Okay fans! Here's the ultimate thread to take off in different directions. I'm not sure where it will go, but we'll see. On this thread we can discuss anything at all, it is open to any discussion that is allowed by the Bring4th Guidelines. As the topics "come and go, talking of Michelangelo" so to speak (OT: 3 points for the first responder to identify the title/author of that quotelette), I encourage everyone to experiment with ways to easily identify subthreads for others to follow and/or attempt methods to bring the discussion back to the OP (be careful software developers, this may get you caught in a infinitly recursive loop).
If you feel the above paragraph has not offered enough fodder to begin the experiment, then please add your own thoughts. It is my sincere hope that through these experiments we can all develop some tools to help make the forum a little easier to navigate.
Love and Light,
3D Sunset
I am a little uncertain about your intended goal 3D Sunset. Could you describe the goal in a few simple sentences?
Right now I have the feeling I'm asked to follow free association and just throw out what I think about when I see your message.
I looked up recursion in the dictionary...
dictionary Wrote:Recursion: See Recursion
(07-30-2009, 09:26 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]"come and go, talking of Michelangelo"
Is Thomas Stearns Eliot what you're looking for?
(07-30-2009, 11:02 AM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2009, 09:26 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]"come and go, talking of Michelangelo"
Is Thomas Stearns Eliot what you're looking for?
YES! We have the author... now, can you name the poem?
3D Sunset
(07-30-2009, 10:40 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]I am a little uncertain about your intended goal 3D Sunset. Could you describe the goal in a few simple sentences?
Right now I have the feeling I'm asked to follow free association and just throw out what I think about when I see your message.
I looked up recursion in the dictionary...
dictionary Wrote:Recursion: See Recursion
Hi Ali,
A little background. There have been some comments made on other threads that people are surprised to see what a thread has morphed into (so to speak), and they frequently discuss topics far removed from the thread's title. Thus, it is often difficult or impossible to know what topics are being covered in a thread without reading it all. This problem is compounding as the number of members and threads increases, and we would all like a way to better focus our attention on topics of interest to us, but do want to inflict more work on the moderators (or inflict more moderator intervention on us
).
So, I thought it might be fun to free associate a little bit, and use this as a sandbox for trying out ideas of how to manage these streams of consciousness, how to nudge people back on topic, and when a sub-thread might warrant its own thread. My hope would be that we can then pick the best results and start applying them to our posts and better self-moderate.
By the way, with this and my earlier reply, I have begun using one way to track sub-threads, that is by changing the "Post Subject:" line of the response from that of the thread to that of the new sub-thread. Future posts that are replies to this sub-thread will default to the new Subject.
So feel free to post whatever you like, but don't be surprised if you're called on it!
Make more sense?
3D Sunset
[Edit] Wow, I just got burned by the system. I actually posted two replies, one with the subject above, the other with the subject :"More about the purpose of this thread". But the the system scooped me, by concatenating my two successive post into one. Is there a work around for this feature?
(07-29-2009, 08:28 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]The kind folks from the flat earth society would argue with you that the earth is indeed round... But like a pancake.
Oh wow. I lol'ed so hard that my head began to hurt, as did my gut. So I went to the flat earth society website and forum, just to poke around a bit, and they are totally cereal. They also get really mad when folks tell them the earth is round like a ball and not a pancake.
These are forums that I think I can get a reall kick out of trolling.
Maybe when I start spending more time online again.
Anyway buenos dias amigos!
Btw what happened to Taha? I noticed that he and his posts seem to be missing. Whats the story on that? I do love a good story!
To "keep a thread on topic" you would have to outline all limitations of a set universe (the thread).
As this cannot realistically be done, I cannot see the relevance in enforing this - for that would be the only way. We are humans, we associate. I see it as fully natural that a thread becomes 'off-topic', thus the concept of 'off-topic' is not relevant in the first place.
So in practice, we can attempt to outline the limitations of the thread, but cannot enforce them as it would be very cluttered to create a new thread for every post.
Perhaps you should try to look at your relation to this problem more objectively, 3D Sunset. Is this something that brings you personal distress?
(07-30-2009, 12:16 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]To "keep a thread on topic" you would have to outline all limitations of a set universe (the thread).
As this cannot realistically be done, I cannot see the relevance in enforing this - for that would be the only way. We are humans, we associate. I see it as fully natural that a thread becomes 'off-topic', thus the concept of 'off-topic' is not relevant in the first place.
Perhaps you should try to look at your relation to this problem more objectively, 3D Sunset. Is this something that brings you personal distress?
You have such a poetic simplicity about the way you describe things. The wall of text does tend to fall on me when I look at it. Anyway what I am getting at is there is a grace about you Ayadew!
wonderfull thread 3d
Thank you airwaves, I try to keep it simple. Perhaps because these wall of text often "crits me for 1 million damage" in real life.
(07-30-2009, 12:24 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you airwaves, I try to keep it simple. Perhaps because these wall of text often "crits me for 1 million damage" in real life.
LMAO! Ouch thats a heavy crit man. Throw on gear with some res!
Edit: omg i still cant stop lol'ing at that one!
3D: Regarding your thoughts of easier navigation, yes that is a point. But what is a "thread" for you, if so?
I see them as a container for associations with sometimes a common theme, sometimes not, and often a 'thread' running through the whole conversation which you can track.
Airwaves: Don't forget to breathe
(07-30-2009, 12:31 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Airwaves: Don't forget to breathe
Its ok, Its ok.......... I found a healer
(07-30-2009, 12:31 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]3D: Regarding your thoughts of easier navigation, yes that is a point. But what is a "thread" for you, if so?
I see them as a container for associations with sometimes a common theme, sometimes not, and often a 'thread' running through the whole conversation which you can track.
Airwaves: Don't forget to breathe
Fair questions my fine friend. It would seem to me that a thread is whatever we choose to make it. When I create threads I feel that I take on a certain amount of honor/duty to maintain it, if you will, for the benefit of all who browse by. That said, I readily recognize that this attitude is not shared by all thread creators, and indeed even for those that do, sometimes threads take on a life of their own and march in their own direction. I am reminded of the quote (OT:3 points for the source): "I must see where the crowd is headed, for I am their leader."
Given the growth in number of threads and members though, I would suggest that some amount of truth in advertising is helpful for all to recognize the topics that interest them. I generally use this as a guide when deciding if a thought is part of an existing thread or deserving of it own.
To be clear though, it is not my goal to produce and enforce a set of protocols for the creation and maintenance of threads. Rather, I would simply like for us to discover some techniques/tools that forum members may choose to use to better maintain the threads that they create and on which they post.
Further I agree that there is a need and a place for those that prefer to let things "grow wild", as it were, and prefer the jungle threads that may/do result. To each his own, and to you, yours as well.
3D Sunset
I'm intrigued 3D...
A nut to crack. Lets try to figure out some method of doing this..
I feel exactly what you're speaking about when I organize my thoughts I always follow some hierarchical outline or graph. But it's hard to translate this into a forum.
Quote:So feel free to post whatever you like, but don't be surprised if you're called on it!
What... this isn't a consequence free environment?
*snip* *snip* *snip*
Quote:Make more sense?
Thank you for your explanation it is clear to me now. And I will try to do my bit to help out and think along.
There's thread view mode in your options, would that help? It will show replies in a tree view. It won't however separate branches into new topics and it won't help if people respond to different posts in one reply.
I would suggest that it needs to be a trivial system to use to reduce the threshold for people to participate and the cognitive load on the participants.
Also are there plugins that already do this? We're not likely the first encountering this issue and a lot of people build plugins. Maybe someone out there invented something.
(07-30-2009, 12:12 PM)airwaves Wrote: [ -> ]By the way what happened to Taha? I noticed that he and his posts seem to be missing. Whats the story on that? I do love a good story!
Taha... Taha who? I question if Taha really existed at all, or was he simply a conspiracy created by STS entities to increase our sense of separation and loss. Or perhaps we phase shifted over to another reality wherein Taha was mostly, but not completely removed.
The sooner that we move beyond these self limiting concepts of "missing" and "happened", and "stories", the sooner we can focus on what's really important like keeping threads on topic.
Taha you say? Well I say Tata!
3D Sunset (tongue firmly planted in cheek)
(07-30-2009, 11:14 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]YES! We have the author... now, can you name the poem?
Maybe The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.....
(07-30-2009, 01:24 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]Taha you say? Well I say Tata!
3D Sunset (tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Hannibal Lecter in disguise. But yes, his disappearance is sudden... a bright, intensive flame as it were.
Well, he shall be with me in thought but apparently not in forum!
(07-30-2009, 02:50 PM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2009, 11:14 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]YES! We have the author... now, can you name the poem?
Maybe The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.....
SCORE!
A full three points is hereby awarded to Pickle. So noted. Please guard these points like the treasure that they are. At some point in the near future they can be exchanged for a life sized cut out of ayadew contemplating "the high untresspassed sanctity of space" (OT: 2 point bonus for this quotette's title/author ).
Keep up the good work,
3D Sunset
I quite enjoyed the high flight with my friend John Gillespie. Please do not make me cut myself.
(07-30-2009, 03:10 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]I quite enjoyed the high flight with my friend John Gillespie. Please do not make me cut myself.
Tally Ho! ayadew, and you get the bonus points. I hope you can forgive my "cutting up" as it were. It was intended in your honor, not at your expense.
Current Score:
ayadew : +2
Pickle: +3
Still unawarded points: +3
Now, what were we talking about?
3D Sunset
(07-30-2009, 01:16 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]There's thread view mode in your options, would that help? It will show replies in a tree view. It won't however separate branches into new topics and it won't help if people respond to different posts in one reply.
Hi Ali,
I had played with Thread View a lttle earlier, but I didn't notice the map at the bottom until you pointed it out. I think this, combined with updated subject lines when sub-threads or tangents occur could be very useful tools in tracking the thoughts in a thread without too much overhead. Still, to use this successfully would require some amount of discipline on the part of our users, and the word discipline just sounds so controlling and STS, doesn't it?
Oh well, what are we to do. Thanks again for pointing that out, I've begun using already.
3D Sunset
By asking this question, am I on topic?
As far as I am concerned, since this is a forum centered around the concept of freedom and growth/learning, discussion may be allowed to evolve naturally. As long as our goal is learning, perhaps the movement of a conversation is something to be embraced, and not enforced. Each individual gets a vote on where the discussion will proceed, by adding his/her own comments to the discussion. That process is already built into the nature of communication, so there's not much we need to do.
(07-30-2009, 05:24 PM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]By asking this question, am I on topic?
Yes, thank you.
(07-30-2009, 05:24 PM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I am concerned, since this is a forum centered around the concept of freedom and growth/learning, discussion may be allowed to evolve naturally. As long as our goal is learning, perhaps the movement of a conversation is something to be embraced, and not enforced. Each individual gets a vote on where the discussion will proceed, by adding his/her own comments to the discussion. That process is already built into the nature of communication, so there's not much we need to do.
What you say is certainly true, but even so the issue becomes one of accessing or indexing those topics that are of interest to the readers. Here's an example: When I grew up there were only 4 television stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS), so it was very easy to determine if something was on that I wanted to watch. Just turn on the TV and flip through the 4 channels. Yes or no, done deal. The same was true when the forum was younger. There were just a few threads and a few posters and one could quickly browse through what had been posted since our last visit.
Today though, it is somewhat more difficult to tell because of the increased number of threads, number of posters, and complexity of each thread. Sort of like being faced with 500 TV channels now on cable. Compounding this issue is the fact that each thread may contain multiple unrelated topics. So the question is: how does one know what topics are being discussed without laboriously reading each post?
3D Sunset
(07-30-2009, 06:41 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]So the question is: how does one know what topics are being discussed without laboriously reading each post?
3D Sunset
They do not, and never will, unless you outline all the limits of the thread which is impossible by the limitation of 'time'.
I'm sure this process would be much easier with telepathy.
(07-31-2009, 04:33 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure this process would be much easier with telepathy.
Coming Soon In A 4d Near You!
(07-30-2009, 06:41 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]Today though, it is somewhat more difficult to tell because of the increased number of threads, number of posters, and complexity of each thread. Sort of like being faced with 500 TV channels now on cable. Compounding this issue is the fact that each thread may contain multiple unrelated topics. So the question is: how does one know what topics are being discussed without laboriously reading each post?
The use of quotes as we are doing here can help with this. By knowing exactly what is being responded to, a person can find those posts within a thread that concern their interests.
An easy way for a person to ask questions about certain information could be helpful. The most direct way to know exactly what information is in a thread is ask those who have taken part in that discussion. If there was a place in the forum dedicated to the requesting and trading of references, people could find recent discussions about topics they wanted to discuss/learn about. If no one responded with knowledge of such a topic, then there would be reason to start one.
One easy thing to do is this; if a particular thread has a title that might not indicate clearly what the discussion is about, people participating could suggest a more apt name to the user who started said thread.
Aside from these things, in larger forums it is often useful to use the forum 'search' feature. Although it doesn't guarantee you'll find what you want, it can be quite useful, and has several options.
The type/theme/topic of discussion desired by the person starting a certain thread can be clearly stated in the first post. People who are deviating from the stated topic can be aware when they are doing so and make efforts not to move too far away from the original intention of the topic's originator. In general, it can be encouraged that every post in given thread somehow "tie in" to the original topic, although I feel that this need not be strictly enforced.
These thoughts may be helpful. I do not know of anything else to add, at the moment.
(07-31-2009, 11:53 PM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]...although I feel that this need not be strictly enforced.
Key word
enforced. Who would enforce those guidelines, and how?
I was a mod on another forum for a very short while, and we lost a lot of people over there due to perceived censorship and too-strict enforcement of their rules. So I anticipate a challenge finding a reasonable balance between enforcement of guidelines and allowing our members freedom. Since I've been mod here, I've only deleted 2 threads and have only edited someone's posts on one occasion. I think that's pretty amazing! (Everyone here ROCKS!) But even those few incidents stirred up a bit of controversy. I can only imagine how much more indignation there might be if we started policing all the little diversions and tangents that typically show up on threads. We do try to get threads back on topic if they get totally derailed, but that's very subjective. Sometimes what appears to be a tangent at first glance ends up much more interesting than the original topic! (judging by the participation)
A good example is what happened on the
Argh! thread. It got totally away from the OP and into an in-depth discussion about the morality of music pirating. But no one seemed to mind, and, in fact, the discussion got quite lively! I was thinking that the thing to do in that case would be to simply add a few more descriptive words to the title. Thread titles can be edited to reflect the evolving discussions.
(08-04-2009, 03:59 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I was a mod on another forum for a very short while, and we lost a lot of people over there due to perceived censorship and too-strict enforcement of their rules. So I anticipate a challenge finding a reasonable balance between enforcement of guidelines and allowing our members freedom. Since I've been mod here, I've only deleted 2 threads and have only edited someone's posts on one occasion. I think that's pretty amazing! (Everyone here ROCKS!) But even those few incidents stirred up a bit of controversy. I can only imagine how much more indignation there might be if we started policing all the little diversions and tangents that typically show up on threads. We do try to get threads back on topic if they get totally derailed, but that's very subjective. Sometimes what appears to be a tangent at first glance ends up much more interesting than the original topic! (judging by the participation)
thanks for your thoughts Monica. There's nothing like personal, first hand experience to shed light on an issue.
namaste!
ps, I think I know of that 'perceived censorship' of which thou speak.
current stats for 'that place':
Quote:Currently Active Users
There are currently 39 users online. 1 members and 38 guests
GHOST TOWN!!
(07-29-2012, 08:57 AM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]ps, I think I know of that 'perceived censorship' of which thou speak.
current stats for 'that place':
Quote:Currently Active Users
There are currently 39 users online. 1 members and 38 guests
GHOST TOWN!!
Oh wow are you serious? I thought it was much larger and always had lots of active participants.
I generally enjoy keeping threads on topic simply because I may want to refer back to your post later for further reference. If I am trying to find your interresting tangent in a completely unrelated post, I either need to remember a keyword in your post so I can search for it with the search function or I'm just SOL in finding your thought-provoking post. A friendly suggestion might simply to reply with with something like "Your post <insert quoted post here> reminded me of<insert brief summary of a story/anecdote/amusing thought here> <insert link to other thread you created or found similar to the concep you want to express" if you are going to go out on a tangent to make it easier on anyone who might want to refer back to a what someone found to personally profound post.
The reason many leave or don't log in is because of the aggression/negativity from some fellow members.
This place has become like a religious sect in itself.
Nobody wants to talk about their thoughts and feelings and in return get a rabid, seething response.
There is just too much of that here.
(08-01-2012, 12:30 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ] (07-29-2012, 08:57 AM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]ps, I think I know of that 'perceived censorship' of which thou speak.
current stats for 'that place':
Quote:Currently Active Users
There are currently 39 users online. 1 members and 38 guests
GHOST TOWN!!
Oh wow are you serious? I thought it was much larger and always had lots of active participants.