This paper was just published, and has caused quite a ruckus- it's interesting that this study is coming out now, at this time. I think it is evidence of the increasing awareness of our interdependence and co-existence with all beings across the universe, and some humanistic concerns (distortions) being projected onto this paper.
Interestingly enough, there is talk of the "zoo hypothesis" that our planet is off-limits by ETI, and that they are waiting for a particular benchmark to come visit us. Essentially what Ra, and many other channeled sources have reported.
If anyone's interested in reading the full paper, pdf is on the right, free to download or read:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.4462
IMHO, I see this as another step in disclosure. There is ever increasing signs of contact occurring, and more people are open to this type of idea.
As our systems crumble, and natural disasters continue to permeate our daily lives- changing our structures of thoughts, habits and values...It very well fits with the idea that we are being prepared for ETI contact (The start of the Harvest, perhaps).
That is my personal distortion towards this particular study.
Thoughts?
(08-20-2011, 09:18 AM)SomaticDreams Wrote: [ -> ]Interestingly enough, there is talk of the "zoo hypothesis" that our planet is off-limits by ETI, and that they are waiting for a particular benchmark to come visit us.
How are these ideas different from 'The Day the Earth Stood Still', or the non-intervention 'Prime Directive'. Don't these questions naturally arise when people start considering cultural relativism and the disruptive impact one culture can have on another? Lot of ways to interpret lack of 'yellow-ray' interaction.
(08-20-2011, 11:05 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-20-2011, 09:18 AM)SomaticDreams Wrote: [ -> ]Interestingly enough, there is talk of the "zoo hypothesis" that our planet is off-limits by ETI, and that they are waiting for a particular benchmark to come visit us.
How are these ideas different from 'The Day the Earth Stood Still', or the non-intervention 'Prime Directive'. Don't these questions naturally arise when people start considering cultural relativism and the disruptive impact one culture can have on another? Lot of ways to interpret lack of 'yellow-ray' interaction.
There is no difference. I just think it's interesting that the scientific paradigm names such an idea the "Zoo Hypothesis", as if we are animals, not equal to the nature of ETI.
Indeed, yellow-ray interaction is abundant in this paper. I've only skimmed it, but it goes over the most obvious scenarios.
Most people's ideas of ETI, including these researchers, already exist in popular media. You simply can't reach beyond your current level of consciousness to an appreciable extent. Especially to come back and explain it in conventional context. Game over. "experience in fourth density is emphatically not the same as third-density experience."
(08-21-2011, 01:54 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Most people's ideas of ETI, including these researchers, already exist in popular media. You simply can't reach beyond your current level of consciousness to an appreciable extent. Especially to come back and explain it in conventional context. Game over. "experience in fourth density is emphatically not the same as third-density experience."
I'm not sure what exactly this thread is discussing....but.... are you suggesting fourth density and extra terrestrials are synonymous ?
(08-21-2011, 04:11 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ] (08-21-2011, 01:54 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Most people's ideas of ETI, including these researchers, already exist in popular media. You simply can't reach beyond your current level of consciousness to an appreciable extent. Especially to come back and explain it in conventional context. Game over. "experience in fourth density is emphatically not the same as third-density experience."
I'm not sure what exactly this thread is discussing....but.... are you suggesting fourth density and extra terrestrials are synonymous ?
This thread is just about this study and any thoughts on it. Zenmaster is saying that it's useless to utilize constructs from third density to explain fourth density. ETI would be 4D, in the context of this discussion (Zoo hypothesis), since they are able to materialize and dematerialize into our density. I would not say they are "synonymous".
Essentially zenmaster is saying this study is useless in terms of further understanding the LOO material or anything to do with ETI's (as most people have already exhausted 3d concepts about aliens when studying them).
I think it's still useful in terms of understanding what most people will think when there is a disclosure of aliens around the world, and then also how to become a 'beacon of light', being a wanderer... In Buddhism there is a concept of "skillful means", meaning you have to be skillful in order to explain the Dharma to each person. It's never the same. I think the same applies for the LOO material, understanding the 3d distortions of ETI's will help us only further serve as beacons of light, and therefore shed light upon ourselves and others.
Also 3d, I really enjoy your humor on this board. I get a kick out of all of your posts!
(08-22-2011, 06:28 PM)SomaticDreams Wrote: [ -> ]understanding the 3d distortions of ETI's will help us only further serve as beacons of light, and therefore shed light upon ourselves and others.
Understanding any distortion aids in the process of evolution. The most central and primary matter with regards to understanding here is the work involved in balancing our own distortions.
(08-21-2011, 04:11 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ] (08-21-2011, 01:54 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Most people's ideas of ETI, including these researchers, already exist in popular media. You simply can't reach beyond your current level of consciousness to an appreciable extent. Especially to come back and explain it in conventional context. Game over. "experience in fourth density is emphatically not the same as third-density experience."
I'm not sure what exactly this thread is discussing....but.... are you suggesting fourth density and extra terrestrials are synonymous ?
The majority of ETI contact has been 4D. It's their job.
(08-22-2011, 08:43 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Their job?
4D's contacts with 3D. To impart philosophy, to influence by providing information, basically to provide opportunity to polarize.
""Let us observe your second density. Many come more rapidly to third density than others not because of an innate efficiency of catalysis but because of unusual opportunities for investment. In just such a way those of fourth density may invest third..."
You mean like our ability to invest in our 2D pets draws them up into 3D? I've never really thought about that in a 4D sense.
I also never thought it was my job as a 3D to do that for 2D.
I think of it as more of a natural part of their growth process rather than a "job," possibly more a part of their growth process than investing in 2D pets is our's.
It is "teach/learning," and part of perfecting the density of universal love is to "learn a love that is different from their own," which I think is easily accomplished through observing and interacting with 3D societies.
(08-22-2011, 10:37 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]You mean like our ability to invest in our 2D pets draws them up into 3D? I've never really thought about that in a 4D sense.
I also never thought it was my job as a 3D to do that for 2D.
'job' meaning purpose with respect to 3D contact. 4D knows exactly what 3D faces with the veil and quite intentionally and consciously provides particular ideas as deemed appropriate. Can't think of everything ourselves, 3D calls and they support in their free-will respecting manner.
Ah. Yes they do.
... It brings back to mind that "free will" isn't a conscious choice but a mysterious spiritual inheritance.
(08-23-2011, 01:00 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Ah. Yes they do.
... It brings back to mind that "free will" isn't a conscious choice but a mysterious spiritual inheritance.
Exercising free will is necessarily always conscious choice. Consider the info as providing another 'opportunity' to exercise choice.
An analogy is 'healing'. The healer does not directly heal, but offers an opportunity for 'health' - another viable condition, which is then accepted or not.
Free will isn't really "free" in theory. It is more like a fancy term, or equivocation, for being able to apply will in any direction. The will does have limits, huge limits, dead ends in every direction.
(08-24-2011, 09:38 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Free will isn't really "free" in theory. It is more like a fancy term, or equivocation, for being able to apply will in any direction. The will does have limits, huge limits, dead ends in every direction.
If you ever had the time to write up your thoughts on the idea of free will in a topic I'd be incredibly interested to read them. It's not something I've pondered in the same way you have.
I'm not sure how deeply I could articulate it. ...
Isn't free will also the "Law of Confusion"?
(08-24-2011, 03:23 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure how deeply I could articulate it. ...
Where is telepathy when we need it.
Quote:Isn't free will also the "Law of Confusion"?
The Law of Confusion, to the best of my understanding, is a take on free will in a sense to not violate another's free will by teaching or showing them more than would allow them to make their own choices.
The Law to maintain Confusion and the Law to respect Free Will. Maintain ignorance in order to provide choice.
Okay. Why? For what purpose would a choice made from ignorance benefit anyone?
If Free Will is absolute and I existed as an entity, I would not choose to be subjected to the Law of Confusion; neither would I need to continue within subjection to the Law of Confusion.... I would simply Will my way out.
This is why I maintain that Free Will is a mysterious spiritual inheritance. IMO, it is a mind complex creation to label the nature of the spirit complex.
(08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]The Law to maintain Confusion and the Law to respect Free Will. Maintain ignorance in order to provide choice.
Okay. Why? For what purpose would a choice made from ignorance benefit anyone?
I believe to maintain the idea of equality, oneness, or unity throughout creation. Guiding someone completely and influencing their choices will inevitably make you seem like a leader, someone to be trusted over one's own intellect and intuition, inevitably worshiped in some fashion. This is not congruent with the STO path.
Also, removing the option of choice eliminates a big part of the experience of the Creator knowing itself. It defeats any unimagined possibilities and stunts the growth of creation. Allowing others to make their own decisions without influence allows for infinitely more possibilities.
Quote:If Free Will is absolute and I existed as an entity, I would not choose to be subjected to the Law of Confusion; neither would I need to continue within subjection to the Law of Confusion.... I would simply Will my way out.
This is why I maintain that Free Will is a mysterious spiritual inheritance. IMO, it is a mind complex creation to label the nature of the spirit complex.
My mind is having a tough time absorbing this. Is upholding the Law of Confusion where it is not desired considered an infringement of free will? Of course, saying that you wish to will your way out of the Law of Confusion is the same as saying you wish to will your way out of the Law of Free Will, and allowing another to take control of your will.
No, I don't consider free will to be free. I think it is a false label.
All I could think regarding your first point was "releasing all control to the Creator in faith is following an invisible leader and is the supposed premise of the STO path".
(08-24-2011, 09:38 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Free will isn't really "free" in theory. It is more like a fancy term, or equivocation, for being able to apply will in any direction. The will does have limits, huge limits, dead ends in every direction.
I realize it is rare to use the will in this manner, but it is possible. I'm not going to ask you to 'trust me', just thought I'd through it out there for future reference. It is possible to use free will and you will know it.
(08-24-2011, 03:23 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure how deeply I could articulate it. ...
Isn't free will also the "Law of Confusion"?
Law of confusion has to do with respecting free will. An example is our 'incarnational nexus' which is a portion of the creator - which is all there is. You infringe on that, break the so-called 'law of confusion', and you have deal with all of the consequences. The consequences are bound to each aspect of the creator that was the experience.
(08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]For what purpose would a choice made from ignorance benefit anyone?
That is how something new is created from the imagination. It benefits everyone by providing yet another opportunity to express themselves. There is nothing lost in the universe. You - your ideas - serve as a 'logos' for others. That is, what you have made has deterministic properties for others that are seeking in resonance (another word is 'love') with it.
(08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]This is why I maintain that Free Will is a mysterious spiritual inheritance. IMO, it is a mind complex creation to label the nature of the spirit complex.
The idea is that free will is always available - you are never 'compelled' or 'addicted' or 'enslaved' to some purpose that was not part of your journey in the first place. The idea is to find the path and use the desire and will to experience and promote consciousness as you envision. When you do this, the concept makes sense.
(08-24-2011, 08:32 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]For what purpose would a choice made from ignorance benefit anyone?
That is how something new is created from the imagination. It benefits everyone by providing yet another opportunity to express themselves. There is nothing lost in the universe. You - your ideas - serve as a 'logos' for others. That is, what you have made has deterministic properties for others that are seeking in resonance (another word is 'love') with it.
You give a clear, distinct definition of what we actually do here. These deterministic properties are the unseen 'floaty' realities of the spirit. The will is only something I decide to put internal focus on.
I tend to fall back on the "grand scheme of things" and seek "The Totality" correlations. Meaning, when I say "benefit anyone", I'm referring to benefitting the bubbly concept that I am an eternal soul here to progress via lessons. In that sense, my will would not choose this method, and if the veil is clouding my original choice (as some might say) then it strengthens my opinion that my will is not free.
(08-24-2011, 08:32 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]This is why I maintain that Free Will is a mysterious spiritual inheritance. IMO, it is a mind complex creation to label the nature of the spirit complex.
The idea is that free will is always available - you are never 'compelled' or 'addicted' or 'enslaved' to some purpose that was not part of your journey in the first place. The idea is to find the path and use the desire and will to experience and promote consciousness as you envision. When you do this, the concept makes sense.
Although, I am enslaved to this path. This consciousness is extremely limiting to what I would envision. The impression I get is not to use the desire and will as I choose, but, rather, use desire and will to manipulate my interpretation of the actual path I am bound to.
I think the concept makes sense, only, as I have described, it is not Free Will but Limited Ability.
(08-24-2011, 08:32 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]For what purpose would a choice made from ignorance benefit anyone?
That is how something new is created from the imagination. It benefits everyone by providing yet another opportunity to express themselves. There is nothing lost in the universe. You - your ideas - serve as a 'logos' for others. That is, what you have made has deterministic properties for others that are seeking in resonance (another word is 'love') with it.
In light of what I just said, I will try to apply my view to the above (IMO, accurate) depiction of our existence.
Through my 'limited abilities', I create something that feels 'special' to my position at 'now'. Because there are deterministic properties in everything we do, everyone has something new with which to extrapolate via their 'limited abilities' to find 'specialness' within them and their incomprehensible spiritual dynamic, or new determinism all around.
(08-24-2011, 09:16 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I tend to fall back on the "grand scheme of things" and seek "The Totality" correlations. Meaning, when I say "benefit anyone", I'm referring to benefitting the bubbly concept that I am an eternal soul here to progress via lessons. In that sense, my will would not choose this method, and if the veil is clouding my original choice (as some might say) then it strengthens my opinion that my will is not free.
We live in a circumstantial, incidental, separated reality. Our conceptualizations are affected by that modality. If instead of the ideas of eternal soul and lessons, we focus on right now and the feelings that relate any and all distortions from a periphery of wholeness, we see that which is actually important and directly pertinent to learning (which is a way to make the progress, via lessons, more conscious). This has to be allowed - which shouldn't be that difficult because it is 'you' that you are making space for. Ra likened it to courting the subconscious.
(08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Although, I am enslaved to this path. This consciousness is extremely limiting to what I would envision. The impression I get is not to use the desire and will as I choose, but, rather, use desire and will to manipulate my interpretation of the actual path I am bound to.
I think the concept makes sense, only, as I have described, it is not Free Will but Limited Ability.
You have a level of separation in operation there. As you become more 'honest', you actually will 'manipulate' according to your path. By manipulate, I mean create. And there is no interpretation on that path, there is just knowing. The processing of distortions will necessarily require discernment and interpretation, but the closer you are to your authentic desire, the more freedom and the less abstract or external things will be (and seem). 'Happening to you' starts becoming 'happening from you'. We create the limitations in order to reflect on that which has become separated.
"An entity incarnating upon the Earth plane becomes conscious of self at a varying point in its time/space progress through the continuum. This may have a median, shall we say, of approximately fifteen of your months. Some entities become conscious of self at a period closer to incarnation, some at a period farther from this event. In all cases responsibility becomes retroactive from that point backward in the continuum so that distortions are to be understood by the entity and dissolved as the entity learns."
"The conscious entity holds both and will turn itself one way or the other or, potentially, backwards and forwards, rocking first one way then the other and not achieving the transformation. In order for the Transformation of Mind to occur, one principle governing the use of the deep mind must be abandoned."
(08-24-2011, 10:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2011, 09:16 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I tend to fall back on the "grand scheme of things" and seek "The Totality" correlations. Meaning, when I say "benefit anyone", I'm referring to benefitting the bubbly concept that I am an eternal soul here to progress via lessons. In that sense, my will would not choose this method, and if the veil is clouding my original choice (as some might say) then it strengthens my opinion that my will is not free.
We live in a circumstantial, incidental, separated reality. Our conceptualizations are affected by that modality. If instead of the ideas of eternal soul and lessons, we focus on right now and the feelings that relate any and all distortions from a periphery of wholeness, we see that which is actually important and directly pertinent to learning (which is a way to make the progress, via lessons, more conscious). This has to be allowed - which shouldn't be that difficult because it is 'you' that you are making space for. Ra likened it to courting the subconscious.
I would not argue against the practical applications of our every day existence.
Regarding Free Will, it is the idea of withholding information that is bogus; a tell tale of deception; utter poppycock. It would be as ludicrous as me saying "I can't tell you who stole your car because I would be infringing on the Law of Confusion." No, it is obvious that I don't know who stole your car, and, trying to maintain a level of notoriety, I pretend I know or I have a deal with the thief.
You see? The 'Truth' is that the ego wasn't ready to face that part of itself. The 'honesty' wasn't there to allow the self an 'honest' answer, and the "Law of Free Will" was put in as a place holder.
So, yes, we should focus on honesty within the self as you kindly point out. I think this honesty begins with calling out that free will is a crutch and a band aid to avoid honesty. The idea of Free Will is an exercise in self delusion. And the irony is that if I could consciously delude myself into a chosen frame of mind, I would, but I can't because I do not have true control of programming my will or the freedom of an open standard biological system to apply it to.
(08-25-2011, 04:29 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]So, yes, we should focus on honesty within the self as you kindly point out. I think this honesty begins with calling out that free will is a crutch and a band aid to avoid honesty. The idea of Free Will is an exercise in self delusion. And the irony is that if I could consciously delude myself into a chosen frame of mind, I would, but I can't because I do not have true control of programming my will or the freedom of an open standard biological system to apply it to.
Consider that free will is also the application of honesty.
(08-25-2011, 08:20 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-25-2011, 04:29 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]So, yes, we should focus on honesty within the self as you kindly point out. I think this honesty begins with calling out that free will is a crutch and a band aid to avoid honesty. The idea of Free Will is an exercise in self delusion. And the irony is that if I could consciously delude myself into a chosen frame of mind, I would, but I can't because I do not have true control of programming my will or the freedom of an open standard biological system to apply it to.
Consider that free will is also the application of honesty.
...I....
....don't....know......what to say to that
Sometimes, zenmaster, you make honesty a complicated word
So, the Law of Free Will is
deceit...
(08-24-2011, 08:32 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2011, 03:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]For what purpose would a choice made from ignorance benefit anyone?
That is how something new is created from the imagination.
Creation seems to spring from the unknown, not knowing. Newness. Free will. Being.
Creating from foreknowledge is instead copying or repeating. Choice. Doing. (wash, rinse, repeat)
I think you have the free will to choose your response to the catalyst of life. 10,20..a hundred times a day. Day in day out. Its a choice that is at once black, white...or somewhere in the middle. Positve, negative, sto, sts...call it what you want. But that is where your free will lies.
But historically, humans have this penchant for turning words into methods of control.
Richard