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Quote:17.43 ...
The seniority by vibration is the preferential treatment, shall we say, which follows the ways of the Law of One which encourages harvestable individuals, each individual becoming aware of the time of harvest and the need on a self-level to bend mind/body/spirit towards the learn/teaching of these lessons, by giving them priority in order that an entity may have the best possible chance, shall we say, in succeeding in this attempt.
...

Quote:21.9 Questioner: At this time in our cycle, near the end, what percentage of the entities incarnating are making their own choices?
Ra: I am Ra. The approximate percentage is fifty-four percent.

It is interesting that even with all of the harvestable entities being able to 'cut the line', only 54 percent of incarnate entities have reached the point of simply being able to make their own choices, after 75,000 years on Earth, and, for a great many, an additional thousands of years on 3D Mars. So maybe 125,000+ years?

One would think that disharmonious circumstances would offer a lot of catalyst, due to dissatisfaction. However, that does not seem to be the case. On the contrary, there must indeed be a lot of satisfaction present, on the whole. I wonder what reinforces that?

Presumably, the lack of polarization was due to lack of opportunity of some kind. From the material, it seems that lack of sufficient leisure time has a significant stifling effect on evolution.
I think Earth, and all the blown up planets of people who came to Earth, is an example of how the local Logoi went too far in their suffering:timespan ratio. Before the veil there was little polarization because life was too easy, but here on Earth life seems to be too hard to produce enough polarization even with a massive influx of wanderers. Even Logoi aren't perfect.
(02-08-2011, 10:34 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]of the harvestable entities being able to 'cut the line', only 54 percent of incarnate entities have reached the point of simply being able to make their own choices, after 75,000 years on Earth, and, for a great many, an additional thousands of years on 3D Mars. So maybe 125,000+ years?

One would think that disharmonious circumstances would offer a lot of catalyst, due to dissatisfaction. However, that does not seem to be the case. On the contrary, there must indeed be a lot of satisfaction present, on the whole. I wonder what reinforces that?

Presumably, the lack of polarization was due to lack of opportunity of some kind. From the material, it seems that lack of sufficient leisure time has a significant stifling effect on evolution.

One would think that difficult catalyst and the resulting dissatisfaction, as you mention, would prove sufficient motivation to initiate the conscious journey of polarization. Ra mentions somewhere about the efficacy of the two-by-four applied to the head.

But challenging catalyst seems not to be enough. Ra refers to the state of unpolarization on this planet as the "sinkhole of indifference" - emphasis (I would add) on the word "indifference". (Evidenced by the section you quoted wherein only 54% of entities can even make their own choices regarding incarnations.)

Ra also mentions that, "...the mind/body/spirit complexes of both individual and societies are scattered throughout the spectrum instead of becoming able to grasp the needle, shall we say, and point the compass in one direction." http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...tion_id=23

So if we are hunting for causes of this lack of polarization and slow evolutionary development, I think that these two statements provide leads.

1) Indifference
2) Lack of collective direction, common purpose, unity of desire

Maybe it is that confusion reigns so magnificently on this planet - such a multiplicity of truths in contradiction and conflict - that entities become apathetic?

But that wouldn't explain the whole story either because there are those of fundamentalist religious understanding who don't feel confused by multiple sources of information but remain steadfast in their certainty of what they believe are clear, distinct categories of right and wrong.

And there is also the case of the pre-Luciferian (so to speak) societies which, Ra said, existed in "monochrome" in which all was predestined, and thus were not availed the intensive opportunities for polarization.

So in short I would say, I don't know.

(02-08-2011, 10:34 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Presumably, the lack of polarization was due to lack of opportunity of some kind. From the material, it seems that lack of sufficient leisure time has a significant stifling effect on evolution.

This line of thought seems potentially fruitful. Someone on the forums should be able to take this ball and run with it. My brain is on empty right now.

: ) GLB
(02-08-2011, 10:34 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]One would think that disharmonious circumstances would offer a lot of catalyst, due to dissatisfaction. However, that does not seem to be the case. On the contrary, there must indeed be a lot of satisfaction present, on the whole. I wonder what reinforces that?

its the faulty 'free will' mechanic that is being practiced - they first isolate the conscious entity from its subconscious, and its higher self or any similar source that it spiritually is close through roots of mind - and then expect them to randomly find their way by bumping their head into extreme circumstances. not to mention the delusion of 'accelerating' or 'encouraging' progress.

the truth is, you cannot accelerate or encourage progress. spirit will do, live what it will, and it is inevitable. sooner, or later it will follow the path it will, and this cannot be sped up or encouraged.

this ends up in pathetically low harvests. like the successful harvest of Ra being 5%.

Quote:Presumably, the lack of polarization was due to lack of opportunity of some kind. From the material, it seems that lack of sufficient leisure time has a significant stifling effect on evolution.

the problem is, spirits do not want to polarize. they want to follow their own path towards the octave end.

but, you bring a mechanic called 'polarization' and then enforce it on all entities, and then even claim that is free will.

think - any entity has a preferential balance at any given point, doesnt matter 3d or 6d. but, by enforcing particular balance models (even if broad, like positive/negative), you are forcing entities to mold themselves into particular balances.

a spirit that is forced into a particular balance, may not be spiritually compatible with it. and, small percent of entities which have been exceedingly successful in such circumstances, does not make that forced format successful - could be that those entities just were compatible with that balance. (actually that has to be as such).

so the entire evolution becomes a foot dragging, with entities naturally getting hung up at the point where they are forced into various balances. that being 3rd at this point.

............

but what's more important, existence and progress is in a sense, focuses taking up/acclimatizing to increasing vibrations in each given level. you are at 2th, you are colored by 3rd's vibrations, you increasingly synchronize with it, and eventually pass into 3rd vibration, and this goes on as such.

this existence is an infinite sea of vibrations. infinite refractions occur at any given point in existence. (leave aside this creation). all focus get acclimatized to the vibrations at the locale/vicinity they develop. moreover they develop spiritual biases through those, not to mention energy/vibration models. these include inflowing and outpouring energy streams.

then, a point comes in which you isolate the entity from most of these vibrations/energies, and demand that it stick to either broad balance x, or broad balance y.

...........

progress gets clogged at that point... leaving aside the fact that entity may not be desiring to imbalance itself into that particular balance spiritually, there is also the concern of the natural, established and developed inflowing and outpouring influences being severed/hampered.

basically the entity loses the rope its clinging and climbing. the flow that carries it upwards. it loses the rope it was clinging, and is expected to catch that rope again, or any other secondary rope that it may prefer, in the dark.

the main point is, the entity lost the rope it has clinged to, liked, and climbed up to this point. after being forced in desperation or through 'encouraging' measures, it may cling to a rope, but that rope may not be the model/path that it liked from before.

any entity, deep down, spiritually would be aware of these facts. no entity would like to lose the particular, preferred path they desired to follow from octave start to octave end. and hence, 'indifference' ensues, in which entities linger on in 3rd density on and on, just catering to their own self, self needs, and become busy with self, and even regressing back to orange behavior.

think - its just normal - that was the last density/ray, in which they were allowed to maintain and enjoy the preferred streams and models they had developed, without being cut off or veiled - hence, they keep going back, falling back to where they were allowed to live their spiritual path at that final point. none of them wants to lose it, and,

they are right in not wanting to lose it, EVEN if (hopefully) for finding it again.

and so we have the 'indifference' problem.

to exacerbate the problem, various 'encouraging' or 'accelerating' stuff are introduced to environment, leading up to all kinds of complications - from technology to excessive, exaggerated catalyst.

this is the situation in regard to the spirit and its manifestations.

.................

from the perspective of wisdom, it is beyond illogical to hamper a system like that, or cause disruption of any flow.
very interesting perspective unity100

Your interpretation comes out all over too - for instance in the focus of many masters on suffering and escape from suffering as motivation to polarize.

Escaping from suffering - escaping from 3rd - seems like such a bad motivation for progression. Using an aversive in general to motivate behaviour just intuitively seems distasteful. Yet it's the solution that many spiritual masters opt for.

People who pierce the veil often seem to take the attitude "anything to get out of here! A lesser form of suffering (change myself) to avoid a greater form of suffering (3D existence)"

This attitude is almost ubiquitous among people who have pierced the veil as well as saviours/masters who return.

This also illustrates a horrible pitfall that can easily cause an entity to get trapped in 3d - the desire for deep authenticity. Many people these days value authenticity over everything else, and whether they know it or not, they are valuing authenticity over the necessary polarization that will allow them to progress.

You also face the issue where (seemingly) the ONLY reason people come back to earth is out of compassion. The earth is obviously a very undesirable place to be if the only motivator for returning is compassion for those who are still there.

When you look at it from your perspective, there are really only 3 natural ways to escape:

1. piercing the veil
2. getting lucky by naturally preferring a polarized configuration
3. being dogmatically obedient to some guru, who advocates polarization, for a sufficiently long time to escape

None of these 3 options are attractive.

Piercing the veil is essentially the destruction of the illusion which begs the question why enter the illusion in the first place.

I would have to put myself in the #2 category.
(02-09-2011, 12:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]its the faulty 'free will' mechanic that is being practiced - they first isolate the conscious entity from its subconscious, and its higher self or any similar source that it spiritually is close through roots of mind - and then expect them to randomly find their way by bumping their head into extreme circumstances. not to mention the delusion of 'accelerating' or 'encouraging' progress.

the truth is, you cannot accelerate or encourage progress. spirit will do, live what it will, and it is inevitable. sooner, or later it will follow the path it will, and this cannot be sped up or encouraged.

Why are there so many reports of the Creator being pleased with this free will implementation and its proliferation throughout the universe? Ra mentions that of course but so many other sources do as well.

According to Ra this configuration is considered highly successful. You are essentially criticizing the veil itself.
(02-09-2011, 01:29 AM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]Why are there so many reports of the Creator being pleased with this free will implementation and its proliferation throughout the universe? Ra mentions that of course but so many other sources do as well.

According to Ra this configuration is considered highly successful. You are essentially criticizing the veil itself.

the 'reports' of the 'creator' being 'pleased' with this free will implementation and its proliferation, is something pertaining to a particular view/understanding.

the 'report' is in quotes, because what information/channeling we are receiving, are coming from sources who work with this planet, or this locale. in case you check around reliable channelings that state their origin, you will find they are rather close to this planet, in galactic scales.

this further gets reinforced by the fact that we are told nearby logoi tend to choose similar archetypes for mind/body/spirit. this also means that they tend to keep similar vibration models. therefore, ultimately, have similar understandings/perceptions in regard to existence. (as much as sublogoi can express their own free will of course). not surprising, since all existence is a collective of infinite vibrations refracting - without wonder, similar vibrations would be vibrating in same manifestation vicinity. or even if we put it in even further spiritual terms - birds of a feather tend to flock together, or like attracts the like. (actually its as such in every level of existence).

now, the 'pleased' is in quotes, because, due to above, the aims, desires, perspectives of the entities/collectives that evolve in any given logos and nearby logoi, would naturally reflect the vibrations/flavor their own locale. it is impossible to evolve in a locale, draw energy from that locale, synchronize with the vibrations in that locale and not think/feel in accordance with those vibrations. basically, its a perspective matter.

the 'creator' is in quotes, because, even after the above points, the word creator is still too large a definition. if it is the local logos, of course, it would be happy with the progress - since, things are progressing in its locale according to the plan it itself chose, and preferred. if, central logos of the galaxy is considered to be the creator being pleased in this context, it means that that particular sublogos has that kind of bias, and is preferring things that way. (that is even after the possibility of the reporter as in the above two points - the reporting sources - distorting/perceiving what is happening according to their own preferences).

if the creator is taken as the central logos of this universe, the scales would even get larger - distortions increase, differences increase, and so on. leave aside travel and sharing of manifestation in between galaxies, travel even among the galaxy seems to be rare if we look at what Ra says. even further, ra says about life in galaxies in this universe, "The progression is somewhat close to the same, asymptotically approaching congruency throughout infinity. The free choosing of what you would call galactic systems causes variations of an extremely minor nature from one of your galaxies to another."

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...35infinity

this is the extent of what can be surefire said about the commonality in between galaxies in this universe. further, we do not know. what we know is there can be differences in between choice of archetypes for mind/body/spirit.

even our galaxy has stars that do not employ veil, closer to the core of the galaxy - the central sun.

don interprets this as 'older' logoi not having discovered the polarity concept when galaxy was young, and Ra seems to agree - but, in another sense, it can be said that these logos are closer to a stronger logos with less distortion than themselves, and maybe it is not possible to employ such polarity/veil systems due to closeness to a purer logoic source/focus ?

since, even if there were a lot of old logoi around those points in galaxy, while the galaxy was young, new stars are born everywhere. including the parts closer to the galactic core. these new logoi would start employing the veil/polarity system if it was so grand. but, maybe they cant, or they dont prefer to do it.

or then again, maybe this system, since it is generally employed in places more distant to the galactic core, is something that can only happen as you get more distant from the logoic focus towards the void ...

..........

if we go even further and say the 'creator' in this context, is infinite intelligence, it all becomes incorrect :

there was mover/moved polarity in the last octave. we dont see employment of that concept around. instead, everything moves, and everything is moved, at the same time. there is no polarity of them.

so then, what does make this polarity concept of this octave ? another experiment/discovery that will be past once this octave is completed, just like mover/moved.

............

ra considers this configuration highly successful, yet majority of them are incarnated on this planet to help this planet bear graduates, and probably not explode/fail like the other ones, in addition to more than 60 million+ wanderers they are grouped with.

if it was so successful, why all the effort ....

.............

i started to take the 'laissez faire economy' concept that some of the societies on this planet have, and this 'polarity is great' concept that is being pitted, as similar :

both think that, if you just let things be, everything will 'somehow' work out in the end, by their own selves. both promise progress and well being, yet, a 'successful' harvest ends up with only 5% graduates. in a 'normal' harvest then, that would be probably 2-3% on average. quite interestingly, the economic system that is in play on this planet since a long time also only allows top 1 to 5% of the entities in it to allow full benefits of the planet and society. whereas, 85% or so of the population remain at the bottom. the numbers are absurdly and curiously similar.

and in addition, a good deal of wanderers or high vibration entities seem to have incarnated into the countries which employ this system. ( not to mention that they have ushered all the technology and the philosophy in, by coming in waves to give tech to planet in the wanderer wave Ra talks about ). especially if we consider the hippie movement, endless number of channelings, mediums, lightworkers and so on, in these countries.

and ironically, these entities are suffering from the nature of the system that is in these countries, getting hampered in their work through a lot of reasons, the least being lack of resources. they are ironically experiencing a lot of difficulties in the social/economic and technological environment they helped come into being.

.........

it seems to me that, infinite intelligence is basically teaching these entities, and with them, a lot of other local and remote sources, the limit to the free will concept, and when it goes too far, and what should be done, and what should not.
I can just see all the zillions of Ra showing up one day and saying, "G*d dammit, people, will you please just make up your f*cking minds? What do we have to do here??? Throw us a bone, will ya?!"

And the 3D crowd is thinking, "Now what?? Who are these creeps? Do we need any more trouble?"

Well, it's a good thing that time is just an illusion. Otherwise someplace might freeze over before Earth's crowd gets off the sofa.

I had fun writing the above; feel better, anyway, after a few snickers.

I LIKEd GLB's post for honesty, at least.

Either we are too deep in the mud to really know what's going on, or those higher densities aren't really much more advanced than 3rd. In that case, maybe we're all screwed. Huh

Lee Smile
(02-09-2011, 03:00 AM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]those higher densities aren't really much more advanced than 3rd.

The more I experiment with levels of consciousness the less comfortable I am trying to sort them in terms of more advanced/less advanced.

The higher densities don't really seem more advanced but rather more enjoyable.

Every adept on earth who really does their homework seems to have the potential to reach way up in the densities in a single earth incarnation. Like essentially skipping a few densities with a decade or two of meditation.

I've heard yogis say that even a year of meditation can free you from earth karma for good - not attain enlightenment but just get you out of the earth onto more harmonious planets.
(02-09-2011, 03:00 AM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]I can just see all the zillions of Ra showing up one day and saying, "G*d dammit, people, will you please just make up your f*cking minds? What do we have to do here??? Throw us a bone, will ya?!"

This happens every day. I'm been saying this to people for my entire life. (These days I'm a lot more comfortable with their suffering, having learned that there is really very little I can do if they're not interested in learning)
(02-08-2011, 11:39 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]So if we are hunting for causes of this lack of polarization and slow evolutionary development, I think that these two statements provide leads.

1) Indifference
2) Lack of collective direction, common purpose, unity of desire


I think we could augment that list with the fact living in a martially oriented social structure tends to keep people fixed on survival issues and doesn't leave them a lot of room to write poetry and contemplate the finer virtues.

With various ephemeral regional exceptions, Europe and Asia have been in constant conflict since the Copper Age. Primitive tribes tend to view outsiders as enemies and the more peaceful groups tend to succumb to their more warlike brethren.

These days in I live in the "most powerful country in the world" and, it seems to me, a whole lot more people are busier trying to eke out a living than are contemplating celestial communion.

Subject to such noise and fear, its maybe not so easy to orient the mind to working on any sort of a spiritual plane to the point where one is concerned about lessons involved in this or that potential incarnation. It even reached the point, evidently, where spiritual entropy & Negative influence along with the two factors listed above actually threatened to sink the ship of positive planetary polarization (according to the Space Opera narrative, so to say).
(02-09-2011, 04:40 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-08-2011, 11:39 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]So if we are hunting for causes of this lack of polarization and slow evolutionary development, I think that these two statements provide leads.

1) Indifference
2) Lack of collective direction, common purpose, unity of desire


I think we could augment that list with the fact living in a martially oriented social structure tends to keep people fixed on survival issues and doesn't leave them a lot of room to write poetry and contemplate the finer virtues.

With various ephemeral regional exceptions, Europe and Asia have been in constant conflict since the Copper Age. Primitive tribes tend to view outsiders as enemies and the more peaceful groups tend to succumb to their more warlike brethren.

These days in I live in the "most powerful country in the world" and, it seems to me, a whole lot more people are busier trying to eke out a living than are contemplating celestial communion.

Subject to such noise and fear, its maybe not so easy to orient the mind to working on any sort of a spiritual plane to the point where one is concerned about lessons involved in this or that potential incarnation. It even reached the point, evidently, where spiritual entropy & Negative influence along with the two factors listed above actually threatened to sink the ship of positive planetary polarization (according to the Space Opera narrative, so to say).

if everyone had free time right now would it lead to contemplation and poetry or mass lethargy, gluttony, indulgence, and mindless entertainment?
(02-09-2011, 04:40 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]I think we could augment that list with the fact living in a martially oriented social structure tends to keep people fixed on survival issues and doesn't leave them a lot of room to write poetry and contemplate the finer virtues.
...
Subject to such noise and fear, its maybe not so easy to orient the mind to working on any sort of a spiritual plane to the point where one is concerned about lessons involved in this or that potential incarnation. It even reached the point, evidently, where spiritual entropy & Negative influence along with the two factors listed above actually threatened to sink the ship of positive planetary polarization (according to the Space Opera narrative, so to say).

This makes me think of the AM radio talkers and cable TV channels devoted to noise and fear. Perhaps their existence indicates a certain desperation to hold back choosing of the positive. Gives me hope, anyway.
(02-09-2011, 05:27 AM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]if everyone had free time right now would it lead to contemplation and poetry or mass lethargy, gluttony, indulgence, and mindless entertainment?

Good question.

The well has been poisoned. Just breathing this air is to imbibe heavy, heavy doses of self gratifying, self justifying, self aggrandizing vibrations. It would require a monumental act of will to make the first choice you offer above.

On the other hand, isn't that one reason that so many Wanderers are trying to crowd in here at this time? In a context where conditions make polarization extremely challenging, choosing the positive route with genuine clarity most deeply aligns one's total being with Love & Light, right?

That's something of a compensation for all attendant ugliness, I suppose...to the extent that one can actually effect that deep a commitment.
(02-09-2011, 05:27 AM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]if everyone had free time right now would it lead to contemplation and poetry or mass lethargy, gluttony, indulgence, and mindless entertainment?

youth in a lot of countries in europe had much free time thanks to their socialist systems.

the result has been linux (some of the greatest contributor countries are such countries), music, art, and a lot of volunteers working in very dangerous places in africa etc for charity/united nations.

no. human psyche cannot stay idle for long. if the person feels his/her future is secure, s/he will eventually start trying to find things to do.
(02-09-2011, 02:40 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]yet, a 'successful' harvest ends up with only 5% graduates. in a 'normal' harvest then, that would be probably 2-3% on average.
I'm enjoying these interpretations, but have to question from where are you getting this figure of 5% graduates? You also mentioned it before... I remember reading a ~20% figure for Venus, presumably at the end of 75,000 years. I don't think they mentioned any minor-cycle harvest there.

Interestingly, the 150 so-far harvested entities from South America were of a 'monastic' culture and all part of the same group. So perhaps a culture that is better able to connect people with their spiritual natures may promote polarization to some extent.
(02-09-2011, 11:39 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-09-2011, 02:40 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]yet, a 'successful' harvest ends up with only 5% graduates. in a 'normal' harvest then, that would be probably 2-3% on average.
I'm enjoying these interpretations, but have to question from where are you getting this figure of 5% graduates? You also mentioned it before... I remember reading a ~20% figure for Venus, presumably at the end of 75,000 years. I don't think they mentioned any minor-cycle harvest there.

quite so. i apparently kept remembering the total number and dividing it into minor cycles. it comes up as a number slightly higher than 5%. this puts the situation in earth as much more critical, if the sum of 3 total cycles on venus can be said to be around 20% - it had 150 harvests in the first 2 cycles. but, it makes my numbers a bit misplaced, normal harvests then would be lower than 16-17%, maybe something like 12% or 10%. still a minor number.

however while researching it again, i have chanced upon something probably more important :

At question # 28 :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#28

Quote:89.28 Questioner: What was Ra’s average total population incarnate on Venus in third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We were a small population which dwelt upon what you would consider difficult conditions. Our harvest was approximately 6 million 500 thousand mind/body/spirit complexes. There were approximately 32 million mind/body/spirit complexes repeating third density elsewhere.

ra says that 32 million repeated 3rd density elsewhere, at the end of their harvest, total harvested being 6 million 500 thousand. meaning, 38 million total entities, 6,5 million havested, 32 million went to other planets. this encompasses all 3 cycles. now, if we move ahead to q # 39 :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#39

Quote:89.39 Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as the population of Venus was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with the harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves

this depicts the situation in 2nd cycle, at which 2 5d positive wanderers incarnated to the planet, then turned negative, and then set out to dominate, kill, enslave etc :

Quote:http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#31
89.31 Questioner: What techniques did the two negatively harvested entities use for negative polarization upon such a positively polarized planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases. Upon a planetary influence much unused to slaughter these entities were able to polarize by this means. Upon your third-density environment at the time of your experiencing such entities would merely be considered, shall we say, ruthless despots which waged the holy war.

these entities got harvested to negative, in 2nd cycle as such.

however note the important point :

total harvest of Ra was 6.5 million out of 38 million.

harvest at the end of 2nd cycle was 6 million out of 30 million.

Quote:We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%

there is a mere 500,000 difference in between the first and second cycles in which 6 million people were harvested, and end of all cycles in which 6,5 million total was harvested, even out of 38 million. (apparently 8 million more entities joined 3d in the 2nd cycle).

what has changed as we understand, was these 2 wanderers turning negative, and bringing the holy war/slaughter concepts to the planetary sphere.

im thinking that, the dynamics these entities created, had had created an environment in which vibrations greatly lessened due to slaughter and domination, and 'holy' war. not only reducing vibrations, but probably also creating an environment in which those wanting to continue positively would find it impossible to do due to the possibility of getting enslaved or killed.

not too dissimilar with the situation on this planet ...

Quote:Interestingly, the 150 so-far harvested entities from South America were of a 'monastic' culture and all part of the same group. So perhaps a culture that is better able to connect people with their spiritual natures may promote polarization to some extent.

im thinking more that harmony with the vibrations of the existing planet is much more important. harmony in between entities, planet, seems to lie at the core of the evolution mechanic. if, external elements are introduced into the environment, as transplants from the same density to the planet, or wanderers, the harmony gets thrown off. there are at the least archetypal differences in regard to mind/body/spirit.
(02-09-2011, 05:27 AM)yossarian Wrote: [ -> ]if everyone had free time right now would it lead to contemplation and poetry or mass lethargy, gluttony, indulgence, and mindless entertainment?

I think once the gluttony and indulgence were satisfied enough to get boring, yes. After all these orgies of blowing up, burning and starving, let's just have some chocolate, eh?
(02-09-2011, 01:04 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]The well has been poisoned. Just breathing this air is to imbibe heavy, heavy doses of self gratifying, self justifying, self aggrandizing vibrations. It would require a monumental act of will to make the first choice you offer above.

I'd be interested to hear the teen generation views on lifestyle choices. There is certainly a substantial surge in the art field, indicating an increase in the necessity of value of expression, or in other words, finding significance/meaning..rather than simply acquiring a job to provide. Though we do have many mindlessly marching towards college.

I'd agree with others in that I see the main problem being a lack of unity..lots of importance being placed on the self.
NY Times columnist David Brooks talked about young people while speaking at the Commonwealth Club of California on January 14, 2011. I transcribed the following from a video, so it may not be perfectly verbatim:

"If you want to feel good about the country, look at the people under 30, a committed community oriented generation. A friend at George Washington University said, 'I don't know where these kids find lepers, but they do and they read to them.' Social indicators that went wrong for decade after decade are now beginning to come down--domestic violence down, crime down, abortion rates down by 1/3, teenage pregnancy down by 1/3. This is an incredibly wholesome and responsible generation. They really are repairing this society."

http://pyr.commonwealthclub.org/blog/201...itics-more

Gives me hope where none was before.
(02-09-2011, 03:00 AM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]I can just see all the zillions of Ra showing up one day and saying, "G*d dammit, people, will you please just make up your f*cking minds? What do we have to do here??? Throw us a bone, will ya?!"

And the 3D crowd is thinking, "Now what?? Who are these creeps? Do we need any more trouble?"

Well, it's a good thing that time is just an illusion. Otherwise someplace might freeze over before Earth's crowd gets off the sofa.

Good one! I've been laughing since yesterday! BigSmile

(02-09-2011, 03:00 AM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]Either we are too deep in the mud to really know what's going on, or those higher densities aren't really much more advanced than 3rd. In that case, maybe we're all screwed. Huh

Lee Smile

I don't think that we are. It can be as well that "no-veil vs. heavy veil" is some kind of galactic polarisation that needs to be examined in the same way as the STS vs. STO needs to be examined on the individual level. After the Harvest the entities who didn't make it will proceed to another Earth where I am sure balance will be set between these two extremities. If not I think that our voices will weight heavily in this issue since we've been here and done that. (If we make the Harvest and can get out of here of course BigSmile)
(02-10-2011, 01:30 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]these entities got harvested to negative, in 2nd cycle as such.

however note the important point :

total harvest of Ra was 6.5 million out of 38 million.

harvest at the end of 2nd cycle was 6 million out of 30 million.

Quote:We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%

there is a mere 500,000 difference in between the first and second cycles in which 6 million people were harvested, and end of all cycles in which 6,5 million total was harvested, even out of 38 million. (apparently 8 million more entities joined 3d in the 2nd cycle).

what has changed as we understand, was these 2 wanderers turning negative, and bringing the holy war/slaughter concepts to the planetary sphere.

im thinking that, the dynamics these entities created, had had created an environment in which vibrations greatly lessened due to slaughter and domination, and 'holy' war. not only reducing vibrations, but probably also creating an environment in which those wanting to continue positively would find it impossible to do due to the possibility of getting enslaved or killed.

Well, it can also be perceived as that high numbers of harvested entities in the end of the 2nd cycle was seen as such a success compare to numbers in the 3rd cycle, that bellicosity implemented by those two Wanderers during the 2nd cycle, was learned to be an important tool that increases numbers of harvestable entities. Specially when after 25000 years when this bellicosity was as good as gone by the time of the 3rd and last harvest and numbers substantially decreased again the bellicosity could definitely be perceived as a success. Then comes poor Gaia! BigSmile
(02-10-2011, 09:14 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Well, it can also be perceived as that high numbers of harvested entities in the end of the 2nd cycle was seen as such a success compare to numbers in the 3rd cycle, that bellicosity implemented by those two Wanderers during the 2nd cycle, was learned to be an important tool that increases numbers of harvestable entities. Specially when after 25000 years when this bellicosity was as good as gone by the time of the 3rd and last harvest and numbers substantially decreased again the bellicosity could definitely be perceived as a success. Then comes poor Gaia! BigSmile

but 6 million was harvested in 1st, 500,000 in second and third.

it is not a large number. it is double the duration, but, only 5% of the initial duration. if we consider time, we can say that it averages to 2.5% of the initial rate ?

from 100 units to 2.5 units. it is nothing compared to 100.
(02-11-2011, 12:17 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]but 6 million was harvested in 1st, 500,000 in second and third.

it is not a large number. it is double the duration, but, only 5% of the initial duration. if we consider time, we can say that it averages to 2.5% of the initial rate ?

from 100 units to 2.5 units. it is nothing compared to 100.

Oh, that's so sad then... I was completly wrong in my assumption. I thought that 6 million was harvested in the end of the 2nd cycle.
(02-10-2011, 01:30 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:89.39 Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as the population of Venus was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with the harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

I find this passage rather interesting in that it seems to indicate that some entities are not moved by Love enough to polarize out of 3D, but seek the path of higher wisdom instead. Perhaps I'm just being lured in by nostalgia...that feels warm and fuzzy to me.

It's funny how those seeking wisdom can see any wisdom in polarizing against those seeking love, as it were. Maybe the answer to Rodney King's immortal query, "Why can't we all just get along?" is that it takes a good long time to assemble all the pieces skillfully: the giving, the taking, even Love & Wisdom? They really don't seem to synthesize.

For my part, I appreciate the quote about developing the energy centers as though they were clear sounding notes on a flute that the Creatrix may play as she would. Perhaps that's an organizational pattern superior to synthesis? It feels both better organized (through craft & skill) yet more dynamic as well.
(02-11-2011, 04:55 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-10-2011, 01:30 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote: There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

I find this passage rather interesting in that it seems to indicate that some entities are not moved by Love enough to polarize out of 3D, but seek the path of higher wisdom instead.

I don't know about that whole STS business anymore. Maybe I've been naive in my previous assumptions now that Unity100 just wrote that there was a harvest of 6 millions venusians in the first cycle and then there were "holy war" and slaughter and enslavement of people of Venus during the 2nd cycle. The resultat was that the harvest numbers decreased to only 500 000 entities during the followed cycles. I don't blame those Wanderers at all, but I really get sad thinking of these beautiful, compassionate and loving people getting slaughtered and enslaved because they felt too much love. Wanderers thought only of bringing wisdom oriented phylosophy to those venusians who felt nausea from the reigning overabundance love and compassion but instead it all went wrong. And still, there were no negative harvested entities despite the efforts of those Wanderers. And what was the resultat? Harvest numbers radicaly decreased and many of Ra: s brothers and sisters didn't make it.

Which brings it to my own history. After being placed and raised in a really negative STS environment I've learned to become STS myself. But boy oh boy, was I a poor student! Everything inside of me screamed in pain and it felt like razor blades, but I was too blind and broken inside to put all the pieces together. The veil is too thick. What got me to change the polarity? Love of course. I felt deep love for another self. And decided that I couldn't be that person anymore. I wanted to be a "better person" and slowly but surely began to work myself back to the polarity where I belong. Was it worth it? Was all that suffer and pain worth the inner knowing that even in a blind state I am STO? I don't know. Honestly I don't understand it. There is no wisdom applied here right now. I will have to ponder this more to see and destill that wisdom, but right now I don't think that so much suffer and pain caused by my blind actions both to myself and others self were worth that "free will" choice. I should ask Unity100 what he thinks. He seems so sure about that whole free will and bellicose nature thing. I am not. What do you think, unity?

But honestly, I just find it very very sad that venusians got disrupted in their development by bellicosity. There is one thing if that would be of benefit to them, but it wasn't. Of course we don't have all the facts here, only these numbers. But these numbers show us that Harvest numbers substanitally decreased. And maybe more of Ra: s sisters and brothers didn't make it because of that whole "free will" business. But then there is a question - what about those who "are not moved by Love enough to polarize out of 3D"?
(02-11-2011, 09:46 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know about that whole STS business anymore. Maybe I've been naive in my previous assumptions now that Unity100 just wrote that there was a harvest of 6 millions venusians in the first cycle and then there were "holy war" and slaughter and enslavement of people of Venus during the 2nd cycle. The resultat was that the harvest numbers decreased to only 500 000 entities during the followed cycles. I don't blame those Wanderers at all, but I really get sad thinking of these beautiful, compassionate and loving people getting slaughtered and enslaved because they felt too much love. Wanderers thought only of bringing wisdom oriented phylosophy to those venusians who felt nausea from the reigning overabundance love and compassion but instead it all went wrong. And still, there were no negative harvested entities despite the efforts of those Wanderers. And what was the resultat? Harvest numbers radicaly decreased and many of Ra: s brothers and sisters didn't make it.

Yes, those harvest numbers are interesting. It's often said that war and famine provides opportunities for polarization, but this supports my feeling that it only applies to a few, who then tend to polarize very strongly. For many, once the survival instinct of the body kicks in as main motivator, you practically function in 2nd density for the time being.

(02-11-2011, 09:46 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Which brings it to my own history. After being placed and raised in a really negative STS environment I've learned to become STS myself. But boy oh boy, was I a poor student! Everything inside of me screamed in pain and it felt like razor blades, but I was too blind and broken inside to put all the pieces together. The veil is too thick. What got me to change the polarity? Love of course. I felt deep love for another self. And decided that I couldn't be that person anymore. I wanted to be a "better person" and slowly but surely began to work myself back to the polarity where I belong. Was it worth it? Was all that suffer and pain worth the inner knowing that even in a blind state I am STO? I don't know. Honestly I don't understand it. There is no wisdom applied here right now. I will have to ponder this more to see and destill that wisdom, but right now I don't think that so much suffer and pain caused by my blind actions both to myself and others self were worth that "free will" choice. I should ask Unity100 what he thinks. He seems so sure about that whole free will and bellicose nature thing. I am not. What do you think, unity?

Well, I'm not unity, and I'm not really answering your question, but here's my two öres worth. Not understanding is fine, for now. Things do happen that are beyond normal human understanding. We can theorize our heads off, but sometimes I think it's better to say we don't know why a certain event happened. What we can say is that it did happen, and then ask what we can learn from it, right here, right now. Sometimes the lesson may be that I don't want whatever it was to ever have to happen again, so I will do all I can to prevent it, should the situation arise, in my life, or in anyone else's. When it looks like bad things are about to happen to someone else, you're a little more limited in ways of preventing it, but free will won't keep you from trying.

That's a slightly different slant on saying that it wasn't worth it, but basically the same thing.
(02-11-2011, 04:55 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny how those seeking wisdom can see any wisdom in polarizing against those seeking love, as it were.

Yes but they weren't seeking to polarize against love, they wanted to balance it with wisdom which is essential. Without knowing the details of the daily life there, it's hard to grasp the situation.

Complacency and pity in extremes are not wise attributes. Perhaps there were those taking advantage of the loving entities by living off their scraps so to speak, or abusing the system of harmony they had in place. Maybe there were entities addicted to substances, and instead of helping those entities the very loving ones supported their bad habits lol.

It's impossible to make a judgment without knowing the details.
And I don't think it can be said that there was any kind of war on Venus. Ra used the term holy war to relate a concept, but didn't state specifics. To me it sounds like the two entities were the only ones doing any kind of real harm, and so I don't think anything was done on a large scale.

Quote:The end of this was the graduation into fourth-density negative of the Wanderers, which had much power of personality, and some small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively.

If there was any kind of large participation in war, there would have been more than a small deepening of negativity and probably a larger number harvesting negatively. For all we know the enslavement that happened could have been the followers of the two entities. Like in a cult. And perhaps those that died were in the cult..perhaps suicide. Though the use of the word slaughter implies killing so there must have been some of that. Without the details it's hard to say. I wouldn't sweat it Ankh Smile
(02-11-2011, 09:46 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]After being placed and raised in a really negative STS environment I learned to become STS myself. But boy oh boy, was I a poor student! What got me to change the polarity? Love of course. I felt deep love for another self. And decided that I couldn't be that person anymore. I wanted to be a "better person" and slowly but surely began to work myself back to the polarity where I belong. Was it worth it? Was all that suffer and pain worth the inner knowing that even in a blind state I am STO? I don't know. Honestly I don't understand it. There is no wisdom applied here right now.
To me, this is more important than the rest of this thread. I can't get worked up about details of so long ago, although I quickly say that others may get something worthwhile out of it.

When Jesus walked the Earth, having been brought up a very observant Jew, he was snared by the elite because he did the awful thing of healing on the Sabbath. When they accused him, he calmly replied that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.

The elite had dedicated itself to the minutiae of Jewish law, just as some of us here are examining these historic details, trying to sort out the truth from the deception. Again, that's fine by me. It is critiquing the efforts of Ra, a somemplex higher than we are.

Ankh, we are living the 3rd density life where wisdom is in relatively short supply. I applaud your forthright struggle back to STO, and hope you can get comfortable in the lifestyle. IMO it will serve you and all on the planet well.
(02-11-2011, 09:46 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]And still, there were no negative harvested entities despite the efforts of those Wanderers. And what was the resultat? Harvest numbers radicaly decreased and many of Ra: s brothers and sisters didn't make it.

It just goes to show that trying to balance Love with Wisdom can sometimes lead to a big mess!

According to the narrative, those Wanderers did not intend to help others polarize negatively, nor did they intend to do so themselves. They were very surprised when they awoke from their 3D stupor and found themselves in 4D-.

Prior to incarnating they had intended to help the wisdom-oriented 3D beings polarize positively, but it didn't work out that way. Apparently, Harvest numbers decreased because the disruption and confusion caused by those two determined Wanders caused many others to fall back into that "sinkhole of indifference."

It illustrates the point that the wisdom crowd can be naive as well.


(02-11-2011, 09:46 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]I am STO? I don't know. Honestly I don't understand it. There is no wisdom applied here right now. I will have to ponder this more to see and destill that wisdom, but right now I don't think that so much suffer and pain caused by my blind actions both to myself and others self were worth that "free will" choice.

Would it help to remind you of your tag line, "Are you not all things?"

Being all things can lead to some confusion, evidently.
Before making any conclusions based on numbering in the Ra material I would draw your attention to the following

Quote:89.28
…Our harvest was approximately 6 million 500 thousand mind/body/spirit complexes. There were approximately 32 million mind/body/spirit complexes repeating third density elsewhere.
Quote:89.39
We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%
Quote:32.4
…Please continue to scan for errors having to do with numbering, as you call them, as this concept is foreign to us and we must translate, if you will, when using numbers. This is an on-going weakness of this contact due to the difference between our ways and yours. Your aid is appreciated.

These numbers appear close enough in proximity, use the key word harvest in both contexts, and the second instance is only roughly speaking. If you couple this with Ra’s difficulty with our numbering system I believe Ra was referring to their total harvest in both cases.

Why then the confusion? I believe its the result of a general question being coupled with a specific question.

Quote:89.39 Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as the population of Venus was doing as far as I can tell would need Wanderers in order to help with the harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves
The above can best be broken up into three questions

Q. When did the two wanderers incarnate? (specific)
A. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years.

Q. Why did Venus need wanderers? (general)
A. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized, and come when there is a call.

Q. What specifically called these two wanderers?
A. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves

I might be completely wrong but I think that a “small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively” would suggest these wanderers didn’t really influence anything in the remaining two cycles on Venus.
(02-20-2011, 05:55 AM)spero Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, of millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%.

this identifies the situation in the 2nd cycle. it is not a small lessening. the later 2 cycles amass to only 500,000 more.
i consider the first part a response to the specific question "Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?" Having answered the specific question Ra then was setting up background info on their total harvest number and the percentage therefore unpolarized in order to more approapriately broach why wanderers even felt a call to aid Venus. i think its a matter of interpretation, but the claim that only 500 thousand were harvested in the last 2 cycles is often stated as fact, which i feel is not quite justified solely on the above quotes.
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