(12-19-2011, 08:47 PM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]Just stumbled on this in the 2010 L/L Homecoming handout PDF...
Yes! Thanks for digging this up! It is quite commendable of you to question your preconceived notions, and to seek deeper into the material in order to gain a better understanding. And may I also commend you for your courage in bringing this to the attention of others, and for the willingness to consider the possibility that you may have been previously mistaken.
Now that I see this, I remember reading this before when it was first posted on llresearch.org. But with all the resistance to these ideas from others, I was starting to think I had made this notion up in my mind somewhere along the way. Thanks again for sharing this.
Quote:We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query. There are two layers to that query and we would answer both of them. Firstly, in terms of the planetary situation, there is no variance possible in the turning of the age. It is a mathematical, geometrical design that works like a clock. When the age is done, another age moves in and this is what is occurring with Planet Earth at this time. This will indeed occur, as you say, in 2011, 2012, in that vicinity. We would be delighted to be completely accurate but although the mathematics of Planet Earth turn to a specific date of December 21, 2012, there are metaphysical corrections to be made to the Earthly mathematics which indicate that the clock will turn somewhat before that, somewhere in the summer preceding the winter solstice of 2012.
So there definitely is a discrete transition point somewhere around this time in which we find ourselves. This is consistent with everything I recall from the other transcripts.
Quo Wrote:Be that as it may, this is only one layer of our answer. What impacts the questioner, and all of those upon Planet Earth, far more is the harvest that is occurring concomitantly with this turning of the age. The harvest has already begun. It began in your year 1987 in that period called “Harmonic Convergence.” [4] Entities began being harvested when they died from the physical at that time. All were offered the steps of light. Many of those you now call “Indigo Children” are those who have graduated from Planet Earth in the positive sense, have now gone on to acquaint themselves with their new fourth-density homes and have asked for permission to return to third density as wanderers.
Right. Which is why I keep saying that 4D earth is already formed and inhabitable. Those who are harvested will be joining a world
already in progress.
BTW... I wonder what happened to the bodies of those 4D wanderers when they returned to 3D?
Quote:This throws my understanding of the harvest on its head.
Which of your notions, specifically, is turned on its head by this? And if you can recall or research... where did it come from?
Quote:13.22 Questioner: What is the density level of our planet Earth at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. The sphere upon which you dwell is third density in its beingness of mind/body/spirit complexes. It is now in a space/time continuum, fourth density. This is causing a somewhat difficult harvest.
Yes.
Quote:13.23 Questioner: How does a third-density planet become a fourth density planet?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question.
The fourth density is, as we have said, as regularized in its approach as the striking of a clock upon the hour. The space/time of your solar system has enabled this planetary sphere to spiral into space/time of a different vibrational configuration. This causes the planetary sphere to be able to be molded by these new distortions. However, the thought-forms of your people during this transition period are such that the mind/body/spirit complexes of both individual and societies are scattered throughout the spectrum instead of becoming able to grasp the needle, shall we say, and point the compass in one direction.
Namaste Wrote:This appears to be inconsistent with the first quote. One thing to consider; occur does not imply to start. Something I quite unconsciously assumed when reading.
I don't see the inconsistency. Can you elaborate further? Yes, I have been reading "is occurring" to mean ongoing.
Quote:17.29 Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?
Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.
Namaste Wrote:This could imply that the Earth changes that have gone on in the last two decades is due to the harvest...
Session 17! Proceed with caution! Having participated in numerable quote debates, I observe that a great many of the most persistent disagreements among forum members relate back to this session in one way or another.
Quote:33.12 Questioner: Thank you. As we near the end of this master cycle there may be an increasing amount of catalyst for entities. I am wondering if, as the planetary vibrations mismatch somewhat with the fourth-density vibrations and catalyst is increased, if this will create more polarization thereby getting a slightly greater harvest?
Ra: I am Ra. The question must be answered in two parts. Firstly, the planetary catastrophes, as you may call them, are a symptom of the difficult harvest rather than a consciously programmed catalyst for harvest. Thus we do not concern ourselves with it, for it is random in respect to conscious catalyst such as we may make available.
Yes. The "inconveniences" are a result of denied negative energies by humanity. Thus it is a symptom of a difficult harvest. If people would take responsibility and "own" their negativity, the Earth would not have to absorb and release it in her own fashion. Sadly, we have a great many "love n' lighters" who, though quite well-meaning, are adding to the inconveniences by their unwillingness to accept the negativity which is part and parcel of life on this sphere. (At least, up until now.) Might I also suggest a similar effect from those who would deny that there really are, in fact, people out there who seek to utterly control and dominate the rest of humanity, and who have been planning to commit mass murder of those who are not willing to "tow the line". Fortunately, it would appear that none of these diabolical plans will come to full fruition... though we are not out of the woods quite yet.
Namaste Wrote:This much quoted, and misunderstood quote is actually simple. It states when third density will no longer be viable to incarnate in. 'Transition' has been misunderstood by many, assuming it's to do with linked incarnation in physical bodies.
Quote:40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?
Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.
I never read "transition" here to refer to anything but the planet. I must admit I have been very confused when this quote has been used to support certain notions about what is going on with human bodies during this time.
Namaste Wrote:Ra states that 4D has already arrived, which doesn't sit with Q'uo's words that it is 100% formed this winter solstice.
Quote:40.11 Questioner: Starting then, forty-five years ago, and taking the entire increase of vibration that we will experience in this density change, approximately what percentage through this increase in vibrational change are we right now?
Ra: I am Ra. The vibratory nature of your environment is true color, green. This is at this time heavily over-woven with the orange ray of planetary consciousness. However, the nature of quanta is such that the movement over the boundary is that of discrete placement of vibratory level.
I don't see this as incongruent. 4D earth started to be formed in 1936. There was a gestation period of about fifty years. It was born in 1987, and will be fully formed, or developed, by the end of 2012.
I think where people are getting caught up is in the idea that 3D earth becomes 4D earth. They are two different spheres, though interconnected as Q'uo describes in numerous sessions. The concept of nested densities is also discussed at length in that
2010 Homecoming PDF to which you referred.
Might I suggest you think about it this way- a mother's body
transforms (read that literally: trans-form) itself into the child's body during gestation. This
does not mean the mother "becomes" the child, or that they have the same body, once the birthing process is complete. That would be kind of a silly notion, don't you think?
Namaste Wrote:This is often (mis)used to promote the gradual ascension argument, but, it actuality indicates that there are fourth density wanderers on the planet post 2012 (which is actually what Q'uo states quite often - 4D wanderers return to help heal the planet).
Quote:43.25 Questioner: On this planet after the harvest is complete, will fourth-density beings be incarnate on the surface as we know it now?
Ra: I am Ra. The probability/possibility vortices indicate this to be most likely.
Exactly. "Fourth-density beings" does not necessarily refer to "newly" fourth-density. It includes 4D wanderers. Those who are harvestable will remain 3D until they are harvested... upon which they will incarnate into a 4D body on the 4D sphere. Ra is answering the query
as given... but not as it may have been intended.
Namaste Wrote:Again, Ra mentions that the harvest is already taking place, as third density entities who die, and yet graduate, are able to re-incarnate at this time for added catalyst and service. This one is quite clear.
Quote:63.15 Questioner: Would the purpose in transitioning to Earth prior to the complete changeover then be for the experience to be gained here before the harvesting process?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. These entities are not Wanderers in the sense that this planetary sphere is their fourth-density home planet. However, the experience of this service is earned only by those harvested third-density entities which have demonstrated a great deal of orientation towards service-to-others. It is a privilege to be allowed this early an incarnation as there is much experiential catalyst in service to other-selves at this harvesting.
Yup.
Namaste Wrote:Again, there is no gradual ascension. Or instant. Unless you die suddenly, of course :¬)
Is there anything that, in your mind, would preclude the rather sudden departure of a large swath of humanity from this plane? Other than perhaps you just don't particularly like that idea?
Quote:63.20 Questioner: Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
There is more than one way to die. I think there is also a great deal of confusion here because many do not see the possibility of conscious death, i.e. simply laying the body down and choosing to depart. No cosmic law against that, so far as I am aware.
Quote:63.21 Questioner: Are there any inhabitants at this time of this fourth-density sphere who have already gone through this process. Is it now being populated?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct only in the very, shall we say, recent past.
63.22 Questioner: I would assume that this population is from other planets since the harvesting has not yet occurred on this planet. It is from planets where the harvesting has already occurred. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
Yes. This is a recurring problem in the transcripts. There are often multiple questions, or multiple parts of a question, in a particular query. This is why I previously have encouraged others to pay very special attention to the syntax of the query. Garbage in, garbage out.
"This is correct" refers to the second sentence of the query. Not the first. If you look very closely, you will see the first sentence is not a question, it is simply a statement by the Questioner. That's why Ra didn't respond to that part.
Quote:Hmmm. Back to the fully formed 4D sphere stuff. It appears it might not be fully formed yet, due to the overlaying yellow/orange of humanities collective consciousness...
Not a problem. The two worlds are different. They overlap in space/time but are not within the same frequency range. Just like how all of the radio channels are broadcast at once, but the tuner only picks up one at a time. Though on occasion, and especially if the frequencies of two stations are very close to another, or if one is traveling in an area of overlap between different broadcast areas, there is a "bleedthrough" effect and you can hear both channels simultaneously.
Namaste Wrote:Note the key words type of here. Akin to 'category', 'kind', 'likeness'. This is another quote gradualists get caught up on.
Quote:63.27 Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density [i]type of physical vehicle[/u] and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.
Right. Take a close look at the reply here. What is the "creation" Ra is speaking of? It is the creation of "green-ray density bodily complexes". The term is
plural, as in the whole group of complexes. Thus the formation will be gradual, i.e. the green-ray bodies (as a whole) are not all formed at once. They will each be formed individually, first arising from the 3D body, then continuing on by bisexual reproduction and evolutionary processes.
I am under the impression that the "original" 4D bodies (the "first-born" of 4D) grow out of the 3D bodies. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. This is not the same thing as saying the 3D body
becomes the 4D body. In other words, for many if they were to suddenly see with 4D sight, they might be quite surprised to learn that they are, in a sense, pregnant. And about to give birth. In other words- dual bodies.
Namaste Wrote:What do you think, are we in the harvest already - do Q'uo and Ra sing from the same hymn sheet?
As far as I have been able to discern, there is no inconsistency among any of the transcripts. This includes Ra and Q'uo, but also Hatonn, Laitos, Latwii, Yadda, Oxal, Amira, et al.
In every case, when I have perceived there to be an incongruency, I was able to arrive at a higher perspective which resolved the apparent differences. In
every case of apparent discrepancies, upon deep pondering and analysis, I arrived at the conclusion that I was previously wrong about a certain concept. Or perhaps wrong is too strong of a word. How about... incorrect. The larger point is, I have not found it once necessary to "take what resonates and leave the rest". It all resonates. In my view, that disclaimer which Q'uo gives before all their sessions is for
their benefit, not ours.
As you are noticing, it is imperative to pay close attention to the overall context, as well as the particular connotation of certain words which can easily be mis-taken if one has a different idea in their own mind about what those words mean. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it is also of high importance to pay close attention to the particular syntax of the query. Ra always responds to the query exactly as stated.
Ra always responds to the query exactly as stated.
I would like to expand on this previous point, which I have raised in other threads. However, in the context of Namaste's observations, I think that some might find it a little more compelling (or at least interesting) than it was taken previously.
It is basically this: Ra was not mulling around in Don's mind when he was offering the queries.
As readers of channeled materials, we might have an idea of what the Questioner was attempting to get at, and assume that the reply is given to what was meant, rather than what was actually said.
Ra does not do this. If they did do this, the material would be nothing more than a normal conversation, where people are responding to "what they think the other person means" rather than what they
actually said. If that were the case with the Ra Material, we would have little hope of really understanding anything which they may have intended to convey. As it stands, I have to say (as wonderful and amazing the work is) I think it fell far short of what was intended from Ra's side of things.
L/L Research- who I love and admire for being so courageous to even attempt to do this work-
sometimes didn't appear to be considering the material from the perspective of what Ra wanted to say. I know they did/do consider the work to be a co-creation. As it certainly is. But being in the process of learning about all of this as it was happening for the first time, they didn't have the same vantage point then as we all do now, thirty years later.
Ra, of course, does not have much to say
unless they are specifically asked. But that isn't to say, they didn't already have some things in mind that they would have
preferred to talk about. Remember, Ra initiated contact with L/L, not the other way around.
But how to know what to ask? We can only draw from our preexisting biases. In this particular case, there was a heavy concern about certain predictions that had been made through other channels about "earth changes" as well as wanting to know about "UFOs".
This set up a certain dynamic which ultimately resulted in an unfinished work. And let us not forget- the work is yet unfinished. I can't help but wonder where the material would have gone if it has started out like this:
Quote:Ra: In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
May we enunciate this law in more detail?
Questioner: Yes! Please go on.
I would venture to say if Don had answered "Yes" instead of "No", then the concept of "harvest" would not have been introduced until much later in the material. And we may not have been caught up in all this confusion for so long.
As the material stands, I can see how Don sort of forced Ra's hand to talk about "harvest" with his query about "planetary changes":
Quote:Questioner: Can you comment on the coming planetary changes in our physical reality? [Background noise.]
Ra: I am Ra. I preferred to wait till this instrument had again reached the proper state of depth of singleness or one-pointedness before we spoke.
The changes are very, very trivial. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about harvest.
... and don't forget that [Background noise.] is Jim fumbling about with groceries in the kitchen! Can you imagine?
Now... go back and look at the quote again. Can you see how perhaps Ra was starting us off with us a nice double (or triple?) entendre:
Ra Wrote:I preferred to wait till this instrument had again reached the proper state of depth of singleness or one-pointedness before we spoke.
... before we spoke... about harvest. Ra knew this was going to be part of the material. I'm not so sure that L/L did. As far as I am aware, the term "harvest" came up only a handful of times in the transcripts before the Ra contact. Prior to the Ra Material, "harvest" didn't seem like it was too much of a focus for L/L. Although, Hatonn definitely seems concerned about it. I wonder why L/L didn't pick up on this back in the seventies??
13 Apr 74
Hatonn Wrote:We would much prefer to come directly to the point, to bring this simple truth directly to all of your peoples and then allow those who would seek it to seek it, but we understand from our experience in such matters that this produces a very shallow harvest of seekers.
06 Jun 74
Hatonn Wrote:We have been aware of your desire to serve for, in some cases, a considerable length of time as you know. No one can know better than some of you here tonight that our mission on planet Earth has not been as successful as we had hoped. The harvest is coming, my friends, it is coming very quickly. And the harvest will be somewhat smaller than we had ever hoped. And in this fact we experienced a degree of sadness for we attempted to the best of our ability to alert all of those on the planet known as Earth who could hear to the possibility of a higher existence. And in many, many cases this information was not recognized or desired. You, too, from attempting to express the thoughts of the Creator have often found this to be so. And I am aware of the great sadness that you too feel.
30 Oct 76
Quote:B: Can you say anything about (inaudible)?
We have spoken many times, through this instrument and others, of the harvest. May we ask what you are specifically requesting? It is a large subject.
B: Will it occur all at once, or will it be spread out over a period of time?
The latter is correct. What has been spoken of as the harvest has already begun, and will continue for several of your years, perhaps as many as would make a quarter century. In fact, time being our most difficult concept to cope with in dealing within you who are within this time continuum, we cannot say for sure that it would last any certain time. But that it will last several of your years we do know.
M: (Inaudible). What is the method (inaudible)?
When the crop is ripe, the reaper comes among it. We understand the gist of your question. It is difficult for you to perceive that the mechanisms of a cosmic or celestial nature may be on a scale which is difficult for you to imagine. But it is truly said in your holy works that to the Creator, a thousand years is but an evening. It is through the natural cycle of physical birth and death that most will enter their new (inaudible). It does not take a great many years for all of those on the planet to end their Earthly existence. It will not happen all at once, any more than any natural process happens all at once. It is simply that as you see the leaves upon the trees of your planet falling, although they do not fall all at the same time, there is a period when they are all on the tree, and there is a period when your trees are bare, and the leaves have gone on to the next cycle.
... and there you have your answer. Totally consistent with what Ra said in the Law of One, and with what Q'uo said, twenty-five years later:
04 Feb 01
Quote:And it is in a metaphysical sense that your Earth is experiencing that which this instrument calls harvest. The Earth itself has come to a crux in its own development. It is as though the Earth must needs give birth to itself. The third-density Earth is in the process of being transformed into a fourth-density, positive sphere. Your Earth is having difficulty with this birth. There are various reasons for this difficulty having to do largely with the negative concepts which have fed into entities choosing negatively polarized actions towards each other over a period of centuries and millennium. It is as though the Earth’s energy system were clogged with a good deal of toxic material of a metaphysical nature. As entities such as yourselves awaken to their spiritual identity and become more and more conscious of the positive value of thinking along positive lines and pursuing positive orientations of polarity in thought, that toxic material is gradually given permission to be released. For as the light brightens, the new energies of instreaming fourth-density nature are able to find more welcome. And in that atmosphere it is gradually more and more possible for negative energy to be released and disbursed harmlessly.
We are not talking, in this wise, strictly about non-physical events, for certainly there are physical aspects to the metaphysical birth of fourth-density Earth. There are problems having to do with excessive heat within the mantle of your Earth, which, again, have to do with these negative thoughts, over a long period of time, being driven into the very Earth itself. And we find that there have been disasters and catastrophes aplenty within your Earth sphere, difficulties of weather that offer flood, earthquake and fire, causing much suffering and loss of life among your peoples. However, in actuality, were we to have spoken with this instrument a quarter century ago, we would have been less sanguine about the possibility that your physical Earth will be able to enter fourth density relatively unscathed and with the planetary population relatively unscathed.
As Earth entities awaken, the planetary energy lightens and global catastrophe has become instead a series of small and survivable catastrophes. Certainly they are not small catastrophes to those who lose the life or have loss of life in their families. Nevertheless, the great majority of Earth entities see the difference between local catastrophes and global catastrophes, and we feel that this is a very hopeful portion of this subject: that things are better, metaphysically speaking, for the Earth than they were in terms of the Earth’s harvest.
The concept of ascension is a concept that we have found largely within your cultures’ Christian belief systems. The beliefs vary, but the basic commonality of this idea centers upon the concept of some entities being physically removed from the surface of the Earth to safe places at a time when the remainder of the population of the Earth will be destroyed by the end of the world or some other version of the apocalypse, whether the cause of it be man or spirit. It is not our understanding that this concept is a helpful one spiritually. It is not our opinion that this is the way things work in any physical sense. In our opinion the processes of ascension or harvest are subsumed within the process of moving through the physical death and entrance into larger life, as this instrument would put it.
The concept of the harvest of Earth is, more than ascension, in line with our understanding with the way things work metaphysically. Each of you is a spark of the Creator, and each of you may think of yourself in a way as that which has been planted in the Earth, for you have been planted as a soul into flesh. And at the end of that work done within the school of life, the door of death opens, the Creator beckons, and through that door each goes. Upon the other side of that door, the decision for your harvest shall be made. However, it is not our understanding that this harvest is one of judgment placed upon one from the outside. Rather, it is a matter of that vibration that you and how that vibratory energy field works. Each crystal soul accepts light in a certain range and finds it difficult to accept life outside of that range. Consequently, the harvest of each of you consists, basically, of the careful and guarded process whereby the soul walks along a gradually increasing line of vibration of light. The light increases as the soul walks, and as the soul walks it senses whether or not it is most comfortable. It walks into that increasing light until it is at the spot of fullest light that it can enjoy and appreciate in a stable manner. And it stops at that point because it is uncomfortable to go further. Where that soul stops is either still in third density or has moved over into fourth density or higher. If that soul has stopped in third density, then it chooses, completely on its own and with no judgment involved, to repeat the third-density experience. In many cases this decision will not simply be for another incarnation, because this is the time of Earth harvest. It will mean there will be a 25,000 year period during which that spirit will enjoy third density upon another planet. However, it is not a punishment to repeat a grade. It is simply the right place for that soul that enjoys that range of light. If that spirit has stopped across that quantum divide between third and fourth density, that entity may then choose to begin a series of incarnations in fourth density and can be said to have graduated from Earth’s third density. For each person that experience will be unique. To our knowledge, there is no general harvest but, rather, the individual harvest of each soul upon each soul’s schedule.
We are aware that there is much confusion between metaphysical harvest and physical concerns having to do with the environment and other physical, scientific facts. May we say that is specifically not our province, and we feel that to discuss some of the concerns of those who seek scientifically is to infringe upon the free will of those who seek spiritually. This is, for us, a delicate area, for we too are both physical and metaphysical. However, in terms of our relation to this group or to any of those of Earth, we are at this time carefully non-physical. For we have found in the past when we have attempted to move physically among your people that there was no possibility of doing so without gross infringement upon the free will of planet Earth. Consequently, we have learned the hard way to allow some confusion in terms of scientific queries. And for this we offer our apology. It is an honest one. We do not withhold information for petty reasons but, rather, because we think that it is not only the right thing to do, but the clear and concise thing to do, for anything that we say about your physical situation upon planet Earth is not fact but a possibility vortex. By entering into discussion we become part of that possibility vortex. This is not acceptable. This would compromise our polarity and make it necessary for us to leave your people. Therefore, it is our judgment, fallible though it may be, to create these boundaries of that which we feel free to talk about and that which we do not.
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