(04-29-2011, 10:49 PM)LsavedSmeD Wrote: [ -> ]These are all very well rounded answers how ever none of them explain the reasoning of "how" Infinity became aware or why. What was the moment or reasoning for that awareness coming to the Infinite One. If there is a still see what caused that still sea to begin to stir. There was stillness before there was a sea, what stirred that stillness up?
it did not happen. it is a state of existence, ever present at that continuum. right below infinity, there is that continuum, everexisting.
right below infinite intelligence, there is the first central sun, the first ever logos. and so it goes.
very probably, the sea has been stirred by separation of two polarities. the early stages of this stirring, or, one of the polarities, is infinite intelligence.
(04-29-2011, 11:02 PM)Azrael Wrote: [ -> ]From the view of Infinite wouldn't it all be simultaneous? I mean that in the manner of the simultaneous functions of the body. The past must exist so that the future can exist, the present is the fragile center point which is the point of "reflection". It is through the entity experience that the future and past reflect in to the one present.
simultaneous is also a concept that is part of infinity, just like its opposite. however, for explanation we can take it that way. in fact, there is no simultaneity - its like different stages of being in different points. all points exist forever, if the perceptive focus of consciousness looks at them one by one.
this is also a reason how entities from later octaves, can come visit this one.
(04-29-2011, 11:35 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]That is understood, but in your analogy, the sea was not "always like that." First it was still, and then there was motion. The sea analogy projects a linear timeline on this awareness. I understand if you were using it as an over-simplification to explain a basically unexplainable topic, but the heart of the topic is, "what caused the motion in the sea?" Does the question force us to abandon this analogy?
sea is still like that. at the point infinity, it is perfectly still. at point infinite intelligence, it is wavy. go down and down, you find us at a certain point.
if you were able to detach you consciousness, somehow, and go to point infinite intelligence, you would see that it was 'stirred', 'now'. but, that 'now' is meaningless there, since it is a state of being/not being, and not relevant to our time directly.
you would see that infinite intelligence was wavy, BEFORE and AFTER all these (what we are living) had had happened, right at that point in time.
and when you went downwards to states of being that is our existential vicinity, you would find us, being as we are, at this point in time.
Quote:From that point of view, perhaps an equally valid and perplexing question would be, "what caused unawareness?"
nothing causes it. awareness and unawareness are opposite and complementary parts of infinity.
(04-29-2011, 11:58 PM)Azrael Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is relevant?
"Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?
Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack of free will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced."
"Questioner: In other words you are saying that originally the Logoi that did not choose this free will path did not choose it simply because they had not conceived of it and that later Logoi, extending the first distortion farther down through their evolution, experienced it as an outcropping or growth from that extension of the first distortion. Am I correct in saying that?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes."
No awareness until it was thought of?
that is not relevant. that pertains to our local focus as consciousness. and with 'our' local focus, i dont mean you and me, but ALL of us who are participating in this creation. we, as focus, did not know these before this point of being. however, we have passed that state of being in this creation, and now, we are in a state of being which includes those and enhanced by it. this will go on infinitely until we reach infinity.
(04-30-2011, 12:24 AM)LsavedSmeD Wrote: [ -> ]An interesting aspect that I found to have some congruency to this thread is existence and non existence.
There is no such thing as "non-existence" in a reality of existence. For example, you will not cease to exist because you as an entity, an essence of existence, cannot ever be anything other than existence. If you were somehow of non-existence you would never exist to begin with. This would mean that Awareness did not just "pop" into existence it's already there. Just in potentiation - merely up to the observer to acknowledge awareness.
But what causes such an acknowledgement is far beyond my rational mind to comprehend, all I can do is wonder in awe at such a precise and beautiful moment realizing such awareness must be.
what you call 'entity' is something that has only come into being with the discovery of the concept 'finite'. and if existence is the definition of this, then, yes, there is nonexistence.
and if went to state of infinite intelligence, and infinite intelligence is defined as existing, then it means, it did not exist before this point, since there was only infinity.
to complement it to infinity, there has to be something to complement it.
in the case of infinity, the concept 'existence' becomes just a concept among infinity. for its balancing, a concept balancing it out must exist. and if existence is defined as such, the complementary opposite of it could be defined as non-existence.
nothing is valid at point infinity. they are all complemented by their counterparts.
(04-30-2011, 03:23 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]It was proposed that infinity contains both awareness, and unawareness..the idea that infinity must contain everything and its opposite. I agree that infinity must contain all, but I don't think it contains awareness and unawareness. I think this is an over-analytical answer that is illogical. It certainly can't be stated as fact. It is only a theoretical assumption that I don't agree with. There would be no reason for any work to be carried out and would remain in that state forever.
if infinity did not contain ANYthing, then it wouldnt be infinite.
anything you can think of, has to be found in infinity. else, its infinite no more.
Quote:This quote above is from the other thread. Infinity is most definitely being "interacted" with though. What's being overlooked in the above statement is that in between infinity and infinite intelligence is awareness. Ra says that infinity became aware, THEN this awareness was focused into infinite intelligence which is where the work takes place.
the proposal contradicts itself - interaction, is another state of existence, a concept, that exists. it is only possible by existence. and further, the definition of interact, implies cause effect relationships, because else there wouldnt be any interaction in between anything.
so, interaction is also a concept which starts below infinity, with infinite intelligence.
Quote:How can anything move forward out from infinity if it's impossible to interact with? Infinity remains only as a source, but there is a direct channel, a communication going on and it is through its own awareness that makes this possible.
because it didnt move forward out of infinity. it is a separation of infinity into two concepts, one being itself, and the other being its opposite. it is a state of infinity, below infinity. we call it infinite intelligence.
infinity is impossible to interact with, because it includes all the interactions and their counterparts in complement. therefore, its effect is null.
moreover, naturally, it is at a point in existence that is above this separation of infinite intelligence, and its counterpart. therefore, the concept we describe as 'interaction', remains below it, in the state of matters at infinite intelligence or lower.
Quote:Well there is infinity, and the central sun. These two seem to always exist from that point forward, as everything periodically coalesces into the central sun and free will once again lays in potential.
central sun is the first logos that is below infinite intelligence. at infinite intelligence, that central sun spread out and coalesced infinitely, and now there exists infinite intelligence.
at point infinity, all these are null and void, and they are all true.
Quote:It's illogical to say the following, given that the explanation Ra gave us was explained linearly.....the finites wouldn't exist yet, but there may be some crazy mysteriousness happening where the finites from the future influence infinity into awareness so they can be manifested.
ra explained a lot of timeless concepts, linearly.
as i mentioned, if you go to point infinity, you will find infinite intelligence coming into being in stages below it. at that point, all what you speak of, finites being discovered, creations being created, are going to happen, and is happening, and will happen. infinite intelligence, is the full result, AND the origin of all these.
point above infinite intelligence, there is infinity, still, and the state of existence and nonexistence, and all other dualities, are at complete balance, and the concept balance is also in complete balance with its counterpart, total imbalance or chaos, and therefore, there is mysterious and infinite infinity.
go down, and you will see existence/nonexistence separate and branch out. go up, and you will see they combine and harmonize.
Quote:In this way, I guess I would take back my earlier thought process and say that within infinity, potential awareness and nothingness does exist, but not in the sense that infinity is forever a void that is always separate which is what was being debated in the other thread. Infinity contains all. The infinity is the creation.
the above argument fails at the point that, for infinity to be infinite, it has to NOT be a void, and be a void at the same time. infinity, also, has to contain all, and not contain anything, at the same time.
but infinity isnt the creation - creation is infinite, neverending, but, infinity is not the creation. it is also the creation, but there are infinite mysteries inside it, and creation is only a part of infinity.