I have a question regarding the references to metal bending in the Law of One book 1. Ra mentions that this is an ability of 4th density entities incarnated in 3rd density during transition, or rather confirms Don's suspicion of this being the case. Uri Geller is mentioned in the introduction of this book as well as in this old interview (very beginning):
It's since become fairly apparent that Geller was in fact using trickery. Due to his prolific appearances on television there are lots of videos of him performing, one can then simply click through various examples found on youtube pointing out Uri's sleight of hand - many of which are very easy to spot.
In the interview at the top Don also mentions the work of John Taylor. When I found that Geller may have been being dishonest I thought oh well, there are apparently lots of cases of children doing it in controlled settings. This was, however, also a dead end for me. In his book, Superminds, John Taylor apparently speaks of children bending metal in controlled settings. However, he then retracted his support of this phenomenon a few years later and took on a stance of skepticism. See links below:
http://www.answers.com/topic/metal-bending
http://www.randi.org/jr/06-19-2000.html
The skepticism is apparently written into the book "Science and the Supernatural", but I haven't read any of his books to confirm. He supposedly attributes his initial stance on the subject to excitement over Geller's performances and being gullible enough to fall victim to other tricksters.
It seems to me that if people were able to do this it would be possible to find hard evidence of the actual phenomenon. There is no evidence I can find of metal bending in controlled settings, and in fact, not even an example I can find where I can't spot the trick being used now that I know how its done.
Why then would Ra confirm this as being possible?
This has been a bit disappointing to research, simply because I was so intrigued by the actual possibility of paranormal abilities like this existing. I then had the thought of the Global Consciousness Project conducted by Princeton which I've always heard referenced to with high confidence and never thought to investigate. So I clicked over to its Wikipedia and read the criticism section... that's enough personal bubble popping for tonight
Looking forward to anyones thoughts
That "Chi" healer was incredible, wow. Thanks for the paranormal morale boost! haha
I think it is real. I just think the powers that be have not allowed it to be confirmed. Imagine if on the news they had real 100% legit footage of someone doing this. People would be asking questions to the scientific institutions quick smart.
No way in hell they would let it out.
That may have been a legitimate reason 20, even 10 years ago Sagittarius, but in this "youtube age," things like that are not censored by the mass media.
There are several things within the Ra material I have always been very skeptical of without any evidence to ease my skepticism, including this, and the idea that Ra built the pyramids.
Actually, Abridgetoofar, it is not simply a matter of "being censored".
We are operating under a heavy veil. Things like those cannot be performed with the intention of distrupting other's free will - or they can be if one pays the price.
After 2012, I am pretty sure that things will change on this front, but until that, I will continue to believe that these things are possible, but the only confirmation for it can come from within, and nowhere else. Not from a video, not from a scientific confirmation, not from Ra. Only from within.
(01-17-2012, 10:53 AM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, Abridgetoofar, it is not simply a matter of "being censored".
We are operating under a heavy veil. Things like those cannot be performed with the intention of distrupting other's free will - or they can be if one pays the price.
yes, I agree with Oldern. For Free Will to have maximal effect in 3rd Density, there must always be 2 possible ways to look at anything.
even something as simple as a 'flat earth' which makes the most 'common sense' to an individual who does not have an atlas or satellites or basic mathematics ... this is a reasonable interpretation of their experience.
more complex things like ... crop circles ... lights in the sky ... there is always plausible deniability ... if you choose not to believe, there is a case for it
we are here to choose ... and there really is no wrong choice. It's YOUR experience, YOUR co-created reality. There is no 'proof'. There are only the thoughts in your head.
Dean Radin was featured in a documentary in which they covered spoon bending. Useful, because he approaches the metaphysical with a rational, open mind.
http://www.deanradin.com/NewWeb/bio.html
He managed to do it without even realising it, which made him laugh, as he went to the event to see if it was genuine or not.
He keeps the spoon on his desk to remind him of that experience :¬)
My initial thought was the same as Sagittarius - media censorship. Then I looked around on non-media sources ie youtube, like Abridgetoofar pointed out and saw nothing even remotely compelling. However, Oldern brings up a fantastic point.
(01-17-2012, 10:53 AM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]We are operating under a heavy veil. Things like those cannot be performed with the intention of distrupting other's free will - or they can be if one pays the price.
My question to this would be, what is this difference between this and any other scientific discovery? Someone mentioned the Earth being flat. Once it was discovered to be round, wouldn't providing evidence of this be imposing on people's free will just as much as providing evidence of spoon bending? Also, the fact remains that fairly irrefutable evidence of the paranormal does exist. Crop circles may be easy for the ignorant to deny but anyone with 10 minutes of internet knowledge can find information on blown stalks, perfect lay, residual electromagnetic radiation, 30+ formations showing up in one night, and geometrical theorems never before understood by human beings being implemented. I would say that Crop Circles imposed on my free will by quite a bit lol, I fall back to them as the foundation for my spiritual seeking every time I feel skeptical.
I had this thought last night -- perhaps people capable of really bending a spoon with their mind are not of the character to video themselves and put it on the internet. Don's account of speaking to a 14 year old boy just after a UFO experience in the intro to book one describes the boy as being rattled and refusing to speak to Don again after Don has him try this. In fact I would find it a bit peculiar to find a 4th density entity sitting on youtube bending spoons with his mind... albeit I would appreciate the compelling example of this phenomenon lol.
Some of you may disagree, but for me maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism is important with so many dishonest people running around. I tend to want to believe things straight away, being a little skeptical keeps my naive nature in check and serves as armor against manipulation. However, one should be careful as skepticism can become just as dogmatic and zealot-toting as any major religion.
QUESTION: They use a plant sap to soften a rock. Can you tell me the name of that substance?
BASHAR: It is connected to the concept you call Aloe. It is similar to that family. You might recognize it in your language as agave? You will be able to find this if you ask the native Americans of the South American continent in the Amazon region. This channel does not have it in his vocabulary for adequate translation of the true word for this plant.
QUESTION: How about the plants that are used to bend bars such as in exhibition in Cuba?
BASHAR: Only once that we are aware of was a concentration of the same substances used for bending that iron. There is something different going on in the bending of that iron and it really has nothing to do with the plant substance. Most of the individuals that have exhibited those types of demonstrationshave simply utilized the electromagnetheric field, what you call the Meissner field, of their own body to accomplish that effect. They utilize the plant substance as a trigger or a focusing substance, an amplifying substance. It is the field of the body itself that is providing the energy. The substance of the plant is acting as a magnifying lens or a directing lens.
QUESTION: There is a Mexican man who substituted a different type of carbon. Instead of getting cast iron, he got cast steel. What kind of carbon was that? Was it coffee grounds, beans, tortillas, something on the food side?
BASHAR: It is similar to the concept you now understand as Buckminster Fullerine. But it is suspended in an oil or petroleum like suspension. There is a high degree of silica present as well. The combination of a type of petroleum oil, graphite and the carbon form of Buckminster Fullerine with small amounts of silica will create this effect.
Carla and Jim have about a dozen tangled up bent spoons sitting on one of their shelves; you can't walk into their den without seeing a reminder of Uri Geller.
(01-17-2012, 10:53 AM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, Abridgetoofar, it is not simply a matter of "being censored".
We are operating under a heavy veil. Things like those cannot be performed with the intention of distrupting other's free will - or they can be if one pays the price.
I'm curious how the veil, that being specifically defined as the separation of the conscious mind and the unconscious mind, would have to do with infringing on others' free will? Many entities, even some adept, frivolously choose to infringe on the free will of others, despite our veil.
Also, from the works of Don and within the Ra material, it is made to seem like many people have performed it as an exhibition or even accidentally, and yet it has never been filmed. The free will of those present at the exhibition is not as protected as one's possibly viewing a film?
Quote:After 2012, I am pretty sure that things will change on this front, but until that, I will continue to believe that these things are possible, but the only confirmation for it can come from within, and nowhere else. Not from a video, not from a scientific confirmation, not from Ra. Only from within.
What would you expect to happen in 2012 that will change this? I don't disbelieve in the possibility, but I also don't subscribe to the idea of confirmation only coming from within. We are so full of hopes, fears, desires, psychological conditions and bias that this kind of knowing is risky to believe in. I withhold from completely believing that this is possible because I know that some part of me
hopes that it is possible, and that is enough to completely affect my intuitive guidance.
I also tend to believe that if it were such a widespread phenomenon (who knows how many more dual-activated individuals are incarnated now from when the Ra contact was made), and some people even
accidentally stumble upon this phenomenon, it would have been filmed and shared at some point. That belief does not come from any intuitive notion, it comes from logical discernment, which I do not abandon for intuition, I balance it.
And, finally, as Ecz has pointed out, Uri Geller's ability to bend spoons has been debunked, not just from things like the videos he posted, but in closer examinations and under conditions not set up by Geller himself. The L/L crew fully believed his ability was legitimate. I have no doubt that this belief would affect the integrity of the Ra contact regarding the phenomenon.
I'll reiterate, I don't disbelieve it, but my own intuitive "knowing" and the Ra contact combined are not enough for me to believe it, and Uri Geller's exhibitions aren't exactly points for the "spoon bending is legitimate" camp.
(01-17-2012, 07:50 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]I withhold from completely believing that this is possible because I know that some part of me hopes that it is possible, and that is enough to completely affect my intuitive guidance.
My thoughts exactly - good post!
Bending Metal.
this is a totally hilarious answer to one of Don's questions. Don asks if bending metal is something of value or not. Ra gives a short sharp answer:
Quote:50.10 Questioner: There are— I know of people who have been recently trained in meditation, who after a very short period of intense meditation, a couple of days or so, are able to cause the action at a distance effect on metal, bending it. It’s my understanding that they are wearing a pyramid-shaped wire on their heads while doing this. I was… was invited to one of the meditation sessions a couple of years ago but I couldn’t get there. Could you comment on this process, and wh— if they are accomplishing anything of value or not?
Ra: I am Ra. No. Please ask one more full query at this working.
the goal of experience is not to gain powers or abilities, but to gain understanding and acceptance. Bending metal (even if legit) seems to be nothing more than a party trick.
I think Ra was saying that they couldn't comment, not necessarily that the people weren't accomplishing anything of value. (Although I basically agree with you about the relative importance of learning to bend metal.)
(04-29-2012, 10:30 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]I think Ra was saying that they couldn't comment, not necessarily that the people weren't accomplishing anything of value. (Although I basically agree with you about the relative importance of learning to bend metal.)
ah, ok, I see! I needed to read that passage a bit more closely!
this passage (50.10) was also omitted from the original version (published books).
plenum, Thanks for the links. The Chi healer is amazing.
Geller was a stage magician trying to make money to get by, he has admitted to using stage magician techniques but stands by that he does have this ability. Andrija Puharich did multiple scientific tests on Uri,'s ability and came to the conclusion that he was legit but apparently had all of his papers confiscated by the Israeli gov as he was under suspicion of being a spy.
Uri and Andrija's story as told by Andrija is, if nothing else, fascinating and ties in with the whole LOO narrative; ET contact through cassette players, instantaneous object relocation, UFO sightings (that no one but Uri and Puharich could see), trance channeling and whatnot.
After reading Andrija's account of what happened I am somewhat inclined to believe Geller actually does have the supposed ability, it sounds like Uri really just wanted money and fame but realized he was in the middle of something big that he did not understand.
Though, according to the account given, more individuals with such abilities will be incarnating in about ten years from now, so we can just wait and see.
I watched a documentary about Uri Geller about a year ago, called "Uri Geller: A Life Stranger than Fiction" that changed my view of Uri a bit. Previously, almost all I knew about Uri was from L/L Research and James Randi. This documentary was biased a bit towards Uri, but seemed rather fair in my perception.
I learned a lot that I didn't know about Uri. He was studied by the Stanford Research Institude, under extreme controlled conditions, and achieved amazing feats. The study was published. It was refuted in ways that seemed almost as fantastical as the feats Uri accomplished (going so far as to say he had a radio transmitter implanted in his tooth, and someone, somehow had insider information about what pictures he was asked to draw by remote viewing, and transmitted this information to him through this radio transmitter implanted in his tooth.) This speculation of how Uri might have faked it, despite how crazy some of the speculation is, is used to say that the study has been "debunked."
There was also a description of James Randi's famous "debunking" on the Tonight Show, which paints it in a bit of a different light. It also included interviews with Andrija Puharich and James Randi. Watching Randi, you can tell his goal is to prove Uri fake and not to find the truth, which I feel inevitably affects studies, especially those involving paranormal phenomenon.
I also saw Uri in a different light. He was very open about the fact that he wanted to be a famous superstar and wished to use his "powers" to achieve that. It was a very candid documentary with an extensive interview with him, and some footage of his modern interaction. His desire to exhibit his magical abilities can be cringeworthy at times. It humanized him in both positive and negative ways.
Don Elkins also investigated Uri, which can be read about in Secrets of the UFO, and experienced several things that can only be described as "paranormal."
At one point, there was an incident where Don was flying a plane with limited visibility when some of his flight instruments malfunctioned, the most crucial being the horizon indicator, showing him where the horizon was (so he could have his bearing with limited visibility). This is obviously a very dangerous situation and cause for panic.
At the same moment, apparently, Uri experienced an intense psychic moment where he received a message "horizon's out." He knew it had to do with Don, so he wrote it down noting the time and date. Next time Don talked to Uri, Uri mentioned to him this psychic moment, and it correlated with the exact moment Don experienced his equipment malfunction.
As for the bent spoon in Jim and Carla's living room, picking them up and messing with them, it is really hard to imagine how anyone could bend them in the way they are bent without putting real muscle into it and blatantly just bending it with their hands. I don't know exactly how Uri appeared to do it to Don, but I can't conceive of how trickery could be used.
This is tame compared to some of the stuff in the documentary. Some of the stuff seems absolutely incredible.
I think there was a scientific study in which Uri had to remove weights inside a glass cabinet. He could lighten the weights without physically touching/influencing them. Chapter seven of the book "Secrets of the UFO" also talks in more detail about this. You can find it here:
http://www.llresearch.org/library/secret...o_pdf.aspx
But it's due to the law of confusion that things like this are always messed up with contrary voices...
Edit: I found the experiment I meant. It was done in 1973 at Stanford University. Start at minute 5:50!
(02-16-2014, 11:00 AM)Poet Wrote: [ -> ]But it's due to the law of confusion that things like this are always messed up with contrary voices...
What do you mean by "messed up"?
(02-16-2014, 02:53 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]What do you mean by "messed up"?
Truth and illusion are messed up, you could also call it mixed up or else. Just read a newspaper or watch TV and you see how strong
the law of confusion works everywhere. Truth is a very rare phenomenon in these days.
(02-16-2014, 05:42 PM)Poet Wrote: [ -> ] (02-16-2014, 02:53 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]What do you mean by "messed up"?
Truth and illusion are messed up, you could also call it mixed up or else. Just read a newspaper or watch TV and you see how strong
the law of confusion works everywhere. Truth is a very rare phenomenon in these days.
That's because truth requires discernment and that takes effort. Of course it's all related to use of the will. There will always be things we know and things we do not know. Truth doesn't simply fall into one's lap, or there would be no point to bothering to learn.
(02-16-2014, 08:19 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]That's because truth requires discernment and that takes effort. Of course it's all related to use of the will. There will always be things we know and things we do not know. Truth doesn't simply fall into one's lap, or there would be no point to bothering to learn.
Yes, but I wanted to make a quantitative statement about how dishonest and untruthful people are with themselves and others. You could also say how less effort exists to get closer to the truth.
(02-16-2014, 08:39 PM)Poet Wrote: [ -> ] (02-16-2014, 08:19 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]That's because truth requires discernment and that takes effort. Of course it's all related to use of the will. There will always be things we know and things we do not know. Truth doesn't simply fall into one's lap, or there would be no point to bothering to learn.
Yes, but I wanted to make a quantitative statement about how dishonest and untruthful people are with themselves and others. You could also say how less effort exists to get closer to the truth.
However, it should be understood that the dishonest skeptic and dishonest believer are
both dishonest. The believer could easily even be more dishonest and also much more lazy, falling back on the mere feeling engendered by the suggestion of transcendent notion. Either way, "the truth" is still left to discern in order to eventually become a legitimate part of the useful worldview, as any so-called "psychic" phenomena may eventually be understood.
(02-16-2014, 08:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]However, it should be understood that the dishonest skeptic and dishonest believer are both dishonest. The believer could easily even be more dishonest and also much more lazy, falling back on the mere feeling engendered by the suggestion of transcendent notion. Either way, "the truth" is still left to discern in order to eventually become a legitimate part of the useful worldview, as any so-called "psychic" phenomena may eventually be understood.
What do you mean by dishonest skeptic/believer? You mean somebody who doesn't take enough effort to check his beliefs which he holds to be true?
(02-16-2014, 09:07 PM)Poet Wrote: [ -> ] (02-16-2014, 08:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]However, it should be understood that the dishonest skeptic and dishonest believer are both dishonest. The believer could easily even be more dishonest and also much more lazy, falling back on the mere feeling engendered by the suggestion of transcendent notion. Either way, "the truth" is still left to discern in order to eventually become a legitimate part of the useful worldview, as any so-called "psychic" phenomena may eventually be understood.
What do you mean by dishonest skeptic/believer? You mean somebody who doesn't take enough effort to check his beliefs which he holds to be true?
Yes, but there is always missing information of that which is "true", so the consequence to suffer is when overextending one's beliefs or skepticism past what they are actually capable of supporting. And in that suffering exists the complaints about which paradigms are not forthcoming.
(02-16-2014, 09:23 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but there is always missing information of that which is "true", so the consequence to suffer is when overextending one's beliefs or skepticism past what they are actually capable of supporting. And in that suffering exists the complaints about which paradigms are not forthcoming.
Now I see where you are going with your argument. But to complain about not forthcoming paradigms is not a necessary condition of suffering because one is overextending one's own beliefs. You can show discernment and nevertheless complain about not forthcoming paradigms imo. Although I see your point, I think one cannot do otherways than complaining about not forthcoming paradigms in science and other fields in these days.
(02-17-2014, 02:29 PM)Poet Wrote: [ -> ] (02-16-2014, 09:23 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but there is always missing information of that which is "true", so the consequence to suffer is when overextending one's beliefs or skepticism past what they are actually capable of supporting. And in that suffering exists the complaints about which paradigms are not forthcoming.
Now I see where you are going with your argument. But to complain about not forthcoming paradigms is not a necessary condition of suffering because one is overextending one's own beliefs. You can show discernment and nevertheless complain about not forthcoming paradigms imo. Although I see your point, I think one cannot do otherways than complaining about not forthcoming paradigms in science and other fields in these days.
That's only because other people and institutions make convenient targets for projection of unaccepted aspects of self when one's distorted worldview creates dissatisfaction. People do not like to solve their own problems.
