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Full Version: Student response to UCDavis Chancellor after Occupy abuse (video)
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I couldn't help but be touched by this in some small way...

Here is a video of UC-Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi walking to her car in midst of hundreds of silent, onlooking student protesters. Katehi had authorized the increase in force that had police officers violently abusing non-violent student protesters a few days ago.

The crowd had gathered after a press conference in the afternoon, but Katehi refused to leave while they were still gathered, implying she was being held hostage. After multiple hours of waiting and some encouragement from some student reps who got the protesters to sit and lock arms. Regardless, their silence is probably the most powerful thing they could have given her.



I feel this is somewhat poignant in that the shame and the weight of her decision is palpable. Talk about catalyst! I bet that lady went home and had a looooooong bath that night. I wonder if this is part of the 4D world manifesting? This seems like a very loving response in it's own way. They are giving her a lot to think about and all the opportunities in the world for her to take responsibility rather than keep perpetuating the prideful ego stuff... Anyways, just thought I would share Tongue
that's pretty smart. BigSmile

3DMonkey

That's spooky.

I'm not familiar with the story.

Looks like both sides got what they wanted, lol.
(11-20-2011, 07:21 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]That's spooky.

I'm not familiar with the story.

Looks like both sides got what they wanted, lol.

The 'shocking' aspects are a picture of a policeman flippantly pepper-spraying a seated, peaceful protester. The other is both video and reports that certain policeman forced open mouths and sprayed down throats and such, as the students would not get up and move. Just a blatant overreaction once again by police.

I find it interesting that they honed in on the shame with this lady tho... are our protests maturing in front of our eyes?
(11-20-2011, 12:03 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]are our protests maturing in front of our eyes?
Our standards for maturity are so low we look for the most basic social behavior as divine example.
that's true, Zen.

she's hot. it makes her look innocent. she looks so scared and sad.
(11-20-2011, 12:39 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-20-2011, 12:03 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]are our protests maturing in front of our eyes?
Our standards for maturity are so low we look for the most basic social behavior as divine example.

Is "maturity" not just a way to put ourselves above others? To not accept their behavior because it's not what we agree with, are used to, or how we act ourselves? The elite "mature" and the unrespectable "immature."
well i think the silence was to show they're not scary and thus highlighting any malicious intent accusers might have. you can't accuse a silent mob of being out of control.
I agree Ocean. "Malicious" or "not malicious" would be discernment, and these protesters demonstrated that they were not malicious in their intent. When talking about societal "standards for maturity," it seems more like judgement than discernment to me.

Unless we're talking about physical or spiritual maturity, but then, where do "our standards" come from?
I guess what I meant is that I see this as the cracking or fading of the 3D world. There is no confusion in this act, like Oceania says. The message and the intent are very clear, and the end result is found in a very potent shame. I see it as more of a 4D response than a 3D in that it is rooted in love for others as well as Ms. Katehi. I'm sure she had no idea this would be what would happen when she allowed the police to escalate their tactics; that being said, karma's a b****. I feel she is not being given the usual tools to ignore the catalyst (persecution, victimization) and must deal with her decision to prioritize petty rules over the health and well-being of her student faculty to which she is pledged to serve. This is just my interpretation of it, anyways... I will admit that I am actively watching for 4D to start to crack from the cocoon, as i'm sure someone will likely point out... :p
(11-20-2011, 01:58 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]Is "maturity" not just a way to put ourselves above others? To not accept their behavior because it's not what we agree with, are used to, or how we act ourselves? The elite "mature" and the unrespectable "immature."
It is one of many potential ways one could create a class system, if that was the desired aim. On the other hand, maturity is the strikingly inevitable consequence of development here, both from the standpoint of one life or of many lives.

(11-20-2011, 03:03 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]Unless we're talking about physical or spiritual maturity, but then, where do "our standards" come from?
Standards come from experience. The same evaluation from observation which notices the differences in behavior from adolescence to adult-hood, notices in what manner others can be, may be and are treated.

I guess I'm still a bit confused with your original comment then, Zenmaster.

Peaceful civil disobedience met with brutal violence, which in turn is met with more peaceful expression, seems to me like a very high level of maturity on the protesters part, since my own personal observation would set the "societal standard" for maturity to meet violence with violence. It is even what the moral backbone of our society is built upon, our justice system, which often attempts to meet violent offense with equal punishment. Judges being seen as an unmoved pillar of maturity, these protesters remaining peaceful in the face of brutal assault soars above that in maturity, exceeding "basic social behavior" in my eyes. What would you consider a more mature response to assaults such as the UC Davis incident?


----

Unless that's essentially what you're referring to? Don't know why I'm having a difficult time understanding.
(11-20-2011, 10:48 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]Don't know why I'm having a difficult time understanding
I don't know either. The comment wasn't about what is "more mature", it was about expectations.
I guess in my eyes, responding to brutality with peace exceeds expectations and we can't go much further than that as far as spiritual maturity.

---

Don't feel the need to clarify.
Silence is golden!
shouted Ruth

3DMonkey

I'm going to be very honest. What I saw in the video was passive aggressiveness. I said spooky, because it was fear invoking for the lady walking. Who wants to be in that position she was in? I know I don't. So, why would I want to put her in that position. I know I don't.
If I were there, my instinct would be to walk by her side.
i think you projected that passive aggressiveness.
(11-21-2011, 11:02 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I said spooky, because it was fear invoking for the lady walking.

She was asked if she felt threatened and she said no.

Quote:Who wants to be in that position she was in? I know I don't.

You're essentially asking "Who wants to confront their shame?" Of course it's uncomfortable to own up to such actions. It would be natural not want to feel uncomfortable. We've all done things we aren't proud of and we inevitably have to own up to it.


Where is the aggressive in the passive aggressive? The students are expressing their disapproval of her unnecessary call for force to restrict their freedom of peaceful expression. Would you prefer that they thank her for giving the command which led the police to brutalize other students, or perhaps simply ignore the brutality? Would you feel more comfortable if they were shouting at her?

3DMonkey

Oh. C'mon now. Put your self in her shoes. That's all I'm saying. John Coffy comes to mind. "like bees stinging me".

I dunno how she felt. I know how I'd feel.
(11-21-2011, 01:55 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2011, 11:02 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I said spooky, because it was fear invoking for the lady walking.

She was asked if she felt threatened and she said no.

Quote:Who wants to be in that position she was in? I know I don't.

You're essentially asking "Who wants to confront their shame?" Of course it's uncomfortable to own up to such actions. It would be natural not want to feel uncomfortable. We've all done things we aren't proud of and we inevitably have to own up to it.


Where is the aggressive in the passive aggressive? The students are expressing their disapproval of her unnecessary call for force to restrict their freedom of peaceful expression. Would you prefer that they thank her for giving the command which led the police to brutalize other students, or perhaps simply ignore the brutality? Would you feel more comfortable if they were shouting at her?

Its never that cut and dried in situations like this. You're watching a video and drawing conclusions based on your own biases. Were all the police brutal? We're all her actions self serving? Was there love in every action and thought of every student?

Or were they taking great satisfaction in causing someone fear or shame? Or was the woman in question, taking joy that the situation got out of hand and she had be brutal..or was she saddened that things go to this point, but felt the need to put on a face for the press and the world?

The whole situation appears to be a mish-mash of human emotion and action. Something that got out of hand by individuals making a personal decision and the blame falls on someone who issued orders that were mis-interpreted.

But who must shoulder the blame because thats the way humans seem to be wired. There is a lot of judgment on both sides being thrown around.

So mnay gray areas....

Richard
Here is the video for reference material. Warning: will be unsettling for most, do not play if it makes you uncomfortable.


(11-21-2011, 10:43 AM)Ruth Wrote: [ -> ]Silence is golden!
BigSmileBigSmileHeartAngel
[Image: silence.jpg]

3DMonkey

Hmm. It's not so unsettling. I dunno. What did they expect? I wouldn't be sitting there, and I wouldn't be spraying them. I dunno. Maybe I'm just different than all of them.
I'm like, you all chose that, so.... Huh
(11-21-2011, 11:02 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to be very honest. What I saw in the video was passive aggressiveness.
Possible. Also a possible "staged" aspect where creation of such contrast to frame a shame-effect would be contrived for the media.

3DMonkey

Oh. That "staged" aspect is all too real.

When a local nuclear power plant opened, I happen to know a few town officials that described the account as a few individuals ("protestors") that filled the camera frame, waited for their cue (all of five full minutes), then packed up and left. I think I know "staged".
(11-21-2011, 10:14 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I think I know "staged".
"The key to balance may then be seen in the unstudied, spontaneous, and honest response of entities toward experiences,"

3DMonkey

(11-21-2011, 10:19 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2011, 10:14 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I think I know "staged".
"The key to balance may then be seen in the unstudied, spontaneous, and honest response of entities toward experiences,"

" This is why the... rotational speed of the energy centers is not considered above the balanced aspect... of an entity in regarding harvestability;"
:exclamation:
"Each acceptance smoothes part of the many distortions that the faculty you call judgment engenders."
---
Nomustard, 3DM, Nomustard.

3DMonkey

"The third discipline of the mind is a repetition of the first but with the gaze outward towards the fellow entities that it meets."

Meets? "What, no mustard?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DdkP6U4WjY

'OMG, the monkey jumped'

(11-21-2011, 06:43 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Its never that cut and dried in situations like this. You're watching a video and drawing conclusions based on your own biases.

Ah, yes, isn't that what we always do, as long as bias is present?

Quote:Were all the police brutal? We're all her actions self serving? Was there love in every action and thought of every student?
No, no, no.

Quote:Or were they taking great satisfaction in causing someone fear or shame? Or was the woman in question, taking joy that the situation got out of hand and she had be brutal..or was she saddened that things go to this point, but felt the need to put on a face for the press and the world?
I'm sure that some of them got some satisfaction in inducing the shame, feeling like they were doing some sort of justice rather than expressing their discontent. However, I don't think that she was either joyful nor saddened. She did initially support the actions of the police officers. She was the one who ordered increased force on peaceful protesters.

Quote:The whole situation appears to be a mish-mash of human emotion and action. Something that got out of hand by individuals making a personal decision and the blame falls on someone who issued orders that were mis-interpreted.
I don't think the orders were misinterpreted. Like I said, she initially supported the actions of the police officers.

Quote:But who must shoulder the blame because thats the way humans seem to be wired. There is a lot of judgment on both sides being thrown around.
It might be about finding someone to blame for many people, but is complacency going to solve anything? Is expressing discontent for the way peers are are treated, for what was essentially a forceful silencing of peaceful expression, wrong? She is the one who gave the order, she is the one who defended the actions of the police officers, so of course one would think that, to stop that kind of behavior, she is the one we go to to express discontent.
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