Bring4th

So I've got Book 4 open in a browser tab, as well as my "trusty" Rider-Waite deck out on the counter.

Looking at "0 -The Fool" in my deck, I immediately notice five things:

1. The seeker is facing to the left. I understand this to mean "looking to the past".

2. I also see a white dog beckoning at the seeker's foot. White would indicate a positive influence, and while the dog is facing in the same direction as the seeker, it is positioned to the right of the seeker. In other words, the dog is "in the future" relative to the seeker. Also I understand the white dog to be a reference to Sirius.

3. I observe that the body of the seeker is precisely the shape of the Orion constellation in reverse. In addition, the seeker's head is turned in the direction of his right shoulder and looking up with head tilted, whereas in the depiction of the constellation, the seeker's head is turned in the direction of his left shoulder, and pointed to his hand.

4. I notice that the slope of the mountains in behind increased from left to right.

5. The sun is in the upper right hand corner.

Now looking at "22 - The Choice" in Ra's version:

1. The seeker is facing to the right.

2. The seeker has no companion dog, but is depicted as being supported from below.

3. The body no longer depicts the constellation of Orion. The seeker's head is turned over the left shoulder, looking upward. However the angle of the head is diminished as compared to The Fool.

4. The slope of the background scene decreased from left to right.

5. The sun is in the upper left corner, and partially veiled by another body, forming a vesica piscis.


Thoughts?

This is making me want to get into Tarot/read Ra's commentary on Tarot and try to understand what purpose exactly Tarot serves, how it works and why it works, and what purpose it serves.

I've said it many times. I loooove me some archetype discussion.

To answer your question, Tenet, this is my very thought:

Quote:67.30 Questioner: In that case, continue.
Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the first item we shall address is the concept of the spirit used as a shuttle between the roots and the trunk of mind. This is a misapprehension and we shall allow the questioner to consider the function of the spirit further, for in working with the mind we are working within one complex and have not yet attempted to penetrate intelligent infinity. It is well said that archetypes are portions of the One Infinite Creator or aspects of its face. It is, however, far better to realize that the archetypes, while constant in the complex of generative energies offered, do not give the same yield of these complexes to any two seekers. Each seeker will experience each archetype in the characteristics within the complex of the archetype which are most important to it. An example of this would be the observation of the questioner that the Fool is described in such and such a way. One great aspect of this archetype is the aspect of faith, the walking into space without regard for what is to come next. This is, of course, foolish but is part of the characteristic of the spiritual neophyte. That this aspect was not seen may be pondered by the questioner. At this time we shall again request that the query be restated at the next working and we shall at this time cease using this instrument. Before we leave may we ask if there may be any short questions?

0 -The Fool... At which point was the dogs fart? In the future or creeping downwind into the past.

22 -The Choice... The dog was not invited because he ate my homework.

Do not read too much into the tarot cards because Ra was kind enough to often say it's impossible to figure them out. A picture represents a thousand words. Ask some artist what his artwork represents and you'll realize it's all just a bunch of bullsh*t.

(09-10-2011, 10:02 PM)CarlS Wrote: [ -> ]0 -The Fool... At which point was the dogs fart? In the future or creeping downwind into the past.

22 -The Choice... The dog was not invited because he ate my homework.

Do not read too much into the tarot cards because Ra was kind enough to often say it's impossible to figure them out. A picture represents a thousand words. Ask some artist what his artwork represents and you'll realize it's all just a bunch of bullsh*t.

Interesting. So what does your artwork here represent?

LOL. Tenet, behave. It is bullshit. You knew that before asking. Behave

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Be....

Have...

Be....

Have...

(09-10-2011, 10:14 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. Tenet, behave. It is bullshit. You knew that before asking. Behave

... or did I?

3DMonkey Wrote:Be....

Have...

Be....

Have...

Do...

Be...

Do...

Be...

There is a reason that thread only has like 5 responses and why I haven't continued the artwork on it. That crap's like 2 years old! I learned since then the science of numbers and tarot cards using my own means and realized it's all just a bunch of malarky.

Todays lucky lottery numbers are: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Of course I did learn a lot of self discovery and ran into lots of catalysts in the process. I'm just saying that 30 years ago Ra was trying to describe the Tarot cards and from the get go Ra drops a lot of lines about how know one has completely gotten it right and stuff. Just something that hit me hard reading the material which inspired me to do a bunch of artwork. Perhaps I was channeling drawings and info back to Ra in a way the Eye am Ra can see.

I'd post some other drawings I've done since but I'd hate to lead people down the wrong path. Or maybe I should?

View from the moon....in honor of the Grail Launch
[img][/img]

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Or perhaps doom and gloom predictions is more up everyones alley.....


Fear is the mind killer...the spice is life!

These are actually pretty sweet, and I am sure others would enjoy seeing them. I understand what you are saying about the tarot... actually I used to have several decks and books, but most were discarded over a decade ago. I have kept my "trusty" Rider-Waite deck... and had put "trusty" in quotes for a reason.

Actually the reason I had the cards out at all was because I was notified that I appeared to be blocking out certain information in Book 4, and so I began to reread it to see if this was indeed the case.

Also, I think that your artwork and comments closely mimic the sentiment expressed in the quote 3DMonkey offered above. Ra was clear that the archetypes will manifest uniquely in each entity.

But also, they being archetypes and we being sub-logoi it would be exceedingly difficult for an artist to depict anything outside the bounds of the archetypes. Actually now that I think about it that might explain why so many artists are tormented souls. They are frustrated because they realize they can't really create anything truly new! As a sub-logos the best one can do is offer a unique spin on the same old thing.

Wow... that kind of sucks.

Anyway, do you have one that is bright and sunny, and bubbling with joy? I could use a peek at that.

Yes we artist are tormented. Creativity can be a curse and thinking outside the box will make you wish the box was never invented. I enjoyed reading about the tarots and archetypes but everyone here seems to take things too seriously. You had me at 0- The Fool.....you should know from the get go just based off the name of the card that something about it is meant to fool you. It's like the Joker in the deck of Hoyle. I personally just think the Tarot cards have been made obsolete. Why would you want to try to use something from back in the ancient pyramid days when we don't even know how the pyramids were made? Poured concrete is my guess.

And yes I have something sunny. I've been to burningman a few times and when they burn things like the Temple and the Man there will be smoke tornado's that spin off from the heat. They call them Ancients. So here is a vortex on a sunny day. Of course it could destroy trailer parks or wreak havoc on a plastic bag but to witness one is something to behold.

Carl, the 2nd picture is actually really relaxing to me. I enjoy dark colors.

It reminds me of the Livejournal community Urban Decay: http://urban-decay.livejournal.com/

If you're a member you'll be able to view the pics. I don't really go there anymore because of all the ads.

CarlS, excellent pictures, especially the Vortex and what appears to be... a volcano? Am I correct in assuming such?

Tenet Nosce, may I ask what impact exactly Tarot has had upon your life and what usages it serves for you?

(09-11-2011, 02:25 PM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Tenet Nosce, may I ask what impact exactly Tarot has had upon your life and what usages it serves for you?

Yes, and thank you for the request. In December 1999, I summarized my understanding of of the Tarot thusly:

Quote:0. There is plenty of nothing for everyone.

1. Though things change they forever remain the same.

2. All men are equal creators.

3. The cause is within the effect.

4. Surrendering control is powerful.

5. Moderate moderation.

6. A life lived in service is truly free.

7. Expect the unexpected.

8. If you love something, let it go.

9. Lead and others will follow.

Later, in 2003-2004 I had a summer job reading Tarot cards for guests at a resort in Scottsdale, AZ. My experiences with this work led me to believe that most people considered the Tarot as a method of divination, rather than as a method of self-awareness. This was evidenced by the majority of people's questions boiling down to: "Tell me what to do" and being disappointed when I refused to honor such a request.

That was pretty much the last time I used Tarot cards on any regular basis.

How glad I am that I can participate in this thread!

I have comments for both Tenet and Carl.

Tenet, what strikes me most about these two decks is their origins. Whereas Ra states right out that the deck in the Law of One was given by Ra to the Egyptian priests (though, I imagine they certainly added their own biases to it), the Rider-Waite deck must have come from Waite's own personal connection to Intelligent Infinity. It is for this reason that I give more credence to the very specific symbols in the Egyptian deck than I do to the Rider-Waite deck. With all Tarot decks except the Egyptian, my practice has been to seek the intended feeling of the card rather than the precise symbolism.

That said, my grasp of the Choice card can be expressed thus: This card represents the entity fully committed to seeking one of the two paths. In this sense, the entity must completely release the other path, which will give that entity the appearance of foolishness. For in this world, common believe suggests that wisdom makes use of both STS and STO principles: give, but protect yours and your own; love your friends, but hate your enemies; release your inhibitions, but only sometimes; etc. To polarize is foolish to everyone who does not so choose. This card is also a unifying card (as Ra points out), and as such it can be seen as representing the mind/body/spirit complex totality and its journey rather than an a single part of it or a single picture of its evolution (note: consider that the Significator cards can be seen as representing the mind, body and spirit complexes individually, while the other 18 cards can be seen as the movements and growth patterns within the mind, body and spirit complexes). I think that this card is appropriately placed that both the beginning and the end of the deck because one begins a naive fool and ends a wise fool.

As far as the specific symbols of Ra's card:

1. As always, in our illusion, the left-hand path (your right, the seeker's left) is easier to see. This world is very difficult and it is easy to think that only path of growth is to let go of all love for others and simply gain for oneself. The message Christ taught is not an obvious one and it takes examples like him to get anyone to believe that it really works.

2. I think there is actually a crocodile in this card instead of a dog. This croc has its mouth open and is pictured to the seeker's left (your right). The croc is often thought of as very aggressive in Egyptian symbolism, which brings out the foolish nature of the seeker. Either he has no idea what crocodiles do or he knows something that we don't. Think of the late Crocodile Hunter -- that man was a fool and eventually got eaten by a very physical yet very metaphorical crocodile. The support from below (rather than a precipice) seems to underline the comedic nature of 3-d experience. It seems tragic to those who are not foolish and it seems comedic to those who are. Turns out the foolish got this one right. You're not going to fall off the cliff; the worst that will happen if you fall is you hit the ground -- of course, the crocodile can be seen as taking on the same kind of symbolism as the cliff, so this point could be somewhat moot.

3. I don't really understand what you are saying on this one.

4. This suggests to me the downhill nature of the path of seeking. The further you go, the more energy you have to commit to this path. Think of the "Law of Squares" or the Law of Doubling (in our mathematical system): each step doubles the total metaphysical inertia the seeker has.

5. The most obvious aspect of the sun/eclipse symbol is the choice between light and dark. Anyone who looks at this card in connection to the Ra Material can see this. The vesica piscis, however, is robust with the most sublime of symbolism. It is worth mentioning that this shape is found prominently in the flower of life, suggesting great mathematical import here.


CarlS: Ra's proclamations of "O student!" during the archetype discussions suggest to me that Ra gets great pleasure out of the opportunity to teach these archetypes. This suggests that the Archetypes are where Ra wanted to go all along, but Ra was waiting for Don to show some interest.

So consider the fact that every single person in the world understands love differently. Do we therefore not speak about love? On the contrary, it is one of the most written about aspects of human experience. We may all have access to different facets of the archetypes, but this does not render discussion thereof to be worthless. Rather, it is only a qualifier which one must keep in mind: Beware that in exploring the Archetypical Mind, you are not going to find the One Absolute Truth. You will only get a perspective of the Truth of this particular Logos.

For what it's worth, Carl, I've been exploring Ra's concepts of these archetypes for some time now and the more I explore them, the more I find that this is not bullshit at all. My way of describing and viewing these archetypes may be unique, but that doesn't mean I can't shed light on them for others as Ra has shed light on them for me. Hell, every teacher's method is unique regardless of the subject. Is not history all bullshit in the same sense? And psychology? And sociology? Even science is bullshit because scientists will only find what they are looking for.

I'd love to talk more bullshit if anyone is interested, by the way. ;-)

(09-11-2011, 09:10 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: [ -> ]How glad I am that I can participate in this thread!

Thanks for being here! You have made some very interesting insights which I would like to ponder further. However I did want to respond to a couple of things quickly.

Quote:Tenet, what strikes me most about these two decks is their origins. Whereas Ra states right out that the deck in the Law of One was given by Ra to the Egyptian priests (though, I imagine they certainly added their own biases to it), the Rider-Waite deck must have come from Waite's own personal connection to Intelligent Infinity. It is for this reason that I give more credence to the very specific symbols in the Egyptian deck than I do to the Rider-Waite deck. With all Tarot decks except the Egyptian, my practice has been to seek the intended feeling of the card rather than the precise symbolism.

I am not a tarot history buff... however from what I see so far what he have received as the Rider-Waite tarot is actually based on Ra's version, so many thousands of years ago. I am not sure durring which of the Ra contacts this occurred, but according to my understanding the last contact before L/L Research was with Akhenaten circa 1300BC.

The (3 x 7) + 1 configuration of the cards was actually previously known (before Rider-Waite) as the Tarot of Marseilles... although if you dig further on that you will see that this was handed down from an even older tradition. As it turns out, the individual who coined the term "Tarot of Marseilles", known as Gerard Encausse (Papus) played a role in the distortion of other teachings at the end of the 19th century.

These distortions eventually became the occult base of the Nazis under Hitler.

That's all I've dug up for now.

JustLikeYou Wrote:3. I don't really understand what you are saying on this one.

Firstly- it strikes me as odd that the body of the Fool in the Rider-Waite deck is not only in the precise shape of the Orion constellation, but it also the mirror image.

Secondly- I think there is some significance to the head positioning (both in the vertical and horizontal planes) as I pointed out... but I haven't really landed on what it signifies.

CarlS whose is that picture"!?????????????????????? it makes me feel like a s*** artist!

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i meant the squid. wow that seahorse is amazing!!!

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Burning Man was a horrible movie. i'm a manlover. i wouldn't care if it was Burning Woman.

Thank you, Tenet. I would love to hear your commentary when you have sufficiently pondered mine.

I don't mean to discount the Rider-Waite deck. I am certain that his drawings are based on the original Egyptian drawings, which can be seen from the many similarities. Rather, I only mean to draw attention to the fact that there are some significant changes in this deck from the Egyptian deck. The Fool card is one of those significant changes, as are the Lovers, Justice (no creatures), and the Sun. These cards reflect Waite's own vision of the Archetypes. As such, their quality reflects the quality of Waite's own contact with the Archetypes. Because I know nothing else of Waite's perception of the Law of One (I admittedly haven't done any research), I do not know it's quality as well as I know the quality of the contact in the Law of One. For this reason, I lend much more weight to these cards. Unfortunately, there are still many features of the Brotherhood of Light deck that make me wonder whether they are original or contributed by Zain's perspective -- a perspective which, recall, is difficult for me to comprehend with any clarity.