Bring4th

well, it looks like the combined might of Bring4th has withstood the persistent assault of the Prophet Shin'Ar.

question is, what did we learn from it?

- -

I think most of the regular members had a 'run in' or confrontation with 'the Prophet'. Even some of the more mild-mannered, gentle individuals copped a bit of treatment from the prolific typing of Shin'Ar.

my own self-corrective came here, where my understandings were 'amended' by Shin'Ar's words in red. He even typed them in red!

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...3#pid72593

Quote:the Magician: represents the Creative Faculty of consciousness. Linked to the root chakra, the first and foremost quality of human consciousness is to Create, for are we not a splinter of the One Infinite Creator? We cannot help but create. Maybe not works of art, but our 'creatorship' lies in all elements of our lives; how we dress, how we talk, how we work, how we interpret the wider world ... this is all a Creation in the mind separate from the facts.

The Magi is man practicing the art of making the divine connection that will lead to the Astral gate. A he perfects that art he becomes introduced to the Goddess.

the High Priestess: the High Priestess is known as the Potentiator of the Mind, and interacts with the Magician by feeding it Information from hidden sources. These sources include the subconscious, the dream world, and all the good stuff from the time/space component of yourself. This card may be seen as the 'Veil', and when one gains adeptship, the High Priestess steps through the Veil, and standing side by side with the Magician, all things about the Self may be known.

This is the Goddess still veiled and secretly protecting the key to the Astral gate.In her cloak she partially reveals the scrolls with the knowledge to find the key.the veil represents the Mystery to be solved.


the Empress: the Empress may be seen as the mind holding sway over a Court; she governs social relations, social interactions, and social standing. This card represents how the Mind, that is, you, connects itself with the wider society and groups in general, also known as yellow ray. The Empress is the 'catalyst of the mind' and there is no better catalyst than interacting with other entities, for they are the mirror unto yourself. Blockages here reveal themselves most most easily.

here the Goddess has removed the veil and becomes the gateway herself. having discovered the key you now have permission to travel through the birth channel from the material world to the spiritual.

the Emperor: the Emperor holds dominion over a vast empire, and how the mind chooses to engage with this empire is what this card is all about. My personal reading (easily disputable) is that this is the fundamental choice between Service-to-Others, and Service-to-Self. The Benevolent Emperor is one who chooses to serve all the citizens in his empire; he has, for whatever reason, gained the position that he has through circumstance, skill, or prior knowledge. The choice made here opens up/closes the green ray.

This is the puppet ruler of the right hand path. In all appearances he is a ruler and authority, but not the true ruler. His role is to lead to the left hand path where we find the true ruler.


the Hierophant: the Hierophant is associated with the blue ray of Wisdom. An understanding of this archetype is that one has come to see the link between catalyst and the lessons to be learnt, so that one is then able to fully and consciously direct the path of one's personal evolution. Once this is fully understood and appreciated, one has the first 5 energy centers (at least for the mental component) open and activated, which then opens up ...

Here we find the true ruler, not to be confused with the catholic Pope as it often is. this is the left hand path and wearing the true crown of balance and Sacred Fire, the Shin'Ar.


the Lovers: my tentative understanding of this card is that it represents a blending of energies in the Mind. These are real and literal, and are drawn through the indigo center (third eye)

This has nothing to do with lovers or sex. this is the left hand path and the right hand path and man choosing which path he will follow. There is always the choice and one often walks both ways on each, but one can not partake of both. he either walks forward on the one or the other.- -

the final card in the Great Chain of Mind (archetypes) is probably the one I understand the least, and is probably only really speculative on my part right now.

the Chariot: I see the Chariot as a Circle in which the Mind stands in. When the Chariot has been ascended to via the first 6 cards, then the Mind has learnt all its faculties, and is able to direct attention at will. The attention is focussed totally inside the Chariot, and fills it, and then the Chariot is shifted mentally to wherever it wants to go in the Universe. Outlandish? yeah, I thought you'd say so. But I am still working through this one, maybe prematurely, because I think my understanding of the previous card (the Lovers) is still sketchy and hazy, and that Knowledge informs this Knowledge.

Having chosen the left hand path and realized the Goddess, passed through the gate, he has conquered the flesh and ascended to victory. As you noted he is now in control of which way he will now steer. This factor will be crucial in understanding the next few cards, specifically the balance card or what some refer to as Justice.

- -

so what did we learn from it?

* did we learn greater tolerance?

* did anyone lose their temper?

* did we insist that he learn the terminology of Ra, so that we could communicate on equal terms?

* did we just end up typing words at each other, with no teach/learning, learn/teaching taking place?

- -

I think Shin'Ar's greatest frustration (and the one that ended up being the most discussed point) is that he believed the Ra philosophy seemed to support the following position:

"while good men stood by and did nothing, evil flourished".

now that position has some built-in assumptions, but I think that is the final conclusion that he drew. His (perhaps) final post/thought is here:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4418

- -

farewell Shin'Ar. If you are as STO as you claim, then we will see each other again in the Harvest.

Actually, I have learned a lot, not necessarily from him, but from every one of us combined.
First of all: I have felt before that there is an issue in how the majority of us are concerned about STS/STO, and although I have voiced my opinion on this several times, I never even imagined that for some reason, this place would look like an "STS-hugger" or an "STS-lover" forum in any way, shape or form.

But: the thing is, through him, we have been able to come in terms what it might mean to live with the concept that is STS or STO, or if we like these concepts or not. I have labeled Shin'Ar as a "zealot", not to lower his goals, but simply because he came here, rushed through with all these topics, and never for a moment seemed to really consider that sometimes he does not hold an ultimate truth that is good for everyone - he only holds what is best for himself, at this moment. Or what is needed to improve, not "best" in our linear terminology.

I am embracing the idea that this forum will in fact withstand a lot of heated discussions. There is a lot to talk about still, a lot to chew on. One is what we just have seen: when the idea of someone causing temporary harm would rile up someone so much that he would go and cause that harm in the first place, or something very, very close to it. I have always got bad nerd chills out of that, just like when listening to one candidate talk where one said they do not want war, but they will have to go against Iran just to be sure... yeah, just to be sure. They are at the other half of the world.. : (

I am also very thankful for everyone who stayed calm even during the most heated conversations (especially the mods, Ankh, Abridgetoofar, and I am certain there were more, but I forgot : ( ), because sometimes I knew that I would not have been able to keep that up.

thanks Oldern. That's a really well constructed viewpoint

As with all others, I viewed him as another self. In him I saw the potentials within myself which were active within him. As far as his knowledge, and his conception goes, I found everything to be very good and stimulating, but truthfully there seemed to be a basic semantic frustration for him due to the words Law of One, STS and STO. It would seem that he was overwhelmed by the connotations of these word-triggers, and that which caused to rise some very deep emotions, likely associated with his own challenges and trials within this life. I am also aware that often when he posted, he was channeling Thoth, which would also explain some of the intensity of his messages. Thoth is a rather firm guide, out of Love of course.

I, personally, didn't really find so much that he was trying to control anyone, he, like all of us, just wished to do the highest service he deemed himself capable of.

thanks Azrael. I think you were the one that got closest to Shin'Ar in spirit and in friendship, so your words mean a lot.

thank you.

I think that were this meeting to have been of the flesh, instead of online and with words, there would have been a much greater degree of harmony.

Did he leave or something?

All I saw was a very narrow view of existence, and it made me veer away from his texts.

(03-11-2012, 02:55 PM)Azrael Wrote: [ -> ]I think that were this meeting to have been of the flesh, instead of online and with words, there would have been a much greater degree of harmony.

That's usually the case.

I imagine a stray dog. We set out a tasty bowl of treats on the porch, but that pup doesn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole, he just wants to be a stray, so he walks on.

Thin Air

I had an off/ unable to center feeling from him initially and like Pickle avoided the situation, and I only read a limited amount of the discussion. But I admire all the forum members who responded in such open honest and loving ways....I could not get there. There was a lot that he wrote that catalyzed me and brought up pretty strong emotions.

I learned a lot from Shin'Ar. I learned that I still struggle with lessons of being un-defensively humble. I learned that I if I would let go of pride and other sillinesses I can understand more, and *serve* better. I learned that I am still viewing entities as "confused seekers" as soon as their view of the Creation is not congruent with my own. I learned that I have difficulties to accept myself as confused as other selves when I find out that their teachings do not resonate with me personally. He, as my other self, was showing me all this array of all these lessons, and much more.

Shin'Ar, I know you take a peek here from time to time (as you *are* human ) - thank you, my other self, for everything! May the Infinite One guide and guard you on your path.

Blessings, adonai.

You were awesome Ankh, a couple of posts that I read, and I learned things just by reading what you wrote, your example of centered loving communication.

(03-11-2012, 04:42 PM)Shemaya Wrote: [ -> ]You were awesome Ankh, a couple of posts that I read, and I learned things just by reading what you wrote, your example of centered loving communication.

TY.

Shin'ar was the catalyst for a great transmutation of emotion within myself. A surge of black anger was transformed into a sunny ball of humor. I got so blatantly offended that I couldn't help but laugh at my own histrionic reaction. Then I couldn't help but sit back and laugh at all of it...how seriously we take ourselves here behind the veil. It's all a big sitcom, guys, and the Creator is sitting up there with a bucket of popcorn. You can enjoy your roll as an actor in the script or you can think the script is all there is and miss out on the rest of that big, beautiful reality out there. Once you realize it's all a big joke, you can laugh along with the rest of the audience.

Shin'Ar, to me, was a great test for all of us to see how caught up in the illusion we are.

Ridicule and mockery was expected, and I am not surprised or insulted. Of course I will visit here and see what becomes of those I have come to know. Why wouldn't I? I love you all, and I care for your spiritual welfare. I shall return here once in awhile in my search for understanding. But I will not make it a habit to be here sharing the fields as much as I have been. It does not feel right to me. Something is disturbing. I will be very wary of the darkness that I find here, and avoid getting confused and lost within it.

I am not a prophet and only came here by connection to my field of consciousness. This connection has brought me into many other connections over the years, and I have learned to follow them with strict discernment. My writing and discussions with others often reflects this connection I have with other fields, and many times I feel that I am speaking more from without than within. But as I have no identity, there is always the blend. I am constantly aware of my field. And I am constantly connecting with others in my rituals and meditations.

I have never meant to preach, but how does one express their Light Being without imposing on darkness? So if my shining is considered as preaching or imposition, than it is just the way of the meeting of polarity. I can no more turn off my Light than the Source can reclaim existence.

My purpose was to discover why I was led to this place. What I have found is what you have placed here for me to find. When Light is shone on it, we must all then discern what we see. Many of you found yourselves attracted to that Light and had the following to say:

Plenum :

"I think I am coming around to Shin'Ar's view of STS.

Although STS is seen as a valid way of returning to the 6th Density by Ra, I think that validity doesn't express the horrors and domination that STS beings engage in to get there.

let us examine some evidence:

1) famous STS Polarised Entities

Genghis Khan, Rasputin, Hitler

not your most cute and cuddly individuals. In fact, they waged war and worshiped torture. The amount of suffering that these individuals caused is beyond imagination. And these are the ones who succeeded.

There are those who would seek to polarise STS and use techniques of manipulation, deception, and financial oppression to keep the world enslaved.

2) psychic attack, and demonic possession

there are those who have expressed their stories on these forums of very real attempts at demonic possession. I have read these and been aghast. I can attest that as one moves toward real anchoring of Light, you attract the nasties.

this isn't a GAME. The further you get, the bigger a target you become.

3) a strict hierarchy of control

if you are in a STS structure, you do what your superior tells you to. There is no 'negotiation' or 'debate'. You hold your place or rank due to their begrudging forbearance. Fall out of line, and see what happens to you." UNQUOTE


Gemeni Wolf said: Wow Shin, (may I call you Shin), your teachings are pretty profound. I usually don't read long posts, but feel compelled, if that is the right word, in reading yours. I had before been wary of the left-hand path, but that appears to be the path to adepthood. Nothing wrong in that. I liked how you balanced the male and female perspectives.

Zenmaster said: I can appreciate your understanding of symbolism and the thought behind your words. I can tell you've done a lot of work, and I'm glad there are people such as yourself that are able to recognize that reality (if that makes sense). Thanks for sharing your insights. There does seem to be much to learn with regards to these primordial, archetypal energies.

ThatZenGuy said: Your words are beautifully written and eloquent. You understand the true nature of duality and the middle path with great dept and knowledge. It's neither here nor there, but rather the journey of what's in between at this very moment. Cheers to you being on this forum and sharing with us your love.

Sagitarrius said :I have no idea how your posts could be regarded as preaching. Your beliefs stay true to the Ra material.

Whitefeather said: Therefore, the adept will always work with the guidance of spirit or Holy Spirit and, where the adept works within such a guidance, non-adepts go on passing judgment on what they mis-interpret for the ego of the adept but in fact is the Spirit of the adept.

Yossarian said: Shin'Ar is clearly a theosophist, and Azrael pointed outs that he was doing Drunvalo Melchizedek's stuff, the main thing Drunvalo offers is his Merkaba meditation which is supposed to produce a tremendous astral light and be extremely powerful, and someone who taps into this kind of thing gains power to attract spiritual teachers and what not. Stands to reason an adept connected to the Great White Brotherhood was attracted.UNQUOTE

I will not post private messages here because that would be a betrayal of confidence. However I will say that the Great White Brotherhood is NOT what its modern day imitations express. And we prefer to be called the Brotherhood of Light, also not to be confused with imitations. We are Ancients.

And as Ancient Ones it is our heartfelt calling to remind you that many of the ancient religons all refer to the Dark Ones, and all refer to the need to cast off the flesh and become spirit. That is not a coincidence, nor is it something that you should neglect for the sake of this service to self doctrine that you have adopted without true understanding of it. You may mock Shin'Ar and accuse him of imposing his ego upon you, but your accusations do not eradicate your obligation to consider if what we bring to you is wisdom or untruth. You can redirect the Light with the mirror your own self, but it only continues to shine away from you.

Those here of ridiculing hearts who giggle at the sound of their own mockeries, and who criticize in insult, only reveal the true nature of STS as being one which does not profess compassion. I simply ask that if you truly seek the Light, profess love and be loving, and refrain from testing the darkness, for it is a path that leads to extreme darkness where Light does not shine. We Ancients have warned of the dangers of the darkness for countless ages, and have called many from its trappings. we have called out to you here because you are misinterpreting the wondrous teachings of the Law of One.

Be One, but never forget the purpose of the self. The purpose is to leave the self behind and let it become transformed into infinite Light. The One Consciousness is continuous transformation, and will never be realized in the temporary aspect of self or selfishness. To serve the self is to succumb to self gratification, and that is the trap that we have spent many lifetimes learning to escape. As beings of Light why would we seek to return into darkness? As beings of love why would seek to abandon love for the pursuit of selfishness? Always seek Light and love. There is no need to seek the darkness for it is directly behind you, always waiting with gaping jaws.

(03-11-2012, 07:41 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Be One, but never forget the purpose of the self. The purpose is to leave the self behind.

The way of Love is the way of integration, not separation. You do not leave anything behind. You learn to embrace all instead.

(03-11-2012, 07:41 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Those here of ridiculing hearts who giggle at the sound of their own mockeries, and who criticize in insult, only reveal the true nature of STS as being one which does not profess compassion. I simply ask that if you truly seek the Light, profess love and be loving, and refrain from testing the darkness, for it is a path that leads to extreme darkness where Light does not shine. We Ancients have warned of the dangers of the darkness for countless ages, and have called many from its trappings. we have called out to you here because you are misinterpreting the wondrous teachings of the Law of One.

I would just like to hone in on this because I think this is the nature of the confusion/miss-communication/perception or simply the "rubbing point" that you are having with other members. The veil is extremely thick for some, which can cause people primarily STO to say something STS or commit a STS act due to confusion. This does not make them STS overall. I will go out a limb and assume most people dont like being called a STS entity when they believe they are not. However, they are much more likely to admit to STS behavior, since this does not necessarily mean they are STS all the time.

Do you believe there are STS entities here that are trying to convert STO entities of this forum? I haven't seen anything like that(so far, anyways), otherwise I might have a similar reaction. As soon as someone "asks" for something is the point at which I become suspicious and move on to something else, generally speaking.

When Shin'Ar began frequently posting here, initially I felt a particularly ancestral presence to him; I sensed that the being behind the words being written had long ago balanced the two opposing forces within him and had a vision that was unobscured. I will confess that at first I was unable to place my finger on his true intentions yet held no judgement about him. Very soon did I see that he is one who has been able to transmute darkness into the Light, which to me explained why he was able to disperse wisdom of both forces. Recently in reading his sentiments on always walking forward into the light and never backwards into darkness, I saw more clearly his true nature. Lending further credence to Shin'Ar's benevolent beingness are the material both he and Azrael brought to my attention, the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. Given that this body of work presumably serves the primary foundation for his outlook (and is something he has avidly studied for years) it is clear to see that he is indeed a Sun of the Sun. It was interesting that he ascribed to pretty much the exact same paradigm we all do here, with a more 'mystical' slant to his insights on the esoteric, and yet it was not the Ra Material which he derived it from.

I saw in him the exact same thing I see within every one of you here: a potential teacher, a fellow aspect of the Creator, and another highly valuable perspective on the truth. I'm pretty surprised that he began to assume that many members here are "STS-oriented", though I'm a bit more surprised that Shin'Ar's decision to leave (hopefully he is not truly bent on leaving for good) seemingly stemmed from the rehashed debate over what constitutes STO and STS. Really, I wouldn't think it would still be a major topic of discussion still; saying one wants to polarize on either path does nothing, and even though one might subscribe to one particular path... ah see, now I'm falling into that trap of semantics. Nobody here is STO or STS. In our day to day lives, however, we are presented with many opportunities to interact with others, and even if we do not interact with others, we will still be dwelling within our minds. There is no set "color" to any experience, it is how we approach them which constitutes if we are more "STO" or "STS". If the intentions are kind and done in order to help another, and you've effectively put a smile on somebody's face, well now you've just served another. If you instead try to size up the potential value of another and how it may benefit you, and proceed in a string of actions sustained by manipulation, greed, etc., then you are serving your self. It boils down to what the mind of the temporary vehicle your soul is currently operating chooses to do. Goodness to other Creators, or manipulative hoarding. Given that, I don't get the feeling that anybody here is a cold and cruel person, you all seem extremely nice to me, and effectively "STO". Regardless, even the most "STO" of you here will undoubtedly have times where you serve yourselves or face moments where the polarity of the options you have before you cannot be discerned. Don't let your perceived polarity become a matter of existential crisis to you. If ever there are times you 'serve the self', it is probably a minor thing or not ever fully pursued because I'm pretty sure nobody here, knowing what has been revealed to us, would ever actively engage in truly negative STS behavior towards another, especially in this extremely critical time. The more you seek to serve others and be a shining light of love to others, the more opportunities the Creator shall make available to you to further pursue that which you truly Will.

In any case, I thought Shin'Ar was a truly interesting character steeped in ancient wisdom and rites, and the extent to which he has taught me, even I am not fully aware of yet, though I highly appreciate his leading me to these Emerald Tablets. I think something we may all agree upon is that Shin'Ar's presence here was excellent catalyst, and he performed a great service by simply being (again, this sentiment can be extended to every active member here). I also thought he looked pretty badass in that picture he took wearing his ritual cloak.



He is serious business. It was pretty neat knowing I corresponded with this guy.

The dialogue between Shin'ar and others has been great. There can never be enough in depth discussion. I have learnt a lot from everyone here and see everyone as having value.

I supported Shin'ar at his birth. Then he started hating on me out of the blue. Dunno why. Don't much care. But I learned, again, it doesn't matter much what I think because what you think will always win out in your thinking.

as far as i can see he is still here. personally i like him . i get a good vibe from him so i'm glad he's still here.

(03-11-2012, 05:49 PM)Azrael Wrote: [ -> ]Shin'Ar, to me, was a great test for all of us to see how caught up in the illusion we are.

(03-11-2012, 07:41 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]And as Ancient Ones it is our heartfelt calling to remind you that many of the ancient religons all refer to the Dark Ones, and all refer to the need to cast off the flesh and become spirit.

In my understanding - if the body is properly studied and understood, it becomes a magical wand in the hands of a Magician (=mind/consciousness), in this very illusionary space/time. The only darkness that exists is the darkness in the spirit. (Ok, sorry for that dramatic sentence, it is totally distorted, but I couldn't resist. )

We will all graduate, and we will all come back to the Creator, but *right now* we are here, in third density, having third density mind/body complexes, and experiencing third density space/time. Why not to look around? Why not learn something? This is a very short density, where the choice is made. But this is also a density where the work in consciousness can be done, if chosen. Of course, it is up to each intelligence to find out whether this work is interesting or not, so what I am offering is just another way of looking at this now. And in this now - I am in third density, having a third density mind/body complex. And if you are to do the study and do the work, you can transform your mind/body complexes from being experienced as a heavy, chemical meatsuits that weight tons on your shoulders, to a magical tool which you can use in *service*. You will be able to do stuff, if properly have studied and understood, that are miraculous. I thought you two were interested in that?

(03-12-2012, 08:01 AM)norral Wrote: [ -> ]as far as i can see he is still here. personally i like him . i get a good vibe from him so i'm glad he's still here.

Me, too, norral!

I can't definitively say that I have teach/learned anything from the few interactions I have had with Shin'Ar on Bring4th. However- it has confirmed an idea which has been gaining strength in my mind. The idea is this: It is folly to attempt to communicate wisdom with words. No matter how clear the intent or unambiguous the word choices, it appears inevitable that somebody else will come along and twist the words into meaning the exact opposite of what was intended. Indeed, if we are to learn anything from Ra's story as shared in the material, it is this. There is a reason why the greatest spiritual teachers speak in terms of parable and shared stories.

Speaking from my own experience, I feel as if the microcosm of my life has recapitulated this epic cosmic journey from STO to STS and back again. As I have found it, the fulcrum or turning point in this journey is the realization that serving others is in fact the best way to serve the self. When others grow, we grow. Eventually, one comes to find that serving others brings a sense of joy and happiness in and of itself.

However, I cannot eradicate the past. I cannot stick a spoon in my brain and scoop out those parts which have learned to serve the self through serving others. I cannot "unsee" what I have seen, and I cannot fool myself into thinking I am totally "unselfish" when I am not.

That being said, my understanding of the light path is that it is the path of acceptance, of compassion, and of unity. It is not the path of denial, of judgement, and of separation. One cannot increase the light through the use of fear. But this is my own understanding, and I cannot speak of what is correct for others.

What I can say with a fair amount of certainty is that I do not perceive hidden motives or agendas in the Ra material. I do not subscribe to the notion that Ra is simply being polite when they say there is no right or wrong, or that it is folly to do battle with the dark forces. I take Ra at their word, and ultimately have no choice but to follow that path to see where it leads.

Each of us carries the spark of the Creator within. It is the "still, small voice" of which all of the great teachers speak. It is a voice that speaks with confidence and surety, yet is not boisterous or proud. It does not seek to drown out the other voices by sheer power. It is not the voice of a zealot, and it does not proselytize. It certainly does not label others "STS" and give warnings and admonitions of what will occur if there is no change. Rather, it has faith and trusts that each pilgrim will return home, and upon its arrival realize that it never really left.

I can only assume that it knows what it is doing.

(03-12-2012, 02:29 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]I can't definitively say that I have teach/learned anything from the few interactions I have had with Shin'Ar on Bring4th. However- it has confirmed an idea which has been gaining strength in my mind. The idea is this: It is folly to attempt to communicate wisdom with words. No matter how clear the intent or unambiguous the word choices, it appears inevitable that somebody else will come along and twist the words into meaning the exact opposite of what was intended. Indeed, if we are to learn anything from Ra's story as shared in the material, it is this. There is a reason why the greatest spiritual teachers speak in terms of parable and shared stories.

Speaking from my own experience, I feel as if the microcosm of my life has recapitulated this epic cosmic journey from STO to STS and back again. As I have found it, the fulcrum or turning point in this journey is the realization that serving others is in fact the best way to serve the self. When others grow, we grow. Eventually, one comes to find that serving others brings a sense of joy and happiness in and of itself.

However, I cannot eradicate the past. I cannot stick a spoon in my brain and scoop out those parts which have learned to serve the self through serving others. I cannot "unsee" what I have seen, and I cannot fool myself into thinking I am totally "unselfish" when I am not.

That being said, my understanding of the light path is that it is the path of acceptance, of compassion, and of unity. It is not the path of denial, of judgement, and of separation. One cannot increase the light through the use of fear. But this is my own understanding, and I cannot speak of what is correct for others.

What I can say with a fair amount of certainty is that I do not perceive hidden motives or agendas in the Ra material. I do not subscribe to the notion that Ra is simply being polite when they say there is no right or wrong, or that it is folly to do battle with the dark forces. I take Ra at their word, and ultimately have no choice but to follow that path to see where it leads.

Each of us carries the spark of the Creator within. It is the "still, small voice" of which all of the great teachers speak. It is a voice that speaks with confidence and surety, yet is not boisterous or proud. It does not seek to drown out the other voices by sheer power. It is not the voice of a zealot, and it does not proselytize. It certainly does not label others "STS" and give warnings and admonitions of what will occur if there is no change. Rather, it has faith and trusts that each pilgrim will return home, and upon its arrival realize that it never really left.

I can only assume that it knows what it is doing.

I've often wondered why so few of the participants of "Homecoming" so rarely participate here. (Not including the Mods)

I think you just answered that.

Richard

(03-12-2012, 02:57 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]I've often wondered why so few of the participants of "Homecoming" so rarely participate here. (Not including the Mods)

nice one Richard. Problem solved!

we invite Shin'Ar to HomeComing!!

Thanks TN for your post...makes total sense and very helpful to me

Okayness of the thread?

---

Great thoughts everyone, especially Tenet Nosce and Ankh. Thank you.

Monica has always been against putting someone on the table for dissection/analysis, and over the past few years that's been a core policy here.

I've asked myself regarding the wisdom of this thread, wondering if it moves outside of those parameters. I feel the goodness in Plenum's intent, especially the self-reflective questions he posed, but wonder as to the polarity in analyzing another. I don't know. However, I consider that, as Ra said, we are the material for study, and Shin'Ar has been quite self-conscious, reflective, and vocal regarding his role as “way-shower” in relationship to the community, and in relationship to the material. I believe that this discussion can be undertaken in a spirit of positivity and respect. I hope it continues to do so.


Proselytism?

---

As to my thoughts. It didn't bother me that Shin'Ar has some fundamental disagreements with the Law of One. Disagreement is productive for great discussion.

What initially entered my radar as a moderator was his open admission to not having read the body of work on whose pages this forum is built. However after apprising him of the guidelines, he respectfully jumped into the Law of One material in order to participate as a more informed member. Thank you for this, Shin’Ar.

Otherwise the only catalyst I perceived from the one known as Shin’Ar did not so much regard the content of his worldview, but some of the, what I would call, pushiness in his sharing of that worldview.

It's one thing to say, "I disagree with some of the basic principles of your common philosophy, Bring4th members." And another to say, "You guys are wrong, you're in danger for believing what you believe, and you would do well to listen to me. My light is the greater here and sheds more illumination on the true situation than your own discernment is capable. Especially as I'm connected with these ancient laws and orders, and what not."

I've had many discussions with those I would consider of fundamentalist Christian orientation, and key among their shared philosophy is the rightness of and need for proselytism. One of the most commonly invoked analogies that I’ve heard for this argument is this. One person sees another person heading for a cliff without being aware of the cliff.

In such a case, would it not be right for the person seeing the real situation to notify the one heading for the cliff? And not just notify, but implore the one about to go over the edge to slow down, stop, and change direction? (Translated to their thinking, the cliff could be avoided by accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior.)

The justification of Shin’Ar’s approach bears important similarities here. In all sincerity, he believe he sees a cliff many if not all Ra-studying individuals are headed for, and thus, in his duties to the light, it is incumbent upon him to sound the warning sirens of the impending danger.

In my limited viewpoint, Shin’Ar approaches discussion in the forums with a similar intent, as he wrote here. With no disrespect for you, Shin’Ar, and the perfect expression of the Creator that you are, as you are, that intent somewhat borders on the energies of proselytism, I think, because implicit in it is the calling yourself to service, rather than responding to the request.


Service?

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Another aspect that divides the polarities that I’m not sure you’ve yet discussed is how each polarity views service. In short and in my non-authoritative opinion, the positive polarity recognizes that the positive being can only serve to the extent that it is requested. (What constitutes that request is a subject of a lifetime of consideration.) The negative being recognizes that it need not await the call for service but must instead go on a self-initiated conquest or crusade to serve entities who are perceived to be in need of the negative entity’s service.

There is a lot of gray area, ambiguity, and nuance between the two. And I’m not in a million years lumping you into a negative category. Just drawing the broad outlines of the two paths, and reflecting on my source of catalyst with your posting.

And in all fairness you seem to lack the zealotry and fervor of the religious fanatic in that you're willing to discuss and consider other points of view, and you're not single-minded in a God-told-me-to-do-this Quest to save the unredeemed. You have discussions on lots of subjects other than your preferred passions, and you seem well capable of relaxing and just enjoying the vibe.

You are clearly on a path of seeking to understand your self, as well.


Cheers!

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Otherwise, cheers to the good discussion you’ve helped engender! Cheers to your great sense of humor! (Both intentional and unintentional humor. When you in all sincerity asked abridgetoofar how you could frame your words so as to respectfully tell him how you perceive him to be "deluded", I laughed my arse off.) And cheers to bringing polarity to the front and center of discussion!

Polarity is absolutely central to the third-density experience. It is a topic incapable of being exhausted. It is what our 75,000-year (give or take) sojourn through this density consists of.

The problem, as it were, of suffering and “evil” in this world poses the greatest challenge to the philosopher, the theologian, and all thinking and feeling peoples, the pious and the unbelieving alike.

I commend your attempt to make sense of it for yourself.

With love, Gary


PS: I use section headers just to break up large blocks of text and make it easier on the eyes. I abhor the length of my writings at times.