Bring4th

Hey gang,

I've had a question rolling around in my head this week. What is the value of faith? It's a tough question that I don't have a fast answer to. Where metaphysics / religion / spirituality is concerned, the only thing I can think of is perhaps it reassures one that our consciousness doesn't go to oblivion upon bodily death? Does it help an individual in any other way than that?

Food for thought / bonus question- is it a hallmark of the negative path to see absolutely no point in or to place no value on faith? Demanding proof, being cynical etc? Or is that just another polarity neutral choice in attitude / perspective among the infinite attitudes one could form?

I may not have time to participate (so busy these days), but I will be listening. And thank you in advance!

L&L,
Eric

It is my great joy to share with you this quote from the Aaron/Q'uo Dialogues, which I just happened to be reading earlier today:

The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues, Session 17
23 Mar 93

Aaron Wrote:For reasons I cannot easily explain, the primary lessons of third density are faith and love. What will teach you faith? If you incarnate with full awareness of who you are and what you are doing in this incarnation, with clear seeing of the divinity in yourself and in all beings and the clear experience of God, where is faith to be learned? But that faith is a foundation. Without that faith the later lessons of wisdom may so easily become distorted and move the being into negative polarity. So these muscles of faith must be built by practice.

You know that there are many planes of learning and that this earth experience is a somewhat new experiment insofar as the entire history of the universe. Perhaps the greatest success of this experiment has been the profundity of the way faith is learned, of the experience of faith on this plane. This is a gift, this veil of forgetting. Because of the veil you cannot take your divinity for granted, but must always move deeper into the experience of it, must always work to separate illusion from deeper reality. And yet, no matter how clearly you experience that deeper reality, as human, it still must be taken as a matter of faith. You are not given proof.

One thing that is occurring here is that you are strengthening the will to express your divinity and to be of service to all beings. If there were clear seeing with no veil, you might come into incarnation and say, “Yeah, I’d like to serve. Sure, why not?” But it would not be a strong decision from within the heart, not a deep answering to a call, just following the pattern: “This is what everybody’s doing; I’ll go along with it.” Can you see the difference? Intention is all-important.

We emphasize that you have free will. We emphasize responsibility. In essence, this veil and the matter of faith offer you the opportunity to exercise that free will and responsibility without clearly knowing what you are doing, just trusting that light within you and the way it connects you to all that is. Through each incarnation lived in faith you grow into deeper readiness for that responsibility. You are responsible for what you know. To know, to have deeper wisdom and understanding, carries deeper responsibility. Without the deep support of faith, that responsibility would seem too great a burden.

When you see clearly who and what you are on the astral plane between your human lifetimes and after graduation from this plane, then your decisions to serve, for example, grow out of a strong place only of will. Because you know who you are and are ready for that responsibility in the upper densities, there is no problem. On the earth plane it can easily become distorted so that will twists itself into judgment and self-judgment. Rather than expressing love, one would simply express self-discipline. One would move into a sense, “I came to do this and I’m going to do it, and nothing’s going to stop me!” But you are not here to learn that level of self-determination, not here to use force and judgment as guidance for your choices, but here to learn love as guidance for your choices. To express your energy with love, there must be that sense of connection that grows out of faith.

(01-07-2012, 02:06 AM)Eric Wrote: [ -> ]What is the value of faith? It's a tough question that I don't have a fast answer to. Where metaphysics / religion / spirituality is concerned, the only thing I can think of is perhaps it reassures one that our consciousness doesn't go to oblivion upon bodily death?

What does faith have to do with bodily death??

I agree that faith can reduce fear. It also can provide some standards or rules to help make life choices. The Ra material gives me faith in its reliable guidance for my life toward making sensible decisions and being a good person.

That's more than my childhood religion gave me. I just kept thinking a lot of it was silly.

Faith has everything to do with bodily death.

It gives the person hope that there is more to look forward to after the death of this lifetime.

Faith is simply hope that what you believe will come to pass.

And this emotion has been used for thousands of years by the right hand path to prepare its followers for the left hand path.

Once one becomes enlightened to the teachings of the left hand path faith is no longer required.

(01-07-2012, 02:06 AM)Eric Wrote: [ -> ]Hey gang,

I've had a question rolling around in my head this week. What is the value of faith? It's a tough question that I don't have a fast answer to. Where metaphysics / religion / spirituality is concerned, the only thing I can think of is perhaps it reassures one that our consciousness doesn't go to oblivion upon bodily death? Does it help an individual in any other way than that?

Food for thought / bonus question- is it a hallmark of the negative path to see absolutely no point in or to place no value on faith? Demanding proof, being cynical etc? Or is that just another polarity neutral choice in attitude / perspective among the infinite attitudes one could form?

I may not have time to participate (so busy these days), but I will be listening. And thank you in advance!

L&L,
Eric

Ra states that to build faith in the Creation and unity of all, while under the veil, is one of the 'graduation requirements' to fourth density.

Quote:82.29 Questioner: You have stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize more than 50% service-to-others to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil?
Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

Faith is very healthy for you. Studies have shown that those with a shared faith, living in a community based environment, 'rank' higher in happiness/satisfaction.

Not to mention the health benefits. If one has faith that there is a healing and loving Divine force within them, their neurological mindset/patterns will in turn illicit the secretion of hormones and chemicals highly beneficial for cell regeneration.

This is why I asked the question, because the definition is subjective and people will think they are talking about the same thing otherwise.

(01-07-2012, 10:30 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Faith is simply hope that what you believe will come to pass.

Perhaps this is so for you, but for me it's definitely not "a hope that what I believe will come to pass". For me, hope is nothing but another attachment. Also, "what will come to pass" exists in a necessarily make-believe future. Combine those things and you have yet more transient desire, because that desire is the only thing that can sustain hope.

For me, one description of faith would be something like a recognition of current participation in a universal, infinite connection and continuity. This is not one's particular desires or expectations as 'hope' might engender.

I would concur that faith is a very loaded word. If I may make a bold conjecture, it appears to me that certain words have been specifically targeted for distortion through societal institutions and the media. Then again, perhaps it is just part of how things work in a dualistic environment.

Sooner or later- every word will come to mean its opposite. Thus I observe those who use "faith" as an excuse to be lax about their own spiritual growth, and who "trust" that Jesus is going to come save them from themselves.

The best definition I have come across (and by "best" I mean most amenable to my personal biases) is that faith is the belief/understanding that "All Is Well" despite appearances to the contrary.

However, even given this definition, I find some fear within myself around this. I wonder- by taking up the lessons of faith does that increase or decrease the frequency and intensity of said "appearances to the contrary"? In other words, in my intention and practice of being faithful am I actually drawing to myself more catalyst that is meant to test my faith? Or by being more faithful does the catalyst become more subtle?

My intuition tells me it is the latter, but my rational mind seems to favor the former.

(01-07-2012, 01:18 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]In other words, in my intention and practice of being faithful am I actually drawing to myself more catalyst that is meant to test my faith? Or by being more faithful does the catalyst become more subtle?

More fundamentally, intention and practice of any state/disposition/distortion must necessarily call a balance to itself. The less distortion, the more subtle the catalyst, until faith is harmonious with "what is".

(01-07-2012, 02:02 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2012, 01:18 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]In other words, in my intention and practice of being faithful am I actually drawing to myself more catalyst that is meant to test my faith? Or by being more faithful does the catalyst become more subtle?

More fundamentally, intention and practice of any state/disposition/distortion must necessarily call a balance to itself. The less distortion, the more subtle the catalyst, until faith is harmonious with "what is".

So, let me see if I have understood your comment. It appears to me that you are saying- to the degree one grasps at any particular quality is to the degree that the contrast dial is turned up in their experience. Is this an accurate characterization?

If this is the case, then I would be inclined to conclude that, rather than seek to become more faithful, one would seek to become more present.

(01-07-2012, 02:32 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2012, 02:02 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2012, 01:18 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]In other words, in my intention and practice of being faithful am I actually drawing to myself more catalyst that is meant to test my faith? Or by being more faithful does the catalyst become more subtle?

More fundamentally, intention and practice of any state/disposition/distortion must necessarily call a balance to itself. The less distortion, the more subtle the catalyst, until faith is harmonious with "what is".

So, let me see if I have understood your comment. It appears to me that you are saying- to the degree one grasps at any particular quality is to the degree that the contrast dial is turned up in their experience. Is this an accurate characterization?

To the degree that one grasps any particular quality is the degree that that quality has been made available.

If the contrast dial is turned up, but at the same time there is a lesser distorted or smoothed view, that would seem to be contradictory. But that's what occurs in balancing. There is more distinction or contrast possible, but less distinction actually required or a simplification made on what is grasped.

(01-07-2012, 02:32 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]If this is the case, then I would be inclined to conclude that, rather than seek to become more faithful, one would seek to become more present.

Seeking generally tends to lead one to the present.

(01-07-2012, 01:06 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]This is why I asked the question, because the definition is subjective and people will think they are talking about the same thing otherwise.

(01-07-2012, 10:30 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Faith is simply hope that what you believe will come to pass.

Perhaps this is so for you, but for me it's definitely not "a hope that what I believe will come to pass". For me, hope is nothing but another attachment. Also, "what will come to pass" exists in a necessarily make-believe future. Combine those things and you have yet more transient desire, because that desire is the only thing that can sustain hope.

For me, one description of faith would be something like a recognition of current participation in a universal, infinite connection and continuity. This is not one's particular desires or expectations as 'hope' might engender.

Zen,

Faith is choosing to believe in something that you cannot prove by scientific evidences. faith is hope that what you choose is actually true and real. I am unsure as to what you are arguing here.

It seems that faith, like other 'activities' of the self, looks different depending on how closely centred your perspective is around the 'apex' perspective of the (co-)Creator. That perspective, seeing the present as having creative potential- in the direction of further realisation of unity (love). Seems to boil down to how much you acquaint yourself with, oneness or 'the present'.

To have a go at a definition.. I would say that faith is creating and maintaining for yourself a 'knowing' of 'something more' or 'all is well'. Less locally, faith would be that 'knowing' being based on the Original Thought- that original thought residing with infinity/unity there is wholeness/wellness and infinite potential/promise, [? these being the 'items' of faith?].

So these 'items' of faith find form in ideas of continuance past 'death' and such, [? and gradually through using the space for realising that there's something beyond experience and then to create and be more than the sum of your experiences, the items of faith reside more and more with the self ?], that 'something more' eventually being fully found in the present and oneself.

In this way, one can see how separation in world view resulting in splitting of agency (through moving out of responsibility), would mean that faith would be put in external agencies (for wholeness/wellness and potential/promise), like 'ancestors', 'spirits', 'a guy in the clouds god', etc..

So I semi-imagine for a realised co-Creator, faith to be an approach to 'the present' (disposition outside proof/knowing of there being access to potential and wholeness) and as a base for 'the reaching' or your willingness to make something 'more' of it. In third density, that 'more' would be love; again in the integrating and creative aspects.

The perspective of the above is how I view the Ra Q/A 82.29- the 'white light of the infinite creator being that which either overwhelms the co-creatorship of the third density entity or facilitates that co-creatorship. Faith being the access key to that facilitation (using the white light). Almost that the use of faith to welcome and use the 'items-of-faith-giving-white-light' must be 'personalised' rather than provisioned or induced by 'a guy in the clouds god that will do for you' etc.

It's great as this thread is dealing with things I'm working with, trying to figure out.. so any comments, criticisms welcome.

I would say that there is also a difference in the definition of faith, as hope and wishful thinking, and faithful, as in being devoted to what you choose believe in.

(01-07-2012, 04:25 PM)Ens Entium Wrote: [ -> ]It's great as this thread is dealing with things I'm working with, trying to figure out.. so any comments, criticisms welcome.

Your definitions are good..I agree with them. The important aspect you noted as the acknowledgement of the wholeness that is present in the moment, and working with it to alleviate distortion through co-creation.

In regards to faith's place in understanding, and overcoming the boundary/edge of third density ..I just made a post about it here http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...8#pid67768

(01-07-2012, 04:25 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2012, 01:06 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]This is why I asked the question, because the definition is subjective and people will think they are talking about the same thing otherwise.

(01-07-2012, 10:30 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Faith is simply hope that what you believe will come to pass.

Perhaps this is so for you, but for me it's definitely not "a hope that what I believe will come to pass". For me, hope is nothing but another attachment. Also, "what will come to pass" exists in a necessarily make-believe future. Combine those things and you have yet more transient desire, because that desire is the only thing that can sustain hope.

For me, one description of faith would be something like a recognition of current participation in a universal, infinite connection and continuity. This is not one's particular desires or expectations as 'hope' might engender.

Zen,

Faith is choosing to believe in something that you cannot prove by scientific evidences. faith is hope that what you choose is actually true and real. I am unsure as to what you are arguing here.

I would agree with Zenmaster. Your definition of faith may be valid for some, connecting hope to the idea. But I also feel that hope usually only serves to detach us from our present experience. We can "hope" something is true despite the fact we can't prove it, or we can simply accept the current experience at "face value" without hope or fear, realizing that what we're experiencing will serve us in whatever way we need it to.

Faith in an afterlife seems to deal with a similar issue. Hoping that our experience doesn't end in death removes some importance on what we are experiencing. For me, it should be seen as a red flag. If we hope that an afterlife exists, how can we trust our own discernment regarding information involving an afterlife? We know that humans will believe what they want to. How do we know that we aren't attaching ourselves to a particular way of thinking simply because it promises that we will continue on after death? The bias of hope will affect our judgement. Realizing our experience isn't futile doesn't have to be connected to the idea of bodily death.

(01-07-2012, 04:25 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Faith is choosing to believe in something that you cannot prove by scientific evidences.

It's not a choice of belief for me, I have no active choice in the matter of faith.

(01-07-2012, 04:25 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]faith is hope that what you choose is actually true and real.

For me, it has nothing to do with a hope. It's a realization, not a determined investment - there is no energy expended with faith. This realization comes into play with regards to making choices, yes.

For me the value of faith lies in the present. A search of the llresearch website gives this chapter: http://www.llresearch.org/library/a_wand...ook_12.pdf. The author, our dear Carla, goes on to say,
"Perhaps my favorite quote from our Confederation archives on faith is this from those of Hatonn:
'One who lives in faith stands with a light that is bright that others may
see. It is a kind of public undressing of the self, metaphysically speaking,
to live a life in faith, for when one who is faithful perceives that, in the
midst of the confusion of mundane living, there is a spiritual principle
which must needs be upheld in order to be faithful, one must then
abandon so-called human wisdom and express foolishly faith that
appearances are deceiving, and that all is truly well. The essence of faith
is the simple feeling that all will be well, and all is well.'3"
Faith means that I can accept the mayhem and sadness going on as well as the joy.

I do not understand how faith can be a realization. Realization is the revelation of reality. It is awareness of a truth.

Once ones becomes aware of a truth there is no need to have faith that it is true. Knowledge is not faith.

To be faithful to something is to be committed and devoted to it. One can be faithful to seeking after truth. One can be faithful to following a particular path.

But one cannot have faith in something that he does not know to be true without hope that it might be true. Otherwise they choose to believe in something that they do not even care comes to pass. they have no goal or destination in mind. There is no energy expended.

I do not suggest that faith is not honorable. It has great value. I am saying that faith is not what one has in something they already know exists as truth. that is not faith, it is knowledge.

Faith is trusting that if we follow the left hand path that we will be fulfilling our divine design.

Faith is believing that one day we shall be free from the darkness of reincarnation.

These things we are becoming aware of as we come to understand our divine nature, but until we actually achieve that transformation, we learn through faith. Those already ascended do not have faith in transcendence, they know it.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I do not understand how faith can be a realization. Realization is the revelation of reality. It is awareness of a truth.

Faith is a reality.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Once ones becomes aware of a truth there is no need to have faith that it is true. Knowledge is not faith.

Knowledge is not faith.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]To be faithful to something is to be committed and devoted to it. One can be faithful to seeking after truth. One can be faithful to following a particular path.

Different meaning, like loyalty and honesty have different meanings.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But one cannot have faith in something that he does not know to be true without hope that it might be true.

Reality unfolds according to faith, regardless of hope, of expectation, of attachment.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I do not suggest that faith is not honorable. It has great value. I am saying that faith is not what one has in something they already know exists as truth. that is not faith, it is knowledge.

knowledge and faith are not and can not be mutually exclusive.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Faith is trusting that if we follow the left hand path that we will be fulfilling our divine design.

Faith has nothing to do with handedness, which is a secondary bias.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Faith is believing that one day we shall be free from the darkness of reincarnation.

No, it's not. That's some kind of knowledge structure with beliefs and expectations.

(01-07-2012, 10:32 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]These things we are becoming aware of as we come to understand our divine nature, but until we actually achieve that transformation, we learn through faith. Those already ascended do not have faith in transcendence, they know it.

We learn through our built in faculties - experience, intuition, judgement, the senses, etc (i.e. the body/mind combo). Faith is primary to that, what exists without expectation or belief, whether we learn or not.

If I'm reading these quotes right, Ra equates faith with intelligent infinity:

Quote:3.9 ...You are precisely correct in your understanding of the congruency of faith and intelligent infinity;

Quote:27.4 ...To define intelligent apart from infinity is difficult, for these two vibration complexes equal one concept. It is much like attempting to divide your sound vibration concept, faith, into two parts. We shall attempt to aid you however.

(01-08-2012, 10:56 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm reading these quotes right, Ra equates faith with intelligent infinity:

Quote:3.9 ...You are precisely correct in your understanding of the congruency of faith and intelligent infinity;

Quote:27.4 ...To define intelligent apart from infinity is difficult, for these two vibration complexes equal one concept. It is much like attempting to divide your sound vibration concept, faith, into two parts. We shall attempt to aid you however.

It is very interesting what you've said here. Can you tell more about your understanding? Because in this quote...

Ra, session 82:29 Wrote:There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross.

...it seems like Ra equals faith with will, when they say "faith or will". What do you think?

"There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross."

The resistance spoken of is that attachment to the present density which keeps one from accomplishing the requirements to rise into a higher density.

The faith spoken of is the commitment to acquiring the understanding which will cause one to become an 'entity which seeks past the boundary'. Entities that do not strive to reach this understanding do not cross because they have not achieved the desire to see to the Other Side, having not reached an understanding that there even is an Other Side.

This is the value of faith!

(01-08-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]"There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross."

The resistance spoken of is that attachment to the present density which keeps one from accomplishing the requirements to rise into a higher density.

The resistance spoken of here, is described in session 82:29

Quote:Questioner: You have stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize more than 50% service-to-others to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

May we ask if there are any brief queries at this working?

Shin'Ar Wrote:The faith spoken of is the commitment to acquiring the understanding which will cause one to become an 'entity which seeks past the boundary'. Entities that do not strive to reach this understanding do not cross because they have not achieved the desire to see to the Other Side, having not reached an understanding that there even is an Other Side.

This is the value of faith!

I don't completely disagree with you here. However, my understanding of faith is more wide than what you wrote above.

More wide?

If by that you realize that definitions are individual attempts at discernment, than We agree also.

Bashar talks of moving from faith to knowingness (and how it is a more empowering state of being); Hope - Trust/Belief - Faith - Knowingness

With regards to the Ra Material and spiritual truths, I think faith is a perspective obscured by the veil, while knowingness is a glimpse from beyond it (attainable by those dedicated to Self discovery and balancing, since one attracts fourth density energy in their seeking to evolve).

---

A rather apt and excellent post from Cyclops on this subject, here.

Highly recommended reading :¬)

(01-08-2012, 07:17 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]It is very interesting what you've said here. Can you tell more about your understanding? Because in this quote...

Ra, session 82:29 Wrote:There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross.

...it seems like Ra equals faith with will, when they say "faith or will". What do you think?

Maybe faith is awareness of intelligent infinity and will is choosing that awareness.

Thank you, thank you, βαθμιαίος, for offering your understanding. It did turn many lights on. When I then searched for the word faith in the material, I did see that congruency between faith and intelligent infinity.

session 42:11 Wrote:The entire activity can only occur when there exists faith that an outcome of this discipline is possible.

session 41:21 Wrote:...through concentration of the will and the faculty of faith alone cause reprogramming without the analogy of the fasting, the diet, or other analogous body complex disciplines.

session 54:30 Wrote:...the indigo that energy of the adept which has its place in faith.

session 73:13 Wrote:...that the entity healed had been healed by its faith, that is, its ability to allow and accept changes through the violet-ray into the gateway of intelligent energy...

session 80:20 Wrote:...for consciousness which has been disciplined by will and faith is that consciousness which may contact intelligent infinity directly.

session 84:21 Wrote:If the polarized entities, by this same energy transfer experience, find that the faculties of will and faith have been stimulated, not for a brief while but for a great duration of what you call time, you may perceive the indigo-ray transfer.

(01-09-2012, 10:31 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe faith is awareness of intelligent infinity and will is choosing that awareness.

This came up first on a Google search for: site:llresearch.org faith "intelligent infinity" awareness.

13 Dec 2008

Q'uo Wrote:The supposition that faith is the climate or environment which enables the seeker to call forth the energies that come from beyond the gateway to intelligent infinity is lacking in completeness while retaining a certain amount of truth. Consequently, we would speak not only of faith but also of will and desire as well as intention.

As the quotation from those of Ra expresses, the upward spiraling energy of the one infinite Creator moves ceaselessly and infinitely through the [physical] mind/body and the mind/body of the energy body as well. The will of the seeker is the energy which activates that process by which what this instrument would call the kundalini is activated.

An entity may rest in faith for a whole life long knowing, as the one known as G has said, that all is well, without ever leaving the sanctity of the open heart. Indeed it is not necessary to work with the gateway to intelligent infinity in order for a seeker to live a life of highly polarized service to others and to graduate into fourth density when the time comes.

The heart and its energy center hold the key to moving forward with the evolution of mind, body and spirit, in that the heart is that sanctuary in which the immediate presence of the one infinite Creator is always available. Indeed, it is the nature of the green-ray energy center to be sanctified and utterly positive, resounding with the vibrations of unconditional love.

It is the choice of many seekers to reach for more than the open heart, for the open heart is a place of being and the nature of that being is love. When a seeker desires more than that resting and tabernacling with love, it forms an intention according to its deepest desires. Whether impulsively or as a result of long thought and contemplation, a seeker desires to move into a place of even greater freedom. And so it sets itself to desire to reach higher.

When the desire of the seeker has been self-understood and honed to a focus that is lucid and coherent, it is able to use its will, that powerful faculty that moves all of the creation, to reach for that which may come through the gateway of intelligent infinity, further to enlighten, inform or inspire. That intention, honed through desire to will, moves first into the blue-ray chakra, the chakra of communication and understanding, and thence onward to the indigo-ray chakra, the chakra of faith.

In the environment of faith, driven in a certain vector by will, the gateway to intelligent infinity is then opened. And the energy of the Infinite, personified and shaped into specificity by the nature of the will and desire of the seeker, comes rushing down into the indigo-ray chakra through the violet-ray chakra, there to meet the upward-spiraling energy that is the constant environment of the energy body.

A cursory attempt at summary:

1. Faith allows us to rest in the awareness that "All Is Well".
2. Intention draws this awareness inward and connects to Intelligent Infinity.
3. Desire brought about by bearing witness to suffering allows Intelligent Infinity to take on a particular energetic form. This is the "upreaching".
4. Will allows this energetic form to be expressed through our mind/body/spirit complex. This is the "downpouring".
5. Faith allows us to return to the resting state.

I'll try to summarize too, in order to perhaps understand something :-/

1. Faith, intention, desire and will are the tools to open the gateway, or having the so called kundalini experience. The will is the tool that activated this process.
2. Faith that "all is well" plus open heart where an immediate precense of the intelligent infinity is always available are enough in order to be harvested into fourth density positive, but not enough to open the gateway.
3. When an entity desires more, it forms an intention based on it's deepest desires.
4. When the desire has been understood and focused, the entity is then able to use its will (<------ the powerful faculty that moves *all* of the creation!! O_o)
5. The intention honed through desire to will moves to the blue center, then indigo, which is the center of faith.
6. There, the everpresent upward spiraling energy of the intelligent infinity, meets the energy of "the Infinite, personfied and shaped into specificity by the nature of the will and desire of the entity", which come rushing into the indigo ray center through the violet ray center.

*phew* No wonder the kundalini "is misunderstood by our people"

(01-10-2012, 12:31 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]1. Faith allows us to rest in the awareness that "All Is Well".

Faith and an open heart, right?

Tenet Nosce Wrote:2. Intention draws this awareness inward and connects to Intelligent Infinity.

I understood it as an intention which is "honed" through the desire to the will, which then opens the gateway.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:3. Desire brought about by bearing witness to suffering allows Intelligent Infinity to take on a particular energetic form. This is the "upreaching".

Where did you read about suffering, or of intelligent infinity to take a particular energetic form?

The "upreaching", as I've understood it, is the energy of the intelligent infinity that is "ceaselessly and infinitely" moves through our physical and energy mind/body complexes (which I called "everpresent" in my post). The open heart is the key to further "upreaching".

Tenet Nosce Wrote:4. Will allows this energetic form to be expressed through our mind/body/spirit complex. This is the "downpouring".

Will activates the process of intention reaching the indigo ray center, if that is our deep desire, right? That is when the gateway to the intelligent infinity is opened.

By energetic form did you mean "the Infinite, personified and shaped into specificity by the nature of the will and desire of the seeker" energy?

Tenet Nosce Wrote:5. Faith allows us to return to the resting state.

Q'uo Wrote:The locus wherein that energy rests after being called through the gateway is quite dependent upon the nature of the desire that has been shaped into a very active willing.

Is that the resting place that you've meant?