Bring4th

Hey everyone,

Since there hasn't been much activity here as of late I thought I would share some thoughts / questions that I've been mulling around for a while.

A lot, maybe even most of what we talk about on this forum have to do with things that are unseen or that are non-physical. They are metaphysical. And as such a great deal of that has to do with the sorts of thoughts that flutter through our minds. I suppose the best way to sum up my questions / confusion would be to ask, how much of what we focus on or think about manifests itself in the real world? Are there such things as private thoughts or actions? Are there such things as thoughts that have no impact on anyone else whatsoever?

A person with a materialistic world-view is content to go forward believing that the idle thoughts of the day whilst commuting, or opinions given silently to ones self while watching a political debate (or how about a reality TV show?) are just chemical reactions or minute electronic stimulation in the brain. Nothing but neuron hub-bub. And as such, have no real consequence to anyone else unless those brain functions manifest themselves as action by the human body. (Another line of proof for ignorance being true bliss).

But as meta-physicians and seekers of spirit using consciousness as our main tool, can we accept this? We know we are One. Through some mechanism we can't fully understand with science, we know that we have some connection to every other being that exists. A connection to every other thing that exists. This is profound and beautiful, but is the downside the eradication of what we understand to be privacy?

Please entertain this line of thinking in the following example. I would be very much interested to hear what you think. There are more examples I have but lets start here and see how it goes.

I have to admit, I enjoy watching a good "Ultimate Fighting" match. I don't really enjoy seeing people being hurt but I do find it very interesting to see two men who are vetted by years of experience in different styles of martial art facing off. Maybe it's a symptom of my XY chromosomes or maybe just an appreciation of the art and graceful majesty that the human body is capable of. But regardless, I have been known to watch many UFC matches. So- in a metaphysical sense, how am I participating here? Materialism would say nothing is happening on my part, besides the indirect support that my Youtube click or cable television time. Lets really isolate this example. What would the ramifications be if I happened to see a UFC match on a television in a department store display case? Is my the attention my mind/body/spirit complex is putting towards that match in any way perpetuating the level of violence in society? What if instead of the UFC match, there was a pornographic film playing? Would my attention be adding to the dis-empowerment of the female gender? Right there, and right then, not later on. Does it make some difference, energetically or otherwise? Or is this just a case of metaphysical paranoia?

If you have them in mind, I would also love to read any Ra or Quo "quo"tes you may find that supports the idea for or against.

Very interested to hear your opinion,
~Lavazza

I used to gamble on football and wondered similar things while watching the games. What if every person (millions) watching the superbowl wanted team "A" to win and focused on that while watching the event. Would team "B" stand a chance at winning?

Side note: I stopped gambling on and watching football last year. It occured to me that it was a collosal waste of time watching all those games and getting all hyped up or upset.

- I think that all of our thoughts contribute to the collective consiousness a little bit. Like a drop of water falling into a lake.

Hi Lavazza,

Great question! I will give a loud "no" to your questions...I believe that there are no inert thoughts, we are all connected in the "Fabric of Consciousness". We are One.

Quote:A lot, maybe even most of what we talk about on this forum have to do with things that are unseen or that are non-physical. They are metaphysical. And as such a great deal of that has to do with the sorts of thoughts that flutter through our minds. I suppose the best way to sum up my questions / confusion would be to ask, how much of what we focus on or think about manifests itself in the real world? Are there such things as private thoughts or actions? Are there such things as thoughts that have no impact on anyone else whatsoever?

I get time/space and space/ time mixed up so I will just call it "the other side".

Q'uo has said many times that on the other side "thoughts are things".

Based on that I would say that whatever we give our energy to, we help create. If we are getting entertained by violence and pornography and sharing in the energy of violence and pornography than we are helping to create it, imho.

If we believe that war is the way to peace, and we support pre-emptive attack on another sovereign nation, than we help to create war. At this point in history, our leaders cannot go to war without the support of the people, and they use all kinds of propaganda to get the people to support it.
To convince us that it is God's will or scare us into believing that we should kill our "enemies" before they kill us.

I don't think it's metaphysical paranoia at all, I think it's your higher self nudging you to have more responsibility in the creation of the new earth where there will be no more war, or poverty, no more violence. Where there will be no more rape or sexual abuse.

Fourth density, the new earth, is already here on the other side, we just have to get our thoughts in line with it here so we can manifest it.

If I get a chance I will try to find some quotes. Really great question, Lavazza, once more people understand this, we will be able to move into the new earth faster and easier...I for one cannot wait, I'm am so weary of the pain and suffering we've manifested in 3rd density.

L&L

Here is a channeling from Hatonn. I searched "manifest" and found it in the L/L library. It speaks of "thought power" and mass consciousness.

http://www.llresearch.org/origins/mcu/mc...me_01.aspx

Quote:My friends, you have no idea of your own thought power. This thought power when concentrated by the multitudes, by the masses, can bring about anything. There is much power in thought my brothers, much power. Our problems are solved by thought; we have no need for wars or violence. When we have a problem, our people attack it in thought, in unison, and the problem dissolves itself. Think about this, my brothers; there is much food there for thought. This is only a slight glimpse of what can be accomplished once you understand and know life as it really exists.

Quote:There is much to be accomplished among your peoples in the days to come. Your planet at this moment faces one of the greatest crisis in its history. We who have come here from other systems and other galaxies, have came by request, request from others in your system. This service we are happy and proud to give; we only are happy that we have the opportunity to serve you. As I stated, there is much to be accomplished among your people in order that we may bring about conditions of betterment upon your planet. We hope and pray each day that more and more of your people will see the light. It is only through these awakenings that your people can be prevented from bringing about their own destruction; it must come from the people.

Let's all hope and pray that more and more people will see the Light

Here is an interesting Ra quote:

Quote:50.8 Questioner: Can you tell me what the adept, after being able to hold the image for several minutes, does to affect planetary consciousness or affect positive polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. When the positive adept touches intelligent infinity from within, this is the most powerful of connections for it is the connection of the whole mind/body/spirit complex microcosm with the macrocosm. This connection enables the, shall we say, green-ray true color in time/space to manifest in your space/time. In green ray thoughts are beings. In your illusion this is normally not so.

The adepts then become living channels for love and light and are able to channel this radiance directly into the planetary web of energy nexi. The ritual will always end by the grounding of this energy in praise and thanksgiving and the release of this energy into the planetary whole.

I have to admit that I find Ra's use of language a little perplexing!! But what get from this quote is that we can affect the entire planetary consciousness through our meditations, by envisioning the "green ray." I have been doing meditations like this for several years now.

I have also seen on the web lately that more people are gathering in group meditations via the internet such as in this thread:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1772

I think the more of us that join in, the faster and easier our transition to fourth density will be.

Interesting subject….

I play Everquest online….some of the quests can be conflicting…but in reality its just pixels and algorithims dressed in a skin of artwork…not living creatures or beings. On the plus side, the interaction, conversation and participation in the Guild spans and bridges cultures from all over the world.

Is digitally rendered, make believe violence worse or better than the real life brutality of football, baseball, boxing or Ultimate Fighting? I have no answer to that. I guess its just part of this life. If we were not where we are supposed to be, we wouldn’t be doing what we are doing in the first place??...Thats a trip down the rabbit hole.

Honestly, I don’t feel that participating or enjoying the various media forms of this life is wrong. Its what is in your heart that counts…everything else is just window dressing.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I agree...Ra said "In truth, there is no right and wrong".

but I do think that we should pay attention to what our heart is saying. Like if your heart says "this feels kind of creepy to me, I'm not sure that I want to devote my precious time and energy to this " then maybe you would decide to do something different that would be more of the green-ray vibration. Something that feels joyful, or happy, or giving, or a number of feelings other than creepy.

And I'm just coming from my own personal experience, that both violence and pornography feel "creepy" and unpleasant to me.

Does that make sense?

(11-02-2010, 12:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]I have to admit, I enjoy watching a good "Ultimate Fighting" match. I don't really enjoy seeing people being hurt but I do find it very interesting to see two men who are vetted by years of experience in different styles of martial art facing off. Maybe it's a symptom of my XY chromosomes or maybe just an appreciation of the art and graceful majesty that the human body is capable of. But regardless, I have been known to watch many UFC matches. So- in a metaphysical sense, how am I participating here?

you are participating in it in whatever form you are clicking with it. if you enjoy the competition, you are participating in amplification of the competition aspect. if you are enjoying the brutality, you are enforcing it. combination of all these determines the final nature of your participation. impossible to dissect and analyze them each all. but, the overall feel/nature of the thing should be what it really is.

(11-02-2010, 12:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]s my the attention my mind/body/spirit complex is putting towards that match in any way perpetuating the level of violence in society?

you are amplifying, sharpening, strengthening that occurrence by your focus. just like anything else on this planet. as long as there are entities who want and pay their attention/focus to something, that thing will have a greater chance of happening where you are. or, if its happening, it will grow stronger. if it never happens where you are, it will happen somewhere else.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#47

(11-02-2010, 12:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]What if instead of the UFC match, there was a pornographic film playing? Would my attention be adding to the dis-empowerment of the female gender?

that depends on the nature of the film.

(11-02-2010, 12:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Right there, and right then, not later on.

always.

(11-02-2010, 12:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Does it make some difference, energetically or otherwise?

any action has time/space counterparts, and any time/space thought, feeling, occurrence has energetical counterparts.

(11-02-2010, 12:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Or is this just a case of metaphysical paranoia?

no, its the very fundamentals of existence. concentrating on something makes it more real. it is also basis of creating, co-creation, white magic, the phenomenon in higher densities. (think something, it happens instantly).

(11-02-2010, 05:15 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Richard,

I agree...Ra said "In truth, there is no right and wrong".

but I do think that we should pay attention to what our heart is saying. Like if your heart says "this feels kind of creepy to me, I'm not sure that I want to devote my precious time and energy to this " then maybe you would decide to do something different that would be more of the green-ray vibration. Something that feels joyful, or happy, or giving, or a number of feelings other than creepy.

And I'm just coming from my own personal experience, that both violence and pornography feel "creepy" and unpleasant to me.

Does that make sense?

Perfect sense, Shemaya …..In my case, I just can’t “play” an “evil or darkside” character. Have tried a few and ended up deleting every one of them…just feels wrong somehow. For whatever that is worth in this life of choices, lol.

Richard

(11-02-2010, 05:22 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2010, 05:15 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Richard,

I agree...Ra said "In truth, there is no right and wrong".

but I do think that we should pay attention to what our heart is saying. Like if your heart says "this feels kind of creepy to me, I'm not sure that I want to devote my precious time and energy to this " then maybe you would decide to do something different that would be more of the green-ray vibration. Something that feels joyful, or happy, or giving, or a number of feelings other than creepy.

And I'm just coming from my own personal experience, that both violence and pornography feel "creepy" and unpleasant to me.

Does that make sense?

Perfect sense, Shemaya …..In my case, I just can’t “play” an “evil or darkside” character. Have tried a few and ended up deleting every one of them…just feels wrong somehow. For whatever that is worth in this life of choices, lol.

Richard

I play online games too - my class is usually a warlock
I've played for years, though I don't class my character as evil or bad at all - I've realised that it defiantly brings out a very very competitive streak in me. The buzzzz of being highest dps and doing the most damage in a raid is quite addictive so I had decided to re-roll a healing shaman


I'm interested in thread on a deeper level too as my partner lives in a state of near constant fear about his health or the health of the family :-/
I see how he manifests symptoms in his body by putting so much energy into worrying and thinking about symptoms and has been hospitalised and medicated at his worst.
Its heavy catalyst for me as in the past I've tried many things to help him, including nothing at all to see if that helped him.
I'm a little at the end of my rope now as his 'thinking' is impacting on everyone in the house including the children

Hey everyone,

This is a really interesting train of thought. But I wonder how far we can tease this out? The general agreement I see arising here is that the response to my initial question is "no", and that regardless of circumstances, you as an individual are in part responsible for what you are seeing by virtue of the fact that you are seeing it, and therefore thinking about it. And because thoughts are not inert brain processes but in fact are tangible things on the reciprocal of physical reality (time/space), we bear a level of responsibility for them.

By this way of thinking, should we then also feel responsible when we enter a movie theater? Most films center around some sort of drama, and physical violence is of course often a part of that. What about going to see a play like 'The Merchant of Venice', put on by live actors? What about reading history books about past wars? All of these could arguably fall in to a similar category. We view or read these things and as our minds focus in on the screenplay, drama, or story in the book we become emotionally involved, intellectually stimulated and all the rest that comes with paying attention to such things. Is the general consensus still the same as regards these things?

I'm still not fully convinced of there needing to feel personally responsibility in these cases, nor even of the first examples- but am still quite interested to hear your thoughts. To those who are following this thread but not responding- please chip in!

L&L, ~L

(11-03-2010, 12:30 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]By this way of thinking, should we then also feel responsible when we enter a movie theater? Most films center around some sort of drama, and physical violence is of course often a part of that. What about going to see a play like 'The Merchant of Venice', put on by live actors? What about reading history books about past wars? All of these could arguably fall in to a similar category. We view or read these things and as our minds focus in on the screenplay, drama, or story in the book we become emotionally involved, intellectually stimulated and all the rest that comes with paying attention to such things. Is the general consensus still the same as regards these things?

I'm still not fully convinced of there needing to feel personally responsibility in these cases, nor even of the first examples- but am still quite interested to hear your thoughts. To those who are following this thread but not responding- please chip in!

L&L, ~L

any kind of consciousness focused/spent on anything, will make its reality a higher probability, or strengthen its presence if its present in current reality.

reading history books about the past wars, and visualising them, would make their memories sharper, and more likely to be remembered in time/space. not just for you. and, would probably act as a channel/portal for remanifesting the thoughts/feelings that were present at the time and situation that those wars had happened.

longing for anything in those history books, would make a push for that kind of situation to happen, in the manner of mindset/general feeling of the situation.

.........................

engaging in pvp combat in world of warcraft online game, would discharge any kind of emotion/desire that is present in the participating players, but on the other hand, strengthen the presence of such acts in the planetary mind.

Here you go:

Quote:Questioner: I am reminded of the statement—approximately—that if you had faith to move a mountain, the mountain would move. This seems to be approximately what you were saying. That if you are fully aware of the Law of One, you would be able to do these things. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The vibratory distortion of sound, faith, is perhaps one of the stumbling blocks between those of what we may call the infinite path and those of the finite proving/understanding.

You are precisely correct in your understanding of the congruency of faith and intelligent infinity; however, one is a spiritual term, the other more acceptable perhaps to the conceptual framework distortions of those who seek with measure and pen.

Questioner: Then if an individual is totally informed with respect to the Law of One and lives the Law of One, then such things as the building of the pyramids by direct mental effort would be commonplace. Is that what I am to understand?

Ra: I am Ra. You are incorrect in that there is a distinction between the individual power through the Law of One and the combined, or societal memory complex mind/body/spirit understanding of the Law of One.

In the first case only the one individual, purified of all flaws, could move a mountain. In the case of mass understanding of unity, each individual may contain an acceptable amount of distortion and yet the mass mind could move mountains. The progress is normally from the understanding which you now seek to a dimension of understanding which is governed by the laws of love, and which seeks the laws of light. Those who are vibrating with the Law of Light seek the Law of One. Those who vibrate with the Law of One seek the Law of Foreverness.

We cannot say what is beyond this dissolution of the unified self with all that there is, for we still seek to become all that there is, and still are we Ra. Thus our paths go onward.

If you were undistorted and balanced and were to be connected or know how to connect to Intelligent Infinity with a pureness you would be able to cause the power of your thought to "move" a mountain - a metaphor for manifesting something in real time instantaneously.

However; since it is a rarity - especially during these times - to be balanced or have your energy centers functioning in such a way to do so, you would find it is much more difficult without a group effort. Even then those of the group must be somewhat undistorted.

I'm sure if all of us on this forum or who follow the some of the teachings of the Law of One or anything that has to do with Unity and belief of thought were to get together and focus on a manifestation as least distorted as possible - this manifestation would come into being-ness.

even if an entity does not have a constant, active, open channel to intelligent infinity, the mechanics of existence still stands :

anything that is desired for, will increase the likelihood of that happening. anything that is concentrated on, increase its power.

(11-03-2010, 03:08 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]even if an entity does not have a constant, active, open channel to intelligent infinity, the mechanics of existence still stands :

anything that is desired for, will increase the likelihood of that happening. anything that is concentrated on, increase its power.

Of course, that's why I used the word instantaneous.

Lavazza Wrote:How much of what we focus on or think about manifests itself in the real world? Are there such things as private thoughts or actions? Are there such things as thoughts that have no impact on anyone else whatsoever?

There's a correlation between the strength of the thought and its physical manifestation. You could strongly attract something by focusing on the sensation of its manifestation intensely, or by holding the thought for an extended period of time. So maybe a tiny little one-off thought does almost nothing to move you in the direction of what you wish to experience. But an intense one-off does a bit. And an intense, focused and held thought or thoughts propel you towards it!

If you really think about it, (hah!) even mundane "everyday" thoughts, idle thoughts while commuting, or opinions thought to yourself, will move you in a certain direction. And if you're moving in any direction, you're having an impact on someone else, no matter how slight or twisted through time. Actually, I don't think you can be born onto this planet and not affect anyone else lol!

As for private thoughts and actions... well, many channeled messages, including Ra and Q'uo, say that you are never once alone in the creation. You always have your guides with you. So you can't say there's a such thing as a private action in that regard. When it comes to thought, the multidimensional aspects of yourself are always aware of your thought. For example, you could say that the earth, or Gaia, is always conscious of us. Our thoughts make up her sentience. So in that sense, the collective consciousness is always aware of what you're putting into it. I don't think that in a system where all thinking beings are part of one Creator, that there can be an unregistered or unanswered signal, or unheard thought in other words.

Lavazza Wrote:We know we are One. Through some mechanism we can't fully understand with science, we know that we have some connection to every other being that exists. A connection to every other thing that exists. This is profound and beautiful, but is the downside the eradication of what we understand to be privacy?

Privacy is only a concern in a places/times where there is some sort of fear... In places/times where thoughts are transparent, there is no fear. (Like 4D+ and so on) No fear = no need for privacy.

About the UFC match, I gather that you don't enjoy watching it for the violence. So, in a metaphysical way, you're not watching violence at all. You're enjoying a thought-form. And the thought-form that you interpret from the 3D event is a lot more refined. The basic elements of it that you resonate the most with are being amplified, while the others are being balanced in a unique way. I agree completely with unity100 when he says: "you are participating in it in whatever form..." Brilliantly worded, unity. It has to do with what you relate the event with. This is what Buddhism teaches, bringing subconscious thought processes to conscious light. If you equate pornography with oppression of the female, all pornography will be that to you, and you will participate in that when you watch it like that.

Richard Wrote:Perfect sense, Shemaya …..In my case, I just can’t “play” an “evil or darkside” character. Have tried a few and ended up deleting every one of them…just feels wrong somehow. For whatever that is worth in this life of choices, lol.

Well, from your character's perspective, what they're doing is the right path for them in their virtual spiritual development hahahaha. So can you enjoy the whole game as a sort of play to watch and gain experience through? (Cuz when you're playing, you're the co-Creator!) Or does the character mirror what's bad in you, and therefore you feel dirty?

Actually, speaking of plays...

Lavazza Wrote:What about going to see a play like 'The Merchant of Venice', put on by live actors?

Books came first, then plays, then movies, then video games... But "on the other side", they're all the same thing. Thought-forms? (might not be an entirely accurate word to ascribe to it) Either way, it's something with characters that plays out on the mental stage. Are you identified with it or are you an observer? I don't think you can co-create if you're identified with the media.

unity100 Wrote:engaging in pvp combat in world of warcraft online game, would discharge any kind of emotion/desire that is present in the participating players, but on the other hand, strengthen the presence of such acts in the planetary mind.

Do you think that's true for anyone at any level of consciousness? What if the PvPer views it as a play to observe and create simultaneously? Or at a lower level, a sport to compete in? Or a lower level, an experience had by a part of the ego? I think what you say holds true for the ego level, and possibly a small amount on the sport level.

Quote:In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

Wanted to post this because in my(our) mind this explains what we are talking about perfectly and concisely.

I was thinking about this thread and violence in the world and thought of the gladiator fights of the Roman Empire. How brutal and violent that was, and in that day it was entertainment. I'd like to believe that we've come a long way since then, but as I am writing the question is have we?

In some places in the world there are still brutal public executions. But now there are people and organizations that speak up and reject this kind of violence, and I believe as long as there is public international outcry about these practices they will eventually be eradicated. But it is our responsibility...because we are everything don't you think? And if no one is taking responsibility to denounce this stuff, how will it end?

I do think that is quite a few steps away from violent videos games and movies as entertainment, but as long as we pay money and fund it, we are supporting the creation and re-creation of the consciousness of violence. And I know it might sound a little self-righteous or judgemental, but when I think in my own conscience that I am everything, I ask myself is that who I want to be? Do I want that to continue in my world? Easy answer for me, no I do not want it to continue.

I think there are many shades and possible ways to experience what we are involved with, we may be in a role-playing game as a hero protecting and rescuing innocent victims, or we may be gleefully blowing our enemies heads off, so I would think, along the lines of what Aaron said, that we can experience the events with various levels of consciousness and emotions ranging from profound compassion to raging hatred.


At this point we have experienced so much darkness in our world , so I am ready to move on to a brighter and lighter future.

L&L

(11-03-2010, 09:10 PM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]

Lavazza Wrote:How much of what we focus on or think about manifests itself in the real world? Are there such things as private thoughts or actions? Are there such things as thoughts that have no impact on anyone else whatsoever?

There's a correlation between the strength of the thought and its physical manifestation. You could strongly attract something by focusing on the sensation of its manifestation intensely, or by holding the thought for an extended period of time. So maybe a tiny little one-off thought does almost nothing to move you in the direction of what you wish to experience. But an intense one-off does a bit. And an intense, focused and held thought or thoughts propel you towards it!

If you really think about it, (hah!) even mundane "everyday" thoughts, idle thoughts while commuting, or opinions thought to yourself, will move you in a certain direction. And if you're moving in any direction, you're having an impact on someone else, no matter how slight or twisted through time. Actually, I don't think you can be born onto this planet and not affect anyone else lol!

very precise and clear identification of the situation.

Quote:As for private thoughts and actions... well, many channeled messages, including Ra and Q'uo, say that you are never once alone in the creation. You always have your guides with you. So you can't say there's a such thing as a private action in that regard. When it comes to thought, the multidimensional aspects of yourself are always aware of your thought. For example, you could say that the earth, or Gaia, is always conscious of us. Our thoughts make up her sentience. So in that sense, the collective consciousness is always aware of what you're putting into it. I don't think that in a system where all thinking beings are part of one Creator, that there can be an unregistered or unanswered signal, or unheard thought in other words.

in addition to these, all thoughts and actions also affect the planetary mind. so, it affects all.

Quote:

unity100 Wrote:engaging in pvp combat in world of warcraft online game, would discharge any kind of emotion/desire that is present in the participating players, but on the other hand, strengthen the presence of such acts in the planetary mind.

Do you think that's true for anyone at any level of consciousness? What if the PvPer views it as a play to observe and create simultaneously? Or at a lower level, a sport to compete in? Or a lower level, an experience had by a part of the ego? I think what you say holds true for the ego level, and possibly a small amount on the sport level.

i dont think some aspects would differ with the level of the participant. high or low vibrationary level, additional participants would still increase the strength of the experience focus, and would make it attract more to itself. the reasons for coming to the experience may be different for all, but, when the focus is strengthened, the entities will choose that focus probably with a greater probability than any other experience to get their fix of whatever they are seeking.

(11-03-2010, 11:46 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that is quite a few steps away from violent videos games and movies as entertainment, but as long as we pay money and fund it, we are supporting the creation and re-creation of the consciousness of violence. And I know it might sound a little self-righteous or judgemental, but when I think in my own conscience that I am everything, I ask myself is that who I want to be? Do I want that to continue in my world? Easy answer for me, no I do not want it to continue.

I think there are many shades and possible ways to experience what we are involved with, we may be in a role-playing game as a hero protecting and rescuing innocent victims, or we may be gleefully blowing our enemies heads off, so I would think, along the lines of what Aaron said, that we can experience the events with various levels of consciousness and emotions ranging from profound compassion to raging hatred.

an entity which desires to be violent to any degree, will attempt to realize that experience in any way it can find, if it is not able to manifest it through violent video games.

if, there werent violent video games, the desires of the entities which were desiring various levels of violence due to any reason would strengthen the total desire for a resultant violence situation to occur.

by having these actions experienced and satisfied in time/space plane through games and whatnot, the desires of entities which want to experience violence, but not in levels that would necessitate actual manifestation of it, are being satisfied, and neturalized.

it goes for many other things probably, competitive sports etc.

each, in varying levels of physicality.

Thanks for this great dialog, everyone!

Aaron Wrote:About the UFC match, I gather that you don't enjoy watching it for the violence. So, in a metaphysical way, you're not watching violence at all. You're enjoying a thought-form. And the thought-form that you interpret from the 3D event is a lot more refined. The basic elements of it that you resonate the most with are being amplified, while the others are being balanced in a unique way

Wow, this really just sums it all up for me and removes all confusion! Aaron, your post resonated strongly. I appreciate your observation that something can be interpreted very differently by different people. The UFC match being the prime example- you are correct, I really am not interested in violence. It's really more about the art form of martial arts, how different disciplines play out against each other, how they react / interact... and et cetera. I guess this is also why I always found Bruce Lee so interesting. He wasn't about violence- he was about using the human form as an expression of divinity. Your pointing out that one will derive what one is seeking is so true. I think that's the key here for me- I was initially reluctant to believe that it could be true because I certainly didn't feel intuitively that I was contributing towards violence by my (metaphysical) participation in the seemingly violent act (watching the UFC match). In this light it makes much sense.

unity100 Wrote:you are participating in it in whatever form you are clicking with it. if you enjoy the competition, you are participating in amplification of the competition aspect. if you are enjoying the brutality, you are enforcing it. combination of all these determines the final nature of your participation. impossible to dissect and analyze them each all. but, the overall feel/nature of the thing should be what it really is.

unity100 Wrote:anything that is desired for, will increase the likelihood of that happening. anything that is concentrated on, increase its power.

Now with fuller understanding I can say I definitely agree! In the context of the movie film, the emotional drama or physical violence can be seen as the catalyst for the characters. Most people don't go to see that movie to view the catalyst but instead to experience / empathize with the characters as they react to that catalyst. Without the catalyst there aren't the reactions and hence a pretty boring film. And of course, there are exceptions to this as with everything.

In the case of the history books, it again comes down to how the entity reading it approaches the material. Is the goal to relive the glory of battle victory, or to somehow relive the battlefield? Or is the goal to learn from the mistakes in history to create a more peaceful present? Here we can see that two people can truly put in, and get out, a completely different metaphysical energetic experience.

Aaron Wrote:There's a correlation between the strength of the thought and its physical manifestation. You could strongly attract something by focusing on the sensation of its manifestation intensely, or by holding the thought for an extended period of time. So maybe a tiny little one-off thought does almost nothing to move you in the direction of what you wish to experience. But an intense one-off does a bit. And an intense, focused and held thought or thoughts propel you towards it! ... If you really think about it, (hah!) even mundane "everyday" thoughts, idle thoughts while commuting, or opinions thought to yourself, will move you in a certain direction. And if you're moving in any direction, you're having an impact on someone else, no matter how slight or twisted through time. Actually, I don't think you can be born onto this planet and not affect anyone else lol!

Thank you. Yes, and this also is in line with the dialog Don and Ra gives us, that LSD quoted above, regarding the entity who has faith to move a mountain. Each person does contribute some energy to the 'cause', whatever it is he or she was focusing on. But to see real physical results requires either much dedication and "work" towards that goal, or the collective efforts of many.

Aaron Wrote:Privacy is only a concern in a places/times where there is some sort of fear... In places/times where thoughts are transparent, there is no fear. (Like 4D+ and so on) No fear = no need for privacy.

Again, so true.

Shemaya Wrote:In some places in the world there are still brutal public executions. But now there are people and organizations that speak up and reject this kind of violence, and I believe as long as there is public international outcry about these practices they will eventually be eradicated. But it is our responsibility...because we are everything don't you think? And if no one is taking responsibility to denounce this stuff, how will it end?

Hey Shemaya, I completely agree. I think this is what putting fourth density together is all about. As the world gets smaller and smaller with an increased population and increase communications, the illusion of separate nation/states and separate "different" people becomes ever more obvious of it's illusory nature. As such we are responsible for whatever world we create for ourselves. So how will we create it? What will we allow to happen, etc? Also- thank you for your previous contributions to the thread, much appreciated by me.

Great conversation,all!
L&L ~L

except, an actual manifestation of an event, is not a thought form. its, an interaction.

unity100 Wrote:i dont think some aspects would differ with the level of the participant. high or low vibrationary level, additional participants would still increase the strength of the experience focus, and would make it attract more to itself. the reasons for coming to the experience may be different for all, but, when the focus is strengthened, the entities will choose that focus probably with a greater probability than any other experience to get their fix of whatever they are seeking.

I think I get what you're saying. If eight positive, 90 mixed/undecided, and two negative entities are all participating in an event like a PvP battleground, the strongest aspect of the event, when viewed from time/space, might be a lower vibrational one carried by the 90%. Then you say that the event would attract more lower vibrations due to the strength of the 90.

That could be true, but it also could not. At this point, there's not so many enlightened PvPers that we can get a group together and test this theory on. Besides, we'd need a reliable time/space observer like Q'uo to fill us in... lol But don't you think that those who are aware, those eight, carry a much stronger intent than the unpolarized 90? I don't think the darkness, as viewed from the time/space side, would stop the light from influencing the event. Darkness doesn't stop light, light pushes through darkness. We see it in the real world where only a relatively small amount of lightworkers can sway an entire planet towards positivity.

I think what you say might hold true if the percentages were changed, i.e. 90 negative PvPers and 10 positive ones. Then, from the time/space side, the darkness might be the most probable or first noticeable thing about the event.

I dunno... Unfortunately, there's no three dimensional way we can measure it haha.

Lavazza, you're of course welcome. Thank you for this very interesting thread!

If thoughts determines the outcome... And this is a net result of tribes of creators...

Then why are gifts like telekinesis not more common? Why doesn't everyone spontaneously heal from all disease? I assume every sick person thinks about being better again. Longs for it, thinks of it imagines it?

I think it's not thoughts that manifest reality. Which is fortunate for many life forms who have no thoughts. Including some unfortunate humans.

(11-04-2010, 01:11 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]If thoughts determines the outcome... And this is a net result of tribes of creators...

Then why are gifts like telekinesis not more common? Why doesn't everyone spontaneously heal from all disease? I assume every sick person thinks about being better again. Longs for it, thinks of it imagines it?

I think it's not thoughts that manifest reality. Which is fortunate for many life forms who have no thoughts. Including some unfortunate humans.

Do you think those people who long to get better are at a level where they're consciously co-creating their reality? Or do you think they limit themselves by believing in a three dimensional way that a medicine or time will heal them? Instead of embracing that power to change their experience, they're putting it outside themselves in some other perceived force.

If it's not thoughts that manifest reality, then what is it? Or do you mean a person's thoughts don't create their own experience, and instead something else does? In other words, that people don't create for themselves, but a higher power does.

Also, which life forms do you think have no thoughts?

There's aaaaaallll kinds of channeled material that goes into this subject in depth, because it's a huge subject. Q'uo, Bashar, and Kryon just to name a couple, and even some terrestrial sources! Continuing to discuss this subject might drag the thread off topic too, unless we can tie it back into the main thread subject.

(11-04-2010, 01:11 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]If thoughts determines the outcome... And this is a net result of tribes of creators...

Then why are gifts like telekinesis not more common? Why doesn't everyone spontaneously heal from all disease? I assume every sick person thinks about being better again. Longs for it, thinks of it imagines it?

because, societal mind is set and then conditioned by itself (societal biases) not to be able to pull out what you speak of from the depths of the subconscious mind.

a limitation.

had there been a society which worked on these collectively, things would be a lot more different. like how it will be in future in this planet's 4d.

of course, for anything to slip to conscious mind, it has to be approved by more infinite sources.

Quote:I think it's not thoughts that manifest reality. Which is fortunate for many life forms who have no thoughts. Including some unfortunate humans.

you are mistaken. all entities have exact replica of mind/body/spirit, at any level of their existence. i dont know what caused you to conclude that.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#3

even the 2d graduation doesnt occur with 'gaining' spirit. spirit is there. the entity, the significator of the entity, just becomes aware of its existence.

if there is a mind/body/spirit somewhere, there is an entity. if the entity is conscious of its own spirit, it is a 3d or higher entity.

as long as there is mind/body complex, there is thought.

(11-04-2010, 01:31 PM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2010, 01:11 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]If thoughts determines the outcome... And this is a net result of tribes of creators...

Then why are gifts like telekinesis not more common? Why doesn't everyone spontaneously heal from all disease? I assume every sick person thinks about being better again. Longs for it, thinks of it imagines it?

I think it's not thoughts that manifest reality. Which is fortunate for many life forms who have no thoughts. Including some unfortunate humans.

Do you think those people who long to get better are at a level where they're consciously co-creating their reality? Or do you think they limit themselves by believing in a three dimensional way that a medicine or time will heal them? Instead of embracing that power to change their experience, they're putting it outside themselves in some other perceived force.

I believe that possibly the biggest portion of humanity does not limit themselves to a three dimensional medicine system.. Lets be honest, the medicine system we're talking about exists pretty much only in the rich world in the recent past. Most of humanity is and has always been assisted by a wide variety of faith healing.

Modern medicine came about as a result of those systems not being perceived to be sufficient. If faith healing was better. Then the initial highly inefficient forms of medicine would not have been considered reliable enough to risk your life on.

Clearly our natural healing response was not enough we developed into a specific direction. Society is just the emergent property of our individual choices. We can't put the blame outside of ourselves.

I'm not saying there is nothing to this. I think the model of man we're working from here. Where intellectual conscious thoughts and feelings are equated to that part of us that truly does create our future. And it's just not so. Or everyone would be doing it. It would be the most obvious to try. It's our natural instinct to reason things into being.

In a way modern medicine is a surrender to this belief. The spirit of the organism is often not included or even recognized in the healing process.

And yet at the very least it clearly competes with the best forms of faith healing out there. In the sheer amount of suffering it alleviates.

Quote:If it's not thoughts that manifest reality, then what is it? Or do you mean a person's thoughts don't create their own experience, and instead something else does? In other words, that people don't create for themselves, but a higher power does.

Also, which life forms do you think have no thoughts?

Well since thoughts, like words are symbols, only on a deeper level. All non symbolic life forms have no thoughts. Yes they have consciousness and awareness, a will and creative power even. But they do not convert their stream of consciousness into an inner symbolic dialogue of thought. Most do not have the need. We happen to do it but it's not all life that does this. 1d and 2d lifeforms mostly wont... Yet they are creators too. The creator is in all things.

What manifests reality is what you might call the preconceptual self, or light body. It is made up of a series of primordial shapes or archetypes that are expressed into manifestation in your thoughts feelings and reality. This is a very primal version of self. It is recognized by most mystical traditions. And it is not to be mistaken by the auric body which is quite a different thing.

Quote:There's aaaaaallll kinds of channeled material that goes into this subject in depth, because it's a huge subject. Q'uo, Bashar, and Kryon just to name a couple, and even some terrestrial sources! Continuing to discuss this subject might drag the thread off topic too, unless we can tie it back into the main thread subject.

Yes, but I question the idea that what they speak about is truly rational thought or more what I think an analogy. By it's very nature all channeled material is conversion of symbolic and sometimes very abstract information into symbols.

And that relates to the topic, people who did telekinesis experiments with a psi wheel will have noticed that it's not about thinking the wheel in a certain direction. The best way to describe it is to just do it. As if you have a muscle somewhere that you're not aware of you sit in front of this thing and it usually just wobbles a bit, then sometimes you feel like you understand it, and as you do the analogy of "contracting the right muscle" the wheel moves.

The lesson here I think is that it's not our conscious thoughts that affect creation it's much more the underlying preconceptual self that determines those outcomes.

So in order to predict how our actions and thoughts influence the reality we live in we should ask how this correlates to that preconceptual self and it's movements.

If thoughts are fully correlated with the preconceptual self then yes it's logical to assume that thoughts influence reality. If the preconceptual self is out of sync with the thoughts then it has no effect.

My feel is that this preconceptual self influences our thought process. So if it is your nature to think that you will be fine money wise and it is no constriction then reality will mirror that, because its congruent with the preconceptual self. If however you read it in a book and continuously forcefeed yourself those thoughts it's not going to make a difference. Because in spite of the conditioning the preconceptual self doesn't identify with it.

True change comes from within and that lies deeper than our conceptual surface. So to take it full circle to Lavazza's comparison to enjoying seeing people fight. Then the thought of people fighting alone isn't going to create people fighting on the street. It also requires the underlying expectation for this to be true, or faith in that mechanism. It requires the preconceptual self to be in congruance.

Any magick school will tell you that in order to do magick there is a phase of doing the work or making the push. And then there is the phase of passively allowing the universe to respond with the requested result. You don't will a thing into being. You create the vacuum in which it naturally manifests, you create a space for it to occupy.

Lavazza and the likes of him is creating the space in public society where people will fight each other for fun and profit. It's not hurting anyone but the participants who also get a great deal of satisfaction and joy from it. Even though they get a lot of bruises their bodies are on the whole healthier than most of ours. Whether it's all good I don't know. But I don't think Lavazza has to worry about his hobby influencing society in such a way to become a far worse place.

Changing the patterns in the lightbody is long term work. It may take months for a change to manifest. But it will from then on have massive effects on our lives. That is what is generally recognized to be our reality generating ability.

So I'm wondering, since most traditions would put it there, if we should take the idea of the creative principle in our thoughts one step further to that preconceptual self that generates our stream of thoughts.

Is what your describing Ali - something like the difference between a belief and a though?

(11-04-2010, 01:11 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]If thoughts determines the outcome... And this is a net result of tribes of creators...

Then why are gifts like telekinesis not more common? Why doesn't everyone spontaneously heal from all disease? I assume every sick person thinks about being better again. Longs for it, thinks of it imagines it?

I think it's not thoughts that manifest reality. Which is fortunate for many life forms who have no thoughts. Including some unfortunate humans.

Belief Ali, that is why.

I've found that when I try to move something with my mind or thought there is always a doubt. Always.

To move something one most believe it will happen as much as I believe that my fingers are hitting the keys of this keyboard.

Like when you dream. You completely forget that you can't NOT do it so you end up doing it e.g. flying.

You see?

"Believe you can move a mountain and it shall move".

Not to mention the faith of pure and undistorted belief but one also must be balanced or undistorted enough to connect to Intelligent Infinity to use Intelligent Energy to move or cause something to move. E.g. activating and using the 'Light body' or in Ra's terms the Indigo Ray body to reform yourself in the illusion.

I think at this stage our thoughts have an impact on cohesive reality, but for the most part, not that great of an impact. Most of us aren't consciously aware enough to focus and maintain thought in the way I would see as being able to bring about such dramatic results. A great deal of seekers are learning to focus their will on a particular desired outcome and seeing the results from it, but when it comes to passing, everyday thoughts, I think for the most part there just isn't enough focus and clarity for them to have a massive impact.

Of course, if you find yourself following a constant train of thought a great deal of the time, even if it isn't a conscious consistency, this could probably be more impactful. If you are consistently pessimistic, you will draw negative things to you because the negative is all that you focus on. Likewise, a person that strives to have a pure mind that radiates love will likely find more and more opportunities to love and be loved coming into their lives. Therefore you have the opportunity to spready negativity or love based on your thoughts. This is something I struggle with daily...I've always been very high strung and worrisome.

Like I said, I think fleeting, private thoughts could still have SOME impact on our reality, just nothing to get paranoid over. If you get irked at someone and have the passing thought of punching them in the face, I don't think it's the end of the world, nor do I think their face will suddenly be bruised.

Of course, this is all my own opinion, which may or may not have any wisdom to it. Use at your discretion.

(11-04-2010, 07:26 PM)@ndy Wrote: [ -> ]Is what your describing Ali - something like the difference between a belief and a though?

Not exactly, a belief is only a persistent thought that we subscribe to, it's still conceptual, faith is more like the reason you believe in the persistent thought in the first place. You can't explain it. It's just something true, but you don't know why. (Preconceptual)

Take for example the belief "God shall provide". That's a concept, it presupposes a God, it also presupposes scarcity. It presupposes a lot of things. And because of this it doesn't guarantee abundance. But when you feel in your deepest of hearts that you are taken care of. You can then say God provides as an expression of that inner feeling. The belief itself isn't even relevant. You can doubt it and still remain well provided.

Take for example two kids of two different mothers. One kid has experienced a mother who is consistently present when he needs her. The other experienced a mother who for all kinds of reasons could not always be there. The first kid formed a model of the world where his needs are met. The second kid formed a model of the world where his needs are not always met. This is a subconscious assumption they made about the world. The first kid will always make the subconscious assumption in his core that the world provides for him. The second kid may not. Both may carry the belief that God provides for them. But the second kid may experience more setbacks in that belief.

The difference is that when you ask the kids, what do you believe? Both can tell you that, easily, it's their conceptual truth. But when you ask them things that hinge on that core faith the first kid will be more inclined to say that all will be well while the second kid can not say this as readily. If you ask them why that is they won't know with such certainty, they'll need to search their hearts to find the answer to their faith. Again because it's preconceptual, it's not there as thoughts.

The mistake I think I often see in people is that they assume their rational thoughts are what defines their behavior. With some luck they realize that their emotions have a lot to do with it too. But there's a core structure that lies before emotions and before rationality. That actually sets the parameters for emotions and rational thought. This structure has a huge impact on our behavior and it's largely subconscious.

So changing your life is not as easy as just repeating thoughts and beliefs. You need to engage your core self, in esoteric terms: reprogram the light body. Before any real change occurs.

Fortunately there's a dialog, the preconceptual self does listen to the conscious thoughts and to a degree does adopts some of our beliefs. But this is not automatic, and it's not quickly.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that
I understand better were your coming from.

Sooo were do the preconceptual thoughts come from?

For instance - I was raised Christian, by Christian parents, but believed in 'coming back' I'd tell my parents that we came back till we got things right. I also told them 'when I was here before' stuff.

Same with my daughter she told me, we come back as babies in nappies when you die.

These would be pre conceptual thoughts - that then get mashed up with life experience and things we are taught as we grow up I guess?

Yes, you're right but be careful, there is a catch, the notion of reincarnation is a concept. It is not the underlying reality or experience itself. You and your daughter took the preconceptual experience, converted it into concepts and then communicated it. But the concept of reincarnation has aquired a lot of information that was not there in the preconceptual awareness. So the thought is not what is, but what you describe it to be.

And fortunately our thoughts usually mirror the preconceptual pretty good, but that mirroring is subconscious and not totally accurate all the time. When you see a cow, you just call it a cow. You don't think about whether to call it a cow, you just do it. And this is where illusions come in. You see a cow, then wake up more and as more information flows in you realize it's your daughter in a cow suit because it's halloween.

Have you ever been so tired hungry or cold that your thoughts became sluggish or even partly stopped functioning? Do you remember that in spite of your thoughts being sluggish your experience was still as crystal clear as ever? That experience doesn't dim, you can be half asleep and still have clear awareness, your thoughts may be partly functioning, and you get dreamlike intrusions into that half awake-ness. It's not the IAM presence, the IAM presence is having those preconceptual experiences, the preconceptual is already severely distorted, preconceptual awareness still centers around you.

I'm pretty sure the buddhists have a name for this thing. I wish I had payed better attention