Bring4th

(09-08-2011, 11:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2011, 11:38 PM)Raman Wrote: [ -> ]It seems there is a quantum shift. Otherwise it does not make sense why there are 3d/4d dual activated that have to die according to 3d necessities. It has to be that once harvest phenomenon occurs the 3d 'area' dies per 3d neccesitiy and the 4d (now activated) body is able to keep going. Otherwise it just makes no sense having dual activated ones and then just die like a regular 3d. this means that indeed 3d goes away and 4d is activated.

Harvest is what provided the vibrations required to make use of the local space/time green-ray environment in the first place. As more 4D material is available, more will be usable to make bodies. Probably will take a few hundred years. Harvest has nothing to do with 3D death, or with full 4D activation, of course.

No according to the evidence found in the Ra material. And now with the discovery that the 6d group visiting south america was much more successful x2.

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(09-09-2011, 12:20 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 12:13 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 12:07 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]harvest providing the vibrations required for using green ray environment is not based on anything.

Incorrect. You are ignoring that the 3D graduate gets harvested to a 4D vibration. That is the essence that attracts the 4D material.

incorrect your incorrect - the planet moved into 4d vibrations in 1937, and it was true color green a long time ago before 3-4d entities started incarnating.

Does not provide the vibrations but potentiates 3d and activates 4d for all purposes. This is <not> a characteristic of harvest but the end of 3d cycle that coincides (obviously) with great final harvest.

(09-08-2011, 01:20 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]This is what my opinion has evolved into. Don must have been receiving temptation and manipulation before the sessions, and this is what Ra was referring to allegorically within the sessions themselves, and also how the group's sessions will be taken out of context in the future (our conversations now).

Yes, this continues to make sense to me.

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Also what about this. I just found this in my review of Book 4. Which, by the way, I am already feeling a little dragged down by the material here. I will just take this to be a manifestation of my "bias" and push through.

But anyway I knew that I had a link created in my mind from somewhere. I just couldn't exactly place it. So in that sense I am already glad I went back to Book 4.

First, recall my previous quote and comment:

Quote:

Quote:Questioner: Was the original problem with the kidneys some 25 years ago caused by psychic attack?

Ra: I am Ra. This is only partially correct. There were psychic attack components to the death of this body at that space/time. However, the guiding vibratory complex in this event was the will of the instrument. This instrument desired to leave this plane of existence as it did not feel it could be of service.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:So... why was Carla being attacked way back in 1956, before the Ra contact had ever even been conceived? The attack seems to have been made with specific foreknowledge to the situation that would unfold in 1981, as documented here.

Now here we are in Session 77 (10 Feb 1982), and Ra confirms that Carla was just previously under attack. This is also the session where Ra states that the only way to fully disengage the negative entity is to cease the contact with Ra. Ra also takes the opportunity offered by Don to call Carla out a little bit on having failed to take their advice fully to the heart.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. All was done well with one exception. The instrument was instructed to spend space/time contemplating its self as the Creator. This, done in a more determined fashion, would be beneficial at times when the mind complex is weakened by severe assaults upon the distortions of the body complex towards pain. There is no necessity for negative thoughtforms regardless of pain distortions. The elimination of such creates the lack of possibility for negative elementals and other negative entities to use these thought-forms to create the worsening of the mind complex deviation from the normal distortions of cheerfulness/anxiety.

In this case, Ra chose to emphasize perception of self as creator over creator as self. Just making a mental note of that for myself, and wonder if Carla would benefit from a reminder of this every now and again.

Next is this anomalous query:

Quote:Questioner: The instrument would also like to know if what we call tuning could be improved during times when we do not communicate with Ra?

Ra: I am Ra. That which has been stated in regard to the latter question will suffice to point the way for the present query.

Don is referring to improve the tuning... and Ra says... what? This is exactly where my brain farts in the beginning of Book 4. So whatever was going on there... is affecting my tuning in this moment. I think this is what Icaro is getting at.

Next up we see where the group actually thought they were under attack, but were entirely incorrect. They also give two names of supplements and state that they find themselves very close to the boundary of the Law of Confusion.

So here also is an example of transitory information in the beginning of Book 4, as I previously referred to along with great shock and amazement from some others. But then, hidden in the "junk" of the transitory response is what I was looking for! So it is all part of the process.

Ra Wrote:However, this particular physical vehicle has, for approximately twenty-five of your years, been vital due to the spirit, the mind, and the will being harmoniously dedicated to fulfilling the service it chose to offer.

Again we have twenty five years. Ra says that Carla made a choice to offer a service, and was harmoniously dedicated to it... twenty five years ago. Ra also says that the kidney incident, twenty-five years prior, was in part due to psychic attack.

This is the link between the kidney incident and Carla later channeling Ra. Perhaps I misinterpreted it, but I didn't pull it out of nowhere. I understand this to mean that Carla had already made the Choice at the time of the psychic attack 25 years prior.

Next up... finally Don wants to get back to the philosophical part of the material and here is what Ra says:

Ra Wrote:I am Ra. We cannot reply due to a needed portion of your query which has been omitted; that is, do we speak of this particular Logos?

What? What does Ra mean that a portion of the query has been omitted?

I'm sorry, this may not all be "convincing" but there is more than just coincidence or wishful thinking or projecting internal bias going on here. Icaro has proposed a hypothesis, and I have gone back and found evidence both in - and outside - of the material to support the hypothesis. I pulled an archived 1981 news article about solar flares out of my behind, for Ra's sake!

I am pretty sure we all agree that Ra was not replaced by a negative entity, and that the material is coherent enough to provide a very high degree of reliability. So let's put that aside and move forward from here.

A case has been built for global instant death, but I just don't think that's how it's gonna happen. Not because I fear death - I've faced death before and didn't fear it - but because - I admit it! - I love this planet, I love this life, and I love people. I see such a huge wave of inspiration and activism happening...people really waking up and working together to heal the Earth...I just can't believe all of that would be for naught. What would be the point of that? just when humans are just beginning to finally 'get it right' then it's too little too late?

And then, when everyone dies, the harvested souls just magically poof into the 4D sphere? By what mechanism? Or, all the Wanderers die, and all the STS harvestable entities die, and all those sitting on the fence die, leaving only the harvestable, to stay here in the already-4D sphere...well that doesn't fit what Ra said about the 3D body dying.

So that leaves only the 3D-4D activated entities, who were already harvested...everyone else gone? What about all those Wanderers who have been meticulously preparing for this very event, by conditioning themselves via diet and lifestyle? There's a huge number of these people, who have a very strong vision of the future - a future that's peaceful and harmonious...these people have a vision that inspires their very being...some of them have sacrificed a great deal to turn that vision into reality...many of them are teaching others, and working together to create a New Earth. All for naught?

Sure, we might just be justifying our distaste for that 'inconvenient' statement by Ra. Or...it could just as easily be the opposite: those who interpret Ra's words to indicate death for all Wanderers might prefer that, to the difficult task that lies ahead. It will be hard work, fixing this mess and healing this planet. It doesn't make sense to me that all the Wanderers would just up and leave, right when the serious work starts and the newly-harvested entities could use a bit of guidance about how to live green, reconcile their differences without killing one another, etc.

Somehow I don't think us Wanderers are going to be let off the hook quite so easily. We still have work to do.

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(09-08-2011, 09:16 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]just by being incarnated, a wanderer becomes basically a channel for energies of its own social memory complex, and vibration. this process is impeded by veil and reduced remembrance of the wanderer when in a 3d body. wanderers who can pierce this veil, can get in touch with their sources and increase the flow. so, it is basically tied to the capacity of the wanderer to pierce the veil.

however, when planet is fully aligned to 4d vibrations, it would become much easier for wanderers to pierce through the veil through their mind/spirit. a higher vibration is not only something they are desiring and craving for, but also something they remember. a 4d entity would not have the same drive to tune with 4d vibrations as much as a wanderer, despite s/he is of harvested status. wanderer is basically a high density entity which does not at all like the vibration vicinity of late 3d, leave aside 3d. it would desire to move to any more comfortable vibration it could find.

and when they tune with that energy, they will inevitably start piercing the veil even though in a 3d body, and they will inevitably be radiating the vibrations of their home social memory complex. this is not something optional or conscious. any entity is a reflector for the source it vibrates and draws energy from. a 'vibration' is not just some energy vibrating in some frequency - it also carries any kind of characteristic the resulting mind/spirit collective developed up till that point.

so you basically suddenly have a lot of entities which are radiating the vibrations of their home densities along with their understanding.

in short, they will collectively be imprinting their vibration and whatever understanding and inclinations that come with their vibration (not of the density only, but also their own social memory complex flavor) onto the newly budding 4d society.

So...? How is that unacceptable? There's no veil anymore, so why hide anything?

(09-08-2011, 09:16 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]without having been called by 4d entities. without there being any options to accept or reject or offset.

How do you know they haven't been called? Maybe the newly harvested entities have called and do want some assistance. After all, they have quite a mess to clean up.

(09-08-2011, 09:16 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]so the new 4d planetary entity will be born by being heavily imprinted upon. this is not something that is acceptable per the principle of free will.

Not from behind the veil...but with no more veil, free will won't be infringed upon.

(09-08-2011, 09:16 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]it is not possible to defend against free will principle by proposing that these wanderers were called to this 3d planet to help either - 3d planet is no longer a 3d planet. and they were not called by 4d entities.

And you know this...how?

(09-08-2011, 09:16 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]you seemed to be trying to weed out if there were any ways to leave the density without going through anything resembling the process of death as known here.

And why not? Some of use have kids, families, friends...Of course the idea of widespread, certain death in the next few months is distasteful. Why wouldn't it be? There's nothing to be ashamed of here. It doesn't mean we fear death, or don't have enough 'faith' or whatever...it just means we like our lives. And anyway, who will take care of our dogs and cats??

It could just as easily be argued that building a case for widespread death, might be a reflection of a desire to leave, or an unwillingness to face some difficult tasks that may still lie ahead.

It could work both ways.

(09-08-2011, 09:16 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]wanderers being dual activated is not a possibility, since dual activated body already allows remembrance of 4d characteristics by newly harvested 4d entities as stated in the material. this would basically entail to a easy and fast piercing of the veil for wanderers even from the start.

Dual-activated refers to those entities born that way. But many Wanderers, and even some harvestable 3D's, might be becoming dual-activated, by mutating their 3D bodies via diet, lifestyle, etc. There is much to suggest that this is indeed happening.

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(09-09-2011, 01:00 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]What? What does Ra mean that a portion of the query has been omitted?

I don't get what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting that Ra knew what had been omitted...or...what?

(09-09-2011, 01:00 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2011, 01:20 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]This is what my opinion has evolved into. Don must have been receiving temptation and manipulation before the sessions, and this is what Ra was referring to allegorically within the sessions themselves, and also how the group's sessions will be taken out of context in the future (our conversations now).

Yes, this continues to make sense to me.

yes. that must be it ! ra must be allegorically referring to don's subconscious ................. and this is why they gave a direct answer of 2011 to a direct question asked by don ...

this stepped outside the bounds of simple logic at this moment. nomatter how your friend's subconscious is affected, when he asks a question and you directly answer it, you directly answer to a question your friend asked. an answer responding with a a name to question 'what is your name' level, cannot be 'allegorically referring to subconscious manipulations of .............'.

don asked the date of harvest, ra said 2011, even if don was totally out of his mind at that point, ra was not.

(09-09-2011, 01:35 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]A case has been built for global instant death, but I just don't think that's how it's gonna happen. Not because I fear death - I've faced death before and didn't fear it - but because - I admit it! - I love this planet, I love this life, and I love people. I see such a huge wave of inspiration and activism happening...people really waking up and working together to heal the Earth...I just can't believe all of that would be for naught. What would be the point of that? just when humans are just beginning to finally 'get it right' then it's too little too late?

not to be harbinger of cold hard truth, but that awakening, 'people getting it' etc are happening in your circles. there are 7 billion on this planet, and what you speak of isnt even a minority among those. the reason is simple - souls do not just instantly leap in progress because higher vibrations are available. they will live what they will live in their due time.

as for 'its too little too late' -> yes, it is too little. but, it is not late. the minority you see 'awakening' (what kind of awakening that one is actually questionable) are 'awakening' because its their time on their spiritual path at this point, if they are awakening. the masses who are not awakening are not awakening because its not their time yet, and no amount of others awakening or propaganda or channeling or teaching or energies or vibrations will make them awaken before their time.

so, there is no lateness here. the entities which will awaken were probably already meant for this planet or wanderers. in the case of latter, they have their own social memory complex, their own densities, and their awakening here during harvest, actually is not relevant to planet's own - even if it ramps up the average 'awakening' level for a time, the planet will revert to its normal natural 4d self with the 4d entities that came here for 4d eventually. and the 3d entities NEED 3d environment and experiences, and they will go to a proper 3d planet.

there is nothing little or late about that. it is a simple process as much as the rays of the sun dropping on the face of the planet heats it and provides energies for life.

everything would be so much easy if it was otherwise. you would just plug in wanderers and sufficient number of 4d harvested entities to a planet during harvest time, and you would 'awaken' them.

Quote:And then, when everyone dies, the harvested souls just magically poof into the 4D sphere? By what mechanism? Or, all the Wanderers die, and all the STS harvestable entities die, and all those sitting on the fence die, leaving only the harvestable, to stay here in the already-4D sphere...well that doesn't fit what Ra said about the 3D body dying.

firstly, not having an explanation for a potential eventuality does not affect what reliable information we have. we cannot twist the information we have, to fit missing information or our expectations.

and your latter scenario actually may end up true, and it does not at all contradict with what Ra said aboud 3-4d bodies having to die. these bodies are able to live in 4d environment already. and, as of the necessities of 3-4d body, they will still die. it doesnt matter whether they live in a 3d environment and die, or, live in an environment vacated by 3d entities, but in 4d vibrations. they will still die. just like how 4d bodies will also eventually die when they evolve. (30,000 years per incarnation if i remember right, on average).

logically we dont have an explanation yet for what could happen post harvest. what we have, is what information we have. we cant change it to fit what we dont have. post-harvest, anything could happen.

Quote:So that leaves only the 3D-4D activated entities, who were already harvested...everyone else gone? What about all those Wanderers who have been meticulously preparing for this very event, by conditioning themselves via diet and lifestyle? There's a huge number of these people, who have a very strong vision of the future - a future that's peaceful and harmonious...these people have a vision that inspires their very being...some of them have sacrificed a great deal to turn that vision into reality...many of them are teaching others, and working together to create a New Earth. All for naught?

wanderers were here for helping harvest and 3d entities. if they got mixed in the sentiment of the times and started dieting, this that in order to be able to live in 4d environment, it is their own responsibility. whatever mechanic governs harvest and post harvest, will act in the way it was created to act. it wont change because some entities incarnated into the planet got caught up in the heat of the moment.

and, if there is a huge number of these people, who have a very strong vision of the future - a future that's peaceful and harmonious, its NOT this planet's future. its their vision. they cannot imprint or infringe it upon the planet. the planet should move along with the visions and aims of the entities which are incarnating here for its 4d, as per rules of free will. a newly 4d planet is not a playground for wanderers to trifle with. it is also an entity.

Quote:Sure, we might just be justifying our distaste for that 'inconvenient' statement by Ra. Or...it could just as easily be the opposite: those who interpret Ra's words to indicate death for all Wanderers might prefer that, to the difficult task that lies ahead. It will be hard work, fixing this mess and healing this planet. It doesn't make sense to me that all the Wanderers would just up and leave, right when the serious work starts and the newly-harvested entities could use a bit of guidance about how to live green, reconcile their differences without killing one another, etc.

healing the planet is the task of whichever entities that broke other planets. if some wanderers come and heal this planet in their frenzy, those other entities will need to offset their karma elsewhere. that will require another broken planet to be healed.

Quote:Somehow I don't think us Wanderers are going to be let off the hook quite so easily. We still have work to do.

and why shouldnt they be ? are they any lesser in rights and importance than 3d entities, for whom all this effort is being spent ? of course, if they barge in and take over others' cosmic karma, they wouldnt be let off the hook.

Quote:So...? How is that unacceptable? There's no veil anymore, so why hide anything?

please reread what you have not read :

Quote:just by being incarnated, a wanderer becomes basically a channel for energies of its own social memory complex, and vibration. this process is impeded by veil and reduced remembrance of the wanderer when in a 3d body. wanderers who can pierce this veil, can get in touch with their sources and increase the flow. so, it is basically tied to the capacity of the wanderer to pierce the veil.

however, when planet is fully aligned to 4d vibrations, it would become much easier for wanderers to pierce through the veil through their mind/spirit. a higher vibration is not only something they are desiring and craving for, but also something they remember. a 4d entity would not have the same drive to tune with 4d vibrations as much as a wanderer, despite s/he is of harvested status. wanderer is basically a high density entity which does not at all like the vibration vicinity of late 3d, leave aside 3d. it would desire to move to any more comfortable vibration it could find.

and when they tune with that energy, they will inevitably start piercing the veil even though in a 3d body, and they will inevitably be radiating the vibrations of their home social memory complex. this is not something optional or conscious. any entity is a reflector for the source it vibrates and draws energy from. a 'vibration' is not just some energy vibrating in some frequency - it also carries any kind of characteristic the resulting mind/spirit collective developed up till that point.

so you basically suddenly have a lot of entities which are radiating the vibrations of their home densities along with their understanding.

in short, they will collectively be imprinting their vibration and whatever understanding and inclinations that come with their vibration (not of the density only, but also their own social memory complex flavor) onto the newly budding 4d society.

there being no veil does not mean you can radiate your 6d vibrations to a 4d planet without being explicitly called.

Quote:How do you know they haven't been called? Maybe the newly harvested entities have called and do want some assistance. After all, they have quite a mess to clean up.

if they call anyone, that would be after the 4d society starts to form. and whomever called, would come through normal proper means that were depicted in subjects related to sleep, learning from disincarnate teachers and so on in 4d talk in the material.

you cant just drop in in 3d end, and then claim that you have been called - the ones calling you and allowed your incarnation were not 4d entities - they were 3d entities. and when they are gone, the call numbers go away.

Quote:Not from behind the veil...but with no more veil, free will won't be infringed upon.

really ? then why is there a call mechanism after 3d and entities do not go without being called ?

Quote:And you know this...how?

aaah. the call mechanism explained in the book ? that is valid for 4d, 5d, and on still ?

Quote:And why not? Some of use have kids, families, friends...Of course the idea of widespread, certain death in the next few months is distasteful. Why wouldn't it be? There's nothing to be ashamed of here. It doesn't mean we fear death, or don't have enough 'faith' or whatever...it just means we like our lives. And anyway, who will take care of our dogs and cats??

It could just as easily be argued that building a case for widespread death, might be a reflection of a desire to leave, or an unwillingness to face some difficult tasks that may still lie ahead.

It could work both ways.

yes, it could work both ways, but it shouldnt cloud judgment and attempt twisting of the information one has, or, heaven forbid, trying to 'reinterpret' and twist basic important spiritual principles like free will to fit one's own biases.

mass death is not necessary for a wanderer which wants to leave. contacting infinite intelligence gives the entity the right to choose time of leaving at any given moment regardless of anything. so, those who contacted intelligent infinity up till this moment, and contacts it from this moment on at any time, will be able to leave this planet, as per the material we study is telling us.

a major desire for desiring a mass death scenario, could be the desire to see entities that are suffering freed from their unnecessary suffering however. this planet has a lot of imbalances and quirks that make proper 3d experience near impossibility, as evidenced by the harvest numbers and potentials complained by confederation. so, there is no need to have entities live through this inefficiency and make them suffer. proper placement in a proper 3d planet would be much more comfortable for a 3d entity and make it not only spiritually satisfied, but also willing to actually manifest and progress.

Quote:Dual-activated refers to those entities born that way. But many Wanderers, and even some harvestable 3D's, might be becoming dual-activated, by mutating their 3D bodies via diet, lifestyle, etc. There is much to suggest that this is indeed happening.

no such possibility was mentioned in the material. so it is an outside observation. it cannot be concluded for sure or relied upon.

(09-09-2011, 01:00 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Now here we are in Session 77 (10 Feb 1982), and Ra confirms that Carla was just previously under attack.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BQw...1982&hl=en

This article says:

Quote:U.S. scientists routinely surveying the sun have sighted a giant, pinwheel-shaped sunspot, the first time a phemonenon has been seen in visible light, the U.S. National Science Foundation announced.

The foundation said astronomers at its Kitt Peak National Observatory in Arizona first saw the unprecedented sunspot of Feb. 19 and that it held its unusual shape for several days.

"I have been observing for over 30 years and I've never seen anything like this before,' said Dr. William Livingston, a Kitt Peak astronomer. "It was a real curiosity, a rare thing."

This is not as precise of a date match, but it does place anomalous solar activity in the vicinity of Session 77. I am not fully aware of the exact state of technology at that time, but perhaps it was going on unnoticed for a few days prior to the discovery.

... and this "casually" turned up on the search:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=t24...1982&hl=en

Somewhat tangential but very interesting about a March 1982 unusual planetary alignment, that was predicted to cause the "Big One" in California. I seem to have some vague memory of this actually.. I would have been kindergarten. Surely, this had been in L/Ls minds. Indeed, in Session One, we have "tell us about the earth changes". Apparently this prediction traces back to a 1973 book entitled The Jupiter Effect, written by two scientists.

So the story goes... one of the authors had made an attempt at a redaction, yet it was too late. It had already gripped the group mind. Of course, the prediction never came true. The scientists had a heyday with this, and we are still reeling from the fallout of the backlash against the idea that movements of celestial bodies could induce catastrophic effects upon the earth's surface, thirty years later.

The above statement is both literally and metaphorically true.

What we have here is yet another example of the recurring theme of sensitive information being put out, later redacted, and then having the redaction used by a third party as a tool for manipulation through confusion.

Hello? Archetype folk? Am I the only one noticing a theme here? Is this not the fundamental theme expressed by Ra themselves about the nature of their contact with earth humans?

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(09-09-2011, 01:35 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 01:00 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]What? What does Ra mean that a portion of the query has been omitted?

I don't get what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting that Ra knew what had been omitted...or...what?

I am suggesting that:

A. This specific query/response initiates a distinct "brain fart" effect in my mind every time it passes over this part of the material. Which is curious because not only is this kind of interference that Icaro was proposing, but according to unity100's assessment, I myself was unwittingly making false conclusions based on information I had failed to assimilate from Book 4, due to said brain fart interference.

B. I still don't know what the hell this response from Ra means, and am hoping somebody else does know.

(09-09-2011, 02:22 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Hello? Archetype folk? Am I the only one noticing a theme here? Is this not the fundamental theme expressed by Ra themselves about the nature of their contact with earth humans?

there isnt any theme there. any kind of effect on the planet, or planet's magnetic fields' effect itself, or any kind of environmental change of any kind (including electromagnetic interference) can trigger issues if an entity's body complex is susceptible. moreover, the effect triggered may not need to be a problem either. for example, in the rather disturbing parts of mayan nights in the past few months, i was feeling much safer and was in better shape when a pressure on the magnetic field due to solar flares or cmes or whatnot was present. and comparably, i was feeling much more energetic and alive when similar kind of pressure was present in mayan day times. only, when the pressure got to extremes (goes to white range in the jp govt's simulator) i found out that it was a bit too much pressure.

as for the books etc you have brought regarding disasters etc, there is no way in hell that you can use such scattered stuff as solid footing to make conclusions. any number of situations and circumstances can cause such coincidences. only, if coincidences were shown to be the rule with few exceptions, you could start working on some connection.

Quote:Which is curious because not only is this kind of interference that Icaro was proposing, but according to unity100's assessment, I myself was unwittingly making false conclusions based on information I had failed to assimilate from Book 4, due to said brain fart interference.

yes. and that bit is important. you had had expressed that you had experience with negative entities before. however, from the extent you have gone in these conclusions regarding negative attacks and influence possibilities, you have made it clear that there is a lot you have missing from book 4. and it is important. for example, with your recent information, you could be led to think by a negative entity that it was able to go back and forth and change situations in past or future, making you susceptible to being impressed to suspecting or getting estranged from a lot of things and concepts thinking that they could be negatively planted. or, you could just transfer more power to that entity by believing that it was of capacity that could change past and future, inflating its persona, ending in a net result of increase in power of the entity. there are endless possibilities.

you didnt know how a thought form could compare to just thought for example. or, at this point i bet that you dont know, or didnt pay attention to the information that basically says lower astral planes on this planet are inhabited by thought forms. (refer to cleansing rituals stories in the material).

...........

yet you are still proceeding on making grand conclusions about negative influence, negative capacities and so on, instead of spending that energy on catching up with the parts you neglected in the material and working your way up from there to make accurate conclusions with practical uses.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]yes. that must be it ! Ra must be allegorically referring to don's subconscious ................. and this is why they gave a direct answer of 2011 to a direct question asked by don ...

A "direct" answer indicating an approximation. Furthermore, the term Harvest was used to denote both individual harvest and planetary harvest. And, other statements must be reconciled with this one...such as "harvest is now", etc. So the answer isn't quite so 'direct' and clear as you seem to think.

Maybe to you, because you seem very certain about your own interpretation. But that's all it is: your interpretation. If Ra's words were as direct as you think, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. (We wouldn't even have this forum, for that matter.)

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]this stepped outside the bounds of simple logic at this moment. nomatter how your friend's subconscious is affected, when he asks a question and you directly answer it, you directly answer to a question your friend asked. an answer responding with a a name to question 'what is your name' level, cannot be 'allegorically referring to subconscious manipulations of .............'.

Sure it can. Any statement, no matter how simple or straightforward it might seem, could have meaning on multiple levels.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]don asked the date of harvest, Ra said 2011, even if don was totally out of his mind at that point, Ra was not.

There is ambiguity regarding the term harvest. And, Ra admitted the answer was an approximation.

What does Ra consider approximate? Ra, whose 6D span is millions of years? Is the date approximate to the hour, day, month, year, decade? Earlier, a quote was given in which a estimate spanned 1000 years. That's no small thing. 1000 years!!! 75,000 to 76,000 years...for a discrepancy of 1000!

As Icaro (or Tenet?) said earlier, if not for the Mayan Calendar, we probably wouldn't be so hung up on 2012...and now we have additional interpretations of the Mayan Calendar saying it's really 2011. This is a huge factor in the equation. I suspect most of us aren't relying solely on Ra's words here, but are allowing the Mayan Calendar to color our views considerably.

Which goes back to the question I asked in the other thread: Just why do we trust the Mayans so much? How sure are we that they aren't negatively influenced? Yes, you did answer my questions, unity100, but not satisfactorily. I am not impressed by parlor tricks. The Mayan Calendar might be nothing more than a parlor trick.

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying we really have no way of knowing, and in light of that, should we be putting so much faith into it?

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]not to be harbinger of cold hard truth,

No problem. I don't believe in cold hard truth.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]but that awakening, 'people getting it' etc are happening in your circles. there are 7 billion on this planet, and what you speak of isnt even a minority among those. the reason is simple - souls do not just instantly leap in progress because higher vibrations are available. they will live what they will live in their due time.

I get the impression from you that you see entities as separate from one another, and unable to affect one another. How does this fit into the concept of unity/oneness?

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]as for 'its too little too late' -> yes, it is too little. but, it is not late. the minority you see 'awakening'

You cannot know that it is a minority, any more than I can know that it isn't.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ](what kind of awakening that one is actually questionable) are 'awakening' because its their time on their spiritual path at this point, if they are awakening. the masses who are not awakening are not awakening because its not their time yet, and no amount of others awakening or propaganda or channeling or teaching or energies or vibrations will make them awaken before their time.

I don't agree here. I don't believe in preordained fate. Only from the perspective of the Creator is it already preordained. From our perspective, we still have to live it, so we still can affect what happens, and we still can affect others. We all affect one another. We aren't isolated, with a clock ticking inside, and powerless to change it. Sure, the timing will work out as preordained, according to the Creator's timetable, but as far as WE are concerned, we DID affect what happened and when, by our free will.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]so, there is no lateness here. the entities which will awaken were probably already meant for this planet or wanderers. in the case of latter, they have their own social memory complex, their own densities, and their awakening here during harvest, actually is not relevant to planet's own - even if it ramps up the average 'awakening' level for a time, the planet will revert to its normal natural 4d self with the 4d entities that came here for 4d eventually. and the 3d entities NEED 3d environment and experiences, and they will go to a proper 3d planet.

I'm not disputing any of that. I'm disputing whether there will be a transition time, in which Wanderers may stick around for a bit, to help with the transition. And I see value in the visions of these Wanderers, which you seem to readily dismiss as insignificant.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]there is nothing little or late about that. it is a simple process as much as the rays of the sun dropping on the face of the planet heats it and provides energies for life.

everything would be so much easy if it was otherwise. you would just plug in wanderers and sufficient number of 4d harvested entities to a planet during harvest time, and you would 'awaken' them.

And yet, Wanderers DID come here...for a reason...which supports the idea that they DO affect others, clearly.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]firstly, not having an explanation for a potential eventuality does not affect what reliable information we have. we cannot twist the information we have, to fit missing information or our expectations.

Sure we can, and we do. We ALL do, including you. You have simply twisted it in a different direction than, say, Icaro. But both are twisting, to make up for missing pieces.

The mistake is in thinking that the info is complete. It isn't.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]and your latter scenario actually may end up true, and it does not at all contradict with what Ra said aboud 3-4d bodies having to die. these bodies are able to live in 4d environment already. and, as of the necessities of 3-4d body, they will still die. it doesnt matter whether they live in a 3d environment and die, or, live in an environment vacated by 3d entities, but in 4d vibrations. they will still die. just like how 4d bodies will also eventually die when they evolve.

No one is disputing that they will die. The dispute is regarding when they will die. You seem deadset on the idea that death will happen, on a global scale, very soon. You also seem to imply that anyone contesting this, has issues about death or is uncomfortable with it. Well hell yeah! Why wouldn't we be?

But aside from that, the bottom line is that one interpretation is as valid as another. No one knows for sure. We will all just have to wait and find out, and no amount of debate will change that. In fact, IF we do in fact live in a holographic universe (as Ra stated), then we may each attract the scenario that we believe in, and each end up thinking we were 'right' when in fact we were ALL 'right.'

Ie., those who believe we'll all go poof, will see us all go poof. Those who believe we'll continue in these bodies, will be in a timeline in which that happens.

This is where you and I disagree. I believe in multiple timelines, at any given point. You've already explained your view on that, so no need to repeat (unless you want to); I'm just saying, that this is a huge part of why we have different ideas on how it's all gonna go down over the next few months or year. And, it explains why your 'clear' and 'logical' explanations don't cut it for me or some others, any more than Icaro's theories cut it for you. We're all coming from different paradigms and ne'er the twain shall meet.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]logically we dont have an explanation yet for what could happen post harvest. what we have, is what information we have. we cant change it to fit what we dont have. post-harvest, anything could happen.

Agreed. However we are discussing the mechanism of harvest itself. THAT is what is being disagreed upon.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]wanderers were here for helping harvest and 3d entities. if they got mixed in the sentiment of the times and started dieting, this that in order to be able to live in 4d environment, it is their own responsibility. whatever mechanic governs harvest and post harvest, will act in the way it was created to act. it wont change because some entities incarnated into the planet got caught up in the heat of the moment.

Presupposing that's what happened ("got caught up in the heat of the moment"). OR, you could simply be wrong...and those Wanderers are doing those things because...those things are very important to their mission.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]and, if there is a huge number of these people, who have a very strong vision of the future - a future that's peaceful and harmonious, its NOT this planet's future. its their vision.

It could be both. They are not mutually exclusive.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]they cannot imprint or infringe it upon the planet. the planet should move along with the visions and aims of the entities which are incarnating here for its 4d, as per rules of free will. a newly 4d planet is not a playground for wanderers to trifle with. it is also an entity.

If their vision is in alignment with the planet's, then there is no infringing, but it is all simply part of the process.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]healing the planet is the task of whichever entities that broke other planets. if some wanderers come and heal this planet in their frenzy, those other entities will need to offset their karma elsewhere. that will require another broken planet to be healed.

NOT "heal it in their frenzy"! HELP the newly harvested entities heal it! Which, again, may be the intended mission. Apparently it's not your mission, because you don't feel that inclination. However, some of us do. And you cannot tell us that we're "caught up in sentiment" because one entity cannot know the mission of another.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]and why shouldnt they be ? are they any lesser in rights and importance than 3d entities, for whom all this effort is being spent ?

I'm referring to those Wanderers who feel it is their mission to stick around and help. Those who don't feel that mission, will likely leave, no problem.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]of course, if they barge in and take over others' cosmic karma, they wouldnt be let off the hook.

Man, what's with the "barging in"? No one is "barging in."

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]please reread

I did. It didn't change my viewpoint.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:How do you know they haven't been called? Maybe the newly harvested entities have called and do want some assistance. After all, they have quite a mess to clean up.

if they call anyone, that would be after the 4d society starts to form. and whomever called, would come through normal proper means that were depicted in subjects related to sleep, learning from disincarnate teachers and so on in 4d talk in the material.

Aha...I see why we are disagreeing. You seem to be indicating that if it wasn't explicitly mentioned by Ra, then it "can't" happen. (Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding you...haha I know you will!)

Whereas, I am open to many possibilities beyond those that Ra has mentioned.

Case in point: There may be other ways of calling, besides those explicitly mentioned.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]you cant just drop in in 3d end, and then claim that you have been called - the ones calling you and allowed your incarnation were not 4d entities - they were 3d entities. and when they are gone, the call numbers go away.

No, they are the same entities! They were 3D and are now 4D!

They called. We came. You cannot know for certain, that we didn't agree to stick around a bit longer. Or we might even have renegotiated in the past 30 years.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]yes, it could work both ways, but it shouldnt cloud judgment and attempt twisting of the information one has, or, heaven forbid, trying to 'reinterpret' and twist basic important spiritual principles like free will to fit one's own biases.

Sorry, but that happens all the time. We ALL do that. There is no way any of us has the 'perfect' understanding of the Law of One, without any twisting or conforming to our own biases. Anyone thinking they have the 'pure' understanding, without any bias, is deluded, in my opinion. Just isn't possible.

Even what you call "basic spiritual principles" may seem "basic" to you, but are not agreed upon by all of us. Therefore, there is no way for any 1 person to claim to have the "correct" interpretation.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]mass death is not necessary for a wanderer which wants to leave. contacting infinite intelligence gives the entity the right to choose time of leaving at any given moment regardless of anything. so, those who contacted intelligent infinity up till this moment, and contacts it from this moment on at any time, will be able to leave this planet, as per the material we study is telling us.

Yeah, well how many of us have done that? Probably not very many. Most of us are too busy out there in the world, trying to fulfill our missions.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]a major desire for desiring a mass death scenario, could be the desire to see entities that are suffering freed from their unnecessary suffering however. this planet has a lot of imbalances and quirks that make proper 3d experience near impossibility, as evidenced by the harvest numbers and potentials complained by confederation. so, there is no need to have entities live through this inefficiency and make them suffer. proper placement in a proper 3d planet would be much more comfortable for a 3d entity and make it not only spiritually satisfied, but also willing to actually manifest and progress.

Isn't that...infringing? What if those entities don't want to have their suffering "ended" just yet?

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]no such possibility was mentioned in the material. so it is an outside observation. it cannot be concluded for sure or relied upon.

Neither can it be negated or dismissed. And simple observation may support the possibility that it's true.

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]don asked the date of harvest, Ra said 2011, even if don was totally out of his mind at that point, Ra was not.

I am sorry, but this is totally wrong. Don said 2011, and Ra failed to correct - or not correct - him, such as the case may be.

What Ra DID in fact say is: The harvest is now. And they did not correct this, as according to your view, they should and they would have. At the least, don't you think they would have anticipated this confusion we see before us in this forum? Or is this, too, another unforeseen consequence?

I understand there is a lot flying around this thread, but you seem to be losing sight of the fundamental issue raised here. And though you have made some valuable assessments, you have sort of dodged this core issue.

The syntax of this particular query is a great example of how confusion naturally follows from an improperly worded query. I don't know why I am explaining this to you. Ra's response is extremely precise. This is exactly NOT a casual conversation between two old friends. You appear to be talking past yourself on this particular point.

Let me break this down:

Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

1. Am I to understand...? Is Don to understand? Who is determining what Don is to understand and what Don is not to understand? Certainly not Ra. Ergo, confusion.

2. The harvest is to occur in the year 2011. In the year. Hmm. What if it begins in 2011, and persists until 2012? This portion of the query is partially true and partially false. More confusion.

3. Or will it be spread out? Well, actually, it could be BOTH in the year 2011 AND spread out. As many have forwarded. You cannot deny the logical possibility of this. It is what it is. Confusion again.

So now, Ra has to respond. What Ra has to do is offer the most precise response that takes into account the totality of logical possibilities from the query. Due to the utterly confused wording of the query, the amount of valuable information Ra can offer is greatly restricted. And what do they ACTUALLY say? Not that harvest is in 2011. They say:

1. This is an approximation.
2. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space.
3. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest.
4. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.

Note #3 actually says time/space nexus. Not space/time nexus. So therefore I am assuming this doesn't apply to the time period that we would refer to as "2011".

Note in #4 "at this time" could mean in 1981 when the query was made, or in 2011 at harvest-time. I believe this is directly relevant to the side conversation about hybrid entities.

(09-09-2011, 03:15 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]yes. that must be it ! Ra must be allegorically referring to don's subconscious ................. and this is why they gave a direct answer of 2011 to a direct question asked by don ...

A "direct" answer indicating an approximation. Furthermore, the term Harvest was used to denote both individual harvest and planetary harvest. And, other statements must be reconciled with this one...such as "harvest is now", etc. So the answer isn't quite so 'direct' and clear as you seem to think.

Maybe to you, because you seem very certain about your own interpretation. But that's all it is: your interpretation. If Ra's words were as direct as you think, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. (We wouldn't even have this forum, for that matter.)

i noticed that because you have not attended these recent 4 threads, you are reiterating all the discussion points we already have gone over. instead of referring you back to those threads, i will make a summary here and just point you to this post if the same points occur.

- 'harvest is now' is moot, since Ra has mentioned that the negative entities that were already dead circa 1981 'could be harvestable'. not 'harvested'. if harvest was 'then', then they would say that they were in the process of being harvested, or harvested.
- there is no planetary harvest of any kind mentioned in the material. if you mean cyclic harvest as opposed to an individual contacting intelligent infinity within the cycle, there is nothing to be reconciled with these
- a direct answer to a direct question is a direct answer. when there were multiple levels in information, ra always elaborated. or mentioned that there was more to that, but they could not elaborate. so, 2011 date is 2011 date as such.
- there isnt ambiguity in the term regarding harvest. it is well defined, even to its mechanism in time/space after death.
- ra did not approximate our dates with their understanding of time. many times, ra mentioned they were not part of time, therefore doing an estimate upon their perception would be totally irrelevant. in all cases in which this planet was involved, they used our estimates and periods. 2600 bc was not '5 quants before this eon', and 100-700 years time period estimate was not 5 manik and 7 larkin to 3 juan. it was in OUR years.
- we would be quite hung up on 2011, because the material we are studying explicitly gives that date, and some people who trust the material have problems with it. if they didnt have this much problem, we would really be not so hung up on this date.
-

Quote:Which goes back to the question I asked in the other thread: Just why do we trust the Mayans so much? How sure are we that they aren't negatively influenced? Yes, you did answer my questions, unity100, but not satisfactorily. I am not impressed by parlor tricks. The Mayan Calendar might be nothing more than a parlor trick.

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying we really have no way of knowing, and in light of that, should we be putting so much faith into it?

i have given historical information, info about the traits of mayan/south american societies to the point of agricultural tendencies, connecting a lot of things together. if these are parlor tricks for you, i can come up with a lot of ridiculing adjectives for for a behavior that tries to interpret a direct answer to a direct question as a 'grand interpretation in metaphorical presentialization of multi-layered meaning denial'.

then there would be no point to discussing.

Quote:No problem. I don't believe in cold hard truth.

yes. however it just doesnt go away with not believing in it, or declaring 'holographicness'.

Quote:I get the impression from you that you see entities as separate from one another, and unable to affect one another. How does this fit into the concept of unity/oneness?

unity/oneness you speak about is not something that comes into practice before mid 6d. otherwise, there would be no wars, no 2d, no 3d, no 4d, no maldek explosion, no this, no that.

referrals to a future point in time does not change the properties that this density was created with.

and, in that density you cannot just 'influence other entities through oneness' to make them 'awaken and progress fast'.

there were a lot of attempts which wanted to do that, they even used technology, and you see what the result is.

[quote']
You cannot know that it is a minority, any more than I can know that it isn't.
[/quote]

no actually i can. ranging from how people in third world countries - which constitute majority of world population by the way - live, think, what they do, what are their choices in regard to politics and philosophies and religions, crime rate, traditions and many more factors, i can easily have a good picture of whats going on in the world.

you cannot have that picture by just looking at what goes on in your relevant circles in usa, and on internet however. just land in anywhere south or east of europe, and you will see little from that awakening of yours.

i wish it was to the contrary.

Quote:I don't agree here. I don't believe in preordained fate. Only from the perspective of the Creator is it already preordained. From our perspective, we still have to live it, so we still can affect what happens, and we still can affect others. We all affect one another. We aren't isolated, with a clock ticking inside, and powerless to change it. Sure, the timing will work out as preordained, according to the Creator's timetable, but as far as WE are concerned, we DID affect what happened and when, by our free will.

your 'affecting others' take the form of making them skip 3d lessons. making them 'awaken' and whatnot.

you wont be able to do that. just look back at the spiritual history of this planet and the 'aid' that was attempted.

- "oh, i just want you to progress so much. look, here, i have this kind of vibration,i have this information and ....."
- "ok let me totally skip living an entire 3d, and just jump to 4d just because you got these stuff"

it doesnt happen.

Quote:I'm not disputing any of that. I'm disputing whether there will be a transition time, in which Wanderers may stick around for a bit, to help with the transition. And I see value in the visions of these Wanderers, which you seem to readily dismiss as insignificant.

i dismiss them as infringing. in the 'transition time' you speak about, the wanderers would already have infringed upon the very founding of the 4d on this planet.

Quote:And yet, Wanderers DID come here...for a reason...which supports the idea that they DO affect others, clearly.

the reason for that was named as 'lightening the vibrations of the planet', which was apparently especially meant to alleviate the problems the discrepancies in 3d vibrations and 4d vibrations generate.

so far, they seem to have succeeded.

and aside from their own incarnational lessons, offering themselves for service to 3d entities, based on whose call they came here. not call of 4d entities which were yet unborn.

Quote:Sure we can, and we do. We ALL do, including you. You have simply twisted it in a different direction than, say, Icaro. But both are twisting, to make up for missing pieces.

i did not make for any missing pieces. as an example, even though tenet asked how could the situation of the 3-4d entities after mass deaths be handled, i told that i didnt have an answer, and i reiterated that we shouldnt try to twist information we have to make up for what we dont.

please dont claim that i did things which i have not.

Quote:The mistake is in thinking that the info is complete. It isn't.

the mistake is in trying to invalidate what we actually have complete, as incomplete because we cannot make up for the incomplete parts, or we dont like the complete ones. and this thing has been going on for 4 threads.

Quote:No one is disputing that they will die. The dispute is regarding when they will die. You seem deadset on the idea that death will happen, on a global scale, very soon. You also seem to imply that anyone contesting this, has issues about death or is uncomfortable with it. Well hell yeah! Why wouldn't we be?

i am not dead set on anything - no wait, actually there is something i am dead set on :

arguing against total rewriting or neglecting or denial of existing uncomfortable information or, heaven forbid, trying to invalidate 90% of the information through various made up means just to negate that piece of information - when we dont like it. and indeed, i do call that there is some bias involved if people do that, for 4 threads' duration to boot. if a person goes to 4 threads' length to go around some information, and in the end ends up proposing something that would invalidate 90% of that information, without knowing what they are doing, and then STILL cant follow on their proposal by invalidating 90% of the information due to their actual strong belief and trust in the material, you say that there is some bias involved. especially if all these happen without the person not budging their position at all.

Quote:But aside from that, the bottom line is that one interpretation is as valid as another.

ok. then i reinterpret and propose that the 'i am Ra' sentence was prefixed to all of the questions by a negative entity. validate this. i can argue for 4 threads, defending that in the same fashion.

Quote:This is where you and I disagree. I believe in multiple timelines, at any given point. You've already explained your view on that, so no need to repeat (unless you want to); I'm just saying, that this is a huge part of why we have different ideas on how it's all gonna go down over the next few months or year. And, it explains why your 'clear' and 'logical' explanations don't cut it for me or some others, any more than Icaro's theories cut it for you. We're all coming from different paradigms and ne'er the twain shall meet.

icaro's isnt a theory. it is an attempt to negate a piece of information he doesnt like, and invalidating 90% of the material in the process. but because he doesnt want to invalidate all of the material but just that few quotes he have kinks with, he introduces a lot of subjective measurements that he instantly performs, gauging the purity level of questioner, negative influence level on the contact and so on.

Quote:Presupposing that's what happened ("got caught up in the heat of the moment"). OR, you could simply be wrong...and those Wanderers are doing those things because...those things are very important to their mission.

have you seen any case of a wanderer scenario in the material for any wanderer incarnating in a lower density than its own, into 4d, 5d, or 6d ?

no.

Quote:

Quote:and, if there is a huge number of these people, who have a very strong vision of the future - a future that's peaceful and harmonious, its NOT this planet's future. its their vision.

It could be both. They are not mutually exclusive.

they are mutually exclusive. otherwise we wouldnt have laws of free will, veils, quarantines and so on. free will of entities in regard to choosing the influences upon them just do not end with 3d.

Quote:If their vision is in alignment with the planet's, then there is no infringing, but it is all simply part of the process.

it is still infringing. it is learn/teaching on other entities' behalf. whatever vision 4d entities have, its their honor/duty to realize that vision. not interlopers which think that they should barge in.

Quote:NOT "heal it in their frenzy"! HELP the newly harvested entities heal it! Which, again, may be the intended mission. Apparently it's not your mission, because you don't feel that inclination. However, some of us do. And you cannot tell us that we're "caught up in sentiment" because one entity cannot know the mission of another.

excuse me, im not making these up my ass. in the process of validating the inclinations, you are promptly ignoring a lot of important information that is in the material you are studying, as i demonstrated above. ranging from free will to quarantine to no wanderer phenomenon in densities higher than 3d to learn/teaching with entities in HIGHER densities than 4d happening in sleep periods in 4d.

Quote:I'm referring to those Wanderers who feel it is their mission to stick around and help. Those who don't feel that mission, will likely leave, no problem.

yes. and the others who 'want to stick around' will just be let, at the cost of totally infringing themselves on this planet's present and future.

one would think that the logos of this locale would tighten the veil and introduce various strong measures to prevent entities from so easily being contacted and influenced by even entities dwelling in higher densities than theirs, after the light veil experience in venus - oh wait - logos actually did that.

there must be a reason for that.

Quote:Man, what's with the "barging in"? No one is "barging in."

if you say so ...

Quote:Aha...I see why we are disagreeing. You seem to be indicating that if it wasn't explicitly mentioned by Ra, then it "can't" happen. (Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding you...haha I know you will!)

Whereas, I am open to many possibilities beyond those that Ra has mentioned.

Case in point: There may be other ways of calling, besides those explicitly mentioned.

it cannot happen, due to mechanisms of free will. these wont change even when Ra passes away from this octave, or this octave ends.

entities which are yet not even born into a 4d planet which they dont even know that is going to be positive or negative, cannot call other entities pre-emptively to that planet.

Quote:

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]you cant just drop in in 3d end, and then claim that you have been called - the ones calling you and allowed your incarnation were not 4d entities - they were 3d entities. and when they are gone, the call numbers go away.

No, they are the same entities! They were 3D and are now 4D!

They called. We came. You cannot know for certain, that we didn't agree to stick around a bit longer. Or we might even have renegotiated in the past 30 years.

incorrect.

4d harvestees from other planets, were 4d harvestees from OTHER planets who didnt start incarnating until circa 1981. 4 harvestees TO BE from this planet, are yet NOT harvested.

in either case, they will be incarnating in veil-thinned 3-4d transitionary bodies, and they will be able to quite easily use the 'learning from disincarnate teachers during sleep' facet 4d density and its bodies offer.

if they call, a teacher will come in their 'sleep'.

Quote:Sorry, but that happens all the time. We ALL do that. There is no way any of us has the 'perfect' understanding of the Law of One, without any twisting or conforming to our own biases. Anyone thinking they have the 'pure' understanding, without any bias, is deluded, in my opinion. Just isn't possible.

Even what you call "basic spiritual principles" may seem "basic" to you, but are not agreed upon by all of us. Therefore, there is no way for any 1 person to claim to have the "correct" interpretation.

excuse me, but i will have to call nonsense on trying to label totally denying a direct answer to a direct question like the one in subject here, as any kind of 'interpretation' or else.

as i said, i claim that 'i am Ra' prefix was prefixed onto answers by a negative entity. and i can discuss that it is as such in equal strength for 4 threads with the invalidations icaro has used.

accept this as an interpretation then.

Quote:Yeah, well how many of us have done that? Probably not very many. Most of us are too busy out there in the world, trying to fulfill our missions.

all entities react to the unchangeable during harvest. since everyone is harvested at the end of last cycle in 3d, regardless of incarnated or disincarnate, however disoriented or disarrayed they may be to the extent that they may be even unable to contact their higher self, everyone will get a good chance in that contact. in the presence and with the aid of harvesters from the NEXT octave to boot.

Quote:Isn't that...infringing? What if those entities don't want to have their suffering "ended" just yet?

if so, they would have not incarnated in an 3d sphere which was about to end in a known date, and instead they would go to planets which there would be proper suffering for them.

---

(09-09-2011, 03:22 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 02:15 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]don asked the date of harvest, Ra said 2011, even if don was totally out of his mind at that point, Ra was not.

I am sorry, but this is totally wrong. Don said 2011, and Ra failed to correct - or not correct - him, such as the case may be.

which evaluates to harvest being in 2011. 'this is an approximation'.

Quote:What Ra DID in fact say is: The harvest is now. And they did not correct this, as according to your view, they should and they would have. At the least, don't you think they would have anticipated this confusion we see before us in this forum? Or is this, too, another unforeseen consequence?

I understand there is a lot flying around this thread, but you seem to be losing sight of the fundamental issue raised here. And though you have made some valuable assessments, you have sort of dodged this core issue.

The syntax of this particular query is a great example of how confusion naturally follows from an improperly worded query. I don't know why I am explaining this to you. Ra's response is extremely precise. This is exactly NOT a casual conversation between two old friends. You appear to be talking past yourself on this particular point.

excuse me, why we are on that quote, AGAIN ? this is the nth time we have iterated through this. i dont know you are just selectively non-perceiving it or just get stuck on that quote because some others were unable to let go of it for the sake of their own arguments and reiterated it like there is no tomorrow.

let me clear it up :

- negative inclined entities from third reich, including himmler and goering are queried, two of which are already DEAD, some of which were alive by 1981. ra answers that these entities MAY BE HARVESTABLE. if harvest 'was then', in 1981, ra would say that these entities were BEING harvested, or HARVESTED. yet, they were mentioned as probably harvestable as negative. this means, harvest did not start yet, and the harvesters which are to asses harvestability of entities by placing them in their violet ray body, were NOT there yet.

- ra would say that harvest WAS happening at that point in time if it was. there is no simpler way of putting it. 'harvest is now' is no different from the phrase 'a balrog is come'. it is a phrase in english that informs of imminency. same with 'it is upon us'.

Quote:Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

1. Am I to understand...? Is Don to understand? Who is determining what Don is to understand and what Don is not to understand? Certainly not Ra. Ergo, confusion.

it is a two phased question which can be answered by answering either. it is a common occurrence in our daily life in all languages, and i rarely seen anyone getting so confused by it up till this point.

Quote:2. The harvest is to occur in the year 2011. In the year. Hmm. What if it begins in 2011, and persists until 2012? This portion of the query is partially true and partially false. More confusion.

if it begins in 2011, and persists until 2012, it means that it still happens within a year's duration or so, fulfilling the 'in the year' phrase. it also would fulfill the 'approximation' factor.

Quote:3. Or will it be spread out? Well, actually, it could be BOTH in the year 2011 AND spread out. As many have forwarded. You cannot deny the logical possibility of this. It is what it is. Confusion again.

deny the logical possibility of this ?

i have explicitly told a FEW times that, the phrase above evaluated to a harvest happening WITHIN a year, within the estimate range of 2011 vicinity, with the approximation being in the measure of years, but not taking a year.

excuse me, but, you not only have read these, but also responded to me when i told these, at length.

and here you are, telling me that i cant 'deny' something i myself has openly declared approx 2 threads before and repetitively after.

what do you expect me to do at this point ? do you see any logic in me continuing discussing with you ? it would be illogical if i dismissed discussing this with you at this point ?

you are SO overindulged in this that, it seems you are not remembering what you yourself have discussed with someone else a few times in succession, and still trying to force confusion into the quote. maybe you shouldnt force yourself too much to squeeze water out of stones.

i dont know the reasons for this. but, in this practical state, i would be totally illogical for me to keep on discussing with you.

(09-09-2011, 03:13 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]as for the books etc you have brought regarding disasters etc, there is no way in hell that you can use such scattered stuff as solid footing to make conclusions. any number of situations and circumstances can cause such coincidences. only, if coincidences were shown to be the rule with few exceptions, you could start working on some connection.

I am hardly publishing a book and trying to make it an Amazon Bestseller. This is the process of gathering information. One draws conclusions, looks for evidence, and sees if it holds up. That doesn't mean every time a new idea is introduced it must have already been tested against the strictest of standards.

unity100 Wrote:yes. and that bit is important. you had had expressed that you had experience with negative entities before.

Well, yes. The experience involved another person who succumbed to a direct attack from a negative entity. Looking back, I can see how I was slowly manipulated into the situation by this entity. Long story short is this entity appeared to have some specific malice toward me, attempting to get to me through several others. I still do not know what would cause it to be so hateful toward me and others.

With one person it was particularly successful. This resulted in a complete mental breakdown of this individual, from which he has not recovered to my knowledge. The crisis point was his concoction of a paranoid fantasy that I was masterminding a plot to have him committed to a mental institution. No matter what I said, I could not penetrate this delusion and bring him back to his senses. Indeed he seemed to be rather out of his body (which was drug-induced) and that another entity had taken control of things.

Furthermore, this entity appeared to be specifically delighted in my failure to remove it fully from the situation. Since that time, the "abilities" have manifested such that this individual will go into a manic state and call me leaving all manner of psychobabble messages right after it just so happens that I was thinking of him. It would appear this entity has some capacity to not only monitor my mental/emotional state, but is able to whip up this individual into a psychotic state at will.

So it is disturbing to have attracted such an entity to oneself. But you are implying the key to this situation is somewhere in Book 4, so I will continue to look for it. Unless you wanted to offer it up. You implied it has to do with thought forms in lower astral planes. Yes, I understand they are there. Are you saying that I am only dealing with thought forms of my own creation, and simply projecting coincidence upon events that have no connection whatsoever?

unity100 Wrote:you could just transfer more power to that entity by believing that it was of capacity that could change past and future, inflating its persona, ending in a net result of increase in power of the entity.

How would such transfer of power be reversed? Or... just read Book 4.

(09-09-2011, 04:31 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

unity100 Wrote:yes. and that bit is important. you had had expressed that you had experience with negative entities before.

Well, yes. The experience involved another person who succumbed to a direct attack from a negative entity.

i had had thought that you have directly experienced this attack. i was mistaken.

Quote:But you are implying the key to this situation is somewhere in Book 4, so I will continue to look for it. Unless you wanted to offer it up. You implied it has to do with thought forms in lower astral planes. Yes, I understand they are there. Are you saying that I am only dealing with thought forms of my own creation, and simply projecting coincidence upon events that have no connection whatsoever?

i have been just mentioning that there are a lot of stuff you need to learn or brush up on before starting to make grand conclusions of any kind. the kind of conclusions you are making in this particular matter are more serious than the ones you have been making about date of harvest.

...........

just read book 4d. get into what time/space is. what conscious, subconscious is. what veil is. what mind, body, spirit are. and the rest. a strong base is needed to move forward to conclusions.

Quote:

unity100 Wrote:you could just transfer more power to that entity by believing that it was of capacity that could change past and future, inflating its persona, ending in a net result of increase in power of the entity.

How would such transfer of power be reversed? Or... just read Book 4.

foremost by ceasing the transfer of power. this may require getting knowledge of the situation. that could require book 4 or similar information.

(09-08-2011, 01:20 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]This is what my opinion has evolved into. Don must have been receiving temptation and manipulation before the sessions, and this is what Ra was referring to allegorically within the sessions themselves, and also how the group's sessions will be taken out of context in the future (our conversations now).

That's an interesting hypothesis, but it's contradicted by this quote:

Quote:67.23 Questioner: I personally have felt no effect that I am aware of. Is it possible for you to tell me how we are offered this service?

Ra: I am Ra. The questioner has been offered the service of doubting the self and of becoming disheartened over various distortions of the personal nature. This entity has not chosen to use these opportunities and the Orion entity has basically ceased to be interested in maintaining constant surveillance of this entity.

The scribe is under constant surveillance and has been offered numerous opportunities for the intensification of the mental/emotional distortions and in some cases the connection matrices between mental/emotional complexes and the physical complex counterpart. As this entity has become aware of these attacks it has become much less pervious to them. This is the particular cause of the great intensification and constancy of the surveillance of the instrument, for it is the weak link due to factors beyond its control within this incarnation.

(09-09-2011, 12:20 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 12:13 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-09-2011, 12:07 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]harvest providing the vibrations required for using green ray environment is not based on anything.

Incorrect. You are ignoring that the 3D graduate gets harvested to a 4D vibration. That is the essence that attracts the 4D material.

incorrect your incorrect - the planet moved into 4d vibrations in 1937, and it was true color green a long time ago before 3-4d entities started incarnating.

Yes it did, but the formation of local 4D material is gradual from that point, and this process is effected by the entire planet+inhabitant sub-logos system (thoughts/attitudes congruent with influx), as we read in the material. I'm at a loss to see why you can't understand why as the planet attracts more and more material, this material will be made available to 4D vibrational entities for the purpose of creating bodies. Not sure how much more obvious, or simple, the descriptions and the process could be.

"At this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed."

"The influxes of true color green energy complexes will more and more create the conditions in which the atomic structure of cells of bodily complexes is that of the density of love"

"As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape..."

"Meanwhile there is another sphere, congruent to a great extent with yellow ray, forming. This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third. It is of a denser nature due to the rotational core atomic aspects of its material. We have discussed this subject with you."

"there is a correlation between the energy field of an entity of your nature and planetary bodies, for all material is constructed by means of the dynamic tension of the magnetic field. The lines of force in both cases may be seen to be much like the interweaving spirals of the braided hair. "

"At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period."

(09-09-2011, 09:16 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]That's an interesting hypothesis, but it's contradicted by this quote:

Thanks for bringing that up. I don't see how that contradicts my idea here. Ra is speaking about manipulation of the emotional health and doubting the self on a personal level it seems. It only takes a small suggestion to ask specific information that Don feels would be important. Like receiving in meditation a thought to ask about the Tunguska crater of all things....

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]it is a phrase in english that informs of imminency. same with 'it is upon us'.

Yes. Right. NOW means is immanent and "upon us". This does not imply in 30 years. NOW means "at the present moment". This is what it means to an English speaker.

Why am I still harping on this quote? Well mostly because you totally misstated it in your reply to Bring4th_Monica. According to you, Ra said 2011. Otherwise, I likely wouldn't have brought it up again.

unity100 Wrote:it is a two phased question which can be answered by answering either. it is a common occurrence in our daily life in all languages, and i rarely seen anyone getting so confused by it up till this point.

The query is more than two phased. It is actually a horrible query, and it is unfortunate that, not only is it asking for exact information (against Ra's specific advice), but the syntax and logic of the query is extremely convoluted. Moreover, Ra's answer is not as clear as it it could be. Do you not think there is an explanation for this?

If Don asked me that question in daily life, I would have just as much trouble answering it. First of all, I would inform Don that he is, or is not, to understand whatever is in his capacity to understand. You are overlooking that the entire question was phrased AS IF Ra had a clear agenda toward disclosing that harvest was in 2011. Ra has no agenda, other than being a humble messenger of the Law of One. Therefore, it is perilous for Ra to even answer ANYTHING to such a query.

Don is not only directly asking for specific data after being discouraged, and borderline reprimanded by Ra. And THEN he frames the query in terms that not only make it UNANSWERABLE but belies an either total misunderstanding, or a temporary brain fart, on Don's behalf, by implying that there was some specific information that Ra intended to convey previously, but did not do in a clear manner.

If Ra's communication was so crystal clear on the matter... then why would Don have gone back to this topic at all. Am I to understand....? This seems to imply a high degree of incredulity or skepticism on Don's behalf. And with good reason.

Why all the confusion on this quote, unity100? Even you yourself just stated a complete untruth, putting "2011" into Ra's words when actually it came out of Don's mouth. Even after all this time of meticulously studying the material, you have recurring brain farts on this quote. This is also significant.

And others appear to have recurring brain farts on this quote. Is this mere coincidence that it is the quote that "just so happens" to link harvest to a specific year? Why did Ra not make this more clear?

Moreover, why is this all coming together now in this moment? After 30 years, and some of the world's best scholars of the Law of One still can't come to a consensus on one of the most far reaching concepts contained therein?

I see two pills two swallow here. The first pill has to do with accepting harvest and mass death as basically synonymous. There are obvious reasons for this difficulty. You have done well in pointing out where people are in denial here, and actually you have begun to offer reasons and explanations why there is no need to fear this. This is extremely useful.

The second pill has to do with accepting that the Ra material- despite being the best we have- fell considerably short of what it could have been. This is across the board, and extends into the direct effect the process had on L/L Research, and extends into our ability as seekers to correctly perceive what it says.

"Something" or "somebody" within L/L (sorry I do not know the backstory of this or who is personally responsible) made the decision to publish Book V (in 1998 I believe)? Then came the relistening project. Do you see? How the very quotes which were redacted prevented the seeker from groking the fullness of Ra's message? Do you see? How even the changes that have come out of the relistening project have forced us to reevaluate some things?

Why is this? This is because the material stands as a whole, as one. I understand exactly why L/L decided to make redactions and leave things out. I understand that this decision was motivated by love. And yet it seems to me that the decision was born out of a denial of the message at hand: All Is One. The Law of One also applies to the Ra material itself, taken as a whole.

There was a reason for this. We are now in the process of uncovering that reason. And if we can grasp this "meta" information that was given to us, then we will be able to turn what was previously a negative result into a positive. We can do better than this.

The negative result is confusion. And is the "foundation rock" of the evidence for why anybody would "dare" to suggest that the material is not 100% pristine, and free from error.

If it were 100% pristine and free from error, then we would all clearly agree upon what it says.

But we don't. It appears impossible at this exact nexus. So far... Ra's efforts in communicating the harvest have been largely unsuccessful.

It appears that Ra has only managed to make things crystal clear to one person. That is you, unity100. Luckily, if they reached one, they reached all. So I guess there is nothing to be concerned about here.

unity100 Wrote:i have explicitly told a FEW times that, the phrase above evaluated to a harvest happening WITHIN a year, within the estimate range of 2011 vicinity, with the approximation being in the measure of years, but not taking a year.

excuse me, but, you not only have read these, but also responded to me when i told these, at length.

and here you are, telling me that i cant 'deny' something i myself has openly declared approx 2 threads before and repetitively after.

You specifically said that the phrase could be evaluated either way? Sorry, I missed it.

IF harvest began in 1900 and proceeded through 2100, THEN it would STILL BE TRUE that harvest was in 2011.

I don't think that is what it means. I am pointing out that the statement could be correctly evaluated either way, from a syntax standpoint. I am not arguing with your assessment, which I largely agree with and was concurring on through the last however many threads.

I am pointing out that the statement can, in fact, be correctly evaluated to mean something it does not. Why is this possible? Because Ra did not give a clear answer.

Why did Ra do this? I can think of a few possible explanations. And would be interested in investigating them. Perhaps this will be useful to me when I make contact with intelligent infinity, whether 2 months from now, or 2 billion years from now.

Your view appears to require that Ra gave exactly the best possible reply to every query. Yet Ra actually went back and corrected mistakes. And you know this. So now your view is paradoxical.

IF a "mistake" was made, on any level, at any time, on the part of any person related with the creation or distribution of the material, or in the mind of any seeker reading the material causing them to not only draw false conclusions, but also to make "GRAND" false conclusions which could be easily propagated [b]and[/b] leading others to go astray, THEN there must be a teach/learning opportunity here.

This is because there are no mistakes. You see somebody calling 90% of the material into question; I see somebody saying Ra is so much more clever than we previously imagined.

---

(09-09-2011, 05:24 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i had had thought that you have directly experienced this attack. i was mistaken.

No, you were not mistaken. I continued to have direct attacks simultaneously with indirect attacks, as if in a coordinated manner. And also with specificity and timing elements which further suggested a high degree of planning and coordination. I just did not share all the details.

This is what it feels like: Something wants so desperately for me to feel fear and doubt that it appears to be willing to go to great ends to achieve this. Including taking a meticulous study of my psychology and character flaws, and to the point of stalking me for a number of years, using others to attempt to manipulate me, and in a few cases apparently physically attempting to take over another person's body to do so. This happened with more than one person.

In one specific case, another person was caused to grab the wheel as I was speeding down a highway, and attempt to ram the vehicle straight into a wall at 70mph. This happened directly AFTER I made a comment referring to the "world that will come" meaning fourth density. This individual's response: "Let's go now!"

So this sucks, because firstly it causes me to feel like I am a paranoid nutjob for even thinking this in the first place. Secondly, because I still do not understand why I am being targeted. I am a nobody. I have little power over others outside of my immediate influence, which is small. Thirdly, because despite my sincere attempts to use this as a catalyst and "learn the lesson" I apparently continue to fail to do so.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i noticed that because you have not attended these recent 4 threads, you are reiterating all the discussion points we already have gone over. instead of referring you back to those threads, i will make a summary here and just point you to this post if the same points occur.

That's true, so thank you for the summary! I appreciate it. I assume you are referring to:

The Harvest > The Present Moment and Intuitive Perceptions of the Harvest - Part I

The Harvest > Quite interesting - Mayan day/nights and earth periods

Which other 2 are you referring to:

I see these which are of the same topic, and may offer insights:

The Harvest > 3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock interview)

The Harvest > Post-harvest continuity of consciousness

The Harvest > Harvest as Salvation

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]- 'harvest is now' is moot, since Ra has mentioned that the negative entities that were already dead circa 1981 'could be harvestable'. not 'harvested'. if harvest was 'then', then they would say that they were in the process of being harvested, or harvested.
- there is no planetary harvest of any kind mentioned in the material. if you mean cyclic harvest as opposed to an individual contacting intelligent infinity within the cycle, there is nothing to be reconciled with these
- a direct answer to a direct question is a direct answer. when there were multiple levels in information, Ra always elaborated. or mentioned that there was more to that, but they could not elaborate. so, 2011 date is 2011 date as such.
- there isnt ambiguity in the term regarding harvest. it is well defined, even to its mechanism in time/space after death.
- Ra did not approximate our dates with their understanding of time. many times, Ra mentioned they were not part of time, therefore doing an estimate upon their perception would be totally irrelevant. in all cases in which this planet was involved, they used our estimates and periods. 2600 bc was not '5 quants before this eon', and 100-700 years time period estimate was not 5 manik and 7 larkin to 3 juan. it was in OUR years.
- we would be quite hung up on 2011, because the material we are studying explicitly gives that date, and some people who trust the material have problems with it. if they didnt have this much problem, we would really be not so hung up on this date.

This is a summary of your conclusions. That's ok. I don't expect you to summarize the conclusions of others, which you may disagree with. I'm just noting that these are your conclusions, and not necessarily irrefutable fact.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i have given historical information, info about the traits of mayan/south american societies to the point of agricultural tendencies, connecting a lot of things together. if these are parlor tricks for you,

Historical info isn't a parlor trick. Being able to manifest something, such as a psychic healing, telekinesis, telepathy, etc. could be parlor tricks; ie. they seem dazzling to those unable to do such things, but don't necessarily mean anything about the polarity or intentions of the one doing the tricks.

As an example, I know of self-proclaimed gurus who've been able to enlist a following, because of their ability to demonstrate psychic phenomena. Their followers used the phenomena as 'proof' that the gurus were authentic, not realizing that negative entities can do the same thing.

That's what I mean by "parlor tricks." The Mayans' ability to calculate time far into the distance, alone isn't enough reason to trust them. It may just mean that they had that particular knowledge.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i can come up with a lot of ridiculing adjectives for for a behavior that tries to interpret a direct answer to a direct question as a 'grand interpretation in metaphorical presentialization of multi-layered meaning denial'.

Well thank you for not doing that.

The point here is, that you have concluded that this "grand interpretation in metaphorical presentialization (?) of multi-layered meaning" ... is...denial.

However, not everyone agrees with your conclusion. There might be merit in this presentation. Just because it all makes perfect sense to you, and you are able to make clear conclusions, doesn't mean you're right and them wrong. It could be the opposite.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]then there would be no point to discussing.

There is no point in discussing, unless we are all open to setting our preconceived ideas and conclusions aside, to make room for new insights. It is possible that both sides of the debate are partially correct. There could be some denial going on - as on who doesn't like the idea of us all dying very soon, I readily admit that - or it could be something much greater than mere denial - it could be that those of us who don't like that idea, are creating a different reality. In which case, it isn't denial at all, but simply choice.

This is a proposition that you've indicated you disagree with, and that's ok. My point is simply that it's not a given that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of that particular quote, is in "denial." There are other possible explanations.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:No problem. I don't believe in cold hard truth.

yes. however it just doesnt go away with not believing in it, or declaring 'holographicness'.

I will rephrase: I believe in cold hard truth, but I don't believe that anyone's declaration of what they think is 'cold hard truth' is actually cold hard truth. Why? Because each person colors that truth with their own biases.

You tend to scoff at any mention of a holographic universe, yet this is a commonly accepted premise, for good reason, not the least of which is scientific support as well as experiential support.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]unity/oneness you speak about is not something that comes into practice before mid 6d. otherwise, there would be no wars, no 2d, no 3d, no 4d, no maldek explosion, no this, no that.

Perfect unity/oneness, sure. But it exists here too, just not in perfect manifestation.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]referrals to a future point in time does not change the properties that this density was created with.

and, in that density you cannot just 'influence other entities through oneness' to make them 'awaken and progress fast'.

there were a lot of attempts which wanted to do that, they even used technology, and you see what the result is.

I'm not referring to forcefully trying to awaken someone who isn't ready. I'm referring to providing gentle nudges, when the person IS ready for those nudges. I do it every day, and see the fruits of my labors. I see others doing it too. This is in the category of lightening the planetary vibrations just be being true to our nature. It is the nature of Wanderers to care about others, and show that caring. To not show caring, would be to not be true to our own natures. It so happens, that by showing that caring, we help nudge those who are ready to be nudged, just as Ra has answered our call and is providing a nudge in a different way, by their service. It's all service.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]no actually i can. ranging from how people in third world countries - which constitute majority of world population by the way - live, think, what they do, what are their choices in regard to politics and philosophies and religions, crime rate, traditions and many more factors, i can easily have a good picture of whats going on in the world.

No, you can't, because you cannot know the hearts, minds and souls of everyone on the planet. These things cannot be known by outer circumstances. I realize you don't consider the Q'uo channelings as authoritative, and I respect that, but for what it's worth, Q'uo has indicated that enough people on this planet have opened their hearts enough, so that the tipping point was reached and the planet is no longer susceptible to takeover by STS. Q'uo went on to explain that, despite outer circumstances appearing to the contrary, many souls are indeed harvestable. Souls that don't make the news. Only the extremes make the news, so we cannot judge by what we see on the news.

Leaving out Q'uo, an assessment cannot be made based on the news. There are many people just living normal, boring lives, whose hearts are opening, and there is no way to know about them because they aren't in the news. The vast majority of people aren't engaged in wars or criminal activity.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]you cannot have that picture by just looking at what goes on in your relevant circles in usa, and on internet however. just land in anywhere south or east of europe, and you will see little from that awakening of yours.

I work with a lot of people on a daily basis, all over the country and even some international, and have been for 20+ years. I've definitely noticed a shift, across the board. Not with everyone, but with many. True, my observation is subjective, but then so is yours. The fact is that neither of us can assess the hearts of others.

You are saying I cannot assess based on my interactions with real people, yet you are assessing based on what? Crime rates?

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]your 'affecting others' take the form of making them skip 3d lessons. making them 'awaken' and whatnot.

No, not at all. If someone isn't ready for whatever I have to offer, I leave them be.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]- "oh, i just want you to progress so much. look, here, i have this kind of vibration,i have this information and ....."
- "ok let me totally skip living an entire 3d, and just jump to 4d just because you got these stuff"

it doesnt happen.

You have misunderstood. No one is suggesting those things.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i dismiss them as infringing. in the 'transition time' you speak about, the wanderers would already have infringed upon the very founding of the 4d on this planet.

And yet, we know from Ra that there will be a transition time, of 100-700 years. How do you reconcile that with your assertion that Wanderers must all leave? (You may have already addressed this in another thread, in which case directing me there would be appreciated.)

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i did not make for any missing pieces. as an example, even though tenet asked how could the situation of the 3-4d entities after mass deaths be handled, i told that i didnt have an answer, and i reiterated that we shouldnt try to twist information we have to make up for what we dont.

please dont claim that i did things which i have not.

Perhaps the word twisted was too strong. I retract that word. How about colored? We all color our interpretation of Ra's words with our own biases. No one is immune to that.

As an example, an entity who is suffering from severe debilitation, or who is depressed or otherwise unhappy with life, may be anxious to leave this planet, and therefore may interpret Ra's words as a blessed relief, and actually look forward to death of the 3D vehicle. Whereas, an entity who is enjoying life, has young children to care for and a bright future ahead, and who loves the Earth and Sun, is likely to interpret Ra's words differently, to allow for the possibility of a transition time, in which at least some of the entities live out their lives.

One entity cannot say to the other, "If you don't see it my way you are in denial" because Ra's words are subject to interpretation. Even the 2011 quote is subject to interpretation, and even more so, when the quote about transition is taken into consideration. You continually insist that Ra's words are clear, and allow for only 1 'obvious' interpretation, and yet many of us disagree with you on this.

A different interpretation isn't necessarily "twisting."

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]the mistake is in trying to invalidate what we actually have complete, as incomplete because we cannot make up for the incomplete parts, or we dont like the complete ones. and this thing has been going on for 4 threads.

Yes, but the 2011 issue isn't "complete" because there are other quotes which must be factored in, as well as Ra's concept of time, etc. Despite your explanations to back up your view, many of us remained unconvinced of your viewpoint. NOT because we are stupid, haven't read the books, or are twisting the info, but because we simply disagree.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]i am not dead set on anything - no wait, actually there is something i am dead set on :

arguing against total rewriting or neglecting or denial of existing uncomfortable information or, heaven forbid, trying to invalidate 90% of the information through various made up means just to negate that piece of information - when we dont like it.

That is your conclusion about what is happening here. I don't see it that way. I see Icaro's ideas to be stimulating and worthy of further consideration. He might not be correct on all points, but there is enough here worth further investigation. If even the Bible can have multiple layers of meaning, how much more so would the Law of One? That's not a far-fetched idea at all, but makes perfect sense. So much so, that I'm stunned no one noticed it before!

To insist that such an deep body of work be limited to its face value only, is to potentially miss the gems contained therein.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]ok. then i reinterpret and propose that the 'i am Ra' sentence was prefixed to all of the questions by a negative entity. validate this. i can argue for 4 threads, defending that in the same fashion.

There's no reason to get absurd with this. It's not a black-and-white proposition. No one is suggesting that the ideas be taken to such absurd lengths. That doesn't mean there isn't value here though, in what is being suggested.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]icaro's isnt a theory. it is an attempt to negate a piece of information he doesnt like,

?? You state this as though fact. When, it is just your opinion. You cannot know for certain, what his reasons are, for postulating his theories.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]have you seen any case of a wanderer scenario in the material for any wanderer incarnating in a lower density than its own, into 4d, 5d, or 6d ?

no.

Irrelevant, because unless the question was directly asked, that info wasn't given.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]they are mutually exclusive. otherwise we wouldnt have laws of free will, veils, quarantines and so on. free will of entities in regard to choosing the influences upon them just do not end with 3d.

We're all ONE. We affect one another. It's not possible to not affect others. The quarantine, veil etc. are artificial mechanisms to limit the normal affecting of one another, for a specific reason. That reason is now passing.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]it is still infringing. it is learn/teaching on other entities' behalf. whatever vision 4d entities have, its their honor/duty to realize that vision. not interlopers which think that they should barge in.

No, not at all. It's simply being who we are, and letting our natural inclinations flow, to be accepted or not by others, as they wish.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]excuse me, im not making these up my a$$. in the process of validating the inclinations, you are promptly ignoring a lot of important information that is in the material you are studying, as i demonstrated above. ranging from free will to quarantine to no wanderer phenomenon in densities higher than 3d to learn/teaching with entities in HIGHER densities than 4d happening in sleep periods in 4d.

No, I'm not ignoring those things at all. I simply disagree with your conclusions about those things.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]one would think that the logos of this locale would tighten the veil and introduce various strong measures to prevent entities from so easily being contacted and influenced by even entities dwelling in higher densities than theirs, after the light veil experience in venus - oh wait - logos actually did that.

there must be a reason for that.

That was then. This is now. The situation has changed. Harvest is imminent.

(09-09-2011, 03:58 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]it cannot happen, due to mechanisms of free will. these wont change even when Ra passes away from this octave, or this octave ends.

entities which are yet not even born into a 4d planet which they dont even know that is going to be positive or negative, cannot call other entities pre-emptively to that planet.

?? How can you be so sure about that? There are many soul agreements.

*scene opens in sixth density, sparkling lights all around*

Ra: Are we ready?
Ra: Yes we are ready.
Ra: Let us go.
Ra: They are initiating contact.
Ra: Here we go again!
Ra: Best of luck to us!
Ra: Yes, best of luck.
Ra: Let's try to remain uber humble this time.
Ra: Yes, we will do that.
Ra: Also, let us hope they don't "go there" right off the bat.
Ra: Yes, we would prefer to handle the whole earth changes/prophecies/harvest bit later on.
Ra: It would be least confusing for the seeker to put it at the end.
Ra: Yes. After discussion on the tarot/astrology/sephiroth would be ideal.
Ra: What if we don't get to the end?
Ra: Well, we do know that they will try to interfere, in any case.
Ra: Yes, they will.
Ra: But we also know there is nothing we can do about that.
Ra: Hey everybody! Let's GO already! They are calling!
Ra: OK, we've got the line..
Ra: It is narrower than we expected.
Ra: Everybody else shut up.
[Session One of the Law of One]
Ra: Well, what do we think?
Ra: Overall not bad.
Ra: There seemed to be a fair amount of fear and doubt present though.
Ra: Our love goes out to them.
Ra: Yes, and let us not overlook that they "went there" almost immediately.
Ra: Our light goes out to them.
Ra: And did we see what happened when the tape got flipped?
Ra: Yes, we certainly did.
Ra: They were pretty clever we must admit.
Ra: *sigh* confusion again.
Ra: It is to be expected, as we earlier told ourselves.
Ra: That is true.
Ra: So what shall we do now?
Ra: Hey we've got an idea!

---

unity100 Wrote:ok. then i reinterpret and propose that the 'i am Ra' sentence was prefixed to all of the questions by a negative entity. validate this. i can argue for 4 threads, defending that in the same fashion.

Actually, wouldn't the more correct reply have been: We are Ra?

(09-09-2011, 12:29 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]The negative result is confusion. And is the "foundation rock" of the evidence for why anybody would "dare" to suggest that the material is not 100% pristine, and free from error.

It seems that all but a few who are continuously involved in discussing the harvest have concluded that it is indeed now. So the question is do we continue biting the hook of confusion, only to be reeled into answering the same questions over and over that go no where in an attempt to prove something to someone whose opinion won't change?

Or do we move forward and accept our own conclusions, and start having more meaningful conversation? Honestly, there is no point in proving that the harvest will happen on a specific date. Why? Because if that's true, nothing can be done. But it seems the majority don't believe that to be true, so we should stop bracing ourselves and live in the present.

Quote:I am pointing out that the statement can, in fact, be correctly evaluated to mean something it does not. Why is this possible? Because Ra did not give a clear answer.

Why did Ra do this? I can think of a few possible explanations. And would be interested in investigating them. Perhaps this will be useful to me when I make contact with intelligent infinity, whether 2 months from now, or 2 billion years from now.

I maintain that it has to do with free will and the balance required between positive and negative interaction. When Don asks specific questions, he has fallen prey to the negative manipulation that has been placed on him. Ra must honor this desire and a point is scored on the negative side if you will, with a lack of clarity.

(09-09-2011, 01:03 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Ra: And did we see what happened when the tape got flipped?

I just learned from Jim at homecoming that it wasn't actually the tape getting flipped that distracted Ra/Carla. It was Jim getting home with a load of groceries and proceeding to start to unpack them.

---

(09-09-2011, 01:03 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, wouldn't the more correct reply have been: We are Ra?

Quote:83.27 Questioner: I noticed you started this session with “I communicate now” and you usually use “We communicate now.” Is there any significance or difference with respect to that, and then is there anything that we can do to make the instrument more comfortable or to improve the contact?

Ra: I am Ra. We am Ra. You may see the grammatical difficulties of your linguistic structure in dealing with a social memory complex. There is no distinction between the first person singular and plural in your language when pertaining to Ra.

(09-09-2011, 12:49 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]?? You state this as though fact. When, it is just your opinion. You cannot know for certain, what his reasons are, for postulating his theories.

I have stated several times that I use to interpret the material directly involving an instant harvest, but my opinion changed when I started sorting out my biases and examined the material in a more objective fashion

(09-09-2011, 01:03 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]*scene opens in sixth density, sparkling lights all around*

Ra: Are we ready?
Ra: Yes we are ready.
Ra: Let us go.
Ra: They are initiating contact.
Ra: Here we go again!
Ra: Best of luck to us!
Ra: Yes, best of luck.
Ra: Let's try to remain uber humble this time.
Ra: Yes, we will do that.
Ra: Also, let us hope they don't "go there" right off the bat.
Ra: Yes, we would prefer to handle the whole earth changes/prophecies/harvest bit later on.
Ra: It would be least confusing for the seeker to put it at the end.
Ra: Yes. After discussion on the tarot/astrology/sephiroth would be ideal.
Ra: What if we don't get to the end?
Ra: Well, we do know that they will try to interfere, in any case.
Ra: Yes, they will.
Ra: But we also know there is nothing we can do about that.
Ra: Hey everybody! Let's GO already! They are calling!
Ra: OK, we've got the line..
Ra: It is narrower than we expected.
Ra: Everybody else shut up.
[Session One of the Law of One]
Ra: Well, what do we think?
Ra: Overall not bad.
Ra: There seemed to be a fair amount of fear and doubt present though.
Ra: Yes, and let us not overlook that they "went there" almost immediately.
Ra: And did we see what happened when the tape got flipped?
Ra: Yes, we certainly did.
Ra: They were pretty clever we must admit.
Ra: *sigh* confusion again.
Ra: It is to be expected, as we earlier told ourselves.
Ra: That is true.
Ra: So what shall we do now?
Ra: Hey we've got an idea!

---

That was hilarious!! Thanks for bringing back some humour and light back to this forum ... I was starting to think it'd all become very 'intense'

... well, I suppose we are talking about the harvest of humanity, so you'd expect some intensity!

In terms of the 2011-2012 date, we've got Ra's comments, the Mayan tie-up, but there's another key part that we haven't brought up much on this forum, and that's the crop circle's made in UK with 2012 dates very clearly indicated. David Wilcock does talk about them in the first of his long youtube films, and also there is the famous Mexican reporter who follows UFO news, who states that several key crop circles matched up with the Mayan timelines.

I know there's been a lot of doubt about the validity of crop circles, but also a lot of scientific evidence to indicate a significant part of them are real. This year, the many crop circles were formed in flower fields, which are extremely hard to fake, as human tracks can be seen easily in the fragile formations, and none were found.

(09-09-2011, 01:57 PM)Edinburgh Wrote: [ -> ]That was hilarious!!

Yes, it was!

(09-09-2011, 01:57 PM)Edinburgh Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for bringing back some humour and light back to this forum ... I was starting to think it'd all become very 'intense'

Oh gosh there are lots of threads that are light and fluffy. Check out

(09-09-2011, 01:57 PM)Edinburgh Wrote: [ -> ]... well, I suppose we are talking about the harvest of humanity, so you'd expect some intensity!

Ha, yeah, it's sort of important, eh?

(09-09-2011, 01:57 PM)Edinburgh Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of the 2011-2012 date, we've got Ra's comments, the Mayan tie-up, but there's another key part that we haven't brought up much on this forum, and that's the crop circle's made in UK with 2012 dates very clearly indicated. David Wilcock does talk about them in the first of his long youtube films, and also there is the famous Mexican reporter who follows UFO news, who states that several key crop circles matched up with the Mayan timelines.

I know there's been a lot of doubt about the validity of crop circles, but also a lot of scientific evidence to indicate a significant part of them are real. This year, the many crop circles were formed in flower fields, which are extremely hard to fake, as human tracks can be seen easily in the fragile formations, and none were found.

I don't think there's any doubt about crop circles here on this forum! And neither is there any doubt that 2011-2012 is a significant date. The only doubt is in what form its significance will play out.

Do you have some links to crop circles in flower fields? And those with 2012 references? I've seen the guy in Mexico and he's got some good interpretation. Do you have any recent footage?

---

(09-09-2011, 01:44 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]I have stated several times that I use to interpret the material directly involving an instant harvest, but my opinion changed when I started sorting out my biases and examined the material in a more objective fashion

Yes, you have. What I meant was that I (or anyone else) cannot know the depth of your biases, intentions, motivations, etc., despite whatever you tell us. Not even you know the depth of all subconscious biases. As with all of us. Hence, we all color our interpretations to some degree.

(09-09-2011, 01:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]I just learned from Jim at homecoming that it wasn't actually the tape getting flipped that distracted Ra/Carla. It was Jim getting home with a load of groceries and proceeding to start to unpack them.

Whhaaa? Wait a second. First, please clarify when Jim was unloading groceries as compared to when the tape got flipped? Are you saying these were simultaneous events, or..?

Secondly... you are saying that the groceries being unpacked indeed distracted Ra/Carla. So something outside the circle penetrated inside the circle causing confusion. Is this what you are saying?

Thirdly.. do you mean to say that Jim walked the circle, and then left to go get some groceries while Carla was channeling Ra?! Or...?

Ra Wrote:You may see the grammatical difficulties of your linguistic structure in dealing with a social memory complex.

Precisely. Grammar. Linguistic structure. In other words syntax.

This presents a difficulty when dealing with a social memory complex.

(09-09-2011, 03:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Whhaaa? Wait a second. First, please clarify when Jim was unloading groceries as compared to when the tape got flipped? Are you saying these were simultaneous events, or..?

Secondly... you are saying that the groceries being unpacked indeed distracted Ra/Carla. So something outside the circle penetrated inside the circle causing confusion. Is this what you are saying?

Thirdly.. do you mean to say that Jim walked the circle, and then left to go get some groceries while Carla was channeling Ra?! Or...?

Whoa

(09-09-2011, 03:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Whhaaa? Wait a second. First, please clarify when Jim was unloading groceries as compared to when the tape got flipped? Are you saying these were simultaneous events, or..?

I had added the [tape flipped] to lawofone.info after listening to that session because that's what it sounded like to me. (There is the sound of tapes being flipped about 45 minutes into each session.) However, after Jim said it was him unloading groceries I went back and listened again and I think he's right.

(09-09-2011, 03:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Secondly... you are saying that the groceries being unpacked indeed distracted Ra/Carla. So something outside the circle penetrated inside the circle causing confusion. Is this what you are saying?

I'm not sure that it caused confusion. Ra basically just paused and waited for the noise to stop. (They did the same thing when the telephone rang a little bit later.) Carla wasn't in trance during the first session, and Ra hadn't, of course, given them the circle of one ritual yet, so there was no circle walked. Instead, Carla had challenged Ra in the same way that she challenges every source when she channels consciously.

(09-09-2011, 03:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Thirdly.. do you mean to say that Jim walked the circle, and then left to go get some groceries while Carla was channeling Ra?! Or...?

I'm pretty sure Jim wasn't there when the session started. I don't know if he joined in after he unpacked the groceries. I believe that the session was actually supposed to be a teaching session for Carla's student Leonard and that the only people who were there were Carla, Don, and Leonard.

As far as L/L knew going into the session, it was going to be another conscious channeling session with Hatonn, Latwii, or someone like that. They didn't know Ra would speak instead.

i think i have participated in this discussion enough. there is no point in participating it anymore.

my final word on this subject is i think everyone should be ready for anything from this point on, and soon, not into distant future.

That goes without saying, doesn't it

No kidding...

Richard

(09-09-2011, 06:01 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]No kidding...

Richard

yes. no kidding. everyone is 'aware' of it, everyone pays lip service to it, and when someone comes up with strong pointers to its imminent eventuality, suddenly people forget about it. anything than being in some distant, distant future in a hazy fashion enough to have no potential of disturbing the current setup of self, triggers a lot of stuff.

Who does what now?