Bring4th

Given the conversations that are taking place in other treads on B4th I thought it was perhaps an opportunity to discuss free will and how we relate to other selves.

Over the past year I have noticed a subtle change in how the actions or words of other people affect me. I used to be very sensitive, going over and over comments that could be perceived as critical, analysing those words, trying to understand.

Lately I haven't been doing that and I feel much the better for it. A quote I heard Keisha Crowther say in a video rang a bell of truth for me "It's none of my business what other people think of me". I find that such a powerful concept.

When we react to another's words or actions the mirror that the 'other' provides is simply our own respons, our own reactions - the responsibility for our actions and our own feelings resides solely within us. I believe that truly grasping that concept helps enormously in understanding free will.

Social interactions generate expectations from other selves, and yet perhaps these expectations of other selves are manifestations of not fully appreciating the free will of others?

One difficult possibility that most on the positive path avoid to acknowledge is that the green ray can get muddled easily due to blockage from other selves. I did not make this up. The following are the words of Ra, extracted from 41.24 -

Quote:The green-ray entity is ineffectual in the face of blockage from other-selves.

Sometimes it feels as if the love ray has been set up for failure under the extreme constrictions of the veil. Or may be we are like guinea pigs for the gods to check whether STO will still be adopted even if extreme conditions are imposed, under the veil of forgetting and increased vulnerability built into the physical body by careful design.

Moreover, the green is not a primary ray as well. It is difficult to accept for those who want to see love and justice reign.

its not that green ray gets muddled easily in the face of blockage from other selves - green ray entities are unable to affect the blocked entity as blue ray and higher can.

(03-29-2011, 11:04 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]its not that green ray gets muddled easily in the face of blockage from other selves - green ray entities are unable to affect the blocked entity as blue ray and higher can.

Oh, I see that I got it in the reverse. Thanks for correcting a grave misunderstanding on my part, unity100.

it is what Ra said in the q/a. its not that they excluded the possibility of green ray getting muddied though. it may depend on the magnitude of the blockage effect that acted upon the green ray entity from the other self.

So green Ray can't help blockages of others. We accept them or ignore them, I guess?

(03-29-2011, 11:22 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]its not that they excluded the possibility of green ray getting muddied though.

I think that is that is why a positive entity within an overwhelmingly negative environment finds its freewill blocked and is thus probably forced to polarize negative. The following extracted from 71.14 -

Quote:Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.

There are too many loopholes in the entire experiment of STO Vs. STS. And it is greatly magnified on our planet, in its present systems and institutions.

For sure. Don't forget the fact that a 99% STS entity can flip polarity in an instant and become STO. It's like the prodigal son. It makes no difference. Just come home.

(03-29-2011, 12:28 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]For sure. Don't forget the fact that a 99% STS entity can flip polarity in an instant and become STO. It's like the prodigal son. It makes no difference. Just come home.

Beyond the 5th, the negative has no other choice too, do they?

STO may seem to get the short end of the stick some times but Ra said people on the STO path are protected to some extent from negative catalyst, people on the STS path aren't. And the STS path is way harder over all. Sometimes I wonder about social interaction: conversation is based on both participants inquiring about the others interests, whether they are genuinely interested or not, but this seems to make social interaction overall slightly more STO biased, and social interaction is pretty much the core of 3D. I suppose someone polarizing to STS would have to overcome their disinterest in what someone else is saying and keep sight of the bigger picture that doing this action will help them control others, the same way we would overcome disinterest by keeping sight of the fact that we're all one and listening would this person feel better, but it must be hard to overcome disinterest when your path is based on finding as many ways as possible to prove to yourself that you and others are separate.

(03-29-2011, 09:49 AM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]Over the past year I have noticed a subtle change in how the actions or words of other people affect me. I used to be very sensitive, going over and over comments that could be perceived as critical, analysing those words, trying to understand.

Lately I haven't been doing that and I feel much the better for it.

I had the same experience! I used to worry and fret so much about what others thought of me! I don't do that nearly as much as I used to, and it's so liberating!

(03-29-2011, 09:49 AM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]A quote I heard Keisha Crowther say in a video rang a bell of truth for me "It's none of my business what other people think of me". I find that such a powerful concept.

Wow, that is a powerful concept! I would not have been able to wrap my brain around it awhile back. Even now, it's still a challenge for me. But at least now I can conceive of the idea.

(03-29-2011, 01:49 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said people on the STO path are protected to some extent from negative catalyst, people on the STS path aren't.

I thought it was the other way around? As STO is a path of acceptance there is no protection, as one needs nothing to protect the self from, as all is One?

EDIT: Therefore it is required only 51% for graduation to STO, because STO have no protection from negative entities, while STS using separation have the protection....??

(03-29-2011, 01:54 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2011, 01:49 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said people on the STO path are protected to some extent from negative catalyst, people on the STS path aren't.

I thought it was the other way around? As STO is a path of acceptance there is no protection, as one needs nothing to protect the self from, as all is One?

That wouldn't work, STO people are more vulnerable to manipulation, and they only have strength in a community or common support structure of some kind, they need protection to learn how to pay more attention to others and less attention to themselves. Someone on the STS path needs to learn how to fend for themselves at all times, be entirely self sufficient, not trust anyone, etc. so not having protection helps them learn those lessons. And STS is a very unsustainable path, only a small portion of entities can follow it for the universe to work, if it was protected more people would be on it and the universe would go from a Swedish democracy to a third world kleptocratic dictatorship.

Quote:92.33 Questioner: The protection here seems to be depicted as being on the right-hand side but not the left. Would this indicate that there is protection for the positive path but not for the negative?

Ra: I am Ra. You perceive correctly an inborn bias offering to the seeing eye and listing ear information concerning the choice of the more efficient polarity. We would at this time, as you may call it, suggest one more full query.

Quote:32.1 ...Secondly, the means of protection against any negative or debilitating influence for those upon the positive path was demonstrated by this instrument to a very great degree. Consider, if you will, the potentials that this particular occurrence had for negative influences to enter the instrument. This instrument thought upon the Creator in its solitude and in actions with other-self, continually praised and gave thanksgiving to the Creator for the experiences it was having. This in turn allowed this particular self such energies as became a catalyst for an opening and strengthening of the other-self’s ability to function in a more positively polarized state. Thus we see protection being very simple. Give thanksgiving for each moment. See the self and the other-self as Creator. Open the heart. Always know the light and praise it. This is all the protection necessary.

Quote:99.8 We now speak of that genie, or elemental, or mythic figure, culturally determined, which sends the arrow to the left-hand transformation. This arrow is not the arrow which kills but rather that which, in its own way, protects. Those who choose separation, that being the quality most indicative of the left-hand path, are protected from other-selves by a strength and sharpness equivalent to the degree of transformation which the mind has experienced in the negative sense. Those upon the right-hand path have no such protection against other-selves for upon that path the doughty seeker shall find many mirrors for reflection in each other-self it encounters.

Quote:93.8 Questioner: There seems to be no large hint of polarity in this drawing except for the possible coloration of the many cups in the wheel. Part of them are colored black and part are colored white. Would this indicate that each experience has within it the possible negative or positive use of that experience that is randomly generated by this seeming wheel of fortune?

Ra: I am Ra. Your supposition is thoughtful. However, it is based upon an addition to the concept complex which is astrological in origin. Therefore, we request that you retain the concept of polarity but release the cups from their strictured form. The element you deal with is not in motion in its original form but is indeed the abiding sun which, from the spirit, shines in protection over all catalyst available from the beginning of complexity to the discerning mind/body/spirit complex

Quote:95.24Questioner: From that statement I interpret the following. If the Experience of the Mind has sufficiently chosen the right-hand path, and as total purity is approached in the choosing of the right-hand path, then total imperviousness from the effect of the left-hand catalyst is also approached. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is exquisitely perceptive. The seeker which has purely chosen the service-to-others path shall certainly not have a variant apparent incarnational experience. There is no outward shelter in your illusion from the gusts, flurries, and blizzards of quick and cruel catalyst.However, to the pure, all that is encountered speaks of the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator. The cruelest blow is seen with an ambiance of challenges offered and opportunities to come. Thusly, the great pitch of light is held high above such an one so that all interpretation may be seen to be protected by light.

To me this says that the positive polarity is protected to the extent that they can meet STS in love, and probably to the extent that the higher self guides.

(03-29-2011, 12:56 PM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2011, 12:28 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]For sure. Don't forget the fact that a 99% STS entity can flip polarity in an instant and become STO. It's like the prodigal son. It makes no difference. Just come home.

Beyond the 5th, the negative has no other choice too, do they?

It's possible in 3D as well. Both ways. Neg to pos and pos to neg

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(03-29-2011, 01:54 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2011, 01:49 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said people on the STO path are protected to some extent from negative catalyst, people on the STS path aren't.

I thought it was the other way around? As STO is a path of acceptance there is no protection, as one needs nothing to protect the self from, as all is One?

EDIT: Therefore it is required only 51% for graduation to STO, because STO have no protection from negative entities, while STS using separation have the protection....??

I think you're right. Archetypes come to mind. The 2D entity with bow and arrow pointing toward the neg path.

Also, nuclear intervention comes to mind- protecting negs from negs in power struggles.

Acceptance needs no protection, like you said.

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"ra: We now speak of that genie, or elemental, or mythic figure, culturally determined, which sends the arrow to the left-hand transformation. This arrow is not the arrow which kills but rather that which, in its own way, protects. Those who choose separation, that being the quality most indicative of the left-hand path, are protected from other-selves by a strength and sharpness equivalent to the degree of transformation which the mind has experienced in the negative sense. Those upon the right-hand path have no such protection against other-selves for upon that path the doughty seeker shall find many mirrors for reflection in each other-self it encounters."

Now I am completly confused. What turtledude said sounds logical. Then came Phoenix and the quote that I was thinking of writing my previous post was 95.24. But then in the quote provided by turtledude Ra was speakig of Potentiator of the Mind, Tarot, which I have not yet pondered. So I don't know what exact protection they had in mind in this dialogue. Maybe they meant protection as in being in unity with others self, that kind of protection? Which of course STS do not have?

I had a memory of quotes about protection in war situations in the Ra material which I couldn't locate. I've only had a 'false memory' of Ra material once. Sometimes I have dreamt it, isn't that cool

I think 93.8 seems to indicate there is a lot of protection, shines over all, not just a certain archetype.

I don't think bad things only happen to those who karmically deserve them. As in this situation:
(Edit, actually I think karma probably is most often the case)

Quote: 10.15 The civilization was part of this cycle, experienced early within the cycle at a time of approximately 53,000 of your years ago. It was an helpful and harmless place which was washed beneath the ocean during a readjustment of your sphere’s tectonic plates through no action of their own.

Potentiator of the mind is subconscious. The "fruit" resulting from conscious penetrating the potentiator is "protected" for the positive path. I suppose the negative path is free to prostitute or rape the subconscious sea.

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Lots of p. Penetrating the Potentiator is Protected from Prostitution on the Positive Path.

(03-29-2011, 02:05 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]That wouldn't work, STO people are more vulnerable to manipulation, and they only have strength in a community or common support structure of some kind, they need protection to learn how to pay more attention to others and less attention to themselves. Someone on the STS path needs to learn how to fend for themselves at all times, be entirely self sufficient, not trust anyone, etc. so not having protection helps them learn those lessons. And STS is a very unsustainable path, only a small portion of entities can follow it for the universe to work, if it was protected more people would be on it and the universe would go from a Swedish democracy to a third world kleptocratic dictatorship.

I feel there is much truth and eloquence in what you said. I can relate well to it too, since I am from a literal third world kleptocratic dictatorship, which of course masquerades well as a vibrant democracy.

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(03-29-2011, 04:16 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Now I am completly confused

Now that is why I carry the moniker that I do-Confused

(03-29-2011, 09:49 AM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]Over the past year I have noticed a subtle change in how the actions or words of other people affect me. I used to be very sensitive, going over and over comments that could be perceived as critical, analysing those words, trying to understand.

Lately I haven't been doing that and I feel much the better for it. A quote I heard Keisha Crowther say in a video rang a bell of truth for me "It's none of my business what other people think of me". I find that such a powerful concept.

I love Keisha Crowther! As usual, wise words from her.
When I was younger, and someone would say something insulting or nasty to me, I would always take it seriously and think I deserved it, whereas when someone paid me a compliment, I would think "naaa, they probably don't mean it anyway", so low was my self-esteem.
Now I am trying to do it the other way round.

(03-29-2011, 11:28 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]There are too many loopholes in the entire experiment of STO Vs. STS. And it is greatly magnified on our planet, in its present systems and institutions.

there sure is, wrap this around your heads. someone wants to stop talking to me because i'm too pessimistic. we've had several meaningful experiences as friends together, and several fall outs. on one hand this situation hurts me... as it puts me back into the mindset of i'm a social wrecking ball monster unable to get along with anyone.

on another, telling this person how it has hurt my feelings isn't right cause i'm supposed to be responsible for my own emotions. while normally i am happy, but then when i think about that situation, lately it's as if i'm more sensitive to this issue.

on one hand i have to respect this persons free will in choosing to not want to talk with me. on another it makes me feel like i can't trust anyone or let anyone in too close to become my friend cause it's like they will do the same thing. tell me that i'm horrible to be around, and then i'm expected to be just fine and happy. when it all just makes me cry.

why is this planet and it's people so. CRAZY?!? or maybe i'm the crazy one for speaking about this. this person is also on bring 4th and wants to report me over this. i'm not going to reveal who it is for fear of more fighting. but i need to get it out there cause i feel backed into a corner with this situation. I don't have anyone to turn to about it.

Oh dear brother,

You are not expected to be happy and fine. If 3D is expected to be a density of happy and fine then we are all failing it together with you! Cry, brother, if it is how you feel, and be pessimistic if it is how you see it. And if someone doesn't want to be with you because of his/hers own choice, than leave it there - as it is not your choice to separate yourself from anyone, it is theirs. You would do yourself a disservice if you would start to pretend to be someone you are not every time people can't get along with you. (What if there is a crowd and all of them expecting different behaviors from you? You see my point? )

(04-06-2011, 01:57 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote: [ -> ]this person is also on bring 4th and wants to report me over this.

Report you where? To whom? Over what?

Quote:I don't have anyone to turn to about it.

Sure you have! You have a whole forum of compassionate people who would love to reach out when a brother calls for help!

Report? Hahaha. Is this the optimism police station?

My generic advice: part ways on a mutually respectful level.

(04-06-2011, 03:02 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Report? Hahaha. Is this the optimism police station?

My generic advice: part ways on a mutually respectful level.

thanks buddies. momentary relapse in sanity.
it's so sweet u guys replied so quick too.. wow

i've got to run i've got a music for children class. and i have that rebecca black friday friday song stuck in my head.. fun fun fun
oh no...
i mostly have that part stuck in my head playing like a broken record fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun

don't ever listen to that song it will scar you for life. lol

i have umbrella, i think they put STS magic in those songs. i haven't even listened to umbrella yet it pops up in my head. many times a week like scary.

it's not wrong to make someone aware of the affect their actions or decision has had on you, in the sharing you are encouraging a greater awareness and understanding of each other. i do think it would be counter productive to 'blame' another for the emotions you feel
engaging with your own emotions, accepting them, loving your emotional response helps you understand yourself which can only lead to further growth. painful emotions are often the source of great learning. of course you feel sad, you are grieving for a friendship that was important to you

(03-29-2011, 03:12 PM)Phoenix Wrote: [ -> ]To me this says that the positive polarity is protected to the extent that they can meet STS in love, and probably to the extent that the higher self guides.

I like this conclusion, Phoenix.

If I can increase my "purity," I increase my protection. Doesn't mean I won't get into some 3D trouble, but unless the trouble is from pre-programmed karma, I probably will get past it.

The goal of the STS person is to enslave others by pretending to have special knowledge of the universe, or special power over others and willing to share it to chosen followers. Therefore, STS pretenders are in competition with one another. You can't have two people claiming to have special keys to a kingdom--they may team up for a little while, but one will eliminate the other in time--by nature, STS are separatists, not joiners. As soon as he assured himself of power, Josef Stalin murdered his "rivals," some of whom thought they were on his side.

STO folk, OTOH, will enjoy the company of like-minded other selves. They may stumble around in their seeking of truth, but will not feel threatened by each other. In fact, feeling threatened by another indicates a need for some self-examination, IMO.

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(04-06-2011, 01:57 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote: [ -> ]why is this planet and it's people so. CRAZY?!? or maybe i'm the crazy one for speaking about this.

:@ It's called Catalyst! Get used to it, soldier!

In these fora, please speak about anything you want to. Years ago, my company encouraged every engineer to take a course called Team Dynamics. Peers taught the course because bosses were not allowed to attend. One of the best concepts in that course was called Active Listening. The idea was to break down barriers to communication. The active listener followed these guidelines:

• Respect
  
• Reflect
  
• No Solution
  

You start by saying back what you just heard, not sounding at all judgmental. "You're fed up with with Adam's snide remarks."

Reflect means next you try different words to get past the emotion. "He's out to get you, or is he an equal opportunity *sshole?"

No Solution was usually the hardest for engineers because essentially that's our reason for existence: solving problems. You keep the conversation going until the other self comes up with a new approach to try.

In a forum like this, Active Listening is not really doable or appropriate, unfortunately, so I'll offer a solution.

When I'm in a rotten mood, I try to get outside and walk it off. My favorite psychiatrist, Dr. Daniel Amen, said, "Walk like you're late for 45 minutes." While walking, if the world is sunny and beautiful, I will get better with very little effort. Otherwise, I will work on seeing the One in all things.

This is not a cure but, at least for me, it's good therapy. Even if you reject this advice, know that I consider you 100% qualified to be on the planet right now.

(04-11-2011, 01:31 PM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]The goal of the STS person is to enslave others by pretending to have special knowledge of the universe, or special power over others and willing to share it to chosen followers.

That set off quite a few bells ringing in my head about my own self.

I do have the quality of getting threatened by others, big time.

(03-29-2011, 11:28 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2011, 11:22 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]its not that they excluded the possibility of green ray getting muddied though.

I think that is that is why a positive entity within an overwhelmingly negative environment finds its freewill blocked and is thus probably forced to polarize negative. The following extracted from 71.14 -

Quote:Positivity has a much weaker effect due to the strong element of recognition of free will in any positivity approaching purity. Thus although the negatively oriented entity may find it difficult to polarize negatively in the midst of such resounding harmony it will not find it impossible.

Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.

There are too many loopholes in the entire experiment of STO Vs. STS. And it is greatly magnified on our planet, in its present systems and institutions.

I can totally understand what your saying Confused...! Made me think deeply into this loophole aspect...
After all we live in a world of loopholes...cycles. It's what defines infinity and keeps everything (energy) existent.
Without such cycles, everything would be propagating... think of laser beam, only transient and "existing" in an infinitesimal time at a single "point" and diverging away, never converging at a point time/space or itself (or others). But if this laser beam began to cycle, it "exists". I correlate this to the relationship between love and light, light being that linear laser beam and light + love complex being a cycling laser beam.

Indeed loopholes are everywhere, bridging between STO and STS...
It may seem hard to break out of such cycles, but without one the other doesn' exist.
It's like a figure 8. It's hard to literally "break" out of the cycle, but it is easy to quickly transition between the two
Just have to always transition yourself back to what you believe in, universe will always try to balance everything out...
Define your "equilibrium"

(04-13-2011, 03:18 AM)Xenos Wrote: [ -> ]think of laser beam, only transient and "existing" in an infinitesimal time at a single "point" and diverging away, never converging at a point time/space or itself (or others). But if this laser beam began to cycle, it "exists".

Dear Xenos, long time. Welcome back, friend.

Can you please add more around the block of sentences I have picked from out of your post? They sound so very interesting and seem to contain some important insight. I would love to read your thoughts on them further.

I also found the example of 8 wonderful and liked the adage that the universe is constantly trying to balance itself out. Thanks, friend.

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(04-13-2011, 03:18 AM)Xenos Wrote: [ -> ]Define your "equilibrium"

And that is a great catchphrase or slogan. Truly nice.

It would even sound and/or look cool with some corporate logo. Great, Xenos.