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The predominate problematic factor with this whole STO vs. STS business is the common tendency amongst several members here to seemingly over-conceptualize and compartmentalize these concepts. It is not rocket science; these terms were chosen by Ra and both 'paths' were deemed equally valid due to their having transcended polarity in the highly evolved state of being they hold at their current nexus. It is necessary to filter these terms so as to better apply them to our world, and when this is done the following definitions apply:

STO = displaying and acting from a place of kindness, compassion, seeking to assist others for any reason in any way

STS = self-gratification at the expense of others, perceiving no value in others other than how they may be of use to you, manipulation, greed, extreme arrogance, actions stemming from such unskillful states of mind

When seen in this light the nature of many discussions here revolving around what constitutes whichever path or how to polarize on either path takes on an entirely different air. What decides how one polarizes are the momentary choices made in our continuum of awareness in consciousness. How one has polarized at any given time is revealed in the nature of experiences which presents itself to any being. If the individual constantly finds themselves in situations they are not comfortable in and do not offer much opportunity to serve others, then you have perhaps gone backwards into the darkness. Situations that tend to "repeat" themselves in various ways often do so because the lesson was not learned the previous times it arose (in the case of one who consciously seeks STO polarization, then perhaps the choices previously made did not reflect this desire and not conducive to the determined path). If every subsequent experience is fashioned to easily allow you the opportunity to be of service in someway, then it is because you have caused your beingness to vibrate at a higher level of light due to the constant choices made to act in loving light.

Out of everything in the Ra Material, it is indeed surprising that this simply area of study has been a stumbling block for most people, yet for some odd reason keen discussion of higher dimensions and intangible concepts is prevalent here, ironic considering (most) 3D beings have no experiential knowledge for reference to these things. One must be cautious to not be too focused upon the more grandiose elements found in this study lest they be distracted from what is truly important and matters at this time, that being the attention to one's personal life where the true test is. Applying this material to one's life will result in phenomenal, perceivable results. Reconfiguring the paradigm one's mind operates on to comprehend itself as Creator in an individualized form navigating through a holographic illusion of its own construct will result in the hologram functioning more as a hologram and less as "absolute consensus reality".

However, what is the point of being aware of the true nature of things if one is still confused about "how to polarize"? Good begets good, negativity begets negativity. Both are valid LEARNING PATHS, sure, but ultimately progressing towards the Light is far more reasonable and desirable than backwards immersion into the Dark so as to reach the light. This is the distinction that most here fail to see, that Ra implied that paths are valid to learn, but only one is much more effective and harmonious. Besides, WHY would anybody want to learn of the darkness if its the light they ultimately seek? For all intents and purposes of the one who seeks quintessential light, the darkness should be avoided when possible.

The darkness is, to a degree, denied here, or at least what the true extent of darkness is and its nature is not given more careful scrutiny. ahktu's recent channeling upon the darkness (which is phenomenal in its information) serves to shed a technical light on the darkness, but also intellectualizes it. I wonder what are the base images which comes to people's minds here when they hear the word "darkness" and "light"? If darkness is represented by Hitler or a rapist and the light is represented by Buddha or a monk, well, there's no discussion there as to which path should be condoned and entertained. Darkness, as Shin'Ar also helped to clarify, refers to the 'addiction of the flesh' and the material world as being a veil which binds the spirit/the light. Deifying aspects of this material illusion plunges one further into darkness. Pursuing temporary vices, when done with no regards for the spirit and chosen over the opportunity for spiritual progress, also plunges one further into darkness. Sex is not 'dark', nor is pursuing money/energy to sustain oneself/your loved ones, and neither is occasional substance ingestion (this in particular is case dependent, though a general rule of thumb is to ingest that which promotes good will and lighter states of being as opposed to dysfunction and intoxication, a la narcotics vs. psychedelics/entheogens). However, when these things reside perpetually at the forefront of one's thoughts and all actions are dictated by them, and integrity is shed, then it conveys just how strongly the darkness has one bound. And this should not be! How laughable to think that such trivial things actually can hold power over one's life? We are the Creator. It is baffling when viewing the manner in which our fellow aspects will allow the vices of this illusion to chain them, but it is understandable when given how obscured the path to Light is in this current world, hidden beneath many, many, many layers of deceit and deception perpetrated by those puppet masters of this illusion (whose power is slowly dwindling).

So really, it all boils down to your volitional formations, your intents, which determine the polarity of your choices. Are you driven by kindness, compassion, the desire to help others before yourself? Or do you seek to manipulate and use others for your own gain, and place your own needs before those of others, even if your needs aren't as 'urgent', or if you don't even have needs but simply WANT for yourself as opposed to sharing with others? Do you interact with the Creator by serving others when you can or by serving yourself at other's expense?
we came here to be bound by flesh and found in the end. creator blinded itself temporarily.

when gauging what is an urgent need, it's not always so clear. when you take narcotics you can feel lighter than when taking psychedelics. you can't expect everyone to have such clear cut rights and wrongs. everyone is different.
i mean, even Ra said there is right and wrong but it's not always so self evident.
Mmm, the point however isn't that we are Creators undergoing voluntary amnesia nor what constitutes an urgent need or otherwise nor how one feels in differing altered states of consciousness. The point is to provide foundational clarification to what constitutes STO and STS as to avoid future confusion or misunderstanding. I also do not hold any clear cut views on what is right or wrong and acknowledge that this area varies for everyone. I am, however, attempting to offer a clear cut definition of the two distinct concepts.
When I hear darkness I think smokey black smoke stuff and it isn't even smoke, but some silky soft beautiful substance. And light is a warm gold cream white coloured smokey smoke stuff that is silky and beautiful. :-) I don't see people or hear words. And I appreciate both of them :-)

-Conifer17-
Peace and giggles :-)
Adonai Vasu Borragus namaste
:-) <3<3 :-)
And they both swirl around eachother like the yin yang symbol and interpenetrate one another in perfect balance :-) it is beautiful :-) causes me to smile thinking about it :-)

(03-13-2012, 12:18 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]So really, it all boils down to your volitional formations, your intents, which determine the polarity of your choices. Are you driven by kindness, compassion, the desire to help others before yourself? Or do you seek to manipulate and use others for your own gain, and place your own needs before those of others, even if your needs aren't as 'urgent', or if you don't even have needs but simply WANT for yourself as opposed to sharing with others? Do you interact with the Creator by serving others when you can or by serving yourself at other's expense?

These are great, guiding questions. : )


(03-13-2012, 12:18 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]The predominate problematic factor with this whole STO vs. STS business is the common tendency amongst several members here to seemingly over-conceptualize and compartmentalize these concepts. It is not rocket science; these terms were chosen by Ra and both 'paths' were deemed equally valid due to their having transcended polarity in the highly evolved state of being they hold at their current nexus. It is necessary to filter these terms so as to better apply them to our world, and when this is done the following definitions apply:

GV, why would you want to, and why would we ever need to, bring "closure" on a topic that we may mine with great benefit for the remainder of our incarnation? The "choice", as the Confederation calls it, is the "axis on which the creation turns".

That's a pretty big deal, involving not just this incarnation alone, but our journey for a long, long, loooong time to come. : )

Our understanding of polarity, our definitions of polarity, our discussions of polarity, our experience of polarity will evolve as we evolve. We will be faced with the endlessly complex and dynamic possibilities of polarity with each new turn of the upward moving spiral.

How in the world could there be closure, or finality, or nailing it all down to, "Look, it's this way. Case closed." Smile

Much love, GLB
The main determining factor is they are attempting to open the gateway through the third energy center. I can't find the quote where Ra says this. So they are completely dedicated towards absorbing power at the societal level. I wouldn't label many people that exhibit "negative' traits as sts, they're just confused by a heavy veil.
(03-13-2012, 01:05 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]we came here to be bound by flesh and found in the end. creator blinded itself temporarily...

This may be so for Wanderers, but for those of us experiencing 3rd density for the first time, it's another mater. Smile
(03-13-2012, 10:52 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-13-2012, 12:18 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]The predominate problematic factor with this whole STO vs. STS business is the common tendency amongst several members here to seemingly over-conceptualize and compartmentalize these concepts. It is not rocket science; these terms were chosen by Ra and both 'paths' were deemed equally valid due to their having transcended polarity in the highly evolved state of being they hold at their current nexus. It is necessary to filter these terms so as to better apply them to our world, and when this is done the following definitions apply:

GV, why would you want to, and why would we ever need to, bring "closure" on a topic that we may mine with great benefit for the remainder of our incarnation? The "choice", as the Confederation calls it, is the "axis on which the creation turns".

That's a pretty big deal, involving not just this incarnation alone, but our journey for a long, long, loooong time to come. : )

Our understanding of polarity, our definitions of polarity, our discussions of polarity, our experience of polarity will evolve as we evolve. We will be faced with the endlessly complex and dynamic possibilities of polarity with each new turn of the upward moving spiral.

How in the world could there be closure, or finality, or nailing it all down to, "Look, it's this way. Case closed." Smile

Much love, GLB

You're absolutely right. "Truth" is not an immovable absolute, it is always in flux, evolving, resulting in new revelations arising each and every day. What I attempted to do was place the general concepts of STO and STS in a much better perspective, no, not a "better" perspective, moreso a view of it which "holds more water" so to speak in the density we find ourselves in. There are an infinite variety of ways any topic may be approached and articulated, Icaro for example approaches the polarities while keeping in mind which chakra is being primarily utilized and a more metaphysical view of it. My approach to STO vs STS tries to convey a more emotive slant. Both approaches are true, albeit focusing upon different aspects of it. So yes, there may never be closure on the discussion of polarity, because who knows? Polarity itself may one day change (next octave, perhaps), thus calling for a whole new slew of definitions, discussions, experiences and understanding thereof!

Gary (am I entitled to call you Gary, GLB?), do you think that "An Emotional View of STO vs. STS" would be a more appropriate thread title?

The terming of the choice we make here being momentary but "the axis on which the Creation turns" evoked plenty of imagery and insight for me upon reading. Indeed, it's mindblowing to think that one small moment we use in our incarnation to consciously determine "I want to walk the path of Light/Dark", that small moment will completely determine the ENTIRETY of our remaining experience of the Creation. Every bit of catalyst and scenario we undergo uses our choice and will as the foundation.
(03-13-2012, 11:23 AM)Valtor Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-13-2012, 01:05 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]we came here to be bound by flesh and found in the end. creator blinded itself temporarily...

This may be so for Wanderers, but for those of us experiencing 3rd density for the first time, it's another mater. Smile

No, I'm sure the same applies for Earth sphere natives as well. Smile Being bound by the flesh and subjected to the material illusion is a staple of 3rd Density incarnation in this world, and indeed there is no "prerequisite" of being a Wanderer to be afforded the opportunity to happen upon awareness of the truth of ones nature as Creator in this place. All come to experience, all stay to learn, all eventually choose, all inevitably return to the One.
(03-13-2012, 01:36 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Mmm, the point however isn't that we are Creators undergoing voluntary amnesia nor what constitutes an urgent need or otherwise nor how one feels in differing altered states of consciousness. The point is to provide foundational clarification to what constitutes STO and STS as to avoid future confusion or misunderstanding. I also do not hold any clear cut views on what is right or wrong and acknowledge that this area varies for everyone. I am, however, attempting to offer a clear cut definition of the two distinct concepts.

i dunno the point, i was replying to something you said. so it's part of the point. you basically said entheogens and psychedelics are better than narcotics. i disagree strongly.
(03-13-2012, 11:10 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]The main determining factor is they are attempting to open the gateway through the third energy center. I can't find the quote where Ra says this. So they are completely dedicated towards absorbing power at the societal level. I wouldn't label many people that exhibit "negative' traits as sts, they're just confused by a heavy veil.

Daddy Ra Wrote:The negative path, as would call it, uses a combination of the yellow ray and the orange ray in its polarization patterns. These rays, used in a dedicated fashion, will bring about a contact with intelligent infinity. (32:2)
Oceania Wrote:even Ra said there is right and wrong but it's not always so self evident.

I'd like to see a quotation for this. My guiding perspective on Ra concerning right and wrong is this:

1.6
Ra Wrote:In truth there is no right or wrong

Oceania Wrote:I wouldn't label many people that exhibit "negative' traits as sts, they're just confused by a heavy veil.

This is an absolutely critical concept. Too often people are labeled either STS or STO (even by themselves), when in reality they are still only confused and do not yet know what the nature of the choice is. This confusion is rooted deep in the mind:

94.11
Ra Wrote:The deeper biases of a mind/body/spirit complex pilot the catalyst around the many isles of positivity and negativity as expressed in the archipelago of the deeper mind.

The many isles of positivity and negativity will remain until they are explored and transformed. If STS is chosen, the isles of positivity are taken into the self and transmuted through continuing waves of repression if they do not serve the self. If STO is chosen, the isles of negativity are taken into the self and transmuted through continuing waves of love into something that serves all.

I think it is also important to recognize what, in Shin'Ar's case, the issue of contention really was. For whatever reason, Shin'Ar seemed to think that the approach most people here adopt is one of condonement of the actions of STS entities. His perspective, for me, strongly underscores the 4D feeling that defense is necessary in response to the attacks of STS. And if we are to actually be effective in serving others, it is. However, what Shin'Ar did not seem to appreciate is that it is possible to love the aggressor, wish him well, accept him as he is, see the Creator in him -- and yet still bar him from aggression. In my mind, such a perspective is the epitome of wisdom as manifest in the sephirah Geburah. Geburah, in order to remain balanced, must work in tandem with Gedulah. If you exercise discipline in your treatment of another but do not keep love central in your mind as you do so, your exercise of discipline will quickly turn into an exercise of sadism. The flip-side of this coin is what Shin'Ar seemed to fear: if you do not keep restraint central in your mind when you exercise generosity, your generosity will quickly turn into an exercise of enabling or condoning.
i didn't say that in this thread.

if you want a quote from Ra i don't have it. but i know he said it. Ra said there IS right and wrong.
I'm not trying to antagonize, Oceania. I only thought you might know where Ra said that. I guess I'll trust my intuition on this one until I chance upon it in the Ra Material.
When I read the OP, it seems that godwide is doing the exact same thing he's criticizing: over-conceptualizing and compartmentalizing STS and STO. We know from the material of cases where sincere belief of STO behavior resulted in negative consequences. No, it's not rocket science, but esp within the illusion, one doesn't polarize to STO or STS without acting in accordance with natural law - not merely from the standpoint of man's circumstantial perception of what seems to be desirable.
spiritual pride
Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator. (4:20)

Ra Wrote:There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. (77:17)
(03-13-2012, 01:52 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]
Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator. (4:20)

Ra Wrote:There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. (77:17)

Indeed! All just IS.
i have SEEEN THE QUOTE!!! grrrrrrr you all keep quoting the stuff Ra said but Ra said there IS right and wrong. i know Ra did.
(03-13-2012, 11:40 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Gary (am I entitled to call you Gary, GLB?), do you think that "An Emotional View of STO vs. STS" would be a more appropriate thread title?

Fo sho! I use Gary and GLB interchangeably; that is when I am not in my home country where I am called, "Your Lordship", or, "Sovereign of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith". Wink

As to renaming the thread, if you would like to, your suggested title sounds great. Or if you wanted to make it more general you could say, "Another slant on STO vs. STS", "Seeking definitions of STS vs. STO", etc.

Though given the abundance of polarity-related threads, specifying the particular angle of approach would prob be helpful.

In short, I support your free will to name as you see fit. : )


(03-13-2012, 11:40 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed, it's mindblowing to think that one small moment we use in our incarnation to consciously determine "I want to walk the path of Light/Dark", that small moment will completely determine the ENTIRETY of our remaining experience of the Creation.

I know, right? What a bad hangover to, choose service to self in that "instant" of third-density and wake up on the flip side of fourth density saying, "OH F*CK, what was I thinking? That's the last time I'm getting drunk on power and greed."



Oceania, I saw that quote too!

Not.

(That was a well-timed "not", don't you think? Oh man... just kidding.)

Sorry sister but I am of the opinion also that such a quote does not exist. Love to be mistaken about this, and if you find it you definitely get Bring4th Member-of-the-Month parking. (It's a primo spot, right next to the elevator.)

Philosophically, here's my take on why Ra, messenger of the Law of One, would not/could not support "right/wrong" as anything but relative concepts.

In my opinion, "right" and "wrong" are concepts which are too dependent on shifting, arbitary, time-and-space-bound contexts.

There are any number of relative, subjective factors which determine what is right and what is wrong, including but not limited to: Ones age, culture, historical situation, geographical region, religion, depth of spiritual understanding, whether one has been recently given a wedgie, and biggest of all, polarity.

All other things being equal, the polarities have diametrically opposite and inverse views of right and wrong.

You and me and other third-density beings can utilize ethics of "right" and "wrong", and, short of enlightenment, probably should.

But from the standpoint of the Law of One, that which "blinks neither at the light nor the darkness", there is ultimately no such thing as right/wrong, just the Creator interacting with the Creator -- with more or less distortion.

With good love, GLB
sigh. well i have seen the quote. you're all jumping down my throat about it i will find it!!!
I would say that an STS entity which arrives in 4th density is perfectly fine with this choice. They are convinced that opening the heart chakra is folly. They experience pleasure not just in applying slavery, but in being slaves too. Hard for most of us STO in 3rd density to understand.
Some quotes where Ra mention "wrongness":

Ra Wrote:It is to be noted that these shapes are dangerous. We are quite pleased to have the opportunity to enlarge upon the subject of shapes such as the pyramid for we wish, as part of our honor/duty, to state that there are many wrong uses for these curved shapes; for with improper placement, improper intentions, or lack of the crystallized being functioning as channel for healing the sensitive entity will be distorted more rather than less in some cases. (56:3)

Ra Wrote:Furthermore, as we have said, the powerful effect of the pyramid, with its mandatory disruption of the armoring, if used without the crystallized being, used with the wrong intention, or in the wrong configuration, can result in further distortions of entities which are perhaps the equal of some of your chemicals which cause disruptions in the energy fields in like manner. (57:12)

Ra Wrote:In other words, good works for the wrong reasons cause confusion and distortion. (103:8)

Ra mention "rightness":

Ra Wrote:This negative entity will strive to offer these understandings to other-selves, most usually by the process of forming the elite, the disciples, and teaching the need and rightness of the enslavement of other-selves for their own good. (50:6)

Ra Wrote:The observation of the right angles and their transformational meaning is most perceptive, O student. (95:27)
Ankh, I'm sorry but you don't get the member-of-the-month parking spot. Those don't count. = )

I came close to referring to quotes like those. I thought about addressing Ra's uses of correct/incorrect, right/wrong in my own post, but opted not to as I attempted/hoped to cover the base with the underlined portion in this sentence:

"But from the standpoint of the Law of One, that which "blinks neither at the light nor the darkness", there is ultimately no such thing as right/wrong, just the Creator interacting with the Creator -- with more or less distortion."

I think (and could be... well... wrong) that from the standpoint of the Law of One, there is no right or wrong, as Ra said in an already quoted statement.

Within limited contexts, there certainly is "right" and "wrong".

From the unlimited standpoint of the Law of One, there, according to the Law of One Material, can be no right/wrong.

This may be a topic suited for better minds than mine.
SmileGLB


blinking is vague! Ra admitted there is wrong and right.
(03-13-2012, 04:20 PM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]blinking is vague! Ra admitted there is wrong and right.

Do you remember in what context it was done?
(03-13-2012, 04:03 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Ankh, I'm sorry but you don't get the member-of-the-month parking spot. Those don't count. = )

Dang!

=)
well i believe it was about wrong and right.

hahahahahaha on lawofone.info the last searches were wrong and right
(03-13-2012, 12:42 PM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-13-2012, 01:36 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Mmm, the point however isn't that we are Creators undergoing voluntary amnesia nor what constitutes an urgent need or otherwise nor how one feels in differing altered states of consciousness. The point is to provide foundational clarification to what constitutes STO and STS as to avoid future confusion or misunderstanding. I also do not hold any clear cut views on what is right or wrong and acknowledge that this area varies for everyone. I am, however, attempting to offer a clear cut definition of the two distinct concepts.

i dunno the point, i was replying to something you said. so it's part of the point. you basically said entheogens and psychedelics are better than narcotics. i disagree strongly.

Though I am of the opinion that psychedelics/entheogens are vastly more beneficial than narcotics, it is not what I stated. I only made the distinction between the states of being caused by the differing classes of drugs. I will also refrain from entering into a debate concerning the pros and cons of each as that will turn into a long-winded rant that will only lead this thread astray and what I express will probably do little to change your mind anyways as I presume you have perhaps had positive experiences with narcotics which leads you to believe they have the greater value, and kudos to you if you had.

I'm sorry, but for me, it is simply impossible to view substances which produce temporary, artificial chemical 'bliss', possible addiction and eventual potential decrepitude as being of benefit to the serious seeker (the substances I refer to would be crack, heroin, meth, cocaine, prescription opiates, etc.) Psychedelics literally translate to "mind expanding", and entheogens to "manifesting/awakening the divine within"; such definitions could not be truer, as these serve as excellent psychonautical tools to facilitate insight, reflection, complete reconfiguration of one's conceptual maps of reality, "ego death", enhanced mental capabilities in the case of psychedelics and the same applies for entheogens, except with the added bonus of the possibility of experiencing profound and ineffable mystical states of being - I view and approach the entheogenic experience as a means of divine communion.

Rather than haphazard intoxication or fogginess, these have promoted positive life-changing experiences and refined outlooks on the world. I mean, if you could point me to a heroin addict who has undergone a breathless, ecstatic experience of divine rapture or whose life changed from spiritual cleansing after injecting a bunch of junk into their veins, then by all means bring them out, as they'd certainly be the exception as opposed to being strung out in some dark, shady alley with diminished integrity and lack of self-respect. But hey, the world doesn't move to the beat of just one drum... what might be right for you, might not be right for some. In the end all serves as a learning experience, and if whatever someone is into proves to be beneficial and useful to them and responsible usage isn't an issue, then more power to them.

(03-13-2012, 01:35 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]When I read the OP, it seems that godwide is doing the exact same thing he's criticizing: over-conceptualizing and compartmentalizing STS and STO. We know from the material of cases where sincerity belief of STO resulted in negative consequences. No, it's not rocket science, but esp with the ilusion, one doesn't polarize to STO or STS without acting in accordance with natural law - not merely from the standpoint man's circumstantial perception of what seems to be desirable.

I stand guilty as charged, in that in my bid to try to offer a simpler, more "watered down" definition of the two concepts by I unintentionally ended up compartmentalizing and over (or under) conceptualizing them while attempting to avoid it in the first place. Though I still did manage to offer a simpler, more emotively oriented view of them that may be better applied in the context of our everyday lives. However, may you please elaborate upon the last sentence of your post zenmaster?
(03-13-2012, 03:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-13-2012, 11:40 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed, it's mindblowing to think that one small moment we use in our incarnation to consciously determine "I want to walk the path of Light/Dark", that small moment will completely determine the ENTIRETY of our remaining experience of the Creation.

I know, right? What a bad hangover to, choose service to self in that "instant" of third-density and wake up on the flip side of fourth density saying, "OH F*CK, what was I thinking? That's the last time I'm getting drunk on power and greed."

Very interesting and highly accurate depiction/analogy of what post-Harvest for those of the highly negative polarity might be, as being a bad hangover. Though in doing so you also offer a very wise piece of advice, to never get drunk upon power and greed, and by extension knowledge as well (which ties in with power). Despite learning and understanding all that I have, I attempt to retain a very humble, selfless, calm and reserved disposition in life. In fact, for a very long time after discovering the Law of One material I would exclusively avoid ever thinking "I am Creator" and focused instead upon extensively viewing all others around me as Creator instead due to my preconception that the former thought would lead to megalomania, a "god complex", etc. I believe I have now reached a sufficient enough level of spiritual discipline and maturity in my eyes that I do not have to chain my thoughts so much as I take great care to never allow myself to fall into modes of thinking fraught with arrogance, pride, or conceitedness when I am in contemplation. I prevent unwholesome thoughts of such a nature from arising in the first place by "guarding the sense doors" to an extreme degree, carefully scrutinizing and analyzing every thought which enters my mind, allowing and sustaining only those thoughts which are aligned with positivity, humbleness, compassion, piety, etc. I cannot help but remember what that Zaxon fellow stated in his 'Greetings From The Dark' thread; "I present myself with the arrogance of one who comprehends himself as Creator".
(03-13-2012, 10:27 PM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-13-2012, 01:35 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]When I read the OP, it seems that godwide is doing the exact same thing he's criticizing: over-conceptualizing and compartmentalizing STS and STO. We know from the material of cases where sincerity belief of STO resulted in negative consequences. No, it's not rocket science, but esp with the ilusion, one doesn't polarize to STO or STS without acting in accordance with natural law - not merely from the standpoint man's circumstantial perception of what seems to be desirable.

I stand guilty as charged, in that in my bid to try to offer a simpler, more "watered down" definition of the two concepts by I unintentionally ended up compartmentalizing and over (or under) conceptualizing them while attempting to avoid it in the first place. Though I still did manage to offer a simpler, more emotively oriented view of them that may be better applied in the context of our everyday lives. However, may you please elaborate upon the last sentence of your post zenmaster?
Natural law, which is the logos, which is the 'love' that provides the polarization opportunity in the first place. Does the would-be polarizing entity understand this law? Not a chance. When called to task, it is necessarily compartmentalized in some manner due to tremendous lack of awareness, and lack of acceptance. Or as Ra said "This is not to denigrate those who, in green and blue-ray energies, sought to free a peaceable people from the bonds of chaos but only to point out the inevitable consequences of codification of response which does not recognize the uniqueness of each and every situation within your experience."

No one recognizes such uniqueness, nor do they truly see any participant or any act, nor do they recognize that which is noumenal (things as they are), nor can they. So those guidelines with respect to what constitutes service are impotent due to being dissociated from any actual, real opportunities provided.

"It is a necessary balance to the intention of law, which is to protect, that the result would encompass an equal distortion towards imprisonment."
you can't say tho, that that's any better. those drugs that make uyou expand are a shotcut into the divine. and drugs such as speed can be used to expand the mind as well. i've experienced this.
I believe I get the gist of what you're saying, zenmaster. The entity in the process of polarization is initially not aware of the machinations of such a process, and the very process itself is not a linear one occurring in a limited number of circumstances; there are an infinite variety of ways in which it may manifest and be set in motion.

Oceania, these drugs are only considered a "shortcut to enlightenment" to those who are already not upon a spiritual path in the first place. It cannot be denied that certain states are much easier and exclusively experienced through high doses and meditation, but there also exists the problem of coming across knowledge much quicker than one is ready to receive. Merely being exposed to divine states and so-called "enlightening knowledge" is not enough, for it is INTEGRATION of what one has learned in these states into your life which is key. For a time the function they held for me was to seek an answer. I have found my answer. The function now has changed. They are no longer "keys to the gate" as I have long opened the gate, and instead now serve as tools alongside my personal spiritual and shamanic practices, the reasons varying. It is when one incorporates them into their spiritual journey as opposed to simply only going on a spiritual journey everytime they "trip" that lies the difference. Also, one should be more grateful of the various gifts the Creator has left Itself so as to better have the opportunity to jettison awakening of Itself through these gifts.

I'm not demonizing or belittling you for preferring one over the other though, just keep that in mind. If speed has served some positive purpose in your life and is not negatively affecting any aspect of your life, then nobody has any place to tell you otherwise. One point I was trying to get across though, is that it is completely and utterly impossible for speed to allow one to experience what DMT will.
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