06-04-2009, 12:15 PM
This chat has been re-organized for ease or reading.
14:00:05 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hi Everyone! Steve is having technical difficulties - cannot get online - so I will moderate the chat today. With Steve not here, we won't have the luxury of the 'Ask Carla' tab...just the Roundtable. So, I would like to ask for everyone's cooperation so we can keep the chat running smoothly, without too much confusion.
14:00:33 ‹Bring4th_Monica› To make it easier for Carla to keep track of the questions without getting overloaded, please do NOT post your question directly. Instead, type your question into a document, then type 'question' into the chat.
14:00:54 ‹Bring4th_Monica› As soon as Carla is done with her current question, I will say "You (name) are up next...please post your question now" then you can copy and paste your question into the chat without having to spend time typing it. This should help keep the chat somewhat orderly and avoid chaos! Feel free to post a follow-up question if needed, when Carla asks for it.
14:01:06 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hopefully we will back to full function next time...in the meantime, thanks to everyone for your understanding and cooperation!
14:01:29 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Sort of like raising your hand in class & I'll call on you.
14:00:12 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey Peels! Hey Oguz and Monica! Looks like we're in the roundtable again today!
14:00:27 ‹peelstreetguy› Carla, I hope you are starting to feel better
14:00:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So, Monica, how's the girl? How would you like to do this today?
14:01:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, Peels, I am still way under the weather, but in fine spirits and loving the world! Monica, do we have a first question?
14:02:25 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Does anyone have a question? If so just say yes or 'question'
14:03:03 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I guess that's you peels & oguz...cozy small group today.
14:03:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› While we're waiting for a question to occur, I'll natter on about things here -
14:03:14 ‹oguz›
14:03:37 ‹Bring4th_Monica› ok
14:03:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It has been rainy all week, and I am SO impressed with my beautiful husband that he got all his mowing jobs done! More
14:04:16 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And him without a helper now! But he says he likes it better working alone, anyhow. So he's a happy man. More
14:04:51 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Just as I said that, the sun came out for the first time this week! It darted behind a cloud within seconds, but what a rush of joy to see the sun shine!
14:05:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› We have flood advisories all over, now, and just got back on to safe water from a Boil Water Advisory, that's how flooded we are right now! More
14:05:43 ‹peelstreetguy› pouring rain here, but my herbs are sprouting
14:05:57 ‹Bring4th_Monica› It's raining here too, after a year of drought.
14:06:22 ‹oguz› its sunshiny in my city
14:06:50 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I can hear him outside now, cutting the lawn - er, meadow - here at Camelot. What a joy to feel the energy right now, with this lush, green blooming time! What herbs are you growing, Peels?
14:07:36 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Carla, I'll start: Did Steve ask you about the checkerboard on the chat 2 weeks ago? I missed that chat. If he did ask the question for me, sorry for the duplication. I'm wondering what the checkerboard pattern is significant of...when I rub my eyes I see checkerboards and other geometric shapes. It intensified when I got initiated into Kriya Yoga, but I haven't kept up the practice unfortunately.
14:08:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Monica, typing on that -
14:08:17 ‹Bring4th_Monica› And of course the checkerboard is always seen on Tarot cards and other esoteric stuff...
14:08:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I do not think Steve got that question asked, although I remember we talked a little about it, as I recall pointing out the checkering on the cover of 101: The Choice. More
14:09:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I do not know what the checkerboard images might represent. However, just musing on it, I know that sacred geometrical forms make up our illusion. More
14:11:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› A lot of times, I will start seeing a kind of mesh, which is close to checkerboard-shapes. Only the sections of mesh are oval rather than with corners. I asked Q'uo about that, one time, and they said that I was seeing into the way the illusion was coming into my vision - you know, we don't see the way we think we do. More
14:11:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› We see as a computer does, in little pixels. So maybe your checkerboarding is the pixels. More
14:12:26 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Reminds me of when Neo saw the code in The Matrix
14:12:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In fact, our bio-computers focus first on any face in our field of view, getting the detail going there before working on the rest of the view. We think we're seeing a whole picture - but we are not! Isn't that fascinating?
14:13:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Exactly, Monica. That was such a true movie! L/L xxx
14:14:27 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I think there has to be something significant to it, because the old Tarot decks always have checkerboard floors...like on The Priestess card...pathworking temples usually have checkerboard floors...and all those psychedelic posters from the 60s have those checkerboards distorted....those posters that is exactly what it looks like when I rub my eyes....and NO I'm not doing drugs! :p
14:15:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There is no drug as powerful as a really good meditation, as far as I know! Plus, good after-effects. That's my drug of choice, the Silence!
14:15:56 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Yeah definitely!
14:17:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey guys, who has a hot topic?
14:17:09 ‹oguz› a question: what are 5 spiritual books Carla would recommend?
14:17:30 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, oguz, typing on that.
14:17:46 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Law of One, Books 1-5 (sorry for answering you, Carla, but I just couldn't resist, hahaha!)
14:18:02 ‹endsubasi› I greet you with light of the confederation
14:18:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I like the Law of One series, of course - that counts as one, though, not five! More
14:18:24 ‹Bring4th_Monica› yeah I was just kidding ;->
14:18:27 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I greet you also in L/L, dear Endsubasi - back to the favorite spiritual books.
14:18:56 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I love the Kybalion. there's a wonderful little book called The Impersonal Life. So that's three. More
14:19:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Anything by Joel Goldsmith, that's four. And I'd round it out with Autobiography of a Yogi, by Paramahansa Yogananda. What about you, oguz? What are your five favorites?
14:20:14 ‹oguz› hmm
14:20:19 ‹oguz› my 5 are
14:20:27 ‹oguz› Conversations with God
14:20:39 ‹oguz› Pleiadian teachings
14:20:46 ‹oguz› Law of One
14:20:56 ‹oguz› Cassiopaean teachings
14:21:01 ‹oguz› and P'taah
14:21:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK! How about you, Monica? What are your five favorites?
14:21:52 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Oh wow, do I have to limit it to 5? ok here goes
14:22:04 ‹endsubasi› Thanks Carla my favorite books are the Law of One
14:22:25 ‹endsubasi› and others-the Law of One series
14:22:44 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Law of One, Autobiography of a Yogi, Many Mansions, The Mists of Avalon, Inner Guide Meditation
14:23:06 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Mists of Avalon is fiction but it's spiritually profound
14:23:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Oh man, I loved the Mists of Avalon! Such a good book! Peels, how about you? I think everyone else has chimed in!
14:23:39 ‹peelstreetguy› ok
14:23:47 ‹endsubasi› when you have read the Law of One series you don't need to search another book
14:25:08 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Thanks, ends! I read something from TLOO every day at Morning Offering. And it never gets old. it seems to grow with me as I mature spiritually. It meets me wherever I am!
14:24:23 ‹endsubasi› Ra tells us everything what cosmic reality in the Law of One series
14:24:01 ‹peelstreetguy› First, The Law of One
14:24:53 ‹peelstreetguy› Second, The middle pillar by Isreal Regardie and edited and annotated by chic and tabitha Cicero
14:25:24 ‹peelstreetguy› Third, The Mysical Qabalah by Dion Fortune
14:25:48 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Wow, Peels - that is one dense book! Good but it was like reading german philosophy to read that book! I am impressed!
14:26:00 ‹peelstreetguy› Fourth, Initiation into Hermetica by Franz Bardon
14:26:48 ‹peelstreetguy› Fifth will be Your book the Law of One 101when i'm finished reading it
14:26:22 ‹endsubasi› I thank very much Carla Lisbeth, Don Elkins and Jim McCarty
14:27:16 ‹Bring4th_Monica› OMG Dion Fortune! I agree, and I am impressed also! Thanks for the reminder - I knew I was forgetting something important: The Esoteric Philosophy of Love and Marriage by Dione Fortune!!!
14:27:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, thanks for that, Peels! So you're more focused into opening your magical personality. Me too. I love the works of WIlliam E. Butler.
14:27:35 ‹peelstreetguy› The new version of the middle pillar of which I speak is better than the original in my opinion
14:27:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Is there a new one? I will have to check that out!
14:28:25 ‹peelstreetguy› it has all the original text but the annotations and extra stuff written by the Ciceros
14:28:38 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is such a resource to have such great books to read - sometimes for information, and more often for inspiration.
14:28:49 ‹peelstreetguy› is quite enlightening
14:29:10 ‹peelstreetguy› They knew Israel Regardie
14:29:17 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Carla have you read The Esoteric Philosophy of Love and Marriage by Dione Fortune?
14:29:21 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› was that a pun, Peels? LOL! en LIGHT ening!
14:30:17 ‹peelstreetguy› lol, it just came out that way
14:29:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› No, Monica, I haven't read Fortune's book on love and marriage. I love her Psychic Self-Defense. Is that one good too?
14:30:23 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Oh yes yes Yes!!! Very, very, VERY deep stuff on the chakras and energy exchange.
14:30:56 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Gotta get that book! It will be interesting to see how it is handled there, as opposed to my 101 book.
14:31:22 ‹Bring4th_Monica› How what is handled?
14:32:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The chakras and energy exchanges. I spend a good half of 101 discussing the chakras. A god understanding of them helps a lot in playing the game of Life!
14:31:00 ‹peelstreetguy› I've got to get another copy of Psychic Self Defense
14:31:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Ends, are you having trouble staying hooked in to the chat room? I saw your name blink out and then back on.
14:32:16 ‹endsubasi› yes i must refresh the browser
14:32:24 ‹peelstreetguy› I have a question. Shall I post it?
14:32:33 ‹Bring4th_Monica› yes please do
14:32:47 ‹peelstreetguy› Question: I've been thinking since the last chat I attended, and have come to the conclusion that I have much love and compassion as well as a decent amount of wisdom. My biggest problem seems to be that I have no will power! I feel strongly that if I had great will power, that I would be able to advance much more rapidly. right now, I can't seem to quit addictions, of which I have a few and can't seem to do the things I know I should do, like working out and meditating and so forth. I've come to the conclusion that this is what I need to take care of in this incarnation. But the war in my brain continues....I've seen much light and feel a duty to reflect it. Love/wisdom /will power. Love is the law, Love under a strong will. I really need to find or build my will power, before I'm mentally torn apart. It is affecting not only me, but others around me. It makes me feel bad. Carla, could you comment on this?
14:33:42 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Surely, Peels - typing on that.
14:34:19 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Firstly, there is no human on Earth who is without some of those feelings of "I could do better" including me. More
14:34:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But I understand what you mean when you say that love and wisdom are fine, but without the right use of will nd your personal power, you're spinning your wheels. More
14:35:17 ‹peelstreetguy› exactly
14:35:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Now let's look at the addictions. (By the way, that word breaks down into addition plus 'c' - c for crave! More
14:36:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So there are some things which you feel on some level add to your life. I would hazard a general guess that one of them is drugs - whether that means caffeine, sugar, pot, coke or other stuff. More
14:37:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› What you need to figure out for yourself is what is making you feel the need for that addition to your life. More
14:37:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Sometimes the need is for a short-cut to peace. That would probably be red-ray, where you are just trying to survive in a hectic world. More
14:38:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Another red-ray addiction is food, where you eat to fill the isolation and gain comfort. More
14:39:29 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Whatever addictions you are experiencing, when you solve the riddle of "why", then you can far more easily tackle down-sizing your addiction into a preference. More
14:39:58 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› If you have multiple addictions, then you need to select the one you would most like not to have, and work only on that one. More
14:40:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› A lot of fear will come up, as well as anger and bargaining and the other aspects of the grief process. More
14:41:10 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So give yourself at least a month to work on that single issue. Do not judge yourself at any point. Just flex your will each time you find yourself craving that addiction. More
14:41:51 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I have found that once the habitual aspect of using falls away, it becomes way easier to drop the addictive habit. More
14:42:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So what you are really working on is "just say no". That is a hard little sentence to make come true, but that's the deal. Now, when you have achieved recovery from one addiction, you will feel your will becoming stronger. More
14:43:45 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Keep watching yourself, and carefully select the next worst habit that you want to break. be very deliberate here, and again, give yourself time to fall down and get back up as many times as it takes. More
14:44:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The pay-off for not having addictions is that in fact, they slow you down spiritually, so as you eliminate addictions, your spiritual walk becomes more lucid and creative. So there's a definite carrot factor! More
14:46:03 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› As to working out, I think the secret is to find some activity you actually enjoy. For example, I used to adore walking in the park, and would dance through the exercise in a state of bliss. I can't walk any more, but for years, I was faithful because I so loved being out there. More
14:46:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Ditto with gardening, which I used to do with great passion. More
14:47:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Gary loves hiking, and so he's in good shape. One idea is to hook up with a habitat for Humanity group in your city. Working with that crew a couple times a week is probably a good way to get exercise, but you are also helping others. More
14:48:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The trick is to find something that not only fulfills your need for keeping your body toned but also satisfies your soul. Then you don't have to flog yourself into exercising - you look forward to it. Do you have a follow-up, Peels?
14:49:11 ‹peelstreetguy› yes.. This may take a minute to type
14:50:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Aki! Blessings! We're talking about addictions.
14:50:47 ‹Hkelukka› blessings to you too, I got a flat for myself ^_^ Happy seeker moved into a new place!
14:51:59 ‹Hkelukka› How much longer will you be online Carla?
14:53:30 ‹Bring4th_Monica› We might end early today, if there aren't many questions... So far there have been very few... So after the addiction topic has ended, if anyone else has questions, please ask them! But for now, we are still on the addictions topic.
14:53:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Mazeltov, Aki! I hope you remembered to pack your angels! As to how long we're on line today, that will depend on if the conversation continues. If people run out of questions, we could all agree to leave early. But if things keep popping as far as topics of interest, I will be here till 5, my time, as usual,.
14:54:08 ‹Hkelukka› which would be for about 1 more hour ?
14:54:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Right, Aki!
14:54:19 ‹peelstreetguy› I have gained the ability to talk with my guides or higher self or whatever answers my question in my head and have come to the conclusion that I know exactly what I have to do. I have a workout bench and have to use it as well as jog. I really need to meditate and start using the practices of the middle pillar book. I think I've screwed myself by relying on a crutch to feel the creator without as well as within. When I drink a six pack and smoke a joint, I can feel the creation like crazy. I can feel the incredible power of my soul so much, it feels like I could burst. I can open my heart chakra real easily.
14:54:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› yes. Go on, Peels.
14:55:08 ‹peelstreetguy› ok...
14:57:19 ‹peelstreetguy› I ran into a girl on the subway last week, and she had a Long bow and I talked to her about it and I think I will go and join their club next week. It is in the evening of Tuesday. I only drink beer at night during the week, so I will try to stay straight and go do that instead. I've always wanted to try archery.
14:57:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In general, I feel that a certain amount of recreational beer drinking and toking is a simple pleasure, not one that destroys your brain cells or creates health problems down the line. As long as the usage is moderate and not daily, you are probably not in a bad situation. More
14:58:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And substituting an activity for the solitary, sedentary habit of zoning out is a good plan.
14:59:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But what you are expressing here is not just that you want to change your life-style but also that you have felt powerless to do so.
14:59:32 ‹peelstreetguy› I drink every night. It is my worst addiction that needs to be delt with.
15:00:06 ‹Bring4th_Monica› So the real issue is the sense of powerlessness, not the substance itself?
15:00:21 ‹peelstreetguy› I'm a record with a big scratch, I keep skipping and it's driving me nuts!
15:00:21 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So I would address that aspect separately. Personal power comes to one who sets himself to a task and perseveres.
15:01:21 ‹peelstreetguy› Personal power, will power, what is the difference?
15:01:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, let's back up and tackle the drinking. My Mom was a recovering alcoholic for the last 13 years of her life. I was extremely proud of her. But it took her about a decade of slipping over and over again before she got disgusted enough with herself to make the change. More
15:02:21 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› She went to AA and swore by that as the factor that helped her stop drinking. She never lost the desire to drink, but she took it one day at a time and stayed sober. More
15:02:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It helped, also, that I did a "tough love" thing and refused to see her till she was sober, as she ahd instructed me to do. It was hard but it worked. More
15:03:56 ‹endsubasi› Drinking alcohol is a good friend in this capitalist world
15:04:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So if the archery palls, get to an AA meeting and say, "I'm me, and I am an alcoholic." You will have an instant support group and they have meetings every night of the week. They wrok! And tell your SO's about Alanon. That works too. [heart icon]
15:00:56 ‹Hkelukka› can i give a recommendation?
15:04:23 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› AKi, did you have a recommendation?
15:04:50 ‹Hkelukka› I did but i was asking if its okay by peel if i say so
15:04:51 ‹peelstreetguy› I can't bring myself to go to AA. I feel I must do this on my own
15:05:04 ‹peelstreetguy› sure HK
15:05:57 ‹peelstreetguy› What is you recommendation?
15:06:50 ‹Hkelukka› don't try to stop drinking, that would not work, instead, try to say that "just for today i will not drink" or make a decision that for "this specific period of time i will not drink" and then, if you can, expand the time and make it more often but start small like "just for the next 2 hours" and so on and then you will gain confidence to tackle the larger issue
15:08:25 ‹Hkelukka› since you will eventually drink again, if not in this life then most likely in another life if only to experience it again so to say "i will quite drinkin" you say you will never do it again, which denies yourself the right to do it which is, in general, a bad way to go, simply say that "I have decided that for today, i will not drink"
15:07:14 ‹peelstreetguy› interesting...
15:07:28 ‹peelstreetguy› I just did that with pot last week
15:07:45 ‹peelstreetguy› I don't smoke during the day anymore
15:08:03 ‹peelstreetguy› it was hard but I'm getting used to it
15:06:10 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Peels, that is what my Mom said the whole time she was slipping and drinking. She thought those people were just too, too tacky. And maybe they are. But their hearts are as big as the world and they care. I mean, it is totally your call, but please reconsider AA if doing it on your own proves too hard.
15:08:32 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hey peels, that alone is a huge accomplishment!!! I know so many people who get high all day long, every day. Just cutting back to evenings, and then maybe to weekends, is a huge accomplishment! You should give yourself a BIG HUG!
15:08:35 ‹Hkelukka› and then say to yourself "tomorrow, if I want, i can, but today, i will not
15:08:44 ‹Hkelukka› thats my recommendation on that
15:09:15 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I think both ideas have value and could work
15:09:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I think it is a sound one, Aki, and it comes right out of AA! This stuff does work!
15:09:28 ‹peelstreetguy› Thank you Monica, and Hk it is good advice.
15:09:55 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And I agree with Monica - You are definitely gaining on it, Peels.
15:10:27 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I remember when I quit pot, it was very difficult because of the spiritual factor. I agree that it helped to open the heart chakra. What helped me was replacing it with meditation. I still wonder if it might not be useful in moderation, though.
15:10:50 ‹peelstreetguy› My brother was a wicked drunk and AA has helped him, but I don't think it is my path, it is my responsibility to fix myself and I will become stronger in the long run that way
15:11:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But now for thinking about the right use of will, the right use of personal power. Peels, the fact that your favorite spiritual books are in the area of Western White Magic indicates that you are comfortable orienting yourself to the spiritual path as a magician. More
15:12:42 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There is a tremendous power in us all, the power of the will. Ra mentioned once that the three dynamics of spiritual seeking were wisdom, love and power. They said that Don represented wisdom, I represented love and Jim's forte was power. it really balanced our group that this was so. More
15:13:11 ‹peelstreetguy› I have surrounded myself with everything I need to overcome all this, I've taken great pains to do so, then I look at it all and open a beer, LOL! next thing I know, I've used none of it...
15:13:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Anyway, power is developed by use. Just as a muscle is developed by exercise, so is personal power developed by its use. More
15:15:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So Peels, in terms of using it, focus in on that moment before you pop the top on a beer and use your personal will power to put the beer back in the fridge. Then move away and into another activity.- something absorbing. Set your intention to do that, right at that moment. Does that sound do-able?
15:15:32 ‹peelstreetguy› I think so
15:15:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, god luck with it.
15:16:14 ‹peelstreetguy› Thank you all so much for the great insight!!!! Maybe you are my AA, LOL!
15:15:56 ‹endsubasi› (:>
15:16:35 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Good luck peels! We're all behind you! I felt a wave of love & support sent in your direction!
15:16:44 ‹peelstreetguy› Carla, you are very right about the magical path
15:17:03 ‹peelstreetguy› thank you all soooo much! (l)
15:15:41 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Carla, I have a related follow-up question: Do you think occasional use of natural highs like pot for spiritual purposes atrophy the 6th chakra, and inhibit the natural opening of the chakra in the long run? Or do you think occasional (like weekend) use might actually enhance it? And, if so, wouldn't the addiction need to be eradicated FIRST before moderation can be enjoyed? I noticed that in my life...had to give it all up totally, then was able to go back later and enjoy the occasional glass of wine ;-> I wonder if some might be able to go from addiction to moderation, or do they need to quit?
15:16:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, typing on that -
15:17:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It depends totally on the person using the pot. To some hard-headed souls, occasional use is fine. It stays in the system for 29 days; It has X and Y chemical changes in the brain associated with it, and that's it. No hangover, no guilt, no down side. More
15:18:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› To others, one toke and the person is high, gone, wasted. And as soon as it wears off, there is a craving for more. So there's no one answer. More
15:19:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In no case do I think that the use of pot atrophies the indigo-ray chakra. I see it as a distraction in that it is a false high. It will wear off. More
15:19:53 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› That does not mean it is not recreationally pleasant, because for most people, it is. But it is not a path to enlightenment. it is a path to sit in the bleachers and get what enlightenment would be like if you weren't on pot! More
15:20:26 ‹peelstreetguy› LOL! true, very true!
15:21:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I guess in general my feeling is very open about pot and booze and other low-end mood-changers as long as the person using them is doing so with full awareness that they have little to do with true spirituality. More
15:23:26 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Ah, very insightful! That's pretty much what I was thinking...if the person feels like they just HAVE to have it, then that's a sign of addiction. Whereas, if it's just a casual take-it-or-leave-it, then it's probably benign. Why do you think it's a false high? Same with mushrooms & peyote used in Native ceremonies. But that is done w lots of respect & preparation, not to just get wasted. So maybe attitude has something to do with it.
15:23:46 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› To work directly on quickening the pace of your spiritual maturation and evolution, keeping it simple works best. Work with the body - the breath, the exercise. Work with the mind - visualization practice, entering the silence, having a Rule of Life that you follow, by gum, especially when it is inconvenient - those are the simple, common-sense ways to power up one's will. And these things only falter when mood-changers like pot and booze are involved. So again the good old AA motto, KISS - "Keep it simple, stupid." And again, dear peels, we're with you.
15:23:50 ‹Hkelukka› can i offer a view here?
15:24:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, as far as I am concerned, Aki -
15:24:46 ‹peelstreetguy› go for it HK
15:25:00 ‹Bring4th_Monica› We're a little more causal today, Aki, since we don't have the full functions of the chat room and there are so few people.
15:25:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› While Aki is typing, I'll answer Monica on false high -
15:25:28 ‹Bring4th_Monica› oops I meant casual not causal, though I guess we are causal too!
15:25:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I called it false because it fades. Whereas if you get high on life, it is permanent. [heart icon]
15:25:50 ‹Hkelukka› I would ask simply, are you using the substance to run away from something or towards something. IF you are using it to run towards something it is generally a good thing, if you are using it to run away from something it is generally a bad thing (For your development)
15:26:30 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› LOL, Monica!
15:26:37 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Ah, ok. Good then you didn't mean that any experiences you might have while high aren't still valuable or insightful...which is what some people say.
15:26:41 ‹Hkelukka› if you are running away from facing an issue by using drugs you are "addicted" to the escape, if you are using drugs to face an issue you are using it along the paths most beneficial. So, ask yourself, "am i using this out of fear (Running away from something) or love (running towards something) thats my view on it
15:27:24 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Oh wow I love it, Aki!
15:27:35 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Although, AKi, peels is experiencing the detrimental effects of daily use, and at that point the booze is in charge. More
15:27:58 ‹peelstreetguy› Monica, you would probably like to read the answer that Q'uo gives to a question I asked concerning mushrooms and other halucinogens. It is on the L/L Research site under March 28. Extremely insightful and has helped me a great deal with understanding that stuff (entheogens).
15:28:12 ‹Bring4th_Monica› thanks peels!
15:28:55 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is like he is no longer running from or to anything. he is an instrument through which the beer gets to drink itself. - if you see what i mean. So I think the analogy breaks down there, where one is truly addicted, as peels says he is. Otherwise, I think your opinion is sound.
15:29:23 ‹peelstreetguy› you are right Carla
15:30:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Peels, I am an old hand at this cuzza my Mom. But she did move away from addiction and into preference, and each day she preferred not to drink. So that's the general plan. and again, good luck!!! I will pray for you.
15:30:31 ‹peelstreetguy› Thanks again Carla for the answers Q'uo gives to the two questions I submitted (one on addiction and one on hallucinogens)
15:30:44 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Profound distinction, Carla! Unless there is more follow up on the addiction issue, Aki you had a question?
15:30:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Oh, yes! You are most welcome. I liked those responses too. They were so common-sense.
15:31:09 ‹peelstreetguy› I'm done. Thank you all
15:31:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› [heart icon]
15:31:31 ‹peelstreetguy› [heart icon]
15:32:08 ‹Hkelukka› knowledge of the function of addiction and why you are addicted (What you fear to face) is one of the keys, as far as i have seen, to beat addiction. Thus in your case the fear is running your life through addiction and you are no longer, in any way in control, though Carla is correct in that it has spiraled out of your control
15:32:11 ‹Hkelukka› my chat lags by about 35 seconds due to my bad modem
15:32:51 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Did you have a new question Aki?
15:33:14 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, while we are waiting on Aki's question, I will note that my husband, the incredible Mick, has now finished cutting and trimming and is now detailing the lawn out by blowing all the debris from walks and stuff. Oh, the joy of having a new-cut lawn! Smiles all around! :>
15:33:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I can hear the blower going, so I can visualize everything from that!
15:34:17 ‹peelstreetguy› I felt great resonance when Ra suggested that Jim exercise as part of anger management in book 5
15:34:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, Peels, it was wonderful advice. More
15:35:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› He still has an Irish temper, and when "one more thing" happens on top of the load he carries, he can spike. More
15:35:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But these days he is far better at containing the fire-hose effect and seldom breaks his bones or his things when the spike hits. More
15:36:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I don't think we lose these tendencies. We find that our old methods of responding to them are not serving us, so we explore new ways. Mick has come a really long way.
15:35:33 ‹Hkelukka› I have several questions in mind but I have trouble putting them into words since they are fairly abstract at the moment. I'm trying to think of a good particular one, i do have quite a few.
15:36:23 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Aki, just feel free to post your question if you have one, ok? In the meantime, I have another question, Carla: When an STS entity tries to depolarize someone, do you think there can be actual possession?
15:36:50 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, typing on that -
15:37:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I have seen such possession up close, so the answer is strongly positive. Yes, there can be an actual possession. More
15:38:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Here is how it works. First, there is the person who feels inadequate. This person likes the idea of having a connection with an entity that is more powerful. So the person sets out to learn to channel, or something akin to that. More
15:39:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The person does not work within the rules of his teacher - do this only with the group, do not practice this alone or at home. More
15:39:38 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I saw it leave one person (who had a profound, lasting spiritual breakthru) and go into another...who now exhibits the same patterns of hostility... When looking at this person, it's as if the person we knew is buried very deep, and only surfaces occasionally...I know the person is very hurt & weak... Any suggestions on how to help the person get strong and get the entity to leave?
15:40:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› He feels that he will be OK. So he begins to get a contact. This contact will tell him how very special he is. Twice in my career as a teacher of channeling I had the person tell me she was going to be the mother of the second coming of Christ - her contat told her so. More
15:40:27 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Both of these people ended up in the psych ward here in a Louisville hospital. More
15:41:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There was also a guy who ended up falling to the floor of my office and foaming at the mouth during a counseling session. he was very proud of having been able to channel a source and had been practicing by himself at his motel. His source promised to solve every problem L/L had. This was shortly before the poor man went into a fugue. More
15:42:25 ‹oguz› oh mi
15:42:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I called together the 8 people who had been studying with him, and we all laid hands on him and called him back. He came back pretty quick, thank God. And was he embarrassed. He never did continue with his work. More
15:43:38 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So I am very strong on telling folks only to consult their guidance from within their own energy field. DO NOT CHANNEL BY YOURSELF! It is a crowded universe out there! Monica, did I answer your query or is there more?
15:44:09 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Wow, intense! This case is more subtle, and did not involve channeling. But there was a definite point at which I detected an STS passenger riding in this person. Carla I think maybe you missed my last post, a few
** We apologize, the remaining ten minutes of this transcript is not available **
14:00:05 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hi Everyone! Steve is having technical difficulties - cannot get online - so I will moderate the chat today. With Steve not here, we won't have the luxury of the 'Ask Carla' tab...just the Roundtable. So, I would like to ask for everyone's cooperation so we can keep the chat running smoothly, without too much confusion.
14:00:33 ‹Bring4th_Monica› To make it easier for Carla to keep track of the questions without getting overloaded, please do NOT post your question directly. Instead, type your question into a document, then type 'question' into the chat.
14:00:54 ‹Bring4th_Monica› As soon as Carla is done with her current question, I will say "You (name) are up next...please post your question now" then you can copy and paste your question into the chat without having to spend time typing it. This should help keep the chat somewhat orderly and avoid chaos! Feel free to post a follow-up question if needed, when Carla asks for it.
14:01:06 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hopefully we will back to full function next time...in the meantime, thanks to everyone for your understanding and cooperation!
14:01:29 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Sort of like raising your hand in class & I'll call on you.
14:00:12 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey Peels! Hey Oguz and Monica! Looks like we're in the roundtable again today!
14:00:27 ‹peelstreetguy› Carla, I hope you are starting to feel better
14:00:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So, Monica, how's the girl? How would you like to do this today?
14:01:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, Peels, I am still way under the weather, but in fine spirits and loving the world! Monica, do we have a first question?
14:02:25 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Does anyone have a question? If so just say yes or 'question'
14:03:03 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I guess that's you peels & oguz...cozy small group today.
14:03:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› While we're waiting for a question to occur, I'll natter on about things here -
14:03:14 ‹oguz›
14:03:37 ‹Bring4th_Monica› ok
14:03:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It has been rainy all week, and I am SO impressed with my beautiful husband that he got all his mowing jobs done! More
14:04:16 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And him without a helper now! But he says he likes it better working alone, anyhow. So he's a happy man. More
14:04:51 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Just as I said that, the sun came out for the first time this week! It darted behind a cloud within seconds, but what a rush of joy to see the sun shine!
14:05:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› We have flood advisories all over, now, and just got back on to safe water from a Boil Water Advisory, that's how flooded we are right now! More
14:05:43 ‹peelstreetguy› pouring rain here, but my herbs are sprouting
14:05:57 ‹Bring4th_Monica› It's raining here too, after a year of drought.
14:06:22 ‹oguz› its sunshiny in my city
14:06:50 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I can hear him outside now, cutting the lawn - er, meadow - here at Camelot. What a joy to feel the energy right now, with this lush, green blooming time! What herbs are you growing, Peels?
14:07:36 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Carla, I'll start: Did Steve ask you about the checkerboard on the chat 2 weeks ago? I missed that chat. If he did ask the question for me, sorry for the duplication. I'm wondering what the checkerboard pattern is significant of...when I rub my eyes I see checkerboards and other geometric shapes. It intensified when I got initiated into Kriya Yoga, but I haven't kept up the practice unfortunately.
14:08:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Monica, typing on that -
14:08:17 ‹Bring4th_Monica› And of course the checkerboard is always seen on Tarot cards and other esoteric stuff...
14:08:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I do not think Steve got that question asked, although I remember we talked a little about it, as I recall pointing out the checkering on the cover of 101: The Choice. More
14:09:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I do not know what the checkerboard images might represent. However, just musing on it, I know that sacred geometrical forms make up our illusion. More
14:11:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› A lot of times, I will start seeing a kind of mesh, which is close to checkerboard-shapes. Only the sections of mesh are oval rather than with corners. I asked Q'uo about that, one time, and they said that I was seeing into the way the illusion was coming into my vision - you know, we don't see the way we think we do. More
14:11:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› We see as a computer does, in little pixels. So maybe your checkerboarding is the pixels. More
14:12:26 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Reminds me of when Neo saw the code in The Matrix
14:12:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In fact, our bio-computers focus first on any face in our field of view, getting the detail going there before working on the rest of the view. We think we're seeing a whole picture - but we are not! Isn't that fascinating?
14:13:09 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Exactly, Monica. That was such a true movie! L/L xxx
14:14:27 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I think there has to be something significant to it, because the old Tarot decks always have checkerboard floors...like on The Priestess card...pathworking temples usually have checkerboard floors...and all those psychedelic posters from the 60s have those checkerboards distorted....those posters that is exactly what it looks like when I rub my eyes....and NO I'm not doing drugs! :p
14:15:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There is no drug as powerful as a really good meditation, as far as I know! Plus, good after-effects. That's my drug of choice, the Silence!
14:15:56 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Yeah definitely!
14:17:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey guys, who has a hot topic?
14:17:09 ‹oguz› a question: what are 5 spiritual books Carla would recommend?
14:17:30 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, oguz, typing on that.
14:17:46 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Law of One, Books 1-5 (sorry for answering you, Carla, but I just couldn't resist, hahaha!)
14:18:02 ‹endsubasi› I greet you with light of the confederation
14:18:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I like the Law of One series, of course - that counts as one, though, not five! More
14:18:24 ‹Bring4th_Monica› yeah I was just kidding ;->
14:18:27 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I greet you also in L/L, dear Endsubasi - back to the favorite spiritual books.
14:18:56 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I love the Kybalion. there's a wonderful little book called The Impersonal Life. So that's three. More
14:19:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Anything by Joel Goldsmith, that's four. And I'd round it out with Autobiography of a Yogi, by Paramahansa Yogananda. What about you, oguz? What are your five favorites?
14:20:14 ‹oguz› hmm
14:20:19 ‹oguz› my 5 are
14:20:27 ‹oguz› Conversations with God
14:20:39 ‹oguz› Pleiadian teachings
14:20:46 ‹oguz› Law of One
14:20:56 ‹oguz› Cassiopaean teachings
14:21:01 ‹oguz› and P'taah
14:21:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK! How about you, Monica? What are your five favorites?
14:21:52 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Oh wow, do I have to limit it to 5? ok here goes
14:22:04 ‹endsubasi› Thanks Carla my favorite books are the Law of One
14:22:25 ‹endsubasi› and others-the Law of One series
14:22:44 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Law of One, Autobiography of a Yogi, Many Mansions, The Mists of Avalon, Inner Guide Meditation
14:23:06 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Mists of Avalon is fiction but it's spiritually profound
14:23:28 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Oh man, I loved the Mists of Avalon! Such a good book! Peels, how about you? I think everyone else has chimed in!
14:23:39 ‹peelstreetguy› ok
14:23:47 ‹endsubasi› when you have read the Law of One series you don't need to search another book
14:25:08 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Thanks, ends! I read something from TLOO every day at Morning Offering. And it never gets old. it seems to grow with me as I mature spiritually. It meets me wherever I am!
14:24:23 ‹endsubasi› Ra tells us everything what cosmic reality in the Law of One series
14:24:01 ‹peelstreetguy› First, The Law of One
14:24:53 ‹peelstreetguy› Second, The middle pillar by Isreal Regardie and edited and annotated by chic and tabitha Cicero
14:25:24 ‹peelstreetguy› Third, The Mysical Qabalah by Dion Fortune
14:25:48 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Wow, Peels - that is one dense book! Good but it was like reading german philosophy to read that book! I am impressed!
14:26:00 ‹peelstreetguy› Fourth, Initiation into Hermetica by Franz Bardon
14:26:48 ‹peelstreetguy› Fifth will be Your book the Law of One 101when i'm finished reading it
14:26:22 ‹endsubasi› I thank very much Carla Lisbeth, Don Elkins and Jim McCarty
14:27:16 ‹Bring4th_Monica› OMG Dion Fortune! I agree, and I am impressed also! Thanks for the reminder - I knew I was forgetting something important: The Esoteric Philosophy of Love and Marriage by Dione Fortune!!!
14:27:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, thanks for that, Peels! So you're more focused into opening your magical personality. Me too. I love the works of WIlliam E. Butler.
14:27:35 ‹peelstreetguy› The new version of the middle pillar of which I speak is better than the original in my opinion
14:27:52 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Is there a new one? I will have to check that out!
14:28:25 ‹peelstreetguy› it has all the original text but the annotations and extra stuff written by the Ciceros
14:28:38 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is such a resource to have such great books to read - sometimes for information, and more often for inspiration.
14:28:49 ‹peelstreetguy› is quite enlightening
14:29:10 ‹peelstreetguy› They knew Israel Regardie
14:29:17 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Carla have you read The Esoteric Philosophy of Love and Marriage by Dione Fortune?
14:29:21 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› was that a pun, Peels? LOL! en LIGHT ening!
14:30:17 ‹peelstreetguy› lol, it just came out that way
14:29:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› No, Monica, I haven't read Fortune's book on love and marriage. I love her Psychic Self-Defense. Is that one good too?
14:30:23 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Oh yes yes Yes!!! Very, very, VERY deep stuff on the chakras and energy exchange.
14:30:56 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Gotta get that book! It will be interesting to see how it is handled there, as opposed to my 101 book.
14:31:22 ‹Bring4th_Monica› How what is handled?
14:32:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The chakras and energy exchanges. I spend a good half of 101 discussing the chakras. A god understanding of them helps a lot in playing the game of Life!
14:31:00 ‹peelstreetguy› I've got to get another copy of Psychic Self Defense
14:31:44 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Ends, are you having trouble staying hooked in to the chat room? I saw your name blink out and then back on.
14:32:16 ‹endsubasi› yes i must refresh the browser
14:32:24 ‹peelstreetguy› I have a question. Shall I post it?
14:32:33 ‹Bring4th_Monica› yes please do
14:32:47 ‹peelstreetguy› Question: I've been thinking since the last chat I attended, and have come to the conclusion that I have much love and compassion as well as a decent amount of wisdom. My biggest problem seems to be that I have no will power! I feel strongly that if I had great will power, that I would be able to advance much more rapidly. right now, I can't seem to quit addictions, of which I have a few and can't seem to do the things I know I should do, like working out and meditating and so forth. I've come to the conclusion that this is what I need to take care of in this incarnation. But the war in my brain continues....I've seen much light and feel a duty to reflect it. Love/wisdom /will power. Love is the law, Love under a strong will. I really need to find or build my will power, before I'm mentally torn apart. It is affecting not only me, but others around me. It makes me feel bad. Carla, could you comment on this?
14:33:42 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Surely, Peels - typing on that.
14:34:19 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Firstly, there is no human on Earth who is without some of those feelings of "I could do better" including me. More
14:34:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But I understand what you mean when you say that love and wisdom are fine, but without the right use of will nd your personal power, you're spinning your wheels. More
14:35:17 ‹peelstreetguy› exactly
14:35:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Now let's look at the addictions. (By the way, that word breaks down into addition plus 'c' - c for crave! More
14:36:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So there are some things which you feel on some level add to your life. I would hazard a general guess that one of them is drugs - whether that means caffeine, sugar, pot, coke or other stuff. More
14:37:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› What you need to figure out for yourself is what is making you feel the need for that addition to your life. More
14:37:59 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Sometimes the need is for a short-cut to peace. That would probably be red-ray, where you are just trying to survive in a hectic world. More
14:38:31 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Another red-ray addiction is food, where you eat to fill the isolation and gain comfort. More
14:39:29 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Whatever addictions you are experiencing, when you solve the riddle of "why", then you can far more easily tackle down-sizing your addiction into a preference. More
14:39:58 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› If you have multiple addictions, then you need to select the one you would most like not to have, and work only on that one. More
14:40:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› A lot of fear will come up, as well as anger and bargaining and the other aspects of the grief process. More
14:41:10 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So give yourself at least a month to work on that single issue. Do not judge yourself at any point. Just flex your will each time you find yourself craving that addiction. More
14:41:51 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I have found that once the habitual aspect of using falls away, it becomes way easier to drop the addictive habit. More
14:42:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So what you are really working on is "just say no". That is a hard little sentence to make come true, but that's the deal. Now, when you have achieved recovery from one addiction, you will feel your will becoming stronger. More
14:43:45 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Keep watching yourself, and carefully select the next worst habit that you want to break. be very deliberate here, and again, give yourself time to fall down and get back up as many times as it takes. More
14:44:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The pay-off for not having addictions is that in fact, they slow you down spiritually, so as you eliminate addictions, your spiritual walk becomes more lucid and creative. So there's a definite carrot factor! More
14:46:03 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› As to working out, I think the secret is to find some activity you actually enjoy. For example, I used to adore walking in the park, and would dance through the exercise in a state of bliss. I can't walk any more, but for years, I was faithful because I so loved being out there. More
14:46:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Ditto with gardening, which I used to do with great passion. More
14:47:25 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Gary loves hiking, and so he's in good shape. One idea is to hook up with a habitat for Humanity group in your city. Working with that crew a couple times a week is probably a good way to get exercise, but you are also helping others. More
14:48:39 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The trick is to find something that not only fulfills your need for keeping your body toned but also satisfies your soul. Then you don't have to flog yourself into exercising - you look forward to it. Do you have a follow-up, Peels?
14:49:11 ‹peelstreetguy› yes.. This may take a minute to type
14:50:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Aki! Blessings! We're talking about addictions.
14:50:47 ‹Hkelukka› blessings to you too, I got a flat for myself ^_^ Happy seeker moved into a new place!
14:51:59 ‹Hkelukka› How much longer will you be online Carla?
14:53:30 ‹Bring4th_Monica› We might end early today, if there aren't many questions... So far there have been very few... So after the addiction topic has ended, if anyone else has questions, please ask them! But for now, we are still on the addictions topic.
14:53:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Hey, Mazeltov, Aki! I hope you remembered to pack your angels! As to how long we're on line today, that will depend on if the conversation continues. If people run out of questions, we could all agree to leave early. But if things keep popping as far as topics of interest, I will be here till 5, my time, as usual,.
14:54:08 ‹Hkelukka› which would be for about 1 more hour ?
14:54:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Right, Aki!
14:54:19 ‹peelstreetguy› I have gained the ability to talk with my guides or higher self or whatever answers my question in my head and have come to the conclusion that I know exactly what I have to do. I have a workout bench and have to use it as well as jog. I really need to meditate and start using the practices of the middle pillar book. I think I've screwed myself by relying on a crutch to feel the creator without as well as within. When I drink a six pack and smoke a joint, I can feel the creation like crazy. I can feel the incredible power of my soul so much, it feels like I could burst. I can open my heart chakra real easily.
14:54:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› yes. Go on, Peels.
14:55:08 ‹peelstreetguy› ok...
14:57:19 ‹peelstreetguy› I ran into a girl on the subway last week, and she had a Long bow and I talked to her about it and I think I will go and join their club next week. It is in the evening of Tuesday. I only drink beer at night during the week, so I will try to stay straight and go do that instead. I've always wanted to try archery.
14:57:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In general, I feel that a certain amount of recreational beer drinking and toking is a simple pleasure, not one that destroys your brain cells or creates health problems down the line. As long as the usage is moderate and not daily, you are probably not in a bad situation. More
14:58:33 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And substituting an activity for the solitary, sedentary habit of zoning out is a good plan.
14:59:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But what you are expressing here is not just that you want to change your life-style but also that you have felt powerless to do so.
14:59:32 ‹peelstreetguy› I drink every night. It is my worst addiction that needs to be delt with.
15:00:06 ‹Bring4th_Monica› So the real issue is the sense of powerlessness, not the substance itself?
15:00:21 ‹peelstreetguy› I'm a record with a big scratch, I keep skipping and it's driving me nuts!
15:00:21 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So I would address that aspect separately. Personal power comes to one who sets himself to a task and perseveres.
15:01:21 ‹peelstreetguy› Personal power, will power, what is the difference?
15:01:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› OK, let's back up and tackle the drinking. My Mom was a recovering alcoholic for the last 13 years of her life. I was extremely proud of her. But it took her about a decade of slipping over and over again before she got disgusted enough with herself to make the change. More
15:02:21 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› She went to AA and swore by that as the factor that helped her stop drinking. She never lost the desire to drink, but she took it one day at a time and stayed sober. More
15:02:54 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It helped, also, that I did a "tough love" thing and refused to see her till she was sober, as she ahd instructed me to do. It was hard but it worked. More
15:03:56 ‹endsubasi› Drinking alcohol is a good friend in this capitalist world
15:04:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So if the archery palls, get to an AA meeting and say, "I'm me, and I am an alcoholic." You will have an instant support group and they have meetings every night of the week. They wrok! And tell your SO's about Alanon. That works too. [heart icon]
15:00:56 ‹Hkelukka› can i give a recommendation?
15:04:23 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› AKi, did you have a recommendation?
15:04:50 ‹Hkelukka› I did but i was asking if its okay by peel if i say so
15:04:51 ‹peelstreetguy› I can't bring myself to go to AA. I feel I must do this on my own
15:05:04 ‹peelstreetguy› sure HK
15:05:57 ‹peelstreetguy› What is you recommendation?
15:06:50 ‹Hkelukka› don't try to stop drinking, that would not work, instead, try to say that "just for today i will not drink" or make a decision that for "this specific period of time i will not drink" and then, if you can, expand the time and make it more often but start small like "just for the next 2 hours" and so on and then you will gain confidence to tackle the larger issue
15:08:25 ‹Hkelukka› since you will eventually drink again, if not in this life then most likely in another life if only to experience it again so to say "i will quite drinkin" you say you will never do it again, which denies yourself the right to do it which is, in general, a bad way to go, simply say that "I have decided that for today, i will not drink"
15:07:14 ‹peelstreetguy› interesting...
15:07:28 ‹peelstreetguy› I just did that with pot last week
15:07:45 ‹peelstreetguy› I don't smoke during the day anymore
15:08:03 ‹peelstreetguy› it was hard but I'm getting used to it
15:06:10 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Peels, that is what my Mom said the whole time she was slipping and drinking. She thought those people were just too, too tacky. And maybe they are. But their hearts are as big as the world and they care. I mean, it is totally your call, but please reconsider AA if doing it on your own proves too hard.
15:08:32 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Hey peels, that alone is a huge accomplishment!!! I know so many people who get high all day long, every day. Just cutting back to evenings, and then maybe to weekends, is a huge accomplishment! You should give yourself a BIG HUG!
15:08:35 ‹Hkelukka› and then say to yourself "tomorrow, if I want, i can, but today, i will not
15:08:44 ‹Hkelukka› thats my recommendation on that
15:09:15 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I think both ideas have value and could work
15:09:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I think it is a sound one, Aki, and it comes right out of AA! This stuff does work!
15:09:28 ‹peelstreetguy› Thank you Monica, and Hk it is good advice.
15:09:55 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› And I agree with Monica - You are definitely gaining on it, Peels.
15:10:27 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I remember when I quit pot, it was very difficult because of the spiritual factor. I agree that it helped to open the heart chakra. What helped me was replacing it with meditation. I still wonder if it might not be useful in moderation, though.
15:10:50 ‹peelstreetguy› My brother was a wicked drunk and AA has helped him, but I don't think it is my path, it is my responsibility to fix myself and I will become stronger in the long run that way
15:11:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But now for thinking about the right use of will, the right use of personal power. Peels, the fact that your favorite spiritual books are in the area of Western White Magic indicates that you are comfortable orienting yourself to the spiritual path as a magician. More
15:12:42 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There is a tremendous power in us all, the power of the will. Ra mentioned once that the three dynamics of spiritual seeking were wisdom, love and power. They said that Don represented wisdom, I represented love and Jim's forte was power. it really balanced our group that this was so. More
15:13:11 ‹peelstreetguy› I have surrounded myself with everything I need to overcome all this, I've taken great pains to do so, then I look at it all and open a beer, LOL! next thing I know, I've used none of it...
15:13:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Anyway, power is developed by use. Just as a muscle is developed by exercise, so is personal power developed by its use. More
15:15:00 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So Peels, in terms of using it, focus in on that moment before you pop the top on a beer and use your personal will power to put the beer back in the fridge. Then move away and into another activity.- something absorbing. Set your intention to do that, right at that moment. Does that sound do-able?
15:15:32 ‹peelstreetguy› I think so
15:15:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, god luck with it.
15:16:14 ‹peelstreetguy› Thank you all so much for the great insight!!!! Maybe you are my AA, LOL!
15:15:56 ‹endsubasi› (:>
15:16:35 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Good luck peels! We're all behind you! I felt a wave of love & support sent in your direction!
15:16:44 ‹peelstreetguy› Carla, you are very right about the magical path
15:17:03 ‹peelstreetguy› thank you all soooo much! (l)
15:15:41 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Carla, I have a related follow-up question: Do you think occasional use of natural highs like pot for spiritual purposes atrophy the 6th chakra, and inhibit the natural opening of the chakra in the long run? Or do you think occasional (like weekend) use might actually enhance it? And, if so, wouldn't the addiction need to be eradicated FIRST before moderation can be enjoyed? I noticed that in my life...had to give it all up totally, then was able to go back later and enjoy the occasional glass of wine ;-> I wonder if some might be able to go from addiction to moderation, or do they need to quit?
15:16:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, typing on that -
15:17:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It depends totally on the person using the pot. To some hard-headed souls, occasional use is fine. It stays in the system for 29 days; It has X and Y chemical changes in the brain associated with it, and that's it. No hangover, no guilt, no down side. More
15:18:01 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› To others, one toke and the person is high, gone, wasted. And as soon as it wears off, there is a craving for more. So there's no one answer. More
15:19:02 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In no case do I think that the use of pot atrophies the indigo-ray chakra. I see it as a distraction in that it is a false high. It will wear off. More
15:19:53 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› That does not mean it is not recreationally pleasant, because for most people, it is. But it is not a path to enlightenment. it is a path to sit in the bleachers and get what enlightenment would be like if you weren't on pot! More
15:20:26 ‹peelstreetguy› LOL! true, very true!
15:21:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I guess in general my feeling is very open about pot and booze and other low-end mood-changers as long as the person using them is doing so with full awareness that they have little to do with true spirituality. More
15:23:26 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Ah, very insightful! That's pretty much what I was thinking...if the person feels like they just HAVE to have it, then that's a sign of addiction. Whereas, if it's just a casual take-it-or-leave-it, then it's probably benign. Why do you think it's a false high? Same with mushrooms & peyote used in Native ceremonies. But that is done w lots of respect & preparation, not to just get wasted. So maybe attitude has something to do with it.
15:23:46 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› To work directly on quickening the pace of your spiritual maturation and evolution, keeping it simple works best. Work with the body - the breath, the exercise. Work with the mind - visualization practice, entering the silence, having a Rule of Life that you follow, by gum, especially when it is inconvenient - those are the simple, common-sense ways to power up one's will. And these things only falter when mood-changers like pot and booze are involved. So again the good old AA motto, KISS - "Keep it simple, stupid." And again, dear peels, we're with you.
15:23:50 ‹Hkelukka› can i offer a view here?
15:24:24 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, as far as I am concerned, Aki -
15:24:46 ‹peelstreetguy› go for it HK
15:25:00 ‹Bring4th_Monica› We're a little more causal today, Aki, since we don't have the full functions of the chat room and there are so few people.
15:25:20 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› While Aki is typing, I'll answer Monica on false high -
15:25:28 ‹Bring4th_Monica› oops I meant casual not causal, though I guess we are causal too!
15:25:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I called it false because it fades. Whereas if you get high on life, it is permanent. [heart icon]
15:25:50 ‹Hkelukka› I would ask simply, are you using the substance to run away from something or towards something. IF you are using it to run towards something it is generally a good thing, if you are using it to run away from something it is generally a bad thing (For your development)
15:26:30 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› LOL, Monica!
15:26:37 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Ah, ok. Good then you didn't mean that any experiences you might have while high aren't still valuable or insightful...which is what some people say.
15:26:41 ‹Hkelukka› if you are running away from facing an issue by using drugs you are "addicted" to the escape, if you are using drugs to face an issue you are using it along the paths most beneficial. So, ask yourself, "am i using this out of fear (Running away from something) or love (running towards something) thats my view on it
15:27:24 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Oh wow I love it, Aki!
15:27:35 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Although, AKi, peels is experiencing the detrimental effects of daily use, and at that point the booze is in charge. More
15:27:58 ‹peelstreetguy› Monica, you would probably like to read the answer that Q'uo gives to a question I asked concerning mushrooms and other halucinogens. It is on the L/L Research site under March 28. Extremely insightful and has helped me a great deal with understanding that stuff (entheogens).
15:28:12 ‹Bring4th_Monica› thanks peels!
15:28:55 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› It is like he is no longer running from or to anything. he is an instrument through which the beer gets to drink itself. - if you see what i mean. So I think the analogy breaks down there, where one is truly addicted, as peels says he is. Otherwise, I think your opinion is sound.
15:29:23 ‹peelstreetguy› you are right Carla
15:30:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Peels, I am an old hand at this cuzza my Mom. But she did move away from addiction and into preference, and each day she preferred not to drink. So that's the general plan. and again, good luck!!! I will pray for you.
15:30:31 ‹peelstreetguy› Thanks again Carla for the answers Q'uo gives to the two questions I submitted (one on addiction and one on hallucinogens)
15:30:44 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Profound distinction, Carla! Unless there is more follow up on the addiction issue, Aki you had a question?
15:30:57 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Oh, yes! You are most welcome. I liked those responses too. They were so common-sense.
15:31:09 ‹peelstreetguy› I'm done. Thank you all
15:31:22 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› [heart icon]
15:31:31 ‹peelstreetguy› [heart icon]
15:32:08 ‹Hkelukka› knowledge of the function of addiction and why you are addicted (What you fear to face) is one of the keys, as far as i have seen, to beat addiction. Thus in your case the fear is running your life through addiction and you are no longer, in any way in control, though Carla is correct in that it has spiraled out of your control
15:32:11 ‹Hkelukka› my chat lags by about 35 seconds due to my bad modem
15:32:51 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Did you have a new question Aki?
15:33:14 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Well, while we are waiting on Aki's question, I will note that my husband, the incredible Mick, has now finished cutting and trimming and is now detailing the lawn out by blowing all the debris from walks and stuff. Oh, the joy of having a new-cut lawn! Smiles all around! :>
15:33:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I can hear the blower going, so I can visualize everything from that!
15:34:17 ‹peelstreetguy› I felt great resonance when Ra suggested that Jim exercise as part of anger management in book 5
15:34:49 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Yes, Peels, it was wonderful advice. More
15:35:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› He still has an Irish temper, and when "one more thing" happens on top of the load he carries, he can spike. More
15:35:47 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› But these days he is far better at containing the fire-hose effect and seldom breaks his bones or his things when the spike hits. More
15:36:34 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I don't think we lose these tendencies. We find that our old methods of responding to them are not serving us, so we explore new ways. Mick has come a really long way.
15:35:33 ‹Hkelukka› I have several questions in mind but I have trouble putting them into words since they are fairly abstract at the moment. I'm trying to think of a good particular one, i do have quite a few.
15:36:23 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Aki, just feel free to post your question if you have one, ok? In the meantime, I have another question, Carla: When an STS entity tries to depolarize someone, do you think there can be actual possession?
15:36:50 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Monica, typing on that -
15:37:18 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I have seen such possession up close, so the answer is strongly positive. Yes, there can be an actual possession. More
15:38:26 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Here is how it works. First, there is the person who feels inadequate. This person likes the idea of having a connection with an entity that is more powerful. So the person sets out to learn to channel, or something akin to that. More
15:39:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› The person does not work within the rules of his teacher - do this only with the group, do not practice this alone or at home. More
15:39:38 ‹Bring4th_Monica› I saw it leave one person (who had a profound, lasting spiritual breakthru) and go into another...who now exhibits the same patterns of hostility... When looking at this person, it's as if the person we knew is buried very deep, and only surfaces occasionally...I know the person is very hurt & weak... Any suggestions on how to help the person get strong and get the entity to leave?
15:40:07 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› He feels that he will be OK. So he begins to get a contact. This contact will tell him how very special he is. Twice in my career as a teacher of channeling I had the person tell me she was going to be the mother of the second coming of Christ - her contat told her so. More
15:40:27 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Both of these people ended up in the psych ward here in a Louisville hospital. More
15:41:43 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› There was also a guy who ended up falling to the floor of my office and foaming at the mouth during a counseling session. he was very proud of having been able to channel a source and had been practicing by himself at his motel. His source promised to solve every problem L/L had. This was shortly before the poor man went into a fugue. More
15:42:25 ‹oguz› oh mi
15:42:40 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I called together the 8 people who had been studying with him, and we all laid hands on him and called him back. He came back pretty quick, thank God. And was he embarrassed. He never did continue with his work. More
15:43:38 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› So I am very strong on telling folks only to consult their guidance from within their own energy field. DO NOT CHANNEL BY YOURSELF! It is a crowded universe out there! Monica, did I answer your query or is there more?
15:44:09 ‹Bring4th_Monica› Wow, intense! This case is more subtle, and did not involve channeling. But there was a definite point at which I detected an STS passenger riding in this person. Carla I think maybe you missed my last post, a few
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