Bring4th

We have a thread exploring the effects (or lack thereof?) of playing video games on our spiritual path. The topic of how heavy metal music affects us came up in another thread, and I realized that we didn't have a thread devoted to this oh-so-important topic! I'll be moving the posts from that other thread here, so we can continue the discussion.

I was quite the metalhead in the 1970s. The typical 'classic rock' and the heavist music of our era - Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Judas Priest, Scorpions, Blue Oyster Cult (on all of these: before they went pop), etc.

Later, when I 'woke up' and started meditating, reading the Law of One, etc. I wanted to 'raise my vibration' so I sold most of my hard rock/metal albums and limited myself to ONLY New Age music (Kitaro, Vangelis, Yanni, Enya, etc.).

For about 15 years, I lived in a shell, musically speaking. I totally missed Metallica! But then, something in me hungered...I wanted to ROCK!

I started to timidly re-explore some of the music I had previously enjoyed, but had eliminated from my musical diet. I started with light, fluffy, 'pretty' music like Supertramp, Styx, etc., rationalizing that at least it wasn't dark or heavy. But I gradually uncovered the appetite for heavy music I'd had as a teen. It all seemed so familiar! I began to wonder: Is there anything wrong with rockin' out to some good JP?

Alas, the musical landscape had changed considerably. It's almost comical now that some people actually thought AC/DC were 'satanic' - their silly antics seem so tame in comparison the black/death metal bands, a few of whose members really have done atrocious, heinous things like burn churches and murder people.

But those are just a few exceptions. For the most part, I think most of the black/death metal bands are just updated versions of Black Sabbath - just normal guys who got caught up in a gimmick. But how do you out-heavy the mighty Sabbath? Heavy guitars aren't enough...so the voice had to change. Typical vocals are throaty, gutteral, growly...called 'harsh' vocals.

To me, these vocals sound like they're actually trying to sound demonic!

So, here is the question: Where do we draw the line? We all know of the experiments with rock music and plants. And that was tame music by comparison!

The irony is that many of these bands combine nasty (to me) vocals with breathtakingly beautiful music!

Say, what???

I am truly perplexed. What's their deal? I feel torn! Sometimes the music itself is so exquisite, that I actually tolerate the nasty vocals, just to hear the music! Sometimes they alternate between a growly vocal and a 'clean' vocal, often a beautiful female voice. So, overall, the music is maybe 90% exquisitely awesome and only 10% nasty.

Then there's the lyrics. Sometimes the music is so good that I'd rather not know the lyrics. Thankfully, I can't understand what they're saying and just hear the voice as an instrument. I tend to do that anyway - to me, intellectually deciphering lyrics is often a hassle, and takes away from the emotional experience of the music. This is true for me of the heavier music. Ballads are different - ballads are sing-alongs.

Anyway, I now not only have rediscovered my love for the music of my youth, but have even explored many of the newer bands - many of which I unapologetically love, but a few of which I find to be a somewhat guilty pleasure. If the music is dark, the lyrics negative, AND the vocals harsh, that's a no-brainer - it tends to grate on me and the lack of resonance makes it mandatory that I remove the cd at once! There are many bands that fall into this category and I cannot bear to listen to them.

But it's those that are of 'mixed polarity' musically that I wonder about. If, overall, I am enjoying the music and feeling uplifted, is that not what's important? Am I over-analyzing? Despite what I may be feeling, could I be getting harmed in some way by listening to music that is less than ethereal?

Where to draw the line? Or should there be a line drawn at all? Can we trust our desire to listen to the music, and not be concerned about it? Is this just my old religious programming rearing its head? (the same dogmatic programming that told me to burn my Led Zeppelin albums back in 1980 - Led Zep!!! Can you imagine? I now see Led Zep as among the greatest music of all time, some of their songs profoundly of the Light.)

This isn't a major issue for me - pretty much I just enjoy music, and if it doesn't feel pleasant, I turn it off. The only time I feel this perplexity is when I encounter the heavier symphonic black/death metal that is so beautiful except for the vocals. I am genuinely curious what sort of effect this has on us.

Hello Monica. I do not classify any music as "dark" or "negative", for they are the manifested intention of the wish to share an individual inspiration of what the person find beautiful.
Perhaps you experience some blockage in love, then please find comfort in that the world is not a dangerous and serious place. May you be afraid of that the experience will change you? The Moon in tarot, the card of change, is not an entirely positive one still.

I've had many a spiritual experience with 'darker/negative' music. I classified me as one of the 'goth' once, but I found that to be a very limited experience in the end. Today I do not wish to classify me as anything, as I believe by principle for that to be limiting and separating.
Well, I have a love for the night and things that are mystical and forbidden - yet I still do not wish to see anyone harmed and love all things. When you percieve music as dark, what do you think of the creators? Are they terrible, depressed and negative people, or may they potentially hold my principles of appreciation?

So, in the end I cannot even see the darkest of music as negative. There is love in all things, if you can find it.

Thank you for opening the thread Monica and Well said Aya

In music I like the animal/angel split. I like music that reflects both the animalistic as well as the the angelic nature of man. The opera chick versus the grunting hunchback in metal is a typical stereo type that falls well with me. Sort of like the beauty versus the beast. But rap music has this too to a level. Although Rap is much more busy with the act of justifying itself compared to metal. I don't feel there is good or evil in any of it. It's just what it is.

I think we must personally decide what is acceptable and what not. Music about agression isn't necisarily bad music. There's all kind of art focussing on agression. You'd have to shut down many museums if this were wrong. Man's basic tendency in coping with things is by writing poems, songs and making drawings about it.

I think some of the 'negative' effects that we subconsciously put together are what you might term the Law of Attraction when applied to the lyrics. (The idea that if you hear a music theme of some sort for instance, 'Let the bodies hit the floor'. Then you will attract that into your life.)

But I have recently begun to believe that the law of attraction, perhaps doesn't even really exist in such a neat package, and is a combination of telepathy, and various other things.

When I decided to believe that then I felt incredibly liberated. And made a rock song on my guitar. The irony.

(07-20-2009, 08:45 AM)Phoenix Wrote: [ -> ]But I have recently begun to believe that the law of attraction, perhaps doesn't even really exist in such a neat package, and is a combination of telepathy, and various other things.

Intriguing idea. I agree that the law of attraction certainly does not mean we attract whatever we associate ourselves with... There's an old magical principle where you have to forget everything about a magical act just after committing it. To allow the subconscious to execute the instructions without conscious interference. But this is just a pragmatic rule not one based in theory.

What do you think is really going on?

If you really want to test your mettle, try "Cradle of Filth". They're the most 'negative' band I've ever heard, and their lyrics very intelligent and witty in their obscene, dark and disturbing style.

(07-20-2009, 12:04 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Where to draw the line? Or should there be a line drawn at all? Can we trust our desire to listen to the music, and not be concerned about it?

I tend to think that any creative output - whether it's music, literature, art - is almost like a dance or a conversation between the person creating and the person interpreting that work for themselves. The exchange between the creator and the receiver of that work is a dynamic thing, and a piece of work can change it's meaning entirely for an individual over a period of time.

I used to be a goth chick, not so much into heavy rock, but i was also into classical, pop - all manner of music. However, I tend to think that the darker genres of music may very well be the most honest or the most transformative. I guess I'd view very dark lyrics as being similar to controversial art works - they're there to provoke a response - what that response is is very much down to the individual.

(07-20-2009, 01:54 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]If you really want to test your mettle, try "Cradle of Filth". They're the most 'negative' band I've ever heard, and their lyrics very intelligent and witty in their obscene, dark and disturbing style.

CoF is indeed an excellent example, and was actually one of the bands I had in mind. Their lyrics are absolutely nasty, but OMG the music is stunningly beautiful in places! The later albums, anyway, which got much more symphonic and lush. I don't care for their early stuff, which is more chaotic, and Dani's voice sounds like a disembodied wraith or banshee.

But the last 2 albums...yikes that is some incredible music! Musically, I mean, not taking into consideration the lyrics. Rise of the Pentagram, in particular, is an instrumental and is absolutely stunning!

???

I like to joke that when I listen to CoF, I just pretend Dani's singing about angels. But it's true! That's how some of the music makes me feel, and isn't that what counts? I think Dani's just pretending to be evil, anyway. I've seen interviews with him and I think it's all just a gimmick to him. Musically, he's quite a genius, imo.

There are other bands that are far darker than CoF, though, that are musically lush and beautiful, but still manage to emit a creepy vibe, not sure why. Dimmu Borgir comes to mind. That guy's voice really creeps me out.

Hi,
from my perspective I believe that music or anything created brings with it the vibration of intent and feeling of the person who made it. so to me the spiritual level of the person is put into what ever they make. so High spirtual beings like a Christ or a Master will put this vibration into whatever they do, design, sing, paint, cook ect. and everyone else also puts their own vibrations into whatever we do. Most people are just spirtual as far as a physical level or astrial level dealing with human emotions and their egos and thoughts. this is ok but doesn't bring the vibrations for spirtual upliftment or enlighenment or inspire self-realization, which is the real purpose of all of us humans being born on the earth.

if you listen to natural music or sounds from nature and animals they also bring their vibrations.

so whatever you listen to as music will affect you in some way according to the maker.
if the intent was made for harm then it will get to you. i'm sure their are some test made showing how some music is harmful with the intent and lyrics and tones that hurt, while some are pleasing and some may be spiritual uplifting. spiritual uplifting music is rare. it comes from a being who is closer in enlightenment to the creator and they no longer have a ego and so their energy is only the Loving divine coming through. this is very healing and helps the mind be calm and helps us to remember our souls true spirit nature.


I have been meditating with the Quan Yin method taught by Supreme Master Ching Hai for a very long time now from which I am able to listen to the inner living divine music called the celestial sound,
so now I find the outter music from regular people to be very harsh and only emotional not very spiritual, so I no longer need the outer music from people.

occationaly i do find very peaceful and nice music to listen to,
but I believe now at this time in history the negative forces have controlled most of the music industry and want to bring only harmful music to us.

it is good to remember that everything has energy fields and does affect us so it does matter what we listen to and if we want that affect or not.
pandaB

(07-20-2009, 10:08 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2009, 08:45 AM)Phoenix Wrote: [ -> ]But I have recently begun to believe that the law of attraction, perhaps doesn't even really exist in such a neat package, and is a combination of telepathy, and various other things.

Intriguing idea. I agree that the law of attraction certainly does not mean we attract whatever we associate ourselves with... There's an old magical principle where you have to forget everything about a magical act just after committing it. To allow the subconscious to execute the instructions without conscious interference. But this is just a pragmatic rule not one based in theory.

What do you think is really going on?

I'd love to see this discussion started in a new thread....

As to the spiritual effects of any type of music, I don't think there's going to be a one-size-fits-all answer to this. Myself, I trust my inner sense of balance to determine what's best for me to listen to. I do not receive the artist's energy or intent when I listen to music; the music itself is what affects me. Which is not to say that pandaB's experience is not equally true; I think it depends on individual perceptions/receptors. My own receptors pick of different aspects of the music is all I'm saying.

The thread has been more about heavy metal, but it seems much of the discussion has focused on lyrics, and I just wanted to toss out an observation: Jim Croce's "Tomorow's Gonna Be a Brighter Day", while beautiful, has always sounded to me like an after-the-beating remorse rant of an abusive spouse. Similarly, Alan Parsons Project's "Eye in the Sky" is one I think of as "The Stalker Song". Perhaps this speaks more to my own life experience - I was a domestic violence victim's advocate for nearly ten years - but who's to say what motivated the creation of these songs? Still, I enjoy both. To me, the lyrics describe and explore states of human experience - and do so in a thoroughly pleasant way.

And to take the discussion on a small side path: I enjoy reading for entertainment, and I really like scary stories... blood and gore are optional but completely acceptable if they move the plot forward appropriately. Same with movies: I love a good, dead-teenager zombie movie. I enjoyed when Mel Gibson was eviscerated in Braveheart. Sometimes a book or movie will deeply affect my mood - and I assume, on a temporary basis, my overall vibrational level - but again, it's for entertainment purposes and I don't believe anything I've ever read for entertainment has had a lasting negative effect.

Oh - and for the record, I love loud, head-bangin' music. Absolutely the best music to listen to while I'm driving, singing at the tops of my lungs when I know the words.
plur

Thanks for taking this and making it a thread Monica. So I had this big reply to this thread all typed up on my pc and it froze and deleted it all, so here I am starting over.

Well being a musician since I was chosen by the metal gods to be a metalhead and Iron Maiden and Metallica became my religion at age 11 or 12 perhaps.

Also didn't hurt that a very attractive older blond woman had corrupted me and gave me some Metallica and Guns and Roses stuff to jam out around age 11 and it just floored me. Don't Cry by GNR totally evoked some wierd love curiousity back in my wee young lad years. A year or 2 later becoming a guitarist, inspired by my uber talented friends from Mexico, we ended up forming a band and then years later we went some separate ways and back again into even more crazy Death and Black metal music.

Initially when they introduced me to the band Deicide (which was one of their favorites), it was really extreme to me as it was so very Anti-Christian and to a somewhat young kid who came from a Mormon background that is just crazy. The music was also too intense for me at the time, but later I somehow got into it more and I really started digging this crazy extreme stuff.


It all got even more intense from there with the likes of this band Emperor, The Notorious Black Metal band Mayhem, and more. I don't know what it was, but this music and ideology was so fascinating and the riffs and dark element was just so awesome. It had also been a few years since I broke away from my mormon teachings as they just did not make any sense to me.

Religion in general did not flow with me and I really did not understand it. With my crowd being a bunch of crazy satanic metalheads, I found myself following what they were into, although I did not necessarily understand it. I ended up forming my own band (The Obliterate Plague) and initializing some of these themes although it wasn't until later when I matured a bit, that I realized I didn't really support a lot of this ideaology, but the music sure was killer.

I still feel that way these days, and I still listen to all this crazy black metal (although Pink Floyd, The Cure, Led Zepplin are ever more present), but with this music such as black metal there are a lot of bands that really are serious and I don't know where I stand ya know. The Obliterate Plague is unfortunetly coming to its end due to many things, not just me going in a different direction, but thats a big part of it.

I have already started a new band (Dark Metal of course, without limits and even a more neo-classical element perhaps) in which I wanted to incorporate the likes of something more positive, still keep the element regarding metaphysics, new age, and even some spiritual stuff that came out of Obliterate. My goal is to have those subjects involved a lot more and get away from the typical black metal situation.

I mean I am still against religion in some ways, but I find myself being a lot more open minded and I don't hate people for what they believe as I used to. People can believe what they want to, it doesn't make them all bad people. Occasionally I find my misanthropic tendencies creeping in my veins, but I do hope for the best in the world.

So finally getting to the point. I still do really enjoy some sick and twisted negative metal. Does this really effect me. I read earlier about it possibly lowering the vibration, but what can one do? Black metal and death metal just has some very catchy sickness to it. I mean this band Mystifier from Brazil or say Mayhem from Norway. Mystifier is really satanic, but they sure are original and very talented musicians. It appeals to me very much musically and is very sick (I say sick a lot by the way and its a way to express how bad ass something is).

Mayhem is notorious for being involved with Church burnings, murders, and more, but they have almost fascinated me even more. The singer Attila is a very smart individual and very much interested in metaphysical stuff and I have a lot of respect for him as he reminds me of myself as in some interviews, I have noticed that he is very much seeking the answers to what is happening in the world as well. He is very curious of the old ancient gods, fascinated about the mighty monoliths of Baalbek, he expresses disgust of the manipulation of the world by the hidden hand, and the last Mayhem album Ordo Ab Chao seems to me, by lyrical interpretation to be a concept about the nephilim.

I think a lot of us are on a path of truth. To me I don't know where I would be without this music. Iron Maiden is still my favorite band and have saved me from numerous droughts in my life. I could very well be a metalhead for life.

Thanks for reading my words .

Peace and Perseverance my friends.

-Alex

(07-20-2009, 11:21 PM)pluralone Wrote: [ -> ]I'd love to see this discussion started in a new thread....

Done.
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...69#pid4269

(07-20-2009, 11:21 PM)pluralone Wrote: [ -> ]I think it depends on individual perceptions/receptors. My own receptors pick of different aspects of the music is all I'm saying.

Agreed! I love to rock, but many find rock to be abrasive/unpleasant.

(07-20-2009, 11:21 PM)pluralone Wrote: [ -> ]The thread has been more about heavy metal, but it seems much of the discussion has focused on lyrics, and I just wanted to toss out an observation: Jim Croce's "Tomorow's Gonna Be a Brighter Day", while beautiful, has always sounded to me like an after-the-beating remorse rant of an abusive spouse. Similarly, Alan Parsons Project's "Eye in the Sky" is one I think of as "The Stalker Song". Perhaps this speaks more to my own life experience - I was a domestic violence victim's advocate for nearly ten years - but who's to say what motivated the creation of these songs? Still, I enjoy both. To me, the lyrics describe and explore states of human experience - and do so in a thoroughly pleasant way.

Oh I definitely love a lot of music that deal with dark human emotions. I don't think that is a bad thing in itself. Many of those songs were the artist's way of dealing with that trauma, and the listener benefits by the expression of that which perhaps they can't express themselves. I consider the very best music to be that which explores our emotions in such a way as to bring them to the surface where they can be reviewed, expressed harmlessly, and, hopefully, transmuted.

My absolute fav artist of all time, Peter Gabriel, is a master at that. (We fans call him 'The Master.') He has a song for nearly every human condition! Feeling depressed? He has a song for it. Hopeless? Suicidal? Grieving the death of a loved one? He has a catalog of songs to choose from. What makes his music so special is that there is always an upliftment somewhere in the song...he has this way of reaching deep within our psyche, uncovering the pain, and then bringing it to the surface where it can be healed.

An excellent example is Digging in the Dirt, which starts out very angry, and focuses on the victim digging up his pain, but by the end of the song, he is wishing healing for the victimizer also. Powerful stuff!

Whenver I've felt down, it has often helped to play music that expressed my feelings. Rather than reinforcing the negative feelings, I find that such music helps me to heal them.

But that's not the sort of 'negative' I meant in my opening post. My confusion has to do with otherwise upbeat music that I enjoy while in a good mood, but, unbeknownst to me, the lyrics are much darker (maybe even violent) than the music sounds. A good example is Children of Bodom, whose music is very energizing to me, yet I'd rather not know what they're really singing about! Or, the black & death metal genre, whose music may be very lush and beautiful, but with occasional discordant, harsh vocals.

(07-20-2009, 11:21 PM)pluralone Wrote: [ -> ]Oh - and for the record, I love loud, head-bangin' music. Absolutely the best music to listen to while I'm driving, singing at the tops of my lungs when I know the words.
plur

Me too! It's very energizing, even exhilarating, to me.

---

Alex: Thanks for sharing. I truly do understand! Led Zep, Hawkwind & Black Sabbath were to me what Metallica & GNR were to you (though I am now a huge Metallica fan also!).

I can also understand why the heavy music has been appealing to you, as you broke free of the bonds of a religious path that no longer served you. I think rock music in general is all about breaking free of restrictions and dogmas.

There seems to be some bond between many of us and rock music, with some of us resonating with the heavier stuff as well. For me, it all started in the late 60s, when I yearned to be a part of the hippie movement, but alas, I was too young! The music had such a pull...it seemed so familiar...like we were all from the same planet or something, ha! That sense of familiarity is quite apparent at rock concerts.

The heavier stuff, as I said, i have mixed feelings about. I am familiar with all the bands you mentioned, and those I find too harsh vocally. However, there are some you are undoubtedly familiar with (CoB, DT, CoF) that are, er, rather borderline. So, even though I might draw the line just short of the stuff you're into, we're really splitting hairs here. The point is that I really do understand what you mean by its appeal.

At the same time, some of those bands sound too abrasive and, well, just negative to me. The best way I can describe it is that they are trying to sound 'demonic' and that just doesn't feel right to me. So I can't enjoy it.

My problem is that I can't quite put my finger on why some of it sounds 'demonic' and others sound absolutely wonderful. Strange, huh?

My son has asked me repeatedly to explain why some bands I like and others not. He then analyzes them and tells me they are of the same genre, and the voices similar. For example, Dark Tranquillity has harsh vocals, but for some reason they are acceptable to me. In fact, I find the music very melodic and emotionally evocative! I even went to see them live and the singer has a lot of light! He even smiled alot onstage! (Very strange for that genre!) But others whom my son says are similar in genre (sorry, can't think of an example right off) totally grate on me. This is what I'm trying to figure out.

Another example is Cradle, as compared to DB. The former sounds lovely to me while the latter sounds like heaven in some places and hell in others. ??

I thought maybe it was bias - as in, I couldn't handle DB because of what I knew about the self-professed STS leanings of its singer, but then, CoB has some lyrics that are quite violent. But when I met Alexi, he seemed like such a nice chap, that I just don't take his lyrics too seriously. And Mikail of Opeth seems like a really nice guy as well as a highly accomplished musician/songwriter - quite genius actually! - and yet I can tolerate his music only when he sings, not when he growls. I can't explain why his growling is intolerable to me, while the harsh voice of Mikail of DT is tolerable. I don't think it's just a taste thing - it seems to be a vibration thing.

To make matters worse, I fret about my son being influenced by this music (even though he has a huge, wide range of taste, ranging from The Cure to obscure Celtic folk metal, with an emphasis on black & death metal), but I actually like much of what he listens to. I kept him sheltered from heavy music when he was little (that was when I went thru my New Age music phase, so he grew up listening to Kitaro, with prog rock bands being introduced later) and allowed him to discover it on his own (which he surely did).

I can really get myself going round in circles if I think about it too much. Maybe I should just not worry about it and just enjoy it if I like it, ya know? Maybe I'm over analyzing.

Still, I am concerned about how it might be affecting me on a vibrational level, so I think there is much we can gain by discussing it.

(07-20-2009, 06:41 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]CoF is indeed an excellent example, and was actually one of the bands I had in mind. Their lyrics are absolutely nasty, but OMG the music is stunningly beautiful in places! The later albums, anyway, which got much more symphonic and lush. I don't care for their early stuff, which is more chaotic, and Dani's voice sounds like a disembodied wraith or banshee.

But the last 2 albums...yikes that is some incredible music! Musically, I mean, not taking into consideration the lyrics. Rise of the Pentagram, in particular, is an instrumental and is absolutely stunning!

???

I like to joke that when I listen to CoF, I just pretend Dani's singing about angels. But it's true! That's how some of the music makes me feel, and isn't that what counts? I think Dani's just pretending to be evil, anyway. I've seen interviews with him and I think it's all just a gimmick to him. Musically, he's quite a genius, imo.

There are other bands that are far darker than CoF, though, that are musically lush and beautiful, but still manage to emit a creepy vibe, not sure why. Dimmu Borgir comes to mind. That guy's voice really creeps me out.

Interesting, you suprise me with your musical taste Monica! Albeit I knew nothing of it, but some stereotypical ghosts still linger in my head...

Yes, they are instrumentally fantastic. "Cthulhu Dawn" in Midian comes to mind, also the song which serves as an intro to that one. "In golden mirrors" too

I think they're quite cuddly on the inside also. Dimmu Borgir I just laugh at (or with, if they take themselves as serious as I do...); their stuff being so overdramatised and bloated with the "devil" and "evil" that I just find it plain humorous.

---

It seems like we have quite a number of people listening to darker music, and still find the love within. I'm grateful to you for doing this, and not simply ignoring it after seeing the illusion of negativity.

---

AlexKawajima: Very interesting and humorous post, I enjoyed reading it.

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Monica. I do not classify any music as "dark" or "negative", for they are the manifested intention of the wish to share an individual inspiration of what the person find beautiful.
Perhaps you experience some blockage in love, then please find comfort in that the world is not a dangerous and serious place. May you be afraid of that the experience will change you? The Moon in tarot, the card of change, is not an entirely positive one still.

I understand your point and agree. The 'dark side of the Moon' is not to be feared or shunned, but embraced, integrated, and transmuted. It is not the darkness that makes me uncomfortable, but the blatant themes and vibrations of discord and violence.

I am perfectly ok with exploration of the deeper aspects of our psyche, but for me, lyrics that advocate violence or vocals that sound discordant have no resonance. I unapologetically reject them.

However, where I get ensnared is when the lyrics are unknown to me, or my distaste for the vocals overpowered for my love of the instrumentantal portion of the song.

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]I've had many a spiritual experience with 'darker/negative' music.

What would you consider darker/negative? Some might consider prog-rock bands of the 70s like Genesis to be such - Genesis was the original Goth band! Yet I love Genesis and find the music beautiful.

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]I classified me as one of the 'goth' once, but I found that to be a very limited experience in the end. Today I do not wish to classify me as anything, as I believe by principle for that to be limiting and separating.

Agreed!

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Well, I have a love for the night and things that are mystical and forbidden

I hae a love for the night, especially when there's a Moon! and for that which is mystical. Whether it's forbidden or not seems irrelevant to me. I don't want to explore that which is forbidden simply because it's forbidden - then those who deemed it 'forbidden' would have just as much power over me as they would if I avoided same because it was forbidden! (I hope that made sense, ha.)

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]- yet I still do not wish to see anyone harmed and love all things.

Same here. Therein lies my dilemma. Some of the lyrics of the newer bands are quite violent in nature. I'd rather not know what they're saying.

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]When you percieve music as dark, what do you think of the creators? Are they terrible, depressed and negative people, or may they potentially hold my principles of appreciation?

I don't really think of the music's creators. I certainly don't think of them as terrible. The art they create is but a reflection of an aspect of them. I don't judge them based on their art.

(07-20-2009, 03:51 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]So, in the end I cannot even see the darkest of music as negative. There is love in all things, if you can find it.

Absolutely agreed! But neither must I seek out the dark corners, necessarily.

---

(07-21-2009, 04:04 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting, you suprise me with your musical taste Monica!

Yeah, that's what everyone says!

(07-21-2009, 04:04 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Albeit I knew nothing of it, but some stereotypical ghosts still linger in my head...

?

(07-21-2009, 04:04 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, they are instrumentally fantastic. "Cthulhu Dawn" in Midian comes to mind, also the song which serves as an intro to that one. "In golden mirrors" too

I do like much of Midian. Not sure of the song titles, though. I find Dusk too chaotic, or maybe it's Dani's vocals. I know the purists say they got too commercial with Nymphetamine, but I prefer it. It's more polished and musically stunning.

(07-21-2009, 04:04 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]I think they're quite cuddly on the inside also.

I can't help but wonder how Dani would react if he knew we were describing his dark, obscene music as 'cuddly!' Oh, it would be fun to see his reaction!

(07-21-2009, 04:04 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Dimmu Borgir I just laugh at (or with, if they take themselves as serious as I do...); their stuff being so overdramatised and bloated with the "devil" and "evil" that I just find it plain humorous.

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Hmmmm....maybe I should try that. Maybe then I could enjoy them. They are musically amazing sometimes.

(07-21-2009, 04:04 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]It seems like we have quite a number of people listening to darker music, and still find the love within. I'm grateful to you for doing this, and not simply ignoring it after seeing the illusion of negativity.

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Thank you for that! I probably would never have brought up the topic, were it not for Taha and Ali (I think it was them) bringing up the topic of 'dark' music on another thread. I hope I don't lose my job! (just kidding!)

Seriously, I really am interested in how such music might affect us spiritually. Vibration is so important, and music is so powerful - especially music of this nature, which powerfully activates the lower chakras, then brings deep emotions up to the surface...I find the death/black metal genre particularly activating. I think as long as I am conscious of it, it can be positive. Sometimes I can't handle it and turn it off, and other times I find it cathartic. I am grateful to the artists for expressing what heretofore had been suppressed. The question is: Exactly what is happening chakra-wise when we listen to such music? I still seek the answer to this question.

(07-21-2009, 07:27 AM)Taha Wrote: [ -> ]What I find interesting - and I'm talking about myself here too - is why we seem to feel that 'higher' stuff is more 'spiritual' than 'lower' stuff? As Pluralone said in another thread, it isn't, and only living all of it will make us whole and help us integrate all parts of ourselves. We need to be firing on all 7, not spluttering along hoping that we're doing better by ignoring the parts of our engine that are holding us back.

Good point... We should definitely let go of these types of prejudices. Not just in chakra's by the way. There's the conception that our angelic nature is somehow better than the animal nature. And the conception that our rational mind or ego is somehow less than our spiritual intuition...

Only when all systems are integrated and working together in unison can the individual truly approach wholeness... And only from this personal wholeness can universal unity be approached. Any sort of preference or value judgment in my opinion is in the end an imbalance.

Music and play is an excelent and safe way to explore the parts of us that we are prejudiced against. I loved your story Alex, that Deicide was really extreme in your mind. But that this is also one of the qualities that caused you to really dig it. Opposites just attract.

And yes, it is really extreme from a theistic point of view. Homi cide means killing a man. Dei cide means killing a God. There's no way around the extremism of the music. Then again... It's just art.

I would personally not invest too much time on learning all the chakra's and correspondences. They're just a system. There's at least 5 different chakra systems. When you're writing you're not focussing on your hands. When you're walking you're not focussing on your feet. It's good to know how they work. But knowing this is not relevant in actually using them. If you want to learn how to use your hand... Just do it...

If you want to psychically see something. Don't focus on your third eye... Focus on what you want to see.

(07-21-2009, 07:27 AM)Taha Wrote: [ -> ]Someone asked me in a class one time about this 'higher' and 'lower' vibration question, along with, "Is it ok to like loud heavy metal music?" My instinctive answer was that to be really balanced and integrated we have to be firing on all chakras, not just some...
...What I find interesting - and I'm talking about myself here too - is why we seem to feel that 'higher' stuff is more 'spiritual' than 'lower' stuff? As Pluralone said in another thread, it isn't, and only living all of it will make us whole and help us integrate all parts of ourselves. We need to be firing on all 7, not spluttering along hoping that we're doing better by ignoring the parts of our engine that are holding us back.

We all know from the Law of One how important it is to balance all the chakras. And I agree that heavy metal music, even mild rock music, can be very energizing and nourishing to the lower chakras. I would even go farther and say that I have felt nourished on many levels, not just the root chakra, by the best of the music out there.

But that's not what I meant when I said 'lower the vibration.' I didn't mean 'lower' as in 'lower charkras.' Perhaps 'lower' was not a good choice of terms.

I wasn't referring to which chakra music affects at all.

I was referring to whether the music seems to be STO or STS in vibration.

I'm not sure whether music can even be classified as STO or STS. Surely the artist's intentions, thoughts, and emotions conveyed in the music have STO/STS leanings. If CoB's lyrics are about killing someone, that's decidedly STS in nature.

So my question had to do with allowing such STS influences into my own consciousness.

As I mentioned, to me personally, since, most of the time I don't even understand the lyrics anyway, the lyrics usually don't affect me nearly as much as the tone of the voice itself, and whether the music is harmonious or discordant. Music can be very, very heavy and still harmonious. Or, it can be discordant and chaotic. But even that doesn't bother me - if I don't like I'll simply not listen to it. What bothers me is stuff like Opeth or DB, who has lush, orchestrated, stunningly beautiful, yet the heaviest of the heavy music, accompanied by a voice that makes my skin crawl.

It is this incongruency that has me befuddled. I wonder how they do that. What sort of mixed polarity is at work here? And why do I have such mixed feelings about the music itself? I am not able to fully enjoy it, yet parts of it are so musically incredible that I find myself trying to tolerate the voice, and I'd rather not do that, because I don't want to develop a tolerance for it and ignore my initial feelings that it lacked resonance. The truth is that it both resonates and repels.

It's not like I'm worried about the state of my soul if I listen to it, or anything like that. I'm just trying to make sense of my mixed feelings about it, and of the nature of the music itself, since this harsh vocal trend is so prevalent in the metal scene now.

Anyway, I hope I clarified that it isn't about which chakras are affected, but about polarity.

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(07-21-2009, 07:27 AM)Taha Wrote: [ -> ]Yellow = control
Orange = sex

We have a thread over in the 'Sessions' sub-forum that deals with sexuality. I'd rather not get this thread off-topic, so I invite you to join the discussion over there. (NOT saying that this mention of the chakras was off-topic - it was very much ON-topic - but further analysis of the chakra system would be.) For now, I will just say that, in my understanding of the Law of One teachings about the chakras, the both control and sex encompass far more than a single chakra. I have some comments about sex encompassing ALL the chakras, but I will make those comments over on the other thread. Look for the thread with 'Sexuality' in the title. The thread's been inactive for awhile and could use some participation.

Hi Monica,

Your OP about metallica in general and Led Zeppelin in particular, reminded me of my favorite of their lyrics. One needn't be Led Zeppelin aficionado to recognize the song from which they come, but I must say that the lyrics speak to me more clearly now than they did in 1972. How is this for a description of Harvest?

Bring4th_Monica Wrote:If, overall, I am enjoying the music and feeling uplifted, is that not what's important? Am I over-analyzing? Despite what I may be feeling, could I be getting harmed in some way by listening to music that is less than ethereal?

My two cents: Yes, Yes, and No.

And she's buying the stairway to heaven.

Enjoy,

3D Sunset

Stairway to Heaven is most definitely ethereal! I consider it the greatest masterpiece of all time. Every note is perfect. It has the best guitar solo or all time. Robert's voice is emotional and magnificent. The lyrics are profound. I knew the lyrics were profound back then, but didn't understand why. Now, the lyrics take on a whole new meaning! Nothing has ever topped this masterpiece. We've all heard it a million times, but it's still the greatest masterpiece ever recorded.

(imho of course! OK, I'll stop gushing now. )

(07-21-2009, 07:27 AM)Taha Wrote: [ -> ]

AlexKawajima Wrote:I read earlier about it possibly lowering the vibration, but what can one do?

Live in all the 'vibrations'! There's so much concern with duality, with up and down, right and wrong, higher and lower vibrations, etc. But think about it; if you have kids, do you think you'd have got them by ignoring supposedly 'lower' energies and only loving a partner in 'higher' ways? Not at all. You may have had a wonderful, spiritual, loving and communicative relationship, but the idea of pulling each other's clothes off would have been just an interesting fancy. If that were the case for the world, end of human species.

Someone asked me in a class one time about this 'higher' and 'lower' vibration question, along with, "Is it ok to like loud heavy metal music?" My instinctive answer was that to be really balanced and integrated we have to be firing on all chakras, not just some. The evening progressed into quite a fun game, which is still interesting to try now and then.

Take a piece of paper, and list the 7 main chakras with one word which encompasses a perception of that chakra energy level. Ie., red = survival, orange = sex, etc. Now get others to use the same words, and make a few lists of kinds of people who fit certain a few chakra energies more than others, ie., the main ones they fit. It has to be very general, not about specific people. Here are some examples people came up with. (The same ones come up over and over, but of course depend upon the definition words. We used these definitions);

Violet = spirituality
Indigo = imagination
Blue = communication
Green = love
Yellow = control
Orange = sex
Red = survival.

So, some main 'types';

Sex, control, communication (orange, yellow, blue): Business person.
Love, communication, imagination (green, blue, indigo): Monk/Nun.
Sex, communication, imagination (orange, blue, indigo): Gay/Lesbian (and said so by some, in case you wonder).
Survival, control, imagination (red, yellow, indigo): Military forces guy/girl.
etc.

Remember, it's just a simple fun thing, not meant to be definitive. It is very interesting to look at what main chakra levels people are working at though, and match them up with types of characters in the world.

What I find interesting - and I'm talking about myself here too - is why we seem to feel that 'higher' stuff is more 'spiritual' than 'lower' stuff? As Pluralone said in another thread, it isn't, and only living all of it will make us whole and help us integrate all parts of ourselves. We need to be firing on all 7, not spluttering along hoping that we're doing better by ignoring the parts of our engine that are holding us back.

I really need to read up more the chakra's as I seem not to know too much about the colors. I started reading a really cool book about the chakra system at the bookstore that had a lot of good info, but I didn't get to really continue it and it pretty much already was erased from my brain.

So I bought this album yesterday by Deathspell Omega called Veritas Diaboli Manet In Aeternum: Chaining The Katechon (Haven't a clue what the title means, something about Diabolus I guess) Sheesh even the band name is pretty crazy, but boy do they sure come up with some really sick hypnotic black metal.

Not sure what to really think of this band. Coming from a musicians point of view my jaw is just dropped with the crazy musicianship and talent. Their ideas are obviously a bit in the background for the listener to dive into and figure out. I think that is pretty cool actually. I find myself doing just that most of the time. Havent done so yet with this album, but i find a lot of it fascinating, a lot of times there are themes about the cosmos, some orthodox religious stuff, quantum physics, and more.

Prog music is awesome by the way. I been jamming out the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer stuff this morning. Magma from france has got to be one of the most insanely crazy prog bands ever. I think someone discussed them here a few threads ago somewhere.

Anyways I guess I am stuck in this place where this music just really fits my taste, be it that it even promotes, violence, satanism, and other stuff. Doesn't mean that I agree with the ideology, but it sure is some sick music.

(07-21-2009, 01:18 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]I really need to read up more the chakra's as I seem not to know too much about the colors.

May I suggest Carla's new book?

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(07-21-2009, 01:18 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]Prog music is awesome by the way. I been jamming out the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer stuff this morning.

Check out the early Genesis, Peter Gabriel era. Early 70s.

I have also looked at it as transcending duality. That seems to be a good term, as its wierd cause I can listen to the most dark and even depressing music (Suicidal Black Metal or DOOM metal) and it puts me in a good mood.

The UK band My Dying Bride has some gothic/doom songs and it puts me in a wierd mood sometimes....but I really dig most of it, especially that crazy violin hahaha. The song "Cry of Mankind" is very beautiful although it seems very emotional. It doesn't really have that effect on me, but I have seen live performances of this song and the singer is very sad and crying at the same time when they play it. It is probably just a performance act, but it sure works to add something to the show.

A lot of it is quite beautiful, say where you have a band like Opeth, which you mentioned. One of their albums My Arms Your Hearse is a concept album that goes through the 4 seasons where it starts ends in the winter and starts in the spring. From Wikipedia, I finally after 10 years of loving this album got some idea of what it was all about.

"The album concerns a character who dies and becomes a ghost. The narrative on the ghost's existence revolves around the woman he loved. Frustration and suspicion make the character restless as he watches his loved one after his death, his soul in constant turmoil as he does not believe that she genuinely grieved his passing. Though his ghost's actual presence remains undetected, she feels a great sadness, and remains unwilling to accept his death".

Its a beautiful story and the album can fit both moods happiness, and despair.
Highly recommend this album Monica, if you haven't heard it already.

Alex: That was a great post. Really a good read, and thoroughly enjoyable -- not to mention completely on-topic (something I can't seem to manage), and nicely descriptive of your personal processes, which is something I have come to treasure in forum posts. *applause*

Monica: YOU ROCK! (pun unintended) Thank you for starting that thread!

Bring4th_Monica Wrote:Many of those songs were the artist's way of dealing with that trauma, and the listener benefits by the expression of that which perhaps they can't express themselves. I consider the very best music to be that which explores our emotions in such a way as to bring them to the surface where they can be reviewed, expressed harmlessly, and, hopefully, transmuted.

Well said.... I'll be looking up Peter Gabriel; I'm sure I'm familiar with the music - the name is familiar - but I'm not one who can connect songs with their artists' names. From your description, however, I'd have to say for me this kind of collection of songs regarding human processes can also be found in the music of Paul Simon. I'm also, and don't laugh, a huge Sting fan for similar reasons.

And the same is true for me (with some music), what you wrote about Gabriel's music -- sometimes it helps me process through things, and it does so without reinforcing the negative. I've found (bit of a side-note here) that sometimes writing in my journal, especially in regard to things toward which I feel anger, only serves to reinforce my anger. Similarly, there was a time when I would 'let off steam' while I was driving, thinking it would help me release some of my stress, but I found it just fed my anger response. Listening to loud, even angry, music while I drive, however, does help me release stress. It's an interesting difference. *one cocked eyebrow* Hadn't ever thought of it really before, but there it is.

Bring4th_Monica Wrote:But that's not the sort of 'negative' I meant in my opening post. My confusion has to do with otherwise upbeat music that I enjoy while in a good mood, but, unbeknownst to me, the lyrics are much darker (maybe even violent) than the music sounds. A good example is Children of Bodom, whose music is very energizing to me, yet I'd rather not know what they're really singing about! Or, the black & death metal genre, whose music may be very lush and beautiful, but with occasional discordant, harsh vocals.

Understood. For me, with things like this, I trust my 'inner knowing'; if there's something niggling inside me about the music I'm listening to, I change the station, fast forward, whatever. If not, I trust the music is ok for me.

Bring4th_Monica Wrote:My problem is that I can't quite put my finger on why some of it sounds 'demonic' and others sound absolutely wonderful. Strange, huh? ....

.... I can really get myself going round in circles if I think about it too much. Maybe I should just not worry about it and just enjoy it if I like it, ya know? Maybe I'm over analyzing.

Exactly what I was getting at: It might be that you don't need to put your finger on it; you might find that you can simply trust your underlying knowing. I understand that, for some, the trustworthiness of 'underlying knowing' has yet to be established, or that one's own sense of knowing has yet to be differentiated from other types of feeling/vibrational response/etc, but it seems to me, Monica, that you are (in my estimation) aware enough to trust your self.

Breaking free from religion: Gee. Perhaps another thread - about our perceptions regarding religion - might be warranted.... *wiggling eyebrows*

Bring4th_Monica Wrote:What bothers me is stuff like Opeth or DB, who has lush, orchestrated, stunningly beautiful, yet the heaviest of the heavy music, accompanied by a voice that makes my skin crawl.

It is this incongruency that has me befuddled. I wonder how they do that.

Backing up a bit, I got what you were aiming at regarding the effect of music possibly 'lowering' vibrations, that this was not a reference to chakra vibrations. I think your response - enjoying the music but feeling creeped out about the voices - is not a function intentionally evoked by the musicians. I think the response is inside your self; others may respond quite differently.

Taha Wrote:We filter some of what we receive into conscious awareness, but it's all there inside.

Yes, it's inside, but that doesn't mean there's a response to it. I think that's where the inner knowing comes in so nicely; if one's (inner) receptors are responding, then one who is aware will recognize the vibration of the response (positive or negative) regardless of whether there's a conscious and specific understanding of why the response has been triggered. But some things just don't trigger any response. This is where, for me, the trust comes in: I don't have to consciously understand the details regarding the vibrational response to know what to do about it (stop listening or turn up the volume).

AlexKawajima Wrote:I really need to read up more the chakra's as I seem not to know too much about the colors.

Yet another possible thread...

hee
plur

(07-21-2009, 01:58 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]The UK band My Dying Bride has some gothic/doom songs and it puts me in a wierd mood sometimes....but I really dig most of it, especially that crazy violin hahaha. The song "Cry of Mankind" is very beautiful although it seems very emotional. It doesn't really have that effect on me, but I have seen live performances of this song and the singer is very sad and crying at the same time when they play it. It is probably just a performance act, but it sure works to add something to the show.

Oh wow, my son just recently turned me on to MDB. Some of it has vocals too harsh for me, but OMG the singer is incredible! I even went so far as to say he's in the top 5 best vocalists of all time, and, coming from me, that is saying a LOT!!! And yes, the violin...mmmmm. I was just looking them up on youtube and found a song with some incredible violin, clean vocals, and OMG it was so awesome!! Great stuff!

I get what you mean. This music is deeply emotional, but I don't consider it negative. (At least not what I've heard so far.) I would liken it to Peter Gabriel-era Genesis. (I can pm some great Genesis/PG links if anyone is interested - I can send you the best footage. Just pm me.)

(07-21-2009, 01:58 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of it is quite beautiful, say where you have a band like Opeth, which you mentioned. One of their albums My Arms Your Hearse is a concept album that goes through the 4 seasons where it starts ends in the winter and starts in the spring. From Wikipedia, I finally after 10 years of loving this album got some idea of what it was all about.

Yes, I am familiar with the album (as well as all their others - they are my son's fav band). I have utmost respect for Opeth. I still have a problem with the harsh vocals, though.

(07-21-2009, 01:39 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2009, 01:18 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]I really need to read up more the chakra's as I seem not to know too much about the colors.

May I suggest Carla's new book?

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(07-21-2009, 01:18 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]Prog music is awesome by the way. I been jamming out the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer stuff this morning.

Check out the early Genesis, Peter Gabriel era. Early 70s.

Genesis is pretty good, I'll check out the Peter Gabriel stuff.
I will take your recommendation on Carla's new book. I have to finish the LOO still which I am in process of. I already added to my list.

(07-21-2009, 02:24 PM)AlexKawajima Wrote: [ -> ]Genesis is pretty good, I'll check out the Peter Gabriel stuff.

The Phil Collins era was light, fluffy, good pop, whereas the Peter Gabriel era was very serious and emotionally intense prog.

Well, my view on this subject, for what it's worth, is this:

Personally, I don't like dark and heavy music like you're talking about, because I am simply repulsed by it. Not very thought out, really, just a basic reaction to negativity, the same as I would feel if someone were saying things in a very angry or negative manner.

However, in trying to think of it in a more objective sense, I am reminded of something Ra said once. Unfortunately, I'm too lazy at the moment to try and look it up, but it went roughly to the tune of this: The questioner asked Ra some sort of question about dealing with the parts of ourselves that are less than angelic and certain desires, etc., to which Ra replied something like "All experiences are of the creator. All densities are of the creator, all acts. The desire of those of the confederation is not for you to avoid these things, but to experience them if you have the desire. For truly, it matters not. Any experience which is desired should be pursued." Or, you know, something like that. That's basically what I got out of it, I guess. So, in that light, while it does seem to me that this music does somehow (I would even say in an objective way, not just based on the person listening) seem to embody anger and certain "dark" emotions and things, I think that if you have a desire to listen to it, then you should. It seems to me that you ought to fully allow yourself to experience those things which it calls up in your mind, which are parts of yourself. And if you are able to love those parts of yourself and accept them without necessarily acting on them, then you have gotten one step closer.

However, I do also think that much of the reason certain people like certain types of music is purely chemical. That is, certain music produces certain neurochemicals or hormones, such as perhaps adrenaline and other stress-hormones in the case of angry music, or certain relaxed neurochemicals for new-age music, and people can become addicted to these chemicals just as much as they can pot, caffeine, cocain, or heroin (although obviously it's not as unhealthy as at least the last two). This may not be the case for everyone, but I do theorize that it is a contributing factor for many.

I think it's not so much what you actually do, but your intentions and how you react to it. Especially how you react, that's important. Allowing yourself to feel anger and even hatred, observing this from within and knowing that it is ONLY thoughts and emotions, and accepting it as just a particular pattern of vibration which arises from the creator like all others, and having a sort of neutral appreciation for it (like all other things), then you're on the right track. It's that attachment/aversion duality that gets us into trouble.

Personally, I don't have the desire to hear it, so I avoid it whenever possible, and put up with it when not.

Mr. Rabbit, you quoted that well enough (from memory!) for me to have recognized it, and I'm not familiar with much of the Ra materials at all. The quote left a deeply resonant impression for me, as it appears to have done for you, and I think this was a really good place to repeat it... Also, I personally prefer when members put these things into their own words, from their own understanding, so I appreciated that you did that, too. I'd not consider it "lazy" at all.

Just as an aside, stress hormones can be triggered by either negative or positive events: A wedding is often described as being "the best day of my life", but the stress hormones are a-pumpin'. Similarly, fun, upbeat music with beauty-inspired lyrics and a fast tempo can cause pretty much the same chemical response (production of stress hormones) as is caused by harsh, head-banging, etc, music. I think it's often more a matter of emotional response, as opposed to a chemical reaction. As another example, I mentioned Jim Croce's song, "Tomorrow's Gonna be a Brighter Day". There was a time when the song provoked me to very angry tears. On its surface, it's a fairly fluffy, upbeat, catchy tune, but my emotional response was quite strongly negative. Yes, there are physical elements to emotional responses; I'm not saying it's exclusively one or the other. I'm saying it can be both, and to varying degrees.

Boy have I blabbered enough in the forum today! Someone shut me the heck up, will ya? Sheeeesh!

"log off"
*click*

I was going to recommend this band called Ava Inferi. It is some of the most beautiful almost angelic sounding doom metal stuff. This band is from Portugal and suprisingly enough is the new band from Blasphemer (aka Rune Eriksen) who used to be the guitarist in the notorious black metal band Mayhem.

This is quite a departure from Mayhem, but it is still some really fantastic stuff. The singer has one of the most beautiful voices I have ever heard. I been listening to the new album Blood Of Bacchus quite a bit. I am hoping to add some of this style into to my new band I have formed. If only I could get someone with such a lovely voice.

They have a myspace or last.fm if you wanna search it. I highly recommend it.

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(07-22-2009, 11:21 PM)MisterRabbit Wrote: [ -> ]Well, my view on this subject, for what it's worth, is this:

Personally, I don't like dark and heavy music like you're talking about, because I am simply repulsed by it. Not very thought out, really, just a basic reaction to negativity, the same as I would feel if someone were saying things in a very angry or negative manner.

However, in trying to think of it in a more objective sense, I am reminded of something Ra said once. Unfortunately, I'm too lazy at the moment to try and look it up, but it went roughly to the tune of this: The questioner asked Ra some sort of question about dealing with the parts of ourselves that are less than angelic and certain desires, etc., to which Ra replied something like "All experiences are of the creator. All densities are of the creator, all acts. The desire of those of the confederation is not for you to avoid these things, but to experience them if you have the desire. For truly, it matters not. Any experience which is desired should be pursued." Or, you know, something like that. That's basically what I got out of it, I guess. So, in that light, while it does seem to me that this music does somehow (I would even say in an objective way, not just based on the person listening) seem to embody anger and certain "dark" emotions and things, I think that if you have a desire to listen to it, then you should. It seems to me that you ought to fully allow yourself to experience those things which it calls up in your mind, which are parts of yourself. And if you are able to love those parts of yourself and accept them without necessarily acting on them, then you have gotten one step closer.

However, I do also think that much of the reason certain people like certain types of music is purely chemical. That is, certain music produces certain neurochemicals or hormones, such as perhaps adrenaline and other stress-hormones in the case of angry music, or certain relaxed neurochemicals for new-age music, and people can become addicted to these chemicals just as much as they can pot, caffeine, cocain, or heroin (although obviously it's not as unhealthy as at least the last two). This may not be the case for everyone, but I do theorize that it is a contributing factor for many.

I think it's not so much what you actually do, but your intentions and how you react to it. Especially how you react, that's important. Allowing yourself to feel anger and even hatred, observing this from within and knowing that it is ONLY thoughts and emotions, and accepting it as just a particular pattern of vibration which arises from the creator like all others, and having a sort of neutral appreciation for it (like all other things), then you're on the right track. It's that attachment/aversion duality that gets us into trouble.

Personally, I don't have the desire to hear it, so I avoid it whenever possible, and put up with it when not.

Yeah I just have a taste for this music. I can't remember who, but someone I know said that this music chooses you, not the other way around. Iron Maiden had that affect on me when I was younger, and I couldn't have been "blessed" more to have been baptised in the metal of such an awesome band.

Its unfortunate that my mother is no longer alive, because I was named after a mexican guitar player name Alex who my mother was friends with. I would really like to be able to find out more about my background if possible and about this guy Alex. This led me to believe I may have been a musical person in my past life. As far as Dark Music goes, I just found that path and am very attracted to it. I also wear all black clothing all the time as its the only color I feel suites me. I feel very comfortable with the night and it is very spellbinding, just about anytime I am wandering about in the night hours. Who knows what that says, about the color black.

Plur, after you mentioned your past life situation in the Argh II thread, I recalled about being musical in my past life per the person I was named after being a guitar player. The only thing I know is that I was named after a guitar player, and ironically that is what I became.

Dr. Bruce Goldberg (Re-incarnation specialist, hypnotherapist) who was on Coast to Coast am a few weeks back mentioned that names and traits are lined up and are not chosen by randomness. It was meant to be that way all along. I am not sure my take on Dr. Goldberg, but that would seem to be in line with the re-incarnation line that I may come from. Perhaps I was born with the tendency to be so musical.

True, the patterns of hormones which are released are complex, and human emotions doubly so. It can be different from person to person, for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB9ynchyK...re=related

You know, I sometimes miss the mosh pit. In the old days people used to have those pseudo epileptic seizures. These day's its all about looking cool.

Am I getting old? Get off my lawn!