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Ok the ascension concept has always niggled me quite a bit.

Last night I did some searching inside and hit on a couple of concepts that help me understand this phenomenon.

What I got out of it is that those beings that have evolved or grew through the densities have the ability to ascend, which is to skip from this density through all others to their higher density, freeing themself from the bonds of karma that they are subjected to by returning here to help us.

Myself being 3rd is only going to evolve to 4th density, being the next stage of my evolution, no real "ascension" is remotely possible for me. It would appear that the label ascension is only applied to those that mastered all densities returning to help, and then remembering who they are enabling them to "go home" without having to take the full pathway of evolution. People are taking the concept and changing it to glorify the term as a buzz word.
(08-02-2011, 10:56 AM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]Ok the ascension concept has always niggled me quite a bit. Last night I did some searching inside and hit on a couple of concepts that help me understand this phenomenon.

If I might add some thoughts, why would you need to 'be something else'? By which I mean, if all is one and your inherent nature is oneness, how can you 'ascend' from the one being you already are?

Does not 'ascension' imply separation, ie., that you are not one? Do you/we need to 'ascend' to become something you/we are not? If you are not this 'special thing' you want to be, then however can you change to become that thing?

May I suggest that only ego - that part of us which sees everything in separation - can have these thoughts. Ego is useful and necessary to live in this level of being, but chasing its thoughts too far is such a waste of time!
Well I am here for a reason, and continue on that path of reason.

I can say everything is connected, but to say all is one and I can sit on my thumbs is actually apathy and stagnation, meaning that you can choose to be in your particular position of 3D experience for millions of years, or even billions, just being moved from planet to planet that can host the 3D experience, until such time as you begin to seek.

I am not trying to change, but only to grow. I am happy with "what" I am and "where" I am (earth) but I have an instinctive drive to seek.
to me ascension is the same as harvest, going up to 4th or above, depending on your wanderer "status" and karmic crap. and i don't think going up in densities is separation it's just gaining more density and spiritual mass, while those who less dense can't see all your layers because they aren't there yet.
you're not going anywhere, you're becoming more.
(08-02-2011, 11:36 AM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]I can say everything is connected, but to say all is one and I can sit on my thumbs is actually apathy and stagnation.

Might I suggest that saying everything is connected but that it means 'sitting on your thumbs' shows that the experience of oneness eludes you..? When oneness is known and experienced there can be no thought of apathy, stagnation, and so on. In fact, such thoughts are only ego not experiencing oneness, and thus seeing separation as stagnant or needing a call to action.

Quote:I am not trying to change, but only to grow. I am happy with "what" I am and "where" I am (earth) but I have an instinctive drive to seek.

Bearing in mind the former ideas I suggest, is not the 'drive to seek' only the ego seeing that something needs to be sought in order to be 'ok', to be 'happy', to be 'one'..?

I hope my thoughts do not sound like an attempt to be mysterious. Ego is a part of us which sees everything as separate, and a part of us which is essential. But when all of our waking moments are filtered through our ego we are constantly bombarded with thoughts of what is needed, what we should or must do, not do, and so on.

When we retire into stillness, we may experience oneness, and in that oneness all is present. There is no need to 'be' something, to 'achieve' something, to 'ascend' from what we are into something different. May I suggest that in stillness we find that we are everything we always are and ever need to be. We find oneness and true realisation.
Sounds like a description of a virtual stop sign Tongue
Hmm, what you are describing sounds more like the middle path.
(08-02-2011, 01:31 PM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]Sounds like a description of a virtual stop sign Tongue
Hmm, what you are describing sounds more like the middle path.

Might I suggest that for our ego, yes; it IS a virtual STOP sign. Ego cannot bear the thought of 'not doing'. Ego thinks that the only way to 'be' anything is to 'do' something. The need to 'be' something implies dissatisfaction with what already is, yes? And only ego - the need to be unhappy with what is - makes us feel that something must be done in order to be 'ok'.

Middle path? What path? If we are in this state of being and other states of being, what path can there be? Where would we be 'going', exactly..? Let me suggest that when any 'path' is examined it turns out to be nothing more than imagination.

3DMonkey

It's all becoming imagination for me

we "do" in order to avoid (blank). We see accepting the moment as a possibility that we might be confronted with something we don't want to say "yes" to. We perpetually wave our finger, saying "no, not in my world".
Quote:81.16 Questioner: Ra states that it has knowledge of only this octave, but it seems that Ra has complete knowledge of this octave.

Can you tell me why this is?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we do not have complete knowledge of this octave. There are portions of the seventh density which, although described to us by our teachers, remain mysterious. Secondly, we have experienced a great deal of the available refining catalyst of this octave, and our teachers have worked with us most carefully that we may be one with all, that in turn our eventual returning to the great all-ness of creation shall be complete.

81.17 Questioner: Then Ra has knowledge from the first beginnings of this octave through its present experience and what I might call direct or experiential knowledge through communication with those space/times and time/spaces, but has not yet evolved to or penetrated the seventh level. Is this a roughly correct statement?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

81.18 Questioner: Why does Ra not have any knowledge of that which was prior to the beginning of this octave?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us compare octaves to islands. It may be that the inhabitants of an island are not alone upon a planetary sphere, but if an ocean-going vehicle in which one may survive has not been invented, true knowledge of other islands is possible only if an entity comes among the islanders and says, “I am from elsewhere.” This is a rough analogy. However, we have evidence of this sort, both of previous creation and creation to be, as we in the stream of space/time and time/space view these apparently non-simultaneous events.

So while you may want to feel one-ness you have yet to pay your rent/mortgage, pay other bills, most likely have to go to work, and pretty much have to DO in order to exist in a position to BE, just one of those many reasons for the choice to be made to come here and experience catalyst. I make choices based on previous choices, while attempting to separate my EGO/OS from the control of the rulers. As long as the EGO is mine and under my control I should have fully valid choices to make, rather than the choices of what brand clothing, what movie to see, what options come with my vehicle, what side of the political spectrum I decide to follow, and who I want to be just like. The ego is a simple program which is not the source of my seeking, but rather the driver of the vehicle that will get me there.
Well, I do not understand except to say that you have proven the point, so thank you.

Later edit...

Pickle Wrote:So while you may want to feel one-ness you have yet to pay your rent/mortgage, pay other bills, most likely have to go to work, and pretty much have to DO in order to exist in a position to BE, just one of those many reasons for the choice to be made to come here and experience catalyst.

You gave me cause to consider Pickle, so I thought a considered response would not be amiss.

My original answer could be taken as sardonic, though it was not meant that way. By 'ego' I mean that part of us which sees everything as separate. Nothing wrong with that as it is a necessary part of us, but ego cannot understand oneness. If as Ra and others say all is one, then paying the rent and bills, having a job, etc., are all by definition part of oneness. There is no separation, only that which is perceived as separation, yes?

I would suggest that Ra and others have had to tailor their language and terminology to fit minds who's ego is more in control than not. Thus, the concept of oneness is simplified and considered by the ego, but not necessarily experienced by the being considering the concept. Thus oneness is not seen and felt, but conceived of in the mind via the filter of ego which sees only separation. In order for ego to feel comfortable, it says, "Ah yes, I see!" when in fact it does not. This is why so many people claim to have had inspiration or enlightenment when in fact they have nothing more than a flash of ego trying to grasp something it never will.

(Apologies; I was editing when I saw your additional post).

Yes, there can be many descriptions of ego, so I can only clarify that my intended meaning is that part of us which of necessity sees separation in all things. When we disagree, it is only because two little egos see things differently, whereas as enlightened beings we would merely smile and know that in The One as Ra would say, there can be no disagreement. Disagreement and confusion are just perceived distortions.

And in the distortions we perceive, I appreciate your points! Smile
I am in the same boat. I do not understand your view because i see from a different angle.

I also see that there are two different descriptions of ego. My own description is the programming needed to have you function in sync with the particular society you are born into.
3DMonkey Wrote:It's all becoming imagination for me. we "do" in order to avoid (blank). We see accepting the moment as a possibility that we might be confronted with something we don't want to say "yes" to. We perpetually wave our finger, saying "no, not in my world".

Your thoughts made me smile (or rather, I chose to smile at what I perceived in those words). Lots of no's in there, yes?

I find that in oneness all is acceptable, yet not all is to be aligned with by myself as an individual. One well known spiritual teacher said that there is no evil, only enlightenment and ignorance. (We could of course pick that statement to bits, but in doing so all that would be left is cold tasteless bones). Ra suggests that 'good' and 'evil' are chosen paths, yet in stating that all is one, Ra is also saying implicitly that there are no paths, only perceived paths. I like the Law of One materials simply because they ring true with my own experience. If they did not, why would I bother reading more or joining these forums?

My ego, that part of me which sees separation in everything, likes the idea of 'ascension'. Something to be chosen and worked hard for, something to perhaps be a little evangelical about, giving me cause to feel good about spreading the word, perhaps joining in with others to extend the feeling of 'being right'. But having had to listen to my little ego for a long time, and now knowing oneness, I can smile and let it rest peacefully.

If all is one and I know from repeating experience that this is so, how and why would I need to 'ascend'? What more could I become than who and what I am in oneness?

3DMonkey

(08-02-2011, 05:49 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]
3DMonkey Wrote:It's all becoming imagination for me. we "do" in order to avoid (blank). We see accepting the moment as a possibility that we might be confronted with something we don't want to say "yes" to. We perpetually wave our finger, saying "no, not in my world".

Your thoughts made me smile (or rather, I chose to smile at what I perceived in those words). Lots of no's in there, yes?

Yes, no. No no, I mean yes. I think. I said yes, no? I mean, originally I said no, and my answer to your question, "yes", is yes there are no's.

Wink

The ego you describe might just be parts of yourself you don't want to integrate.

Quote:My ego, that part of me which sees separation in everything, likes the idea of 'ascension'. Something to be chosen and worked hard for, something to perhaps be a little evangelical about, giving me cause to feel good about spreading the word, perhaps joining in with others to extend the feeling of 'being right'. But having had to listen to my little ego for a long time, and now knowing oneness, I can smile and let it rest peacefully.

This is the way the Mind works. It simply is. Every last person I have heard on this earth employs this same thing, every time, always. This is all I can see anymore. I just want to find the fitting rail car to hop on. Or, I don't really...
3DMonkey Wrote:The ego you describe might just be parts of yourself you don't want to integrate.

Only the ego can make such a decision and cast it upon another, yes..? Through long experience I have found that certain memes crop up time and time again. A contemporary one is the idea that if we do not like something, or find it uncomfortable, then it must mean that we are not facing something which is wrong or not integrated within our self. To use a contemporary term, this is bullshit. All we need do is feel sincerely as Ra say, and we will know.

As a daft example, if someone set a friend on fire would you say to him/her, "Ah, do you see? There is something about fire that you are unwilling to integrate!"...

Quote:This is the way the Mind works. It simply is. Every last person I have heard on this earth employs this same thing, every time, always.

Yes, I too would suggest that ego works in the same way for all of us. I tend to think of it in much the same way as as a hand, or foot, or nose. We all have the same parts (more or less) and they all perform the same function. So, our egos work in much the same way, seeing everything as separate, seeing cause for put-downs, aloofness, cleverness, despair at being beaten by another ego, and so on. It is why this insane world is as it is. If only everyone could let go of the ego, things could be so much simpler.

Quote:This is all I can see anymore. I just want to find the fitting rail car to hop on. Or, I don't really...

May I suggest stillness? It might sound daft or esoteric, but simply sitting in stillness for some minutes regularly connects us with all that is. Some people talk of meditations, of techniques and practices which will bring peace, enlightenment, and so on. Such practices can be useful, but simple stillness reveals that our thoughts are just the ego harping on and on about everything under the sun. With stillness practice it soon becomes safe and quiet.
Quote: Through long experience I have found that certain memes crop up time and time again. A contemporary one is the idea that if we do not like something, or find it uncomfortable, then it must mean that we are not facing something which is wrong or not integrated within our self.

My coming to this understanding was a result of seeing a single previous life. Seeing my actions made clear to me why i was born to my particular set of circumstances. I was thrust in the middle of dealing with what i dealt out in my previous life. It made me accept what i went through as being a sort of penance.

Other than that i never implied i "wanted" to ascend, i only brought up the mechanics of the concept. In my current state i love this planet and never want to leave it. I am excited at the prospect of the population changing and having a better connection to earth.

3DMonkey

(08-02-2011, 06:31 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]
3DMonkey Wrote:The ego you describe might just be parts of yourself you don't want to integrate.

Only the ego can make such a decision and cast it upon another, yes..? Through long experience I have found that certain memes crop up time and time again. A contemporary one is the idea that if we do not like something, or find it uncomfortable, then it must mean that we are not facing something which is wrong or not integrated within our self. To use a contemporary term, this is bullshit. All we need do is feel sincerely as Ra say, and we will know.

As a daft example, if someone set a friend on fire would you say to him/her, "Ah, do you see? There is something about fire that you are unwilling to integrate!"...

Quote:This is the way the Mind works. It simply is. Every last person I have heard on this earth employs this same thing, every time, always.

Yes, I too would suggest that ego works in the same way for all of us. I tend to think of it in much the same way as as a hand, or foot, or nose. We all have the same parts (more or less) and they all perform the same function. So, our egos work in much the same way, seeing everything as separate, seeing cause for put-downs, aloofness, cleverness, despair at being beaten by another ego, and so on. It is why this insane world is as it is. If only everyone could let go of the ego, things could be so much simpler.

Quote:This is all I can see anymore. I just want to find the fitting rail car to hop on. Or, I don't really...

May I suggest stillness? It might sound daft or esoteric, but simply sitting in stillness for some minutes regularly connects us with all that is. Some people talk of meditations, of techniques and practices which will bring peace, enlightenment, and so on. Such practices can be useful, but simple stillness reveals that our thoughts are just the ego harping on and on about everything under the sun. With stillness practice it soon becomes safe and quiet.

LOVE!!! that honesty.

Only ego would consider ego an enemy Wink


3DMonkey Wrote:LOVE!!! that honesty. Only ego would consider ego an enemy Wink

I am unsure as to your meaning 3DMonkey.

3DMonkey

"Love that honesty"- please accept this as literal. No sarcasm there.

"only ego would consider ego an enemy"- you don't think that's a valid paradox? I mean, why would not-the-ego want to shove ego out the door?
(08-03-2011, 12:36 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]"Love that honesty"- please accept this as literal. No sarcasm there.

"only ego would consider ego an enemy"- you don't think that's a valid paradox? I mean, why would not-the-ego want to shove ego out the door?

Ah, thank you for clarifying. (Words on a screen are often a conundrum, I think).

I think I see what you mean about not-the-ego not wanting, or needing to shove ego out of the door. I tend to see the ego as just that part of us which of necessity sees separation in all things. Without it we would not last long in this world, even just in terms of personal safety.

There are some practices people call 'de-constructing the ego', which seems both daft and potentially dangerous to me. Ego serves a purpose, but as our thoughts are constantly 'filtered' through our ego, any attempts to change its nature are in fact just using ego to try and 'fix' ego. I find that stillness, with no goal of meditation in mind, works best. Ego eventually calms down and feels safe, and anxieties gradually fade away to be replaced by a calm confidence.

On the topic of Ascension, I wonder if our main reason for wanting to 'ascend' is based in deep seated and natural anxiety about our own death? Many books I have read about ascending temporarily or permanently, or trying to change the body's DNA, create a new 'light body' and so on, sound very much as though they are trying to provide a recipe for avoiding death. The 'rapture' some speak of seems the same; be good and you will not have to die.

Like many, I remember dying, and have always had out of body experiences (some of which were confirmed as real by people who later said that they had seen me visiting them). Nothing new there. It does mean that I have no fear of 'being dead' as I know there is no such thing. The only anxiety I do have from time to time is the way I might leave this world behind. Like most people, I would prefer something more palatable than horrific, but if as it is said, we choose our demise as we chose our coming here, then there is nothing to worry about I suppose. I do not feel a need to ascend in any way, as I know my temporary human state with all my dimness and wonderful mistakes is just that; temporary.

I think I may be doing Pickle a disservice by writing in the thread without having watched the video in the original post. I shall watch it now. Smile

Edit...

Now that is an interesting short film. After hearing what they have to say I would probably say that my own word for 'ascension' is just 'change'. And in the context of change, I feel that it will happen. It is funny how we have synchronicities. I watched the film Knowing (with Nicolas Cage) and felt sure that it was prophetic to some degree. The natural increase in solar flares seems to have some scientists rather alarmed, as they have the feeling that something bigger than normal is coming soon. Personally, I have a vision of vast light in the sky, but not ordinary light, if that makes sense. If it is the kind of change that the video describes then it will be quite the event to experience! If so, and anyone else has a premonition of exactly when, please post so that I can make sandwiches and a flask of tea. Wink

3DMonkey

(08-03-2011, 06:09 AM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]On the topic of Ascension, I wonder if our main reason for wanting to 'ascend' is based in deep seated and natural anxiety about our own death? Many books I have read about ascending temporarily or permanently, or trying to change the body's DNA, create a new 'light body' and so on, sound very much as though they are trying to provide a recipe for avoiding death. The 'rapture' some speak of seems the same; be good and you will not have to die.

There is something there, I think. Death ties us all together. What is it? Nobody knows, and that is the source of eschatology. When we ask the question, we are working with the "Darkness of the Matrix of the Spirit". Into this darkness we seek and we come up with "illuminations" that give us "aha!". It doesn't necessarily need to stem from anxiety about death, but rather how deep we choose to seek in the darkness and what we perceive as acceptable "light" that we find there.
"we are the light of the world" ;-)

In other words, we bring the "aha" light into the darkness with us. (shake shake the flashlight. slam it into the palm of my hand. aha! now it's working. oh, look!"
3DMonkey Wrote:Death ties us all together. What is it? Nobody knows, and that is the source of eschatology.

I would suggest that many do know, as I certainly do, but there is no way to prove anything to someone else.

I remember dying in certain ways, remember being here before many times, and have visited new places only to have instant recall of being killed there, even with dates, times and a clear memory of the day and various events. (These memories are mine, and quite distinguishable from thoughts I pick up from others). I have also, along with friends, met people who were 'dead and trapped', and have been able to help them let go of the place they clung to in a 'bad dream'.

Most people can sense such things far more than they want to realise, so they 'shut down' their conscious awareness of it, and so they don't know and are fearful of the thought of death. It perhaps explains why our so-called civilised societies censor everything to do with real death, and try to sanitise the birth and death process. Just more control processes by which the masses are governed, sadly.

3DMonkey

I "know" too. Every person "knows". Death isn't what is, it's what one thinks it will be.
(08-02-2011, 06:31 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]Through long experience I have found that certain memes crop up time and time again. A contemporary one is the idea that if we do not like something, or find it uncomfortable, then it must mean that we are not facing something which is wrong or not integrated within our self. To use a contemporary term, this is bullshit. All we need do is feel sincerely as Ra say, and we will know.

As a daft example, if someone set a friend on fire would you say to him/her, "Ah, do you see? There is something about fire that you are unwilling to integrate!"...

Quoting myself here to add some clarification after discussions with various friends on new age topics. (And I hope nobody reading is distressed by the word bullshit. Though I perhaps could have been more intelligently descriptive, sometimes a down to earth colloquialism works well).

Rather off topic, so I will not ramble on too much. But... I have myself agreed with some new age concepts in the not so distant past just because they 'sounded right' and because they seemed to be generally accepted as true. I am far more careful about doing so nowadays.

I remember someone telling me that because I have allergies and my ear tubes swell and become blocked, that I "must not want to hear something". In other words, I was blocking something which I needed to work on. I jokingly pointed out that her need to wear spectacles all day long perhaps meant that she was refusing to see something and work on it. The point was quite lost, as was the intended joke.

As I have said elsewhere, I think that much of what Ra said is very over-simplified, or sometimes over-explained for our benefit as somewhat anxious and not very clear seeing beings (in our current state). Also, very much is taken out of context by seekers, or applied as a 'general truth' when from a clearer point of view it makes no sense to do so.

I like Ra's comment that intuition and more rigorous scientific examination and thought must go together for things to become clear (I cannot find the quote right now). I think it is good to see many posting in these forums judiciously applying the brakes when blanket statements of 'truth' are made, as well as pointing out the opposite, that scientific analysis and rational thought are not everything by far.

Off topic thoughts done with (I was not sure where else to post this).
(08-05-2011, 02:59 AM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]Quoting myself here to add some clarification after discussions with various friends on new age topics. (And I hope nobody reading is distressed by the word bullshit. Though I perhaps could have been more intelligently descriptive, sometimes a down to earth colloquialism works well).

Rather off topic, so I will not ramble on too much. But... I have myself agreed with some new age concepts in the not so distant past just because they 'sounded right' and because they seemed to be generally accepted as true. I am far more careful about doing so nowadays.

I remember someone telling me that because I have allergies and my ear tubes swell and become blocked, that I "must not want to hear something".
That's just part of maturation process here. One 'phase', if you will, is the establishment in mind of the legitimate 'reality' of these allegorical relationships we have with the inner and outer world. Like anything new, it tends to become inflated and confused - 'everything is allegory'. So basically the initiate starts identifying 'shapes in clouds', ascribing desired meaning to events for the mere sake of promoting a favored intuitive conception. In an infinite universe, just because something can be interpreted allegorically, does not mean that aspect has useful application towards one's purpose.

It a process akin to the psychology student that diagnosis themselves with various pathological conditions they read about in their coursework. Looking back, we just roll our eyes and smile. That is, until one gets dangerously trapped in confusion and their own 'twilight world'. Although there is always balancing aid available, as we see from the constant barrage of disingenuous posts here, it's blatantly ignored by the 'new-age-meme' inspired, zealous fanatic.
(08-06-2011, 10:57 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]So basically the initiate starts identifying 'shapes in clouds', ascribing desired meaning to events for the mere sake of promoting a favored intuitive conception. In an infinite universe, just because something can be interpreted allegorically, does not mean that aspect has useful application towards one's purpose.

It a process akin to the psychology student that diagnosis themselves with various pathological conditions they read about in their coursework. Looking back, we just roll our eyes and smile. That is, until one gets dangerously trapped in confusion and their own 'twilight world'. Although there is always balancing aid available, as we see from the constant barrage of disingenuous posts here, it's blatantly ignored by the 'new-age-meme' inspired, zealous fanatic.

Thank you for those thoughts Zenmaster. For some reason I have always been drawn into other people's world views, which I think is part of being sensitive to their energies/emotions. I have found myself looking back and smiling when I see how much I have 'fallen into'. Learning to not do so has been part of my own change by setting some boundaries in the state of 'individuality' in which we live in this level of being.

I like reading what people say in these forums because there is usually a kind slap in the face when someone becomes over-zealous! While I like to participate, I have refrained a lot by balancing my own desire to be part of a discussion with thoughts such as, "Do I need to say anything, really? Will I be contributing anything which could be of use to someone?"

I find myself here not as starting out in something, but having lived and remembered so much that Ra spoke of through the group, so it feels like, "Aha; these are my people" if that makes sense? Everything we do as individuals in terms of our spiritual practices, rituals, meditations and so on seem to be just our own cake icing. I think that those who seem to think they know it all, as well as those who think they know nothing, all come to understanding of themselves as time goes by. At least it looks that way to me over the years. It is all good in the end, yes?
(08-06-2011, 01:43 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for those thoughts Zenmaster. For some reason I have always been drawn into other people's world views, which I think is part of being sensitive to their energies/emotions. I have found myself looking back and smiling when I see how much I have 'fallen into'. Learning to not do so has been part of my own change by setting some boundaries in the state of 'individuality' in which we live in this level of being.
And when you have done that, what is the difference in attitude? You realize more and more that they are the same as yourself and yet you are more and more different. It's like more unique and distinct but, at the same time, actually closer, right?

(08-06-2011, 01:43 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]I like reading what people say in these forums because there is usually a kind slap in the face when someone becomes over-zealous! While I like to participate, I have refrained a lot by balancing my own desire to be part of a discussion with thoughts such as, "Do I need to say anything, really? Will I be contributing anything which could be of use to someone?"
Because we have a lifetime of learning behind us, I think any attempt to offer that perspective on a matter, in an honest manner, is going to provide an opportunity for reflection to some extent. Actually the very effort to bridge our own intuitive understandings by articulating our bias of what may currently only be mere apprehension is a good way of learning about ourselves - that's 'learn/teach'.

(08-06-2011, 01:43 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]I find myself here not as starting out in something, but having lived and remembered so much that Ra spoke of through the group, so it feels like, "Aha; these are my people" if that makes sense?
Yes, these are the 'good guys'.

(08-06-2011, 01:43 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]Everything we do as individuals in terms of our spiritual practices, rituals, meditations and so on seem to be just our own cake icing. I think that those who seem to think they know it all, as well as those who think they know nothing, all come to understanding of themselves as time goes by. At least it looks that way to me over the years. It is all good in the end, yes?
It's a fool-proof system that has become more and more evident and amenable to 'faith'. Regardless of the current distortions and biases that seem so compelling, eventually self recognizes self, things are balanced, then on to the next learning.
Ra assumes infinity but they do not know.... too

So there lol

I feel like a snake chasing it's own tail.
(exactly what i think is going on lol)


(08-06-2011, 02:19 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]And when you have done that, what is the difference in attitude? You realize more and more that they are the same as yourself and yet you are more and more different. It's like more unique and distinct but, at the same time, actually closer, right?

Definitely. Another so-called 'paradox' of being. So true that it is "more and more" too, and not a quick easy lesson. I find now that I see violence and other not so palatable things in people and realise that it is in me too, so there is nothing I can condemn another for expressing outwardly just because I have no serious wish to do so.

Quote:Because we have a lifetime of learning behind us, I think any attempt to offer that perspective on a matter, in an honest manner, is going to provide an opportunity for reflection to some extent. Actually the very effort to bridge our own intuitive understandings by articulating our bias of what may currently only be mere apprehension is a good way of learning about ourselves - that's 'learn/teach'.

How true, and one thing I am still learning is that it is important not to try to be the student, and not to try to be the teacher. Such things, once we relax into our truer nature, come naturally. Sometimes as a surprise as well, like when you think you were 'taking the back seat' and learning from someone and then realise you just taught them something valuable, and vice-versa. I am enjoying growing older far more than I ever imagined I would (not that I am that old yet in terms of years).

Quote:It's a fool-proof system that has become more and more evident and amenable to 'faith'. Regardless of the current distortions and biases that seem so compelling, eventually self recognizes self, things are balanced, then on to the next learning.

Something I have spent a while learning for myself is that of necessity it has to be a seemingly long, drawn out process. I sometimes wonder if most or all wanderers feel a deep inner compulsion to 'be doing something' about everything, as I too easily do? Someone once said that it is only impatience with the universe and the 'plan' of life, but it does seem to affect those who feel themselves be wanderers a lot. Your use of the word "eventually" rings a bell with me; that living a simple life and eventually realising unexpected moments of self-learning is the natural way. I like it, though I did not always! Smile
(08-06-2011, 03:36 PM)drifting pages Wrote: [ -> ]Ra assumes infinity but they do not know.... too. So there lol

Smile Indeed. I think in our current state the mind is incapable of realising infinity, even though the ego thinks (and often says!) that it can.

For some reason your comment has made me feel 'safe' enough to post something more detailed in the Wanderers Stories thread, which I have been reticent to do so up to now, so thank you for that. (What people make of it is anyone's guess!)
I think that as the mechanics of the learning process are slowly digested, our responsibility becomes more apparent and 'not doing' seems rather 'wasteful'. Still, even when faced with this realization, just how we use our time 'effectively' tends to demand and draw upon our deeper character.


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