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I was just checking out the latest channeling from Q'uo, and read this:


Quote:Now, what virtue is there in considering how to ascend while in the body? My friends, in terms of activity within the body, we do not find that this is a helpful concept for all people. The reason that we say this is that each of you won his or her way into the earth plane [at the time of] the harvest. Many there are who wished to have incarnations upon Planet Earth at this time, either to help raise the consciousness of Planet Earth with their love, or to do the work of third density in achieving a satisfactory balance between love and wisdom, love and power, or wisdom and power.

Consequently, having won your way into the physical, we find there is wisdom in choosing to stay with the incarnation until you have learned all you can and served all you are able and are truly ready to let go of third density and all of its gifts and challenges.

However, the one known as Y noted that the kind of ascension that she has seen discussed in the book The Masters of the Far East [1] seems to be a lot like living in fourth density, and we find that the heart of the question concerning ascension while in the physical body is keyed to this realization.

Life, as it passes by the individual consciousness, seems to be very solid. Yet, it is not. The flow of time and space has endless potential. For those who seek deeply enough into the present moment, that moment, every moment, comes alive. Beneath your feet, the floor opens up and you can dive into that present moment. Boundaries fall away and as the song which you heard before this meditation says, you can be unbound. [2]

Some attempt to approach this state of consciousness from the standpoint of clearing the body—eating well, exercising well, and so forth. Others seek to reach that state by going more and more into meditation, slowing down what this instrument sometimes calls “the monkey mind” and allowing spaciousness to flood in to the mind that is too concerned with the ten thousand things. [3]

Others approach the problem of lifting consciousness from its moorings in third density by reading and attempting to assimilate the gathered wisdom of all religions and all cultures, all systems of lore and myth. And although the scholar’s way often stays within the head, rattling around, filling the mind’s closets and shelves with too much information, the wisdom seeps down into the heart of the scholar and pulls him forward. There are as many ways to approach the evolution of mind/body and spirit as there are people.

The key to this work is this: the consciousness that you share with all others who are self-aware is one. It is the consciousness of the Creator. It is the consciousness of complete and unconditional love. [It is] not love as known to the poets who speak of romance. [It is] not the love of brother for brother. [It is] not the love that is sentimentalized in valentines tied up with ribbons, gifted with pretty gems. This is a love that creates and destroys. This is a state of aliveness and endless potential.

The vibration of love is the vibration upon which the planets turn in their courses, the suns rotate in the galaxies ever so slowly to your eyes [as they] climb the heavens. You are a spark of that one original Thought. Advancement in any density can be measured by how near the vibration of your consciousness matches the vibration of the one infinite Creator.

You do not mean to subvert or dilute this consciousness of love. It is inevitable that there will be distortion. There will be a measurable dynamic betwixt the vibration of love and the vibration of your being at this moment. You are seeking to lessen that distortion so that you may avail yourself of the vibration of love and be taken into the waters of that consciousness.

Those who would be priests among all peoples have generally sought to work with consciousness itself, to work with their thoughts, both on a moment-to-moment basis and on the deeper level of work in consciousness, to tune their thoughts to the pitch of love. In many, many ways there has been the dedication to devotion of the beloved One. There has been time set aside to tabernacle with the Creator, to come in from the desert of everyday life into the oasis of grace and mercy, to enter the tent of prayer and to rest in silence with the Beloved, blind to the world, open to the spirit.

You may have wondered why there is such a multiplicity of takes on how to serve the Creator, how to know the Creator. The answer to that, my friends, lies deep within the history of your planet, deep within the minds of its people. You have, among you on Planet Earth, sixteen different archetypal minds. They vary in seemingly small ways, yet the cultures produced by these archetypal minds vary widely in the way perception works. And it is according to the perception of people that they must work within the veil, veiled from memory of other incarnations for the most part, veiled from memory of the way things are outside of the veil. Various archetypal minds, various cultures, have found different doors of perception that work for them.

The perception of those such as the one known as Y has found useful is a perception that does not accept the reality of third density in the physical illusion. This is radically different from, for instance, the typical perception of those within the American culture or the European culture where great respect is given to the solidity of life, its mass and weight and physical characteristics. Your culture has found great value in coming more and more to understand how things work from the standpoint of chemistry, physics, mathematics and so forth.

Those who are able to develop the kind of realization that frees them ultimately from the bounds of the physical are those who have grown up breathing in the air of belief in the reality not of this illusion but of the Creator. It is indeed bewildering to many who are in the European or American cultures to consider that their bodies, their obviously physical, obviously present bodies that have weight and mass, might not be real. It is a matter of perception. Those growing up where value was given to the physical illusion would not tend to be capable of opening those doors of those masters of the Far East. This does not mean that those who focus according to Buddhist or Hindu principles have less opportunity or more opportunity to open the gateway to intelligent infinity. It means that their perception of what they are doing varies, sometimes radically.

We will say this, my friends, there are ways in which individuals steeped in a culture that supports the unreality of physicality will find, given a lifetime of work in consciousness, to be able to manipulate matter so that it appears and disappears. You have seen in those who demonstrate hypnosis that if the perception of a person changes, actions can be taken that would seem to harm that person, such as running a needle through the arm or walking on coals that are burning embers. Yet under the influence of a hypnotist, a hypnotized person feels no pain at the stick of the needle, feels no burning as he walks over fire. It is a matter of perception.

For those who find these methods of seeking the love and the light of the infinite Creator such a seeking to cleanse the body, furnish the mind, understand what is happening and so forth, all of these various efforts can be very helpful. We suggest that the seeker play with such ideas lightly, musingly, as the cow chews its cud slowly, and if the mind catches fire, if the heart catches fire, then perhaps this method is one which will be a good resource for you.

To offer a more general perception to those who would find it useful, we might say that the matter of matter does not matter. You can think of ascension as taking your physical body with you. Many do. Or you can think of ascension as a state of consciousness that has nothing to do with the physical body.

If your perceptions find that thinking of ascension without regard to the physical body is useful then we would say this. In a very deep and real way, each of you is at the center of a Creation, your creation. In a world where everything is, in a clichéd way, relative, you can easily and comfortably accept the proposition that your experience is subjective. You may strive all your life to achieve objectivity, but you see, my friends, you are there. You are a witness, and that which you observe is observed according to your perceptions. The truth lies beyond perception. The truth lies beyond the conscious mind; that is, the intellect. It is not beyond the mind of the heart, which is consciousness itself. Yet consciousness itself is. It is not a doer. You are the action figure in your drama. [Consciousness] abides. Therefore, it is easier to be love than to be able to speak of love.

Your creation is made up of the way you choose to think about things, the way you choose to observe and perceive things. The striving of humanity in third density is to move beyond the limits of normal perception and open the doors to all that there is. Consequently, if you wish to ascend within the body, that is, the physical body, you shall wish to let your intuition bring to you the activities and the thoughts that will help you to achieve that. Consciousness, awareness, perception, is malleable and easily influenced by many things.

This instrument has many times had the experience of reading something incorrectly because of a good deal of astigmatism in her vision, so that one set of words become something else entirely. Many times this instrument has gotten something out of words that she read incorrectly. Was her perception misguided? It does not matter whether she read correctly or incorrectly. What matters is how she responded to that which she perceived. That is your Creation in the making: your awareness that you are a Creator and that you can create a subjective creation that suits you not a little or not for the most part, but through and through.

You have this saying in your culture. It is, “What goes around, comes around.” How you perceive has a tremendous amount to do with what happens to you. Say that you are one who perceives with a rosy hue, you are an optimist. You see hope and faith everywhere. That which happens to you will be interpreted according to [your expectation of] all things turning out well.

There are those who feel that everything is hopeless. The world is meaningless, existence has no point, and the only appropriate point of view is ironic, desperate and without hope. To such a person even the sunniest day will have shadows.

Both entities are seeing truly for themselves. Their experience overwrites what could be called “objective reality.” Your experience will always overwrite the parts that make up the sum of what you observe.

Consequently, you can indeed create of your experience of life an environment that more and more nearly matches the vibration of the infinite One. You can avail yourself of that vibration. That which is real in the universe is both infinite and limited. Unity is that which is real. You are all one. We are all one with you. The Creation is all one interconnected being.


I thought it was very much on topic with what we've been talking about over the last week or so.... Thoughts?

3DMonkey

First of all, I embrace any and all correlation drawn between my username and "what this instrument calls 'the monkey mind'". Unfounded or not Smile
Secondly, Yes, this is a wonderful expression of what I belive has been the unexpressable, underlying knowing that we haven't been capable of writing in words ourselves. Nevertheless, I have felt these words of Q'uo at my core through all my recent discussions, and I have felt you all have them at the core of your perspectives as well.
Honestly, this elaborate message from Q'uo has been a part of my core understanding even before reading it, and I have blindly assumed everyone here processes from this core understanding as well.
I especially like this part: "In a world where everything is, in a clichéd way, relative, you can easily and comfortably accept the proposition that your experience is subjective. You may strive all your life to achieve objectivity, but you see, my friends, you are there. You are a witness, and that which you observe is observed according to your perceptions. The truth lies beyond perception."

Q'uo sure can play Carla's mind like beautiful harp.

This idea...the idea that our perception of the world basically shapes our world...is a major reason why I'm okay with giving in to naivety. I haven't spent very much time as a seeker per se, but after dealing with some lower blockages, I have found myself at this point in time most comfortable operating mainly out of my heart chakra. I realize that many of my thoughts may be naive or "unrealistic" in a broader view, but in my own world, I choose to process everything with love despite the naivety. In fact, sometimes I relish in my naivety. I'm aware, however, I may learn a hard lesson from this some day. But that's why existence is about, no?
you may be working with green energy or even higher energies during your 3d body incarnation, just like how various entities and wanderers done before you. your perception will be shaped by those energies, and you may even begin to experience quite a good deal of paranormal phenomenon.

but that doesnt mean that you moved into 4d. everything is not 'perception'. there is physical reality. a 4d body is not the same with a 3d body. nor a 5d body is same with 3d. 5d body can get shaped with the will of the entity. the other bodies cannot, despite 4d body can greatly respond to the will of the entity.

the quote you bolded illustrates this in that regard :

Quote:To offer a more general perception to those who would find it useful, we might say that the matter of matter does not matter. You can think of ascension as taking your physical body with you. Many do. Or you can think of ascension as a state of consciousness that has nothing to do with the physical body.

basically it advises to see ascension as a state of consciousness, which will NOT have anything to do with the physical body. so in short, not the 'ascension' that is being perpetrated among spiritual circles.

this is actually compliant with what Ra says about 3 to 4d body transition, and what quo says about 4d bodies in another transcript.
I've been thinking about this, and I think the key phrase given is:


Quote: To offer a more general perception to those who would find it useful, we might say that the matter of matter does not matter.


If we take what Ra/Q'uo have told us about 4D, we know that a trademark quality of 4D will be thought becoming thing. In this way, what Q'uo counsels here would be obvious: if we can control the physical world with our minds, why couldn't we just keep everything they way it is? The answer is that we could, if we choose to. We can give ourselves anywhere from 0% to 100% to 4D from 3D, and its up to us to find our own personal "best" vibration to begin on. This could very well be the transition period that is mentioned, as everyone learns to "flex their muscles" in 4D. Those who want to continue in their incarnations with their familys/friends will be able to do so as a collective, while those who wish to flee the 3D illusion will be able to transition into more "electrical bodies" and immerse themselves in the newer 4D environments. In other words, it will not be "one size fits all", but rather, "all sizes available."

I think what Ra speaks of as 3d being incompatible with full-4D plays into this same idea. If thought is thing, there is no place for confusion or 'moral decisions'. You provide solutions to problems that arise from love, and therefore have no reason to be confused. There is no cost-value equation to run through your head, as love provides you energy and your love is limitless. Ra claims that catalyst is provided by mental/emotional means in 4D almost exclusively... Does this refer to failed opportunities? When we are 4D beings, will every mistake or missed opportunity for service sting like a bee? I mean, we are these demigod 4D beings! How could we let someone else suffer or perish when we could have done something about it? or for STS, how could we ever miss an opportunity to love ourselves?


I think sometimes you can look to accounts of the 'great prophets' as well. Ra states specifically that Jesus was apparently an entity of the 4th density of the highest possible vibration. For myself, there are a few things that intrigue me here. First, we can see the obvious influence of 4D (love) in Jesus' actions, including his miracles and healings. This is similar with all the other great prophets. In this way, I think we can look at the accounts of Jesus/Buddha/Krishna/Muhammed et al almost as 4D-version celebrities of the future. They are the type of people who will lead in 4D when we get there, and they provided a 'sneak peek' of what is to come, and their message has been preserved through the religions and cultures of the planet.


I do find Q'uo has given a lot of information here. He glosses over the christian ascension, but thinking about it, I think Jesus was already ascended at the point of resurrection. By forgiving all those who were killing him on the cross, he stopped the karma wheel against him and returned to his "pre-3d" position, ready for 5th density harvest. Therefore, I think when he died on the cross, he went back to the space between incarnations, and was restored to his super-high-4D vibration. It was at this time, as a 4D being, that he "resurrected" himself and reappeared on earth. I think the real question is whether his ascension was just back to 4D from 3D or if he actually ascended to 5D at that moment....


haha I don't know, i'm just spitballin'...
honestly, it seems more like that you are hesitant to accept the idea of death being necessary to make the transition to a 4d manifestation. despite you state that jesus of nazareth physically died on the cross.

Quote:There is no cost-value equation to run through your head, as love provides you energy and your love is limitless.

no such thing is possible - the power any given mind/body/spirit complex can manifest, is limited with the total power it can channel through its significator (ie manifesting self). no construct will be able to handle a current more than it can handle. the situation you describe can only exist at the state in between infinity to infinite intelligence.
(03-25-2011, 12:17 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]honestly, it seems more like that you are hesitant to accept the idea of death being necessary to make the transition to a 4d manifestation. despite you state that jesus of nazareth physically died on the cross.

I am not hesitant towards anything. I know all will be well; I feel no fear towards the future. What I am responding to is the words of Q'uo, who seems to imply that this subject is quite grey, rather than black or white.
There is no such thing as an immortal 3D being; I know this and accept this. We will all die one day in our 3D vehicle. I am only questioning the circumstances of this death, and I am not sure it will be exactly the same experience after the full green sphere activation comes into effect.


Quote:
Quote:There is no cost-value equation to run through your head, as love provides you energy and your love is limitless.

no such thing is possible - the power any given mind/body/spirit complex can manifest, is limited with the total power it can channel through its significator (ie manifesting self). no construct will be able to handle a current more than it can handle. the situation you describe can only exist at the state in between infinity to infinite intelligence.

I agree with what you say here, but I think I wasn't clear. Limitless was probably a poor choice of word; I mean it as a relative term. Compared to 3D, we will seem like we are ultra-powerful beings, but I did not mean that we are without limits (therefore, poor word choice). I only mean the threshold of our 'power' (if u wanna call it that) will be raised in 4D to support a different train of thought, where we don't have to factor in 3D confusions.

3DMonkey

Hogey11, you spoke about thoughts and manifestations of such. It prompts me to meditate on what thought is and how much power we possess to direct it. My thoughts didn't manifest this rose bud I'm sitting next to, and then again, yes they did. Our thoughts have in fact manifested this rose. It is not something that required conscious supervision. So, I determine that thoughts do create, but from the knowledge of 5D is it understood how. When Q'uo, or Ra, mentions thought manifested into physical form, I do not take it as the power of one entities consciously directed thought creation. No, I understand it to encompass the entire science created by the sub-logos, which takes into consideration the inflow and outflow of intelligent energy (or do I mean infinite energy?) and how it is applied in a particular plane/sphere.
It would be true to say our thoughts created this rose bud, but it would be a dramatically simple statement as well- one that only a 5D or 6D could state with understanding.
(03-25-2011, 12:51 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not hesitant towards anything. I know all will be well; I feel no fear towards the future. What I am responding to is the words of Q'uo, who seems to imply that this subject is quite grey, rather than black or white.
There is no such thing as an immortal 3D being; I know this and accept this. We will all die one day in our 3D vehicle. I am only questioning the circumstances of this death, and I am not sure it will be exactly the same experience after the full green sphere activation comes into effect.

it was directly and explicitly stated that the entities in 3-4d bodies would have to die in order to incarnate in 4d bodies, by Ra. this was also redoubled in another quo session. however you already seem to remember these, so i wont dwell on these.

as for 3d and 4d spheres thing, remembering what Ra says about 3d sphere, after no 3d entities remain on this planet, is worth of note :

another quote that explains the concept of sphere :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#32

so, thought forms, artifacts, feelings 3d entities produced, in addition to 3d entities' bodies, create 3d sphere, apparently.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#22

above further ties the concept of a planetary sphere closely to the entities that create it.

however, the below is a quite curious quote :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#25

basically it says that 4d sphere now exists more in time/space than space/time, and not solid. when fully activated, it will be solid and habitable upon its own.

this, basically clears the debate regarding dimensions. it basically says, 4d sphere is a sphere that will be formed, and will become solid, and will be habitable on its own. so, basically it will be like another 'dimension' compared to 3d we experience now.

however the below quotes rather definitively clear the question of 'ascension' with 3d body or even 3-4d body :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#13

13, and 14th quotes are asked quite in detail, and answered in detail. notice how with 13th question, there occurs the possible concept of a 3-4d dual activated body being a 3d body activated and a 4d body activated on top of it, and, don asks the 14th question on this assumption, but, ra answers quite clearly this time, says

"The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions."

this basically means, dual activated body is a combination body, which is capable of living in 3d while still appreciating 4d.

the question that whether this kind of body, can vibrate appropriately and live and inhabit the 4d sphere to be formed, is a question in itself. however, don's question is about the necessity of death for these dual activated bodies to make 4d transition, and the answer seems to be yes.


Quote: I only mean the threshold of our 'power' (if u wanna call it that) will be raised in 4D to support a different train of thought, where we don't have to factor in 3D confusions.

doubtful, due to a few reasons :

4d body still is a physical body. it reacts more easily to the thoughts of the entity and is much lighter, yet still not moldable like 5d body. even 5d body has to die.

this planet is in the early stages of 4d vibrations. that means, the full effects of 4d may no be present. in turn this means the full metaphysicality of 4d (compared to 4d) may not be here rightaway. basically thoughts may not be things, as fast as they become things in late 4d.

actually a very good thing, considering the 3d thought forms that still fly around. and the thoughts in society complex that are not so positive or harmless/helpful.
(03-25-2011, 08:01 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]it was directly and explicitly stated that the entities in 3-4d bodies would have to die in order to incarnate in 4d bodies, by Ra. this was also redoubled in another quo session. however you already seem to remember these, so i wont dwell on these.

as for 3d and 4d spheres thing, remembering what Ra says about 3d sphere, after no 3d entities remain on this planet, is worth of note :

another quote that explains the concept of sphere :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#32

so, thought forms, artifacts, feelings 3d entities produced, in addition to 3d entities' bodies, create 3d sphere, apparently.

I agree with you here, but I think it might not be so simple. I would argue that our 3D selves/entities/artifacts are a subjective thing rather than a concrete matter. 3D will cease to exist because we won't be able to think in 3D, nor will the tools/feelings/infrastructure we have built for our lives in 3D matter to us or be useful to us. In this way, the entire world undergoes a shift where the purpose and focus is love. I think this could be a transformational thing, and maybe in a way/manner that we don't understand or isn't yet possible in our current space/time. I realize I am going against the grain here, but I see a bright future ahead Tongue

Quote:http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#22

above further ties the concept of a planetary sphere closely to the entities that create it.

however, the below is a quite curious quote :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#25

basically it says that 4d sphere now exists more in time/space than space/time, and not solid. when fully activated, it will be solid and habitable upon its own.

this, basically clears the debate regarding dimensions. it basically says, 4d sphere is a sphere that will be formed, and will become solid, and will be habitable on its own. so, basically it will be like another 'dimension' compared to 3d we experience now.

Okay - what if what is really being discussed here is the full activation of the 4D world and our ability to manipulate it. Once the 4D green sphere comes into complete activation, the building blocks are then given to us, and we can start to do things such as creating things with thought. At this point in space/time, we are in a 3D sphere with 3D understandings. It would take an immense amount of discipline to penetrate the veil and contact intelligent infinity to do some of these feats. However, in a 4D world with a 4D body (with no veil), these abilities become simple. The Green 4D Sphere may just be the harbinger of the awakening of our 4D selfs (indeed 3d/4d hybrid, but we don't know how bad that is yet!)

Quote:however the below quotes rather definitively clear the question of 'ascension' with 3d body or even 3-4d body :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#13

13, and 14th quotes are asked quite in detail, and answered in detail. notice how with 13th question, there occurs the possible concept of a 3-4d dual activated body being a 3d body activated and a 4d body activated on top of it, and, don asks the 14th question on this assumption, but, ra answers quite clearly this time, says

"The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions."

this basically means, dual activated body is a combination body, which is capable of living in 3d while still appreciating 4d.

the question that whether this kind of body, can vibrate appropriately and live and inhabit the 4d sphere to be formed, is a question in itself. however, don's question is about the necessity of death for these dual activated bodies to make 4d transition, and the answer seems to be yes.

I don't see how the question could not be 'yes' no matter which side you take. If I am incarnated in a 3D/4D body in order to witness the harvest, and that incarnation ended, I would expect to end up in a full 4D body post-harvest. I agree that we do not know how compatible the 3d/4d body will be with a fully activated 4D sphere, but I am not convinced that the answer is "completely incompatible". I see it far more likely as our 3d/4d bodies acting as cocoons, where once we "grow" enough we can bust out of our shells and enter our 4D incarnation, or it could be that we live out our human-length lives (maybe kicked back up to 900 years for the fun of it) while 4D is birthed around us. Once we kick the can in our hybrids, we come back in full 4D.

Quote:
Quote: I only mean the threshold of our 'power' (if u wanna call it that) will be raised in 4D to support a different train of thought, where we don't have to factor in 3D confusions.

doubtful, due to a few reasons :

4d body still is a physical body. it reacts more easily to the thoughts of the entity and is much lighter, yet still not moldable like 5d body. even 5d body has to die.

this planet is in the early stages of 4d vibrations. that means, the full effects of 4d may no be present. in turn this means the full metaphysicality of 4d (compared to 4d) may not be here rightaway. basically thoughts may not be things, as fast as they become things in late 4d.

actually a very good thing, considering the 3d thought forms that still fly around. and the thoughts in society complex that are not so positive or harmless/helpful.
[/quote]

No, what I mean is that 3D thought patterns will not occur to us in 4D. Example would be bluffing; this action is useless in 4D, as your thoughts are clear to others. These 'powers' are what will separate us from our current 3D world, in my crazy opinion Tongue
(03-28-2011, 09:23 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with you here, but I think it might not be so simple. I would argue that our 3D selves/entities/artifacts are a subjective thing rather than a concrete matter. 3D will cease to exist because we won't be able to think in 3D, nor will the tools/feelings/infrastructure we have built for our lives in 3D matter to us or be useful to us. In this way, the entire world undergoes a shift where the purpose and focus is love. I think this could be a transformational thing, and maybe in a way/manner that we don't understand or isn't yet possible in our current space/time. I realize I am going against the grain here, but I see a bright future ahead Tongue
Okay - what if what is really being discussed here is the full activation of the 4D world and our ability to manipulate it. Once the 4D green sphere comes into complete activation, the building blocks are then given to us, and we can start to do things such as creating things with thought. At this point in space/time, we are in a 3D sphere with 3D understandings. It would take an immense amount of discipline to penetrate the veil and contact intelligent infinity to do some of these feats. However, in a 4D world with a 4D body (with no veil), these abilities become simple. The Green 4D Sphere may just be the harbinger of the awakening of our 4D selfs (indeed 3d/4d hybrid, but we don't know how bad that is yet!)

ra doesnt talk vaguely - in any vague case they clear things quite precisely.

you are 'interpreting' the concept of a sphere, and the solidity of that sphere. however the context these words were used in, and the way they were used, are pretty much solid :

the green ray sphere is not solid at the moment and uninhabitable. once the sphere is formed, it can be settled, it is said. it is also noted that this sphere was being formed.

had it been a 'full activation' (quite vague concept by the way) sense as you interpret, the sphere would not be forming.

ra had had said that the green ray spectrum was here, and its effects were beginning to be felt - like thoughts becoming things in the form of diseases. IF, green ray sphere solidity meant things like thought forms, these thought-created stuff, it would be partially habitable by now, since there are already a lot of entities functioning in the green ray spectrum. (3-4d entities the least).

but this sphere is said to be forming, but not solid and uninhabitable.

..........

i had had thought like you before. however after rereading the quote about the green ray sphere's forming, i had had seen that concept of a real sphere is being relayed.

Quote:I don't see how the question could not be 'yes' no matter which side you take. If I am incarnated in a 3D/4D body in order to witness the harvest, and that incarnation ended, I would expect to end up in a full 4D body post-harvest. I agree that we do not know how compatible the 3d/4d body will be with a fully activated 4D sphere, but I am not convinced that the answer is "completely incompatible".

entities had had incarnated in 3-4d bodies not to witness the harvest. the entities incarnating in these bodies are here for doing early 4d work, and helping form the 4d society. these are already harvested entities. this is what we are told in Ra material.

3-4d body would probably be incompatible with advancing stages of 4d.

Quote:I see it far more likely as our 3d/4d bodies acting as cocoons, where once we "grow" enough we can bust out of our shells and enter our 4D incarnation, or it could be that we live out our human-length lives (maybe kicked back up to 900 years for the fun of it) while 4D is birthed around us. Once we kick the can in our hybrids, we come back in full 4D.

note that no 'cocoon' process is described at any given point in Ra material. the point where death-birth cycle stops, is named as the point in early 7d, when the 'need to reuse body complexes end'.

from this, we understand that birth-death is a reality even in 6th density. leave aside being a reality in 5th density, the density of bodies that mold according to the will of the entities inhabiting it.
@unity100

We have some communication problems. I can go through almost all of your points and argue because you misunderstand me greatly with some semantical assumptions. Not anybody's fault, but I am starting to think that we just think things through differently. All good and I want to thank you for your insight!

You are much more into the concrete things that Ra has said, and thats really cool. I am more into exploring what Ra isn't saying so concretely. I am trying to dig into the meaning behind what is being said, and from my own interpretations, I think we see slightly different outcomes. I am definitely a gradualist at this point, but I am not beyond a quantam leap either.
(03-28-2011, 10:38 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]@unity100
We have some communication problems. I can go through almost all of your points and argue because you misunderstand me greatly with some semantical assumptions. Not anybody's fault, but I am starting to think that we just think things through differently. All good and I want to thank you for your insight!

You are much more into the concrete things that Ra has said, and thats really cool. I am more into exploring what Ra isn't saying so concretely. I am trying to dig into the meaning behind what is being said, and from my own interpretations, I think we see slightly different outcomes. I am definitely a gradualist at this point, but I am not beyond a quantam leap either.

we dont have miscommunication. i understand what you are trying to say, however, im saying that explicitly expressed, reiterated concepts in Ra material have direct meanings unless implied.

ie, things like "these entities will have to die according to necessities of 3d" come after don trying to confirm specific things. and they explicitly state the nature of the confirmation. this is an occasional occurrence, however in the occasions it comes up, it is pretty much sharp, clear and precise in its meaning. down to the tiniest minuate sometimes.

if you want to cease discussing this matter, its fine by me.

3DMonkey

I love discussing this matter. I side with unity100 more or less. I love discussing it with hogey11 because you are terrific at agreeing to disagree.

I do think it is semantics. I think the discrepancy is how "zoomed in" we are at looking at the details. Zoom in and death is quite necessary. Zoom out and it all flows unnoticed.

If it is gradual, then what do we suppose is the process of all the unharvestables that will be relocating? Does a gradualistic idea have an earth where only 4D positive harvestables are existing in dual bodies, whilst the 4D negs and the 3Ds Unharvestables are gone?
At some point they must leave.
(03-28-2011, 11:47 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]If it is gradual, then what do we suppose is the process of all the unharvestables that will be relocating? Does a gradualistic idea have an earth where only 4D positive harvestables are existing in dual bodies, whilst the 4D negs and the 3Ds Unharvestables are gone?
At some point they must leave.

They will filter out incarnationally. Once the 3D sphere starts melting into potentiation, chance for 3D work no longer exists on earth, so unharvestable 3D entities will simply start incarnating elsewhere. I'm assuming the same goes for 4D neg...after they die, they'll incarnate into a 4D negative society. What's left is a population of dual-body harvested 4D entities, manifesting the 4D sphere, building the 4D+ society.

I'm guessing since 3D work is basically done on this sphere, most children now are 4D entities already harvested, incarnating into dual bodies.
(03-28-2011, 11:23 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]we dont have miscommunication. i understand what you are trying to say, however, im saying that explicitly expressed, reiterated concepts in Ra material have direct meanings unless implied.

ie, things like "these entities will have to die according to necessities of 3d" come after don trying to confirm specific things. and they explicitly state the nature of the confirmation. this is an occasional occurrence, however in the occasions it comes up, it is pretty much sharp, clear and precise in its meaning. down to the tiniest minuate sometimes.

if you want to cease discussing this matter, its fine by me.

Its not so much as I want to cease discussing it, but more that I'm not sure we will get anywhere.

The example you give is perfect. Ra states very clearly that "these entities will have to die according to necessities of 3D". You argue that Don is often very precise when these measures are given, and I agree with you, but I honestly believe Ra was being facetious. Don often asked Ra about these types of things in hopes to pinpoint some sort of future for ourselves, and in my opinion, Ra is only stating the obvious here. We will die one day. There is no getting out of it. However, Ra does not say "You will all drop dead at the bells of midnight!" either, which is why I feel this is not such a black/white issue.


I do not believe the 3D body will live on ad infinitum. "These entities will have to die according to 3D necessities" only means that our 3D selves must die one day. It does not mean we must all die at once. You also brought up 3D/4D being able to appreciate 4D vibrations, which for myself means that we can exist in 3D, but why wouldn't the opposite not be true as well? Maybe we'll be less advanced, or have shorter lifespans, but who is to say the hybrids won't be a part of building the bridge between densities? As abridgetoofar has mentioned, this gradual incarnational approach can allow for incarnations to separate the hybrids from the purebred 4Ds over time. Also, what do we know of the veil in 4D, other than its not nearly quite as much of a factor? If there is no veil in 4D, what does that mean for reincarnations? Will we have to 'wipe' our minds like in 3D, and if not, then isn't this all over nothing? In 4D, death may not mean the death of the mind like in 3D, and therefore could be a very different death than from what we experience. If this is true, which death does a 3D/4D entity experience after the shift to 4D?


In many ways, everything you have pointed out to me has made me more clear in my resolve. I am watching the world around me and I can sense a great change coming; one in which all of us in the light will need to shine and help implement a new world. Think of it from a wanderer's perspective even - they come to witness and help along harvest yet they have no part in the building of the new sphere? There just seems to be a continuity gap in there somewhere...


I will warn you: I am stubborn. I have my head in the clouds. It's not a good combination, and as 3DMonkey says, I will agree to disagree until i'm blue in the face Tongue


@3Dmonkey
Quote:If it is gradual, then what do we suppose is the process of all the unharvestables that will be relocating? Does a gradualistic idea have an earth where only 4D positive harvestables are existing in dual bodies, whilst the 4D negs and the 3Ds Unharvestables are gone?


I agree largely with abridgetoofar on this. I have a few ideas of what could happen, but I think ultimately it will be the advent of the fully activated 4D sphere that ends up determining all.

One thing I remember is that Ra says that in 4D, there is no intermingling between STO and STS like there is in 3D, and I wonder if this will be one of the first manifestations of the 4D sphere. A very natural 'sorting', if you will, based on STS and STO behaviors. As each incarnation dies off, it only reincarnates if it is 4D positive, otherwise it is allotted elsewhere.

Just a thought Tongue

3DMonkey

(03-29-2011, 12:29 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-28-2011, 11:47 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]If it is gradual, then what do we suppose is the process of all the unharvestables that will be relocating? Does a gradualistic idea have an earth where only 4D positive harvestables are existing in dual bodies, whilst the 4D negs and the 3Ds Unharvestables are gone?
At some point they must leave.

They will filter out incarnationally. Once the 3D sphere starts melting into potentiation, chance for 3D work no longer exists on earth, so unharvestable 3D entities will simply start incarnating elsewhere. I'm assuming the same goes for 4D neg...after they die, they'll incarnate into a 4D negative society. What's left is a population of dual-body harvested 4D entities, manifesting the 4D sphere, building the 4D+ society.

I'm guessing since 3D work is basically done on this sphere, most children now are 4D entities already harvested, incarnating into dual bodies.

I can't help but think that this idea sidesteps the 4D- need to evolutionize a from a 3D body. Even if you argued that they go to a planet already evolutionized, I still say it's a clear leap forward into 4D.
I know Ra doesn't say we all die at once. They say it all happens within a second on the clock though. What exactly, I don't know.

You and I, hogey11, have repeated over and over the Ra quotes and come different conclusions within the agreed theory.

My personal take- I want it to be a mass flash into time/space. I look forward to it happening (my own version of homesickness).
I don't think it will happen that way though. Even though I believe Ra is saying that's the way, I'm not betting on it. This is my hidden frustration. I think we will live on into 2032. Of course world dynamics will change, they always, always, do.

I battle this discussion frequently, and it is my main reason for throwing my hands up and saying 'i'm staying in 3D. Ascension isn't worth the confusion'... Thus, I embrace being a 3DMonkey for eternity. I have no special 4D powers. My visions are my beliefs. My metaphysical experiences are dreamlike or in my head. If nothing NOTICEABLE happens in the next two years, I'm declaring right now, I'm giving up on Ra at that time. This is my conviction.
(03-29-2011, 06:44 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I can't help but think that this idea sidesteps the 4D- need to evolutionize a from a 3D body. Even if you argued that they go to a planet already evolutionized, I still say it's a clear leap forward into 4D.
I know Ra doesn't say we all die at once. They say it all happens within a second on the clock though. What exactly, I don't know.

I'd say the need to evolve a 4D body is for newly 4D societies. Let's say that after harvest, a 4D positive might be better suited in a different 4D society. Instead of sticking around Earth and going through the transition, they could also incarnate elsewhere into an already functioning 4D society. The transitional experience seems to be extremely unique and useful for a soul, but not necessarily a required experience for harvest. If you make harvest, you make harvest.

Earth, our society, and our bodies have to go through the transition, not exactly as a necessity for harvest, but as a necessity for facilitating harvest.


Quote:I battle this discussion frequently, and it is my main reason for throwing my hands up and saying 'i'm staying in 3D. Ascension isn't worth the confusion'... Thus, I embrace being a 3DMonkey for eternity. I have no special 4D powers. My visions are my beliefs. My metaphysical experiences are dreamlike or in my head. If nothing NOTICEABLE happens in the next two years, I'm declaring right now, I'm giving up on Ra at that time. This is my conviction.

I think that 3D experience is so tiring, we all just want to get it over with. We're all ready for a breath of fresh air, a new experience. We as physical personalities have been milling over exactly what 4D is for who knows how long...I want it to be here too!

But honestly, I'm incredibly honored to be in the position I'm in. The people alive today...especially the light seekers...will lay the foundation for our 4D society. We are bringers of change, and there's nowhere to go but up from here. I love my job here on Earth, and I wouldn't trade it for ascension if I could.
(03-29-2011, 02:07 AM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]The example you give is perfect. Ra states very clearly that "these entities will have to die according to necessities of 3D". You argue that Don is often very precise when these measures are given, and I agree with you, but I honestly believe Ra was being facetious. Don often asked Ra about these types of things in hopes to pinpoint some sort of future for ourselves, and in my opinion, Ra is only stating the obvious here. We will die one day. There is no getting out of it. However, Ra does not say "You will all drop dead at the bells of midnight!" either, which is why I feel this is not such a black/white issue.

you need to remember other cases and view this in their light :

at the end of 2nd cycle, a light manifestation of an entity holding a light shield and whatnot appeared to the entities harvestable in 2nd cycle end. it described 4d, the joy and whatnot, and gave them a choice. these entities choose to stay to help others. the entities which were loosely associated with these group, chose to leave, but they were not harvestable, so they had to repeat 3rd density from last sub octave. this happened during incarnation.

why the need for such a manifestation ?

Quote:In many ways, everything you have pointed out to me has made me more clear in my resolve. I am watching the world around me and I can sense a great change coming; one in which all of us in the light will need to shine and help implement a new world. Think of it from a wanderer's perspective even - they come to witness and help along harvest yet they have no part in the building of the new sphere? There just seems to be a continuity gap in there somewhere...

3-4d bodies, ra says, will allow entities to appreciate the incoming vibrations of 4d.

Quote:I will warn you: I am stubborn. I have my head in the clouds. It's not a good combination, and as 3DMonkey says, I will agree to disagree until i'm blue in the face Tongue

i just think that you are unwilling to acknowledge the possibility/necessity of death for passing into what you see as a much more positive environment, and this probably stems from your having a family, kids and whatnot. its understandable. however ....
This is an amazing thread! Than you Hogey11! So much info that i always wanted to talk about,but couldnt find people to do it with.

3DMonkey

It's more realistic for me to accept that I'm going to a new 3D planet.
3DMonkey, you don't think you're polarized? There's tremendous opportunity for polarization for aware entities at this time. You can achieve more polarization in the rest of your lifetime here than multiple lifetimes in 4D. It is as much of a choice not to polarize as it is to polarize, for an intelligent and aware individual such as yourself anyways Smile
@unity100 - Again, I am only doubting a mass instantaneous death/birth event where we are all sorted and shuffled off to our allotted existences. I believe the process will be a gradual one, which Ra explains as the 100-700 year transition period. My reasoning lies in a vision of what early 4D might mean for us here on earth. We know our "lifespans" are really around 900 years long, but that they are shortened greatly by our distortions and the distortions of our planet. I could imagine that in post-harvest early 4D, our full lifespans as 3D beings will be opened to us (say 700-900 years, depending on wear and tear from 3D). Also, as mentioned before, if the veil of the 3D incarnational experience has been lifted in 4D, the "death" of the 3D vehicle might be quite a pleasant experience that is chosen rather than forced. The 100-700 years is the window in which all the hybrids will need to choose to "ascend" and leave their 3D bodies.

The heart of what I am getting at is what i'm talking about here. Will ascension be a cup forced to our lips, or will it be one freely chosen by us as we explore a new world given to us? I will echo again; I do not think you are wrong. I am very willing to be off-base, but my curiosity gets the best of me and without resolve you will never determine anything!

Okay, quick tangent:

A large part of my reasoning goes towards seeing 3D as a perception, rather than an actual physical existence. Our 3D selves shape our existence, but they do not constitute it. We know that the colors/densities work within one another, and this is the thing that gets me interested: From the quote given by Unity100, where Ra states the yellow sphere will go into potentiation and we will be left with the red, orange, and green spheres in activation, I think we are not giving the red and orange spheres their due.

We know the red sphere and the orange sphere pertain to matter/light and life/order. Ra claims the yellow sphere as one of "self-awareness", and tells how "the goal" was/is to think in abstract ways and make ourselves even more powerful through the evolution of the mind and intellect. Upon entrance into the "next level", the density of love, it makes sense to me that "the goal" will change, and in this fashion, the perception of needing to be ingenious and clever will die. Abstract thought is not the point of 4D, and therefore, the search for it will die with 3D, thereby deactivating the yellow sphere.

My point is that Ra never mentions the Red and Yellow spheres going into potentiation at any point. Ra also states that our 2D selves could survive without a 3D self, but that they probably wouldn't last too long (due to our bodies being built to make use of abstract thought). I see the 2D complex staying put through ascension, and as our self-aware, abstract-thought loving 3D selves get washed away by our realization of the new 4D world around us, our consciousness will prepare for the very necessary death and reincarnation into full 4D that you have rightly claimed needs to happen. However, without the veil of forgetting inherent to 3D, this may be a completely different experience from what any of us would be expecting. For myself, it also makes sense in terms of the Elder Race at the end of the 2nd cycle as far as ascension being a choice, even at harvest...

3DMonkey

(03-29-2011, 02:04 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]3DMonkey, you don't think you're polarized? There's tremendous opportunity for polarization for aware entities at this time. You can achieve more polarization in the rest of your lifetime here than multiple lifetimes in 4D. It is as much of a choice not to polarize as it is to polarize, for an intelligent and aware individual such as yourself anyways Smile

Thank you so much. I'm not saying I won't try. For me, it's easier to accept that I might not make it, find the love is staying 3D, find the love in not having a planet die in an instant as I'm left here to tread along. In some eccentric way, I feel like making plans to lovingly stay in 3D is somehow going to help me polarize, and if not, I'm still a step ahead of myself. Make sense?
If you are a wanderer, a Brother of Sorrow (I'm sorry, I know you don't like the term brother Tongue), then there may be good possibility that your plan to stay in 3D is grander than our current physical incarnations can understand. Even if you are polarized, you may choose to go to another 3D planet in need of love and light, and spread your love in some eccentric way there.

To me, that is a very brave and beautiful thing.

For me, I feel such a deep connection with this planet and these people, I'm very much looking forward on continuing my journey on Earth with Humanity.

3DMonkey

I will contemplate the roles of red and orange for the rest of the day. Thank you.
(03-29-2011, 02:07 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]@unity100 - Again, I am only doubting a mass instantaneous death/birth event where we are all sorted and shuffled off to our allotted existences. I believe the process will be a gradual one, which Ra explains as the 100-700 year transition period. My reasoning lies in a vision of what early 4D might mean for us here on earth. We know our "lifespans" are really around 900 years long, but that they are shortened greatly by our distortions and the distortions of our planet. I could imagine that in post-harvest early 4D, our full lifespans as 3D beings will be opened to us (say 700-900 years, depending on wear and tear from 3D). Also, as mentioned before, if the veil of the 3D incarnational experience has been lifted in 4D, the "death" of the 3D vehicle might be quite a pleasant experience that is chosen rather than forced. The 100-700 years is the window in which all the hybrids will need to choose to "ascend" and leave their 3D bodies.

that was basically what i was saying. in order to pass into a 4d body, it seems 3-4d entities will need to leave their 3-4d body. basically, 'these entities will die according to the necessities of third density'.

Quote:The heart of what I am getting at is what i'm talking about here. Will ascension be a cup forced to our lips, or will it be one freely chosen by us as we explore a new world given to us? I will echo again; I do not think you are wrong. I am very willing to be off-base, but my curiosity gets the best of me and without resolve you will never determine anything!

whether an 'ascension' will happen, is a question in itself.

Quote:My point is that Ra never mentions the Red and Yellow spheres going into potentiation at any point. Ra also states that our 2D selves could survive without a 3D self, but that they probably wouldn't last too long (due to our bodies being built to make use of abstract thought). I see the 2D complex staying put through ascension, and as our self-aware, abstract-thought loving 3D selves get washed away by our realization of the new 4D world around us, our consciousness will prepare for the very necessary death and reincarnation into full 4D that you have rightly claimed needs to happen. However, without the veil of forgetting inherent to 3D, this may be a completely different experience from what any of us would be expecting. For myself, it also makes sense in terms of the Elder Race at the end of the 2nd cycle as far as ascension being a choice, even at harvest...

actually the veil should be thinning already for entities in 3-4d bodies.

3DMonkey

Red and orange are difficult to define. Contemplating leads me to a question. What role does yellow play in 4D? 4D- has a weird green Ray and 4D+ has a weird yellow Ray.
(03-29-2011, 06:44 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]actually the veil should be thinning already for entities in 3-4d bodies.

Is this an assumption, or is there some Ra or Q'uo material that says this?
(03-29-2011, 08:36 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-29-2011, 06:44 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]actually the veil should be thinning already for entities in 3-4d bodies.

Is this an assumption, or is there some Ra or Q'uo material that says this?

these entities are already 3-4d activated. in 4d, there is no veil. moreover, it was stated that the birthing of these entities were this late, in order for them not to affect free will because of their 4d activation.
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