Bring4th

hello all,

I have lately been having an old idea pop into my head as I am going through catalyst and experience as of late. I was reading an article from Bill Self about the "shift" he speaks of, and it brought back some old thoughts from last spring that I find are somewhat applicable to my life right now moving forward.

In this whole harvest thing, I have come to an understanding, or a distinction I should say. When I came upon this idea, my inner resonance went off the charts, so for myself, I feel this strongly. My thoughts come down to this, stolen from an old post of mine:

Quote:My own questions with this passage and sphere/plane questions comes down to a single point: Does the yellow sphere/plane have anything to do with our living, breathing bodies? Technically, our bodies are our 2D (orange) selves, which Ra claims will continue on into 4D without interruption...

So what does Ra mean when he says we will die due to 3D necessities? The yellow plane/sphere is described in a word by Ra as "self-awareness". What does the death of self-awareness really mean?

I think of it this way: remove the "awareness" part. We will witness the death of self. Ra claims that one of the staples of 4D will be "knowing everyone's hand", right? This is the elimination of self. We will be fully known by one another - our chosen identities destroyed as we start to navigate a world built on things no longer needed. Our careers and possessions will be washed away, and a new 4D self will emerge, allowing the "illusion" of our 3D experience wash away. It will be a death in that our 3D identities will be lost to us, no longer worth pursuing in a 4D world. There will no longer be lies.

There are a few quotes from Q'uo & Ra that I feel build on this idea as well. First, from Q'uo speaking on what to expect from harvest:

Quote:To offer a more general perception to those who would find it useful, we might say that the matter of matter does not matter. You can think of ascension as taking your physical body with you. Many do. Or you can think of ascension as a state of consciousness that has nothing to do with the physical body.

If your perceptions find that thinking of ascension without regard to the physical body is useful then we would say this. In a very deep and real way, each of you is at the center of a Creation, your creation. In a world where everything is, in a clichéd way, relative, you can easily and comfortably accept the proposition that your experience is subjective. You may strive all your life to achieve objectivity, but you see, my friends, you are there. You are a witness, and that which you observe is observed according to your perceptions. The truth lies beyond perception. The truth lies beyond the conscious mind; that is, the intellect. It is not beyond the mind of the heart, which is consciousness itself. Yet consciousness itself is. It is not a doer. You are the action figure in your drama. [Consciousness] abides. Therefore, it is easier to be love than to be able to speak of love.

Your creation is made up of the way you choose to think about things, the way you choose to observe and perceive things. The striving of humanity in third density is to move beyond the limits of normal perception and open the doors to all that there is. Consequently, if you wish to ascend within the body, that is, the physical body, you shall wish to let your intuition bring to you the activities and the thoughts that will help you to achieve that. Consciousness, awareness, perception, is malleable and easily influenced by many things.

Ra tells us that negative progression and harvest can be applied to our understanding of the positive as well. Additionally, they make it clear that the 'birth' of 4D is a gradual process over time. It does not seem to be a flash in the pan:

Quote:66.30 Questioner: The planet has a certain set of conditions in late third-density, and then the conditions are different in early fourth-density. Could you give me an example of a negatively polarized planet and the conditions in late third-density and early fourth-density so that I can see how they change?
Ra: I am Ra. The vibrations from third to fourth-density change on a negatively oriented planet precisely as they do upon a positively oriented planet. With fourth-density negative comes many abilities and possibilities of which you are familiar. The fourth-density is more dense and it is far more difficult to hide the true vibrations of the mind/body/spirit complex. This enables fourth-density negatives, as well as positives, the chance to form social memory complexes. It enables negatively oriented entities the opportunity for a different set of parameters with which to show their power over others and to be of service to the self. The conditions are the same as far as the vibrations are concerned.

66.31 Questioner: I was concerned about the amount of physical distortions, disease, and that sort of thing in third-density negative just before harvesting and in fourth-density negative just after harvesting or in transition. What are the conditions of the physical problems, disease, etc. in late third-density negative?
Ra: I am Ra. Each planetary experience is unique. The problems, shall we say, of bellicose actions are more likely to be of pressing concern to late third-density negative entities than the earth’s reactions to negativity of the planetary mind, for it is often by such warlike attitudes on a global scale that the necessary negative polarization is achieved.

As fourth-density occurs there is a new planet and new physical vehicle system gradually expressing itself and the parameters of bellicose actions become those of thought rather than manifested weapons.

I feel a large part of this idea comes from the idea that the 1D/2D vehicle is inhabited by the 3D mind ("body"). It is called our 3d body because we choose how to maintain it; it is part of our illusion. I think the clue is in the fact that the 3D body and 4D body are incompatible; could this be a way in which we perceive the world? If you became aware, how could you force yourself to be ignorant again?

Quote:48.8 The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.

The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings. Others have called this same body the etheric body. However, this is not correct in the sense that the etheric body is that body of gateway wherein intelligent energy is able to mold the mind/body/spirit complex.

Quote:63.13 Questioner: Now these entities incarnate into a third-density vibratory body. I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?
Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. It will be noted that the entities birthing these fourth-density entities experience a great feeling of, shall we say, the connection and the use of spiritual energies during pregnancy. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.

This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities.

And herein lies the stick in the spokes that causes all the problems: death.


My own view of Ra and its use of the word death is that it is used as a lesson. RA doesn't seem to respect the idea of death (for good reason) and therefore likes to poke at us with it, imo. In this way, RA speaks of death flippantly and as an inevitability, which is absolutely true. However, I think there is more to it than what we can determine from the surface.

My point of one of the quotes given above is how our physical bodies actually seem to be defined as the 1D/2D body, while the 3D body of self-awareness seems to lie within our brains. Stopping myself from going on forever about this, could our 4D 'upgrade' be a change in the function of our brains (fuller activation of brain mass?) and also therefore our perceptions? I feel this not only makes sense in terms of the mechanics of harvest, but also in how the 4D world is described to us.

Now to my update on this subject: for myself, I have noticed a great change as of late. Synchronicity of thought is commonplace in my life these days, karma is not attaching like it used to, and catalyst is just flying by without too much difficulty. I feel the 4D energies increasing, and I am noticing a shift in my consciousness. In many ways, it is happening how I figured it would, albeit in completely different ways than I expected in a sensory fashion.

Here are the two older threads where these ideas are much more fleshed out:

Spheres and Planes

3d/4d as perception


Has anyone else been noticing a shift? Anyone else prescribe to this half-baked idea I can't get out of my head? The key is to stop getting hung up on 'death'; we do not know what constitutes 'birth' on the other side either.

Excellent. You've made a quite an interesting observation in regards to the definition of death. My thoughts have been wandering along these lines so to speak as of late. I'm working on a long response.

I'm not so worried about death, but more about really living.

Yes exactly, live in the moment.

Just fleshing out some ideas here:

Ra speaks often of 'more electrical' bodies and 3rd density electrical fields... is Ra defining brain activity in this way? we know our brains communicate using electricity through our nervous system. I feel there are a few clues here:

From Question 49:

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The lobes of your physical complex brain are alike in their use of weak electrical energy. The entity ruled by intuition and impulse is equal to the entity governed by rational analysis when polarity is considered. The lobes may both be used for service to self or service-to-others. It may seem that the rational or analytical mind might have more of a possibility of successfully pursuing the negative orientation due to the fact that in our understanding too much order is by its essence negative. However, this same ability to structure abstract concepts and to analyze experiential data may be the key to rapid positive polarization. It may be said that those whose analytical capacities are predominant have somewhat more to work with in polarizing.

The function of intuition is to inform intelligence. In your illusion the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception. As you may see, these two types of brain structure need to be balanced in order that the net sum of experiential catalyst will be polarization and illumination, for without the acceptance by the rational mind of the worth of the intuitive faculty the creative aspects which aid in illumination will be stifled.

There is one correspondence between right and left and positive and negative. The web of energy which surrounds your bodies contains somewhat complex polarizations. The left area of the head and upper shoulder is most generally seen to be of a negative polarization whereas the right is of positive polarization, magnetically speaking. This is the cause of the tone’s meaning for you.

So in this I see Ra explaining the 3D 'body'; we are ruled by duality and the way in which we process our catalyst and interactions can be ruled into two categories - service to self and service to others. Now what would change in this description moving to 4th density? There would no longer be a choice, and therefore need for our brains to have access to both paths of STO/STS. Does this mean our brains would conform to the path that is chosen? Do our brains go "all in" at harvest and this signifies the evolutional change?

from question 63:

Quote:This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

Is this referring to those who "lose their minds" in the 3D "real world" sense? Could this just be fancy talk for saying that someone living in the 4th dimension would not be "compatibly electric" with the 3D world. Could this just mean someone's "Brain" wouldn't work in the limited fashion that is required for confusion?

I'll add more, just wanted to add this quick

Hogey, you bring up a good point.
Could schizophrenia be the 3D mind trying to process 4D energy?

Greetings Hogey11,
I have thought about this issue quite a bit myself, but have not really taken the time, until now, to really research this idea further. Thank you for bringing this up.

(01-08-2012, 03:13 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]My own questions with this passage and sphere/plane questions comes down to a single point: Does the yellow sphere/plane have anything to do with our living, breathing bodies? Technically, our bodies are our 2D (orange) selves, which Ra claims will continue on into 4D without interruption...

…

So what does Ra mean when he says we will die due to 3D necessities? The yellow plane/sphere is described in a word by Ra as "self-awareness". What does the death of self-awareness really mean?

I think of it this way: remove the "awareness" part. We will witness the death of self. Ra claims that one of the staples of 4D will be "knowing everyone's hand", right? This is the elimination of self. We will be fully known by one another - our chosen identities destroyed as we start to navigate a world built on things no longer needed. Our careers and possessions will be washed away, and a new 4D self will emerge, allowing the "illusion" of our 3D experience wash away. It will be a death in that our 3D identities will be lost to us, no longer worth pursuing in a 4D world. There will no longer be lies.

Pulling up quotes on the fourth-density from the material on the lawofone.info website reveals a little bit about this question on the nature of our 'body' in 4D:

A good starting point:

Quote:16.44 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a short description of the conditions in the fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are not words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thought of other-selves; it is a plane wherein one is aware of vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

Our bodies visually look the same, but are composed of different chemical elements.

Quote:43.16 Questioner: The physical vehicle that is used in fourth-density space/time is, I am assuming, quite similar to the one that is now used in third density. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The chemical elements used are not the same. However, the appearance is similar.

Most importantly here, which you have pointed out already, is the telepathic ability in 4D. This is not only a knowing of the other, but a radical change in the abilities of our consciousness in 4D. The idea of a 'self' is eliminated in the sense that the idea of a self exists only in 'relation' to other-selves. This is not to say, obviously, that there will not be other appearances of other-selves in 4D as in 3D, but simply the concept of self in 3D is based on being able to 'hide' your 'self' (composed of memories, thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc).

Once these memories, emotions, feelings and thoughts are perceived by others in 4D, there is still a differentiation in appearance, but the main change here is the abilities of the consciousness. The self in 4D is based off of mutual understanding, love, unbound compassion and the only real 'delineation' being the individuated appearance of an 'entity'.

There is not much in the Law of One material (I could be wrong, I've only spent a few hours researching this before writing this up) about the necessities of 3D besides the catalysts made available to the 3D mind/body/spirit complex. Which brings us to the question of where catalyst originates.

Catalysts originate from our desire in the world. These desires can be pronounced but often, many are not. Other desires are barely conscious to the self. When the mind attaches to anything in the 3D plane as 'real' or 'absolute', it creates an antagonism. We also need other-selves in 3D in order to process/gauge/experience this catalyst effectively and quickly. This relates back to my earlier point of the difference between 3D “self” and 4D “self”. Our desires are simply pointers to what is perceived as 'missing' from life. Can anything be 'missing' if we realize the emptiness of self? There is nothing missing, as there is nothing to be gained or lost in relation to anything, if we realize that we are one. There are only appearances of such dependently arising conditions.

With this understanding, I believe STO 4D is one of “Christ-Consciousness” or “Buddha nature”. There is an ability to relate to 3D, but our understanding of self is radically changed by this transparency. The 3D necessities are of the yellow-ray sphere, which is only opened fully through only caring about the other-self's welfare and happiness. This unbounded love, or compassion is only fully realized in Christ-consciousness or Buddha nature.

Only by realizing the emptiness of self, of our interdependence and connection with each other, can this compassion truly take hold. For if one is to assume the 'reality' of the illusion of self, unbounded compassion is impossible- the self will demand some attention to it's 'care'. There will be people who will 'walk all over you' or 'take advantage of you'. This is the call back towards the illusionary 'self', that demands care of it, rather than 'others', although there is no difference.

Quote:19.12 Questioner: I will make a statement then of my understanding and ask you if I am correct. There is a, what I would call, physical catalyst operating at all times upon the entities in third density. I assume this operates approximately the same way in second density. It is a catalyst which acts through what we call pain and emotion. Is the primary reason for the weakening of the physical body and the elimination of body hair, etc. so that this catalyst would act more strongly upon the mind and therefore create the evolutionary process?
Ra: I am Ra. This is not entirely correct, although closely associated with the distortions of our understanding.

Consider, if you will, the tree for instance. It is self-sufficient. Consider, if you will, the third-density entity. It is self-sufficient only through difficulty and deprivation. It is difficult to learn alone for there is a built-in handicap, at once the great virtue and the great handicap of third density. That is the rational/intuitive mind.

Thus, the weakening of the physical vehicle, as you call it, was designed to distort entities towards a predisposition to deal with each other. Thus, the lessons which approach a knowing of love can be begun.

This catalyst then is shared between peoples as an important part of each self’s development as well as the experiences of the self in solitude and the synthesis of all experience through meditation. The quickest way to learn is to deal with other-selves. This is a much greater catalyst than dealing with the self. Dealing with the self without other-selves is akin to living without what you would call mirrors. Thus, the self cannot see the fruits of its being-ness. Thus, each may aid each by reflection. This is also a primary reason for the weakening of the physical vehicle, as you call the physical complex.

This last quote is to further my point, and strengthen hogey's argument. The short nature of our 3D physical vehicles is exactly to teach us the lesson of love. It teaches us impermanence, of emptiness of all things. “It is self-sufficient only through difficulty and deprivation”; is there such thing as difficulty or deprivation in the 4D self? No, because there is no such thing as difficulty or deprivation, or illusions of such in relation to the concept of the 3D self. We depend on each other to be mirrors to our being-ness, to our progress on the realization of the unbounded love/compassion of the 4D STO self.

Thanks for your input, Somatic. You went into several facets that were less apparent to me, and I thank you for that!

Your discussion also spurs me on to think about 4D birth. Our 3D birth is mired in confusion; a human child is more dependant on its mother and helpless for longer than nearly any animal (2D entity) goes through. There is a quote from Ra where they say that birth on the 4D sphere will be similar, "but of a less confused nature" (i gotta dig up the actual quote - sorry).

I only bring this up in relation to the transition from 3D to 4D for those with transitional bodies. If 4D birth is more of a choice than anything else and the veil is not required, would birth be a risky, uncomfortable process? Isn't part of the challenges of 3D birth things of confusion - survival of the mother and child, financial burdens, health issues, etc? If we are birthed into the 4D world where confusion has left, what does that mean in experiential terms?

(01-10-2012, 12:26 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for your input, Somatic. You went into several facets that were less apparent to me, and I thank you for that!

Your discussion also spurs me on to think about 4D birth. Our 3D birth is mired in confusion; a human child is more dependant on its mother and helpless for longer than nearly any animal (2D entity) goes through. There is a quote from Ra where they say that birth on the 4D sphere will be similar, "but of a less confused nature" (i gotta dig up the actual quote - sorry).

I only bring this up in relation to the transition from 3D to 4D for those with transitional bodies. If 4D birth is more of a choice than anything else and the veil is not required, would birth be a risky, uncomfortable process? Isn't part of the challenges of 3D birth things of confusion - survival of the mother and child, financial burdens, health issues, etc? If we are birthed into the 4D world where confusion has left, what does that mean in experiential terms?

Taking into consideration the harmonious nature of 4D, what catalyst will be left in 4D?

In response to the birth question, I understand from the material that physical pain will not be utilized as catalyst, only minimally at the end of our 4D incarnations.

Quote:43.9 Questioner: In the next density, the fourth density, is the catalyst of physical pain used as a mechanism for experiential balancing?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of physical pain is minimal, having only to do with the end of the fourth-density incarnation. This physical pain would not be considered severe enough to treat, shall we say, in third density. The catalysts of mental and spiritual pain are used in fourth density.

43.10 Questioner: Why is physical pain a part of the end of fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this variety of pain weariness.

So to set the stage, so to speak- there is no physical pain. We live in a community of harmonious, yet individuated entites that are composed of a different chemical nature ('more full of life').

What does Ra say on the nature of catalyst in 4D? What will it focus on?

Quote:48.5 Questioner: Thank you. That clears up that point very well. Can you tell me how positive and negative polarizations in fourth and fifth density are used to cause working in consciousness?

Ra: I am Ra. There is very little work in consciousness in fourth and in fifth densities compared to the work done in third density. The work that is accomplished in positive fourth is that work whereby the positive social memory complex, having, through slow stages, harmoniously integrated itself, goes forth to aid those of less positive orientation which seek their aid. Thus their service is their work and through this dynamic between the societal self and the other-self, which is the object of love, greater and greater intensities of understanding or compassion are attained. This intensity continues until the appropriate intensity of the light may be welcomed. This is fourth-density harvest.

Within fourth-density positive there are minor amounts of catalyst of a spiritual and mental complex distortion. This occurs during the process of harmonizing to the extent of forming the social memory complex. This causes some small catalyst and work to occur, but the great work of fourth density lies in the contact betwixt the societal self and less polarized other-self.


In fourth-density negative much work is accomplished during the fighting for position which precedes the period of the social memory complex. There are opportunities to polarize negatively by control of other-selves. During the social memory complex period of fourth-density negative the situation is the same. The work takes place through the societal reaching out to less polarized otherself in order to aid in negative polarization.

In fifth-density positive and negative the concept of work done through a potential difference is not particularly helpful as fifth-density entities are, again, intensifying rather than potentiating.

In positive, the fifth-density complex uses sixth-density teach/learners to study the more illuminated understandings of unity thus becoming more and more wise. Fifth-density positive social memory complexes will choose to divide their service to others in two ways: first, the beaming of light to creation; second, the sending of groups to be of aid as instruments of light such as those whom you are familiar with through channels.

In fifth-density negative, service to self has become extremely intense and the self has shrunk or compacted so that the dialogues with the teach/learners are used exclusively in order to intensify wisdom. There are very, very few fifth-density negative Wanderers for they fear the forgetting. There are very, very few fifth-density Orion members for they do not any longer perceive any virtue in other-selves.

So, as much as the individualist philosophies like to talk about the status of the individual as being sacred, the basis of 4D will radically be about the societal self, working for the greater good, while balancing it with the individual self. This working will be easier as those in 4D will "automatically harmonize" group differences. In 3D there is a great struggle that ensues as it plays out in 3D conditions.

How do we radiate 4D values then in 3D? By developing ourselves first, spiritually. The compassion that grows out of the realization of oneness, is that of the fully opened yellow ray. Only caring for other-selves, as this is the spring board to green (unconditional love), into an STO harvest.