There is something that has been bothering me and I need to understand it before I can get over it. There are two paths after 3D which continues til mid 6D. If one chooses the negative one, in 6D you have to switch the polarity if you want to progress. As I understand it there are also no social memory complexes of negatives beyond 4D, which means that negative entities seldom interact with each other in 5/6D. 6D is harvested only in social memory complexes, so I guess that all that have been harvested from negative polarity into 6D join together when they realise that they need to see other selves as the Creator, if they want to be harvested into 7D. So far so good, at least for me. What is bothering me is that Ra also said that 6D lacks polarity (which can be interpreted in various different ways) at the same time as Ra said that 6D negative realise that they have to switch the polarity if they want to progress. What I am wondering is why negative entities would choose a dead end road which will only lead them into a switching the polarity, unless the positive 6D entities switch polarity too (you know like in order to balance or something). What I am really puzzled with is why would anyone choose the dead end road, ie negative path? Why make all the effort if you know that you have to abondon it later? Doesn't ring right to me. Or is it something Ra didn't tell? Or am I missunderstanding something?
I wonder if it's simply spite?
Maybe they feel better testing that theory and forever try to one-up infinity to no avail, or maybe they're just sad emo-kids that kick around being all passive aggressive? Probably both in some cases...
I think you nailed it on the head tho. You can't graduate 6D negative because the base requirement for 6D harvest is being a social memory complex. For a very high-density STS entity to have to rely on others as a basis to graduate would be highly problematic for their polarity, I would assume...
As far as the real heart of your question, after thinking about this I think negatives persist because there is much to learn from the path. They may understand that they will have to switch polarities to graduate once they hit 6D, but that wouldn't invalidate their experience and catalyst experienced in their paths for the betterment of the One Infinite Creator.
An imperfect analogy may be someone who is an atheist following a strict moral code. There is no reason to not live slightly selfishly/narcissistic if you believe in nothing, yet many atheists do adhere to strict moral codes nonetheless. There are callings towards ideas and mindsets that not all of us understand, as we are not called towards them ourselves. I'm on your side tho; I don't understand the STS motivations very much either
There are at least a couple of threads which discuss this topic extensively. Unfortunately I don't remember the thread titles.
But how many entities harvested to fourth density negative are aware of the fact that this is what they will be presented with in sixth density? Remember that third density is where the choice is made, and from 4D onwards one refines one's choice (including possibly change polarity), but 3D is not the density of understanding (so for the majority the choice is made without understanding the entire bigger picture, much less sixth density).
Also, STS is characterised by lies, manipulation, deception, control and hierarchies and most importantly, separation. Ra said that a third density STO entity has access to their sixth density higher self, whereas a third density STS entity doesn't, they are separated. So how many third density STS entities have such knowledge about sixth density when they make the choice in third density, if any. Just a thought.
So basically, what I am proposing, is that you go from the assumption that the choice is made in third density 'with' this knowledge of sixth density, when I think it's maybe rare that such knowledge is posessed by third density harvestable entities.
I could have sworn Don asked this question. I cannot find it though, maybe I'm imagining.
We might be able to draw some clues from this discourse though:
Quote:87.11 Questioner: I’m sorry for getting confused on my question here in not asking it correctly. There is a philosophical point of central importance that I am trying to clear up here. It has to do with the fact that fourth-density negative seems to be aware of the first distortion. They are in a nonveiled condition, and they seem to use this knowledge of the first distortion to maintain the situation that they maintain in contacts with this planet. I am trying to extract their ability to understand the mechanism of the first distortion and the consequences of the veiling process and still remain in a mental configuration of separation on the negative path. I hope that I have made myself clear there. I have had a hard time asking this question.
Ra: I am Ra. The answer may still not satisfy the questioner. We ask that you pursue it until you are satisfied. The fourth-density negative entity has made the choice available to each at third-density harvest. It is aware of the full array of possible methods of viewing the universe of the One Creator and it is convinced that the ignoring and non-use of the green-ray energy center will be the method most efficient in providing harvestability of fourth density. Its operations among those of third density which have not yet made this choice are designed to offer to each the opportunity to consider the self-serving polarity and its possible attractiveness.
It seems that the choice simply appeals to that kind of soul after it awakens. It views the STS path as the most efficient for itself.
I was thinking, though, that maybe STS entities don't necessarily view it as abandoning their polarity? Since in 6D there is no polarity, which implies unity (which is what STO was already about), maybe they just view it as reaching a certain understanding, the common ground between STO and STS. They chose to walk the other path knowing we'd meet...after all, their journey wasn't in vain, because they reached the common destination and are still able to continue towards the One.
(04-02-2011, 03:32 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]But how many entities harvested to fourth density negative are aware of the fact that this is what they will be presented with in sixth density?
Hey sister, yes, I've been thinking about that too, that it might be such a case. But stil, I mean c'mon if this knowledge is available to 3D, it seems very strange that higher densities at least would not heard of it
once. I know, I know, this density is not of understanding, but it doesn't settles in some way for me.
(04-02-2011, 02:49 AM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]As far as the real heart of your question, after thinking about this I think negatives persist because there is much to learn from the path. They may understand that they will have to switch polarities to graduate once they hit 6D, but that wouldn't invalidate their experience and catalyst experienced in their paths for the betterment of the One Infinite Creator.
....................
I don't understand the STS motivations very much either
What you said is their probable motivation, and I have no problems with that. What I don't understand though if they are aware of the dead end of this road, why follow it? Seems strange, like there is some missing piece of information here. There is probably lots of things that we don't know and this is one of them, but I was just wondering that maybe I missed something.
(04-02-2011, 03:55 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]Since in 6D there is no polarity, which implies unity (which is what STO was already about), maybe they just view it as reaching a certain understanding, the common ground between STO and STS.
Exactly! I mean it must be some common knowledge in every density what densities are about in general. 3D=choice. 4D=love. 5D=light. 6D=unity. So following a path that eventually leads to unity, make all that effort, only to abandon it? I just think that there is some big piece of missing information here.
(04-02-2011, 03:56 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]So following a path that eventually leads to unity, make all that effort, only to abandon it?
Ankh, let us think of human life in non-spiritual secular terms, for a moment. Many people only come to know about matters such as reincarnation, etc, at some slightly mature age in life. But almost all know early that we are going to die at some stage.
Then why do still most people attempt to live, study, build careers, maintain matrimony, painstakingly raise their children, age into frail dependent beings, etc? Why not just die without having to go through all the rigmarole? I think if we can dig through that, we might have some clues for your interesting question.
Ankh Wrote:Hey sister, yes, I've been thinking about that too, that it might be such a case. But stil, I mean c'mon if this knowledge is available to 3D, it seems very strange that higher densities at least would not heard of it once. I know, I know, this density is not of understanding, but it doesn't settles in some way for me.
I know, I was just throwing it in there. The creator has two faces, there is so much more we will never grasp while we're in 3D.
Look how Ra tells us about 4D, and yet we can barely conceive of it. I liken it someone trying to explain quamtum physics to a 3 year old.
Is it possible that this information was 'only' parted to 3D 'now' because harvest is approaching, and that this wasn't known further into the 'past' of this cycle?
I would have no idea how much information adepts can access through their disciplines (both STO and STS), because I'm certainly not one!
Confused Wrote:Then why do still most people attempt to live, study, build careers, maintain matrimony, painstakingly raise their children, age into frail dependent beings, etc? Why not just die without having to go through all the rigmarole? I think if we can dig through that, we might have some clues for your interesting question.
Because life is a school, and we can't progess to 4th grade without having acquired the lessons of 3rd grade. Inbetween all that living, studying, working, loving, marrying, joy, sorrow etc. (the manufactured illusion) are the lessons and catalysts for progression - no short cuts. The
choice is made in the midst of that, with the veil intact. Progression is not to be had inbetween incarnations.
The Grand Design of the Logos, getting to know Itself. Sometimes beautiful, sometimes harrowing...
umm sts get their powers first. selfishness is the root of seperation. separation is the lesson learned in duality.
ra spoke of the octave before this one had no STS. however people lacked the gusto to move forward, so it was seen then that STS would be a service to all...
which forces my hand... to discuss the hidden hand.. ha ha get it? lame joke i know.
but Social memory complex lucifer considers it an honor/duty to do STS in order to act as catalyst for unpolarized individuals.
a great example of this is my sister. I don't mean to talk bad of her at all. Umm she just recently got this new laptop, she wants to play the new assassins creed.
I asked her, do you want to play assassins creed because you like the game? or because you like the story? she replied the story. so it made me think why are people drawn to these things in the first place?
When I try to tell her about UFOS she says this doesn't have anything to do with me, it doesn't affect me. I'm like well neither does assassins creed. Assassins Creed btw, is a story about an assassin within the assassins order that opposes the illuminati and the templars. in the story an alien race... comes to earth and creates humanity... and leaves their genetic code in the human race.. ha ha ha
they also leave behind certain alien artifacts of power, which the illuminati in the story are trying to gain posession of. In the present day, the illuminati, start a company called abstergo which is a compartmentalized military industrial complex (sound familiar yet?) which uses technology to access the genetic memory to access the memories of our related ancestors. so they abduct this guy who is the great great great grandson of some assassin named Altair from the assassin order during the crusades.
So I told my sister, what if all of this is true? Why are you so drawn to these games, especially more so knowing it could simply be fiction? Why are people so put off when faced with the same story, except it's not being told as fiction? Why are people so averse to this?
I could go on and on and on about movies that mirror reality. Star wars (The force and the interplay of STO vs STS), Star Trek (Federation of Planets and gaseous anomalies lol), Indiana Jones (nothing but spiritual artifacts from the past, holy grail, crystal skull, ark of the covenant, and what was the other one?) but u guys get my point right?
oops.. i ranted..
(04-02-2011, 05:25 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]I liken it someone trying to explain quamtum physics to a 3 year old.
Yeh probably. I know I should drop it, and I usually do when I see that there is no way to know the answer to it, and it's not important either. But this one was really ennoying... You know, like a persistent mosquito you can't see lying in the bed at night...
Confused Wrote:Then why do still most people attempt to live, study, build careers, maintain matrimony, painstakingly raise their children, age into frail dependent beings, etc? Why not just die without having to go through all the rigmarole? I think if we can dig through that, we might have some clues for your interesting question.
Most of us do things without even considering any of it, we do what we are supposed to do on auto-pilot mode, because we are sleeping. But I mean in 4D there is no veil and still they progress on the path of separation, unless there is something Ra didn't tell.
(04-02-2011, 05:56 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]But I mean in 4D there is no veil and still they progress on the path of separation, unless there is something Ra didn't tell.
Good question. I am stumped on that one.
(04-02-2011, 05:53 AM)BlatzAdict Wrote: [ -> ]but u guys get my point right?
Unfortunately, no.
(04-02-2011, 05:25 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]...no short cuts
Agree wholeheartedly, Spectrum.
(04-02-2011, 05:53 AM)BlatzAdict Wrote: [ -> ]umm sts get their powers first. selfishness is the root of seperation. separation is the lesson learned in duality.
ra spoke of the octave before this one had no STS. however people lacked the gusto to move forward, so it was seen then that STS would be a service to all...
Oh yes I think I know what you are referring to. You're talking about that bit (Book IV I think), about the time before the veil. If I recall correctly, there was indeed no STS then, and hardly any progression.
Very observing, I forgot about that.
It reminded me of this as well:
Book IV, Session 77, February 10, 1982 Wrote:Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality
of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have
the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events
occur as predestined.
There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad.
It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call
Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both
precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions
of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work
and to learn.
So the introduction of STS catapulted progression.
What I found extremely interesting in the Ra material, was how Ra told us that it's all experimentation at some level, and then when the results are unsatisfactory, the experiment is tweaked a little and so forth.
(04-02-2011, 03:32 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said that a third density STO entity has access to their sixth density higher self, whereas a third density STS entity doesn't, they are separated.
Of course they have access to their higher self.
"the Oversoul which makes its understanding available to all who are ready for such aid is towards the positive. However, the free will of the individual is paramount, and any guidance given by the Higher Self may be seen in either the positive or negative polarity depending upon the choice of a mind/body/spirit complex."
(04-02-2011, 05:56 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]But I mean in 4D there is no veil and still they progress on the path of separation, unless there is something Ra didn't tell.
Yet one out of five 4D-negative polarized entities become positive and graduate to 5D positive.
(04-02-2011, 08:04 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 05:56 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]But I mean in 4D there is no veil and still they progress on the path of separation, unless there is something Ra didn't tell.
Yet one out of five 4D-negative polarized entities become positive and graduate to 5D positive.
That's it, zen? Nothing else to add to the topic?
(04-02-2011, 08:25 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing else to add to the topic?
The premise of a 'dead end' would seem to set certain parameters. Repression would seem to be at the heart of the negative path. What is the general mechanism of repression and what reinforces it? It's obviously not lack of knowledge, love, or wisdom that prevents the negative entity from 'seeing' the inherent wholeness or unity in the creation. I think the negative path would be a constant condition of 'seeing what one wants to see', which tends to direct focus. The blinders limit opportunities for discovery of what the ways of positive polarity have to offer.
(04-02-2011, 08:04 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Yet one out of five 4D-negative polarized entities become positive and graduate to 5D positive.
ZM, can you please point me to the relevant quote? I know you must have picked or computed it from the LOO, and thus not contending with the veracity of the statement. Just want to read it for myself.
(04-02-2011, 09:13 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 08:04 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Yet one out of five 4D-negative polarized entities become positive and graduate to 5D positive.
ZM, can you please point me to the relevant quote? I know you must have picked or computed it from the LOO, and thus not contending with the veracity of the statement. Just want to read it for myself.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=47&ss=1#5
Another type of polarity that could be considered a "dead end" is that of the choice of male and female experiential roles. This, along with the service orientation, seems to disolve with the unity attained at late 6D.
The male and female polarity is depicted on the Lovers tarot card as "Transformation of Mind". That dynamic would also seem to be kept in place by 'repression' - either lack of acceptance or lack of control, as "In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned." Why does something need to be abandoned in order to for progress to be made?
(04-02-2011, 09:20 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 09:13 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 08:04 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Yet one out of five 4D-negative polarized entities become positive and graduate to 5D positive.
ZM, can you please point me to the relevant quote? I know you must have picked or computed it from the LOO, and thus not contending with the veracity of the statement. Just want to read it for myself.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=47&ss=1#5
Another type of polarity that could be considered a "dead end" is that of the choice of male and female experiential roles. This, along with the service orientation, seems to disolve with the unity attained at late 6D.
The male and female polarity is depicted on the Lovers tarot card as "Transformation of Mind". That dynamic would also seem to be kept in place by 'repression' - either lack of acceptance or lack of control, as "In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned." Why does something need to be abandoned in order to for progress to be made?
That is cool math on your part, ZM. Thanks.
(04-02-2011, 08:04 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 03:32 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said that a third density STO entity has access to their sixth density higher self, whereas a third density STS entity doesn't, they are separated.
Of course they have access to their higher self.
"the Oversoul which makes its understanding available to all who are ready for such aid is towards the positive. However, the free will of the individual is paramount, and any guidance given by the Higher Self may be seen in either the positive or negative polarity depending upon the choice of a mind/body/spirit complex."
I understand it differently, and should maybe just have worded it differently. Instead of saying they don't have 'access', instead, they choose separation from the oversoul. Here's the whole passage:
Book II, Session 36, March 10, 1981 Wrote:Questioner: Let me take as an example the one that you said was called
Himmler. We are assuming from this that his higher self was of the sixth density
and it was stated that Himmler had selected the negative path.
Would his higher self then dwell in a sixth density negative type of
situation? Can you expand on this concept?
Ra: I am Ra. There are no negative beings which have attained the Oversoul
manifestation, which is the honor/duty of the mind/body/spirit complex
totality, of late sixth-density as you would term it in your time
measurements. These negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complexes have
a difficulty which to our knowledge has never been overcome, for after fifth density
graduation wisdom is available but must be matched with an equal
amount of love. This love/light is very, very difficult to achieve in unity
when following the negative path and during the earlier part of the sixth density,
society complexes of the negative orientation will choose to release
the potential and leap into the sixth-density positive.
Therefore, the Oversoul which makes its understanding available to all who
are ready for such aid is towards the positive. However, the free will of the
individual is paramount, and any guidance given by the higher self may be
seen in either the positive or negative polarity depending upon the choice of
a mind/body/spirit complex.
Questioner: Then using Himmler as an example, was his higher self at the
time he was incarnate in the 1940s a sixth-density positively oriented higher
self?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
Questioner: Was Himmler in any way in contact with his higher self at that
time when he was incarnate during the 1940s?
Ra: I am Ra. We remind you that the negative path is one of separation.
What is the first separation: the self from the self. The one known as
Himmler did not choose to use its abilities of will and polarization to seek
guidance from any source but its conscious drives, self-chosen in the life
experience and nourished by previous biases created in other life
experiences.
Questioner: Well then let’s say that when Himmler reaches sixth-density
negative, would he realize that his higher self was positively oriented and for
that reason make the jump from negative to positive orientation?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The sixth-density negative entity is extremely
wise. It observes the spiritual entropy occurring due to the lack of ability to
express the unity of sixth-density. Thus, loving the Creator and realizing at
some point that the Creator is not only self but other-self as self, this entity
consciously chooses an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may
continue its evolution.
(04-02-2011, 09:20 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Why does something need to be abandoned in order to for progress to be made?
So polarity is abandoned, together with gender and other duality stuff. I see, that means that STS abandon their style of service, and STO might abandon theirs, and everything merge into one same thing... Whatever that means... (Maybe all STO 6D Wanderers were mean STS people in their past, and vice versa?
).
One of the things that surprised me the most in the Ra material was the further along someone is one the path of polarization, the easier it is to switch polarity. The story of the only two entities during Ra's third density experience who graduated to 4D STS fascinated me, because they reached totality in STS in a 'singe' incarnation, when just prior to the the incarnation they were positive 5th density wanderers, with a desire to serve others.
Shows you, third density is another kind of place...
(04-04-2011, 06:16 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]One of the things that surprised me the most in the Ra material was the further along someone is one the path of polarization, the easier it is to switch polarity. The story of the only two entities during Ra's third density experience who graduated to 4D STS fascinated me, because they reached totality in STS in a 'singe' incarnation, when just prior to the the incarnation they were positive 5th density wanderers, with a desire to serve others.
Shows you, third density is another kind of place...
lol!! Yea I was very fascinated by it too. What I also found interesting is that Ra said these Wanderers later switched polarity and joined Ra in 4D+. Why didn't they go "home" instead?
I know, I reread that a few times when I first got there. Wanderers' choices are so varied, some deciding on only a single third density incarnation and then returning, others quite a few. The risks involved in wandering are huge, these two being an example. That 'veil' is the game changer...
Also notice how quickly they attracted followers. Fortunately for the followers, they only experienced some small deepening of the negatively polarized element of those not polarizing positively.. They were basically enslaved and controlled. These two wanderers had much power of personality.
(04-02-2011, 06:00 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 05:56 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]But I mean in 4D there is no veil and still they progress on the path of separation, unless there is something Ra didn't tell.
Good question. I am stumped on that one.
I'm not troubled by the question myself. I think I can see the appeal. It is desire really. Negative enjoys being negative. I can see the appeal of isolation in fifth density, which is what occurs on the neg path- isolation, sitting on a planet staring into space. Enjoying solitude. Sounds peaceful to me. Besides, they must know that balance is needed. Serving self serves others, serving others serves self. Right?
And, who knows, the stronger STO we strive for, we could very well flip one day before death to finish out STS.
Are 4D negatives able to switch to a 4D positive?
It could also happen that we discover ourselves dellusional in thinking that our actions had anything to do with STO polarity. It might even happen that Ra was leading us on this whole time for an experiment or for a needed societal change on the planet- a farce to facilitate a needed paradigm.
Ankh Wrote:Why didn't they go "home" instead?
Well they had to refine their new choice of polarity. They had gone through 4D positive before, not negative, so going back to 5D after switching polarity in 3D wasn't an option, because they had to refine their new choice the way all do, moving to 4D after 3D.
It may well just simply be that they enjoy the darkness, to quote Ra.
Limits can't be placed on infinity, so there are those that will enjoy pain, suffering, and separation because it's possible..not because it's unwise or they are deluded. It just is, because that's the nature of infinity I suppose.
Ra also said that in 4D negative, it's like a gravity well. It is extremely difficult for anyone in 4D- to maintain any positive polarity. It requires a great deal of persistence to even hold a positive polarity. So if one is on a 4D- planet, I don't think they have a choice. The gravity/pull of the planet keeps anyone from going positive.
I found the quote (From 70.23):
The entity which incarnates into negative space/time will not find it possible to maintain any significant positive polarity as negativity, when pure, is a type of gravity well, shall we say, pulling all into it. Thus the entity, while remembering its learned and preferred polarity, must needs make use of the catalyst given and recapitulate the lessons of service to self in order to build up enough polarity in order to cause the potential to occur for reversal.
And from 70.24
Upon the other hand, the negative polarization is one which does not accept the concept of the free will of other-selves. Thusly in a social complex whose negativity approaches purity the pull upon other-selves is constant. A positively oriented entity in such a situation would desire for other-selves to have their free will and thusly would find itself removed from its ability to exercise its own free will, for the free will of negatively oriented entities is bent upon conquest.
(04-02-2011, 06:00 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2011, 05:56 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]But I mean in 4D there is no veil and still they progress on the path of separation, unless there is something Ra didn't tell.
Good question. I am stumped on that one.
(04-04-2011, 11:30 AM)Derek ~ Wrote: [ -> ]It may well just simply be that they enjoy the darkness, to quote Ra.
Limits can't be placed on infinity, so there are those that will enjoy pain, suffering, and separation because it's possible..not because it's unwise or they are deluded. It just is, because that's the nature of infinity I suppose.
How about that? Never think of it like that... Do you remember that quote by Ra?
@Wolf, thanks brother. It explains it very well.
(04-04-2011, 09:53 AM)Spectrum Wrote: [ -> ]Ankh Wrote:Why didn't they go "home" instead?
Well they had to refine their new choice of polarity. They had gone through 4D positive before, not negative, so going back to 5D after switching polarity in 3D wasn't an option, because they had to refine their new choice the way all do, moving to 4D after 3D.
But I mean, after they switch to the polarity where they belonged, that is after they abandoned 4D-, why did they join Ra: s 4D+ instead of going home?