Hello everyone,
I recently purchased the Law of One books 1-4 and am worming my way through them now. I read a session last night (
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...ook_1.aspx) that has me hungry for more insight... see below:
Quote:Questioner: Thank you. Can you tell me of the first known thing in the creation?
Ra: I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.
I've always been fascinated with the beginning of all creation, although it seems my human mind just isn't wired to accept that there is a start or end to time, or that time doesn't exist, or that time has always existed. Perhaps it goes back to the concept of infinity... and it may well be that true understanding just isn't available to me at this stage in my development. But I shall try regardless! What do you suppose Ra means, 'the first thing is infinity'? Does this mean essentially that there is no subtle or non-subtle beginning, or that nothing existed? (same thing??)
Quote:Questioner: From this infinity then must come what we experience as creation. What was the next step or the next evolvement?
Ra: I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.
This is equally baffling to me. 'Infinity became aware'... so we are talking about a tangible something meaning infinity? I am figuring here that 'something' known as infinity became consciousness. What exactly is infinity in this case? And since it seems logical to me that if something became consciousness, there had to first exist something to form in to that consciousness. Or is the basic idea that consciousness sprung from nothingness? Also- can we deduce that this statement is essentially speaking to the birth of God? So God had a beginning (when infinity became aware)?
Quote:Questioner: After this, what came next?
Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.
Yeah, still lost here. Awareness (or consciousness, god?) led to the focus of infinity (again, what exactly is being focused??) in to infinite energy?
I'm a little lost on the later segments on this transcript as well, but I think this is sufficient confusion to at least start the thread.
I look forward to your take on these statements.
(08-02-2009, 11:34 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a little lost on the later segments on this transcript as well, but I think this is sufficient confusion to at least start the thread.
I look forward to your take on these statements.
Hi Lavazza,
Here's a link to a thread that addresses your question from various perspectives. Note that this is not intended to fully answer your question, just to set the stage for more questions and discussion.
Let me know if this helps.
3D Sunset
(08-02-2009, 11:34 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Questioner: Thank you. Can you tell me of the first known thing in the creation?
Ra: I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.
I've always been fascinated with the beginning of all creation, although it seems my human mind just isn't wired to accept that there is a start or end to time, or that time doesn't exist, or that time has always existed. Perhaps it goes back to the concept of infinity... and it may well be that true understanding just isn't available to me at this stage in my development. But I shall try regardless! What do you suppose Ra means, 'the first thing is infinity'? Does this mean essentially that there is no subtle or non-subtle beginning, or that nothing existed? (same thing??)
Infinity is countless.
The first thing is countless.
There are infinite first things.
There are infinite creations.
A simple turn of the words will give you what you are looking for. It is never as complicated as it seems. The veil just messes us up here in our 3d illusion and we are wired to think it is all so complicated. The answer is always inside you my friend.
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The concept of "infinity" looking around and going "well here I am" is rather humorous isn't it? Its a paradox so thats probably exactly what happened.
hiya lavazza
those passages have always stood out for me too but to be honest i have never really tried to grasp the meaning of them or understand them
i just don't think i can
what has always struck me about them is that those lines almost sing with the beauty of creation - they are such spectacularly elegant statements
(08-02-2009, 04:22 PM)Lorna Wrote: [ -> ]hiya lavazza
those passages have always stood out for me too but to be honest i have never really tried to grasp the meaning of them or understand them
i just don't think i can
what has always struck me about them is that those lines almost sing with the beauty of creation - they are such spectacularly elegant statements
Well said!
So if Infinity was the first creation, then the creation or this creation IS infinity. Infinity is what the creator CREATED. within this creation in analogical sence layers began to form. the first of which being awareness of itself.
For infinity to be aware of itself it must first explore all that it is every possability. (skipping a couple of 'layers') maybe there was one physical universe, then 2, then 4 etc etc. If everything is to be expereinced then there is to be an observer also, maybe forcing the happening of duality.
With duality, Infinity is opposed to nothing, or lack of infinity.
Another way for infinity to be aware of itself is to find out what it is NOT.
Meh, I'm thinking out loud. I think the main point in relation to the first post is that infinity is the creation. Everything we know is inside infinity. The creator is outside of infinity as it had to have been around before infinity was created. In other words what is created has a creator.
Hope this helps in some abstract way or other
Love and Light
Thanks everyone for your input! As I expected would be the case, I have only marginally improved my understanding of the start of creation, but even that small part has made it worthwhile.
It seems from reading your responses and the responses in the thread linked by 3D Sunset, that what would help the most would be coming to terms with the concept of infinity and the creator being likewise infinite. This eliminates the confusing questions like "Where did the creator come from, what was before the creator", etc. And yet, Ra does give that at some point Infinity became aware, which suggests that at some point it was not aware, which leaves the door open for "Why did infinity become aware? What caused infinity to become aware?" Realizing of course that explanations for such may never be available to us behind the veil. But it is fun to wonder.
As a side thought, where do you suppose the big bang fits in here? My assumption over the several years has been that our known universe started with a big bang type event, but that it may have been only one in a multitude of infinite other big bangs which spawned unknowable other universes that we are not aware of. I suppose if we go back to the concept of an INFINITE creator, this surely must be the case.
(08-02-2009, 12:55 PM)airwaves Wrote: [ -> ]It is never as complicated as it seems. The veil just messes us up here in our 3d illusion and we are wired to think it is all so complicated. The answer is always inside you my friend.
I thought we are not supposed to understand these kinds of mysteries within this incarnation. As much as I "twist" words around, there is no possible way for me to come close to understanding what any of this infinity stuff means. We have no base or concept to associate "infinity" to since we are conditioned throughout life that everything has its own space/time beginning and end. So when we try to say that creation is infinity, that tells me the creation never had a start or never had an end yet. But if it never had a start, then how could the first "known thing in the universe" be infinity?
A spring just sprung in my head and I am now smoking... I'm done for the rest of the day! ;-)
Steve
I think an analogy that most here would understand is trying to force a 32bit computer to read a 64 bit programme. lets just say that 1D is 1bit 2D is 2bit 3D is 4bit etc etc. This is my understanding of not being able to understand soe of these things.
Having said that, we have access to a computer with larger bit processing power, infinitybit I guess, that can read anything. Meditation. Even after that though, you may have a tangible idea whilst meditation, when you stop, you go back to your concious(limited) state and you will not be able to make sence of it again. Unless! you can made 3D tangible sence whilst experiencing it. aka, understanding.
The big bang idea, hopefuly you are familiar with a certain model of the universe as two sheets that occasionaly colide, invoking multiple big bangs as a possability, but maybe the first big bang was the original separation of these two sheets? the birth of duality makes sense to be the cause of the split, as the two sheets on thier own represent duality.
One thing ACIM taught me was that the begining of the physical universe was not by any means the first step of creation. Unfortunately As above, we can't handle the 'software' of the outside universe.
Love and Light
(08-05-2009, 01:39 PM)Sirius Wrote: [ -> ]The big bang idea, hopefuly you are familiar with a certain model of the universe as two sheets that occasionaly colide, invoking multiple big bangs as a possability, but maybe the first big bang was the original separation of these two sheets? the birth of duality makes sense to be the cause of the split, as the two sheets on thier own represent duality.
One thing ACIM taught me was that the begining of the physical universe was not by any means the first step of creation.
There is indeed much to consider about the metaphysical aspects of the big bang. I view it as simply the creation of this octave of existence. Let's look at a couple of pertinent quotes:
Ra, Book III, Session 52 Wrote:Questioner: In the previous session you mentioned the lightbringers from the octave. Am I to understand that those who provide the light for the graduation are of an octave above the one we experience? Could you tell me more about these lightbringers, who they are, etc.?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion. Is there any brief query which you have at this time?
The "question" that Don refers to from the previous session is also interesting:
Ra, Book III, Session 51 Wrote:Questioner: As we begin Book Three of The Law of One there are a couple of questions of fairly non-transient importance that I have and one that I consider to be of a transient nature that I feel obligated to ask.
The first is clearing up the final point about harvest. I was wondering if there is a supervision over the harvest and if so, why this supervision is necessary and how it works since an entity’s harvestability is determined by the violet ray? Is it necessary for entities to supervise the harvest, or is it automatic?
Ra: I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be without the bruise or the blemish. There are those of three levels watching over harvest.
The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or higher self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.
The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their higher self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.
The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.
Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.
Aside from being constantly amazed by Don's ability to ask questions that lead to very interesting information, I thought that this was significant in that we learn from this that the Guardians are actually wanderers from the next octave of existence. From these descriptions (and others, let me know if you'd like to see more), it would appear that our "Logos" or Octave, or universe was created at the time of the "Big Bang" and will end, based upon Ra's description, in what physicists have called a hypothetical "Bing Crunch".
Readers that are interested in the relations between physics and metaphysics may also be interested in reading the
thread on Dewey B Larson. I have not posted on it lately due to an apparent lack of interest, but would be glad to start again if members are interested.
Love and Light,
3D Sunset
What you would call octaves is what I would call software I can't compute. I beleive this to be a reason of the Octaves, and desities, steps towards understanding the creation, this is the density of choice, and that is all we have to do, the other densities reflect living out that choice. then 5th would build upon 4th. there cannot be co incedence on the order that they are numbered? they follow eachother.
I think if we all genuinly knew how the universe was created we would not be here physically and metaphysicaly.
(08-04-2009, 06:29 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]But if it never had a start, then how could the first "known thing in the universe" be infinity?
My confusion, exactly! To borrow Sirius's analogy, infinity (for me) as a concept is akin to highly advanced software from the future, written in an alien programming language, which I am attempting to run with my old Apple ][. As much as I try to wrap my mind around it, I will always become lost... Despite my understanding of it's basic concept, I am always halted at the doorway... While within incarnation at least- I'm looking forward to plumbing this and many other fascinating topics when I am again dis-incarnate and am not restricted by laws of confusion or 3rd density veils.
Until then, ignorance is bliss. Now where is my Oregon Trail game?
(08-11-2009, 12:40 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2009, 06:29 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]But if it never had a start, then how could the first "known thing in the universe" be infinity?
My confusion, exactly! To borrow Sirius's analogy, infinity (for me) as a concept is akin to highly advanced software from the future, written in an alien programming language, which I am attempting to run with my old Apple ][. As much as I try to wrap my mind around it, I will always become lost... Despite my understanding of it's basic concept, I am always halted at the doorway... While within incarnation at least- I'm looking forward to plumbing this and many other fascinating topics when I am again dis-incarnate and am not restricted by laws of confusion or 3rd density veils.
Until then, ignorance is bliss. Now where is my Oregon Trail game?
.
I agree that it is mind bending and perplexing. Can we look at it this way- when we say first thing known, we are already defining it in terms of time. But if the time does not exist then the question becomes meaningless. Can we say- Infinity IS...
Lavazza Wrote:And yet, Ra does give that at some point Infinity became aware, which suggests that at some point it was not aware, which leaves the door open for "Why did infinity become aware? What caused infinity to become aware?" Realizing of course that explanations for such may never be available to us behind the veil. But it is fun to wonder.
Creation is fractal. Whatever causes infinity to become aware is what causes humanity to become aware. I would say my thoughts are that if we didn't "move forward", we would die. If the universe didn't proceed forward with the process of becoming aware in every moment, it would die. There is always energy flowing throughout all points of the universe, big or small, and my thought is that whatever causes that energy to flow is God. As long as there is energy flowing, there will be more development of the universe at all levels, humanity included, otherwise everything would just cease to be. If God stops imagining reality, it stops being imagined! I think that the creation is a thought by God. But I think the entire creation has to go through its cycle before it dissipates. That means all the octaves and the sub octaves and the sub sub octaves and the sub sub sub octaves and so on and so forth, have to wrap up their cycles, including our teeny tiny little transition from our 3rd to our 4th. Once all octaves at all levels are approaching completion, the universe, or infinity, becomes 100% aware, and everything goes back to nothing at all. The One who causes the energy to flow has pulled the plug. Maybe It will think another thought, but that will be in a simply unfathomable amount of years...