I have noticed in my studies that certain masters like Sri Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi died of cancer in very difficult situations. It's my understanding that the closer someone is to the Law of One, the healthier they will be because there are no distortions. These masters had the ability to be constantly samadhi (what Ra called penetration into intelligent infinity) and yet they developed cancer.
OK, I do not deny that the third density body will inevitably die, it's a natural process. But the problem is how. The heart stop should be the most normal. Cancer, on the other hand, is something that according to Ra has to do with anger not properly filtered through the mind. It's something very primitive so to speak. It doesn't seem to make sense for people without a trace of anger to die of cancer.
Another question is about lifespan. Ra said that by the end of the second cycle, entities had exceeded the lifespan of 900 years. OK, contemporary masters should not find it wise to live for centuries, although there are some reports about the Count of Saint Germain.
My guess is karma. Ra said that Jesus was only relieved of the karma of killing a person when he was on the cross, even though he was opened to intelligent infinity. Here is something I don't understand either. In the tradition of Yoga, those who attain the higher Samadhi have all their karma burned. If Jesus was open to intelligent infinity, I don't understand why he only had karma relieved on the cross. In such a high perception he should have forgiven himself earlier, wouldn't he?
It's said that a master can absorb karma from his disciples and that is why these masters died of cancer. But I don't know if that is possible.
Anyway, these are mysterious questions and I would like to know your opinion.
These individuals are serving as heat sinks for mother earth. They know how much torture she is under, so they volunteer to shoulder some of that load.
One consequence is disease but it does not affect their life span.
Intelligent infinity is indigo 6th chakra. Just opening gate is not being in it.
Yeshua had attained quite a high lvl in india. But his karma and dharma is separate.
It seems that often we are the ones keeping a hold of our karma. Jesus might have found it really difficult to forgive himself and having the impression that nothing he did would be good enough. Until the last moments when he just let everything go, melting in the influence of love and forgiving all, including himself.
Cancer is multifactorial. Ra always had to speak in general. There are viruses that causes cancer. It can also be caused by poisons. So maybe the "natural" cause of cancer is normally unprocessed anger, but not always.
There was a very well respected Buddhist monk (he asked people to never call him a master) in Taiwan who developed cancer 3 years before his death.
He had a round table talk with his follow seekers right before he passed away.
When they were discussing diseases and death, the audience wished him a healthy long life.
To which he lovingly joked with the audience that why would you wish me to prolong my stay in the world of suffering.
That talked left an unforgettable impression on me.
I think in a way these masters choose to face their karma and live through them while in this world instead of clearing/releasing them.
It's almost like wearing a watch to constantly reminding oneself of the busy day ahead while one could choose to forego the watch and go about the day freely. Since one has already planted the seed, why not see through it. That's my speculation anyways.
Also, the flip side of balancing and riding one's distortion might distort one's mind to seek perfection which might lead to obsession and fixation. That could be a reason too?
Are you certain that you are not simply overestimating their state of balance?
Regarding Jesus, the quote makes it sound like he forgave himself through the external reality of forgiving those who were to kill him, which implies he had not forgiven himself before that.
(09-25-2020, 11:16 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]These masters had the ability to be constantly samadhi (what Ra called penetration into intelligent infinity)
Apparently, they didnt do that, now, did they.
A lot of the Eastern religions are just what they are - religions. Someone adhering or 'mastering' the tenets of any religion is no guarantee of any spiritual advancement.
Especially not in cases where repression of the sentiments and desires are involved in any way.
(09-26-2020, 01:06 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of the Eastern religions are just what they are - religions. Someone adhering or 'mastering' the tenets of any religion is no guarantee of any spiritual advancement.
I don't know if you have any familiarity with the people cited, but they were not about mastering religious tenets. They were highly transcendent beings.
That aside, why did Carla, who was personally connected with Ra in some sense, suffer so much physical pain throughout her life? And why did Don do suffer his share as well?
Although there are various New Age and other teachings which aver that becoming more integrated in mind body and spirit is a "get out of disease and suffering free card," this appears not to be the case. Why? What is the value of disease and suffering?
From a multi-lifetime perspective, these are experiences to be experienced. "Are you not all things?" It's hard to pill to swallow, I do agree, but this seems to be a part of "loving the unloveable and accepting the unacceptable."
Another figure along these lines was Anandamayi Ma. She often suffered diseases of one kind or another and said that they came to her from God. "I don't chase you away, so why should I chase them away."
I guess that all I can really say about this (which, admittedly, ain't much) is that these folks made choices we don't understand. I seem to recall from the LOO that Carla's ill health was a pre-incarnative choice. The ways of spirit are mysterious, to be sure.
There is something subtle in suffering on long term any disease as the idea that you have to sit with it. It’s nearly like the term ‘sitting’ in Buddhism when it evokes meditation.
In the line of what Patrick said, Ra didn't say that anger was the only cause of cancer. I'm sure in certain cases the reasons are completely different. A very obvious example where anger is probably not a factor at all is the case of children who develop cancer.
I have no doubt that these spiritual teachers mentioned in the thread achieved great states of consciousness, but it's possible that some of these people suffered from the consequences of what Ra mentions here:
Quote:“Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”
Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.
The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.
The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.
All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
I feel that it's so easy to fall into this trap, though, so I don't mean to judge. Even if this is truly what happened to these spiritual teachers, much of spirituality is extremely confusing and paradoxical, so it's nothing but understandable that this would happen.
EDIT: This too might offer some clues as to what may have happened, if we consider that these teachers, through meditation and other practices, no doubt developed their will to great levels:
Quote:There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity.
This might be worth some consideration, too:
Quote:17.25 Questioner: How did Taras Bulba, Genghis Khan, and Rasputin get harvested prior to the harvest?
Ra: I am Ra. It is the right/privilege/duty of those opening consciously the gate to intelligent infinity to choose the manner of their leaving of the density.
Ra makes it sound very glamorous, and I'm not saying that it isn't, but from the perspective of an outside observer from third density, it probably doesn't feel like that at all. Rasputin was shot dead and his body then thrown into a river. According to Ra's words, this might have very well been of his own choosing. Perhaps so is cancer in the case of these spiritual teachers.
I understood Ra to mean that after death these guys choose how they exit third density. Positive people who self harvest like that normally choose to remain and help. The negatives choose to leave and go to the next density.
(09-28-2020, 06:41 AM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]I understood Ra to mean that after death these guys choose how they exit third density. Positive people who self harvest like that normally choose to remain and help. The negatives choose to leave and go to the next density.
I wondered if that was the intended meaning, but it seems weird to me that "exiting third density" would mean anything other than exiting the physical incarnation. I don't understand why the manner of the "leaving of the density" would matter at all, unless it was referring to how the physical incarnation ends.
In the case of Rasputin, dying in the way he did would have entailed a serious lack of control, which seems unlikely for a harvestable STS entity, and a black adept to boot. If Rasputin did indeed choose how he died, that would have just added to the notion of him being harvestable.
You could be right that Ra meant what you're saying, though.
There are stories bout Tibetan Rainbow Body, where the body disappears after death. Genghis Khan also does not seem to have a tomb with a body in it.
So perhaps Rasputtin's body wasn't actually dead either in the classic sense. History is often times veiled or incorrect.
It's just that Ra mentions the "leaving of the density" and not the leaving of the incarnation. That is why I understood that they do not have to wait the end of the cycle to be harvested. It's a bit like the current harvest, if you are harvestable you are not going to die right away, you will be harvested after your current incarnation ends.
(09-28-2020, 07:25 AM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]It's just that Ra mentions the "leaving of the density" and not the leaving of the incarnation. That is why I understood that they do not have to wait the end of the cycle to be harvested. It's a bit like the current harvest, if you are harvestable you are not going to die right away, you will be harvested after your current incarnation ends.
That seems correct.
There are times people can refuse harvest as well. Meaning intentionally lower their vibration so they can stay here. (for95% negs, they would need to increase their vibe)
Perhaps that is the issue of free will the Confederation is trying to resolve by sending social memory complexes here.
In astrology, one's mahadasha or 120 year grand cycle, is there before birth and after death.
Just because you have opened to Intelligent Infinity does not mean you can harvest yourself at any time in your life.
If there's still work to be done, you usually can't leave if you're of positive orientation.
I've gotten down, even after opening to II, and wanted to depart. But it was no go because I had VERY important work to do
and am still doing. It's helping 1000's of people.
(09-28-2020, 06:53 AM)Ray711 Wrote: [ -> ]In the case of Rasputin, dying in the way he did would have entailed a serious lack of control, which seems unlikely for a harvestable STS entity, and a black adept to boot. If Rasputin did indeed choose how he died, that would have just added to the notion of him being harvestable.
I'm not trying to split hairs, but as point of interest, according to testimony (as it comes down to us), he was lured to the home of an aristocrat on the pretext that the man wanted Rasputin to have sex with his wife. (Rasputin was very fond of such things for religious purposes.) But the poor old boy was shot multiple times and collapsed. However, when his assassins went back downstairs to make sure he was dead, they found that he had run off and they ran out into the Russian winter and chased him onto a frozen river, shooting at him again, as I recall. Rasputin fell through the ice and eventually succumbed to hypothermia. But there are photos of him dead and rigid with his arms above his head because he must have been pushing upwards on the river ice to create an airspace where he could breathe. (If you grow up in a place like Siberia, where he was from, you are taught how to maximize your chances of survival after falling through the ice by using tricks like that.)
Anyhow, guys like this try to live as long and as fully and as joyously as they can. (Rasputin could put away 5 bottles of wine per night, much to the dismay of his hosts.) Harvest, I expect, does not occur while living in an earthly body. It occurs in consultation with your spirit helpers, etc. after you have become accustomed to life post-Earth. Also, choosing the manner of your death is, when you think about it, of transient importance, isn't it?
PS: if I sound like a fan of Father Grigory, I surely do admire his spirited way of going through that incarnation, and yet, I think that if ever I actually do meet him in some form or other, we'll run out of things to talk about fairly quickly.
Actually, programming for a horrible death where you are betrayed seems like a pretty smart way to hone the blunt edge.
Quote:54.22 Questioner: Would a negatively oriented entity do anything like this? Could you give me an example?
Ra: I am Ra. A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health.
However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.
As for spiritual masters getting disease, I think there could be a ton of reasons as for why this might be 'programmed', but I believe in general that everyone needs an exit from incarnation and sometimes this will manifest through disease.
It could also be the difficulty they face in the material world. Even though the spiritual masters themselves embody love, the people around them may be distracted by the sudden "power" of being close to spiritual power and abuse their positions. I recall that Sri Ramakrishna had a cousin who was supposed to take care of him but used to abuse him even when he (Ramakrishna) was in the state of samadhi. All the physical an emotional pain must add up over time and take its toll on the spiritual master's physical vehicle. Such is life in 3rd density.
My belief is that we create our own reality, literally, moment by moment. That is why we are co-creators. As a person spiritually evolves, they go from allowing chance and random choices to induce polarization to becoming active in their creation of the opportunities and challenges.
This ultimately means that all disease, all hardship, all challenges, are created by the self with cooperation of other selves. This can either be a very freeing belief or a very infuriating one.
For these spiritual masters, the short answer is that the disease was an experience that they desired. Hatonn and Latwii repeat over and over again that you find what you seek, you attract what you desire. Who knows why they desired that experience. As Ra says we are hear to experience all things desired.
I think people also overestimate the effects of becoming an adept in 3rd density. Even the most perfected 3rd density being, is still a 3rd density being. They do not become superhuman and impervious to harm and poison and disease.
When it comes to Karma and Jesus. I don't think we will ever fully understand Karma in the 3rd density. But I do think that the mental action must be accompanied by physical action to be the most effective.
I think one thing to consider is that mastery is not something that you just achieve and you get to rest on your laurels, which I think is commonly the idea. The more you know better, the more you must do better. The path get narrower. I think often entities get infatuated with their own "mastery" (just using the language from the thread) and this allows an inroad for a gradual detuning, and if it isn't noticed by the one who has at some point achieved some sort of spiritual gravity, the karmic effects of using negative wisdom instead of positive wisdom can be detrimental. Consider how Ra says that FDR partially chose his physical limitations because he was not putting into practice the positive teachings that he came here to promote. Ra also says the further along you are on the path, the easier it is to "flip". Also it should be considered that there are two paths to mastery, and towards the end of either path the way that was chosen to get there is often confusing to those of us who don't possess the same amount of spiritual gravity. A highly negative entity can truly put on a great show for how spiritual and woke and benevolent they are, and it takes a finely honed edge of discernment to see through this kind of charade.
Carla was someone who was highly polarized positively but still suffered health effects most of her life. Much of this stemmed from her willing herself to death at age 12 and doing major damage to her kidneys. She had preincarnative restrictions on the use of her body that were hard for her to accept. She also ignored certain helpful suggestions from Ra that I believe would have probably helped long term health - for instance, she ignored Ra when they said she had an allergy to meat (she loved to eat meat and believed it was a source of physical strength). Ra also said that physical healing methods (like medication) were not helpful for her since she had such a strong spirit and lived on spiritual energy, but she still took the advice of third density medical doctors and took many medications in an attempt to aid her health.
I think re: cancer, anger is something that is very easy to suppress and overlook in the self, which is why Ra says cancer is a good example of something that can be easily healed with the mind if we put our attention upon it. I think many people suppress and ignore their anger in an attempt to be better people, which is why many entities who display many positive characteristics get cancer and die from it. They don't want to burden anyone else with their anger so they put it in a little box, and unfortunately that box eventually causes distortions in the body complex. If we stop using most catalyst that comes our way, our incarnations become almost useless and so distorted that it's necessary to scrap this one and start another.
One other thing to consider per Ra is that Ra says that all entities who open the gateway get to choose their manner of leaving. It's possible that one might choose a type of cancer as their means of exit for some specific reason conducive to their soul's growth.
Great post above Jade.
I will only add that anger can also be something ingrained and fragmented from childhood trauma, for example, that triggers us and we don't even know why, because that survival technique in childhood has cordoned off access to memory of trauma due to the inability of the mind to deal with it at that time. So there is also some deeper healing work to do for some.
Ramakrishna himself explained the meaning of his illness:
Quote:Meaning of His Illness
One evening Shrī Rāmakrishna was attended by his faithful servants Shashi (Rāmakrishnānanda) and Kālī (Abhedānanda), who were waiting upon him. The Bhagavān opened his mouth and inspired them by saying: “The illness of my body is caused by the sins of those who come and touch my feet. I purify the sinners by taking their sins upon myself and suffering for them. He who was Rāma, who was Krishna, Buddha, Christ, and Chaitanya, has now become Rāmakrishna. Blessed are those who know this truth. My Divine Mother has shown me that the photograph of this body will be kept upon altars and be worshipped in different houses as the pictures of other Avatāras are worshipped. My Divine Mother has also shown me that I shall have to come back again and that my next incarnation will be in the West.”
(10-03-2020, 01:56 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, programming for a horrible death where you are betrayed seems like a pretty smart way to hone the blunt edge.
Quote:54.22 Questioner: Would a negatively oriented entity do anything like this? Could you give me an example?
Ra: I am Ra. A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health.
However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.
As for spiritual masters getting disease, I think there could be a ton of reasons as for why this might be 'programmed', but I believe in general that everyone needs an exit from incarnation and sometimes this will manifest through disease.
This quote has acutally cleared something up for me. I've always wondered why people who have STS tendencies hardly ever seem to have health problems, whereas myself and other empaths/wanderers seem to have regular bursts of sinus pain or exhaustion or stomach cramps from being surrounded by negative or confused energies.
(10-25-2020, 06:08 AM)KaliSouth Wrote: [ -> ] (10-03-2020, 01:56 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, programming for a horrible death where you are betrayed seems like a pretty smart way to hone the blunt edge.
Quote:54.22 Questioner: Would a negatively oriented entity do anything like this? Could you give me an example?
Ra: I am Ra. A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health.
However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.
As for spiritual masters getting disease, I think there could be a ton of reasons as for why this might be 'programmed', but I believe in general that everyone needs an exit from incarnation and sometimes this will manifest through disease.
This quote has acutally cleared something up for me. I've always wondered why people who have STS tendencies hardly ever seem to have health problems, whereas myself and other empaths/wanderers seem to have regular bursts of sinus pain or exhaustion or stomach cramps from being surrounded by negative or confused energies.
That quote makes sense as well, because a STS would want ease of existence.