it's weird, these guys on twitter, tweet about rioting, this is organized crime via social media and it seems there's a huge number of idiots involved, they're setting fire to buildings with apartments, they're looting charity shops. i could understand if this were about being frustrated and protesting but it's not, people are doing damage to people. not the government or its ways. maybe it started out as something else but now lots of people are just using it as an excuse to rob and torch. it's spreading all over the country. it's really freaky. it's like everyday there's something new, the uprisings in egypt and other places, the phone hacking, norway, and now this. something is definitely happening. wanna get some bunker in the middle of a forest like i originally planned, and get outta dodge before it spreads everywhere.
arent 'people' the ones who are actually feeding what you name ? ie government, establishment etc ?
and i remember britain still has a rather rigid class based society, even if there isnt discrimination through law anymore.
(08-09-2011, 02:12 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]arent 'people' the ones who are actually feeding what you name ? ie government, establishment etc ?
and i remember britain still has a rather rigid class based society, even if there isnt discrimination through law anymore.
I don't believe the riots are aimed at any sort of goal except for chaos. They're organizing attacks on shops and police through mobile social media. As far as I can tell, it's a bunch of rowdy kids who just want to burn stuff and hurt people, not make any sort of change.
(08-09-2011, 02:33 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]I don't believe the riots are aimed at any sort of goal except for chaos. They're organizing attacks on shops and police through mobile social media. As far as I can tell, it's a bunch of rowdy kids who just want to burn stuff and hurt people, not make any sort of change.
you will notice that revolutions do not have any kind of aim or organization at the start. this is so even for french revolution at its start.
even if comparing this to french revolution is overboard and seemingly off base at this point, i am thinking that the social mindset and the situation it creates in britain has huge effect on this. britain has been a rigid caste society for centuries, which still has its ghost on current society. high government officials or corporate officials too often come up with some attachment to an aristocratic family, even if not directly titled with a small or noticeable title.
maybe not surprisingly, a lot of laws aimed at surveillance and control of the society were put out in britain in the last 5-6 years, some of which flabbergasted liberty watchdog groups.
all of these had to have an effect on the spiritual situation in british society.
basically im saying its a you reap what you sow situation. im not seeing any rioting in finland or sweden.
(08-09-2011, 02:12 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]arent 'people' the ones who are actually feeding what you name ? ie government, establishment etc ?
and i remember britain still has a rather rigid class based society, even if there isnt discrimination through law anymore.
even so you don't fix things by setting fire to people's apartments, a 4 year old was living in one and apparently barely got out. killing children to protest isn't right.
are you saying sweden isn't corrupt at all? scandinavia has its problems.
(08-09-2011, 03:21 PM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2011, 02:12 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]arent 'people' the ones who are actually feeding what you name ? ie government, establishment etc ?
and i remember britain still has a rather rigid class based society, even if there isnt discrimination through law anymore.
even so you don't fix things by setting fire to people's apartments, a 4 year old was living in one and apparently barely got out. killing children to protest isn't right.
are you saying sweden isn't corrupt at all? scandinavia has its problems.
they are not 'fixing' anything. they are just reacting.
it is no different than how organs of a body react when one abuses them a lot.
ookay. i dunno what you're saying.
Living in Britain I can vouch for your comments about it just being mindless violence. The social class system here is played down, but exists in the form of the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. Many young people here see little to look forward to in the future, just as young people in other European countries. At some excuse for a trigger a small group instigates the fun of 'revolt', and hey presto. I have seen it happen before and experienced it first-hand.
As someone said, it is not obvious and structured revolt against the ruling elite, but in an unconscious way I think it is revolt all the same. Conversations I have had during past weeks revealed that many younger people I know feel this way. I told some friends that this would all kick off very soon, they replied that it would not because the people of the UK are gutless, but here we go again.
As some have hinted, instant social media turns out to have darker uses, and there is call from politicians to have Blackberry messaging shut down (it seems the most popular way of inviting friends to the sausage roast and "take home all you can carry").
The good side is the Twitter campaign to clean up. In past riots here that has not happened in such a way before.
The interesting thing is all this is happening very close to the Calleman Mayan date of October 28, 2011. May be there is something to it.
(08-09-2011, 04:43 PM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]The interesting thing is all this is happening very close to the Calleman Mayan date of October 28, 2011. May be there is something to it.
That is
close? Well close in terms of years perhaps, but otherwise I would not see it as significant.
But the main thought I just had, initiated by a photograph of a captured and smirking rioter surrounded by police, is that in the UK nothing much happens to people if they break the law. Murderers are given 'life' sentences which amount to 15 years, and they often get out after 8 to 10 if they behave well in prison. From what I read it is very different elsewhere, but here most of a criminal mindset just do not care.
and it's incredibly brand consious looting - we're on a break in the centre of manchester this week, so in the thick of it tonight. the stores that were the targets for looting are the premium brands, we managed to find a pizza takeaway for a meal tonight still open, lots of people walking around with masks over their faces carrying tvs that they'd looted. while we were waiting one guy came into the pizza place and tried to sell a big flat screen to the guys in there - they threw him out
i appreciate that there is violence being directed towards the police, but it doesn't 'feel' violent here tonight, at least not where I am, it feels opportunistic - fire being started in a chain store to distract from the real looting going on at the designer brand and electricals stores
you're right kiko - there is a real issue here with a total lack of consequences for people, the kids feel untouchable
(08-09-2011, 05:48 PM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]i appreciate that there is violence being directed towards the police...
What?!
Appreciation of violence directed at the police!
What did the police do? They too are part of the Matrix like the rest of us. If you were to encounter police brutality in countries such as where I come from, one would even fall at the feet of the police in European countries for sticking to some modicum of human rights.
Kiko meant appreciate like acknoledge.
i mean Lorna.
i mean that i aknowledge that there is violence towards the police - dialect issue perhaps
but on the streets tonight in the centre, just off the main streets where we are, of manchester there was not a general feeling of fear or violence, more that people were on a high and excited about grabbing high value items from stores
i agree. it seems they're just into looting, at least the ones who are.
(08-09-2011, 05:59 PM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]i mean that i aknowledge that there is violence towards the police - dialect issue perhaps
Ha! I now understand what you mean. English is not my native tongue. I thought you meant to say that attacks on established institutions were justified to some extent due to frustration on the part of the population. I believe that to be definitely not true or justifiable. In this world, we get what we work for, provided circumstances also treat us favorably from our childhood (like decent parents, good physical heath, etc).
I only just heard about this riot yesterday, it "feels" potentially important though. I think it is showing us the darkness before the dawn, and its scary and might degenerate a lot further still, but we are lucky that we can see the big picture. Those in the u.k please try and stay safe and stay separate from it. I personally don't understand the whole primitive mentality of "hey we are angry, let's go hurt and kill people!" - I label it now as the "martian way" lol. I'm curious to see how it plays out, and hope it leads to something positive
i urge everyone in the areas affected to gather all the street kitties/mutts and take them in for the time so they stay safe. who knows what those crazies would do to them.
(08-09-2011, 06:38 PM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]i urge everyone in the areas affected to gather all the street kitties/mutts and take them in for the time so they stay safe. who knows what those crazies would do to them.
I think that is a good thought, but most people in riot areas will not be reading Bring4th forums! Most animals know when to get out of the way for a while though, and the riots are fairly localised in small areas.
(08-09-2011, 05:59 PM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]i mean that i aknowledge that there is violence towards the police - dialect issue perhaps
but on the streets tonight in the centre, just off the main streets where we are, of manchester there was not a general feeling of fear or violence, more that people were on a high and excited about grabbing high value items from stores
Nevertheless that sounds kind of spooky to me ! I hope you are okay, Lorna, and things don't get as bad where you are as they seem in London.
On TV I saw a black family (mum, dad and maybe 5year old boy) walk thru all the violence and people throwing stones and burning down houses in the middle of London and the little kid had such a terrified expression on his face. I felt so sorry for him! Just imagine your neighborhood turning into warzone from one day to the next.
i think that a lot of people everywhere are frustrated. and they are frustrated with the inherent inequalities built into
society. in britain they have the royalty, here in the states there is no royalty but the rich could be considered the royalty.
so a lot of stuff has been suppressed for a very long time and all it needs is a trigger to unleash it . its complex and this is
an oversimplification but if u look around the world in general people are speaking out against the inequalities they have
been suffering for years and years. and i think it ties in very much with the mayan calendar. many times i get the feeling this
planet is a prison just by the way power is structured.
norral
(08-09-2011, 05:48 PM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]and it's incredibly brand consious looting - we're on a break in the centre of manchester this week, so in the thick of it tonight. the stores that were the targets for looting are the premium brands
and not surprisingly, 'premium brands' are the ones which sell their wares from much more expensive price tags due to the label they slap on their wares ....
(08-09-2011, 05:56 PM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]What did the police do? They too are part of the Matrix like the rest of us. If you were to encounter police brutality in countries such as where I come from, one would even fall at the feet of the police in European countries for sticking to some modicum of human rights.
yees they are part of the matrix like the rest of us - and they are the ones working for keeping the matrix. 'i had orders' is not an excuse. from however you approach, you have your burden if you are assisting something that is negative and repressive in any way.
(08-09-2011, 06:42 PM)Kiko Wrote: [ -> ]I think that is a good thought, but most people in riot areas will not be reading Bring4th forums!
really. thats a good point. even if you meant it in another way, it conveys an important issue :
how many of you who are reading this or other forums on the internet, and dabbling in spirituality, are actually down in the dumps ? how many of you are posting from a mold infested room that you may or may not be able to pay its rent next month ?
there is a huge segment of society which doesnt have these.
(08-10-2011, 03:56 AM)norral Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of stuff has been suppressed for a very long time and all it needs is a trigger to unleash it . its complex and this is an oversimplification but if u look around the world in general people are speaking out against the inequalities they have been suffering for years and years. and i think it ties in very much with the mayan calendar. many times i get the feeling this planet is a prison just by the way power is structured.
I feel much the same way too. It is very complex, but like most things, paradoxically quite simple at the same time. The repression and control of people takes many forms, such as political, financial, religious, and so on. They amount to much the same thing, with one being the easily identifiable factor in most cases. For example, in Europe the many months of riots appear to be a symptom of financial ruin and the slow death of capitalism. In the Middle East the riots appear to be symptomatic of control and persecution by religious means.
An aspect I find interesting is the way each large energy group, ie., country population, blames 'outside' influences. Not that global media are accurate or truthful, but for example, it was reported here recently that President Obama blames the economic failures of Europe rippling to the USA and causing their crash. The UK blames the European Union. Various Middle East countries now in terrible strife blame both America and all of Europe, or Israel, and so on.
All of this does seem symptomatic of the predicted 'end times', and I would agree with anyone who feels that we are living in the end times right now. But it does not mean 'the end of time', or the ruin of the world to me. I see it as the ruin and end of old ways of working and controlling nations, and it is all just part of gradual change which seems all the more dangerous because events are happening more rapidly now.
As someone said elsewhere, we are best served by letting go of the fear that masses of people are generating and spreading, and many are doing so quite naturally. The media likes to report that people in the streets are terrified, but in fact some people walk casually through an area where gangs of youth are looting and burning, shrug and walk on without harm. The violence does seem to be directed at 'the man' in charge, but most do not know who exactly to target in their frustration with life, so it becomes a mindless mob expression of pent up frustration which turns into, "Hey, I will get me some new togs for free!"
There is a well written article published today about the riots (admittedly in a trashy online newspaper) at
http://goo.gl/WVe7F. You may want to use a browser with an advert blocker to stop the rubbish on the page from distracting.
(08-10-2011, 05:20 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]really. thats a good point. even if you meant it in another way, it conveys an important issue :
how many of you who are reading this or other forums on the internet, and dabbling in spirituality, are actually down in the dumps ? how many of you are posting from a mold infested room that you may or may not be able to pay its rent next month ?
there is a huge segment of society which doesnt have these.
i've lived in a mold infested room. what's your point, U?
anyway you never know where people live, we have lots of lurkers i'm sure, who might live there if noone active does. whether spiritual people live down in the dumps is a different matter. people in london don't live in dumps just cuz they're in the riot areas. the riots are happening everywhere, affluent areas as well as poor. in Ealing a priest was talking on TV about how people from another parrish attacked her area and then lots of people came and cleaned up. i think this is affecting the whole country and people are maybe even feeling unified because of it. i hope so. so i hope if anyone is reading this they will keep an eye on any strays who might be in danger. that's all.
(08-10-2011, 05:20 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]how many of you who are reading this or other forums on the internet, and dabbling in spirituality, are actually down in the dumps ? how many of you are posting from a mold infested room that you may or may not be able to pay its rent next month ?
there is a huge segment of society which doesnt have these.
i'd be surprised if many, if any, of the people taking part in the riots last night lived in bad housing or were struggling to pay the rent - the welfare state in the uk takes care of all that. the only people in this country who struggle to pay rent are the working poor, those people who choose to take responsibility for their lives but who then struggle to make ends meet. and that is probably part of the problem - these kids are untouchable because they know nothing 'bad' will happen to them
(08-10-2011, 05:56 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]i've lived in a mold infested room. what's your point, U?
my point is clear enough.
Quote:anyway you never know where people live, we have lots of lurkers i'm sure, who might live there if noone active does. whether spiritual people live down in the dumps is a different matter. people in london don't live in dumps just cuz they're in the riot areas. the riots are happening everywhere, affluent areas as well as poor. in Ealing a priest was talking on TV about how people from another parrish attacked her area and then lots of people came and cleaned up. i think this is affecting the whole country and people are maybe even feeling unified because of it. i hope so. so i hope if anyone is reading this they will keep an eye on any strays who might be in danger. that's all.
you thought the riots would be confined to the areas people were down in the dumps ? what point would be poor people robbing each other while brand name stores stood in high class lanes.
(08-10-2011, 06:22 AM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]i'd be surprised if many, if any, of the people taking part in the riots last night lived in bad housing or were struggling to pay the rent - the welfare state in the uk takes care of all that. the only people in this country who struggle to pay rent are the working poor, those people who choose to take responsibility for their lives but who then struggle to make ends meet. and that is probably part of the problem - these kids are untouchable because they know nothing 'bad' will happen to them
there. you are saying it yourself - if those youth start to actually work through, they will be struggling. they are young, and that is the future in front of them.
and now the governments are tightening social security for austerity for paying for the money rich frauded in the banks out of governments and corporations.
what would be the result ? flowers ?
no it's not clear.
i didn't say they would be confined, you appeared to.
(08-10-2011, 07:37 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]no it's not clear.
since you are able to regularly post to discuss on this discussion as of this moment, you are sufficiently well off in regard to whether you will be able to find food tomorrow, even if you are living in a mold-infested room.
otherwise, you would be trying to find ways to save your hiney instead of participating in an internet discussion in this frequency.
is it anger, frustration, trying to make a point or a reaction against disadvantaged circumstances?
or is it organised theft?
yes there is poverty, but to be frank we don't have poverty in the uk on the scale that other societies do. and i would counter that what went on last night wasn't anger about poverty or frustration at a lack of hope, it was organised crime, a strategy planned and managed by known gangsters and implemented by kids who don't care because there are no consequenses