Bring4th

(09-02-2009, 12:51 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]How coincidental that at the same moment I was writing the same answer you asked to the same overlapping question/thread here at the same moment I was answering it on the Oahspe thread...

...In short, it seems highly improbable

To avoid duplication and fragmentation of this very important discussion, I will refer others to your comments on the other thread here.

Greetings to all friends here, Monica, Quantum, 3D Sunset, Lavazza,
I've read about 75% of this thread... thank you for posting.

I thought it may be a good idea to send the direct url where you can download the Book of Oahspe since it is the main topic of this thread. Thank you for posting previous urls; it is from there that I found the actual downloading page. I have tried to read some of it but oo... it has a bitter after taste somehow. Anyway, this is for your perusal. Best of luck!

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/oahspe3/odownload.html

It is comprised of several books and here is the summary of the long list of books including the topics presented. Here it goes:

'' THE PUBLISHER’S SYNOPSIS AND INDEX OF OAHSPE, THE NEW BIBLE.
LIBERTY FIRST OF ALL; THEN DISCIPLINE AND HARMONY
AND THEN THE DEVELOPMENT OF ALL THE TALENTS JEHOVIH CREATED WITH ALL.
This is a book of books, namely:

OAHSPE. Page 16.

THE VOICE OF MAN. Page 17.

BOOK OF JEHOVIH. Page 21. In His own words; Who He is; His creations; how He createth worlds; their ages, destinations and dissolutions; His etherean heavens; habitations of angels; the origin of life on a planet (Se'muan period); the origin of man;what he was like. The chief of the angels named God. Ashars, guardian angels and Lords.

BOOK OF SETHANTES, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 34. First God of the earth and her heavens, in His own words. Teaching man to walk on two feet; teaching him words of speech; providing him with guardian angels and Lords. God established the first heaven of the earth. He visits the earth. The LOO'is, the masters of generations. End of sub-cycle. God's successor. Marriage in heaven. Ascent of the first God of earth with his harvest for the
higher heavens. Drujas.

FIRST BOOK OF THE FIRST LORDS. Page 71. The I'hins, the druks, the Yaks, the A'su. See plate, comparative size. Another heavenly kingdom established and named Yeshuah; origin of the words Ieue and Iesu on earth. Origin of saying mass.

BOOK OF AS’SHONG, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 78. Second God of the earth and her heavens, in His own words. The beginning of villages and cities; the beginning of wearing clothes.

SECOND BOOK OF LORDS. Page 92. In their own words.

SYNOPSIS OF SIXTEEN CYCLES. Page 95. Of three thousand years each, in the words of Jehovih's angel Embassadors. Submersion of the continent of Pan in the Pacific Ocean, commonly call, THE FLOOD. This brings history to twenty-four thousand years ago.

BOOK OF APH, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 102. In his own words. His charge, breaking the crust of the earth, sinking the continent; how he ccomplished it; and why; establishing the earth's second heavens; appointment of five new Lords; three thousand years.

THE LORDS’ FIRST BOOK. Page 130. In their own words. The great and high state of civilization man attained; the earth covered over with three times more people than at present; then the fall of civilization; its cause; and the earth became again a barren wilderness; three thousand years.

BOOK OF SUE, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 140. In his own words. Re-peopling the earth; periods of war succeeding; deformities of the races of men; the earth overrun with monstrosities; three thousand years.

THE LORDS’ SECOND BOOK. Page 153.

BOOK OF APOLLO, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 157. In the words of Jehovih's angel Embassador. The changing of monstrosities into well-formed men; how it was done; why this labor fell to Apollo; his establishing of new heavens for the earth; three thousand years. 11 .

THE LORDS’ THIRD BOOK. Page 175. In their own words. Their method of dealing with mortals; the beginning of monogamic marriages; man regaining the use of his vocal organs; three thousand years.

BOOK OF THOR, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 180. In his own words. A period of miracles; angels again walking the earth with mortals.

THE LORDS’ FORTH BOOK. Page 190

BOOK OF OSIRIS, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page.196. Revelations of the stars, the sun, moon and other planets; instruments for measuring the same; an age of disbelief; no angels appearing for more than three thousand years.

THE LORDS’ FIFTH BOOK. Page 223.

BOOK OF FRAGAPATTI, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 235. The raising up of Zarathustra (Zoroaster); his birth by a virgin; his life; locality; his preaching; the wheel of crucifixion; his death; cast into a den of lions; his re-appearance after death; origin of the red hat (cardinal's); blood in the lion's den; the zodiac; Fragapatti draws the plans for the ultimate redemption of the earth. This brings us down to eight thousand nine
hundred years ago. Fragapatti reveals the plans of the higher and lower heavens. He also establishes different heavens for each of the continents of the earth; and he appoints a Lord for each of them; three thousand years. Zarathustrian bible.

BOOK OF GOD’S WORD. Page 323. Revelations to man, in the words of God.

BOOK OF DIVINITY. Page.374. The DIVAN LAWS. Who was the Div; its duration, three thousand years; its dominion on the earth, and in the earth's heavens; the Divan Seal.

BOOK OF CPENTA-ARMIJ, DAUGHTER OF JEHOVIH. Page 417. This was the Dawn of Spe-ta, of the time of Abraham of Arabia, Brahma of India and Po of China; the time of the SUN KINGDOMS on earth. Who these men were, and how they were raised up; Yutiv, Brahma's wife; their resurrection in a sea of fire. Bible of Abraham, bible of Brahma and bible of Po, all reproduced. Eawahtah (Hiawatha) the flatheads; the mound-builders; their bible; their language and mode of life. In the words of God.

FIRST BOOK OF GOD . Page 446.

BOOK OF WARS AGAINST JEHOVIH. Page 496. Sawing of the prophet Isaah (Isaiah) in twain; the slaughter of the Ihua'Mazdians (Jehovih worshipers) in India and China. The false Lord God; the original De'yus or Dyaus, or Deity; the fall of the Divan (Divine) Laws of heaven. The new heavenly kingdoms of the earth; the false Gods' kingdoms; beginning of oracles. In the words of Jehovih's Embassador. Confederacy of false Gods in the lower heavens. Building of the great pyramid, and its purposes.

BOOK OF LIKA, SON OF JEHOVIH. Page 612. Descent of the etherean Gods and Goddesses from the higher etherean heavens; the dawn of the Arc of Bon; two thousand four hundred years.

BOOK OF THE ARC OF BON. Page 656. The raising up of Moses, Capilya and Chine; their miracles in Egypt, India and China; the deliverance of the Faithists in Jehovih. Who these men were; how Moses got into Pharaoh's garden; his education. In the words of God. The origin of the name of Moses; the miracles of Moses taking four millions of people out of Egypt; his concert of action with the etherean Gods. The 12 bible of Moses; the original song of Moses; bible of Capilya; bible of Chine of China; Chine's death and resurrection from a field of ashes; his appearance after his resurrection; why the land was named after him; the reign of peace in China; how it became called the Flowery Kingdom; triumph of the Faithists; how and why Lika appointed the Faithists (Israelites) to go westward whilst their brethern held China and India to the All One.

GOD’S BOOK OF BEN. Page.720. The eight entities and Jehovih; science, philosophy, metaphysics, etc, etc.; the etherean Gods' re-appearance.

BOOK OF COSMOGONY AND PROPHECY. Page 751. The plans of the corporeal worlds; overthrow of the doctrine of attraction of gravitation; no force existing or extending from one planet to another; neither light nor heat comes from the sun to the earth; the atmospherean vortices; the solar vortex; the great serpent (phalanx); defection of man's measurements of heavenly bodies; defections of the observations; magnifying power of vortices; cause of the photospheres, polar lights, velocities, electricity, magnetism, life, growth; meteors, nebula, clouds, wind and wind currents; ocean currents; how to regulate the temperature of the earth by man; how to bring rain showers; cause of tornadoes,
waterspouts; famines, epidemics, and how to prophesy by astronomical knowledge.

BOOK OF SAPHAH. Page 791. Philology; origin of languages; how to prove them as to origin, duration, and kind of people who spoke them; hieroglyphs, and how to read them; tracing of language down from Panic, through Yi'ha, Chinese, Vedic, Sanskrit, Hebrew, and so on down to English; how to find what an English word would be in Panic; thorax words and their era; labial words and their era; nasal words and their era; how to determine what the language of the future will be; how to find original bibles; how to find the speech of an extinct race.

BON’S BOOK OF PRAISE. Page 876. Somewhat in the style of Psalms of David, but relating mostly to the heavens of the earth and to etherea.

GOD’S BOOK OF ESKRA. Page 893. A spiritual history from the time of Moses down to the discovery of America; also a history of the heavens of the earth for the same period of time; descriptions of the heavens of the Brahmins, of the Buddhists, of the Christians and of the Mohammedans, with rules and signs for determining the same.

BOOK OF E’S, DAUGHTER OF JEHOVIH. Page 983. A sacred history of man since the last four hundred years down to the present, and for some time in the future. The above books give an account of the lower heavens, or spirit world, during the same periods of time. They describe the first, second and third resurrections in atmospherea; tell what the angels do, how they live, give their training and discipline; describe wandering spirits, familiar spirits, vampire spirits, demon spirits, engrafting spirits who live on mortals, teaching reincarnation; spirit powers over mortals; chaotic spirits on battle-fields; lost spirits in haunted houses; obsessions, entrancement, spirit manifestations, how to get them; how to determine what realm a spirit belongs to, and who he is; how spirits deceive mortals; how selfish spirits in the lower heavens make slaves of their dupes after death and entrance into heaven; how to acquire prophecy and seer-ship; the delusion of the magnetic sleep; of spirit control; how to know the nature of spiritual communications; how mortals are graded by the Gods, and their status known in heaven; how nations fall; why cities are burnt down; how spirits can cast pestilence and contagious diseases; how the offspring of mortals are controlled; how any one may determine into what realm of heaven he will 13 enter after death; how to determine the time of his bondage and of his emancipation; how to determine the place in heaven where a king or queen will go; where a rich man will go; the length of the time of bondage of any of them in the lower heavens; how any one may discover his own grade, as to where he will go; how they work themselves out of bondage in the lowest heavens; the necessity of purifying ourselves in flesh and in thoughts before we are companionable to pure angels; rites and ceremonies; discipline and communities in heaven; ships in the higher heavens that carry thousands of millions of angels in the etherean seas, and on excursions of thousands of years; the great firmament, etherea, filled with thousands of millions of etherean worlds, habitable within and without; the labors of Gods and Goddesses; the insignificance of earth and its heavens, atmospherea; what is meant by higher and lower heavens; how mortals can attain to receive communications from the first resurrection, from the second resurrection and from the third, and even from Gods and Goddesses; what is purification; how to purity one's self, in flesh, and in spirit; how to know when a spirit communication is from the second resurrection or from the first; how to raise children; the coming race; the cosmopolitan, in the words of God; who is God; who is Lord; what is liberty, and how to attain it. The false Kriste inspireth the destruction of the Quakers. Cotton Mather. Angels of the inquisitions; how appropriated by the Lord. The republic established. Of Thomas Paine, inspired by God. Washington protected by the angels of God. God casteth out the four false Gods. Jehovih judgeth the false Gods. Of the Mormons, Shakers, Swedenborgians. President Lincoln directed by the angels of Jehovih to liberate the slaves.

BOOK OF JUDGMENT. Page 1018. God's judgment upon the Brahmins, Budhists, Kriste'yans (Christians), Mohammedans, Confucians and Jews. The numbers of judgment, in the words of God. Of the Jews. Of resurrections. A day of judgment. God decreeth against infidelity. Of the Father's kingdom on earth. God showeth how to judge the angels that minister to mortals. Of the second resurrection. Of ascetics. God judgeth charities. God showeth how to do charity. God judgeth the missionaries. God judgeth dominions. Judgment against the man of promise; against war. God judgeth of exclusiveness. China and Japan thrown open. Grades. God declares against the government of man.

BOOK OF INSPIRATION. Page 1076. The beginning of knowledge. How knowledge cometh to man; everything is inspiration. Times and seasons of the Kosmon Era. Holy compact day. Holy veil day. Fallen sword's day. Holy Kosmon day.

BOOK OF JEHOVIH’S KINGDOM ON EARTH. Page 1092. Which containeth within it the

BOOK OF SHALEM. History of Shalam. The holy covenant. Covenant of the brotherhood. ''

--------------
I went there and, it is enormous with 1132 pages in normal font and, with a kind of oldish style which renders it odd to read, as in a doctrine old biblical English style.
Now, from my point of view, I cannot say I like the name of 'Jehovih'. When there is the name of an entity, I wonder who that is.

I'll go for my meditation now . It is a more direct line of communication from Confederation.

With Love and Light,
W.

(09-02-2009, 11:30 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]It seems to me that this statement indicates a clear difference of philosophy between the confederation and the Oahspe author. I would expect a confederation entity to infact take the exact opposite stance, that we of Earth should proceed in confusion and come to find the truth of matters by our own means. Basically the principals of freewill, which as we know Confederation sources make no small issue of.

Hi Lavazza,

(First, thank you your kind note, I've replied via PM.) As to the above, I think that you may be reading too much into this statement. Consider first: What is revelation? If you subscribe to the definition that revelation is "the act or process of disclosing something previously secret or obscure, esp something true", then this can still be done within the bounds of free will. Especially if one is freely seeking the revelation even through meditation or prayer.

Now consider that the Law of One clearly has provided "knowledge of the forces and currents of the unseen worlds and their dominion over the seen world". As such, did the Law of One infringe upon your free will by sharing this knowledge? I'm sure you would say not. Why? Because you were seeking the revelation.

Now consider someone that is not seeking. Were you to share some of this knowledge with them from the Law of One (or heaven forbid Oahspe), would their free will have been infringed? Hmm, well maybe yes and maybe not. They could easily discount your shared knowledge as absurd based upon the fact that the source of this knowledge was "an ascended alien speaking through a librarian to an airline pilot". That is to say, there is sufficient room for them to choose to disbelieve. If however, they were not searching, but still saw the wisdom in your shared knowledge, and accepted it as fact, then they may indeed have been infringed. But not by Ra, or Don or Carla or Jim, or the publisher, but by you. (Note, whether or not they were actually infringed, is more a function of how they react now being enlightened. It is quite possible that you were sent by their higher self to share just this tidbit of wisdom, knowing that it would awaken them).

The way I read the passage (and I read the entire two chapters in your link), what I hear the author saying and pardon my paraphrasing is that if someone misunderstands the source of prophecies, then they should be corrected by insight. Insight being another term for revelation. The fact that the author would suggest Oahspe as an acceptable source for this insight simply returns us to the earlier discussion. Put another way, I see the author recommending that prophets search for the true source of their prophecies, through divine revelation.

After reading the two chapters that you provided the link for, I must say that I think we are spending too much mental capital on this work. It is clear to me that the Confederate source of the material is now working overtime to try to remove the distortions from the resultant work and minimize the distortions that it has caused in those seeing the Law of One. I would further point out that by examining the resultant work in such detail vis-a-vis a much less distorted work called the Law of One, and thereby questioning the entire process of Council review of material to be transmitted, thereby creating suspicion of the least distorted work available at time present, we are in reality creating this poor SMC a lot more work.

I say, let's give him a break and stop dwelling on his mistake (though I'm sure Ra wouldn't refer to it as one),

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

(09-02-2009, 03:09 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]After reading the two chapters that you provided the link for, I must say that I think we are spending too much mental capital on this work. It is clear to me that the Confederate source of the material is now working overtime to try to remove the distortions from the resultant work and minimize the distortions that it has caused in those seeing the Law of One. I would further point out that by examining the resultant work in such detail vis-a-vis a much less distorted work called the Law of One, and thereby questioning the entire process of Council review of material to be transmitted, thereby creating suspicion of the least distorted work available at time present, we are in reality creating this poor Social Memory Complex a lot more work.

I say, let's give him a break and stop dwelling on his mistake (though I'm sure Ra wouldn't refer to it as one),

I agree with your entire post, 3D! Very well said!

(09-02-2009, 04:56 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2009, 03:09 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]After reading the two chapters that you provided the link for, I must say that I think we are spending too much mental capital on this work. It is clear to me that the Confederate source of the material is now working overtime to try to remove the distortions from the resultant work and minimize the distortions that it has caused in those seeing the Law of One. I would further point out that by examining the resultant work in such detail vis-a-vis a much less distorted work called the Law of One, and thereby questioning the entire process of Council review of material to be transmitted, thereby creating suspicion of the least distorted work available at time present, we are in reality creating this poor Social Memory Complex a lot more work.

I say, let's give him a break and stop dwelling on his mistake (though I'm sure Ra wouldn't refer to it as one),

I agree with your entire post, 3D! Very well said!

Agreed here too! We now live in another time (if there is such a thing!). I mean that when one has read the Law of One, the Book of Oashpe looks like a step before, which, and we are grateful for its existence, may however have been a necessary step for rendering possible the contact with Ra.

L/L
W.

(09-02-2009, 03:09 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]After reading the two chapters that you provided the link for, I must say that I think we are spending too much mental capital on this work. It is clear to me that the Confederate source of the material is now working overtime to try to remove the distortions from the resultant work and minimize the distortions that it has caused in those seeing the Law of One. I would further point out that by examining the resultant work in such detail vis-a-vis a much less distorted work called the Law of One, and thereby questioning the entire process of Council review of material to be transmitted, thereby creating suspicion of the least distorted work available at time present, we are in reality creating this poor Social Memory Complex a lot more work.

I say, let's give him a break and stop dwelling on his mistake (though I'm sure Ra wouldn't refer to it as one)

Why, you don't want to help me figure out next how it is that the moon is self-luminous? (I am listening to the collective sigh coming from said social memory complex...)

In all seriousness, I think you have the right idea and we should probably let it rest. Quite likely there is simply no way to rectify the two works, The LOO & Oahspe. A large part of me at the same time rebels saying "Nay, Nay! Make sense of it all!". But since we are indeed in a world of unknowing I shall attempt contentment. Having earlier decided that TLOO is not an authoritative work, I am released from my self imposed requirement for complete, ah shall I say, truthiness (to borrow from the one known as Colbert).

Perhaps I can fall back on a theory of mine from earlier this year about such contradictions (as seen above) and information about self-luminous moons and pyramid-thought construction as "free-will fail safes" as it were.

Eh, who knows. Fun food for through at any rate! (to the Oahspe-SMC who is listening in to this thread, please accept our collective apologies)

(09-02-2009, 03:09 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]After reading the two chapters that you provided the link for, I must say that I think we are spending too much mental capital on this work.... I would further point out that by examining the resultant work in such detail vis-a-vis a much less distorted work called the Law of One, and thereby questioning the entire process of Council review of material to be transmitted, thereby creating suspicion of the least distorted work available at time present, we are in reality creating this poor Social Memory Complex a lot more work....I say, let's give him a break and stop dwelling on his mistake (though I'm sure Ra wouldn't refer to it as one),

Monica Wrote:I agree with your entire post, 3D! Very well said!

whitefeather Wrote:Agreed here too! We now live in another time (if there is such a thing!). I mean that when one has read the Law of One, the Book of Oashpe looks like a step before, which, and we are grateful for its existence, may however have been a necessary step for rendering possible the contact with Ra.

I would in all fairness never wish to end any originator's post if there were more questions or study wishing to be asked or explored. I'm sure the Council might agree, in as much as it might not be the "mistake" it so lightly has been assumed it is. I surely don't know. I have admitted it left me greatly puzzled, particularly after such an arduous read to be sure. A-h-h-h..."But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now" (Bob Dylan).

The fact that it is puzzling however doesn't make it unworthy of a quick study or questioning by any means, such as Lavazza and more recently Whitefeather offered with his above post, but most especially as Ra shared it passed the Council. To my knowledge and recollection this is the single book ever given this kudo to by Ra. That makes it different than any other book as a result, second only to the LOO by logic alone. I would further speculate that "our time" (the LOO) verses "that time" (the Oashpe) is no doubt far less time to the Council which passed it, and that a truth would stand the test of time in any case to a greater extent than to a lessor, this at the very least in considering the span of only a mere two hundred years (two grandfathers for heaven's sake). Perhaps this argument would be better made as regards several million millennium. I don't know.

To perhaps a more noble point however, I would respectfully as a group at the very least offer as a rule in civility that it always be the originator's call as opposed to any of it's participants of whether to end a thread or not, assuming the thread is within the guidelines. As such Lavazza, it is in my humble estimation, for whatever thats worth, that its your call and yours alone, as it should be as regards any thread. Beware however that once an originator has given a gift, that it might just keep giving and giving, even if you do wish to end it, this by virtue of the fact that any participant might continue to wish to explore nonetheless...as he should.

I will offer I have little more to add however, and that in large part this thread has perhaps progressed and grown into a more interesting one on the "Distortion Principle" under the "Confederation" thread on "Life On Planet Earth." We may refer to the "infringement of free will principle" there, as well as to the Oashpe to a lessor extent in general as example only. In deference to you, or any originator, Oh Great Originator of this the Oashpe thread, what sayeth thou?



Q

(09-02-2009, 06:22 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]We may refer to the "infringement of free will principle" there, as well as to the Oashpe to a lessor extent in general as example only. In deference to you, or any originator, Oh Great Originator of this the Oashpe thread, what sayeth thou?

You must find the greatest tree in the forest... and then cut it down, wiiiiiiiiiiiith... A HERRING!

In my estimation, for what it is worth, I pose that the thread live on for as long as any here wish to ponder the topic it contains. The "conlcusion" we have reached in loose agreement, that there can be no resolve, may only be the consensus for the moment. Who knows what new information will arise, or what one will find by chance six months from now. We are transitioning in to a 'new age' so to speak, where the veil ever becomes increasingly thin. Perhaps sometime down the road we'll have an Oahspe scholar join the forum and wish to chime in. At any rate, certainly this thread has yielded much insight for those such as myself who ever wish to understand the principals of TLOO, and especially where it regards paradox, contradiction and so forth. So I would hope that it can live on even if in somewhat of a zombie state, (now dying, now coming back to life), being posted to here and there when one finds the inspiration.

In short, I fully endorse the future zombie Oahspe thread!

(09-02-2009, 06:22 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]...most especially as Ra shared it passed the Council. To my knowledge and recollection this is the single book ever given this kudo to by Ra.

That could have more to do with the way the questions were posed and the direction the sessions took, than with whether or not other books met the same criteria.

Wasn't Dewey Larson's work approved? If not by Council, then by Ra?

(09-02-2009, 06:22 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]That makes it different than any other book as a result, second only to the LOO by logic alone.

I think that's a stretch. I would only justify that conclusion if all books had been inquired about. Which they weren't. We all know that Ra was selective as to when they volunteered info not asked about.

(09-02-2009, 06:22 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]I would further speculate that "our time" (the LOO) verses "that time" (the Oashpe) is no doubt far less time to the Council which passed it, and that a truth would stand the test of time in any case to a greater extent than to a lessor, this at the very least in considering the span of only a mere two hundred years (two grandfathers for heaven's sake). Perhaps this argument would be better made as regards several million millennium.

If the info pertained to Ra, then I would agree. But it didn't. The info was either passed or not passed, based on its impact on us. And, to us, that 200 years happened to be at a time when there was a lot of upheaval in terms of technology, society, and consciousness.

(09-02-2009, 06:22 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]To perhaps a more noble point however, I would respectfully as a group at the very least offer as a rule in civility that it always be the originator's call as opposed to any of it's participants of whether to end a thread or not, assuming the thread is within the guidelines. As such Lavazza, it is in my humble estimation, for whatever thats worth, that its your call and yours alone, as it should be as regards any thread. Beware however that once an originator has given a gift, that it might just keep giving and giving, even if you do wish to end it, this by virtue of the fact that any participant might continue to wish to explore nonetheless...as he should.

Anyone may choose to cease participating in any thread. Likewise, anyone may choose to continue the discussion, with or without the originator of the thread.

I'd like to pause for a minute also- and simply express my gratitude to each of you here at bring4th for your continued interest and participation in threads that I've started such as this. Truly I do feel blessed to have such an excellent resource at my fingertips, and to be apart of it. Where's my 'pint of beer' emoticon when I need it? Cheers to you all.

Also, I will not claim ownership in the classical sense of this thread, nor any thread. But I will invite any and all to continue participating as they feel compelled. Cheers Monica, and keep up the good 'modding!

(09-02-2009, 07:56 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Cheers Monica, and keep up the good 'modding!

Thanks! I appreciate that a lot!

(09-02-2009, 06:22 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]I would in all fairness never wish to end any originator's post if there were more questions or study wishing to be asked or explored. I'm sure the Council might agree, in as much as it might not be the "mistake" it so lightly has been assumed it is. I surely don't know. I have admitted it left me greatly puzzled, particularly after such an arduous read to be sure. A-h-h-h..."But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now" (Bob Dylan).

I will offer I have little more to add however, and that in large part this thread has perhaps progressed and grown into a more interesting one on the "Distortion Principle" under the "Confederation" thread on "Life On Planet Earth." We may refer to the "infringement of free will principle" there, as well as to the Oashpe to a lessor extent in general as example only. In deference to you, or any originator, Oh Great Originator of this the Oashpe thread, what sayeth thou?

Q

Hi Q,

I quite agree with your sentiment, and really didn't intend to wrest control of the thread from its originator in order to squelch it, as it may have seemed. Rather, I was simply trying to offer a convenient segue, as it were, as well as a convenient excuse to stop beating the drum, so to speak.

It is and remains of course, up to the participants to decide when to depart a thread. I would never hope/suggest/intend to infringe upon the free will of any who wish to continue the discussion. I will say, though that I feel my time is better spent on other topics, as you too have indicated, and as I find nothing more of interest to me now in this one.

Please though, I do encourage any and all to continue with the considerations of self-luminosity of the moon and other such topics to your hearts content. I do humbly suggest that as you do, you offer a prayer of thanks to the source SMC, thanking it for these wonderful enigmas you now try to unravel.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

3D Wrote:Hi Q,
I quite agree with your sentiment, and really didn't intend to wrest control of the thread from its originator in order to squelch it, as it may have seemed. Rather, I was simply trying to offer a convenient segue...

As always 3D, I hoped and felt my suggestion for a "rule of civility" to an originator of a thread would be appreciated, particularly from yourself. You have always struck me as singularly fair minded, as well as truly insightful and respectful. It was for Lavazza's sake, as much as our own, or any originator, as well as the forum in general that the suggestion was made. Given it is our hope that the Forum continues to evolve and grow, perhaps out of "civility" alone, such a consideration might be self imposed vs a hard and fast rule. There needn't ever be a rule where consideration to all is self imposed.

By the way....with respect to the insightfulness statement, I continue to remain extremely interested to learn how you are able to pull from the Ra quotes as quickly as you seem to. Perhaps it only appears that way? Are you also forced, as I am, to read the entire page, or worse, search many similar pages, this as a result of any one word or sentence typed into the search field on http://www.lawofone.info/ ? If so, I commend you even more for your patience as well. Perhaps however you have found a more expeditious manner?

I remain as always, your friend on the other side of the Universe...(and yo dude, in some respects Florida seems to be "like" even further "man", this by flip flops, cut offs, bikes, bikinis, and attitudes alone in Margaritaville...)

diggin the sun,

Q

(09-03-2009, 11:20 AM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]By the way....with respect to the insightfulness statement, I continue to remain extremely interested to learn how you are able to pull from the Ra quotes as quickly as you seem to. Perhaps it only appears that way? Are you also forced, as I am, to read the entire page, or worse, search many similar pages, this as a result of any one word or sentence typed into the search field on http://www.lawofone.info/ ? If so, I commend you even more for your patience as well. Perhaps however you have found a more expeditious manner?

Hi Q,

The process is about 50% intuition and 50% perspiration. I begin by contemplating the quote I seek. I have a fairly good - but far from photogenic - memory, so while in my contemplation mode, I explore words or phrases that relate closely to the topic. I have also developed a fairly good instinct as to which book the quote resides in. After a few moments of contemplation, I am struck with a list of words or phrases for which to search in an prioritized list of books. If I find that there are too many hits on a search, I move along to my next choice, but usually I can find the quote I seek in the 1-2 book and on the 1-5 hit of my first search.

That said, I sometimes let a search run on even though I'm not finding what I wanted, because I find that I am learning something I didn't expect. Doing these searches across all five books over time, has given me some very useful insights into how certain topics integrate across the works, thus building a more holistic view of the works.

I also, on occasion, ask for a search word or phrase as I come out of meditation. This always provides me some interesting information that is applicable to my life at the time or to my current studies in the LOO.

Does that help,

Love and Light (but not so much as to sunburn there in Florida, Dear friend),

3D Sunset

Another quick tip if you are using lawofone.info is to search for a word within a webpage via CTRL+F (command for Find in Firefox and Explorer browsers). For example, in my recent quoting of Ra's Orion dialog in the confederation thread. I found those by searching for 'Orion Crusaders' in the lawofone.info search engine, and then did a CTRL+F for the word "heel". Because I remembered Ra explaining that they did not wish to be put under Orion's heel in their offering of service to them.

(09-03-2009, 11:20 AM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]By the way....with respect to the insightfulness statement, I continue to remain extremely interested to learn how you are able to pull from the Ra quotes as quickly as you seem to

(09-03-2009, 11:40 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Q,
The process is about 50% intuition and 50% perspiration. I begin by contemplating the quote I seek. I have a fairly good - but far from photogenic - memory, so while in my contemplation mode, I explore words or phrases that relate closely to the topic. I have also developed a fairly good instinct as to which book the quote resides in. After a few moments of contemplation, I am struck with a list of words or phrases for which to search in an prioritized list of books. If I find that there are too many hits on a search, I move along to my next choice, but usually I can find the quote I seek in the 1-2 book and on the 1-5 hit of my first search.

That said, I sometimes let a search run on even though I'm not finding what I wanted, because I find that I am learning something I didn't expect. Doing these searches across all five books over time, has given me some very useful insights into how certain topics integrate across the works, thus building a more holistic view of the works.
Love and Light (but not so much as to sunburn there in Florida, Dear friend)

It helps quite nicely. Thank you. I'm sure I can handle the first process through left sided brain function. Might you consider sending me a pill to accommodate the second process more efficiently for right sided processes given? I'd like to order the pill in red if thats alright? Its better for chasing rabbit holes, and what not. I think I'll go out into the sun for a bit now while waiting for your shipment...unless I see a rabbit first, which I'll take as an omen and a sign

You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes-The Matrix Wrote:Morpheus: I imagine that right now you're feeling a bit like Alice. Tumbling down the rabbit hole?
Neo: You could say that.
Morpheus: I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he's expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: 'Cause I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind -- driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Neo: The Matrix?
Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?
(Neo nods his head.)
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
(In his left hand, Morpheus shows a blue pill.)
Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. (a red pill is shown in his other hand) You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. (Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill) Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.
(Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)

(09-03-2009, 11:51 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Another quick tip if you are using lawofone.info is to search for a word within a webpage via CTRL+F (command for Find in Firefox and Explorer browsers). For example, in my recent quoting of Ra's Orion dialog in the confederation thread. I found those by searching for 'Orion Crusaders' in the lawofone.info search engine, and then did a CTRL+F for the word "heel". Because I remembered Ra explaining that they did not wish to be put under Orion's heel in their offering of service to them.

Thank you as well dear Lazazza. I'll try both yours as well as 3D's suggestions, this while waiting for 3D's red pill as well.

Q

(09-03-2009, 03:12 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you as well dear Lazazza. I'll try both yours as well as 3D's suggestions, this while waiting for 3D's red pill as well.

Q

The pills are en route, but I should tell you that mine, just as Morpheus' pills (contrary to what his name suggests) are actually sugar. They are however, a special derivative of sugar that has been clinically proven to induce the placebo effect, though.

Enjoy them when you get them, and remember you only need to take one until the symptoms reappear.

3D Sunset

I was thinking that, considering our general flummoxed state regarding Oahspe, would it not be a good candidate question for Q'uo to shore up for us, when Carla returns to channeling later this year?

Has Q'uo in the past cleared confusion regarding answers given from Ra? Perhaps since Ra is a third of the Q'uo contact, they would take it as an honor/duty to do so?

(09-04-2009, 01:52 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking that, considering our general flummoxed state regarding Oahspe, would it not be a good candidate question for Q'uo to shore up for us, when Carla returns to channeling later this year?

What a brilliant suggestion! (Why didn't we think of that before? heh)

(09-04-2009, 01:52 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Has Q'uo in the past cleared confusion regarding answers given from Ra? Perhaps since Ra is a third of the Q'uo contact, they would take it as an honor/duty to do so?

Yes, Q'uo has definitely done that regarding other issues, particularly questions regarding 2012, the negative elite, religions, etc.

I will pass it on!

Quantum, I realize on a number of occasions that you have stated that the book comletely contradicts the LOO. I am wondering( because I havent read it ), does the book, Oahspe, at least send the reader wanting to be a good sto person? Does it, such as the bible, at least encourage the reader to be a good person i.e. dont steal, dont kill folks, and keep it in your pants around your neighbors wife? IF it does that much, I for one can believe it to be easily passable. Is that not something we need in such a negative world? A poorly written instruction booklet.

(09-04-2009, 02:20 PM)airwaves Wrote: [ -> ]Quantum, I realize on a number of occasions that you have stated that the book comletely contradicts the LOO. I am wondering( because I havent read it ), does the book, Oahspe, at least send the reader wanting to be a good sto person? Does it, such as the bible, at least encourage the reader to be a good person i.e. dont steal, dont kill folks, and keep it in your pants around your neighbors wife? IF it does that much, I for one can believe it to be easily passable. Is that not something we need in such a negative world? A poorly written instruction booklet.

Actually airwaves, in that context you might have just nailed it. I don't know. Yes, in answer to your marvelous question, it does in some manner at least do that.

So then, here comes the next question as a result of your wonderful insight which instigates further my delving: If we are only required a 51% STO to "pass" into graduation, is to the converse the same application of rule applied, that 51% or more of STO influence in a message protected enough by the Guardians who are responsible for quarantine such that "If It Is To Be, It's Up To Me" to sort it out, given we have to anyway, is enough to teach?

Maybe in a sense the filtering works both ways by laws in motion as a natural consequence, i.e. from "reception up", as in our growth "received" "towards" greater light though the murky cloudiness, to "transmission down", as in growth "offered" "from" light through the murky cloudiness as though seeing through a glass darkly?


Q

(09-04-2009, 03:57 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]So then, here comes the next question as a result of your wonderful insight which instigates further my delving: If we are only required a 51% STO to "pass" into graduation, is to the converse the same application of rule applied, that 51% or more of STO influence in a message protected enough by the Guardians who are responsible for quarantine such that "If It Is To Be, It's Up To Me" to sort it out, given we have to anyway, is enough to teach?

Hmm, this is indeed an interesting proposal. I'm inclined upon initial thinking that this is probably not the case. For the aspiring 3rd density entity, one could perhaps strive for 100% positive polarity and only actually attain 75%, but their intention is in the right place, and has been proven by the >50% number, and hence graduation is attained. If the entity had been trying for 100% and only gotten as far as 30%, then it would become obvious that the entity was not really trying very hard and is therefore insincere. I am adding a lot of my personal view points to my argument, but I feel it's the intention behind the polarity that counts here.

The graduation percentages seems to be very specific for the progression of an entity, and not really relevant to anything else. Suppose we were to apply it to a final exam in school. 51% correctness (or in the case of Oahspe, accuracy?) is a terrible score. Most schools start a FAIL at 70% and move up from there. And even then, in most schools you cannot pass the class unless you at least get a "C", and rightfully so.

My intuition tells me that a grand establishment such as a confederation of highly evolved and ancient entities, no less the council to such a confederation, would hold at least to those standards, if not hold even stricter requirements.

(09-04-2009, 03:57 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]If we are only required a 51% STO to "pass" into graduation, is to the converse the same application of rule applied, that 51% or more of STO influence in a message protected enough by the Guardians who are responsible for quarantine is enough to teach?

(09-04-2009, 05:08 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Hmm, this is indeed an interesting proposal. I'm inclined upon initial thinking that this is probably not the case. For the aspiring 3rd density entity, one could perhaps strive for 100% positive polarity and only actually attain 75%, but their intention is in the right place, and has been proven by the >50% number, and hence graduation is attained. If the entity had been trying for 100% and only gotten as far as 30%, then it would become obvious that the entity was not really trying very hard and is therefore insincere. I am adding a lot of my personal view points to my argument, but I feel it's the intention behind the polarity that counts here.

Hello Lavazza. Great to see you. Thank you for continuing this interesting thread. I condensed my question above to cut out the fat and perhaps clean up the assumption posed. I am wondering if your answer would change based on cleaner verbiage above on my part? To be more precise, and perhaps you did already answer, is 51% of STO information conveyed/taught, although attempted to be given/transmitted at 100% but received as a result of distortion at a mere 51% enough so as to allow it to "pass" or be acceptable as a teaching? If so, then as airwaves offers, if I may paraphrase with humor intended ((())) maybe she aint the prettiest gal in the room, but she's fine enough to dance with even if I never would marry her.

Distortion is an is. It is a 3D principle of law. It can be cleaned up, but alas the blot will always remain to a lessor or greater degree. It will always/must be in 3D for the egg gathering of lessons. As such all teachings, as much as any thing else, will be received through the distortion principle, this through our twisted ears if not our more twisted minds submerged up to and over our eyeballs in 3D. Thus, no teaching received will be at 100% even if transmitted at 100%. It may further even be that it very well is not even taught at 100%? If the premise is true, then the conclusion begs, at what level of a teaching "presented" or "received" is it acceptable, much less passed? Maybe 51% cuts both ways?

Q ... I mean Q....

sorry...just attempting to be safe in the event of any distortion.

Q

(09-04-2009, 03:57 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]If we are only required a 51% STO to "pass" into graduation, is to the converse the same application of rule applied, that 51% or more of STO influence in a message protected enough by the Guardians who are responsible for quarantine is enough to teach?

Well Ra did admit that the message was murkey and "burried within",. I also do not think that "those persentages" apply to anything else but graduation. My gut tells me that the message was originally clear and concise, but the channeler could not hold to high enough of a vibration throughout the channeling and distorted the message. More than likely the gaps are filled with his own beleifs. Channeling is very fickle indeed. That is why q'uo, at the begining of channelings, always says "take what resonates and leave the rest". Don't we just love distortion? :p

Q’uo Wrote:As always, before we begin we would enjoin you to use all discrimination as you listen to what we have to say, harvesting for your later thought those thoughts of ours which resonate with you and leaving the rest behind. If you will use your powers of discrimination and trust in them you shall not be led astray by slick words and by shallow thoughts but shall remain within your integrity and follow your own process. We greatly thank you for this consideration as it allows us to speak freely those thoughts which we would share with you at this time.

(09-05-2009, 12:59 PM)airwaves Wrote: [ -> ]Well Ra did admit that the message was murkey and "burried within",. I also do not think that "those persentages" apply to anything else but graduation. My gut tells me that the message was originally clear and concise, but the channeler could not hold to high enough of a vibration throughout the channeling and distorted the message. More than likely the gaps are filled with his own beleifs.

I agree!

(09-04-2009, 03:57 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]If we are only required a 51% STO to "pass" into graduation, is to the converse the same application of rule applied, that 51% or more of STO influence in a message protected enough by the Guardians who are responsible for quarantine is enough to teach?

airwaves Wrote:Well Ra did admit that the message was murkey and "burried within",. I also do not think that "those persentages" apply to anything else but graduation. My gut tells me that the message was originally clear and concise, but the channeler could not hold to high enough of a vibration throughout the channeling and distorted the message. More than likely the gaps are filled with his own beleifs. Channeling is very fickle indeed. That is why q'uo, at the begining of channelings, always says "take what resonates and leave the rest". Don't we just love distortion? :p

Hello airwaves. Trusting everyone had as enjoyable of a Labor Day weekend. Speculating, pondering, challenging, discussing, intellectualizing, and abstracting are always delightful as regards the LOO, particularly as the LOO almost demands it, this by indeed requiring just these faculties cited above. What I've found so delightful about the Ra Material, as opposed to most scriptural messages for example, irrespective of what religion, is that the Ra Material demands one's participation by "engaging it" by speaking "with you", these through exactly the above named qualities, as opposed to simply "speaking at you" as religion does. Although one may live the LOO without the Ra Material, I thinks it's extremely safe to suggest that without the above named faculties that one may not come even close to comprehending the Ra message specifically. The Ra Material therefore may not be able to speak to all as such, and as such therefore may not even be intended to. It is simply another viable path for some, notwithstanding that it is not the only viable path for all. In this context the Law of One is not the Ra Message any more than is The Ra Message the Law of One, or any more than is Catholicism for e.g. the Law of One, yet while all viable paths, inclusive of all great religions may contain the Law of One. Note that I am finding similarity in the preceding sentence as opposed to any dissimilarity, given that dissimilarity is more than clearly self evident.

With this in mind, lets play a bit more with the thought process: All is light. All is Love. We are light. We are love. It is stated by the Ra message that by the 51% principle for graduation that we need be minimally at 51% LOVE/LIGHT (L/L) in order to ascend, i.e. Graduate. By this principle we might infer that we need be at 51% L/L from 2D to meet 3D, or from 3D to meet/balance/accept/receive the next higher order of light at 4D than we presently reside at, less it be "too much" to receive/be in balance with/tolerate, thus disallowing us to move forward as a protection, as much as anything else. Said in other words, it seems that in order for Love/Light to cause to move/ascend transcendentally, it must be received at least at 51% in kind in order for the said recipient thereof to act on same. His filters may be on at 49%, but off enough at 51% enough so as to receive at 51%. Thus the said reception of the L/L principle is minimally required at 51% to indeed cause to move equally at the 51% mark and thus transcend minimally at 51%.

To the converse, although L/L may be received at 49%, or less, and that it may indeed move nonetheless, it does not have the inherent quality enough so as to transcend or penetrate from this density 3D to 4D or to another. It may well be that all densities require only 51%, or it may be that the next density requires more than 51%, say at 55% for example to penetrate from 4D to 5D, and the next from 5D to 6D at 60% for example, or any derivation larger or even smaller than 51%, and so on ad infinitum. Who knows. But what may be stated with certainty nevertheless, as has been instructed, is that this density of 3D requires 51% to move to 4D.

If 51% is required for us to penetrate/transcend, then may it not stand to reason that our ability to absorb at 51% is the Hallmark for transcendence? We then come to the question of what it is that comprises this/these qualities that allows for the absorption for this movement for transcendence being nominally at 51%. The ability to Love is certainly enough. However, the ability to absorb is perhaps facilitated by the ability to abstract as given by Ra. In other words, the ability to contemplate, deeper, shall we say.

Now, given the distortion principle of the "shiteness" all about us that is/ that must be in 3D, this for catalyst, to cause growth to cause movement etc which creates the opportunity to strive towards love vs hate, forgiveness vs spite, understanding vs strife, such that such STO indeed penetrates this "shite", then perhaps the transmission of any message offered through the distortion principle is exactly as you stated too oft so distorted (received) that it indeed falls beneath the 51% principle in order to not only effectively cause to move, but equally ineffective even if received at 100% of a distorted 49% transmission. But, what if it indeed did penetrate at only 51%?

I am speculating that it is the principle of light/love vs love/light that may cause penetration from either below to above or from above to below, and that this 51% principle is not subjugated simply to graduation, albeit that it allows for graduation. 51% or more of light/love - love/light may simply allow penetration, and thus movement, whether it be the "transmitted message" through distortion, or the "movement of the mind/body/spirit complex" from the message as the motivator/activator, or any said light received by any method, whether experientially or academically, so as to apply this 51% MOVEMENT/PENETRATION in this life in 3D to allow learning/teaching or graduation, all as culmination to ascesnsion. It may be a principle of law to any given energy whether it be applied to a living room plant, an animal, a teaching, a law, or graduation.

If 51% received/absorbed causes to move-transcend , then what is the principle? The principle understood seems to be Love/Light - Light/Love. I am suggesting as speculation that this may be the factor in 3D that causes L/L to move/penetrate irrespective of graduation or teach/learning vs learn/teaching. This may be seen even by the physical example of the "above so below" principle of the weak battery in a flashlight which simply does not have enough power to penetrate the darkness thus creating the inability to move/transcend/penetrate the said murkiness/darkness. In this case, better said, "we are the said light". We can not move without penetrating the dark. But by the same example it may suggest that it moves both ways, i.e. from the "top down" as well as from the "bottom up". Simply stated, light penetrates minimally at a 51% principle whether from "above to below" by "transmission" vs from strictly "below to above" by "reception". 51% from below to above penetration causes penetration enough so as to effectuate graduation. So too might a doctrine of truth at only 51% or > love/light contained in it, as in a truth or teaching emanating even from only 4D, or 5D, so as to effectuate same were any said recipient so inclined enough to act on it, even if at a less than stellar truth, or more than stellar such as one from mid 6D?

Q

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]All is light. All is Love. We are light. We are love. It is stated by the Ra message that by the 51% principle for graduation that we need be minimally at 51% LOVE/LIGHT (L/L) in order to ascend, i.e. Graduate. By this principle we might infer that we need be at 51% L/L from 2D to meet 3D, or from 3D to meet/balance/accept/receive the next higher order of light at 4D Who knows. But what may be stated with certainty nevertheless, as has been instructed, is that this density of 3D requires 51% to move to 4D.

I don't think that can be inferred. As you state later in this post, Who knows? Ra did not specify. What we do know is that the criteria for graduating from 2D to 3D is sentience, ie. awareness of self as an individual. In 2D there is no polarity; thus, the percentages might have zero meaning/applicability in that density.

Likewise, even though there is polarity in 4D, it is the density of Love, with graduation being a movement from the density of Love to the density of Wisdom. In contrast to 3D, which is Choice, those higher densities might not utilize polarity in the same was as is done in 3D. Hence, again, the percentages might not be applicable.

Again, Who knows? Although an interesting topic of speculation, I don't think we can presume to infer any such applicability across the densities. Just as the rules of gravity are different under water as on land, the criteria for graduation might be vastly different in the different densities. I don't recall Ra ever addressing percentages in other densities, specifically. If someone can find such a reference, please do let us know!

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]If 51% is required for us to penetrate/transcend, then may it not stand to reason that our ability to absorb at 51% is the Hallmark for transcendence? We then come to the question of what it is that comprises this/these qualities that allows for the absorption for this movement for transcendence being nominally at 51%. The ability to Love is certainly enough. However, the ability to absorb is perhaps facilitated by the ability to abstract as given by Ra. In other words, the ability to contemplate, deeper, shall we say.

I would hope not, for that would mean that those with lesser intelligence would be at a disadvantage. I know plenty of people with acute intellects but no love, and others with warm, open hearts but only a weak intellect. And still others who cannot abstract, but can grasp concepts such as love/kindness/generosity and, more importantly, apply those concepts. My understanding of the Law of One is that the application is far more important than the comprehension.

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]It may be a principle of law to any given energy whether it be applied to a living room plant, an animal, a teaching, a law, or graduation.

Interesting idea. It doesn't resonate with me, because of the Choice being an issue of polarity, and the percentage being an issue of polarity, and the fact that other densities are not necessarily concerned with polarity as criteria. But, who knows?

The rest of your post offers some interesting speculation. I don't really have comments on that.

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]All is light. All is Love. We are light. We are love. It is stated by the Ra message that by the 51% principle for graduation that we need be minimally at 51% LOVE/LIGHT (L/L) in order to ascend, i.e. Graduate. By this principle we might infer that we need be at 51% L/L from 2D to meet 3D, or from 3D to meet/balance/accept/receive the next higher order of light at 4D Who knows. But what may be stated with certainty nevertheless, as has been instructed, is that this density of 3D requires 51% to move to 4D.

(09-08-2009, 06:00 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that can be inferred. As you state later in this post, Who knows? Ra did not specify. What we do know is that the criteria for graduating from 2D to 3D is sentience, ie. awareness of self as an individual. In 2D there is no polarity; thus, the percentages might have zero meaning/applicability in that density.

I agree. I in fact as much as said this? It might be interesting nonetheless as a question only, even without an answer or direct quote from Ra. This is the nature of growth. One may not assume simply that because Ra did not state a speculative principle, yet based nonetheless on the teachings, that the speculation is not interesting or not possible as a said speculation.

(09-08-2009, 06:00 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Likewise, even though there is polarity in 4D, it is the density of Love, with graduation being a movement from the density of Love to the density of Wisdom. In contrast to 3D, which is Choice, those higher densities might not utilize polarity in the same was as is done in 3D. Hence, again, the percentages might not be applicable.

I as much as said this as well?

(09-08-2009, 06:00 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Again, Who knows? Although an interesting topic of speculation, I don't think we can presume to infer any such applicability across the densities. Just as the rules of gravity are different under water as on land, the criteria for graduation might be vastly different in the different densities. I don't recall Ra ever addressing percentages in other densities, specifically. If someone can find such a reference, please do let us know!

"There are no presumptions made?" To presume is to undertake with unwarrantable boldness, or to act or do something without right or permission. "These are speculations only, as an exercise only", and clearly stated as such. Without engaging in speculation, I dare say there is little chance of attempting to understand the Material or it's principles more fully. Ra never ever, never addressed this fact, nor is it offered as such, much less intended as such. No need to search for a reference? Its not there. Heck, we'll never know if the Ra passages are in fact fact. To this point Monica, I feel it important to suggest that we as a group may grow greatly through "speculation, contemplation, wonderment", as it were, by "asking, seeking, questioning" vs presuming, this as opposed to strictly "stricturing" (as Ra would say - i.e. "release this from its stricture") oneself or the Material strictly to it's four corners only. If ever an attempt were made to speculate on any topic without a Ra quote, then one could not speculate. One would by necessity then singularly hold oneself only to the Ra quotes, this without the beauty of seeking where else the applications of law or theory may apply. This would be a detriment to the Material. Simply contemplating, asking, remaining in wonderment, speculation, and seeking alone has a polarizing effect so as to allow one's soul and mind to soar within the mystery of the infinite

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]If 51% is required for us to penetrate/transcend, then may it not stand to reason that our ability to absorb at 51% is the Hallmark for transcendence? We then come to the question of what it is that comprises this/these qualities that allows for the absorption for this movement for transcendence being nominally at 51%. The ability to Love is certainly enough. However, the ability to absorb is perhaps facilitated by the ability to abstract as given by Ra. In other words, the ability to contemplate, deeper, shall we say.

(09-08-2009, 06:00 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I would hope not, for that would mean that those with lesser intelligence would be at a disadvantage. I know plenty of people with acute intellects but no love, and others with warm, open hearts but only a weak intellect. And still others who cannot abstract, but can grasp concepts such as love/kindness/generosity and, more importantly, apply those concepts. My understanding of the Law of One is that the application is far more important than the comprehension.

Again, I said this? Look above wherein I state LOVE is enough. I am suggesting that love coupled also with the principle of contemplation allows polarization more acutely, this as specified in a Ra quote as seen and discussed in the "Rapid Polarization vis-a-vis Abstraction" thread on "Life on Planet Earth." Love is plenty enough. There may however be "far more to work with" as Ra stated, coupled with love.

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]It may be a principle of law to any given energy whether it be applied to a living room plant, an animal, a teaching, a law, or graduation.

(09-08-2009, 06:00 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting idea. It doesn't resonate with me, because of the Choice being an issue of polarity, and the percentage being an issue of polarity, and the fact that other densities are not necessarily concerned with polarity as criteria. But, who knows?

Truth be told, we know very little. The entire Forum is one devoted to seeking. How does one know if even the Ra Material is truth? We don't. All we may rely on is our faith, our ability to contemplate, and our love to guide us. Suggesting we don't know as an already established understanding serves only to stifle the imagination of to what else the principles the LOO Material may also apply other than to singularly that which has been given. "I really don't know" is an already well established fact by virtue of the further fact that I am seeking as opposed to having found everything I seek. My point is that I am happy to speculate without the need to state "we don't know", given that we really never will. It is one thing to speculate or contemplate to that which is contrary to the Ra Material, not because it is wrong to do so, but perhaps more so only because it would be counter-productive to this wonderful forum. But it is an altogether different proposition to simply speculate on the Ra Material as may in fact apply to other arenas. Yes I may be wrong. Yes I may be right. No its not in the Ra quotes. Yes it may be inferred. No it may not. Infer nonetheless, just for the exercise and wonderment, if not simply for the sheer joy of the "unknown maybe". Who knows needn't be offered with each new "maybe". We know we don't know. The "maybe" may be sufficient unto itself as a means of stimulating another maybe, all for the purpose in the attempt to penetrate another truth which will never be proved.

"Simply contemplating, asking, remaining in wonderment, speculation, and seeking alone has a polarizing effect so as to allow one's soul and mind to soar within the mystery of the infinite". (circa 2009 - "Q")

L/L

Q

(09-08-2009, 07:26 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I said this? Look above wherein I state LOVE is enough. I am suggesting that love coupled also with the principle of contemplation allows polarization more acutely, this as specified in a Ra quote as seen and discussed in the "Rapid Polarization vis-a-vis Abstraction" thread on "Life on Planet Earth." Love is plenty enough. There may however be "far more to work with" as Ra stated, coupled with love.

Yes, you did indeed say love is enough. But then proceed to offer that maybe something could be added to it, by the terms love coupled also with. (If I'm misunderstanding you, please let me know!)
At the risk of splitting hairs, I think the difference between what I understand you to be saying and what I'm saying is this: I don't think anything can be added to love, for love is all there is. I don't think anything can be added to the final value of how much love/light is being absorbed/radiated, as demonstrated by the walking of the Steps of Light. I would agree that intellectual understanding is of value, certainly, but only in its assistance to radiate more love. I don't think it adds anything to the equation on its own, at least not for purposes of graduation to 4D. Some of us might be working on the lessons of other densities, simultaneously with our 3D lessons, like wisdom and communication. So, for those purposes, surely intellectual understanding has value. And surely intellectual understanding has value, even for 3D lessons. I just don't think it has value in the sense of being extra credit points for graduation, so to speak.

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(09-08-2009, 07:26 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]Suggesting we don't know as an already established understanding serves only to stifle the imagination of to what else the principles the LOO Material may also apply other than to singularly that which has been given.

OK...Well, I was just quoting you, when you said Who knows?

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]It may well be that all densities require only 51%, or it may be that the next density requires more than 51%, say at 55% for example to penetrate from 4D to 5D, and the next from 5D to 6D at 60% for example, or any derivation larger or even smaller than 51%, and so on ad infinitum. Who knows.

I thought it sounded good so I used it too!

(09-08-2009, 07:26 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]Infer nonetheless, just for the exercise and wonderment, if not simply for the sheer joy of the "unknown maybe". Who knows needn't be offered with each new "maybe". We know we don't know.

I understand your point and don't want to diminish in any way your sense of wonderment. Personally, I find that I get so much exercise already, just dealing with everyday catalyst, that I keep plenty busy. I feel like I'm on a rollercoaster, climbing to the top, about to have the ride of my life. We're so close to 2012, and even if nothing happens in terms of anything dramatic, I still feel such a sense of urgency about mundane tasks like dealing with catalyst and seeking guidance on how I might do my little teeny part to help our cosmic friends increase the Harvest. I guess I feel so busy with 3D-4D that matters of graduation to the other densities aren't as relevant to me. That's not to say they aren't interesting! Nor do I intend to sound flippant, so I apologize if I did. I just feel that there is already so much richness to be explored just in learning how to apply the Law of One to our everyday lives. That's what intrigues me the most. But I honor and respect your interest in exploring these concepts. I'm just explaining why I might not see it in quite the same light.

(09-08-2009, 02:47 PM)Quantum Wrote: [ -> ]...Said in other words, it seems that in order for Love/Light to cause to move/ascend transcendentally, it must be received at least at 51% in kind in order for the said recipient thereof to act on same. His filters may be on at 49%, but off enough at 51% enough so as to receive at 51%. Thus the said reception of the L/L principle is minimally required at 51% to indeed cause to move equally at the 51% mark and thus transcend minimally at 51%.
...as it has been instructed, is that this density of 3D requires 51% to move to 4D.

If 51% is required for us to penetrate/transcend, then may it not stand to reason that our ability to absorb at 51% is the Hallmark for transcendence?
...
If 51% received/absorbed causes to move-transcend , then what is the principle? The principle understood seems to be Love/Light - Light/Love. I am suggesting as speculation that this may be the factor in 3D that causes L/L to move/penetrate irrespective of graduation or teach/learning vs learn/teaching.
Q

Greetings Quantum and thank you for your views, quite intellectual approach indeed! I got only a few excerpts out. Since you mention the 51% and graduation topics, I thought of sharing this below with you.

I understand differently the 51% STO path. For me the 51% are rather on the giving end than on the receiving end.
It is real simple the way I 'see' this: It comes to 51% giving versus 49% taking, basically!

In other words, i see it as 51% radiance versus 49% devouration.

''Radiance and devoration of what?'' one may ask. Well, radiance and devoration of energy, of course.
Light/Love is energy. Light/Love being the building block of Creation, so to say.

We take some, we give some.
And, in order to be creator, obviously, one needs to give a bit more that one takes!

However the term 'give' could sometimes be replaced by the term 'create'. And, in some upper density, the term 'devoration' could be replaced by the term 'magnetism' as for a black hole ultimately.

The magnetism of a black hole is opposed to the radiance of a sun, in term of negative/positive path, though ultimately, the creation is an on-going process where both path exist in alternate dominance and, at some point, in balance - as a battery with two equal poles -.

While suns give life in radiating their light and magnetism and, create life within a system with other participating planets -typically sto-; a black hole will attract and devour life which has been created by suns.

This energy transfer (giving/taking) at the human level, operates through our chakra system.

If you think about it, a chakra system is not very different from a solar system; the difference being that each of them occurs in different octaves. I believe that Ra calls each octave a logos.

In a person, chakras manage transfers of energy; Each chakra having its field of expertise, so to say.

When we take food in, we take energy forcefully from another life in order to sustain ours, whether the life we take the energy from be an animal, a vegetal or even a mineral. Though we give back some of this as food for smaller life forms, the previous life of plants and animals do not exist as such any longer; they have been 'recycled' :-/
However, we also drink water (which does not take energy from any other form of life) and breath air and light (again, this does not take energy from any life by force).

So, there is a transfer of energy in eating food. And you can guess that it is not based on 'radiance'!

In sexuality, there is again a transfer of energy of another kind.

In our interaction with society, there is another sort of energy transfer.

In friendship and family and through emotional bonds, one finds again a different kind of energy transfer,

etc. up to the upper chakras.
I am sure that somewhere Ra mentions the kind of energy we transfer through each of our chakra.

When we reach 51% in giving and creating in the average activities of our chakras reunited, we are on an STO path.
And these 51% can slightly differ from a moment to another according to our daily activities.

I would not say that these 51% are matching our level of consciousness in the sense that it is virtually impossible to be more that 52% STO while surviving in 3D as human beings, since our metabolism itself is mainly an STS activity and so is our immune system.
Therefore I consider the 51% requested for graduation to be related to energy transfer exclusively.

About the right info from channeling, i would tend to see it as relative to the cultural background and general understanding of the channeler. Also, channeled messages get distorted when they have to take the vehicle of words in order to reach our minds down here, taking into account our personal, cultural, societal and linguistic distortions.

... Just food for thought!

Today is 9/9/9/ !!! Enjoy !

L/L
Whitefeather