In order to allow the mechanisms of Free Will to function (thus allowing a purity of experience for the life experiences of each spirit) it is imperative that a veil be placed which causes one to forget that they are indeed the Creator. Were there no such system in place an immense spiritual stagnation would occur as any thoughts, words or deeds enacted would constantly and consistently be dictated by the full and complete knowledge that the series of interactions one is involved in are all occurring in, of, by, and due to the One Infinite Creator being present within all things.
While this notion is not at all undesirable, it would produce an impediment in anybody's path as the choices made would not be of an entirely willing nature; rather, it would be done because no other option would be available as no entity fully aware of its true nature would dare incite disharmony. There would be a radical diminishing of any lessons any would hope to further refine. What can possibly be gained when there is only one option available?
However, when one is presented with a multitude of choices, unbeknownst what the "right" choice is or that there even is an absolute "right" choice, it facilitates the opportunity for the entity to go forward with what resonates most genuinely at the core of their being, sans any particular prior knowledge which would interfere or influence said decision/action. The choice one makes while being subjected to the notion that this world is all that there is, with no immediate proof stating otherwise and an illusion which incorporates as one of its primary distortions the notion of separation between the self and otherself, and nothing but the person's own biases acquired in this lifetime to help mold their action is a completely genuine one.
Thus it must be that fledgling souls must submit this portion of its existence to metaphysical amnesia, quarantined, confused, lost, flung into a strange land with no apparent purpose or any specific destination to head towards, so that it can be observed and proven with voluntary absolution that it wishes to make the choice it is meant to make in this lifetime before it may continue on its path to reintegration into the Godhead which it stems from. The manner of seeking and movement towards the One is entirely up to the soul (again, thanks to the veil of forgetfulness which sustains the existence of Free Will), it may be a vertiginous and rigid voyage or a tranquil one, but regardless of the path chosen each entity will undergo the experiences it requires and desires (though it does not know that it truly wishes for these experiences, even the seemingly nightmareish ones) until it has reached a point of understanding of the hidden lessons the Universe attempts to show it based on how the soul has shaped itself at any moment and is able to fully realize its divine essence, bask in it, radiate it, and eventually comprehend totally that the soul IS divine essence.
What a divine paradox it is, that in order for us to truly remember, we must first forget everything and start over. And yet, it is the modus operandi of our world, and once one has penetrated the veil all things become crystal clear.
Excellent post and summary. I will be using this to shed light with other people. Thankyou.
It is so hard to portray your meaning in words to other people, how do you describe the description-less. We don't understand what you wrote because of the words but more-so the feelings and memories consciously or sub-consciously those words produce.
How do you describe this to someone who is not aware of those feelings. Thinking about my own journey and the truths I have learnt and how I have learnt them makes the task even more daunting.
Ra speaks an excellent analogy on this subject. The Poker Game...
Quote:Questioner: Can you expand on the concept which is that it is necessary for an entity, during incarnation in the physical as we know it, to become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when the entity is aware of what he wants to do. Why must he come into an incarnation and lose conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way in which he hopes to act?
Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.
In time/space and in the true color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.
Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin—and we stress begin—to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.
You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love, can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit being-ness totality.
Thank you for this excellent explanation, godwide.
(12-14-2011, 02:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]However, when one is presented with a multitude of choices, unbeknownst what the "right" choice is or that there even is an absolute "right" choice, it facilitates the opportunity for the entity to go forward with what resonates most genuinely at the core of their being, sans any particular prior knowledge which would interfere or influence said decision/action.
The poker analogy implies that no choice is absolutely right, because as 3Ders bumble around, any choice made will result in a rainbow of happiness and catalysis. A "right" choice that causes bundles of happiness is kinda good, but a "wrong" choice that causes catalysts galore ultimately delivers the most experience, which is a major point of 3D existence.
Heck, even the "ultimate" Choice of STS or STO delivers catalysts, doesn't it?
(12-15-2011, 01:37 AM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]Heck, even the "ultimate" Choice of STS or STO delivers catalysts, doesn't it?
It's not just the catalysts (opportunities), it's the awareness of that catalyst, and then the use of "faith" and "will" to choose, which is important. The more aware, the less are needed and those needed are less harsh (inevitable suffering). And of course, the faster the lessons are learned.
There are misunderstandings or certain attachments which are cultivated and result in a need for more catalyst than would otherwise be necessary. Indeed, we develop special skills to ignore that which "assaults our senses". Yes, the elaborate conspiracy-theory weaving, appeal to impotence, is one.
Catalyst, as spoken by Ra, is Dukkha, as spoken by Buddha. Both speak of one and the same thing, suffering. It's not about how much the catalyst affects one; it's about how much one has moved towards faith and is unmoved by the suffering.
If you think the veil is impressive, look into understanding the 'complex'. When you come to the realization that every time you make one single choice, all the possibilities are also created, like the finite branches of a tree, where the higher self is one trunk, and each choice is but a branch of possibility, that each, due to the veil, are aware of. Playing out in unison, like unseen branches, all with a finite ending just like the incarnate branch each are currently on. Each is both positive and negative, and these incarnate experiences are played out to ascertain to what extent this is so, when eventually the choice becomes known.
(12-15-2011, 01:37 AM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2011, 02:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]However, when one is presented with a multitude of choices, unbeknownst what the "right" choice is or that there even is an absolute "right" choice, it facilitates the opportunity for the entity to go forward with what resonates most genuinely at the core of their being, sans any particular prior knowledge which would interfere or influence said decision/action.
The poker analogy implies that no choice is absolutely right, because as 3Ders bumble around, any choice made will result in a rainbow of happiness and catalysis. A "right" choice that causes bundles of happiness is kinda good, but a "wrong" choice that causes catalysts galore ultimately delivers the most experience, which is a major point of 3D existence.
Heck, even the "ultimate" Choice of STS or STO delivers catalysts, doesn't it?
I'm aware that there is no truly "right" choice in the grand scheme of things and in the end, the entire Universe is conspiring to ensure that each and every entity reaches pure joy; when I spoke of "right" choice, I meant the right choice for this density. The main lesson for people to refine here and work towards is love, so the most right choice would be choose to polarize towards that love in order to transcend metempsychosis with ease and grace. It's not to say that those of the STS path and lukewarms are not wrong in any choice they make (as all is permitted) but in retrospect it'd be much better to make the choice of love while we are in this incarnation.
All difficulties and obstacles are more than welcome and greatly appreciated, for they allow for growth and learning in the first place. However, when one has little to no more lessons to learn or distortions to smooth out, the remaining catalyst in one's live is paved free for one to do as they desire in whatever service they have chosen. zenmaster explained this spot-on.
(12-15-2011, 02:23 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]It's not just the catalysts (opportunities), it's the awareness of that catalyst, and then the use of "faith" and "will" to choose, which is important. The more aware, the less are needed and those needed are less harsh (inevitable suffering). And of course, the faster the lessons are learned.
Karma is something that still confuses me. Is it because of the veil that karma exist? Or can karma be developed in other densities above 3d? And if so, is it related to 3D when this occurs? (like when Ra was in Egypt walking among natives there? they were 6D but now are still trying to undue some of the mistakes they made)
My personal view of Karma is that it's our own pre-incarn programming. The veil keeps us from remembering that we even had a previous life, but we can pre-program the tendencies that (we hope) will get us into situations that will benefit ourselves (and the One).
Ra can see enough of their history to make adjustments in a conscious way, and thus Karma doesn't apply.
This is just me. I don't claim advanced insight or knowledge regarding this subject.
(12-20-2011, 01:27 PM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]My personal view of Karma is that it's our own pre-incarn programming. The veil keeps us from remembering that we even had a previous life, but we can pre-program the tendencies that (we hope) will get us into situations that will benefit ourselves (and the One).
Ra can see enough of their history to make adjustments in a conscious way, and thus Karma doesn't apply.
This is just me. I don't claim advanced insight or knowledge regarding this subject.
You are right, that related to Ra's actions is not karma since it was the opposite on an act of conscious non-love.
It appears to be mainly actions in 3D. However, the Ra material is not very clear on this (for me), then if it is veil related, pertains to 3D. If it is more than that, it could apply to 4D as well. 5d and early 6D's negative dealings in 3D to accommodate passage to mid 6D being a different form of "karma" mainly to do with balancing since positive 6D will also need balancing.
"The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick, Interviewed by Eric Nordern, Playboy (Sept 1968)
90.21 I am Ra. That which you say is correct upon its own merits, but is not a repetition of our statement. Our suggestion was that within the experiential nexus of each entity within its second-density environment and within the roots of mind there were placed biases indicating to the watchful eye the more efficient of the two paths. Let us say, for want of a more precise adjective, that this Logos has a bias towards kindness.
My favorite thing about the Veil would be related to Atheists & Death: One Moment They Know "There is NO Creator" and then the next moment They Know "I AM the Creator"
Makes me laugh every time I imagine the look on my Atheist friend's faces once they get to the other side. Too bad we'll all be too nice over there to tell them "I told you so!"
(12-14-2011, 02:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]In order to allow the mechanisms of Free Will to function (thus allowing a purity of experience for the life experiences of each spirit) it is imperative that a veil be placed which causes one to forget that they are indeed the Creator. Were there no such system in place an immense spiritual stagnation would occur as any thoughts, words or deeds enacted would constantly and consistently be dictated by the full and complete knowledge that the series of interactions one is involved in are all occurring in, of, by, and due to the One Infinite Creator being present within all things.
This was addressed by Ra in regards of pre-veil experiences. Before the choice of two paths got introduced=veil, there was only one choice which entities of that time were also fully aware of, and still not making that choice, due - and here, both Don and Ra, used the analogy of electrical power, the need of both the negative and positive poles, in order for, for instance the light bulb to work, or work in consciousness to be done.
godwide_void Wrote:While this notion is not at all undesirable, it would produce an impediment in anybody's path as the choices made would not be of an entirely willing nature; rather, it would be done because no other option would be available as no entity fully aware of its true nature would dare incite disharmony. There would be a radical diminishing of any lessons any would hope to further refine. What can possibly be gained when there is only one option available?
Well, we were divinely happy, then it got boring in the paradise, so we changed it.
And we are still complaining!
godwide_void Wrote:Thus it must be that fledgling souls must submit this portion of its existence to metaphysical amnesia, quarantined, confused, lost, flung into a strange land with no apparent purpose or any specific destination to head towards, so that it can be observed and proven with voluntary absolution that it wishes to make the choice it is meant to make in this lifetime before it may continue on its path to reintegration into the Godhead which it stems from.
Young co-Creators make the choice in third density behind the veil. What is interesting then is that the veil is lifted in 4D, and co-Creators become aware of the Creator/intelligent infinity in all things/beings, but those in 4D- still see only the self as the Creator, despite the veil is now lifted? So I guess that not all seen as soon as veil is off then.
godwide_void Wrote:The manner of seeking and movement towards the One is entirely up to the soul (again, thanks to the veil of forgetfulness which sustains the existence of Free Will), it may be a vertiginous and rigid voyage or a tranquil one, but regardless of the path chosen each entity will undergo the experiences it requires and desires (though it does not know that it truly wishes for these experiences, even the seemingly nightmareish ones) until it has reached a point of understanding of the hidden lessons the Universe attempts to show it based on how the soul has shaped itself at any moment and is able to fully realize its divine essence, bask in it, radiate it, and eventually comprehend totally that the soul IS divine essence.
I loved this realization of this part of the creation/Creator!
godwide_void Wrote:What a divine paradox it is, that in order for us to truly remember, we must first forget everything and start over. And yet, it is the modus operandi of our world, and once one has penetrated the veil all things become crystal clear.
This is you (=a tiny part of the Creator) trying to know/understand/becoming aware of Itself.
(12-14-2011, 02:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]In order to allow the mechanisms of Free Will to function (thus allowing a purity of experience for the life experiences of each spirit) it is imperative that a veil be placed which causes one to forget that they are indeed the Creator. Were there no such system in place an immense spiritual stagnation would occur as any thoughts, words or deeds enacted would constantly and consistently be dictated by the full and complete knowledge that the series of interactions one is involved in are all occurring in, of, by, and due to the One Infinite Creator being present within all things.
While this notion is not at all undesirable, it would produce an impediment in anybody's path as the choices made would not be of an entirely willing nature; rather, it would be done because no other option would be available as no entity fully aware of its true nature would dare incite disharmony. There would be a radical diminishing of any lessons any would hope to further refine. What can possibly be gained when there is only one option available?
However, when one is presented with a multitude of choices, unbeknownst what the "right" choice is or that there even is an absolute "right" choice, it facilitates the opportunity for the entity to go forward with what resonates most genuinely at the core of their being, sans any particular prior knowledge which would interfere or influence said decision/action. The choice one makes while being subjected to the notion that this world is all that there is, with no immediate proof stating otherwise and an illusion which incorporates as one of its primary distortions the notion of separation between the self and otherself, and nothing but the person's own biases acquired in this lifetime to help mold their action is a completely genuine one.
Thus it must be that fledgling souls must submit this portion of its existence to metaphysical amnesia, quarantined, confused, lost, flung into a strange land with no apparent purpose or any specific destination to head towards, so that it can be observed and proven with voluntary absolution that it wishes to make the choice it is meant to make in this lifetime before it may continue on its path to reintegration into the Godhead which it stems from. The manner of seeking and movement towards the One is entirely up to the soul (again, thanks to the veil of forgetfulness which sustains the existence of Free Will), it may be a vertiginous and rigid voyage or a tranquil one, but regardless of the path chosen each entity will undergo the experiences it requires and desires (though it does not know that it truly wishes for these experiences, even the seemingly nightmareish ones) until it has reached a point of understanding of the hidden lessons the Universe attempts to show it based on how the soul has shaped itself at any moment and is able to fully realize its divine essence, bask in it, radiate it, and eventually comprehend totally that the soul IS divine essence.
What a divine paradox it is, that in order for us to truly remember, we must first forget everything and start over. And yet, it is the modus operandi of our world, and once one has penetrated the veil all things become crystal clear.
You sound like you are a latter day saint ?
With any game there are rules to achieve a win, such is life.
Life is the biggest game we will ever play as the stakes are eternal.
No entity or spiritual being before they came to this earth in the flesh had ever played this game and although they agreed that they wanted to
play the game and had some concept of what the rules would be, they had never actually experienced it first hand. And so coming to earth to play this game for an eternal prize was how they would achieve this. The game was about having enough faith in God to choose good over evil. So what is FAITH Alma 32:21 Now concerning faith, faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things, therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen which are true. So its not to have a perfect knowledge of something but if you believe it to be true then you will exercise your faith and do it, and this was the whole reason that we would be caused not to remember our pre mortal life. We could exercise our faith and play the game, according to the rules we were given in the rule book being the scriptures and the directions of our coach which was and is Jesus Christ. If we had a perfect knowledge of everything we could not exercise our faith and we could not learn and grow as individuals.
(12-14-2011, 08:11 AM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]Ra speaks an excellent analogy on this subject. The Poker Game...
Quote:Questioner: Can you expand on the concept which is that it is necessary for an entity, during incarnation in the physical as we know it, to become polarized or interact properly with other entities and why this isn’t possible in between incarnations when the entity is aware of what he wants to do. Why must he come into an incarnation and lose conscious memory of what he wants to do and then act in a way in which he hopes to act?
Ra: I am Ra. Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.
In time/space and in the true color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.
Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin—and we stress begin—to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.
You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love, can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit being-ness totality.
(12-30-2011, 06:37 AM)michaelangelo Wrote: [ -> ]Life is the biggest game we will ever play as the stakes are eternal.
I do not make light of your response above, but wish to offer another perspective in regards to "stakes".
A single incarnate experience contains only a risk of switching polarities or delaying the individual mbs complex master cycle harvestability due to karmic responsibility, and as such, repetition in it's own terms, is quite acceptable and really inconsequential, "but the blink of an eye" to that which is infinite and eternal.
Even a third density master cycle of ~76,875 years in itself is really quite insignificant when it comes to length of time, in comparison to all other densities. Take fourth density, for example. It is 30 million years if harmonious. Fifth and sixth are even longer, minimally 75 million years, though in the higher densities there is the ability for social memory complex to be harvestable at any time within a cycle, if advanced enough.
As Don stated...
Quote:76.15 Questioner: Then we have a third density that is, comparatively speaking, the twinkling of an eye, the snap of a finger in time compared to the others. Why is the third density cycled so extremely rapidly compared to the first and second?
Ra: I am Ra. The third density is a choice.
Right at the beginning of the Ra book
In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
We choose this experiences as an alternative then simply being what we already are.
Our amusement is infinite.
(01-01-2012, 06:54 AM)drifting pages Wrote: [ -> ]We choose this experiences as an alternative then simply being what we already are.
Our amusement is infinite.
The comprehension of this both scares me and fills me with joy at the same time.
(01-01-2012, 08:22 AM)Sagittarius Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2012, 06:54 AM)drifting pages Wrote: [ -> ]We choose this experiences as an alternative then simply being what we already are.
Our amusement is infinite.
The comprehension of this both scares me and fills me with joy at the same time.
Hmmm have been doing some contemplating on this. I think I just understood/felt it a bit more. Although I have read that change is the only constant I think I just understood it a little better in relation to what I feel and think, nothing ever seams to satisfy, moments of joy or contentedness pass as regularly as the tides, as do moments of sadness or un-contentedness. As do we in this present conscious always strive for change and discovery of self so does the one creator albeit in an infinitely complex way.
The veil and this self complex are just a very efficient way of experiencing these moments in great speed and quantity. Hence the distortion of seaming instability and the I guess great chance of the distortion of error.
This thread has been an excellent catalyst thanks guys.
