Bring4th

Okay so recently I read a small exerpt from Q'uo and it talked about how to deal with the negativie entity's psychic attacks, and how the positive and negative entities go about their path of learning.

http://www.llresearch.org/newsletters/is...994_2.aspx

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So after reading that, my question is... is it a service to self when one seeks the positive polarity in STO in order for personal growth, and the desire to be a better and stronger person? I mean, I want to make others happy and bring love into this world, and if someone asks for help I will want to help them, but part of me knows that I do this because I want to personally become better then I am, and more skilled then I am. And after reading the transcript, it made me wonder, that maybe I'm actually on the STS path and I don't even realize it.

Q'uo says,

Quote:Before we leave this topic we would focus once more upon the rich and fertile land of spiritual choice, the dark world within. Each of you gaze within. Do you feel magical? Do you feel powerful? If the answer comes too easily it is likely that there is that within you which would choose the easy way towards power; that is, the path of negativity, for each step upon the negative path seems from within to be positive. One wishes power so that one may help people. The way to help people is to give advice, give teaching, make sure that all is well by controlling various people and circumstances. All these things feel natural and good. Most beginning negative entities have no idea that they are embarking upon the path of negativity. Contrasting with this is the positive path where power is accrued by being the weakest, and true greatness is achieved by being the servant of others, where advice and teaching are given only when requested.

And after I read that, I thought about it.. and honestly, sometimes I DO feel magical, and sometimes I do feel powerful, but does that mean I'm becoming negatively oriented? It's like... I'm really conflicted with what I desire and want, because I just want to be a good person, but I also want to become adept too, even though I realize that I am all things, both negative and positive...
but eff
I'm confused.

...but maybe I'm over-analysing it and I just need to take a break from spiritual seeking or something.

I mean, Q'uo also says,

Quote:The positive path is full of shadows, of questions and doubts, of continual learning and balance. The choice for positivity is not the choice for simplicity of early lessons. The choice for negativity is a choice for simplicity of early lessons.

So... maybe this is just what my higher self wants for me right now...
or maybe I need to realize that I am both the positive AND negative oriented entity.

dfkjvhsdfv
I don't know.

(12-18-2010, 07:10 PM)NegaNova Wrote: [ -> ]...but maybe I'm over-analysing it and I just need to take a break from spiritual seeking or something.

This.

My honest opinion is that whenever doubt, fear, uncertainty plagues the mind and heart over these so called spiritual matters, it is best to stop taking in information from outside yourself for a time and get back in touch with yourself and your closest loved ones...just live a few days without focusing on this stuff and see what that does to your perspective.

It's such a tough question.

I have the same issue as you.

If I meditate because I love love, peace, and joy, is that positive or negative?

It would seem that achieving joy and love for myself is self-serving.

I don't know how to achieve joy and love for others.. I wouldn't know where to start. Sometimes people ask me for help in that department and I'm delighted to help.

But most of the time I'm inner focused and what motivates me is the feeling of peace, love, and joy.

I want to feel love for others not necessarily to serve them but because it feels good. Is this negative?

Serving others is such a tarpit as well because how do you even know if you're serving them? Is it service to just be a slave and do whatever they tell you, recognizing the god within them but ignoring the god within yourself?

Is it service to serve in the way you enjoy serving.. but that doesn't feel like service because that kind of service is so joyful and fun. I'm not sacrificing anything to serve in a way that I enjoy serving.

It's so confusing.

Everything in the LOO makes loads of sense to me except for STS and STO which I find utterly incomprehensible.

Since All is One, serving the self is serving the all. So often I've said to myself that I should serve myself sometimes and others at other times - both are God - but Ra says that this will negate my polarity and put me in the sinkhole of indifference.

The most rational and seemingly productive choice on Earth in Western society is to serve yourself maybe like 60% of the time and then to serve others in the rest. It's like the doctors who do pro bono work. They've dedicated their lives to healing, but they also charge for their healing so it's not like they are being completely selfless. You could say that doctors only charge to enable them to stay in business but this isn't true - all doctors are capable of enjoying the fruits of their labour and do enjoy them. Lots of doctors are motivated to both help people and enrich themselves, and through this love-of-self they are able to serve others.

You have incredibly selfish people who end up doing far more good for humanity than selfless. Bill Gates got his wealth by being very selfish, but now he has the power to help humanity more than anyone. Even when he was being selfish he wasn't particularly destructive - at the very least he did offer relatively useful products to people in exchange for their money.

Anyway I'm come to the conclusion that I am completely and utterly confused by the idea of STS and STO.

To me there is only one concept that makes sense - service to all. That means service to the Creator in all forms, including myself, including others. Doing both service to myself and serving others. I enjoy both forms of service. I don't have to subjugate others when I serve myself, but I do necessarily take away from time serving them.

For instance let's say I serve myself by going and playing golf and having fun and relaxing. I could be spending this time helping African children build wells. I'm not hurting anyone by playing golf and I'm not enslaving anyone - I don't particularly want to enslave anyone - but I'm also not helping.

Do STO people justify every self-serving action by saying that it will allow them to help others eventually? e.g. "I golf because it lets me recharge my batteries and help others more" <-- I find this unlikely. You golf because you enjoy it in itself, for it's own sake. To me, saying you golf to recharge your batteries to help others sounds like a rationalization more than anything.

So yeah.

And finally, there is always the lingering issue where, "If I choose to be service to others because Ra says I need polarity to be harvested, am I just doing it for myself because I want to be part of a world that is 100x more harmonious? Isn't that STS?"

Wow okay, those responses were extremely, extremely helpful. Thank you guys SO much!
I think that I DO need to take a few days to myself, because as I was reading the transcripts, I was thinking that perhaps I was relying too much on the information as being truth, and it's obviously having a negative effect on me (although maybe it is necessary) - and I'm not saying Q'uo has said anything wrong, but it's just a time where I need to use my own discernment and be by myself. This has helped growth.

And in addition, Yossarian, I found that really helpful because I feel those same things, and shows to me in perspective that obviously the intent of knowing these things is not to fall into feelings of doom and forcing myself to be of service all the time. We need time to ourselves and time for others, at an equal balance. I mean, service should not be something that we don't enjoy doing, it should be things that make us happy. This forum is full of really good friends and I'm very very thankful. Thank you guys!

Remember Q'uo is necessarily filtered through Carla and Carla has her own opinions. You can see this in the Q'uo transcripts as the expression of certain beliefs about transient occurrences, political situations, current events, hopes/fears, etc. That why you take what "resonates" and certainly not as an authority!

(12-18-2010, 07:44 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]If I meditate because I love love, peace, and joy, is that positive or negative?

It would seem that achieving joy and love for myself is self-serving.

it is both negative, and positive.

you meditate for those things, because you prefer those things. and if there is more people doing that, there will be abundance of those things.

its also rather similar with the indigo ray understanding. each entity is another member of the collective that is 'we', and betterment and happiness of each entity, makes each other entity in the collective, and the collective, happier.

(12-18-2010, 10:24 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2010, 07:44 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]If I meditate because I love love, peace, and joy, is that positive or negative?

It would seem that achieving joy and love for myself is self-serving.

it is both negative, and positive.

you meditate for those things, because you prefer those things. and if there is more people doing that, there will be abundance of those things.

its also rather similar with the indigo ray understanding. each entity is another member of the collective that is 'we', and betterment and happiness of each entity, makes each other entity in the collective, and the collective, happier.

That doesn't really jive with what Ra says

Ra says there are two polarities - STS and STO - and that each intention you make furthers your polarity down one road or the other.

(12-18-2010, 10:45 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2010, 10:24 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2010, 07:44 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]If I meditate because I love love, peace, and joy, is that positive or negative?

It would seem that achieving joy and love for myself is self-serving.

it is both negative, and positive.

you meditate for those things, because you prefer those things. and if there is more people doing that, there will be abundance of those things.

its also rather similar with the indigo ray understanding. each entity is another member of the collective that is 'we', and betterment and happiness of each entity, makes each other entity in the collective, and the collective, happier.

That doesn't really jive with what Ra says

Ra says there are two polarities - STS and STO - and that each intention you make furthers your polarity down one road or the other.

end, there remains no polarity when the 6th d starts ...

(12-18-2010, 11:17 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2010, 10:45 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2010, 10:24 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2010, 07:44 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]If I meditate because I love love, peace, and joy, is that positive or negative?

It would seem that achieving joy and love for myself is self-serving.

it is both negative, and positive.

you meditate for those things, because you prefer those things. and if there is more people doing that, there will be abundance of those things.

its also rather similar with the indigo ray understanding. each entity is another member of the collective that is 'we', and betterment and happiness of each entity, makes each other entity in the collective, and the collective, happier.

That doesn't really jive with what Ra says

Ra says there are two polarities - STS and STO - and that each intention you make furthers your polarity down one road or the other.

end, there remains no polarity when the 6th d starts ...

end or and?

Doesn't Ra say that the STO polarity remains? The STS polarity switching to STO in mid-6th density?

So the polarities still remain, just at a certain level of ability to appreciate light/love, everyone switches to STO.

Well in the end you have to trust your guidance in what resonates with you , i don't believe in absolute truths in a subjective universe.

Carla always professed her love for Christ, yet i don't resonate at all with his approach of dieing at the cross to show love.

I don't resonate at all to all burning sacrifices in the name of God/good.

If you sacrifice the self in the name of greater good you are basically saying that others should do the same, and how could this be ?

Everyone compromising for everyone is not what balance is about.

If you sacrifice the self you are in turn emanating the same vibration to the Whole, how is that wise ? You have a sacrificing whole in turn.

Broken shards coming together trying to be whole are not in fact a whole, they remain a mumble of broken shards.

That is what i feel.

And yes it is personal belief on how the universe works.

(12-19-2010, 12:09 AM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]end or and?

Doesn't Ra say that the STO polarity remains? The STS polarity switching to STO in mid-6th density?

So the polarities still remain, just at a certain level of ability to appreciate light/love, everyone switches to STO.

and.

they dont say sto polarity remains. they say the path of that which is not must seek the path that is. they say they are seeking WITHOUT polarity, they say positive/negative polarities become things of the past etc.

(12-19-2010, 07:08 PM)Experience You Wrote: [ -> ]Carla always professed her love for Christ, yet i don't resonate at all with his approach of dieing at the cross to show love.

I don't resonate at all to all burning sacrifices in the name of God/good.

If you sacrifice the self in the name of greater good you are basically saying that others should do the same, and how could this be ?

Everyone compromising for everyone is not what balance is about.

If you sacrifice the self you are in turn emanating the same vibration to the Whole, how is that wise ? You have a sacrificing whole in turn.

Broken shards coming together trying to be whole are not in fact a whole, they remain a mumble of broken shards.

That's shaking up some presuppositions!

I am not invalidating Her or her work. I resonate with some of the Ra book, that is why i am a user in this forum.
I don't know what Christ is to her exactly. Besides her love for him as an example of love.

But it is generally accepted that Christ willingly allowed himself be crucified, i commented on that.

I don't follow any dogmas that is all. I might identify with some channels but it never happened to be 100%.

I am not trying to convince anyone of the Truth simply because i don''t think there is an identifiable all absolute truth to follow (hello infinity), or in another words there is Only the Truth and in that everything.

NegaNova Wrote:is it a service to self when one seeks the positive polarity in STO in order for personal growth, and the desire to be a better and stronger person? I mean, I want to make others happy and bring love into this world, and if someone asks for help I will want to help them, but part of me knows that I do this because I want to personally become better then I am, and more skilled then I am. And after reading the transcript, it made me wonder, that maybe I'm actually on the STS path and I don't even realize it.

It's all about your final intentions. If you are only seeking a path in order for personal growth, then there is primarily service to self, with a smaller amount of service to others. But if you're seeking a spiritual path primarily for the betterment of all, with your own needs not forgotten, that is serving others first, with a smaller amount of service to self.

An important thing to remember, I think, is something that has been said in similar discussions on this forum. *nudges Monica* "While here, we're ALL of mixed polarity." The goal isn't to become service to self or service to others. It's to make a choice, to clear the fuzz out and focus on one thing, magnifying, intensifying, and refining that one thing.

So it's about balancing your service to self with your service to others. Even if you clear away the fuzz and focus on serving others, you're still, by necessity of third density life, going to be serving yourself some of the time. It's the same way with the other side as well. I think that's how the free will to be able to sway the choice to either side at any time during the incarnation is preserved.

Thank you for sharing that Q'uote. I find myself in complete agreement with it. And I think this is a lesson I'm just leaning at this point. Coming from nearly the same position as you, I can say that I agree with Turtle's recommendation to stop seeking outside the self for a bit. It's analogous to pulling back a bit for a better perspective. I've tried this in the past couple of days and found it incredibly beneficial. Meditation helps as well. Find a moment of silence and ask yourself, "What am I really living for right now? What have I been living for lately?" I found that I have been living for my own selfish desires lately, and compared to the clarity I experienced in my life a few months ago, this feels like hell! But it's just slightly more distorted... Also, during meditation, try asking yourself "Am I willing to let go of all my selfishness right now in order to see this planet transformed with love?" That's a way to question to the very core of yourself what your intentions are. You might be surprised at the response you get.

NegaNova Wrote:or maybe I need to realize that I am both the positive AND negative oriented entity.

You are. And right now, you're focusing on one tiny part of yourself that's magnifying and intensifying its free-will choice. The two paths of polarity are balanced like the yin yang. The STO lessons are harder in the beginning and easier in the end, and visa versa.

yossarian Wrote:If I meditate because I love love, peace, and joy, is that positive or negative?

It would seem that achieving joy and love for myself is self-serving.

I don't know how to achieve joy and love for others.. I wouldn't know where to start. Sometimes people ask me for help in that department and I'm delighted to help.

It's whatever you want it to be. (or like unity100 said, both). It's your intention that sets the focus that is beneficial to your soul. Are you meditating because you love peace and joy for yourself, or because you love to see others uplifted to a state of peace and joy?

I wouldn't know how to achieve joy and love for others either. That's because the I can't. The I only cares about itself. If you're seeking the positive path, don't include your concerns in the affairs of light and love to others. Keep it simple. One thing that I always used to do, that I didn't see the value of until I'm able to look back on it now is, when coming in contact with people, visualize them enjoying the peace of mind that you reside in. Visualize them "being enlightened one day". Visualize them partaking in sharing the love and light that you're enabling them to discover within this lifetime. Visualize them being empowered, discovering their own spirit. You won't do this because you stand to gain anything from it. You'll do it because you love them as yourself. As long as they remain in a state of confused suffering, there is a part of you that is suffering.

yossarian Wrote:I want to feel love for others not necessarily to serve them but because it feels good. Is this negative?

Serving others is such a tarpit as well because how do you even know if you're serving them? Is it service to just be a slave and do whatever they tell you, recognizing the god within them but ignoring the god within yourself?

Feeling love does feel good. That's because it's not an entity. It's a universal energy. It's not biased towards either side, accepting both. If you proceeded farther along that path, you would remove fuzz and focus on channeling that universal love into strengthening and empowering the self, with no regard for others. That's STS. I forget if it was Ra or Q'uo, but it was said that those on the path of STS feel the same sensations as those on the path of STO. It's the Creator that motivates both. This phrase from the Q'uote in the first post is relevant. "each step upon the negative path seems from within to be positive." (As is the whole thing, really. That session is pure gold.)

It is service to just be a slave. But it's unawakened service. You can see it in our population. It's when no choice has been made yet. The key is to keep it balanced, not ignoring the god within either them, or you. But choose to emphasize which one you think will bring about the better outcome.

yossarian Wrote:Since All is One, serving the self is serving the all. So often I've said to myself that I should serve myself sometimes and others at other times - both are God - but Ra says that this will negate my polarity and put me in the sinkhole of indifference.

Serving yourself sometimes won't negate your positive polarity. As you point out in your next paragraph, it's a necessity of life on this planet right now because of the way our societal system is set up. If enough people focus on serving others, that system will morph into something positive. It's the intention that counts. You can always find a way to turn a mandated selfish action into one that brings about an eventual positive outcome. Do you have to work for money to survive? Transform your workplace with love. Do you have to drive a car that consumes gas? Always be available to come to your friends' aid.

yossarian Wrote:You have incredibly selfish people who end up doing far more good for humanity than selfless. Bill Gates got his wealth by being very selfish

How do you know his intention was selfish?

yossarian Wrote:To me there is only one concept that makes sense - service to all. That means service to the Creator in all forms, including myself, including others. Doing both service to myself and serving others. I enjoy both forms of service. I don't have to subjugate others when I serve myself, but I do necessarily take away from time serving them.

That's the only thing that all entities are ever doing. But it's the perspective that changes and emphasizes one thing over the other as we move through the densities. You are serving the all right now, because you are the all. But the point of this lifetime in this density is to limit your viewpoint to the extreme in order that one single form of service be emphasized. The current human viewpoint can't contain both, and that's on purpose. I think you're right when you say that you don't have to subjugate others when you serve yourself. And the reverse holds true as well. Also, you don't have to be perfect all the time. There doesn't always have to be a positive reason or intention behind a seemingly STS act. You're allowed to make mistakes! You're allowed to taste both flavors before dipping in.

Experience You Wrote:Carla always professed her love for Christ, yet i don't resonate at all with his approach of dieing at the cross to show love.

I don't resonate at all to all burning sacrifices in the name of God/good.

If you sacrifice the self in the name of greater good you are basically saying that others should do the same, and how could this be ?

I never did resonate with the presentation of Jesus or the concept behind his life. But after I had a couple of experiences in meditative states where, after coming upon a concept or experience that was of the purest vibration of love, I saw Jesus' face flash in front of my eyes, and felt the vibration, I realized that the commonly portrayed Jesus is not like the true living entity, the Christ consciousness, at all.

What Jesus did wasn't wise, because the Christ consciousness that incarnates into Jesus is at the point of late 4th density, moving into 5th, where wisdom is learned. But the life that Jesus lived was the perfect message for the earth humans at that time. The Christ consciousness expressed its truest self through Jesus, providing a mirror for the collective consciousness of humanity at a crucial time. It was mutually beneficial, allowing the Christ consciousness a final note of pure love to be played in its symphony of 4th density, before moving onto the next chapter of their journey.

(12-19-2010, 09:48 PM)Experience You Wrote: [ -> ]But it is generally accepted that Christ willingly allowed himself be crucified, i commented on that.

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

(12-19-2010, 09:48 PM)Experience You Wrote: [ -> ]I don't follow any dogmas that is all. I might identify with some channels but it never happened to be 100%.

I am not trying to convince anyone of the Truth simply because i don''t think there is an identifiable all absolute truth to follow (hello infinity), or in another words there is Only the Truth and in that everything.

Actually, I was commending you for speaking up on a subject (Jesus' mission, love/wisdom etc.) that might be very volatile!

I realize you weren't invalidating Carla or the channeled works. You were expressing your opinion about decisions made by a Wanderer whose life mission has been grossly distorted by religions in his name. I think you made some very good points.

Q'uo has stated that Jesus chose to demonstrate near total love, in order to provide a model. If people strive to emulate near 100% STO, most won't get anywhere near that, but will make it farther than if they were emulating someone less polarized.

All of this is logical.

However, Ra also stated that Jesus lacked wisdom. Or did Jesus choose to disregard wisdom in favor of accomplishing a specific mission?

This is a very interesting topic worth exploring. I don't think it's judgmental to study Jesus' life and how he accomplished his mission, in order to learn from it. I surmise that there are probably multiple layers of potential lessons to be learned. Wanderers likely have different lessons to learn, from the same example, ie. how to balance love with wisdom.

Also, the entire 'sacrifice' has been grossly distorted, away from a sacrifice based on pure love and forgiveness, into a "died for your sins" distortion. The former would offer much more in the way of potential lessons and is likely more in alignment with Jesus' intentions, I think.

How many Christians think "Jesus demonstrated pure love, to teach me how to love" ? I see a lot more "Jesus demonstrated pure love, and I must accept his sacrifice or go to hell for all eternity...I am worthless and could never love like he did" which is a corruption and actually gets in the way of polarizing STO, because such love is attributed to God only and considered unattainable by humans...which is totally missing the point.

(12-20-2010, 02:13 AM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]It's whatever you want it to be. (or like unity100 said, both). It's your intention that sets the focus that is beneficial to your soul. Are you meditating because you love peace and joy for yourself, or because you love to see others uplifted to a state of peace and joy?

That's my whole problem with the idea of polarity.

My intention is clearly both. I want to be happy and joyful and feel universal love. I also want this for others. I guess I'm stuck in the sinkhole of indifference.

I have great difficulty choosing myself or others. It seems like a false dichotomy. I'd rather serve the Creator, serve the All, and that includes recognizing myself as the creator and others as the creator - everyone as the creator! This is the Law of One is it not?

So I make myself happy and, when I can, I make others happy too. And when I make others happy this tends to enhance my own happiness.

So many ancient meditators would go off alone and find enlightenment. Were they progressing through the densities in an STS fashion? They would abstain from doing harmful acts because they wanted to avoid accumulating karma. Is that STS or STO? Their focus was on themselves - they wanted freedom. And they were smart because they knew that enslaving others would hamper their freedom by incurring karma.

Quote:If you're seeking the positive path, don't include your concerns in the affairs of light and love to others.

I don't really understand what you mean by this.

Quote:Keep it simple. One thing that I always used to do, that I didn't see the value of until I'm able to look back on it now is, when coming in contact with people, visualize them enjoying the peace of mind that you reside in. Visualize them "being enlightened one day". Visualize them partaking in sharing the love and light that you're enabling them to discover within this lifetime. Visualize them being empowered, discovering their own spirit. You won't do this because you stand to gain anything from it. You'll do it because you love them as yourself. As long as they remain in a state of confused suffering, there is a part of you that is suffering.

This sounds like you aren't accepting them as you find them, but that you're projecting something on to them so that you can love them.

I used to do this but then I decided I was engaging in what psychologists call "splitting" where you avoid seeing the parts of a person that you don't like so that you can like/love them. It's inauthentic and disrespectful because you're refusing to see the real them.

It seems to me that true universal love can love people for their faults and in all their forms without projecting some enlightened persona on them or imagining them as the infinite spirit.

Quote:Feeling love does feel good. That's because it's not an entity. It's a universal energy. It's not biased towards either side, accepting both. If you proceeded farther along that path, you would remove fuzz and focus on channeling that universal love into strengthening and empowering the self, with no regard for others. That's STS.

But when I feel love, I also feel love when I come into contact with others. I do have regard for them. I love them.

Ra said that having an open heart is the path of STO and STS people have closed their green and blue rays no?

Quote: I forget if it was Ra or Q'uo, but it was said that those on the path of STS feel the same sensations as those on the path of STO. It's the Creator that motivates both. This phrase from the Q'uote in the first post is relevant. "each step upon the negative path seems from within to be positive." (As is the whole thing, really. That session is pure gold.)

So how do I figure out if i'm STS or STO if STS feels like it's positive?

Quote:How do you know [Gates] intention was selfish?

He said as much. His focus was purely on profit and dominating the market, treating business like a puzzle or game to be won at all costs.

Quote: The current human viewpoint can't contain both, and that's on purpose. I think you're right when you say that you don't have to subjugate others when you serve yourself. And the reverse holds true as well. Also, you don't have to be perfect all the time. There doesn't always have to be a positive reason or intention behind a seemingly STS act. You're allowed to make mistakes! You're allowed to taste both flavors before dipping in.

I don't understand why the human viewpoint can't contain both STS and STO? Do you just mean that if you don't emphasize one you'll never escape 3D because you won't have enough polarity power?

Anyway this thread has helped me to get a closer idea of what it means to be STS or STO I think.

My intuition basically says to focus on the self to a point and then focus on others. So like achieve a certain level of joy and peace and love, and then use those positive feelings to help others. I mean that's what I'm motivated to do. But that means that sometimes I have to STOP serving others in order to re-connect with the joy and peace and love if serving others interferes with that sometimes.

Sharing the surplus is how humans operate with respect to charity generally. The problem is that as soon as you get accustomed to a certain standard of living, then you are uncomfortable giving it away because it lowers your standard of living.

As soon as you experience a higher level of joy you don't want to step away from meditation haha.

A lot of Hindus and Buddhists say you should aim for full enlightenment before helping others. I wonder how many Buddhist meditation masters took the negative path but were just smart enough not to get in karmic entanglements.

I always thought that Ra said the path of acceptance and open blue and green chakras is the positive, while negative is the path of control and repression and closed green and blue chakras. This would lead to very different sensations for the meditator - closed green ray means no love does it not?

(12-20-2010, 06:10 AM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]That's my whole problem with the idea of polarity.

My intention is clearly both. I want to be happy and joyful and feel universal love. I also want this for others. I guess I'm stuck in the sinkhole of indifference.

I have great difficulty choosing myself or others. It seems like a false dichotomy. I'd rather serve the Creator, serve the All, and that includes recognizing myself as the creator and others as the creator - everyone as the creator! This is the Law of One is it not?

I don't think that's the sinkhold of indifference. It's a misconception that we must choose to help others at the exclusion of ourselves. In fact, Ra said that harvest is impossible if the entity doesn't love Self also!

It's not about choosing Self OR Others. It's a Choice to serve others (along with Self) vs serving others at the exclusion of Self.

In other words, STS isn't defined as neglecting Self. It's defined as consistently choosing Self at the exclusion of others, even going so far as to stomp on others to please Self, manipulating and controlling others, etc. Or serving Self only, with no regard for others.

That doesn't mean one must serve others with no regard for Self! Taken to an extreme, doing so would be martyrdom, which lacks wisdom.

That makes me feel a little better Monica. I do tend to agree with you, but I just don't see how our understanding is reflected by the terms STO and STS.

Shouldn't it be STS and STA - service to all?

(12-20-2010, 02:15 PM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]That makes me feel a little better Monica. I do tend to agree with you, but I just don't see how our understanding is reflected by the terms STO and STS.

Shouldn't it be STS and STA - service to all?

Apparently the terms weren't intended to imply exclusivity, because even the STS path isn't exclusively STS (though it is higher in percentage).

The choice isn't to choose STO at the exclusion of any self service whatsoever, but to choose to focus on others, at least slightly more than on Self; correspondingly the STS path is to focus on Self much more than on others.

Well, seeing how somebody already beat me to the Jesus example, I will just say that if feeling magical makes you STS, then Carla is STS, seeing how she pulls down her magical personality in order to practice white magic every single day. I am not stating that fact in a spiteful way, but I think this channeling needs to be taken in context.

I know from personal experience what Quo is talking about, or at least what I perceive them to be talking about. There have been moments when I realized that, due to my expanding awareness, a huge, raw power lay at my fingertips, and there was much I could do with that power. My heightened awareness made me feel superior to those around me. I could easily control them and break their weak minds. It was a delicious, intoxicating feeling, and I had to take serious inventory of my intentions to avoid being swept away by the power.

I think "feeling special" in this context is feeling that your uniqueness puts you above others- that you have something that they don't. In reality, every single soul has the potential to walk the path of the adept and pursue magical workings. Just because you can do something that is considered unusual doensn't mean you are among an elite class set apart from the rest. The adoption of the elite is purely a STS tactic. You are just learning at your own speed.

However, loving the self, experiencing the self, and growing in your relationship to the Creator is an unavoidably magical process. There is nothing wrong with rejoicing in the fact that you are a unique individual who has a gift to offer to the universe that no one else can match- as long as you realize it is the same for everyone else around you as well. I also do not see anything wrong with self discipline, either. Ra speaks extensively of the "disciplines of the personality." I think it is at the point where you narrow your vision to the point that life passes you by in pursuit of power that you are heading in the STS direction.

As a matter of fact, I also see nothing wrong with taking the STS path, and I fully agree with you that a person can vibrate between both paths at once. In the end, taking one or the other will greatly help in speeding up evolution, but I don't see anything wrong with experimenting with both sides and seeing what works for you. If we don't understand the dark side, know what it is about, and feel for ourselves what it offers, how can we make a fully informed decision? It is possible to understand both sides completely, realizing that both are necessary and equal. At that point, it is just a matter of preference. STO seems a heck of a lot easier to me...just go with the flow and realize we are all one to begin with, but I understand the STS way of thinking. If I wanted to, I feel that I could easily switch to that path in the blink of an eye. I just have no desire to.

As always, this is all just my opinion and may or may not have an ounce of wisdom within it. In the end, I'd say just go with your gut. Your inner self will not lie to you.

Hahaha, I like the deep discussion going on. I just wanted to post again and thank everyone for helping me! All your posts have been really helpful, and right now I feel much more clear.
On a side note, I realize this isn't pertaining to what we're talking about right now exactly, but I have found that this has also really helped:

Quote:...the positive path where power is accrued by being the weakest, and true greatness is achieved by being the servant of others, where advice and teaching are given only when requested.

after reading this, I have found myself interuptting my friends less, and I'm not as inclined to just blurt out my own opinion, etc. unless it's clear they want it, and I have actually felt quite peaceful and good about this.

---

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]Well, seeing how somebody already beat me to the Jesus example, I will just say that if feeling magical makes you STS, then Carla is STS, seeing how she pulls down her magical personality in order to practice white magic every single day. I am not stating that fact in a spiteful way, but I think this channeling needs to be taken in context.

I know from personal experience what Quo is talking about, or at least what I perceive them to be talking about. There have been moments when I realized that, due to my expanding awareness, a huge, raw power lay at my fingertips, and there was much I could do with that power. My heightened awareness made me feel superior to those around me. I could easily control them and break their weak minds. It was a delicious, intoxicating feeling, and I had to take serious inventory of my intentions to avoid being swept away by the power.

I think "feeling special" in this context is feeling that your uniqueness puts you above others- that you have something that they don't. In reality, every single soul has the potential to walk the path of the adept and pursue magical workings. Just because you can do something that is considered unusual doensn't mean you are among an elite class set apart from the rest. The adoption of the elite is purely a STS tactic. You are just learning at your own speed.

However, loving the self, experiencing the self, and growing in your relationship to the Creator is an unavoidably magical process. There is nothing wrong with rejoicing in the fact that you are a unique individual who has a gift to offer to the universe that no one else can match- as long as you realize it is the same for everyone else around you as well. I also do not see anything wrong with self discipline, either. Ra speaks extensively of the "disciplines of the personality." I think it is at the point where you narrow your vision to the point that life passes you by in pursuit of power that you are heading in the STS direction.

As a matter of fact, I also see nothing wrong with taking the STS path, and I fully agree with you that a person can vibrate between both paths at once. In the end, taking one or the other will greatly help in speeding up evolution, but I don't see anything wrong with experimenting with both sides and seeing what works for you. If we don't understand the dark side, know what it is about, and feel for ourselves what it offers, how can we make a fully informed decision? It is possible to understand both sides completely, realizing that both are necessary and equal. At that point, it is just a matter of preference. STO seems a heck of a lot easier to me...just go with the flow and realize we are all one to begin with, but I understand the STS way of thinking. If I wanted to, I feel that I could easily switch to that path in the blink of an eye. I just have no desire to.

As always, this is all just my opinion and may or may not have an ounce of wisdom within it. In the end, I'd say just go with your gut. Your inner self will not lie to you.

Actually yeah, I agree with you completely.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]There have been moments when I realized that, due to my expanding awareness, a huge, raw power lay at my fingertips, and there was much I could do with that power. My heightened awareness made me feel superior to those around me. I could easily control them and break their weak minds. It was a delicious, intoxicating feeling, and I had to take serious inventory of my intentions to avoid being swept away by the power.

I've never experienced that, so can't relate, but from your description it sounds like a powerful drug (which I have experienced), so it's commendable that you were able to navigate those urges and make the choice to not get swept away by them.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]I think "feeling special" in this context is feeling that your uniqueness puts you above others- that you have something that they don't. In reality, every single soul has the potential to walk the path of the adept and pursue magical workings. Just because you can do something that is considered unusual doensn't mean you are among an elite class set apart from the rest. The adoption of the elite is purely a STS tactic. You are just learning at your own speed.

However, loving the self, experiencing the self, and growing in your relationship to the Creator is an unavoidably magical process. There is nothing wrong with rejoicing in the fact that you are a unique individual who has a gift to offer to the universe that no one else can match- as long as you realize it is the same for everyone else around you as well.

Agreed.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]I think it is at the point where you narrow your vision to the point that life passes you by in pursuit of power that you are heading in the STS direction.

That may be an indicator, but not the only indicator.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]As a matter of fact, I also see nothing wrong with taking the STS path,

There is nothing 'wrong' with an entity who has chosen the STS path to pursue that path, since we know it's a valid path, but I would say that it's an entirely different situation for an entity who has chosen the STO path. To knowingly pursue STS actions, for an STS entity would be polarizing, but for an STO-oriented entity, would be depolarizing.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]and I fully agree with you that a person can vibrate between both paths at once.

I would say that we all vibrate between the 2 polarities, since no one is 100% in either direction. That's why the required percentages are different. To me, the term path indicates a chosen direction, ie. the STO path is > 51% STO, whereas the STS path is defined by >90% (? if I remember correctly) STS. Thus, one can't meet both criteria at the same time, so I don't think I would agree that it's possible to pursue both paths at the same time, though one certainly can flirt with both polarities at the same time.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]In the end, taking one or the other will greatly help in speeding up evolution,

Well we are in the density of Choice, so, respectfully, I think it's a great deal more than just speeding up evolution. It's actually the task we have before us (Wanderers' agendas notwithstanding).

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]but I don't see anything wrong with experimenting with both sides and seeing what works for you.

Again respectfully, I am a little confused by this statement. We're not talking about amusing ourselves with toying with different career choices or other such mundane matters. We're talking about actions that could have profound repercussions on other-selves. How can we just 'experiment' with the STS path, when doing so could result in pain and suffering for others?

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't understand the dark side, know what it is about, and feel for ourselves what it offers, how can we make a fully informed decision?

That's the purpose of veiled 3D reality. We've all had the past 75,000 or more years to dabble in both sides. My understanding is that the time for dabbling is over and it's time to make our Choice.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]It is possible to understand both sides completely, realizing that both are necessary and equal. At that point, it is just a matter of preference.

Well, it seems to be a bit more involved than just choosing our preferred flavor of ice cream! It takes a lot of dedication to choose either path, but especially the STS path. Staying on the fence is easy.

(12-20-2010, 07:17 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]STO seems a heck of a lot easier to me...just go with the flow and realize we are all one to begin with,

My understanding is that there's a great deal more to it than that. It involves opening our hearts and truly caring about other-selves.

At the risk of sounding not politically correct, I would say that the idea of anything goes can be taken too far, and in fact can be detrimental to one's evolution, by stalling, staying on the fence, thus delaying Choice.

yossarian Wrote:That's my whole problem with the idea of polarity.

My intention is clearly both. I want to be happy and joyful and feel universal love. I also want this for others. I guess I'm stuck in the sinkhole of indifference.

I have great difficulty choosing myself or others. It seems like a false dichotomy. I'd rather serve the Creator, serve the All, and that includes recognizing myself as the creator and others as the creator - everyone as the creator! This is the Law of One is it not?

So I make myself happy and, when I can, I make others happy too. And when I make others happy this tends to enhance my own happiness.

So many ancient meditators would go off alone and find enlightenment. Were they progressing through the densities in an STS fashion? They would abstain from doing harmful acts because they wanted to avoid accumulating karma. Is that STS or STO? Their focus was on themselves - they wanted freedom. And they were smart because they knew that enslaving others would hamper their freedom by incurring karma.

Wanting happiness and love for yourself and others is clearly STO in intent. An allusion of the STO human is usually made to the lightbulb. It's own filament must be working in order for it to shine. You have to love yourself enough for that love to have the ability to radiate outwards to others.

You're clearly not within the sinkhole of indifference because you're not indifferent to the situation. You have clear intent. It just might be hard to see yourself because of how thick the veil is.

I think the ancient masters going off alone is akin to pulling one's head back for a greater view. Isn't that the way Q'uo answers most questions, by giving a grander scope of context first? I think these people were simply following their inner guidance. And if you're speaking of people like the Buddha or Ghandi who are known to be STO, then I think we can assume this attaining of the clarity of self before moving on to helping others was done with an intent of STO.

yossarian Wrote:

Aaron Wrote:If you're seeking the positive path, don't include your concerns in the affairs of light and love to others.

I don't really understand what you mean by this.

Let me rephrase. The stories that are concocted in one's head by the ego (think drama) are detrimental to the flow of open love from the heart chakra. They distract and limit. Acknowledge and balance these in order to see yourself more clearly and be more able to radiate light and love to others.

I'm sorry if it wasn't/isn't really applicable to your situation, and that it wasn't really clear also. I'm in a better spot of mental clarity now.

yossarian Wrote:

Aaron Wrote:Keep it simple. One thing that I always used to do, that I didn't see the value of until I'm able to look back on it now is, when coming in contact with people, visualize them enjoying the peace of mind that you reside in. Visualize them "being enlightened one day". Visualize them partaking in sharing the love and light that you're enabling them to discover within this lifetime. Visualize them being empowered, discovering their own spirit. You won't do this because you stand to gain anything from it. You'll do it because you love them as yourself. As long as they remain in a state of confused suffering, there is a part of you that is suffering.

This sounds like you aren't accepting them as you find them, but that you're projecting something on to them so that you can love them.

I used to do this but then I decided I was engaging in what psychologists call "splitting" where you avoid seeing the parts of a person that you don't like so that you can like/love them. It's inauthentic and disrespectful because you're refusing to see the real them.

It seems to me that true universal love can love people for their faults and in all their forms without projecting some enlightened persona on them or imagining them as the infinite spirit.

The visualization of someone enjoying a higher state of consciousness is much less a projection of yourself onto them and much more an understanding of yourself AS them. It's a way to make subtle connections to the higher selves' of others in order to be able to understand (read: love) them more completely just as they are right now. Visuallization is a tool of the violet chakra, where all are seen as one.

I do agree with you that splitting, as you say, and projecting are inauthentic and disrespectful. That wasn't what I intended to describe.

yossarian Wrote:But when I feel love, I also feel love when I come into contact with others. I do have regard for them. I love them.

Ra said that having an open heart is the path of STO and STS people have closed their green and blue rays no?

I believe Ra said the path of negativity is one that rejects the validity of green ray energy as a part of the evolution of the entity. The blue ray stays open, or is opened rather, directly from the yellow ray. In that light, I'm a little confused just as you are when you point out my seeming fallacy. Perhaps the love of self is more of a distortion of self-appreciation coming from violet ray?

yossarian Wrote:So how do I figure out if i'm STS or STO if STS feels like it's positive?

I would almost have to say don't worry about it while incarnate. Just do what feels right and what brings you the most fulfillment. Trust your inner guidance and your own higher self above all. Q'uo also said that it's detrimental or a distraction to try to "take one's own spiritual temperature" or otherwise diagnose one's self or place on the path of spiritual evolution.

yossarian Wrote:

Aaron Wrote:How do you know [Gates] intention was selfish?

He said as much. His focus was purely on profit and dominating the market, treating business like a puzzle or game to be won at all costs.

Ok. I wasn't aware that he had stated his intentions early on. I always pictured him as a guy who wanted to connect people.

yossarian Wrote:

Aaron Wrote:The current human viewpoint can't contain both, and that's on purpose. I think you're right when you say that you don't have to subjugate others when you serve yourself. And the reverse holds true as well. Also, you don't have to be perfect all the time. There doesn't always have to be a positive reason or intention behind a seemingly STS act. You're allowed to make mistakes! You're allowed to taste both flavors before dipping in.

I don't understand why the human viewpoint can't contain both STS and STO? Do you just mean that if you don't emphasize one you'll never escape 3D because you won't have enough polarity power?

If the human viewpoint contained both STS and STO, there would be no value of incarnation as a human in order to gain the viewpoint that allows accelerated gain in polarity.

yossarian Wrote:Anyway this thread has helped me to get a closer idea of what it means to be STS or STO I think.

Yay!!

yossarian Wrote:My intuition basically says to focus on the self to a point and then focus on others. So like achieve a certain level of joy and peace and love, and then use those positive feelings to help others. I mean that's what I'm motivated to do. But that means that sometimes I have to STOP serving others in order to re-connect with the joy and peace and love if serving others interferes with that sometimes.

This life, for the positive entity, is full of bumping into walls in the dark. But I think that the information gained from those head bumps can be used to better navigate this veiled world.

Monica, I have tried several times now to respond to your comments and each time the computer has malfunctioned. This can only lead me to believe that my higher guidance is attempting to get me to evaluate the wisdom of my words, though I was not conveying anger or trying to be disagreeable.

I will only say that there is wisdom in your words which I'm sure would do me good to consider, though I also believe that it is possible to graduate on a purely intellectual standpoint, though it would be more difficult, especially on the STO path. Can one feel compassion objectively? Not really. But one could objectively put themselves in the mindset that would be open to the emotion of compassion. The choice could be made from an intellectual standpoint, but once it is made, it must be pursued with the heart. Or I could just be full of bollocks. I'm still learning, after all.

With regard to the concept of toying with both the STO and STS polarities i think the following excerpt is interesting

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0313.aspx

Quote:And it is at this level, at the level of choice of polarity, that the ones known as Ra were speaking when they said that all things are acceptable in the realm of thought and action as long as they do not infringe upon another. Clearly, at this moment, the one known as Ra was speaking of how to serve others and how to increase positive polarity. The one known as Ra, just as the one known as Hatonn, and the one known as Latwii, those who make up the principle of Q’uo, are those who come to this circle of seeking as representatives of the positive polarity. It is the positive polarity that we attempt to share through our conversations with you. And when dealing with positive polarity, the very first rule is the rule of free will. Called a law or a way, free will is primal. Your rights as a spiritual entity as well as a physical entity under the Law of One, positive polarity, end at the tip of your nose, the end of your fingers and your teeth.

In other words, it does not infringe upon others to think what you will. To say that which you think is an unpolarized act unless it comes under the discipline of service to others. Thusly, the one known as Ra was attempting to say that it is part of the exploration of who you are to think thoughts of 360 degrees of possibility. But to engage others without their request in such unpolarized thoughts is not consonant with the Law of One, [in its] service-to-others polarity.

If one attempts to live within the sixth-density understanding of total unity in a polarized, three-dimensional and third-density illusion such as you experience, there will be profound confusion. There will be an interruption in the smooth progression of your polarity. Within third density your lessons have to do with how to magnify the light by the way you think and by the way you live. Then, clearly, if others have not requested your opinion or your action, and you press your words or your actions upon them regardless, you are no longer respecting their free will. You are no longer seeing them as equal to yourself. Rather, you have diminished them. You have ceased respecting them.

The above would suggest that thoughts are just thoughts and are unpolarized, so think what you will, no harm done. The reference to "360 degrees of possibility" is usually code for consideration of both STO and STS concepts. Moving into the realm of actions such as speech; they can be unpolarized, STO, or STS depending on whether you are just saying what you think, helping but respectful of free will, or actively trying to infringe.

Attempting to do away with polarity by adopting a "sixth-density understanding of total unity" whilst living in 3rd density (whilst a noble a sentiment) is apparently ill advised.

The last bit however would suggest thoughts or "the way you think" are important since obviously they influence your actions. So i guess its a bit of a redundant argument to say you can think what you like and no harm done, but that of course depends on what you consider harm. Is switching over from STO to STS inclinations 'harm done'...both paths are valid. I suppose in the end its just a shame you've lost what otherwise would have been good company.

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]There have been moments when I realized that, due to my expanding awareness, a huge, raw power lay at my fingertips, and there was much I could do with that power. My heightened awareness made me feel superior to those around me. I could easily control them and break their weak minds. It was a delicious, intoxicating feeling, and I had to take serious inventory of my intentions to avoid being swept away by the power.

you should sit and analyze that situation, in order to see whether the delicious, intoxicating feeling was actually the higher connectivity you had with the rest of existence arond you, and the higher vibration.

and, the 'easily control them and break their minds' part a manifestation/twist of an orange blockage.

Quote:but I don't see anything wrong with experimenting with both sides and seeing what works for you.

i have seen someone experimenting with the 'other side' and after 10 years now he still havent tidied up his psychology and his orientation towards the society.

this is not something that one can 'experiment with'. what one needs to do, is to act according to his/her spiritual inclinations. else, things may flop.

Quote:Attempting to do away with polarity by adopting a "sixth-density understanding of total unity" whilst living in 3rd density (whilst a noble a sentiment) is apparently ill advised

spirit is what it is. it cannot be forced, coerced, made do things. doesnt matter whether the entity is put in 3d or in 1d. the strongest bias and nature, are those of the spirit.

if the spirit is of a certain density's nature at a given time, it will want and make its way to what it desires. regardless of any factors and influences coerced from outside, it will push its way through. it doesnt matter even if the conditions are set by the central logos of this creation. spirit will still push its way through.

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]Monica, I have tried several times now to respond to your comments and each time the computer has malfunctioned. This can only lead me to believe that my higher guidance is attempting to get me to evaluate the wisdom of my words, though I was not conveying anger or trying to be disagreeable.

Oh, I've had that happen! Now I copy the text whenever I'm typing a long post, and save it periodically. Too many times I've lost a great deal of text, representing a great deal of thought.

I agree that whenever that happens, usually it's to get our attention in some way!

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]I will only say that there is wisdom in your words which I'm sure would do me good to consider,

As always, keep what resonates and discard the rest!

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]though I also believe that it is possible to graduate on a purely intellectual standpoint,

I don't understand how that could reconcile with what Ra tells us about walking the Steps of Light, but I respect your beliefs.

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]though it would be more difficult, especially on the STO path. Can one feel compassion objectively? Not really. But one could objectively put themselves in the mindset that would be open to the emotion of compassion. The choice could be made from an intellectual standpoint,

I agree that, if the compassion isn't there, the first step to get it flowing is to make the choice to feel compassion.

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]but once it is made, it must be pursued with the heart.

I'm not sure I'm following you. If the heart is opened, then it is no longer purely intellectual.

(12-21-2010, 07:46 PM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]Or I could just be full of bollocks. I'm still learning, after all.

As we all are!

Monica, I see what you are saying. I suppose the only point I am trying to make is that the choice to polarize itself can be made intellectually, without an involved emotion (in my opinion, at least). I agree with you that the emotional component is necessary to actually begin the polarizing. Though it's funny, it was emotion that spurred me to post on this thread to begin with! Sometimes I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread. Seems like I'm just babbling now. Lol.

(12-22-2010, 08:38 AM)ahktu Wrote: [ -> ]Monica, I see what you are saying. I suppose the only point I am trying to make is that the choice to polarize itself can be made intellectually, without an involved emotion (in my opinion, at least).

"Heart" is the really the totality of self. However, if you have a particular personality bias that emphasizes feeling at the expense of thinking, then you tend to see emotional responses as the "heart" or indicative of truth. In that sense, we all tend to have a biased view on how one "should" be oriented towards the path to betterment or we focus on particular indicators that agree/resonate with how our experience was integrated.

Indeed it's quite ironic how the ego strongly identifies with its own purely psychological dispositions in order to find transcendence beyond ego (itself).

Yay, was able to update my old post!