Bring4th

Do they just do the mindfulness meditation in order to open the gateway to intelligent infinity?
I'm really curious, perhaps they're meditating on hatred instead of compassion?

(12-12-2019, 10:54 AM)rinzler Wrote: [ -> ]Do they just do the mindfulness meditation in order to open the gateway to intelligent infinity?
I'm really curious, perhaps they're meditating on hatred instead of compassion?

I have a feeling that there isn't meditation really happening unless it would be to open to channel other negative beings on the other hand, I would be guessing there is a lot of intellectualizing and thinking of objects and how they can possess or control certain objects, this goes for other humans as well as they are seen as objects. However, who really knows? It is hard for some to even imagine what they are really like and if they do things like meditate. Possibly meditation could aid an STS in the ways of pure wisdom although meditation generally can open one up to universal love. I would imagine the would have to be cautious about meditating.
There are conscious STS entities and therefore I would think there is some type of mindfulness happening with the conscious STS.
Interesting question

They meditate on the self.
Their method of realizing self as God, are as varied as the service to others path.
If you want everyone to get on as a united memory complex...you meditate on being one with all that is, by seeing the all, as self.
If you want to remain separate and experience creator as all that is, contained within...you meditate on being one with all that is, by seeing the self, as all.

It's not a case of trying to be hateful, necessarily.
More of a perspective of what the original logos would've felt, as it realized it was...without any other self.
How is that hateful?
Our dualistic nature wants to put STS in the "manipulation for control" basket.
The truth is that there are conscious and unconscious manipulative behaviors, on both sides of the fence.

I tune into the energy of unity. I'm not sure how STS beings do it.
Maybe they tune into the energy of separation.

I had 2 contacts with a sts entity named Lat.

When I asked him, what he was doing, he just replied with "I am meditating".

What my assumption is, is that they (or atleast some of them including him), do zen meditation, so just not having any thoughts and focus.

It really depends on the individual, there is no one size fits all method for either positive or negative.

I've wondered this too. I think Kaaron is correct in that they meditate on the self in their own way.

I remember one quote by Ra where it is stated that negative entities do visualization exercises of their own in order to obtain power (unfortunately, I haven't been able to find this quote). I also remember one of Epstein's victims saying that he had a daily meditation practice every morning. Perhaps he was doing these visualization exercises, picturing himself having more power, or perhaps negative entities meditate in order to calm the mind in order to become more effective at controlling themselves, being less driven by their emotions, and thus committing their energies more fully to the domination of others.

Discovering that we are not the mind and that we don't have to believe everything that the mind says can be a powerful tool for both polarities. The positive entity discovers that they don't have to listen to the negative thoughts that appear in their minds, thus opening the way towards rapid positive polarization. On the other hand, one can just as easily dismiss thoughts of positivity regarding other-selves, thoughts of empathy, of consideration of the suffering of others. This is probably the attitude that negative entities adopt when they focus on the notion that their mind is not their identity.

After all, even when we know we are not the mind, we still very much have to choose whether we're going to act positively or negatively.

Ok! These are interesting comments. It takes a little from each one of us to frame an entire picture. Yeah I can actually visualize what both Ray and Kaaron are saying and that's puts an interesting twist onto the subject.

It’s the same principle for the Left Hand Path as it is for the Right. The objects of meditation and realizations gleaned shall be different, but the method is the same.

Quote:Once the power of concentration has been achieved meditation is possible. Meditation is the concentrated examination of something, whether it be an image or an idea, and while the mind is fixed upon it, allowing ideas to rise around it. In this manner a well is sunk into the unconscious, as it were, and the related ideas allowed to rise to the surface.

This process allows for the significance of any symbol to be elucidated, and notes can be taken of the ideas that arise. Furthermore, the ideas that come from meditation are ‘realizations’ rather than concepts. To have a mental concept is merely to have a piece of information held within the mind which may be useful or may not be and is easily forgotten. To have a realization of something means that it becomes a part of oneself. One has taken an idea and made it real—‘real-ized’ it.

—Gareth Knight, A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism

Quote:50.8
QUESTIONER: Thank you. How does the ability to hold visual images in mind allow the adept to do polarization in consciousness without external action?

RA: I am Ra. This is not a simple query, for the adept is one which will go beyond the green ray which signals entry into harvestability. The adept will not simply be tapping into intelligent energy as a means of readiness for harvest but tapping into both intelligent energy and intelligent infinity for the purpose of transmuting planetary harvestability and consciousness.

The means of this working lie within. The key is first, silence, and secondly, singleness of thought. Thusly a visualization which can be held steady to the inward eye for several of your minutes, as you measure time, will signal the adept’s increase in singleness of thought. This singleness of thought then can be used by the positive adept to work in group ritual visualizations for the raising of positive energy, by negative adepts for the increase in personal power.

(12-15-2019, 01:02 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:50.8
QUESTIONER: Thank you. How does the ability to hold visual images in mind allow the adept to do polarization in consciousness without external action?

RA: I am Ra. This is not a simple query, for the adept is one which will go beyond the green ray which signals entry into harvestability. The adept will not simply be tapping into intelligent energy as a means of readiness for harvest but tapping into both intelligent energy and intelligent infinity for the purpose of transmuting planetary harvestability and consciousness.

The means of this working lie within. The key is first, silence, and secondly, singleness of thought. Thusly a visualization which can be held steady to the inward eye for several of your minutes, as you measure time, will signal the adept’s increase in singleness of thought. This singleness of thought then can be used by the positive adept to work in group ritual visualizations for the raising of positive energy, by negative adepts for the increase in personal power.

I had been working on myself toward ascension. This comes with increasing your own power, wisdom and compassion.

Is it STS to work towards ascension? I don't really have a group to work with.

I don't want a bunch of powers, but I would like to live off light and raise the vibration of my body toward love and light.

I do disagree that increase in personal power is purely a negative thing. But I could be wrong.

Maybe even my choice in username may be self-aggrandizement, though I meant it only for that I can feel the Central Sun now.

STO found mass orgies were most efficacious.
STS just rub one out.
You're welcome.

(12-15-2019, 02:07 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]I had been working on myself toward ascension. This comes with increasing your own power, wisdom and compassion.

Is it STS to work towards ascension?

No, I don't think so. You mentioned also compassion. This kind of advancement is also in service to others. Working on self, on one's positive response in interaction with others raises the planetary vibration. In doing this you also need power and wisdom used in a positive way.

(12-16-2019, 12:13 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2019, 02:07 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]I had been working on myself toward ascension. This comes with increasing your own power, wisdom and compassion.

Is it STS to work towards ascension?

No, I don't think so. You mentioned also compassion. This kind of advancement is also in service to others. Working on self, on one's positive response in interaction with others raises the planetary vibration. In doing this you also need power and wisdom used in a positive way.

The paths are misunderstood.
STS can be positive.
If you better yourself...focus on loving yourself and evolve as a loving being, you will naturally raise your vibration to the level of 6D negative. You may then turn your love outward and unite in balance with positive.
This isn't something that involves power over others.
There is a method of ascension through the STS Hierarchy but there are ways of progressing alone, without trampling others.

(12-16-2019, 03:33 PM)Kaaron Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2019, 12:13 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2019, 02:07 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]I had been working on myself toward ascension. This comes with increasing your own power, wisdom and compassion.

Is it STS to work towards ascension?

No, I don't think so. You mentioned also compassion. This kind of advancement is also in service to others. Working on self, on one's positive response in interaction with others raises the planetary vibration. In doing this you also need power and wisdom used in a positive way.

The paths are misunderstood.
STS can be positive.
If you better yourself...focus on loving yourself and evolve as a loving being,  you will naturally raise your vibration to the level of 6D negative. You may then turn your love outward and unite in balance with positive.
This isn't  something that involves power over others.
There is a method of ascension through the STS Hierarchy but there are ways of progressing alone, without trampling others.

I do send love and blessings out into the world as well. I also work with energies of unity.

Is negative 4D and such misunderstood? If you get there you aren't automatically dominated and become a slave to higher beings do you?

What about beings who attain the rainbow body and ascend themselves? Do they suffer the fate of becoming a slave to a higher being in negative 4D?

I don't know why I fear 4D- if I may end up harvesting myself there.

(12-16-2019, 04:08 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2019, 03:33 PM)Kaaron Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2019, 12:13 PM)loostudent Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2019, 02:07 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]I had been working on myself toward ascension. This comes with increasing your own power, wisdom and compassion.

Is it STS to work towards ascension?

No, I don't think so. You mentioned also compassion. This kind of advancement is also in service to others. Working on self, on one's positive response in interaction with others raises the planetary vibration. In doing this you also need power and wisdom used in a positive way.

The paths are misunderstood.
STS can be positive.
If you better yourself...focus on loving yourself and evolve as a loving being,  you will naturally raise your vibration to the level of 6D negative. You may then turn your love outward and unite in balance with positive.
This isn't  something that involves power over others.
There is a method of ascension through the STS Hierarchy but there are ways of progressing alone, without trampling others.

I do send love and blessings out into the world as well. I also work with energies of unity.

Is negative 4D and such misunderstood? If you get there you aren't automatically dominated and become a slave to higher beings do you?

What about beings who attain the rainbow body and ascend themselves? Do they suffer the fate of becoming a slave to a higher being in negative 4D?

I don't know why I fear 4D- if I may end up harvesting myself there.

I feel like it's a choice.
You can stick to yourself and be completely self sufficient.
It is the illusion of separation that creates the conditions for power over others. Subscription to this philosophy, is a choice IMO.
If you are completely focused on the self, other selves mean little to your progress.
If you want to feel superior in separation, you join the hierarchy.
I look at it like the STS hierarchy exists in the realm of separation.
It is not the realm itself.

It's weird, but I feel even when I send love to others and energetically help others that it's self-serving.

I like to tune into the energy of Unity.

I do focus on increasing my own density, and feeling what I think is intelligent infinity.

I just want to go where it feels natural. Where I can best help both others and myself.

I don't like being separate.

I want to be where I can't really abuse my power.

(12-16-2019, 05:10 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]It's weird, but I feel even when I send love to others and energetically help others that it's self-serving.

I like to tune into the energy of Unity.

I do focus on increasing my own density, and feeling what I think is intelligent infinity.

I just want to go where it feels natural. Where I can best help both others and myself.

I don't like being separate.

I want to be where I can't really abuse my power.

It seems like you're just over thinking it.
Sending love to others will feel good. Even if you do it with this intention, the fact that you are embracing another self, makes it an STO action, by default.
You are radiant...not absorbent.
To love the self as all, is to love the all as self.

I think meditation which relaxes the mind can be done independently of polarity, just like efforts aimed at physical relaxation. Different mental efforts, meditative or not, which build the ability to focus and concentrate, are likewise neutral in themselves. Differences would enter in what the abilities of the mind are applied towards, when they are applied towards something, like others have described above.

(12-15-2019, 02:07 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]I had been working on myself toward ascension. This comes with increasing your own power, wisdom and compassion.

Is it STS to work towards ascension? I don't really have a group to work with.

I don't want a bunch of powers, but I would like to live off light and raise the vibration of my body toward love and light.

I do disagree that increase in personal power is purely a negative thing. But I could be wrong.

Various spiritual teachings contain warnings associating the self-centered use of spiritual energy or power with negativity. I'm not going to try to categorize your efforts (I don't really know enough to do that), though I can point to a few general ideas.

Carl Jung pointed out that "people do not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious". I.e., it doesn't really do anything useful to imagine stuff turning into light, even though in the short term it can feel as if something is happening. Significant transformations of consciousness involve experience going beyond imagination, bringing about change through what is experienced - the inner landscape changing through experience.

Doubt or dissatisfaction can be signals about the need for new types of exploration. Basically, your mind at a higher level may have grown tired of the repeating messages of "turn me into love and light now", and if so, maybe it can lead you on a journey towards discovering in some more immediate sense what it means to become more light in mind and loving in heart. Perhaps looking for patterns of clues, or inspiration, in a personal way can help.

(12-16-2019, 05:10 PM)Great Central Sun Wrote: [ -> ]It's weird, but I feel even when I send love to others and energetically help others that it's self-serving.

Maybe there's a mismatch between understanding at a higher level and what you have in mind at this level? It could be that a part of you is trying to reach through and bring a broader or different perspective. Maybe a more open-ended contemplation would help in arriving at something new, and through that, figuring out what it's about.

(12-16-2019, 07:58 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: [ -> ]Carl Jung pointed out that "people do not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious".

I like to think that a bullet proof way of determining one's chosen polarity is to identify whether the trend is to accept and love their own shadow side, or to control and suppress their own light.

"Any mind complex distortion which you may call emotional which is of itself disorganized, needs, in order to be useful to the negatively oriented entity, to be repressed and then brought to the surface in an organized use."

Like you pointed out, for the STO entity the shadow must be confronted and made conscious at one point.

(12-17-2019, 08:45 AM)Ray711 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2019, 07:58 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: [ -> ]Carl Jung pointed out that "people do not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious".

I like to think that a bullet proof way of determining one's chosen polarity is to identify whether the trend is to accept and love their own shadow side, or to control and suppress their own light.

"Any mind complex distortion which you may call emotional which is of itself disorganized, needs, in order to be useful to the negatively oriented entity, to be repressed and then brought to the surface in an organized use."

Like you pointed out, for the STO entity the shadow must be confronted and made conscious at one point.

One need not be overpowered by their shadow once they've gone through a dark night I'm finding.

You don't have to take on your shadow all at once.

Allow it to show itself and love it, a little at a time.

It produces low-level nervousness, but also love at the same time.

That's how I'm working with shadow.

Like they said in The Lion King "being brave doesn't mean you go looking for trouble."

(12-17-2019, 08:45 AM)Ray711 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2019, 07:58 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: [ -> ]Carl Jung pointed out that "people do not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious".

I like to think that a bullet proof way of determining one's chosen polarity is to identify whether the trend is to accept and love their own shadow side, or to control and suppress their own light.

"Any mind complex distortion which you may call emotional which is of itself disorganized, needs, in order to be useful to the negatively oriented entity, to be repressed and then brought to the surface in an organized use."

Like you pointed out, for the STO entity the shadow must be confronted and made conscious at one point.

It can be much trickier than that, from what I know. How people care, what the sense of meaning is rooted in more deeply, and how they relate to others - I think that's more fundamental. Inner conflict, and struggle with what is found unacceptable in oneself, can go on in the long term in people with positive souls.

Actually, negative people seem to have it much easier, in terms of a simpler pattern of inner division and conflict, while positive people, because they care more about things beyond the self, can become far more neurotic. (At an extreme, it's the difference between the psychopath who always feels good except when desires are frustrated or external control is thwarted, and the neurotic wreck who lives miserably with an overflowing of empathy and concern.)

There are those who control the self consciously in order to control others, and there are those who, consciously or unconsciously, control the self in an outwardly disorganized way. In a positive person, self-control and repression don't translate outwardly in the same way, and often simply mean that blockages exist.

The point is that there's not two, but more, patterns of dealing with the shadow. And in long-term development, there can be several distinct stages, intermediate stages being filled with self-conflict.

An unconventional psychiatrist, Kazimierz Dabrowski, developed the "Theory of Positive Disintegration", systematizing the long, multi-stage journey of positive development, where many reach the earlier stages of conflict but far fewer go beyond it to re-integrate the psyche according to a personal ideal-structure which has developed. The following is a very short summary:

Level I: Primary integration. The majority. Some simply don't deal with a conflict, instead just living out the darkness in self-love without understanding. More are rigidly socialized, their inner worlds constrained by the rules of society. The "third factor", neither biology nor society, isn't actively directing life.

Level II: Unilevel disintegration. The most common crisis stage. People plummet into confusion, ambivalence, and existential anxiety, with disorganized inner conflict. If it extends for a long time, then psychosis or suicide may result. Most fall back to the previous level, some end negatively, some move forward.

Level III: Spontaneous multilevel disintegration. Some begin to develop a multi-level sense of meaning in the midst of the crisis, turning the inner conflict into a struggle between the higher and the lower.

Level IV: Directed multilevel disintegration. Some make the inner restructuring process consciously driven, re-examining life in all aspects from the new foundation. The prosocial becomes individual and authentic instead of dictated by something external.

Level V: Secondary integration. A few bring the process to completion, the result being a new harmony in which what is valued is consciously lived.

In short, the work of "making the darkness conscious" depends on something positive having been built, which can enlighten the darker parts of the person. It often takes years of intense inner conflict before that can happen. Thereafter, a fuller and genuinely positive harmony can begin to encompass the whole of the psyche.

(12-17-2019, 12:28 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, negative people seem to have it much easier, in terms of a simpler pattern of inner division and conflict, while positive people, because they care more about things beyond the self, can become far more neurotic. (At an extreme, it's the difference between the psychopath who always feels good except when desires are frustrated or external control is thwarted, and the neurotic wreck who lives miserably with an overflowing of empathy and concern.)

This reminds me of when Ra talked about one of the tarot cards (The Lovers), how STS entities enjoy a kind of protection in that, by not recognizing other-selves as mirrors of what is inside of them, they can simply ignore these parts within their own selves.

I don't think the "neurotic wreck" is such a good example of positivity, though. It implies discontent with the world on the virtue that it is not compassionate, loving or good enough. This is a judgement towards the world, and judgement always entails one shade of negativity or another. I'm not saying such a position is not understandable (it most certainly is so), but such an entity still has considerable work to do towards positive polarization.

I do agree with your point that there are many ways in which people deal with the shadow, though. Perhaps my previous comment can be made more accurate by saying that at high levels of polarization, STO accepts its own shadow, and STS represses its own light.

(12-18-2019, 07:44 AM)Ray711 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-17-2019, 12:28 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, negative people seem to have it much easier, in terms of a simpler pattern of inner division and conflict, while positive people, because they care more about things beyond the self, can become far more neurotic. (At an extreme, it's the difference between the psychopath who always feels good except when desires are frustrated or external control is thwarted, and the neurotic wreck who lives miserably with an overflowing of empathy and concern.)

This reminds me of when Ra talked about one of the tarot cards (The Lovers), how STS entities enjoy a kind of protection in that, by not recognizing other-selves as mirrors of what is inside of them, they can simply ignore these parts within their own selves.

I don't think the "neurotic wreck" is such a good example of positivity, though. It implies discontent with the world on the virtue that it is not compassionate, loving or good enough. This is a judgement towards the world, and judgement always entails one shade of negativity or another. I'm not saying such a position is not understandable (it most certainly is so), but such an entity still has considerable work to do towards positive polarization.

I do agree with your point that there are many ways in which people deal with the shadow, though. Perhaps my previous comment can be made more accurate by saying that at high levels of polarization, STO accepts its own shadow, and STS represses its own light.

Quote:I don't think the "neurotic wreck" is such a good example of positivity, though. It implies discontent with the world on the virtue that it is not compassionate, loving or good enough

I agree. I don't think neurosis is a good description overall but I have seen the worry warts that are positive as I have seen this in myself early in my journey. We all know that moment when we say, AM I doing this right? Am I kind enough? Do I care enough? All those things. And Ray you are correct to maintain this means more work to balance this portion of the self. All is well is what we must tell ourselves in order to stop those neurotic tendencies and meditation is a good grounder for the worry wart. As for the STS and the Lovers card...the basic principal of this card is yes, the reflection of other self is you. To strike the balance, equilibrium of the opposites. For the positive polarity as it is chosen, there is no protection in self and other self encounters and the opposite stands true for the negative polarity. They are constantly bracing themselves against us and putting up blinders and walls that cannot be penetrated easily or even at all. I describe this in the most basic representation of this card. This particular card is meaningful and has much more substance than I can begin to write.
And you are so right when you say, "it implies discontent with the world", exactly. It implies discontent within your own world which is the only world that is. That finely tuned balance is much needed in the positive polarity and it requires a different type of work upon/within the self so that we are better prepared to help or engage with the world outside of us, "other selves and even nature". The inner work will always improve the outer manifestations.

Meditation is simply focus. And I would think a dedicated STS individual would, in general, be better at meditation than an STO-oriented individual because of this. An STS mindset is already in a one-pointed focus with the self.

I agree with your thoughts, Kristina.

(12-18-2019, 11:43 AM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Meditation is simply focus. And I would think a dedicated STS individual would, in general, be better at meditation than an STO-oriented individual because of this. An STS mindset is already in a one-pointed focus with the self.

This is not exactly correct. If one is serious about reaching Awakening, focus is only the main factor during the stages that prepare the entity for the true work in meditation. Once single-pointed attention has been achieved, meditation becomes effortless and automatic, with no thought penetrating the field of awareness, and joy and bliss being felt. This state makes it easy for the experiencing of the interconnectedness of all to arise (and from there, many other Awakenings, each revealing more and more truth of the nature of the Creator). Suffice to say, any such experiences would impose serious questions upon someone seeking the left hand path.

It's also to be noted that even for a less advanced meditator, meditation is a tool to make the self aware that true satisfaction lies in the mere notion of being; the "I am-ness". That there is nothing outside the self that can bring true happiness. This is anathema to the hoarder-like mentality of STS entities, where they are constantly striving for something else in the realm of physicality.

A book I have says that in order to reach the state of bliss, though, it is necessary to carry out a lifestyle that doesn't fill the mind with negative luggage. So, perhaps STS entities hit a roadblock in the meditation process that prevents them from reaching the highest gifts of meditation.

Also, a very relevant quote from Ra on the whole subject of polarity in relation to meditation:

Quote:Many use the trunk and roots of mind as if that portion of mind were a badly used, prostituted entity. Then this entity gains from this great storehouse that which is rough, prostituted, and without great virtue. Those who turn to the deep mind, seeing it in the guise of the maiden, go forth to court it. The courtship has nothing of plunder in its semblance and may be protracted, yet the treasure gained by such careful courtship is great. The right-hand and left-hand transformations of the mind may be seen to differ by the attitude of the conscious mind towards its own resources as well as the resources of other-selves.

The STS entities I have worked with emphasize on grounding first and foremost. They work mostly with lower chakras, and skip the heart (although this is optional)

(01-05-2020, 06:38 PM)Ma Wrote: [ -> ]The STS entities I have worked with emphasize on grounding first and foremost.  They work mostly with lower chakras, and skip the heart (although this is optional)

Do they know consciously about the work with the lower chakras and the goal of STS path? Can you describe a bit about that?

(01-06-2020, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2020, 06:38 PM)Ma Wrote: [ -> ]The STS entities I have worked with emphasize on grounding first and foremost.  They work mostly with lower chakras, and skip the heart (although this is optional)

Do they know consciously about the work with the lower chakras and the goal of STS path? Can you describe a bit about that?

The STS entity I mostly interact with are 6D and are vary aware of their lower chakras,  I'm not sure about other STS densities or really all other STS entities and their awareness of their charkas.

I am going to ask them more on this topic when I connect with them again, but that won't be for a while.

(01-07-2020, 06:16 AM)Alexis Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-06-2020, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2020, 06:38 PM)Ma Wrote: [ -> ]The STS entities I have worked with emphasize on grounding first and foremost.  They work mostly with lower chakras, and skip the heart (although this is optional)

Do they know consciously about the work with the lower chakras and the goal of STS path? Can you describe a bit about that?

The STS entity I mostly interact with are 6D and are vary aware of their lower chakras,  I'm not sure about other STS densities or really all other STS entities and their awareness of their charkas.

I am going to ask them more on this topic when I connect with them again, but that won't be for a while.

Curiosity here, how do you know what path another self is truly on? And if really an STS entity, wouldn't they lie to manipulate your light?

And by judging another that we cannot possibly fully understand, aren't we tipping our own balance to STS?