Bring4th

(09-06-2011, 05:56 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]WOW, Icaro! Very intriguing analysis. I just spent the last 2 hours studying this thread, following every reference, looking up every quote, flipping back and forth between sessions, and my head is spinning!

Unity100: I understand your point about someone using this logic to selectively accept or ignore passages they like/don't like. Christians argue about this all the time: They cannot accept their entire book in its entirety because of all the contradictions, so they 'pick and choose' and then argue because they 'pick and choose' different scriptures than others do. They also argue about whether to take the Bible literally or not. And here we are, doing the same thing with the Law of One!

I don't think Ra intended for the material to be considered a literal, infallible 'Bible'.

For what it's worth, the Christians I know whom I consider to have deep understanding of higher truths, despite their book's obvious contradictions, are those who are able to bend their book into something congruent, rather than taking it literally. Deeper understanding doesn't happen by memorizing data, but by internalizing concepts.

Is our book really so different? We like to think it has less distortion than the religious book, because we know the religious book was tainted. And yet, we also know that negative greeting occurred during the transmission of our book.

Does this mean it's unreliable? No, not at all. Quite the contrary. It's reliable. Just not in the way we might have thought.

Supposedly, high school students are expected to memorize facts by rote, whereas college students are expected to think outside the box.

We are college students. The stakes have just been raised, thanks to Icaro's discoveries.

Thus, I think the process of pondering Icaro's theories may have great value. The tipping point for me was the part about Ra correcting an error that hadn't happened yet. That is mind-blowing!

As Christian pastors often say, "It must be taken in the proper context...1 scripture cannot be taken alone but must be considered with all the others."

I've often told my Christian friends that, contrary to what they've been taught, the Bible wasn't intended to be an authority, but the real test was for them to discern what was true and what was false in it. It's the process of discernment that triggers understanding, not the learning by rote. They think they're supposed to just believe it all, without any discrimination. But no, the real challenge is to discern which parts are truth and which are lies.

It is the same with the Law of One. Ra has given us a gift, that is far, far more powerful than we thought! We thought it was nearly 100% reliable at face value. But no, that would be too easy, and wouldn't stimulate much growth in us. If Icaro is correct, then what we have here is a challenge, a puzzle, and as we work to figure it out, using not only our intellect but our intuition, the potential for spiritual growth and understanding is far greater than if we just accepted it at face value.

As Icaro pointed out, there are many clues given. This is advanced stuff, way more than it appears on the surface.

I thought the Law of One was complex, like a chess game. But now, Icaro has helped me to realize that the Law of One is actually a multi-tiered chess game!

Icaro, THANK YOU!!! This is absolutely incredible! I feel a sense of excitement, as though discovering the Law of One for the very first time! I now feel a compulsion to begin studying it anew, looking not only for dry facts, but allegorical references, clues, puzzles, and other exciting things just waiting to be discovered! The Law of One has just come alive! I feel as though I was seeing in black-and-white before, and you just showed us that there's color! Seriously, it's that profound!

Not only that, but another, much more important concept has been introduced: Rather than denying that which is fact, we are given an opportunity to create a reality according to our resonance. I see how this looks like denial. But denial implies a set, fixed reality. I wouldn't want to live in such a reality as that. Rather, we live in a reality that is permeable, changeable, much like the holodeck on Star Trek, or the world in The Matrix. Some of us have seen the code.

I highly recommend, for anyone interested in understanding time and the present moment, The Education of Oversoul Seven Trilogy by Jane Roberts. It's the best explanation of time that I've ever read.

Again, Icaro, you've done a stupendous job! You've opened the door to much pondering. My head is still spinning!

i dont know what you are trying to express above.

this is not 'fallibility of the material'. it is hypocrisy in its grandest form.

the thing he bases all this stuff on is a quote about yahweh, and he shows his omission as 'negative influence affecting publishing of the material'. then he proceeds to invalidate the quotes he doesnt like with that.

what is self-betraying is that, when queried about moses and his doings, he instantly divines the purity of the questioner (as if everything is tied to questioner in a channeling work) and then says channel was not negatively influenced at that point.

but negative influence was effective about the very quote regarding yahweh he is basing his assumptions on !?!?!? the very assumption of negative influence is based on a quote about yahweh, but no other quote about yahweh or moses or jews are affected by negative influence ? why ? 'because the questioner was pure ENOUGH'.

that 'enough' there, evaluates to 'enough to invalidate only quotes i dont like'.

................

this is selective ignoring of the information. there is nothing else to it, and there is nothing commendable about it. if there wasnt hypocrisy, you could come up and say that this is the persons belief, or perspective. but, there is hypocritical application of the very base one puts his feet on too. when something like that is there, it turns to something that is akin to a priest back in middle ages preaching 'turn your other cheek' to the flock, but sending them to crusade to cut down 'infidels'. selective application of principles, nothing less.

with that, i can invalidate ANY quote in the material i dont like. all i need to do is to tell that the 'transitory' status of the question being asked is high enough. (totally, totally subjective measurement by the way). and if someone queries why another question of the SAME kind is not affected, i just say that the purity of the questioner was high enough at that point.

sorry, there is nothing that can be taken seriously here.

(09-06-2011, 10:04 AM)Edinburgh Wrote: [ -> ]Having said that, I do commend Icaro and Unity both for their ability to read so deeply from this text, both of you gentlemen have spent many valuable hours working on bringing insights to our attention. For this, I thank you both.

YES I second that! Both of them have offered deep insights which took my study of the Law of One to a new level.

(09-06-2011, 10:04 AM)Edinburgh Wrote: [ -> ]I do like the fact we can all talk here without breaking out into rudeness. It's a sign that the LOO is really working on bringing about our actualisation!

I do believe the harvest has started/ will start soon ... time itself is something that exists all at once ... so with that in mind - let's all guard our thoughts, be free of negativity, be loving and positive - to re-create ourselves every day with the end in mind - Whom We Wish To Be. This way, even if the harvest doesn't happen for another 50 years, or happens in 50 days, either way we'll be ready.

Agreed!

Unity, you have to understand that your psyche is reflecting the opposite of mine because we are coming into contact with each other. Everything you say about me, you are saying about yourself. Selective denial, unable to see with clarity etc.

Our disagreements are symbolic of unification, as Zenmaster said. It is a reconciliation of opposites.

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Thank you for the kind words Monica. The multi-tiered chess link was hilarious. I saved the link!

(09-05-2011, 10:46 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]Look at how much time and energy we have been putting into discussing the specificity of the words? Look at how much importance we are placing on select quotes, which in the end do nothing to progress our spirituality in the least? See how distracted we have allowed ourselves to become in placing importance on specific information?

actually what we are discussing here, is a storefront in front of something that is deeper.

everyone has a certain point at which where their 'spiritual seeking' stops in this society. for some, hypocrisy arrives when they are told that they may have to embrace the competing religion's member as a loved human being. for some, it arrives when they see they may have to become vegetarian. for some, it arrives when they glimpse that the lifelong political, religious or economic viewpoint they held may not be compatible with their declared path of seeking. for some, it arrives when they are told that the spiritual pursuit they were after, may suddenly impact their life in an all encompassing manner.

there have been a lot of discussions which demonstrated all of the above 'stopping points'. this, is the latest of these, and one of the most important. all of the other stuff, are stuff related to the person's own choices, perspectives that reside within himself/herself. subjective, not tied to time, and totally dependent on the person's decision. s/he may choose either way about these.

the latest case, the case of imminent impact in one's life, is disturbing in that it requires preparedness and dedication. preparedness of the adept, to be precise. the very thing that the initiation at the bottom room of the pyramids were based after. death and rebirth. which provides the entity with liberation from the attachments, and allows the entity to move through in seeking without being hindered by these. it is the very start of adept's work.

back in discussions long ago i brought this point up. and i mentioned that this was very important. and revisited it in various other discussions. now i see that this actually was the most important thing a seeker of spiritual information and advancement should have accomplished from the start.

without it, the attachments and fixations about what is actually transitory, keeps the entity from moving forward. s/he needs and finds SOME way to totally ignore, distort, or invalidate the information or lesson or whatever experience s/he is given. exactly similar to the mechanic that was at work when Ra expressed that entities of this sphere had seemingly accepted advanced spiritual information when given, but as soon as they were in their daily lives, they ignored them. i dont need to tell you that tho, you all know that this is a daily routine. people go to church, love each other, and start discriminating as soon as they are outside. everyday business.

here we see it in action when in a context of advanced information, and outside the socially-common biases.

here is the impending inevitable and unchangeable DIRECT effect of some grand spiritual event on the person's life. and the reaction is to first 'reinterpret' it, then to 'rewrite' it, then to 'metaphorize' it, then to outright refuse it, with a hypocritically applied proposition. the steps do not matter actually, in the end all it boils down to is the need to deny information that is uncomfortable for the psyche.

one cant advance spiritually with such a behavior. no - its not something that is vague or interpretable - one cant advance spiritually with this kind of behavior : there are endless pointers and direct q/as in the material we are studying, AND others that explicitly state the importance of this. but there is no point in bringing any of these since any of these can be selectively denied in the fashion i mentioned above. those who would want to examine these can just refer to the pyramid and initiation parts in the material.

so in that respect, this is an issue which reflects the importance of what we call 'initiation' when starting a spiritual journey. and it is a very fundamental and important aspect of a spiritual journey - it doesnt even start without it.

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(09-06-2011, 12:51 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Unity, you have to understand that your psyche is reflecting the opposite of mine because we are coming into contact with each other. Everything you say about me, you are saying about yourself. Selective denial, unable to see with clarity etc.

Our disagreements are symbolic of unification, as Zenmaster said.

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Thank you for the kind words Monica. The multi-tiered chess link was hilarious. I saved the link!

dont put me in the same basket with you. this would necessitate me going back and tracing your steps during this discussion - which is something you are not particularly fond of, as you have hinted in your p.m. you have gone over (as of now) approx 10 steps to totally ignore a piece of information to protect your perspective.

whereas on the other hand i have CHANGED my perspective when the information presented by tenet has showed that i was wrong in my assessment about harvest. i didnt go about hypocritically applying standards to selectively deny the information. leave aside going to the extent of claiming contamination.

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(09-06-2011, 12:42 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]YES I second that! Both of them have offered deep insights which took my study of the Law of One to a new level.

what new level you are talking about, really ? please elaborate.

in case you have not noticed, such selective claiming of negative influence can be used for ANY quote in the material. nothing barred. and the measure for its application is totally subjective.

(09-06-2011, 12:54 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]here is the impending inevitable and unchangeable DIRECT effect of some grand spiritual event on the person's life. and the reaction is to first 'reinterpret' it, then to 'rewrite' it, then to 'metaphorize' it, then to outright refuse it, with a hypocritically applied proposition. the steps do not matter actually, in the end all it boils down to is the need to deny information that is uncomfortable for the psyche.

one cant advance spiritually with such a behavior. no - its not something that is vague or interpretable - one cant advance spiritually with this kind of behavior : there are endless pointers and direct q/as in the material we are studying, AND others that explicitly state the importance of this. but there is no point in bringing any of these since any of these can be selectively denied in the fashion i mentioned above. those who would want to examine these can just refer to the pyramid and initiation parts in the material.

so in that respect, this is an issue which reflects the importance of what we call 'initiation' when starting a spiritual journey. and it is a very fundamental and important aspect of a spiritual journey - it doesnt even start without it.

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Your words are tripping me out dude. You are correct in terms of initiation.....

(09-06-2011, 01:15 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Your words are tripping me out dude. You are correct in terms of initiation.....

i dont understand this.

Quote:61.9 Questioner: This brings out the point of the purpose of the physical incarnation, I believe. And that is to reach a conviction through your own thought processes as to a solution to problems and understandings in a totally free situation with no proof at all or anything that you would consider proof, proof being a very poor word in itself. Can you expand on my concept?
Ra: I am Ra. Your opinion is an eloquent one although somewhat confused in its connections between the freedom expressed by subjective knowing and the freedom expressed by subjective acceptance. There is a significant distinction between the two.

This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other in-pourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third-density.

Unity100, you seem to be consistently championing "subjective knowing".

Icaro, you seem to be putting great effort into using details that subjective-knowing-persons employ in order to show them what "subjective acceptance" is all about.

I find it very difficult, myself, to consistently employ subjective acceptance because it requires such a release of "control". Yet, subjective acceptance, like Ra says, gives great freedom.

There is certainly a unification of opposites going on here, which can only be achieved through acceptance.

(09-06-2011, 01:55 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]There is certainly a unification of opposites going on here, which can only be achieved through acceptance.

you are still trying to push equal status for selectively denying information based on preference, and changing of perspective when the information trusted contradicts personal perspective.

they arent. one is just denial, the other is acceptance of uncomfortable information.

you, have called negative infiltration of the material you claimed the trust, exactly for the point you have problems with, when you saw that there was no way to go around that information.

expecting others to accept your mindset of hypocritical denial, is wrong. the only thing that can be accepted, can be a need to deny and understanding of that need.

this is probably the only occasion in which i am able to tell someone that s/he is incorrect, without me risking subjective bias in interpretation, or risking 'judgment' as american political correctness puts it.

i am able to say as such, because your approach contradicts itself. and hence it is contradicting itself, it cannot be correct. it can only be deemed viable when you admit that the proposal you are making - ie the negative influence based on 'transitory-ness' - is valid for EVERY quote that is not saying 'we are all one' in that material.

however you are not able to do that, because it basically would totally invalidate any point in discussing anything in that material, since any information that doesnt say 'we are one' can be claimed compromised.

(09-05-2011, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]I'm having a hard time with the idea that a negative entity took over the Ra contact during a session, for just a question or two. It's quite contrary to my understanding of how the contact worked.

Perhaps we aren't talking about an overt "takeover" as much as interference... perhaps some communication came through distorted, or that there was some communication that didn't come through at all.

In any case, we are left here with a response to a direct question about harvest being in 2011. As I have emphatically argued- it should be reasonably assumed that such a grave error in understanding on Don's part would have been corrected by Ra. Otherwise, we should assume that Don was correct in his framing of the query. The third option is as forwarded here by Icaro- that there was interference during the transmission. Are there other options that you see here that I am overlooking?

Also, I would be interested to hear in more detail- in terms of your understanding of the channeling process- why you feel so strongly that the contact could not have been corrupted. According to my own theoretical knowledge, and experience with such things, no form of protection is "foolproof".

(09-06-2011, 02:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]expecting others to accept your mindset of hypocritical denial, is wrong. the only thing that can be accepted, can be a need to deny and understanding of that need.

"your mindset of hypocritical denial" and "a need to deny and understanding of that need" sound to me like the same thing.

Maybe you are confused on how acceptance works (my hypocrisy is noted):

ACCEPT:

1 consent to receive
• agree to undertake
• give an affirmative answer to ; say yes to :
• receive as adequate, valid, or suitable :
• regard favorably or with approval; welcome :
• agree to meet (a draft or bill of exchange) by signing it.
• (of a thing) be designed to allow (something) to be inserted or applied :
2 believe or come to recognize (an opinion, explanation, etc.) as valid or correct :
• be prepared to subscribe to (a belief or philosophy) :
• take upon oneself (a responsibility or liability); acknowledge :
• tolerate or submit to (something unpleasant or undesired) :

(09-06-2011, 02:47 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-05-2011, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]I'm having a hard time with the idea that a negative entity took over the Ra contact during a session, for just a question or two. It's quite contrary to my understanding of how the contact worked.

Perhaps we aren't talking about an overt "takeover" as much as interference... perhaps some communication came through distorted, or that there was some communication that didn't come through at all.

what difference does it make. if you propose distortion of communication as such, you have to propose it for any kind of 'transitory' information. ranging from nazis to rasputin to atlantis to maldek destruction to anything else.

that basically would totally invalidate everything in the material except 'we are all one'. also totally invalidating any need to think on the quotes, any kind of discussion over them, any information that is the result of their conclusions. because any of them can be fake now.

Quote:In any case, we are left here with a response to a direct question about harvest being in 2011. As I have emphatically argued- it should be reasonably assumed that such a grave error in understanding on Don's part would have been corrected by Ra. Otherwise, we should assume that Don was correct in his framing of the query. The third option is as forwarded here by Icaro- that there was interference during the transmission. Are there other options that you see here that I am overlooking?

what you are overlooking, is one of the options you count is not an option at all. acceptance of that 'option' totally invalidates any information in this material.

Quote:Also, I would be interested to hear in more detail- in terms of your understanding of the channeling process- why you feel so strongly that the contact could not have been corrupted. According to my own theoretical knowledge, and experience with such things, no form of protection is "foolproof".

first, corruption of a contact does not 'just' happen. appropriate imbalances and distortions have to be present for corruption. and if they are there, they do not just get exploited for duration of two questions and answers. they remain there exploitable.

second, this channeling was done unconsciously, and in a manner that totally put the channeler out of its body. the channeler, was not present there. what was there was an entity named as Ra. you can see this as an entity incarnating into a 3d body without going through the veil.

don was not talking to an entity channeled by Carla. don was talking to Ra.

as you can see from various incidents like the 'tape incident' in which Ra had gone back in time in order to see what was wrong with the tape, the capacities of the entity Ra in that body remain the same as they are when they are in their original home environment - in regard to time/space.

therefore, a negative entity of a mere 5th order, 'corrupting' the Ra entity and causing it to give a negatively oriented or confused answer, is outright ridiculous. that would mean that Ra would be corruptible even in their home vibration, and even in their home state. when you propose or accept this nonsense, then you totally let go of any information given in the book. not only that, you also let go of the orders of progress in regard to this octave , from 5th to late 6th at least.

third, if a contact became corrupted, the original entity would not stay there continuing channeling. because then they would be aiding proliferation of negative information with their positive information. this is probably why there are continual affirmations and confirmations of group's purity and dedication of service by Ra in a repeated fashion. commending of purity of a compromised, corrupted group, would be outright stupid. if contact was compromised at that point, there would be an entity imitating Ra, and the information given would take on an increasingly corrupted form, continually concentrating on the 'transitory' information equating the given one and expanding on it incessantly. one look to other compromised channeled material is enough to see how it develops from its start to its late stages. such a format, is not present here. the contact is consistent from start to end, in tone, manner, information focused on, approach, and depth. it doesnt vary. note how i am saying 'contact' and not the 'channel'. for :

fourth, the proposition of corruption of Ra ENTITY (as Carla was not even there at that point in time) for just two quotes someone has problems with, is exactly what it seems - biased denial. there is no deeper meaning in that. especially when the proposition is refused to be held for any other quote, but that one-two that contradicts with the person's perspective. it is ridiculous that this is even being discussed here at this point.

I have much I'd like to say, but not much time at the moment. For now, this might help explain what I see as a breakthru by Icaro:

Karate Concepts: Enter form, exit form

(09-06-2011, 03:17 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I have much I'd like to say, but not much time at the moment. For now, this might help explain what I see as a breakthru by Icaro:
Karate Concepts: Enter form, exit form

i really would like see that breakthrough explained. what breakthrough ? calling selective corruption of the entity Ra based on personal preference ?

I wasn't speaking about accepting another's mindset. I was speaking of accepting someone on a personal level.

Maybe this is where you're not understanding me. Let me clarify..

The response from Ra in 17.29 about 2011 was not a total Orion take-over of the contact. An Orion answer would have been "Yes, that is correct." Ra, still having enough control of the session, was able to prevent that. Instead, the Orion entity was able to sufficiently contribute to a lack of clarity. I apologize for the misconceptions.Total take-over of a contact occurs gradually over time, and would require many sessions of detuning, and only after those seeking the information became involved in the details. There are other channels out there that are very involved in details. You can expect them to be unreliable, and they will only confuse your seeking. That is the agenda of negative entities. Because the group was harmonious in their intentions and genuinely sought to progress spiritually, this never occurred. It's only when your seeking becomes transient and interested in the details, that the Orion entities use this to cause confusion. Don asked transient questions, yes. But his seeking in asking those questions was genuine by trying to understand our spiritual history. Ra was able to work with this as best as they could to impart spiritual concepts, while the Orion entity tried to manipulate the contact. The only time that the Orion contact was successful, was the confusion over the 2011 date. Because the date carries with it fear, death, and not living in the present moment, the Orion entity is able to bend those distortions in their favor and strike more effectively.

As Ra says in 26.33.."We can only ask each group to consider the relative effect of philosophy and your so-called specific information. It is not the specificity of the information which attracts negative influences. It is the importance placed upon it." Historical information allows the contact to be preserved in a positive fashion, because historical facts don't allow us to be manipulated as much. Ra is able to impart spiritual concepts while explaining historical information, because through spiritual interpretation of history, the session with Ra is not turned over to Orion. Because 2011 involves prophecy type information (future scenarios), the Orion entity was able to be more effective because of the importance placed upon the date, and how others will interpret it incorrectly. It is an attempt to place others in fear and control, and to keep people from living in the present moment. This is how negative entities work.

Do you see how 2011 is a specific date? And how it is related to the future? This is how the Orion entity was able to manipulate the response from Ra enough.

And how all other dates are historical, and involve the past? The sessions that involved historical dates carried with them lack of clarity also..i.e. 'harvestable'.

All I ask Unity, is with this in mind, examine sessions 14, 16, 17, 18, and 24. They all involve errors.

Session 14 - Ra states in session 17 that they incorrectly communicated dates in session 14.

Session 16 - In the original publication, Ra's clarification of dates in session 17 also refer to session 16. This wasn't discovered until recently with the re-listening project.

Session 17 - Ra starts off by correcting dates in this session, and also urging Don to understand that they We have difficulty dealing with your time/space. There may again be errors of this type. In other words, they're telling Don that 2011 is a miscalculation. In this session, Ra blatantly miscalculates Jesus' home density of the time, which was fourth, but they said it was fifth. That is a blatant historical miscalculation, and it is because the Orion entity is attempting to interfere with the channel. Then of course

Session 18 - Again, more historical information and dates. In 18.26 Ra stumbles their words..Orion interference.

Session 24 - More history and dates congruent with the above sessions.

Now. Go back again and read the context of all those sessions. In each of them, Ra is discussing how Orion polluted the Confederation's message historically. Correct? Ra is both using the opportunity of Don's questions to answer about the 'past', while also using the opportunity to speak of how Orion is currently attempting to distort Ra's message now. Ra is speaking indirectly in historical terms. These are clues because Ra can't say it directly. They are using history to tell an allegory of what is going on now.

Session 14 - They speak of George who received mixed messages from both the Confederation and Orion. This session is also about past Confederation efforts that became distorted by Orion.

Session 16 - They use this session to talk about the quarantine and the window phenomenon, and how Orion is able to come through.

Session 17 - The session becomes detuned, and because 2011 is a future projection, the Orion entity takes advantage of this by making Ra sound unclear. Again, Ra warned they have trouble with our time/space before the session. They use the rest of the session to describe how the Orion entity discredited Ra. Ra is both taking about Jesus and how Orion went about discrediting him, and how Orion is attempting to discredit Ra now.

Session 18 - Ra speaks about psychic attack, and how in the previous session the contact was "spotty". A hint. Don starts asking about history, and Ra stumbles their words again, on a historical date. Ra speaks about the pollution of Yahweh's message, specifically saying in 18.24 that the reception of their information was mixed. Ra is talking about the past, and the contact now.

Session 24 - More history and dates about the pollution of the Confederation message. Out of nowhere, in 24.2, Ra gives a specifically precise date of 10, 821. How can they say they have difficulty with time/space measurements and then here, be specific down to the year. No, they are asking Don, and that that read this, how 2011 is wrong and was manipulated.

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Someone really needs to find the quote where Ra speaks of how a contact gradually, and without notice, is turned over to a negative entity over a period of time. It might be in the introduction of Book I. This is where the confusion is.

(09-06-2011, 03:20 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]I wasn't speaking about accepting another's mindset. I was speaking of accepting someone on a personal level.

your 'personal' comes with equating hypocritical selective denial of information. you need to separate the two.

Quote:The response from Ra in 17.29 about 2011 was not a total Orion take-over of the contact. An Orion answer would have been "Yes, that is correct." Ra, still having enough control of the session, was able to prevent that. Instead, the Orion entity was able to sufficiently contribute to a lack of clarity. I apologize for the misconceptions.

dont apologize for anything - for basically what you are writing above, is fiction. when speedily read, it comes out as a written story. 'it was not a total take over of the contact, because Ra still had ENOUGH control of the session' -> really ? how did you decide 'enough' ? and 'control of the session' -> you think something like 'control of the session' exists ? you are not aware that this is a channeling equal to an INCARNATION, in which the entity totally replaces the one in the body ? and when the smallest of problems ensues - as seen many times -, the contact has to be totally ceased ?

then you are proceeding to introduce 'sufficient lack of clarity' into the answer.

all in measures, none is measurable, none have any basis that can be applied to anything else. totally subjective.

in the end it again evolves to 'there being sufficient confusion as to invalidate the quotes i dont like, whereas not touching the rest'.

Quote:Total take-over of a contact occurs gradually over time, and would require many sessions of detuning, and only after those seeking the information became involved in the details. There are other channels out there that are very involved in details. You can expect them to be unreliable, and they will only confuse your seeking. That is the agenda of negative entities. Because the group was harmonious in their intentions and genuinely sought to progress spiritually, this never occurred. It's only when your seeking becomes transient and interested in the details, that the Orion entities use this to cause confusion. Don asked transient questions, yes. But his seeking in asking those questions was genuine by trying to understand our spiritual history. Ra was able to work with this as best as they could to impart spiritual concepts, while the Orion entity tried to manipulate the contact. The only time that the Orion contact was successful, was the confusion over the 2011 date. Because the date carries with it fear, death, and not living in the present moment, the Orion entity is able to bend those distortions in their favor and strike more effectively.

long story short group got detuned enough only to invalidate the question you have a problem with ....

excuse me but i cant take the above seriously and give a lengthy answer.

Quote:As Ra says in 26.33.."We can only ask each group to consider the relative effect of philosophy and your so-called specific information. It is not the specificity of the information which attracts negative influences. It is the importance placed upon it." Historical information allows the contact to be preserved in a positive fashion, because historical facts don't allow us to be manipulated as much. Ra is able to impart spiritual concepts while explaining historical information, because through spiritual interpretation of history, the session with Ra is not turned over to Orion. Because 2011 involves prophecy type information (future scenarios), the Orion entity was able to be more effective because of the importance placed upon the date, and how others will interpret it incorrectly. It is an attempt to place others in fear and control, and to keep people from living in the present moment. This is how negative entities work.

Do you see how 2011 is a specific date? And how it is related to the future? This is how the Orion entity was able to manipulate the response from Ra enough.

And how all other dates are historical, and involve the past? The sessions that involved historical dates carried with them lack of clarity also..i.e. 'harvestable'.

this is becoming tiring. you arent even aware that the q/a you bring as an alibi, actually CONTRADICTS your proposal.

ra says IMPORTANCE placed on SPECIFIC information attracts negative influences.

they dont say 'DATES REGARDING FUTURE EVENTS'.

moses being called from an ufo is a specific information, and its extremely important as far as the social mind of this planet is concerned. rasputin is another specific information. maldek being destroyed, another specific information.

there being no need for using devices like the device don asked as to the usefulness of, is something not only SPECIFIC, but also regarding future.

all of these would be compromised with your promise.

i would like to reiterate the quote you are incorrectly basing your assumptions on :

Quote:We can only ask each group to consider the relative effect of philosophy and your so-called specific information. It is not the specificity of the information which attracts negative influences. It is the importance placed upon it

pay attention to how it says importance placed on specific information. it doesnt say 'dates' or it doesnt say 'dates regarding future.

Quote:Session 14 - Ra states in session 17 that they incorrectly communicated dates in session 14.

and Ra corrected it.

Quote:Session 16 - In the original publication, Ra's clarification of dates in session 17 also refer to session 16. This wasn't discovered until recently with the re-listening project.

again, ra corrected it.

Quote:Session 17 - Ra starts off by correcting dates in this session, and also urging Don to understand that they We have difficulty dealing with your time/space. There may again be errors of this type. In other words, they're telling Don that 2011 is a miscalculation. In this session, Ra blatantly miscalculates Jesus' home density of the time, which was fourth, but they said it was fifth. That is a blatant historical miscalculation, and it is because the Orion entity is attempting to interfere with the channel. Then of course

are you aware that Ra corrected it ?

Quote:Session 18 - Again, more historical information and dates. In 18.26 Ra stumbles their words..Orion interference.

they corrected it.

Quote:Session 24 - More history and dates congruent with the above sessions.

they correct them later.

Quote:Now. Go back again and read the context of all those sessions. In each of them, Ra is discussing how Orion polluted the Confederation's message historically. Correct? Ra is both using the opportunity of Don's questions to answer about the 'past', while also using the opportunity to speak of how Orion is currently attempting to distort Ra's message now. Ra is speaking indirectly in historical terms. These are clues because Ra can't say it directly. They are using history to tell an allegory of what is going on now.
Session 14 - They speak of George who received mixed messages from both the Confederation and Orion. This session is also about past Confederation efforts that became distorted by Orion.

now, go back again and read those sessions. in any kind of such mistake happening, ra corrects them. and Ra, at NO point tells that the mistakes were due to orion interference - this is what you have made up.

ra explicitly stated that they have problems in estimating our space/time due to dimensional differences, and EVERY TIME IT HAPPENED THEY CORRECTED IT.

Quote:Session 16 - They use this session to talk about the quarantine and the window phenomenon, and how Orion is able to come through.

this doesnt even have relevance to anything you are trying to argue for.

Quote:Session 17 - The session becomes detuned, and because 2011 is a future projection, the Orion entity takes advantage of this by making Ra sound unclear. Again, Ra warned they have trouble with our time/space before the session. They use the rest of the session to describe how the Orion entity discredited Ra. Ra is both taking about Jesus and how Orion went about discrediting him, and how Orion is attempting to discredit Ra now.

and you are totally writing off some context again. nothing you wrote have any basis on which we can put our feet on soundly. these are just your projections. 'and then the harbingers came from the left field, using the opening the defenders neglected, equating the score to 1-0'. it may as well be narrative of a sports match. there is nothing we can soundly use or take seriously - just your thoughts on how something you can not at all assess or know, happened, in your own subjective story.

Quote:Session 18 - Ra speaks about psychic attack, and how in the previous session the contact was "spotty". A hint. Don starts asking about history, and Ra stumbles their words again, on a historical date. Ra speaks about the pollution of Yahweh's message, specifically saying in 18.24 that the reception of their information was mixed. Ra is talking about the past, and the contact now.

ra corrected every time a communication mistake occurred. and, no, ra wasnt talking about how their contact NOW was 'mixed'. you have just made it up right now, because there is no justification or rationale shown for it. all you are doing is saying how past messages of past NON INCARNATIVE channelings were mixed, and trying to carry it off to a channeling which is equal to an entity physically landing on this planet. not to mention that all the other 'messages' you speak of, were stuff that the 'prophets' of old times had concluded in their dreams, psyches, thoughts - nothing the kind of channeling that you have around nowadays.

Quote:Session 24 - More history and dates about the pollution of the Confederation message. Out of nowhere, in 24.2, Ra gives a specifically precise date of 10, 821. How can they say they have difficulty with time/space measurements and then here, be specific down to the year. No, they are asking Don, and that that read this, how 2011 is wrong and was manipulated.

Someone really needs to find the quote where Ra speaks of how a contact gradually, and without notice, is turned over to a negative entity over a period of time. It might be in the introduction of Book I. This is where the confusion is.

let me wrap it up :

you are arguing that the incarnative channeling so perilously done now, is compromised, because all the abrahamic 'prophets' of old who saw stuff in their dreams and interpreted them, were distorted.

this is wrong. there is no basis on discussing it.


...........................


in ALL cases at which there was a problem with communication, RA CORRECTED THEIR MESSAGE, even if it needed revisiting of sessions before.

again, i am repeating, in order to emphasize :

there has never been any miscommunication that has not been corrected by Ra.

for Ra not to be able to go back and correct the 2011 date you are having problems with, ra should not be able to do it, because the contact should have been usurped.

and the 'error' you are talking about publication of the material, is an error with publication of the material. it is not something that is due to Ra, or an error made by Ra. you cannot use it to conclude any kind of incorrectness of the information we know to be in the material.

................

all in all, we still made some progress. at least, you are not arguing that the 'compromise' ONLY affected the quote you have problem with the 2011 date. now you expanded the corruption to anything that includes 'future dates'. of course, you have done that wrongly, by confusing 'importance placed on specific information' as 'importance placed on specific future dates'. but i think we can fix that too.

(09-06-2011, 02:47 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]In any case, we are left here with a response to a direct question about harvest being in 2011. As I have emphatically argued- it should be reasonably assumed that such a grave error in understanding on Don's part would have been corrected by Ra. Otherwise, we should assume that Don was correct in his framing of the query. The third option is as forwarded here by Icaro- that there was interference during the transmission. Are there other options that you see here that I am overlooking?

One possibility (not sure if this is one of your three) is that harvest will be in 2011. Another possibility would be that Ra was wrong, that harvest won't be in 2011. Another possibility could be that Ra was right in 1981 but that the timeline has shifted and harvest won't actually be in 2011. I don't see the need to invoke a negative entity to corrupt that answer. As unity100 points out, that approach can be used to invalidate any answer.

(09-06-2011, 02:47 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I would be interested to hear in more detail- in terms of your understanding of the channeling process- why you feel so strongly that the contact could not have been corrupted. According to my own theoretical knowledge, and experience with such things, no form of protection is "foolproof".

This was trance channeling with rigorous protection. Carla left her body and Ra used it. A couple of times Ra asked that the circle of light be rewalked and the breath of righteousness expelled to drive away negative thoughtforms. Other times, as unity100 has pointed out, Ra corrected mistakes they had made. In session 17 Ra did neither of those things. I feel confident that if the session had been infringed upon, Ra would have alerted L/L. If we say session 17 was corrupted aren't we, by implication, impugning all the remaining sessions, given that Ra never gave any indications that there had been problems in session 17?

(09-06-2011, 03:13 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]second, this channeling was done unconsciously, and in a manner that totally put the channeler out of its body. the channeler, was not present there. what was there was an entity named as Ra. you can see this as an entity incarnating into a 3d body without going through the veil.

This is your bias and your belief. This is your subjective knowing without proof. This is your poor friend.



"This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other in-pourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third-density."

And then...what if Ra was just kidding?

There is nothing that validates anything that Ra has ever said other than the fact that we "like" some of what Ra has imparted. Technically, its just Ra's opinion.

And our decision (or choice, if you will) of what to take to heart...or not.

Richard

(09-06-2011, 05:30 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]And then...what if Ra was just kidding?

There is nothing that validates anything that Ra has ever said other than the fact that we "like" some of what Ra has imparted. Technically, its just Ra's opinion.

And our decision (or choice, if you will) of what to take to heart...or not.

Richard

the problem here is not about what someone likes, or what is Ra's opinion. the problem here is, basically invalidating everything starting from session 17 because someone didnt like something that was in that session.

(09-06-2011, 05:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-06-2011, 05:30 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]And then...what if Ra was just kidding?

There is nothing that validates anything that Ra has ever said other than the fact that we "like" some of what Ra has imparted. Technically, its just Ra's opinion.

And our decision (or choice, if you will) of what to take to heart...or not.

Richard

the problem here is not about what someone likes, or what is Ra's opinion. the problem here is, basically invalidating everything starting from session 17 because someone didnt like something that was in that session.

Quite simply, IF YOU took the following quote as "valid", none of this would be a "problem" for you....

Quote:61.9 Questioner: This brings out the point of the purpose of the physical incarnation, I believe. And that is to reach a conviction through your own thought processes as to a solution to problems and understandings in a totally free situation with no proof at all or anything that you would consider proof, proof being a very poor word in itself. Can you expand on my concept?
Ra: I am Ra. Your opinion is an eloquent one although somewhat confused in its connections between the freedom expressed by subjective knowing and the freedom expressed by subjective acceptance. There is a significant distinction between the two.

This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other in-pourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third-density

(09-06-2011, 03:13 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]what difference does it make.

It makes the same difference as between receiving a garbled message in a voicemail box, and receiving another message entirely due to the lines being crossed. I am drawing from personal experience here. There was a time where there were about 6 - 8 people in a room together. I was one of them, and another was an experienced trance channel, although she was not in trance at the time. What happened was an entity simultaneously broadcasted a brief message into each of our minds, and we compared notes. Point is, they did not all match up exactly. A few were exceedingly close. A couple sort of in the ball park. And a couple who claimed they "felt something" but did not get a specific message.

unity100 Wrote:if you propose distortion of communication as such, you have to propose it for any kind of 'transitory' information. ranging from nazis to rasputin to atlantis to maldek destruction to anything else.

I concur. Therefore, if the hypothesis proposed here is true, that forces us to accept something that might be difficult to swallow. That would be the possibility that the Ra material is, in any way, "better" or "more special" than any other body of channeled material out there. I admit, this would be difficult for me to accept. However, you and I both have been arguing that people need to be willing to accept things that are uncomfortable for them in order to grow. So maybe this is that thing, for us.

unity100 Wrote:that basically would totally invalidate everything in the material except 'we are all one'.

Not necessarily, if some additional principle could be discerned by which to more accurately ascertain each statement's validity.

For example, one could create a body of fundamental statements based from the material that have 100% coherence, and use that as a "yardstick" for evaluation of more convoluted statements.

In addition, I have for some time been attempting to draw more attention to the "garbage in / garbage out" aspect of channeling with respect to the query structure. These comments have been largely downplayed, ignored, or attacked by many other forum members. Including at one point you, yourself, seemed pretty annoyed that I kept pushing the issue on multiple threads.

Bottom line is, I believe there is an entire science which could be made out of how to construct a query in order to maximize the value of the reply. So this in my mind continues to be a pink elephant in the room, no matter what conclusions are being drawn about harvest.

unity100 Wrote:also totally invalidating any need to think on the quotes, any kind of discussion over them, any information that is the result of their conclusions. because any of them can be fake now.

Well, no not necessarily. Although I do acknowledge the possibility and most certainly see why this whole thing can be extremely frustrating. But it does also hint at a different "level" of information that has not been actively pursued, as I referred to above. This is "meta" information. Information about the process of channeling itself, how it works, and how to make it more effective. This is immensely more valuable than whether or not Rasputin graduated, for example.

Whether harvest is tomorrow, thirty years ago, or 300 years from now, we are still talking about conscious contact with intelligent infinity. This is essentially like having your own personal Ra. Again, this gets back to my own personal experiences where I used to attend weekly trance channeling sessions involving groups of about 20 - 30 attendees. Every week, a message was given on some topic, and then it was opened up to queries from the audience. Unfortunately, these people had little idea how to properly query an oracle. It was obvious to me that they did not understand that their specific choice of words was limiting the information which could be communicated to them, such as to respect free will. Do you see what I am getting at here?

unity100 Wrote:what you are overlooking, is one of the options you count is not an option at all. acceptance of that 'option' totally invalidates any information in this material.

Assuming you are correct, we are still left with:

Ra Wrote:The harvest is now.

Can you offer a way to account for this which is coherent with your views? If so, I think that would be very helpful for this thread.

As much as it still kind of pains me,

Ra Wrote:This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration.

is in the same "Plain As Day" category in my mind. And for now I am not ready to give that one up. We still have a fairly large misconception going on about 3D earth "becoming" 4D earth to address. Again, whether or not the hypothesis forwarded here is true, we still have to contend with the idea that sooner or later, one generation is going to be the "last" generation, with all the attendant absurdities of a falling population along the way.

unity100 Wrote:first, corruption of a contact does not 'just' happen. appropriate imbalances and distortions have to be present for corruption. and if they are there, they do not just get exploited for duration of two questions and answers. they remain there exploitable.

I am not really arguing with you, but I will observe that there is no basis for these statements within the Ra material. This is "meta" information about the process of channeling itself. The only two quotes which bear on this were offered by zenmaster earlier, but hardly constitute a conclusive discourse on channeling.

unity100 Wrote:second, this channeling was done unconsciously, and in a manner that totally put the channeler out of its body. the channeler, was not present there. what was there was an entity named as Ra.

Sorry, but again I personally know a trance channeler, and she would not describe it as such. So, either your characterization is incorrect, or it is a purely subjective experience in which case this is just another thing that is pointless to debate.

(09-06-2011, 06:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]I concur. Therefore, if the hypothesis proposed here is true, that forces us to accept something that might be difficult to swallow. That would be the possibility that the Ra material is, in any way, "better" or "more special" than any other body of channeled material out there. I admit, this would be difficult for me to accept. However, you and I both have been arguing that people need to be willing to accept things that are uncomfortable for them in order to grow. So maybe this is that thing, for us.

that would only be true and valid if the proposition that was put forth did not contradict itself, and was true. it does. as you know from the threads in which i had to switch my perspective regarding sudden/lengthy harvest, i have no qualms in changing my perspective with sufficient and valid information, in an instant.

'ra is compromised because i dont like q/a 17.29' is not in my list that includes sufficient and valid information. it is beyond waste that we are even discussing the personal bias of someone which strongly requires s/he deny a particular uncomfortable info. the only good outcome from this has been the reemphasis of the importance of initiation and disattachment to passing earthly stuff.

your assessments regarding harvest date and duration were sound and solid.

Quote:

unity100 Wrote:that basically would totally invalidate everything in the material except 'we are all one'.

Not necessarily, if some additional principle could be discerned by which to more accurately ascertain each statement's validity.

For example, one could create a body of fundamental statements based from the material that have 100% coherence, and use that as a "yardstick" for evaluation of more convoluted statements.

no you cannot do that - you can see that in the earlier phases of this thread, when attempted, it came out in the form of instantly divining the purity of the questioner and the measure of negative influence.

there is no way that you can do these measurements, so that you could be able to measure the 'level of negative influence' with it.

Quote:In addition, I have for some time been attempting to draw more attention to the "garbage in / garbage out" aspect of channeling with respect to the query structure. These comments have been largely downplayed, ignored, or attacked by many other forum members. Including at one point you, yourself, seemed pretty annoyed that I kept pushing the issue on multiple threads. Bottom line is, I believe there is an entire science which could be made out of how to construct a query in order to maximize the value of the reply . So this in my mind continues to be a pink elephant in the room, no matter what conclusions are being drawn about harvest.

i am at a loss as to how you are labeling this as channeling. this is not conscious or semi conscious channeling. this is basically one entity technically dying, leaving the body, and another walking in, without being subject to veil. it is no different than an alien basically landing in your backyard.

that aside, you lost me about the structure of queries, pink elephant, and my annoyance with you pushing something. if you recite a few lines from those threads, i will elaborate.

Quote:

unity100 Wrote:also totally invalidating any need to think on the quotes, any kind of discussion over them, any information that is the result of their conclusions. because any of them can be fake now.

Well, no not necessarily. Although I do acknowledge the possibility and most certainly see why this whole thing can be extremely frustrating. But it does also hint at a different "level" of information that has not been actively pursued, as I referred to above. This is "meta" information. Information about the process of channeling itself, how it words, and how to make it more effective. This is immensely more valuable than whether or not Rasputin graduated, for example.

no - necessarily. you are still missing fundamental fact here :

the measurement of 'contamination' of the channel, is totally based on one's own desire. there is no way you could measure the purity of the questioner, ra, and the scribe. i am leaving out the channel, as you can see, for she was not there in that body.

in regard to 'meta information', 'effectiveness of words' and such - excuse me but there is not that much complication in this.

see, here ?

you are asking me a question. i am answering your question. i am still an entity that is attached to a body that is made of physical material, whereas i am still actually in time/space with mind/spirit. yet you are taking my replies literally, not talking about garbage in garbage out, or contamination, level of information and so on.

it is not any different with the process you are talking about in this contact - there are 3 entities participating - a questioner, ra, and a scribe. it is no different than 3 people talking in a room, and when you ask a question and get an answer from your friend, you taking it literally as answered.

Quote:Whether harvest is tomorrow, thirty years ago, or 300 years from now, we are still talking about conscious contact with intelligent infinity. This is essentially like having your own personal Ra. Again, this gets back to my own personal experiences where I used to attend weekly trance channeling sessions involving groups of about 20 - 30 attendees. Every week, a message was given on some topic, and then it was opened up to queries from the audience. Unfortunately, these people had little idea how to properly query an oracle. It was obvious to me that they did not understand that their specific choice of words was limiting the information which could be communicated to them, such as to respect free will. Do you see what I am getting at here?

i see what you are trying to get at, and yet you seem to be continuing in the wrong footing from the start. as i said - conscious, semi conscious channeling, trance and this kind of thing cannot be compared.

if you and i were to meet in person, you would ask my name, and you would take my name to be what i replied you. you wouldnt suspect negative interference, you wouldnt reinterpret what i said, you wouldnt suspect the structure of your query.

excuse me but i dont even know what we are discussing here. it seems that people are trying to force themselves to introduce doubt into simple, blatant, direct, questions. it really has gone out of the roof.

there is no such doubt any more than one wants and needs doubt on that level.

Quote:

unity100 Wrote:what you are overlooking, is one of the options you count is not an option at all. acceptance of that 'option' totally invalidates any information in this material.

Assuming you are correct, we are still left with

Ra Wrote:The harvest is now.

Can you offer a way to account for this which is coherent with your views? If so, I think that would be very helpful for this thread.

'is now' is a phrase that is used as 'imminent' in english literature and language.

if harvest was really 'then', the correct wordage and termage would take the form of 'harvest is happening as of now'.

again, why we are even revisiting this ? just because someone had opened 3 threads in quick succession in order to confirm a strong bias s/he needed defended, and eventually ending up claiming total invalidation of Ra (rather unknowingly though, he just wanted to invalidate one or two q/as) ?

we already discussed MANY more than the quote you have revisited here in the first 2 threads.

Quote:

Ra Wrote:This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration.

is in the same "Plain As Day" category in my mind. And for now I am not ready to give that one up. We still have a fairly large misconception going on about 3D earth "becoming" 4D earth to address. Again, whether or not the hypothesis forwarded here is true, we still have to contend with the idea that sooner or later, one generation is going to be the "last" generation, with all the attendant absurdities of a falling population.

address what ?

harvest != movement into 4d vibrations. how many times we have discussed this ? what is the problem at that point even ?

Quote:I am not really arguing with you, but I will observe that there is no basis for these statements within the Ra material. This is "meta" information about the process of channeling itself.

yes. however this doesnt allow entities to call bullshit on what they do not like selectively, going through extreme versions of that kind of nonsense themselves.

if you trust reliability of information, you trust it. if you dont, you dont. you cannot selectively trust information in places you dont like, and revert back later.

even if it took the form of saying 'ra was wrong', it would be acceptable. however it isnt like that.

Quote:

unity100 Wrote:second, this channeling was done unconsciously, and in a manner that totally put the channeler out of its body. the channeler, was not present there. what was there was an entity named as Ra.

Sorry, but again I personally know a trance channeler, and she would not describe it as such. So, either your characterization is incorrect, or it is a purely subjective experience in which case this is just another thing that is pointless to debate.

notice - i didnt say trance channeling. for, this is not trance channeling. the method used in this contact was elaborated in the material. you will see that it is a very peculiar practice. and actually this was the reason for a lot of the troubles and dangers surrounding this contact.

if it was a common practice, it would be not only much easier for Ra to find a group, but also information similar to Ra material would be transmitted by other parties - ra is not the only 6d entity that is involved with this sphere at this moment you know. one can say that the involvement of the south american group is much heavier than Ra.

what I find most interesting about this topic is that from Ra's perspective time does not exist like it does for us in 3d. Not only are all questions and answers simultanious, so is Ra's contact with the Egyptians, and so forth. Mind blowing.

(09-06-2011, 08:39 PM)seejay21 Wrote: [ -> ]what I find most interesting about this topic is that from Ra's perspective time does not exist like it does for us in 3d. Not only are all questions and answers simultanious, so is Ra's contact with the Egyptians, and so forth. Mind blowing.

that assumption would be wrong because it assumes that time/space and space/time are perfectly 1:1 distributed in late 6d. that is not the case.

actually, when you die and are reviewing your incarnation, you also get access to all your past lives, and future lives, right from your vantage point. however, what you see is time/space heavy. because there is abundance of time in time/space with low limitation. in space/time, it is to the contrary.

true simultaneity can only be claimed in points nearing intelligent infinity.

Ra said they were not part of time and were able to be with us in any of our (3D) times.

When you die it does not make sense to have access to future life experience outside of what you've already made conscious in the course of evolution, you'd have access to prior experience. The veil limits access to that which you have made conscious up to that point of spiritual evolution. You build upon, heal, forgive, and balance the biases from past work in consciousness. What you can see of the 'future' in time/space is based on what has been made conscious so far, and this perception is used as a means to determine what would be an appropriate incarnation.

(09-06-2011, 10:14 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said they were not part of time and were able to be with us in any of our (3D) times.

even though not a part of time as we know it, they are still on a continuum which moves towards 7d. true timelessness does not come before 7d, as far as we know. in that way there can be progress from start of 6d towards end of 6d -> otherwise the higher self phenomenon would not need to manifest towards mid-6d, but could manifest at any point. this means, there is a sequence in 6d still.

what is the point ? the Ra which contacted egyptians, is Ra at the point which they actually did it - at whatever point in their 6d that was.

and the current Ra, which states that they are not 'that naive' anymore, is a 'later' ra, which is more wise in their ways. they may not be a part of time, however as you can see, they have a continuum. at this point, they can be with a 3d nexus in all its times. this however, does not make them the Ra which contacted egypt. because if so, they wouldnt be 'that naive' at that point as they claim to be later.

Quote:When you die it does not make sense to have access to future life experience outside of what you've already made conscious in the course of evolution, you'd have access to prior experience. The veil limits access to that which you have made conscious up to that point of spiritual evolution. You build upon, heal, forgive, and balance the biases from past work in consciousness. What you can see of the 'future' in time/space is based on what has been made conscious so far, and this perception is used as a means to determine what would be an appropriate incarnation.

what you have access to is regulated by your mind/body/spirit complex totality actually. not even higher self. as you can see from the channelings of edgar cayce, and what Ra said about some information being 'closely guarded' by the totality of an entity that was queried about.

if, an entity would be able to see and handle something from its future and it would be beneficial to its progress and congruent with the path it had followed from its start in this octave and the path it wants to follow into its future, there doesnt seem to be a problem of letting that information be known from the totality's side.

just like how edgar cayce looked into the future of this planet - while in incarnation by the way, not even dead.

(09-06-2011, 10:33 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-06-2011, 10:14 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said they were not part of time and were able to be with us in any of our (3D) times.

even though not a part of time as we know it, they are still on a continuum which moves towards 7d. true timelessness does not come before 7d, as far as we know. in that way there can be progress from start of 6d towards end of 6d -> otherwise the higher self phenomenon would not need to manifest towards mid-6d, but could manifest at any point. this means, there is a sequence in 6d still.

what is the point ? the Ra which contacted egyptians, is Ra at the point which they actually did it - at whatever point in their 6d that was.

and the current Ra, which states that they are not 'that naive' anymore, is a 'later' Ra, which is more wise in their ways. they may not be a part of time, however as you can see, they have a continuum. at this point, they can be with a 3d nexus in all its times. this however, does not make them the Ra which contacted egypt. because if so, they wouldnt be 'that naive' at that point as they claim to be later.

Was addressing seejay's observation - not on 'timelessness' or 1:1 time/space space/time, but on the access Ra has to our time/space history which is something they know, with regards to their participation, anyway.

(09-06-2011, 10:33 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:When you die it does not make sense to have access to future life experience outside of what you've already made conscious in the course of evolution, you'd have access to prior experience. The veil limits access to that which you have made conscious up to that point of spiritual evolution. You build upon, heal, forgive, and balance the biases from past work in consciousness. What you can see of the 'future' in time/space is based on what has been made conscious so far, and this perception is used as a means to determine what would be an appropriate incarnation.

what you have access to is regulated by your mind/body/spirit complex totality actually. not even higher self. as you can see from the channelings of edgar cayce, and what Ra said about some information being 'closely guarded' by the totality of an entity that was queried about.

if, an entity would be able to see and handle something from its future and it would be beneficial to its progress and congruent with the path it had followed from its start in this octave and the path it wants to follow into its future, there doesnt seem to be a problem of letting that information be known from the totality's side.

just like how edgar cayce looked into the future of this planet - while in incarnation by the way, not even dead.

Cayce was accessing the akashic records, the 'racial mind' which is also limited by what had been made conscious by the earth+inhabitant sub-logos system, up to that point. My understanding is that anyone can do this with blue-ray or higher activated, although the form of access will be different for each person.

What the entity sees from its future is what has been made conscious of the logos, up to that point in evolution. Consciousness does bring together past and future, and one may resonate with some theme that may be part of a future life, but I don't see any kind of equal grounding between informative overview in that new experience vs that which is available from prior experience. Evolution of m/b/s follows from experience, and that experience informs perception. For 3D native, that's a yellow-ray time/space vibration with the corresponding limitations on perception and understanding.

There is a non-hampered view from the current experience. There is the aid of the 'higher self' - one's 'totality' which suggests balance, but the bias on how to achieve that balance comes from the current outlook. The more one makes conscious, the more that one has to work with - 'probability vortices' become practical guides at some point during 3rd density, even to the point of seeing actions and consequences, and the 3rd density entity can choose appropriate further working.

The only way any of this will move forward is if we establish a base on how the pureness of the information itself affects the channel. There is unwillingness to accept that the channeling was anything less than flawless.

How information can affect the channel has been said in many ways by using Ra's own words, so I suppose there's nothing else to be said.

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(09-06-2011, 03:17 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I have much I'd like to say, but not much time at the moment. For now, this might help explain what I see as a breakthru by Icaro:

Karate Concepts: Enter form, exit form

Lol your video choices are hilarious. I certainly went through that process. hiiiiiiiiiii-ya!

I maintain that I'm not the first person to make this realization though.

(09-06-2011, 11:33 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]The only way any of this will move forward is if we establish a base on how the pureness of the information itself affects the channel. There is unwillingness to accept that the channeling was anything less than flawless.

How information can affect the channel has been said in many ways by using Ra's own words, so I suppose there's nothing else to be said.

there is your unwillingness to accept that what you propose will totally invalidate any/all information after the session 17.29 question which is what you trying to totally go around. and there is no way around that.

leaving aside your lack of information and insight regarding what you are talking about - there is no channel here - there is an an entity named Ra, which totally took over a body of an incarnated entity, as if they were that entity itself. it is no different than you talking to your roommate or your brother. that is also an entity which has taken over a body. we are referring to it as 'channeling' rather ambiguously. not because it is something like someone passing out half-way and some random entity speaking by contacting someone's unconscious mind and using its throat and lips. the body of the entity is entirely taken over up to the point of the entity walking in being able to control the bodily parts. the owner of the body, is not there - it is said that the entity is with Ra at that point - which is also why she increasingly starts taking on the vibratory color of that environment.

moreover, they proceed on to say that if the entity chose to allow a walk-in, they could totally replace the entity in that body, act like that entity, and even shoulder completion of the entity's karmic model. which goes beyond taking over a body.

from this point on, you can argue that the negative entity got ahold of Ra, the very social memory complex in 6d using that body for that very quote you dislike, and then continually controlled Ra in order to prevent them from correcting the date you claim to be given through negative influence, but allow them to give all other info. which would of course, be ridiculous since it would be totally stupid for a negative entity to let go of something that it has gotten control of by not increasing its control.

so basically, what you propose would totally invalidate anything starting from 17.29.

if, this contact was a regular kind of channeling in which the entity was conscious or semi conscious, or, this was a form of channeling in which the entity is totally unconscious, but in its own body, the propositions you bring forth could have been true. it is not one of them, since you are not seeing random mumbo jumbo you cant understand, or incoherent mumblings that seep through with the information being relayed in occasion, or regressions or anything of the sort. it is basically an entity in a body, like you, talking and responding to someone else without going through the veil.

or you can go on to claim that the negative entity was somehow was able to influence the social memory complex Ra. which would invalidate everything in the material, not limited to things starting from 17.29.

however i see that you are STILL insisting in trying to find a way to invalidate the quote you dont like. in this topic you have attempted to call a negative influence, which didnt work out to what you desired in the end. it seems that you are trying to keep reason, and trust in the material you are studying, but still find a way to invalidate the quote you dont like.

why dont you just come up and say 'ra was wrong'. it is much easier. and it could even be true.

...............

actually it can be said that a 6d entity practically incarnating in a body with the exception of replacing the silver cord, therefore totally circumventing the veil would constitute a grand breach of the veil. however this is a different topic in itself, which could be very fruitful contrary to what you have been putting us through 3 separate topics.

(09-06-2011, 11:15 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Cayce was accessing the akashic records, the 'racial mind' which is also limited by what had been made conscious by the earth+inhabitant sub-logos system, up to that point. My understanding is that anyone can do this with blue-ray or higher activated, although the form of access will be different for each person.

akhasic records is not racial mind. racial mind does not reside in 7th density. ra told that cayce was reaching to the totality of the planet in future.

and :

Quote:There is a non-hampered view from the current experience. There is the aid of the 'higher self' - one's 'totality' which suggests balance, but the bias on how to achieve that balance comes from the current outlook. The more one makes conscious, the more that one has to work with - 'probability vortices' become practical guides at some point during 3rd density, even to the point of seeing actions and consequences, and the 3rd density entity can choose appropriate further working.

the totality is the guardian of that information, actually any kind of information that can be accessed.