Hi, it's my first post here at Bring4th.
I was re-reading the Law of One material regarding the archetypes and its relation to the tarot cards, when a couple of questions regarding tarot came into my mind:
1. Conventional history states that tarot first appeared around the 14th century, and that the first egyptian decks appeared after the statement of Court de Gébelin in 1781, saying that the tarot was a book that preserved egyptian wisdom. Does anyone know any fact or evidence that might help disproving these statements (tarot created around 14th century; egyptian decks appeared after 1781), in order to reinforce Ra's statement that they were one of the initial influences upon the creation of tarot in Egypt?
2. What was the tarot deck that Don, Carla and Jim used to formulate the questions to Ra?
My first question is specifically related to this part of Session 76:
Quote:76.6 Questioner: I am sorry that we have had such a long delay between the last session and this one. It couldn’t be helped I guess. Could you please tell me the origin of the tarot?
Ra: I am Ra. The origin of this system of study and divination is twofold: firstly, there is that influence which, coming in a distorted fashion from those who were priests attempting to teach the Law of One in Egypt, gave form to the understanding, if you will pardon the misnomer, which they had received. These forms were then made a regular portion of the learn/teachings of an initiate. The second influence is that of those entities in the lands you call Ur, Chaldea, and Mesopotamia who, from old, had received the, shall we say, data for which they called having to do with the heavens. Thusly we find two methods of divination being melded into one with uneven results; the, as you call it, astrology and the form being combined to suggest what you might call the correspondences which are typical of the distortions you may see as attempts to view archetypes.
76.7 Questioner: Then am I correct in assuming that the priests of Egypt, in attempting to convert knowledge that they had received initially from Ra into understandable symbology, constructed and initiated the concept of the tarot? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct with the addition of the Sumerian influence
I'm sorry if these are silly questions - I was planning on pursuing another line of thought before this one, but these questions are somewhat important to my current studies.
Thanks in advance and best regards!
Firstly, welcome to the forum
There's a few threads on here on the Tarot. The deck used by LL was similar to the one you can find
here.
Why do I believe L/L/Ra? It makes no logic not to. Among a host of other reasons, the Ra Materials details things which were sci-fi 30 years ago but have since been proven by science; so many things in fact, it is impossible to write off as speculation or other.
Descriptions
here. For anyone that's interested, the deck is
"The Brotherhood of Light (Egyptian) Tarot Cards" from the "Church of Light", done by C.C. Zain who derived them from the earlier Falconnier-Wegener
Egyptian deck.
On the back of the pack we have "These tarot cards are not playing cards; but the primitive symbolical pictograph writing through which Egyptian Initiates conveyed spiritual conceptions derived from a still more remote past..."
Compare and notice the similarities and differences between the BOL decks:
http://www.lawofone.info/images/
http://www.floating-world.org/Tarot.htm
http://www.green-door.narod.ru/zaintarot.html
In other words the link provided may not actually depict the deck used by L/L Research...
(01-05-2011, 11:27 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Compare and notice the similarities and differences between the BOL decks:
http://www.lawofone.info/images/
http://www.floating-world.org/Tarot.htm
http://www.green-door.narod.ru/zaintarot.html
In other words the link provided may not actually depict the deck used by L/L Research...
Thanks for posting zenmaster! I have had considerable difficulty understanding the tarot as described by Ra in the LOO. Maybe this will help my understanding. I pulled up your second link and that looks helpful at first glance:
I am a bit hesitant about teachings that stem from the occultic movement in the beginning of the 20th century, I find it somewhat "creepy"...just my own bias, but I feel some of the ascension teachings that came out of that were very ungrounded and missed the breadth and depth of spiritual evolution covered by L/L Research in the LOO. I will check it out though, because I would like a deeper understanding of archetypes and the Logos plan for creation.
Most historians of the subject do support Ra's other two claims though, that The major and minor arcana were originally separate.
First, the earliest surviving manuscripts of Tarot make a very clear distinction between the two. Second, one of the earliest tarots, the mamluk tarot from Istanbul, has only minor arcana.
Second, it is well accepted that astrology is Babylonian in origin. If one accepts the minor arcana are astrologically based then the minor arcana came from Babylon at least indirectly.
Historians do not really have a good theory on the origin or purpose of the major arcana, although there is no surviving evidence it is older than the middle ages.
There is one minor piece of evidence it could be egytptian though; The tau cross is generally accepted to be egyptian in origin, and
The tau cross made by the hand the heirophant (significator of the mind) and the body of the hanged man (significator of the body).
(01-06-2011, 03:30 PM)jivatman Wrote: [ -> ]If one accepts the minor arcana are astrologically based then the minor arcana came from Babylon at least indirectly.
The major arcana is also astrologically based, comprising the 10 planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury to Pluto (Earth not included)) and the 12 astrological signs
The minor arcana relates to the decanates of the signs, plus the Tree of Life
@lvxseeker
According to Ra, both astrology and the major arcana are part of the archetypal mind.
The collective unconscious, containing the racial memory and symbols of each culture and this planet, are some of the roots of mind.
Another is the planets.
The major arcana are a deep root, a basic structure which was created at the beginning of this galaxy.
They are 7 archetypes each of mind, body, and spirit, and lastly, the choice between good and evil.
The 7 archetypes are matrix, potentiator, catalyst, experience, significator, transformation, and great way.
Astrological symbolism in the archetypes was added later when some attempted to fuse the systems.
(01-06-2011, 12:39 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for posting zenmaster! I have had considerable difficulty understanding the tarot as described by Ra in the LOO. Maybe this will help my understanding. I pulled up your second link and that looks helpful at first glance:
The main thing was finding a deck that was similar. The deck is certainly the Brotherhood of Light, but I'm not sure we'll ever know which version was actually used in the readings. I have both of these:
The BOL deck:
http://www.green-door.narod.ru/zaintarot.html
The deck published by U.S. Games, as 'The Egyptian Tarot', in 1980:
http://www.floating-world.org/Tarot.htm
(01-06-2011, 12:39 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]I am a bit hesitant about teachings that stem from the occultic movement in the beginning of the 20th century, I find it somewhat "creepy"...just my own bias, but I feel some of the ascension teachings that came out of that were very ungrounded and missed the breadth and depth of spiritual evolution covered by L/L Research in the LOO.
Well you could look at it like archaeology. Remember, a lot of the terms used in the Ra material came out of that period, when Theosophy was getting started. For example: 'inner planes' and 'ectoplasm'.
(01-06-2011, 12:39 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]I will check it out though, because I would like a deeper understanding of archetypes and the Logos plan for creation.
Notice that the positions of strength and justice cards are reversed between the BOL modern decks (Rider-Waite).
One of the earliest accounts of the Egyptian 'magical' teachings is from
Iamblichus/os.
http://www.esotericarchives.com/oracle/iambl_th.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=Mf4LAAAAIAAJ
Iamblichus apparently inspired C.C. Zain:
http://www.luxlapis.co.za/at/iamblichus.htm .
Hi, first of all I'd like to thank all the great replies!
One of the links posted by zenmaster led me to Manly Palmer Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages. Here's an interesting excerpt from his book:
Quote:Through the Gypsies the Tarot cards may be traced back to the religious symbolism of the ancient Egyptians. In his remarkable work, The Gypsies, Samuel Roberts presents ample proof of their Egyptian origin. In one place he writes: "When Gypsies originally arrived in England is very uncertain. They are first noticed in our laws, by several statutes against them in the reign of Henry VIII.; in which they are described as 'an outlandish people, calling themselves Egyptians,--who do not profess any craft or trade, but go about in great numbers.'" A curious legend relates that after the destruction of the Serapeum in Alexandria, the large body of attendant priests banded themselves together to preserve the secrets of the rites of Serapis. Their descendants (Gypsies) carrying with them the most precious of the volumes saved from the burning library--the Book of Enoch, or Thoth (the Tarot)--became wanderers upon the face of the earth, remaining a people apart with an ancient language and a birthright of magic and mystery.
Here's a link to The Gypsies, by Samuel Roberts:
http://books.google.com.br/books?id=u7Q_...&q&f=false
The text quoted by Palmer Hall (about England's laws) is on page 27.
The best evidence of the origin of the Tarot is in a book soon to be published Archaeology of the Tarot.As the name suggest, it is archaic or ancient.
The evidence of the tarot's origin is discovered exactly where it should be found; in the unmistakable meaning of the symbology which piece together like the great puzzle that it is meant to be. When one understands the meaning behind the symbols and how they apply to their origin, it is then up to the reader to make the psychic connection, if able, and relate to the client the information that is being expressed intuitively.
Sound is vibratory and man is only recently becoming aware of how actual vibrations can affect genetic interaction and expression. It is said that the great mantras create vibrations that affect our very physical makeup. It is also said the the actual reading of the Emerald Tablets creates a similar vibration that enables the aquisition of understanding information that is stored in ways that we cannot comprehend.
The Tarot is like this. One cannot pick up the writings of Thoth and just read any words they want or replace words with words they choose to say themselves. The vibrations created only function when read the way they were designed to be read. And it is not through actual sound as much as through the meaning, because, obviously, one language will not emit the same soundwave as another. The vibrations created are not one way, they are multifaceted and based upon the field of consciousnesses that are being connected and shared. Likewise one cannot just pick up a tarot card and expect to partake in the true vibratory experience based upon one's own expression.
And the imagery and symbolic representation expressed in the proper designs is not only crucial to its success and function, but is also the means to discovering its true potential. When one understand the symbology one also sees how the pieces of the puzzle create the whole picture and message.
I actually didn't know this, but Ra did NOT convey the tarot/archetypes information to the Egyptians when Ra visited in person.
this information was transmitted afterwards, via telepathic impression:
Quote:89.16 Questioner: The way that I understand this, then, Ra gave these archetypical concepts to the priests of Egypt who then drew them upon the walls of one of the chambers of the Great Pyramid. What was the technique of transmission of this information to the priests? At this time was Ra walking the surface among the Egyptians, or was this done through some form of channeling?
Ra: I am Ra. This was done partially through old teachings and partially through visions.
89.17 Questioner: Then at this particular time Ra had long since vacated the planet as far as walking among the Egyptians. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes.
although, where it says "old teachings" some of this information may have been presaged or pre-laid during their physical visitation.
Yet, Ra has detailed explanations.
"mind, mind, mind" xxoo