Bring4th

I hope the above Youtube video plays correctly.

The idea is basically this: Salary sharing.

You enter into agreements with one another whereby you pool your collective salaries and then share it equally amongst each other based on individual labour hours incurred in order to make the respective contribution to the pool vs. the total labour hours incurred by the group. Can be done monthly.

Thus, all parties end up by earning the same remuneration rate per hour of labour, irrespective of any prejudice, such as age, nature of work, gender, race, nature of work, nature of work, nature of work...you get the point. Same rates for cleaners to CEO's, if possible...please God! But top level management doesn't even need to get involved in order for this initiative to be globally effective. Think about it Wanderers and just plain old deep thinkers (the real McCoy's)!

The "thinkers"/"managers"/etc. can only "think" because the "doers" are taking care of the "doing". No Human should have to work "for" another, but rather with one another. No "bosses" or "customers"...just People.

No more complaining at each other, but rather just saying, "hey, what went wrong here? Let's see if we can fix the problem and then come up with a way to do it better next time."

An hour's worth of any Human's labour...is worth an hour of Human labour. Plain and simple. The "manager" can only "manage" because the "data capturer" does the "data capturing". Both tasks are irrelevant and pitiful...it's the results of the labour that we all want. And results can only be measured when energy has been transferred between human beings, which on a "company" level and in our current system of valuing human endeavours, means when the "sale" has been done...which the entire "company" had to contribute towards!

So you tell me:

Do we pay each other different amounts of currency per labour hour because it's fair? Or

Because we are simply being greedy towards one another? Do we not have any friends out there? Can we not at least start making small groups of friends at our place of work? Is this too much to ask? "Atoms" now need to coalesce into "Molecules". Our system needs to flourish. The time is ripe!

You do this...my friend...welcome to paradise! You don't need clouds and harps...the action, entertainment, comedy and endless possibilities are all right here! The stress in your office will melt away like an ice cream flake on a hot waffle, which you can then chow...and then have a bong of the sickest chronic ever! No more animosity, anger, greed, jealousy, bitchiness, lack of communication, lack of motivation, lack of energy, lack of creativity, lack of love...lack of good old fun. We should all be having waaaay more chill time, just watch my little video on Youtube titled "Declaration of Unity". We are only working to enslave ourselves. The system is designed for effortless fun. It is why you feel generally depressed. We are even happy to have imbalance amongst the closest of "peers"...even "family" members???

Your bosses can piss off if they don't like it, it won't affect their pockets. It is just an agreement between friends to share their incomes...plain and simple. Just set up a few stop orders with your banks and you are done.

Soon the crowd adopting this approach will be doing business so much better than the old greedy buggers sticking to the imbalanced retard system. We will literally steal the "wealth" from under them. It will be totally legal. But please, all just forgive and forget. No blaming. Just change to the new system. End of transaction.

And...most importantly...we will be freeing up real tangible, spiritual, American Indian and Mayan calendar kinda frigging energy! Energy that has been slowly siphoned from us and stored in the 'ether' in the innocently titled vessel called "Retained Earnings". That is the "Anti-Christ"..."profits". That is our false idol. Profits are simply a license to steal wealth from one another...one top of the stealing via imbalanced salaries. If the Rich still think that they have such a fantastic system here with their imbalanced salaries, then let them stick with it on their side. We will soon be 'moving' away from them anyway. Everything should be done at cost, after simply accounting for all Human labour involved...end of story.

This is exactly why stock markets fall, because the masses keep getting aggravated from time to time and they shift a little of the stolen "~60%" wealth back to them. Time to stop getting aggravated. Time to chill the Hell down and get a little smart. It is what we were designed to be. And if you are reminded of the teachings of "Jesus"...don't be alarmed.

I am done talking...

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For the love of "Ra" and all that is "Holy". Please can some of you use your internet savvy to make this go "viral". It can be so effective. The "Harvest" can begin!

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It is the regular "office folk" who have the real power in society. If a few key individuals adopt this and they are in a position to offer the new system to entire "departments". We are talking real "9th wave" speed here...

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Become one with the concept and then make your own initiatives to spread the Word...

That would be difficult because the ones that make more, tend to have more expenses in life. Sharing equally like that would make things difficult for those who initially made more.

Couldn't we at least start labelling that pure greed? Shouldn't people start making commitments to start cutting expenses? For their own sake.

Consider it viral! I have the powa!

Values need to change before a system like that can work. But I only think something like that could work if everyone could indeed contribute equally, averaged over a year, perhaps. Or if there was some kind of shared consensus with complete honesty, like a SMC.

Wealth is often created for others by individual inspiration and personal imagination. If that wealth is redistributed before it can be leveraged in that manner, then we'd necessarily depend on some kind of 'cooperating group mind' to create wealth instead. Problem is that a lot of perceived value comes from uniquely crafted, personal ideas. If your personal experiences over many years created a vision of societal value, how do you educate others in that plan efficiently and would they go along with it? If not, then you must join someone else's mindset, with their business plan and buy into their ideas of value.

sounds too much like communism to me. or peer induced fascism. the big fishes aren't gonna let go of their salaries. nor should they. the changes should start within, and then these changes will occur but we can't force them.

Azrael - you are a star! Thank you so much for just accepting the idea for what it is...

To the others,

I am trying to start this within. Been offering to share my salary with everyone in my accounts department who is currently perceived to be on the same level as me, i.e. just excluding the "financial director". I am the most highly qualified individual within this same group. Still waiting for someone to take my offer...

Still so many old views floating around here. Ever hear of a little theory called "The Law of One"? Or the teachings of people like Buddha or Jesus? Our old system of imbalance clearly needed to serve a purpose to drive our "early models", but we are now ready to move onto a new system.

Basically, anyone "smart" enough will agree with this and simply try to implement it in their own lives/companies. These "early adopters" will grow in strength and separate themselves from the old system. This is the "Harvest"/"Rapture" as far as I know.

If we all aimed to be "electrons" there would be no "nucleus'" with which to build "atoms". What part of this is tricky to understand?

I think I need to also make a version of this video that has "copyright free" music on it (if any at all perhaps). Any thoughts on making my message clearer?

Thanks for your time/energy people. Mine is starting to run low...

Oceania, Communism is a beautiful concept. The only thing that went wrong with it was the usual stuff: the upper management's greediness. The "first amongst equals" concept creeped in, and we tainted that concept also.

Desires are not similar enough. We might as well have shared equal sex too, no? But one guy's version of how it should be done is not the same as another guy's. As for money, one person is a saver and the other a spender. One household with 60" tvs and xbox consoles, the other has a loaf of bread and a bag of money under the mattress. Is that fair? What about if rough times come and the only money in the neighborhood is under that mattress? Should the saver distribute it evenly? I suppose they should, but people aren't going to be okay with that unless it is like zenmaster described above.

The amount of money each person has really isn't an issue to solve our situation.

There are examples of this type of model in action in America. They are in Michael Moore's Film Capitalism: A Love Story. I cannot remember the names or specifics of the companies, but one scene focused on the warehouse packaging plant. The warehouse workers made $60,000 a year, same as the warehouse manager, same as the CEO. The executive were humble, saying, "What do we need 20 cars for?" The other company was a little different, run sort of like a democracy. All business decisions were voted on by employees, and each employee in the company had an equal vote. You'd imagine it's much harder to cut someone's salary when they're sitting in the room watching you vote on it. Both companies, by the movie's depictions, were very well functioning with very happy employees. However, whenever referencing a Michael Moore film, it's important to point out the deceiving techniques he can use to portray his point. I thought the idea for the businesses were nice though.

Everyone getting paid the same does nothing to direct resources to actual problem solving. Problem solving here is accomplished by those with unique experience and who, using their will, with diligent effort to address a particular need in a novel manner. Recognition of a need, use of will, a particular desire, or a talent can not be spread out and thus watered down and accomplish the same thing in an efficient manner. If I need to build capital for a project, but instead distribute wealth to others just for the sake of it, that is not going to help unless the others put the money back in. You'd have to make everyone a 'board member', regardless of their experience, knowledge, and appreciation for what it is the company does.

(08-18-2011, 07:58 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone getting paid the same does nothing to direct resources to actual problem solving. Problem solving here is accomplished by those with unique experience and who, using their will, with diligent effort to address a particular need in a novel manner.

politically correct excuse for feeling special - elitism.

doesnt matter how you package it. the moment you attribute 'superior' status to anyone for any reason, and deem them entitled to MORE than others, you create elitism. reasons, ends, means, do not matter. the mechanics is inevitable.

Quote:Recognition of a need, use of will, a particular desire, or a talent can not be spread out and thus watered down and accomplish the same thing in an efficient manner. If I need to build capital for a project, but instead distribute wealth to others just for the sake of it, that is not going to help unless the others put the money back in. You'd have to make everyone a 'board member', regardless of their experience, knowledge, and appreciation for what it is the company does.

all the above is just a politically correct repackaging of capitalist inequality and self furtherance.

No, 'elitism' and 'being special' is your projection, along with all of your other fear and attachment-based projections.

Greetings, Cosmic Giant.

I appreciate what you are trying to do here, but this situation is not possible; not because of greed, ignorance, or will against the idea. It's what money is based upon, and that is value. We currently value human labor according to perceived (or as a liberal economist would put it, market determined) price of labor.

Value is an inverse relationship between quantity (in this case, supply of money), and desire (demand for 'goods', or consumables). Even if we abstract this further, we can demonstrate that value itself is based upon inequality.

If I have a cup of water, and you have a cup of water, there is no incentive for us to see value in each others water (if this is all we related it to, not to biological properties or etc). The very act of trading here disappears, there is no need to 'exchange' because we are in equal standing. However, if I drink my cup of water and you save yours for later, when you become very thirsty, suddenly your water becomes very valuable to me. I then proceed to clean your entire house for a sip of water (heh).

Value is based upon inequality, and as long as we seek 'values', we are creating inequalities between objects of value. Value is always compared against something else.

In your case, money, being evenly distributed, would be valueless. The only reason the rich are so 'rich' is because the money they have is not in the hands of others.

The money becomes more valuable the more inequality there is- more people will be willing to work for whatever wage they can get, if there are super rich people. As we slide towards equilibrium, the value system breaks down (that is, inequality does not exist). So the main problem here is not money, it's the value system that lies at the heart of how we value things in this world (indeed a conversation about something that is absent in our lives reminds us of it's importance. Perhaps your reading of the Ra material was an "Ah-ha" moment, but it was only valuable because of the veil of forgetting...if you had already known, the information wouldn't have been as valuable).

I understand I'm reiterating myself here, but it's only to show that since all of our perceptions are based in this manner in 3rd density, there is great merit to the idea that fourth density is one of compassionate, unconditional love. There is no need for value, beings will simply share and serve others without question, need, or thought. All we need can be supplied for each other, spontaneously and without problem. Doing what we love (that is, helping each other out whenever it is needed) would simply produce exactly what we would need for each other. There is no value to this state of being, it is where value arises from, meaning that all value ultimately rests upon how happy it can make us. Hence the idea of non-judgement. We do not place value upon another being, the moment we do, we somehow become inferior or superior to them in some relation (be it social standing, wealth, virtue, etc). By not judging someone, one may see them for who they truly are, not distorted by value judgements (of us vs. them).

So money might be Orion influenced, as Ra has stated, but it is not money in-itself that is evil (indeed, it can be helpful when used for aid situations, or for building infrastructure within society, or feeding your family and children), but since at the heart of money is value (one against another, and not understanding/acting upon/ being in a state of the true oneness of the infinite), then we will always be stuck in this density without understanding this.

So give freely, do not expect anything. Give your love freely. Give your compassion freely. Give your leftover from a meal to a needy person, or give a hug freely. Do not be afraid. Vibrate love, and don't worry about how you should change 'the system', because we are the system we live in. We must change our state of being, rather than our actions.


Much love, light and compassion to all. I send it out, endlessly, in each breath I take, to all of you who have been so helpful and enlightening by sharing your experiences.
Namaste.

Very nice, somaticdreams.

opening my eyes to a more logical way to see how we value personal talents as well. And even how deceitful ways can blind us to seeking idealistic personal talent worship, or thinking other talents are "rich and desirable"

(08-18-2011, 09:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]No, 'elitism' and 'being special' is your projection, along with all of your other fear and attachment-based projections.

insufficient argument. lacks reasoning.

CosmicGiant, while reading through this thread I can feel your enthusiasm as well as your 'need for speed'. There have been many times in my life where I wished things would change and make sense right now. Sadly, they do not change as we wish them to.

I agree on a deeply felt level with what you and others say here, but the outcomes we would love to see are taking a long time to occur on this world, by which I mean centuries, not decades. Perhaps memories of home leave us wondering why change which seems obvious to us is so long in coming..? I do not know. What I do know is that I have often had to reign in my enthusiasm and stop showing people how things can be, because they do not understand and thus treat wanderers as idiots or enemies.

I think I may have said elsewhere in these forums that many wanderers seem to have a deep felt and powerful drive to cause change as soon as possible. Perhaps that is an inherent part of our being. I am now resigned to living out a human lifetime and merely helping others around me see that things are not what they appear to be. In doing so I am not changing the world at large, but the joy in someone helping me see their universe, and me helping them see mine, is wonderful.

(08-18-2011, 09:02 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]doesnt matter how you package it. the moment you attribute 'superior' status to anyone for any reason, and deem them entitled to MORE than others, you create elitism. reasons, ends, means, do not matter. the mechanics is inevitable.

Given this view, how would you propose society should handle anomalies such as child prodigies? If a child exhibits exceptional talent for the piano, is it not appropriate to offer them a space to develop their abilities even further?

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(08-17-2011, 12:38 PM)cosmicgiant Wrote: [ -> ]Do we pay each other different amounts of currency per labour hour because it's fair?

I work for myself. Part of being able to perform the work that I do involved acquiring a degree which cost me roughly $170,000. Plus ongoing interest.

So, are you saying that I should charge the same for an hour of my time as I would pay for a person who spent an hour cutting my grass with a $170 lawnmower? Because if that were the case, it would be utterly impossible for me to earn enough money in a month's time to make my student loan payment, and still feed and clothe myself.

(09-03-2011, 03:57 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Given this view, how would you propose society should handle anomalies such as child prodigies? If a child exhibits exceptional talent for the piano, is it not appropriate to offer them a space to develop their abilities even further?

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being given a piano to develop, is different from being able to eat more food than the next child. it should be 'you are talented in piano. come, here use this piano'. not 'you are talented in piano. here, eat more food than others'.

Quote:I work for myself. Part of being able to perform the work that I do involved acquiring a degree which cost me roughly $170,000. Plus ongoing interest.

So, are you saying that I should charge the same for an hour of my time as I would pay for a person who spent an hour cutting my grass with a $170 lawnmower? Because if that were the case, it would be utterly impossible for me to earn enough money in a month's time to make my student loan payment, and still feed and clothe myself.

the problem here is in the 170 k loan you had to take in order to do what you are doing now. the system groped you by the balls with that, and now you have to perpetuate the system, and its accompanying elitism. it is not the fault of the concept equality that people made education into a machine to milk students.

(08-18-2011, 07:58 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone getting paid the same does nothing to direct resources to actual problem solving. Problem solving here is accomplished by those with unique experience and who, using their will, with diligent effort to address a particular need in a novel manner. Recognition of a need, use of will, a particular desire, or a talent can not be spread out and thus watered down and accomplish the same thing in an efficient manner. If I need to build capital for a project, but instead distribute wealth to others just for the sake of it, that is not going to help unless the others put the money back in. You'd have to make everyone a 'board member', regardless of their experience, knowledge, and appreciation for what it is the company does.

The idea of "putting the money back in" to the particular project is interesting. A board member paying themselves more than laborers (because they feel more qualified to receive those funds for the job they're doing) is basically forcing those laborers to put their money into the project without doing so themselves. They're in fact doing the opposite: lining their pockets with money which could instead be used for the particular project. Capitalists might say you have to offer higher salaries to attract great minds, but if they're just doing it for the money, are they any more passionate about the project than a "normal" laborer?

I wish we could just scrap money in general. It is imaginary value assigned to a generally worthless object (pieces of paper)...our need for it is all in our heads. Then you have credit cards, which is like having a plastic thing that *represents* pieces of paper, which represent an imaginary value. Money is an illusion. If everyone would realize what a bad joke the whole concept is, we would also realize that we don't need money to survive. We only need to care enough to share the real wealth- that which mother Gaia has given to us.

(Ends obligatory rant for the day. :p)

(09-04-2011, 01:51 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-18-2011, 07:58 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone getting paid the same does nothing to direct resources to actual problem solving. Problem solving here is accomplished by those with unique experience and who, using their will, with diligent effort to address a particular need in a novel manner. Recognition of a need, use of will, a particular desire, or a talent can not be spread out and thus watered down and accomplish the same thing in an efficient manner. If I need to build capital for a project, but instead distribute wealth to others just for the sake of it, that is not going to help unless the others put the money back in. You'd have to make everyone a 'board member', regardless of their experience, knowledge, and appreciation for what it is the company does.

The idea of "putting the money back in" to the particular project is interesting. A board member paying themselves more than laborers (because they feel more qualified to receive those funds for the job they're doing) is basically forcing those laborers to put their money into the project without doing so themselves. They're in fact doing the opposite: lining their pockets with money which could instead be used for the particular project. Capitalists might say you have to offer higher salaries to attract great minds, but if they're just doing it for the money, are they any more passionate about the project than a "normal" laborer?

If the project requires skills that are in high demand, then there is probably more choice for the laborer. So being passionate or not becomes moot.

Very well put, Somatic.

I agree entirely; the crux of suffering in this world is inequality. If my memory serves me correctly, there have been extensive, global studies regarding this. Those countries/communities of the highest inequality suffer the highest amount of crime. Expectedly, the opposite is also true, those based upon equality have little, usually zero, crime. The graph was quite linear.

Inequality seems to draw the darkness out of man more so than anything else. It's the cause of much fear, jealousy and anger.

On a side note: Unity, I think you may have taken zen's point out of context (correct me if I am mistaken). Yes, every person has the ability to be creative/inventive. We're all equal in that regard. Some however, have experience in certain area's, such as propulsion or construction, that prove valuable in certain contexts. This does not meen they are more important than another, rather, they have specific skills to be harnessed. It is no more valuable than cleaning, growing, loving. Uniqueness is intrinsic to human life, it's through that that we learn from each other, be inspired by each other and form complimentary communities.

(08-18-2011, 01:12 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]There are examples of this type of model in action in America. They are in Michael Moore's Film Capitalism: A Love Story. I cannot remember the names or specifics of the companies, but one scene focused on the warehouse packaging plant. The warehouse workers made $60,000 a year, same as the warehouse manager, same as the CEO. The executive were humble, saying, "What do we need 20 cars for?" The other company was a little different, run sort of like a democracy. All business decisions were voted on by employees, and each employee in the company had an equal vote. You'd imagine it's much harder to cut someone's salary when they're sitting in the room watching you vote on it. Both companies, by the movie's depictions, were very well functioning with very happy employees. However, whenever referencing a Michael Moore film, it's important to point out the deceiving techniques he can use to portray his point. I thought the idea for the businesses were nice though.

Here is the model I came up with. I sought and sought for ways to earn money which require neither an employer nor an employee, nor any manner of deceptive marketing or advertising practices. I now have two such methods at my disposal. I charge what is considered to be fair, according to those in my fields.

One method is: consulting with people on health whose bodies have been largely wrecked by the health care system, and failure to assimilate scientific evidence which is contrary to mainstream thought.

Second method is: assisting natural products companies in looking for candidates for key positions. Fees are paid by the business looking for the search. Candidates pay nothing for placement services. So basically this helps people find jobs they like with companies that treat their employees with respect.

We are all slaves to the system. The best one can do at this nexus is to reduce the impact this may have on others.