigate, what with all the psychological triggers and projections we have to contend with. Still, if you are unwilling to stick to the topic at hand, and keep your personal judgments to yourself, then I will ask you to refrain from posting in threads that I start.
(12-08-2018, 04:39 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I agree Agua, it is hard to seek spiritually.
I think I'm doing good enough to make harvest,
but I'm not sure if I'll become enlightened in this lifetime.
I had to go back to my full meds after I tried reducing,
because I became afraid of little things.
I'm not very spiritual, but I do meditate.
At least I don't have tons of stress.
Hi IndigoGeminiWolf,
If you are seeking to grow and evolve, and also care about others' welfare, then it is quite clear that you have "made the grade" at least according to Q'uos schema.
Also, according to Q'uo, the soul never chooses enlightenment as a goal for incarnation. That is something that personalities decide for themselves while here.
In other words, I think you're fine. No need to fret over your own evolution, so long as you are taking steps. In this thread, we are discussing those of us who refuse to take those steps.
(12-09-2018, 09:20 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: [ -> ]As regards myself, I will ask you to consider that it is not helpful for you to be making judgments about my seeking, or my current station in the spiritual growth process. Especially in a semi-public forum.
This is a forum, where we are using words to discuss spiritual topics. It is not helpful for you to recommend "getting out of one's head" in a discussion forum. This is most definitely an appropriate place for people to intellectualize about spiritual concepts, and I'm sure with a little reflection, you would agree.
If the topic at hand is uncomfortable for you, I would suggest finding something more amenable to your own vibrations.
Moreover, I didn't ask for (nor do I require) your approval of the information I seek, nor did I ask for your advice on how to best grow spiritually, myself.
I understand these can be difficult topics to navigate, what with all the psychological triggers and projections we have to contend with. Still, if you are unwilling to stick to the topic at hand, and keep your personal judgments to yourself, then I will ask you to refrain from posting in threads that I start.
It seems counter-intuitive to your stated goal of intellectualizing about spiritual concepts to then recommend to someone whose distortion is different than yours to simply not engage with you. You are the one saying, "this is a semi-public forum". It's true. That means everyone may have to engage with someone whose energy, vibration, and beliefs don't match the ones they hold. Why do you feel the best solution is to recommend they don't engage with you?
This thread appears to be completely on topic to me. It is not a thread about you personally, but about a question you presented as a discussion topic. Even though that question may resonate personally in your life, the question is not you, and someone's thoughts on the topic are not a personal judgement of you but instead a personal reflection of them and their distortion. I see no problem with Agua's thinking or your thinking. I see no problem with getting uncomfortable to explore a concept if we are with it to learn and lift each other up.
Peace, ya'll! Peace.
(12-08-2018, 04:42 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]I was pointing out that I do not think RC was asking any questions that needed to state they were asleep as apposed to being awake to the level you think awake is.
(...)
Anyone who is stirring from slumber and starting down the path to discovery of the deeper connections beyond the physical is awakening and awake. Just because they have not fully awakened doesn’t mean they cannot feel the discomfort of their different-ness and wonder why they are on this path and most are not if according to Ra that is why we are here at this time.
Such an interesting point Glow.
Just because of that, I think it's really hard to discern things anyway in another one's path. Someone apparently 'spiritually asleep' might in fact be working extremely hard internally but with no desire to speak about it or give proof of it. Also, 3D is so chaotic that we sometimes need to come up for breath !!
Hi Tae-
No worries. I think if you take a closer look at what I wrote there, it was making an if... then statement to establish a boundary. I didn't ask Agua to stop posting at this time, and I'm more than happy to continue discussing so long as we do not stray again into speculation about my own evolutionary status, as compared to others.
As has also been pointed out, we cannot tell anything about an individual's spiritual station from looking at the exterior, or perhaps even the energy, of a person from the outside. It is an exercise in futility.
However, we do know from Q'uos teachings that there is a large group of people who exist in the "sinkhole of indifference" and who continue to refuse to make a choice, the making of which is the main point of incarnating at this time. We also know, according to others of Q'uos teachings, that those selfsame souls, along with the rest of us, are those who stand to be most likely to grow in this environment. Finally, I think we may also safely presume that, for one who has not yet made the choice, that there is no further growth and spiritual work available to them until that choice has been made.
My intent with this thread is to discuss that group as a totality, and not any individuals, or myself in relation to such an individual. So that would be the off-topic part.
The question is around what the souls comprising that group might be like from outside the illusion. I hope that helps clear things up.
(12-09-2018, 09:51 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: [ -> ]Also, according to Q'uo, the soul never chooses enlightenment as a goal for incarnation. That is something that personalities decide for themselves while here.
Just curious if you can driect me to a reference for this. I am having issues figuring our under what context that would be said. Surely enlightenment(steadily increasing the light/truth we can carry/live/channel) is the goal of all spiritual seeking. Perhaps it is the context I am not understanding.
(12-09-2018, 10:40 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 09:51 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: [ -> ]Also, according to Q'uo, the soul never chooses enlightenment as a goal for incarnation. That is something that personalities decide for themselves while here.
Just curious if you can driect me to a reference for this. I am having issues figuring our under what context that would be said. Surely enlightenment(steadily increasing the light/truth we can carry/live/channel) is the goal of all spiritual seeking. Perhaps it is the context I am not understanding.
Sure! I just came across it again in the last week, so that's why it's fresh in my mind.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0329.aspx
Quote:G: Q’uo, I have one. Is the achievement of what we call enlightenment something that is planned pre-incarnationally or can the entity, with sufficient will and without such a pre-incarnational program, achieve the experience of enlightenment within the incarnation?
We are those of Q’uo, and aware of your query, my brother. In our estimation, there is not the pre-incarnative planning for enlightenment, realization or satori. The pre-incarnative planning focuses on that which shall be sought within the incarnation and those supporting resources needed for the journey of seeking. The pre-incarnative planning includes your relationships, your gifts, your limitations, and what you see as your faults and lacks. From an enormous selection of things that you have been and things that you have done in previous incarnations, you choose for your palette the colors which will paint this lifetime in the most beautiful and useful way.
You wish to have a beautiful incarnation in that you wish to create a sacred journey, a journey which partakes of beauty—ethical beauty, physical beauty, mental and emotional beauty, awareness of beauty. You plan these things for yourself. You wish to be useful, and so you choose for yourself ways in which you may serve, either by being or by doing. And because you also wish to evolve, you plan for yourself incarnational lessons that come up again and again, so that you may practice.
Generally, in an incarnation entities are looking to balance love with wisdom, wisdom with power, or some variety of two or three of those three aspects of the godhead principle: love, light and power. Realization, on the other hand, is that moment out of time, or more accurately, in time/space, when an entity is able to realize and therefore move all of himself through the gateway to intelligent infinity so that he, in the most holistic sense, may be inspirited by or be filled with the truth.
There are those who have moments of such realization and yet those moments pass. And there are those who enter that gateway of intelligent infinity never to return, in the sense that the impact of perfection is so powerful that a choice is made to live the life in this awareness even though, shall we say, the wiring of an entity living at this level of energy will burn out the physical body. It is not the goal of the higher self or the self outside incarnation to achieve realization. That is an object of desire which is chosen by those within incarnation and within that veil [of forgetting] which prevents them from knowing that all is truly one.
In terms of your soul-self, shall we say, or the self outside of incarnation, you see the incarnative period as a period of work; work on your balance and work to the service of the one infinite Creator. Outside of the veil, things look different enough that realization seems like the steady state and the incarnation is that wonderful time of unknowing when the entity sets about on the journey of faith.
Perhaps you will also find some additional inspiration for my question and comments in that quote.
(12-09-2018, 09:47 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Tae-
No worries. I think if you take a closer look at what I wrote there, it was making an if... then statement to establish a boundary. I didn't ask Agua to stop posting at this time, and I'm more than happy to continue discussing so long as we do not stray again into speculation about my own evolutionary status, as compared to others.
As has also been pointed out, we cannot tell anything about an individual's spiritual station from looking at the exterior, or perhaps even the energy, of a person from the outside. It is an exercise in futility.
However, we do know from Q'uos teachings that there is a large group of people who exist in the "sinkhole of indifference" and who continue to refuse to make a choice, the making of which is the main point of incarnating at this time. We also know, according to others of Q'uos teachings, that those selfsame souls, along with the rest of us, are those who stand to be most likely to grow in this environment. Finally, I think we may also safely presume that, for one who has not yet made the choice, that there is no further growth and spiritual work available to them until that choice has been made.
My intent with this thread is to discuss that group as a totality, and not any individuals, or myself in relation to such an individual. So that would be the off-topic part.
The question is around what the souls comprising that group might be like from outside the illusion. I hope that helps clear things up.
In that regard personally I look at the as within, so without, as above, so below parallel of humanity = one self.
We are not fully enlightened(solved for) so the body of us as a totality will also likely carry shadow.
I am not sure that came across right so in another way.
If as an individuated self we are only 60%(which would be high) distortion/shadow/illusion free, that leaves 40% of self carrying varying portions of distortion/shadow/illusion.
Also consider that darkness is used as catalyst to bring further light, those sleeping some at least may very well be serving a purpose as catalyst to awaken/enlighten the remaining theoretical 40%.
My opinion just sharing, not calling it gospel.
(12-09-2018, 10:49 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]In that regard personally I look at the as within, so without, as above, so below parallel of humanity = one self.
We are not fully enlightened(solved for) so the body of us as a totality will also likely carry shadow.
I am not sure that came across right so in another way.
If as an individuated self we are only 60%(which would be high) distortion/shadow/illusion free, that leaves 40% of self carrying varying portions of distortion/shadow/illusion.
I think that I've got the gist of what you are saying. And broadly, I would tend to agree. But then, the question still remains of what this looks like from the soul's perspective.
Perhaps it may be easier to navigate in the context of a little story:
Two souls are sitting next to each other at a juice bar. One soul turns to the other and says, "Wow! I just checked in on one of my incarnations in early 21st century earth, and, holy cow I am so excited at the amount of spiritual growth that has resulted from it."
The second soul turns to the first and says, "Hey you know what, I have an incarnation in early 21st century earth too... lemme check in... hmm it looks like my incarnation has become trapped in the "sinkhole of indifference" and is refusing to grow in any direction."
What might they say next? Is this the outcome they were seeking? And if not, what can be done about the situation? Is it just helpless because "free will"?
(I get that this is a totally speculative conversation, so please don't feel like I am expecting you to come up with a definitive answer.)
Quote:Also consider that darkness is used as catalyst to bring further light, those sleeping some at least may very well be serving a purpose as catalyst to awaken/enlighten the remaining theoretical 40%.
Yes, I have considered that, and it is a good point. However something still does not fully sit right with me about this train of logic.
It is like saying, because lemonade can be made from lemons, one shouldn't be concerned about growing too many lemons.
I find this type of thinking is very pervasive... the roots of it are deep down in my own mind still... but there seems to be this knee-jerk reaction that, since suffering and ignorance can result in growth, this justifies the suffering and ignorance in the first place.
Another analogy. It is as if somebody goes to an organic farmer's market, and selects a bounty of fresh produce with the intention to come home and craft a delicious salad. They then neglect or forget to prepare the salad, and the produce starts to rot. So then, the person decides to ferment it and keep it down in their cellar indefinitely "just in case" one day the fresh food were to run out.
But in reality there is a neverending abundance of fresh food. So while fermenting slightly rotted produce might be a handy "trick" one can perform to turn something "bad" into something "good", in the final analysis, it would likely be more enjoyable, and require much less expenditure of energy, to just go get some more fresh food and recommit to one's original intention.
The original intention was to make a fresh salad.
(And yes, I love fermented foods. Just an analogy.)
Nothing quite like a good booty nap.
(12-19-2018, 02:42 PM)Cyan Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing quite like a good booty nap.
True! And yet also true that trying to get in a good "booty nap" in the middle of a train station at high noon during one of the busiest travel days of the year seems a bit... counterproductive.
Surely, in all of infinity there is some place more amenable to booty napping? Remember... the goal is to get in a good booty nap...
Seems the gravity of those working elevates those not working, its like hangliding in a good wind generated by reverse windmills, you know windmills that spin to generate wind.
(12-19-2018, 02:49 PM)Cyan Wrote: [ -> ]Seems the gravity of those working elevates those not working, its like hangliding in a good wind generated by reverse windmills, you know windmills that spin to generate wind.
Yes, I suppose you are right in the sense of considering how much seeking those in the "sinkhole of indifference" have catalyzed among those choosing to grow.
Even still... is this what is best for the whole? Still a lot of senseless ignorance and suffering going on.
Personally, I am more than happy to continue growing using catalysts other than another person's ignorance or suffering as lift for my spiritual hanglider. I would be more than willing to fully align my free will with the notion that growth and evolution are possible without the need for (at least the most grotesque and severe) forms of ignorance and suffering, for both myself and others.
Yet it seems, that there is some "greater will" which as yet prohibits or impedes the manifestation of this. I wonder what's that about??