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Sure. No one's saying to skip love, but to love yourself and others. You often speak broadly. Let's not forget that the negative path is also simultaneously separating itself from others.
lol had to edit that..WHOOPS
(05-04-2011, 01:54 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]If you are trying to argue that all that is needed to enter into 4d is love, then I agree. If someone is able to recognize wisdom an integrate it however..there is nothing wrong with being able to integrate faster! In 4d, while being love you are also striving towards wisdom. Much like in 3d we are striving towards love.
Exactly.
In addition, many of us are probably Wanderers. Are we to set aside what we learned in 4D, 5D, or 6D?
If we feel so inclined as to incorporate wisdom into our choices, then that must mean we have either previously learned wisdom in our home density, or are learning wisdom now. If we reject that wisdom, we aren't being true to our own path.
If we intentionally reject wisdom in order to expedite harvest to 4D, then it seems to me that could backfire, because trying to accelerate our own harvestability could actually be STS, thus doing the opposite of what we intended. Whereas, if we just focus on doing what is best, what is most appropriate, for that particular situation, and focus on loving/serving others while being true to our highest values, which may include the balancing of love and wisdom, then that will have the effect of actually increasing our polarity. Whether it be 4D or 5D doesn't matter, since we don't really know what our home density is anyway. So all we can do is strive for the highest choice possible. If that means wisdom, then so be it.
(05-04-2011, 01:54 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]If you are trying to argue that all that is needed to enter into 4d is love, then I agree. If someone is able to recognize wisdom an integrate it however..there is nothing wrong with being able to integrate faster! In 4d, while being love you are also striving towards wisdom. Much like in 3d we are striving towards love.
Certainly. Nothing is wrong.
In 3D, we are trying to choose between two ways to love. As the Transformation of the Mind suggests, many of us are tangled within, and we rock back and forth pos. to neg. It is not until we abandon one way completely that the Choice has been made. This requires no wisdom whatsoever, only conscious activity.
A wanderer did not make a decision to incarnate here out of wisdom. A wanderer incarnated because they were overwhelmed with love for the One in this planetary sphere.
(05-04-2011, 02:15 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Whereas, if we just focus on doing what is best, what is most appropriate, for that particular situation, and focus on loving/serving others while being true to our highest values, which may include the balancing of love and wisdom, then that will have the effect of actually increasing our polarity.
Moreover, even if we make mistakes with loving intentions, this can't be a bad thing. In that sense, as long as you are attempting to integrate what you know up until that point you will be fine. This is how the process works..making mistakes and learning!
(05-04-2011, 02:15 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]A wanderer did not make a decision to incarnate here out of wisdom. A wanderer incarnated because they were overwhelmed with love for the One in this planetary sphere.
The initial reason is to serve, yes, but they also use the opportunity to exercise their understandings and balance themselves. Ra stated this but I can't remember the exact words to look it up.
Certainly. There are no bad things.
I don't wish to degrade anyone's justifications for remaining in the teetering entanglementof choice. I, in fact, am well aware of my own teetering. I don't think I would continue to desire that my words be heard on this forum if I had made my choice. My very writing is serving my self rather than an other.
But, I am here. I am trying to reveal my own understanding that justifications are not part of choosing. Justifications contribute to teetering. All is well. This is why I am not a wanderer. This is why I will not be graduating at this go-round.
Explain how you view teetering. Define it I guess. You can radiate a lot of love and still protect yourself.
Why do you think you won't be graduating?
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. We shall. The concept of the pull towards mental polarity may well be examined in the light of what the student has already accreted concerning the nature of the conscious, exemplified by the male, and the unconscious, exemplified by the female. Indeed, both the prostituted and the virginal deep mind invite and await the reaching.
In this image of Transformation of Mind, then, each of the females points the way it would go, but is not able to move, nor are the two female entities striving to do so. They are at rest. The conscious entity holds both and will turn itself one way or the other or, potentially, backwards and forwards, rocking first one way then the other and not achieving the transformation. In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned.
(05-04-2011, 01:55 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]We are also told that it is the negative path that tries to skip over love to reach wisdom. Alas, they fail and find only a desire to preserve the self not realizing that this is their expression of love.
Love of self is love. Love is the logos. Why do you think negative and positive grapple with each other? They each express the love lacking in the other, of course.
But once you have love, wisdom awaits.
As Mandelker wrote:
"Only the deepest love accepts complete wisdom,
And only the deepest wisdom expresses total love."
(05-04-2011, 09:39 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Love of self is love. Love is the logos. Why do you think negative and positive grapple with each other? They each express the love lacking in the other, of course.
But once you have love, wisdom awaits.
As Mandelker wrote:
"Only the deepest love accepts complete wisdom,
And only the deepest wisdom expresses total love."
Good lord, this post of yours just swept me off my feet! A powerful post. Thanks, zenmaster. I learned a great lesson today.
(05-04-2011, 09:39 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (05-04-2011, 01:55 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]We are also told that it is the negative path that tries to skip over love to reach wisdom. Alas, they fail and find only a desire to preserve the self not realizing that this is their expression of love.
Love of self is love. Love is the logos. Why do you think negative and positive grapple with each other? They each express the love lacking in the other, of course.
But once you have love, wisdom awaits.
As Mandelker wrote:
"Only the deepest love accepts complete wisdom,
And only the deepest wisdom expresses total love."
yes. I know this.
That is an awesome quote. (as in very inspiring, not as in inspiring awe
)
I see. I'm just wondering if what I describe about blending love/wisdom..if you view that as teetering?
Balanced unity and love is at 6D
There you accept and embrace your negative self completely.
You accept you were not just light but also darkness so this sort of nullifies positive side as opposed to another side.
In turn the negative stops being negative, finally the need to control and fear disappeared.
The poles are no more.
Now you are not polarized anymore, you just are joyful light(you could call light information) knowing itself.
In another words we are the distortion itself that experiences, the distortion is the experience with everything it brings.
Once you start turning back to the "creator" you lose the sense of self and dives into stillness towards a new octave (who knows ?)
Maybe just maybe 3Dmonkey you are being to harsh with yourself perhaps ?
(05-05-2011, 12:50 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]I see. I'm just wondering if what I describe about blending love/wisdom..if you view that as teetering?
Yes, I think I do. I think wisdom, as it is used in this thread, is a justification for remaining in the teetering entanglement. I'm not sure I could recognize true wisdom. I mean we just discussed that Jesus wasn't wise. Jesus! A guy who has obviously reached higher than any of us. (unless you believe yourself a higher density wanderer, to which I cannot relate).
I do believe I understand the Transformation of the Mind. I haven't fully applied it yet.
(05-05-2011, 02:06 AM)drifting pages Wrote: [ -> ]In turn the negative stops being negative, finally the need to control and fear disappeared.
Control yes, but is 'fear' really an integral part of the drive in higher densities, be it positive or negative? In 3rd density, we have fear mainly due to interaction with the unconscious mind, and that mainly due to the veil.
Separation and all the emotions that come with it are at their base driven by fear.
Negative polarity has fear based belief systems and therefore is oriented no matter the level of awareness in this way.
In 6th density this finally starts to be counter productive to evolution.
In the other hand the same separation is what allows for a variety of infinite experiences and great potential for endless joy of becoming.
Separation allows for creation , the movement between separated/integrated is the dance with mirrors of light.
It is interesting that fear caused by separation, or the illusion thereof, could also be described as the lack of faith to step out into the unknown. Since it is unknown it is separate. Overcoming this fear, all fear, is a step toward accepting that all is One, that all will be okay, that each unknown venture stepped into becomes then known and the ultimate purpose is the Creator, Us, knowing ItSelf.
(05-05-2011, 07:59 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I think I do. I think wisdom, as it is used in this thread, is a justification for remaining in the teetering entanglement. I'm not sure I could recognize true wisdom. I mean we just discussed that Jesus wasn't wise. Jesus! A guy who has obviously reached higher than any of us. (unless you believe yourself a higher density wanderer, to which I cannot relate).
I do believe I understand the Transformation of the Mind. I haven't fully applied it yet.
I think you view what is being said too broadly. Wisdom isn't about holding a great amount of love back, or tip-toeing on a line where you possibly serve more of yourself than others. Wisdom simply maximizes the efficiency of the actions of love so you don't cross over into the area of neglecting the self. Teetering a line of self-service where it is greater than serving others, and protecting the self of neglect are two very different things.
An entity with love/wisdom doesn't mean they lack love. They take their loving nature, and learn when to add wisdom to it at the appropriate times.
For instance, in my situation that I described..I gave gave gave. She gladly took. In exercising acceptance, this was ok because I hoped that my loving actions would cause change. I was happy to give and love her, able to sacrifice my ideals in a partner that I wanted and accept her for who she is. Eventually it got to a point where I saw she wasn't going to change and she crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed.
Pure compassion would have continued to sacrifice my mental happiness while continuing to work with her naivety. I instead chose to love myself, and recognize that this is not a situation I desired to be in.
I recognized the wisdom in knowing that transformation comes from within, and that there is only so much of yourself that can be given that is useful. I could have continued to be an example of love, but she will not change until she decides to. So I walked away.
Did I necessarily lack a great amount of love in that situation? Of course not..I was very loving. I just recognized when to use wisdom and love myself.
In terms of Jesus..It says that he was able to graduate into 5th density if he chose to. He instead chose to incarnate for a specific mission. So I'm not sure exactly what connections you're trying to make between Jesus and wisdom in his actions.
Ra said "There is no wisdom in this plan but rather understanding and compassion extended to its fullest perfection." I certainly wasn't dissing Jesus..just giving an extreme example of the differences
(05-05-2011, 11:55 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Wisdom isn't about holding a great amount of love back, or tip-toeing on a line where you possibly serve more of yourself than others. Wisdom simply maximizes the efficiency of the actions of love so you don't cross over into the area of neglecting the self. Teetering a line of self-service where it is greater than serving others, and protecting the self of neglect are two very different things.
An entity with love/wisdom doesn't mean they lack love. They take their loving nature, and learn when to add wisdom to it at the appropriate times.
For instance, in my situation that I described..I gave gave gave. She gladly took. In exercising acceptance, this was ok because I hoped that my loving actions would cause change. I was happy to give and love her, able to sacrifice my ideals in a partner that I wanted and accept her for who she is. Eventually it got to a point where I saw she wasn't going to change and she crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed.
Pure compassion would have continued to sacrifice my mental happiness while continuing to work with her naivety. I instead chose to love myself, and recognize that this is not a situation I desired to be in.
I recognized the wisdom in knowing that transformation comes from within, and that there is only so much of yourself that can be given that is useful. I could have continued to be an example of love, but she will not change until she decides to. So I walked away.
Did I necessarily lack a great amount of love in that situation? Of course not..I was very loving. I just recognized when to use wisdom and love myself.
In terms of Jesus..It says that he was able to graduate into 5th density if he chose to. He instead chose to incarnate for a specific mission. So I'm not sure exactly what connections you're trying to make between Jesus and wisdom in his actions.
Ra said "There is no wisdom in this plan but rather understanding and compassion extended to its fullest perfection." I certainly wasn't dissing Jesus..just giving an extreme example of the differences
Icaro, you did it again!
Hehe
Do you not think that your expectation robbed her of receiving love? Did the expectation of her choice place yourself in a position of rejecting her? Were you giving her what she needed or were you giving her what you thought would mold her into your vision for her?
Alas, as there is nothing wrong or right, your final rejection of her is what she truly "needed" all along. This does not make one wise. And if it is done for the love of oneself, in conscious application, then it is, in fact, love for oneself.
The distinction is clear. The teetering continues.
She was very unloving, selfish, and harsh. I had hoped that in being an example of acceptance and loving her imperfections, she would open up and return that love by accepting me. There was no molding her. Without details I'm sure you won't agree, so I'll just leave it at that.
There was no rejection either. I accept who she is and I am able to have love for her, but I do not have the willingness to put myself through the high level of stress involved in that kind of relationship. I have already learned those lessons. I'm here for other reasons.
Interestingly enough, my walking away finally forced her to truly look at herself and make some changes. This was my hope. Continuing to enable behavior isn't 'total love'. Total love is honest and forces you to face what you don't want to. I had come to the conclusion that in walking away, it would be symbolic of her not accepting me. In this way, I could also stop enabling her. This is the combination of compassion and wisdom. Keep in mind that we have since spoken and come to some understandings, so there has been no rejection.
(05-05-2011, 01:12 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Continuing to enable behavior isn't 'total love'.
Exactly!
:exclamation:
(05-05-2011, 12:23 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]The distinction is clear. The teetering continues.
It is not teetering my friend. Integrating wisdom does not mean you are moving towards the negative polarity away from serving others.
You are harmonizing the boundaries between self and other self so that acts reflect unison. It is the integration of unity within yourself. Because in 3d, acting towards an other self to not allow them to
completely tread on your self, is to invoke the symbolic act of balance between all selves involved. You aren't serving yourself in any kind of majority at all. You can serve another and reserve a small part of yourself when necessary.
In unity, a situation isn't just about one person now is it? Unity radiates service to others, but it also must harmonize all selves involved.
I can radiate and serve you above all else. You too can radiate and serve me above all else also. We certainly aren't going to fight over who serves the most for who, so you come to a meeting point where you mutually harmonize what each needs, together. In 3d, you reflect this symbolically by having love for your self when it is necessary.
(05-05-2011, 01:12 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]She was very unloving, selfish, and harsh. I had hoped that in being an example of acceptance and loving her imperfections, she would open up and return that love by accepting me. There was no molding her. Without details I'm sure you won't agree, so I'll just leave it at that.
There was no rejection either. I accept who she is and I am able to have love for her, but I do not have the willingness to put myself through the high level of stress involved in that kind of relationship. I have already learned those lessons. I'm here for other reasons.
Interestingly enough, my walking away finally forced her to truly look at herself and make some changes. This was my hope. Continuing to enable behavior isn't 'total love'. Total love is honest and forces you to face what you don't want to. I had come to the conclusion that in walking away, it would be symbolic of her not accepting me. In this way, I could also stop enabling her. This is the combination of compassion and wisdom. Keep in mind that we have since spoken and come to some understandings, so there has been no rejection.
That's not wisdom.
It took you awhile to realize what needed to happen. You finally succumbed to the universal energy.
From there, you have a conscious choice to apply. I'm not going to assess what you decided in your life. Especially not here.
I would like you to consider that it is not your own justification of wisdom that directed you. Wisdom is a higher order of perception than 3D. "we don't got it", you might say.
There is only the interplay between self and other self as self. Balancing those two interactions, and 'what needs to happen' is harmonization. That is love/wisdom.
What you call teetering is someone who can't decided if the self or other self is more important than the other.
The Transformation of the Mind occurs with every conscious dip into unconscious which creates catalyst that expresses experience becoming significator then transforming.
How this exactly translates into polarized choice, I don't fully understand.
One thing seems obviously clear to me, though. Loving self is loving self and not wisdom, and if I am continually doing both - loving other then loving self then ... then..., I am teetering.
Transformation of the Mind, as I understand it is simply the learning that is realized in regards to Oneness.
There is only one self, you know that. That is why if you neglect yourself in extreme cases at the cost of others you are not achieving balance, because you are neglecting an aspect of the One. This state of neglect is only approached when it is detrimental to your service or if you are withholding truth/not being honest. What is being suggested is to not be selfish and picky with your service. Serve others and break a sweat, placing others above yourself. In the process, you simply nurture your soul and be kind to it.
That is a very sweet way to look at it. I don't think it is the way it works.
Ra stated that it's not only acceptable, but necessary, to love self in order to be harvestable to 4D STO.
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